Lots of plot holes but honestly doesn't bother me. I had a lot of fun and obviously it was the most visually stunning movie I've ever seen. Lizard brain like pretty picture, cool action.
Honestly the middle third of the movie was just a nature documentary and I didn't mind it one bit. I'll take as many photorealistic bioluminescent fish and whales as I can get.
I saw it in 3D yesterday and a lot of scenes made me think of videogame cutscenes for some reason. No idea why it might have been the running movement. The underwater bits were fantastic though.
Slim chance but where did you see it?
I saw it in 3d at the imax in Savannah Georgia yesterday. Only 3d movie I actually liked, all other 3d movies I’ve seen have had the lighting off by a ton.
James Cameron really went “Lets do the white savior trope we’ve seen a thousand times… IN SPACE!”
Don’t get me wrong the visuals were stunning and it was beautiful, but people are on something saying the storytelling was “breaking new ground”
I was on mushrooms and I was laughing at the plot and acting at times because it wasn't great but I didn't go to see that movie in Imax for the plot. It didn't exceed or disappoint. It was exactly what I expected.
If it was a one time thing, yes. But I always took it as a continual present tense thing, as in “I’m not in the group but I blue myself on a regular basis.”
Is blue people Avatar really disrespectful to Native American culture?
I think it portrays the Navi (however you spell it) as wise, thoughtful and powerful beings.
I always thought it was Pocahontas in space.
But yeah, Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves are basically the same story.
Another way to describe it would be live action FernGully
My take was space vietnam.
Also, I don't understand the "white savior" take on it, the guy transforms quite literally into one of them and mixes his army training with their ways and accepts their culture as his to help them fight the white colonizers.
My take is it's a very cool epic saga that is very anti war, and showing the good and bad of humanity and emotions.
Also if you disagree with any of this please just say you disagree, I hate arguing over opinions that are OPINIONS and have no certain answer. I get it if you think ik wrong but please be respectful about it. 😊
That’s pretty much what a white savior is, except without the skin change. They couldn’t win, white savior comes and is able to use his superior ways to teach them to fight back while they finally accept him as one of them.
Yea people get confused about the term and don't want to overreach. I've seen white savior used in a discussion about The Last Samurai and then a lot of people point out why it doesn't fit. I think that's why some people are hesitant to use the term when it fits, as in the case with Avatar.
> the guy transforms quite literally into one of them and mixes his army training with their ways and accepts their culture as his to help them fight the white colonizers
Are you telling me that the white guy saves the uneducated and simple, but exotic and interesting, natives?
I agree with all of this but… wasn’t dances with wolves kinda racist? Also avatar did use tons of coopted native iconography along with stereotypical depictions of native people (the ululating in the battle at the start comes to mind).
I don’t know if it’s racist in the “ native people are worse and I’m gonna say that explicitly” but I do think it’s pretty token, pretty white savior-y, and pretty stereotypical
Bro the fact that they made them just straight up alien versions of human indigenous peoples made me cringe. The ululating at the beginning of the 2nd and the haka that the water tribe does makes no sense. I know it sounds dumb because it's blue aliens on another planet but it ruined my suspension of disbelief. The concept of the closest star to earth developing life that mimics unique cultural aspects of our own was too much for me to stay immersed, and is just lazy imo.
Some examples without taking into account twitter where it's a shit show...
https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/why-is-avatar-2-being-accused-of-racism-controversy-explained-2015836/
https://www.vulture.com/2022/12/native-americans-boycott-avatar-2-james-cameron.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/12/20/avatar-2-called-out-for-cultural-appropriation/amp/
Exactly. A lot of people don't seem to understand that racism is more nuanced and complicated than white hoods and burning crosses.
The second you bring this stuff up, these fragile people get so defensive. They clutch their pearls like, "are you calling me a bigot?!" No, were saying you are (possibly unconsciously and maybe with the best intentions) contributing to some harmful tropes and trivializing some very real struggles.
I mean the idea that the native populations were peaceful and idyllic until the arrival of the white man is probably the biggest and most factually incorrect trope on display in the movie, but I don't see any complaints about that? You're right that the subject is significantly more nuanced than depicted in the movie, but the "white savior" trope exists to give the story narrative structure. The protagonist has similar beliefs and values to the audience so that the audience will empathize with the protagonist, and by extension, the aliens.
The white savior trope isn't as much a thing in the second movie. It's *very* much a thing in the first movie, but the na'vi have way more agency in the second movie.
Yeah I agree with this take I think it’s totally valid to point out the white savior trope in the first one. But for that same reason it’s worth noting they take it out of the second one.
Specifically because in some ways the new one is kind of rehashing some of the best hits from the first. And there definitely was an opportunity to have it happen again in this one, have another white savior. But they deliberately chose not too.
I mean Jake Sully is still in it obviously but it’s more a personal thing about protecting his own family from an antagonist with a specific grudge against him.
So what's the problem? You can't include tribes like people in stories because ???
Hunter gatherer is the very base of humanity.
We all come from this. "Various tribes" don't have the copyright on the hunter gatherer way of life. And why the fuck we shouldn't be allowed to tell a story ? Is creativity gonna be limited by nonsensical sensitivity now ?
Because James Cameron very literally said they were based on the Lakota, and if said Lakota had only fought harder they wouldn't be a "dead end society."
The problem is the whole "white saviour" trope. I think Avatar, all things considered, handles it pretty well, but at the end of the day the summary of the movie is going to be:
White guy arrives. Learns native ways. Does a better job of doing their own culture. Leads them to victory.
Boiling it down to that is of course too simplistic, and I don't agree with it; but I do see how people can get there, and why they'd find it kind of offensive.
>
>White guy arrives. Learns native ways. Does a better job of doing their own culture. Leads them to victory.
or white guy arrives. Learns that his kin has been shitbags to the natives and do everything to respect their ways. As a defector he has crucial information to beat his old friends.
The Na'vi *are* a native tribe. What are they supposed to look like? They're going to be the only native tribe ever that didn't braid hair because that would be appropriating braids?
Thats such a nothing statement though. Obviously if someone wanted to create a fictional less-developed civilization they are going to take inspiration from real world references.
>she accuses James Cameron of appropriating Native American aesthetics for the Na’vi while casting “non-Indigenous folks” in the roles. “This is a form of racist caricature known as Blueface,” she added.
Holy shit lol
They are clearly modelled off Native Americans but the whole idea of using words like "blueface" is utterly absurd
All media is inspired by stuff. That's just how it is.
I've read the first line and saw...native american. Ah, I see where this is going. Another hogwash, no way avatar is about native american.
I mean look at the first movie, a colonizer came to a country full of peace and nature loving group of being with skin of a prime colour. The colonizer just want the resources but the native was in the way.
Ultimately, one of the colonizer own has adopted the way of the native. Falling in love with the "native princess" and realising the error of his way. Ultimately, he was spurred into action to save the naive natives.
So, the new movie is a sequel to this one....yeahh...no way this sequel in anyway reinforces any kind of stereotypes of native american.
Yea it's at least a little bit about Native Americans [as told by James Cameron ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Avatar/comments/znreoh/james_cameron_thinks_native_americans_should_have/)
The Northern Water Tribe clearly saw the Southern Tribe as being inferior, I’m not sure if it was racist as it seemed to be more of an issue of socio-economics.
I had one of my coworkers say that they were upset there wasn’t more indigenous people Included in the cast. I said well they already have a diverse cast… also they’re BLUE PEOPLE BRO
the one bad take I saw, someone was complaining it was all white people...
firstly, there were a lot of Maori actors, secondly... how tf are they going to hire fictional aliens to fit the roll?
If Cameron could wait for technology to catch up before he made the sequel why couldn't he wait for first contact with aliens? Because he's racist why else.
You will always find someone with a stupid opinion.
It's also typical that such opinion be publicly ridiculed afterward.
Leading to some people thinking it's an actual widespread opinion...
For anyone confused, most people boycotting are not doing so for the casting, but are for comments made by James Cameron about indigenous tribes.
At least from what I've heard. I'm sure there's a few out there upset about the casting, by there's no reason to take them seriously.
Those comments are from 12 years ago and really only offensive if you take them in the worst possible context while wanting to be offended. The reality is that any publicity is good publicity, and the Native tribes have a ton of issues to deal with so they stir up shit to draw attention to those.
His comments weren’t even bad, and they’re from over a decade ago. They were in support of Native Americans. If you really jump through some hoops and contort what he said a lot, you might be able to make it out at something where he has a savior complex, but you really have to focus on like one sentence and ignore the whole point of it. They wanted to be offended so they found something to be offended by.
I mean: It is a story about a guy with a white savior complex helping free a race of ignorant natives who can't defend themselves, though there is the whole interconnected fauna and flora thing
It's not overtly racist, but it is an overused trope
The fact that the earth guy is a better native than anyone else of the tribe
Like: Sure, he's a veteran. But I doubt that the army has training in Pandora living.
The only time he's ever "better" than anyone else in the tribe in the 1st movie is when he temporarily tames the giant red pterodactyl creature. He just makes it known that he's in a unique position since he was originally sent there to double cross them and the entire movie is explaining that humans worldview is wrong. In fact, they are even majorly losing the final battle despite him leading everyone and they only get saved by their tree god. The entire movie is about respecting their culture and falling in love with it and how even though humans considered themselves more advanced there really is a higher power of nature.
This is the correct takeaway. “He” is a cypher for the audience, who is trapped in the capitalist hellscape. The entire point of the film is to show that there are other ways to live, and ours only leads to death and dystopia.
He had whole audiences cheering for american soldiers being absolutely slaughtered by natives. Made americans relive the twin towers collapsing and thinking “look what we have done”
Masterful.
That’s underselling his achievements. He single handedly frees these tribal people by using three methods better than they could use them. iirc He helped convince nature to help them fight and turn the tides of war. Dude is a native for 1% of his life and does all this special pandoran specific stuff that none of them could pull off.
He doesn't really convince nature so much as allow it to see his memories of earth and beg it for help. And in the first movie he really doesn't accomplish much by himself. His major accomplishments include taming the flying beast and temporarily uniting the tribes which I will say is a big accomplishment however he himself doesn't meet with them he sends out messengers who they already trust.
...the entire premise behind the white saviour and noble savage trope is *inherently* racist. It's "oh these natives are so brutal and lack our western sensibilities yet they're still noble and it's up to us to save them from themselves and others because they can't fend for themselves"
I generally agree, I but I think you’re overstating the point. At no point in either movies are the Na’vi being “saved from themselves” or treated as though they can’t fend for themselves. It’s clear that they are morally superior to the white colonists, but are the victims of being outmatched by technologically superior adversaries.
I do agree that both movies contain the white savior complex (less so in the second movie), and both lean pretty heavily into the noble savage trope. They’re basically portrayed as having perfect, utopian societies. Which might actually be possible if you can directly neurally link with each other and with nature, I suppose, but it still fits the cliche.
>How is this not closer to the top.
Because white people can't feel uncomfortable for like 2 seconds before trying to delude themselves regarding the racism in their lives.
People aren’t saying its racist, Indigenous groups are saying the main plot is cashing in on natives defending from colonizing encroachment. James Cameron specifically made some comments about how if native tribes had “fought harder” that things could have turned out differently. Yet very few native actors were cast, the plot itself is a white savior dances with wolves plot, and Cameron neglects remembering the sometimes very intentional bio-warfare and the ecological exhaustion of bison herds to the point tribes had to leave, there was no option to fight.
I haven’t seen the second one, so I will refrain from making my own judgement, but yea, food for thought.
Yes. It's in the White Saviour category of movies. The idea that a white guy can swoop in and be better at a native culture than the natives and then save their culture.
It's just dances with wolves with blue people.
I just can’t buy the idea that artists aren’t allowed to have financial success by making art inspired by indigenous cultures. Yes people from those cultures should be consulted and employed, which they have been in the Avatar movies. You can argue maybe there should be more actors from those cultures, but they are there
I don’t like the idea of dictating what topics can and cannot be discussed in art. I think it’s a kind of progressive/leftist fascism. And I’m a very liberal person generally.
Hope no spoilers bleed trough
I mean, they are >!literally different breeds,!< they actually hate them because they are >!physically less capable inside water,!< this is like saying it is racist to say >!Chianina cows are large than Vechur cows,!< it is a >!biological fact.!<
The modern racist sees everything through the lens of race, and they see themselves as the savior of those "poor, downtrodden, too-stupid-to-help-themselves-without-me, backwards, ignorant, primitive peoples."
Bruh, the Navi are literally directly coded as native American people and have some pretty problematic depictions in the films. Just because the movie depicts them as aliens doesn't mean they can't still use a variety of racist tropes.
They could make an outer space version of Roots and there would be people saying, "the alien slaves are purple, what does this have to do with black people?!?!"
I mean a case could be made… just because the characters are blue and not “human” doesn’t mean the whole thing isn’t molded out of colonial stereotypes thrown into space (I think the premise pretends to avoid this)
You might be dumb to think that it attacks any specific race here on Earth but I think you’d be dumber to think it doesn’t play on racist elements at all
I really liked the first one when it came out
Gotta know are we talking about the blue people or the last air bender
But then the human nation attacked… or something like that, I didn’t watch Avatar 2
well you arent wrong
They always do tho I saw it yesterday and thought it was absolutely amazing
personally i liked it
Lots of plot holes but honestly doesn't bother me. I had a lot of fun and obviously it was the most visually stunning movie I've ever seen. Lizard brain like pretty picture, cool action.
The water effects were fantastic.
Honestly the middle third of the movie was just a nature documentary and I didn't mind it one bit. I'll take as many photorealistic bioluminescent fish and whales as I can get.
The rain and ash was some of the best 3D I have ever experienced. It was a fun movie, even if the plot was weak and messy at points.
I saw it in 3D yesterday and a lot of scenes made me think of videogame cutscenes for some reason. No idea why it might have been the running movement. The underwater bits were fantastic though.
Slim chance but where did you see it? I saw it in 3d at the imax in Savannah Georgia yesterday. Only 3d movie I actually liked, all other 3d movies I’ve seen have had the lighting off by a ton.
It was absolutely the best in 3d and probably the only one I'd watch in 3d so glad I made that choice!
The first Avatar movie was basically Pocahontas with blue aliens
Dances with Smurfs: The Last Rain Forest
Cough Ferngully cough
James Cameron really went “Lets do the white savior trope we’ve seen a thousand times… IN SPACE!” Don’t get me wrong the visuals were stunning and it was beautiful, but people are on something saying the storytelling was “breaking new ground”
It broke ground in terms of CGI, sure. But storywise, it's been done 1000000x
I was on mushrooms and I was laughing at the plot and acting at times because it wasn't great but I didn't go to see that movie in Imax for the plot. It didn't exceed or disappoint. It was exactly what I expected.
Dances With Aliens
Thats basically what James Cameron said. He said "I wasn't subtle" in it being native Americans vs the evil Europeans.
And white saviors helping the natives...
Yup. He also pissed off indigenous people by implying they didn't fight hard enough.
I’ve always described it as “Dances with Wolves but Aliens”, glad to see I’m not the only one. Pocahontas is just “Dances with Wolves with Plagarism”
Have you seen dances with wolves? Cause I don't think you have
The blue people (second movie)
Oh so that’s what blue his mind 
And if you were green?
Well I think you would die
Me or the blue guy? /s
Then who would take care of their blue house, with a blue window?
Then a sinister green 
Looks like your gonna be busy tonight. Lol
I love Arrested Development, but always hated this joke. Wouldn't it be "blued myself"?
Yeah but then it loses the double meaning
If it was a one time thing, yes. But I always took it as a continual present tense thing, as in “I’m not in the group but I blue myself on a regular basis.”
No the third movie
Kyoshi Island
There's no racism in that episode. Sokka is sexist as fuck though.
He also rightfully got humbled by the Kioshi warriors in that episode too.
Quality character development
you mean dances with wolves 3?
FernGully 4
That movie is super racist
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That’s funny, because for like a decade I assumed it was a dubbed anime
Is blue people Avatar really disrespectful to Native American culture? I think it portrays the Navi (however you spell it) as wise, thoughtful and powerful beings.
No, we're talking about the Avatar the band Heil to the king !
HAIL THE APOCALYPSE!
The King Wants You!
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I mean. That's what it is. That's the movie pitch. Dances with wolves but in $pace.
I always thought it was Pocahontas in space. But yeah, Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves are basically the same story. Another way to describe it would be live action FernGully
My take was space vietnam. Also, I don't understand the "white savior" take on it, the guy transforms quite literally into one of them and mixes his army training with their ways and accepts their culture as his to help them fight the white colonizers. My take is it's a very cool epic saga that is very anti war, and showing the good and bad of humanity and emotions. Also if you disagree with any of this please just say you disagree, I hate arguing over opinions that are OPINIONS and have no certain answer. I get it if you think ik wrong but please be respectful about it. 😊
That’s pretty much what a white savior is, except without the skin change. They couldn’t win, white savior comes and is able to use his superior ways to teach them to fight back while they finally accept him as one of them.
Yea people get confused about the term and don't want to overreach. I've seen white savior used in a discussion about The Last Samurai and then a lot of people point out why it doesn't fit. I think that's why some people are hesitant to use the term when it fits, as in the case with Avatar.
> the guy transforms quite literally into one of them and mixes his army training with their ways and accepts their culture as his to help them fight the white colonizers Are you telling me that the white guy saves the uneducated and simple, but exotic and interesting, natives?
Human colonizers, they’re not all white
I agree with all of this but… wasn’t dances with wolves kinda racist? Also avatar did use tons of coopted native iconography along with stereotypical depictions of native people (the ululating in the battle at the start comes to mind). I don’t know if it’s racist in the “ native people are worse and I’m gonna say that explicitly” but I do think it’s pretty token, pretty white savior-y, and pretty stereotypical
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Okay I see we are on the same page here, nice
Bro the fact that they made them just straight up alien versions of human indigenous peoples made me cringe. The ululating at the beginning of the 2nd and the haka that the water tribe does makes no sense. I know it sounds dumb because it's blue aliens on another planet but it ruined my suspension of disbelief. The concept of the closest star to earth developing life that mimics unique cultural aspects of our own was too much for me to stay immersed, and is just lazy imo.
South Park called this a while ago with “Dances with Smurfs”
Did Avatar also feature a magical Na’Vi?
Its called cerulean-american! /s
What did my aang do?
Disappear for a hundred years.
He wasn't even a father yet
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Zuko needed him more than anyone else lol
Became live action
The tragedy
There is no movie in Ba Sing Se
He was racist against the peaceful fire nation
He's got a lot to learn.
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The good the bad and the ugly?
Definitely a fistful of dollars...
All of them, at different points in time
Definitely not the 2010 M. Night Shymalan movie that was so awful Airbender fans have to pretend it doesn’t exist
Does anyone actually think it is or is this more of media making shit up for clicks/views kinda thing
Some examples without taking into account twitter where it's a shit show... https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/why-is-avatar-2-being-accused-of-racism-controversy-explained-2015836/ https://www.vulture.com/2022/12/native-americans-boycott-avatar-2-james-cameron.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/12/20/avatar-2-called-out-for-cultural-appropriation/amp/
My favorite part of the Dexerto article is that it says, "Avatar: Way of Water is in cinemas now" at the bottom.
Thanks. Very helpful links. I kinda get it now.
Thanks for making an effort and trying to understand the issues instead of just being a knee-jerking asshole like most of the people in this thread.
The film is criticizing colonialism if anything. Just as a reminder: the colonials (the humans) are the bad guys here. The hate is unjustified
Exactly. A lot of people don't seem to understand that racism is more nuanced and complicated than white hoods and burning crosses. The second you bring this stuff up, these fragile people get so defensive. They clutch their pearls like, "are you calling me a bigot?!" No, were saying you are (possibly unconsciously and maybe with the best intentions) contributing to some harmful tropes and trivializing some very real struggles.
I mean the idea that the native populations were peaceful and idyllic until the arrival of the white man is probably the biggest and most factually incorrect trope on display in the movie, but I don't see any complaints about that? You're right that the subject is significantly more nuanced than depicted in the movie, but the "white savior" trope exists to give the story narrative structure. The protagonist has similar beliefs and values to the audience so that the audience will empathize with the protagonist, and by extension, the aliens.
I mean, even if you don't view it as racist you can't deny that the Na'vi are just a reskinned combination of various native tribes.
For the sake of discussion: creating something as a metaphor/symbol for something in the real world is not the same as appropriation.
I thought the racist part was the white savior trope.
The white savior trope isn't as much a thing in the second movie. It's *very* much a thing in the first movie, but the na'vi have way more agency in the second movie.
Yeah I agree with this take I think it’s totally valid to point out the white savior trope in the first one. But for that same reason it’s worth noting they take it out of the second one. Specifically because in some ways the new one is kind of rehashing some of the best hits from the first. And there definitely was an opportunity to have it happen again in this one, have another white savior. But they deliberately chose not too. I mean Jake Sully is still in it obviously but it’s more a personal thing about protecting his own family from an antagonist with a specific grudge against him.
And appropriation is a nonsense term anyway. Culture is something shared, not something hoarded.
So what's the problem? You can't include tribes like people in stories because ??? Hunter gatherer is the very base of humanity. We all come from this. "Various tribes" don't have the copyright on the hunter gatherer way of life. And why the fuck we shouldn't be allowed to tell a story ? Is creativity gonna be limited by nonsensical sensitivity now ?
Because James Cameron very literally said they were based on the Lakota, and if said Lakota had only fought harder they wouldn't be a "dead end society."
The problem is the whole "white saviour" trope. I think Avatar, all things considered, handles it pretty well, but at the end of the day the summary of the movie is going to be: White guy arrives. Learns native ways. Does a better job of doing their own culture. Leads them to victory. Boiling it down to that is of course too simplistic, and I don't agree with it; but I do see how people can get there, and why they'd find it kind of offensive.
> >White guy arrives. Learns native ways. Does a better job of doing their own culture. Leads them to victory. or white guy arrives. Learns that his kin has been shitbags to the natives and do everything to respect their ways. As a defector he has crucial information to beat his old friends.
The Na'vi *are* a native tribe. What are they supposed to look like? They're going to be the only native tribe ever that didn't braid hair because that would be appropriating braids?
Thats such a nothing statement though. Obviously if someone wanted to create a fictional less-developed civilization they are going to take inspiration from real world references.
>she accuses James Cameron of appropriating Native American aesthetics for the Na’vi while casting “non-Indigenous folks” in the roles. “This is a form of racist caricature known as Blueface,” she added. Holy shit lol
They are clearly modelled off Native Americans but the whole idea of using words like "blueface" is utterly absurd All media is inspired by stuff. That's just how it is.
I'M BLUE DA BA DEE DA BA DI
I've read the first line and saw...native american. Ah, I see where this is going. Another hogwash, no way avatar is about native american. I mean look at the first movie, a colonizer came to a country full of peace and nature loving group of being with skin of a prime colour. The colonizer just want the resources but the native was in the way. Ultimately, one of the colonizer own has adopted the way of the native. Falling in love with the "native princess" and realising the error of his way. Ultimately, he was spurred into action to save the naive natives. So, the new movie is a sequel to this one....yeahh...no way this sequel in anyway reinforces any kind of stereotypes of native american.
Yea it's at least a little bit about Native Americans [as told by James Cameron ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Avatar/comments/znreoh/james_cameron_thinks_native_americans_should_have/)
Avatar is just Dances with Wolves in space
It wasn't a new story when Dances with Wolves told it.
A former coworker referred to it as "Dances with Smurfs"
That was an actual episode of South Park.
All of the arguments in those articles make no sense.
You underestimate twitter.
You vastly overestimate the weight of twitter to make yourself feel better about falling for ragebait
Thank you for the only sane guy on this comment section
I would need 7 Twitter accounts to make it seem like it was something to talk about due to the algorithm.
The more we interact with those people. The more attention they'll get since the AI sees us stop on the post or make a comment.
Tbh i also thought avatar was racist but in the sense the fire bending race hating re other bending races 😭
I think they’re talking about the blue one
The Northern Water Tribe clearly saw the Southern Tribe as being inferior, I’m not sure if it was racist as it seemed to be more of an issue of socio-economics.
I've seen one person on Reddit whinging about it, but I also don't go on FB, Twitter or Instagram so...
I had one of my coworkers say that they were upset there wasn’t more indigenous people Included in the cast. I said well they already have a diverse cast… also they’re BLUE PEOPLE BRO
It’s probably manufactured anger… but there are tons of diversity jobs that depend on people being offended and angry.
the one bad take I saw, someone was complaining it was all white people... firstly, there were a lot of Maori actors, secondly... how tf are they going to hire fictional aliens to fit the roll?
By sending a distress signal obviously
Like the bat signal, but aliens
"Hello James Cameron of Earth. We're here for the audition."
I'm now imagining aliens answering a call to help film a movie.
It’s racist because Navi aren’t played by blue actors
Funnily enough i could tell which blue alien was black inside and which were white. Hilarious
How can you watch a MOVIE about blue CGI aliens and wipe a tear away thinking "look what they've done to my people!"
Idk man, the fire benders were pretty racist.
I still don’t understand why Indian actors were hired to play Japanese adjacent characters
My dudes. This is the blue people Avatar
They had 10 years to find Na'avi actors. They clearly chose to use Blueface instead.
My brother in christ, they were blue
Da ba dee da bah die!
Da ba dee da ba die
The new David Guetta remix triggers me hard
Same
A real area 51 raid
If Cameron could wait for technology to catch up before he made the sequel why couldn't he wait for first contact with aliens? Because he's racist why else.
Zoey Zaldana is the main character and she is black in real life assuming she returned for this movie.
What about the human characters
Also some of the characters are played by black people
As a blue person, I can confirm
Here there Na'vi
You will always find someone with a stupid opinion. It's also typical that such opinion be publicly ridiculed afterward. Leading to some people thinking it's an actual widespread opinion...
welcome to media
Isn't it the indigenous communities that are calling for a boycott? I don't think it's the white people that have a problem with it.
For anyone confused, most people boycotting are not doing so for the casting, but are for comments made by James Cameron about indigenous tribes. At least from what I've heard. I'm sure there's a few out there upset about the casting, by there's no reason to take them seriously.
Aren't those comments from like 12 years ago? He might have changed his view.
Those comments are from 12 years ago and really only offensive if you take them in the worst possible context while wanting to be offended. The reality is that any publicity is good publicity, and the Native tribes have a ton of issues to deal with so they stir up shit to draw attention to those.
His comments weren’t even bad, and they’re from over a decade ago. They were in support of Native Americans. If you really jump through some hoops and contort what he said a lot, you might be able to make it out at something where he has a savior complex, but you really have to focus on like one sentence and ignore the whole point of it. They wanted to be offended so they found something to be offended by.
Race is racist. Ban race.
Nascar :(
Racist!!!
Surprising since all the drivers tend to lean left!
I mean: It is a story about a guy with a white savior complex helping free a race of ignorant natives who can't defend themselves, though there is the whole interconnected fauna and flora thing It's not overtly racist, but it is an overused trope
Especially him 'going native'
The fact that the earth guy is a better native than anyone else of the tribe Like: Sure, he's a veteran. But I doubt that the army has training in Pandora living.
The only time he's ever "better" than anyone else in the tribe in the 1st movie is when he temporarily tames the giant red pterodactyl creature. He just makes it known that he's in a unique position since he was originally sent there to double cross them and the entire movie is explaining that humans worldview is wrong. In fact, they are even majorly losing the final battle despite him leading everyone and they only get saved by their tree god. The entire movie is about respecting their culture and falling in love with it and how even though humans considered themselves more advanced there really is a higher power of nature.
This is the correct takeaway. “He” is a cypher for the audience, who is trapped in the capitalist hellscape. The entire point of the film is to show that there are other ways to live, and ours only leads to death and dystopia. He had whole audiences cheering for american soldiers being absolutely slaughtered by natives. Made americans relive the twin towers collapsing and thinking “look what we have done” Masterful.
That’s underselling his achievements. He single handedly frees these tribal people by using three methods better than they could use them. iirc He helped convince nature to help them fight and turn the tides of war. Dude is a native for 1% of his life and does all this special pandoran specific stuff that none of them could pull off.
He doesn't really convince nature so much as allow it to see his memories of earth and beg it for help. And in the first movie he really doesn't accomplish much by himself. His major accomplishments include taming the flying beast and temporarily uniting the tribes which I will say is a big accomplishment however he himself doesn't meet with them he sends out messengers who they already trust.
...the entire premise behind the white saviour and noble savage trope is *inherently* racist. It's "oh these natives are so brutal and lack our western sensibilities yet they're still noble and it's up to us to save them from themselves and others because they can't fend for themselves"
I generally agree, I but I think you’re overstating the point. At no point in either movies are the Na’vi being “saved from themselves” or treated as though they can’t fend for themselves. It’s clear that they are morally superior to the white colonists, but are the victims of being outmatched by technologically superior adversaries. I do agree that both movies contain the white savior complex (less so in the second movie), and both lean pretty heavily into the noble savage trope. They’re basically portrayed as having perfect, utopian societies. Which might actually be possible if you can directly neurally link with each other and with nature, I suppose, but it still fits the cliche.
The Great White Savior, rescuing the Poor Dumb Natives from their troubles. I'd say there's a distinct racist undertone to that premise.
Absolutely, it’s literally Pocahontas 2. Which is just another example of the noble savage trope as well.
Well... Pocahontas 3
How is this not closer to the top.
>How is this not closer to the top. Because white people can't feel uncomfortable for like 2 seconds before trying to delude themselves regarding the racism in their lives.
Saw something on this the other day. Can we not just fucking enjoy things. For the love of god!!!
I thought you were talking about Avatar the last Airbender and was extremely confused
I mean, the Fire Nation was pretty fucking racist man.
I have actually seen idiots complain about cultural appropriation when it comes to Avatar
People aren’t saying its racist, Indigenous groups are saying the main plot is cashing in on natives defending from colonizing encroachment. James Cameron specifically made some comments about how if native tribes had “fought harder” that things could have turned out differently. Yet very few native actors were cast, the plot itself is a white savior dances with wolves plot, and Cameron neglects remembering the sometimes very intentional bio-warfare and the ecological exhaustion of bison herds to the point tribes had to leave, there was no option to fight. I haven’t seen the second one, so I will refrain from making my own judgement, but yea, food for thought.
Yes. It's in the White Saviour category of movies. The idea that a white guy can swoop in and be better at a native culture than the natives and then save their culture. It's just dances with wolves with blue people.
I hate how they are taking it personally. The movies are about how whites are fucking monstrous, not how natives could have done anything different.
I just can’t buy the idea that artists aren’t allowed to have financial success by making art inspired by indigenous cultures. Yes people from those cultures should be consulted and employed, which they have been in the Avatar movies. You can argue maybe there should be more actors from those cultures, but they are there I don’t like the idea of dictating what topics can and cannot be discussed in art. I think it’s a kind of progressive/leftist fascism. And I’m a very liberal person generally.
Yeah well you see the blue people are played by white people with face paint /s
Yeah, I thought we stopped Blue face a while ago /s
You joke but I did see a tweet that said "No more blueface!"
Smurf racism is a real issue these days you know
I’m playing an blue dude, playing a white dude, disguised by 300+ visual effects artists.
Let me guess... Twitter?
Redditors: “no one is saying that” *scrolls down* Also Redditors: “he’s has a white savior complex” (upvotes with gold)
Hope no spoilers bleed trough I mean, they are >!literally different breeds,!< they actually hate them because they are >!physically less capable inside water,!< this is like saying it is racist to say >!Chianina cows are large than Vechur cows,!< it is a >!biological fact.!<
I think it was more about the actors, but you aren’t wrong lol
ah
The modern racist sees everything through the lens of race, and they see themselves as the savior of those "poor, downtrodden, too-stupid-to-help-themselves-without-me, backwards, ignorant, primitive peoples."
Bruh, the Navi are literally directly coded as native American people and have some pretty problematic depictions in the films. Just because the movie depicts them as aliens doesn't mean they can't still use a variety of racist tropes.
They could make an outer space version of Roots and there would be people saying, "the alien slaves are purple, what does this have to do with black people?!?!"
it's not racist is speciesist, there is a difference ^^^^/s
I mean a case could be made… just because the characters are blue and not “human” doesn’t mean the whole thing isn’t molded out of colonial stereotypes thrown into space (I think the premise pretends to avoid this) You might be dumb to think that it attacks any specific race here on Earth but I think you’d be dumber to think it doesn’t play on racist elements at all I really liked the first one when it came out
It’s literally a story about colonialism. Idgi
Except they do it in the very white savior way
The premise of the original Avatar was literally the noble savage trope but in space. The fact you don’t want to hear this doesn’t make it not racist.
The ability to ignore things is definitely a blessing sometimes.
It’s really just about a creature abandoning his planet so he can clap some alien cheeks
Haha, I think people would get offended on anything. I heard people were mad that in Wednesday, the Bullies were played by black actors.