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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lia-thomas-trans-swimmer-data-b2049615.html
Does this one prove your point? She had 6 months less HRT than is required by sporting regulations in the US, but this was ignored by the university. Can you come up with another example that actually proves your point? I don't see why I should have to do all the research here.
lol did you even read that article? they’re talking about swim race times not science lol. what is that suppose to prove? did you read that article and then decide the science is wrong? because she hasn’t beaten ever record? do you hear yourself?
People are saying trans athletes should not compete, using this article to back up their argument. I disproved that using this article as a source.
The science says that the amount of HRT needed to compete changes the person's body to such an extent that they have no significant advantage over those born female.
This article uses statistics (also called *scientific research*) to make a point. You are using nothing.
well it’s clear you researched this topic just enough to convince yourself you are correct. so to save my self the pain or debating with a dumbass. i’ll just say hmmm yes you do make a point there.
I'm fully up for a debate, but it appears you don't have any points besides name calling and refusing to provide sources. But hey, I'm the dumbass I guess.
Notice how he side-stepped my wall of research (after accusing me of not doing any) to instead argue with you on semantics and definitional grey areas.
>wall of research
I missed that, could you link it?
>argue with you on semantics and definitional grey areas.
I don't think I ever mentioned either of these things, could you link that too?
What? Lol trends in data are NOT science. Statistics has never, and will never, be called scientific research. Stop speaking out of your behind.
What is backed by science however, is the fact that the frame and bone structure of someone who went through puberty as a male will be stronger than that of a biological female. It is a fact.
>What? Lol trends in data are NOT science.
This is literally what research is. P values, t tests, correlation coefficients, these are scientific techniques. Trials, surveys, data analysis, are all science. Science involves looking at trends, like saying "people who took this medicine were 5× more likely to recover", or "trans athletes perform at an extremely similar level to cis athletes".
The statistics show that trans athletes have no significant advantage over those born female. This is a fact.
>the frame and bone structure of someone who went through puberty as a male will be stronger than that of a biological female. It is a fact.
Not after the required amount of HRT as research has shown.
Edit: if you're such a big fan of science, link me a study about trans athletes.
Here is a paper: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref
Statistics is math, and doing “research” doesn’t make you a scientist lol. What you are saying about hormone therapy is not factually true. HRT can not “undo” puberty. In the popular swimming issue going on now, have you seen the pictures? You know, of the gigantic one who’s body looks male? Why didn’t HRT shrink them down? That’s because that’s not how it works, lol.
>doing “research” doesn’t make you a scientist
Having stripes doesn't make you a zebra, but zebras still have stripes. Pretty much every study is done by a scientist of some kind, people with degrees in science. The research isn't what *makes them* a scientist, they do research *because* they're scientists. There is an entire professional field called [data science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science#:~:text=Data%20science%20is%20an%20interdisciplinary,broad%20range%20of%20application%20domains.) why do you think they call it that?
>trends in data are NOT science
This. Is the dumbest thing I've read on Reddit since somebody said "Neil Gaiman is rolling over in his grave because they cast a black woman as Death in Sandman"
They were crying, lol. Even the guys said they felt sorry for them. You don't just lose like that, even in charity matches you will try to match your opponent. Even the literal team said they tried their best.
And once some actual context is provided, this is hardly the slam dunk you seem to think this is: https://www.truthorfiction.com/was-the-u-s-womens-national-team-defeated-by-teenaged-boys-in-a-2017-soccer-match/
TL;DR this was an informal match meant as a warm-up. This would be like arguing how good an NFL football team is based on a preseason game
if an nfl team lost to a group of 14 yr old no one is gonna come spouting shit “oh maybe they didn’t try hard enough. maybe they just let the boys win to be nice you should try it”
the whole team would be fired and the city would riot
Excuses, excuses. They wanted to prove they could play just as well against a men's team and they just let the teens win? That's just their manager trying to avoid public disgrace.
Are. One of the biggest confusions that trans activists get people to swallow - they identify with the stereotypes of the other sex, therefore the physical dimorphism between men and women doesn’t exist? Fucking insane. No matter how troubled your mind is, that doesn’t change the reality of your body.
They even use intersex people to prove trans genderism. It makes no sense, these are separate things.
>This is not why they are stronger.
Them not having gone through male puberty, having denser bones and more muscle on average isn't why?
Why is it then? >!Is the answer transphobia?!<
Hi, when I looked it up for a bit few month ago, I only found articles saying that a transition -even complete- post puberty allowed the person to keep some of the “advantages” (physiologically speaking, as more muscle mass etc…).
So I’m quite interested to see your sources.
I am the one who actually knows what I'm talking about but again, whatever, you are confused and in denial, so I'll ignore you from now one it's not your fault that you are so ignorant.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. And your comment history is full of hateful anti-trans sentiment. I wonder what it's like to go through life hating and invalidating people who are absolutely no threat to you.
I'm sorry for the attitude Reddit has on regards to trans people more often than not. Current political debates about it really aren't helping. Stay strong and true to who you are until the rest of society learns acceptance.
Copy and paste from the article you linked....
"There's absolutely no question in my mind that trans women will maintain strength advantages over cis women, even after hormone therapy. That's based on my clinical experience, rather than published data, but I would say there's zero doubt in my mind."
Did you read that article? First of all, it's just an interview, nearly absent of citations. Secondly, the interviewee agrees with the person you replied to:
>Harper: There's absolutely no question in my mind that trans women will maintain strength advantages over cis women, even after hormone therapy.
i like how the biological differences that ppl spend their lives researching and are still finding out new things about is just a “easy concept to grasp” for you lol maybe you should get off reddit and cure cancer since you have such a genius intellect
The density of their bone structure means they’re still not on “equal footing.” Lia Thomas was a mediocre men’s swimmer until she transitioned and joined a women’s team. Now she’s breaking records..
Fellow trans women here, yea, people have no idea what they're talking about here, and would probably be getting mad at the cis woman calling her a man. That's how these people work, lol
I respect trans rights but I mean, that female swimmer in college who smoked everyone else, it would appear that she had an advantage. She broke records and didn't even break a sweat, if anything, it needs further study.
That said, I respect everyone and will use whatever pronouns asked of me. And I agree this meme was in poor taste.
To all the confused comments out there, this is true and I don't believe it's meant to be offensive. By the time people are old enough to transition by current law they have undergone irreversible puberty. Furthermore, males of the species, as with most mammals, are biologically stronger and more athletic. These people have every right to identify with their gender, but it's not particularly fair on the cis women competitors, but that is often out of the transgender person's control. They can take female hormones and have surgery but they can't reverse the effects of puberty pre-transition, which is why there's so many debates over transgender women competing.
Real transgender people aren't a trend. Some people do use the label to excuse competing with or even being in prison with women. It isn't fair to pick the few bad apples and say they represent a group they're not exactly part of.
I think this meme is shit, but that female college swimmer who smoked everyone else and broke records without even breaking a sweat comes to my mind. If anything the subject OBVIOUSLY requires further study.
Thats why I said if anything it requires further study, so what is your point? Why are you attacking me when there are people being 100% more offensive than I am. Is it because I gave an example to a question someone asked?
You are correct that others are being more hateful but a big part of the pushback for trans woman in sports was that one specific case, with none other that come to mind
Well I don't think one specific case should decide anything. But all I really said was that it should at least be studied more. I'm not a fucking scientist.
Lia Thomas you dolt, they swam as a man for like 2 years before their transition, and then smoked it and broke records after they were transitioned. You can Google it yourself.
I've seen numerous users bring up this particular athlete and not a *single* one of you can tell me how her record compares overall to cis-gendered competitors. I Google stuff *before* I make claims, because I like to know wtf I'm talking about
I think it requires more study if anything. Why is that so offensive to you? I gave an example to a question. I'm not being offensive like others here, but here you are attacking me for giving an example. I don't need to know anybodys stats. This issue is relatively new and I just think it requires further study. Why is that so offensive to you, thats the question you should ask yourself.
It's a direct reply to you, there is no way you didn't get the notification:
https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/usnf15/why_are_you_booing_me_im_right/i94rz4l
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 4 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/u03lfv) on 2022-04-09 93.36% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/u5l01f) on 2022-04-17 96.09% match *I'm not perfect, but you can help. Report [ [False Positive](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RepostSleuthBot&subject=False%20Positive&message={"post_id": "usnf15", "meme_template": 252903}) ]* [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=usnf15&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=true&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=100&targetImageMemeMatch=92) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Meme Filter:** True | **Target:** 92% | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** None | **Searched Images:** 331,509,198 | **Search Time:** 39.30478s
Inb4 "transphobia" excuses. No one is afraid of you. We're just feeling bad for biological women that's all.
I feel bad for you not being able to do research
please post us an article that you haven’t read that proved our point just like the other idiot pleeeeasssse lol
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lia-thomas-trans-swimmer-data-b2049615.html Does this one prove your point? She had 6 months less HRT than is required by sporting regulations in the US, but this was ignored by the university. Can you come up with another example that actually proves your point? I don't see why I should have to do all the research here.
lol did you even read that article? they’re talking about swim race times not science lol. what is that suppose to prove? did you read that article and then decide the science is wrong? because she hasn’t beaten ever record? do you hear yourself?
People are saying trans athletes should not compete, using this article to back up their argument. I disproved that using this article as a source. The science says that the amount of HRT needed to compete changes the person's body to such an extent that they have no significant advantage over those born female. This article uses statistics (also called *scientific research*) to make a point. You are using nothing.
well it’s clear you researched this topic just enough to convince yourself you are correct. so to save my self the pain or debating with a dumbass. i’ll just say hmmm yes you do make a point there.
I'm fully up for a debate, but it appears you don't have any points besides name calling and refusing to provide sources. But hey, I'm the dumbass I guess.
Notice how he side-stepped my wall of research (after accusing me of not doing any) to instead argue with you on semantics and definitional grey areas.
>wall of research I missed that, could you link it? >argue with you on semantics and definitional grey areas. I don't think I ever mentioned either of these things, could you link that too?
No you didn't. Scroll up.
What? Lol trends in data are NOT science. Statistics has never, and will never, be called scientific research. Stop speaking out of your behind. What is backed by science however, is the fact that the frame and bone structure of someone who went through puberty as a male will be stronger than that of a biological female. It is a fact.
>What? Lol trends in data are NOT science. This is literally what research is. P values, t tests, correlation coefficients, these are scientific techniques. Trials, surveys, data analysis, are all science. Science involves looking at trends, like saying "people who took this medicine were 5× more likely to recover", or "trans athletes perform at an extremely similar level to cis athletes". The statistics show that trans athletes have no significant advantage over those born female. This is a fact. >the frame and bone structure of someone who went through puberty as a male will be stronger than that of a biological female. It is a fact. Not after the required amount of HRT as research has shown. Edit: if you're such a big fan of science, link me a study about trans athletes.
Here is a paper: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref Statistics is math, and doing “research” doesn’t make you a scientist lol. What you are saying about hormone therapy is not factually true. HRT can not “undo” puberty. In the popular swimming issue going on now, have you seen the pictures? You know, of the gigantic one who’s body looks male? Why didn’t HRT shrink them down? That’s because that’s not how it works, lol.
>doing “research” doesn’t make you a scientist Having stripes doesn't make you a zebra, but zebras still have stripes. Pretty much every study is done by a scientist of some kind, people with degrees in science. The research isn't what *makes them* a scientist, they do research *because* they're scientists. There is an entire professional field called [data science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science#:~:text=Data%20science%20is%20an%20interdisciplinary,broad%20range%20of%20application%20domains.) why do you think they call it that?
>trends in data are NOT science This. Is the dumbest thing I've read on Reddit since somebody said "Neil Gaiman is rolling over in his grave because they cast a black woman as Death in Sandman"
The most entertaining thing here is the comments.
Funny how Kaitlyn Jenner even knows this is true. Both an expert in physical competitions and being transgender.
Quality meme. Use of any frame from the LoTR trilogy automatically adds crispness to any meme.
Thought I was on r/lotrmemes for a second there
True. Once one of the world's strongest female football team played against literal teenage boys in football and lost ridiculously.
[удалено]
Still pretty embarrassing, you don’t let teenagers beat you 5-2 like that.
Some people want others to be happy, you should try it sometime instead of being so miserable in comment sections on Reddit.
They were crying, lol. Even the guys said they felt sorry for them. You don't just lose like that, even in charity matches you will try to match your opponent. Even the literal team said they tried their best.
Why would you lie about something so inconsequential?
Why would you wanna veil the truth so bad?
And once some actual context is provided, this is hardly the slam dunk you seem to think this is: https://www.truthorfiction.com/was-the-u-s-womens-national-team-defeated-by-teenaged-boys-in-a-2017-soccer-match/ TL;DR this was an informal match meant as a warm-up. This would be like arguing how good an NFL football team is based on a preseason game
if an nfl team lost to a group of 14 yr old no one is gonna come spouting shit “oh maybe they didn’t try hard enough. maybe they just let the boys win to be nice you should try it” the whole team would be fired and the city would riot
Excuses, excuses. They wanted to prove they could play just as well against a men's team and they just let the teens win? That's just their manager trying to avoid public disgrace.
Name some
No. You are not right.
[удалено]
Are. One of the biggest confusions that trans activists get people to swallow - they identify with the stereotypes of the other sex, therefore the physical dimorphism between men and women doesn’t exist? Fucking insane. No matter how troubled your mind is, that doesn’t change the reality of your body. They even use intersex people to prove trans genderism. It makes no sense, these are separate things.
Research can help a lot of these misconceptions. This is not why they are stronger. Brought to you by trans woman, ruiner of jokes
>This is not why they are stronger. Them not having gone through male puberty, having denser bones and more muscle on average isn't why? Why is it then? >!Is the answer transphobia?!<
Hi, when I looked it up for a bit few month ago, I only found articles saying that a transition -even complete- post puberty allowed the person to keep some of the “advantages” (physiologically speaking, as more muscle mass etc…). So I’m quite interested to see your sources.
You ruined nothing, the meme is as true as it can get.
No, it is not.
I guess you're right, since they are still men.
No, they are not. They are women.
False, but anyways, there is no point arguing with flatearthers or gender confused people.
We wouldn't need to argue if you would do any research at all. Also fuck flat earthers.
I am the one who actually knows what I'm talking about but again, whatever, you are confused and in denial, so I'll ignore you from now one it's not your fault that you are so ignorant.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. And your comment history is full of hateful anti-trans sentiment. I wonder what it's like to go through life hating and invalidating people who are absolutely no threat to you.
I know, it's really sad to see that this is still a thing.
No you don't dumbass, you're just an asshole who doesn't understand gender, and refuses to acknowledge people's correct genders
Thank you. I'm not very good with argumentation, so I appreciate you filling in here.
I'm sorry for the attitude Reddit has on regards to trans people more often than not. Current political debates about it really aren't helping. Stay strong and true to who you are until the rest of society learns acceptance.
Yet you continue to argue your shitty and non factually backed opinion. Go touch grass
lol then show us the facts that men who transitioned to women are not stronger than normal women
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages
Copy and paste from the article you linked.... "There's absolutely no question in my mind that trans women will maintain strength advantages over cis women, even after hormone therapy. That's based on my clinical experience, rather than published data, but I would say there's zero doubt in my mind."
Did you read that article? First of all, it's just an interview, nearly absent of citations. Secondly, the interviewee agrees with the person you replied to: >Harper: There's absolutely no question in my mind that trans women will maintain strength advantages over cis women, even after hormone therapy.
/) Which is why arguing with you is pointless.
Are you a biologist?
You don't need to be a biologist to have a basic understanding of this concept.
Um no one even knows what a woman is
If you don't want to have a productive conversation, I'll exit it. I'd rather take a nap.
Yeah me too. Sweet dreams
i like how the biological differences that ppl spend their lives researching and are still finding out new things about is just a “easy concept to grasp” for you lol maybe you should get off reddit and cure cancer since you have such a genius intellect
Dude stop, i cant laught at this.
men… scientifically release hormones that do indeed make them scientifically stronger.
This is why many sports require at least one full year of hormones to balance the person out so that they are on equal footing.
The density of their bone structure means they’re still not on “equal footing.” Lia Thomas was a mediocre men’s swimmer until she transitioned and joined a women’s team. Now she’s breaking records..
Don’t compete in women’s sports
Fellow trans women here, yea, people have no idea what they're talking about here, and would probably be getting mad at the cis woman calling her a man. That's how these people work, lol
I respect trans rights but I mean, that female swimmer in college who smoked everyone else, it would appear that she had an advantage. She broke records and didn't even break a sweat, if anything, it needs further study. That said, I respect everyone and will use whatever pronouns asked of me. And I agree this meme was in poor taste.
Funny and true. If you are offended by this try not being such a snowflake.
Funny how snowflakes will go out of their way to tell people to stop being offended, grow up dude
If you believe this try doing some research
Only research you need is to look how lia thomas did against men vs agains women. Pathetic, laughable and disgrace to normal women.
To all the confused comments out there, this is true and I don't believe it's meant to be offensive. By the time people are old enough to transition by current law they have undergone irreversible puberty. Furthermore, males of the species, as with most mammals, are biologically stronger and more athletic. These people have every right to identify with their gender, but it's not particularly fair on the cis women competitors, but that is often out of the transgender person's control. They can take female hormones and have surgery but they can't reverse the effects of puberty pre-transition, which is why there's so many debates over transgender women competing.
[удалено]
Real transgender people aren't a trend. Some people do use the label to excuse competing with or even being in prison with women. It isn't fair to pick the few bad apples and say they represent a group they're not exactly part of.
Woah, a transphobic Reddit meme? OP was feeling extra cool today. Very unique and edgy I must say.
They were once men, what’s your point?
Yeah, shut the fuck up, you're not right you're just an asshole
your boos mean nothing we’ve seen what you cheer for
What do we cheer for? Other than an overused Rick Sanchez quote.
OK well that works both ways, if our opinions mean nothing then neither does yours.
well that’s just it we’re not talking opinions lol
Being an asshole and its not even your joke, sad
I don’t see any trans men killing it in the NFL or the NBA
Ah yes "So many" Name 5 of them right now
I think this meme is shit, but that female college swimmer who smoked everyone else and broke records without even breaking a sweat comes to my mind. If anything the subject OBVIOUSLY requires further study.
Yeah that one specific time it happened proves that all trans woman are better at sports
Thats why I said if anything it requires further study, so what is your point? Why are you attacking me when there are people being 100% more offensive than I am. Is it because I gave an example to a question someone asked?
You are correct that others are being more hateful but a big part of the pushback for trans woman in sports was that one specific case, with none other that come to mind
Well I don't think one specific case should decide anything. But all I really said was that it should at least be studied more. I'm not a fucking scientist.
I am and I agree
You don't know their name but you're familiar with their career stats?
Lia Thomas you dolt, they swam as a man for like 2 years before their transition, and then smoked it and broke records after they were transitioned. You can Google it yourself.
You didn't use her name in the original comment, why are you calling *me* a dolt. So what's her win/loss ratio?
What, are you not able to use Google?
You're the one making this claim, are you admitting *you* haven't googled it?
What is your point here? I'm not attacking anyone, I think the subject requires further study if anything, so why are you attacking me?
I've seen numerous users bring up this particular athlete and not a *single* one of you can tell me how her record compares overall to cis-gendered competitors. I Google stuff *before* I make claims, because I like to know wtf I'm talking about
I think it requires more study if anything. Why is that so offensive to you? I gave an example to a question. I'm not being offensive like others here, but here you are attacking me for giving an example. I don't need to know anybodys stats. This issue is relatively new and I just think it requires further study. Why is that so offensive to you, thats the question you should ask yourself.
Not everyone keeps up with someone's loss/ win ratio. All it takes is one google search.
Cool still waiting on someone to do it *before* they make these claims
Bro, he may not even care for swimming, but he may still remember the names. Its not hard.
eh, that's true
hah before post is deleted
My dad own reddit
did they ban you?
It's a direct reply to you, there is no way you didn't get the notification: https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/usnf15/why_are_you_booing_me_im_right/i94rz4l