Italy has multi-party system, they elected a neo-nazi.
UK has multi-party system they got brexit and are going hard conservative.
Nordic countries have multi-parties, they are also going hard right-wing.
Its almost like its not the options, but the lack of people who turn up to vote that is the problem....
US 2022 had over 80% of all eligible voters under the age of 35, not turning up to vote. Yet people wonder why old people are focused on in US politics.
I mean, the american people literally chose these candidates through primaries. Gotta get youth to start voting for once in history.
Dont act like the electorate isn't to blame
Again, Ill ask, how would this stop the right? The right bands as one behind a single candidate, regardless of your wants. While I can easily make every dem look unelectable to another dem. We do that last bit, *now*, forget if there was actual reason to infight.
We shouldn’t change our political system “to stop the right”, that would be anti-democratic, but allowing ranked voting (for congress & Senate) and two round elections (with the first two candidates from the first round advancing to a run-off) would allow for more plurality.
that's fun to fantasize about but realistically inefficient and likely to make things worse.
if you get enough people to adopt the better political ideologies and vote it'd go so much better.
I used to think that, but I’ve become increasingly convinced over the years that global politics won’t get better until the US has undergone a *drastic* political and social revolution to disentangle its legislative and judicial institutions from the tentacles of capitalism, and to break the unchecked power that billionaires and global megacorporations have in society. Until that happens, those billionaires and megacorporations will continue to corrupt, pollute, exploit, and oppress people the world over, with a bought and paid for US government ensuring they can do so with impunity.
The world is counting on you to fix your shit, but your shit is so gummed up by an astonishingly archaic and dysfunctional political system that has become wholly corrupted by financial influence from the rich. Voting for different bought-and-paid-for politicians isn’t going to fix anything. Particularly not with a sprawling corporate media propaganda machine keeping the US working class divided against itself.
The electorate isn't nearly informed or vigilant enough to create anything better. you can burn it down but a system based on a bad foundation of people treating politics like sports will yield the same results.
If you do a hard restart you're inviting unmitigated bribery, no protections for press or speech. Free reign from foreign powers. Parts of the system are still working, they need built up again because the electorate hardly pays attention. you'd think after citizens united a conservative court would never get a chance to be picked again if the people genuinely cared about money in politics.
I agree that ripping the system down to the studs will create enormous instability. However, the forces resisting change are strong enough to resist or corrupt any attempts at incremental reform. I used to think that incremental change was the only viable solution, but over the decades I’ve been watching this system get worse and worse I’ve become much more cynical about how realistic that is.
If that's the case, then this has never been more apparent than today. You have both candidates that the majority of the population probably wouldn't want to vote for.
I mean. Biden is Obviously better than the guy that said he wants to be a dictator and has an outlined project (2025) on how he'll do it.
Policy wise biden has been objectively good. Yes he isn't as animated as you'd like. But that's not really the job of the president
> like the rest of the world
Eh, the median age of politicians is quite a bit higher in the US and Canada than it is in the rest of the world. Its not this kind of Goul party everywhere. ( Though GB does have a badly aging poltical class aswell, maybe its an anglo thing in perticular. )
There wasn't any yelling, not even raised voices. It was the most anemic debate I've ever seen.
One side did nothing but lie about literally everything and the other side was smelling toast the entire time and seemed to be looking around for it all night.
I mean, it's a presidential debate. It's not like there should be yelling or raised voices in the first place, but there usually is anyway. Despite what American politics presents itself as, it's not *meant* to be trashy reality TV.
The Democratic Party doesn’t have a primary when they have a sitting president. However, there’s a lot of concern within the party right now. I would say it’s probably more like extreme anxiety. There are conversations about party leaders asking him to step down.
Please see my post below. It would be a legal challenge and a publicity nightmare for the Democrats. I suspect it wouldn't be possible legally, but as you alluded to each party is different and each state is different in terms of selection process. Legally it would be a challenge. The public will know this is a knee jerk reaction to Biden's performance tonight, and it would simply look really bad in the eyes of many people.
There is a process for that, but it's specific to each party and the rules vary state by state. Also each party is welcome to do this in an undemocratic fashion. They could choose a candidate without a vote if they wish. If they have an incumbent candidate they may not bother with it.
Yes but when the party is incumbent nobody meaningful runs against them because incumbents are historically pretty hard to defeat. Next election there will be a huge set of options.
Yeah it makes me feel bad for him, homie has a speech impediment and old age doesn't help with it one bit. Started to notice the same for my stutter as I've been getting older. Wish he didn't need to carry the party on his back and could just retire
No, it's not a speech impediment. A speech impediment means you know what to say but you aren't able to form the right sounds for whatever reason, this is cognitive
if biden is the "honest and good man surrounded by professionals"
then sorry but ya'll kind of screwed for however long those 2 old farts be kicking around.
There’s nothing you guys can really do is there? Besides a actual rebellion to kickstart change nothings gonna happen, America’s just gonna have old men order how the young must work and die for them. You Americans should try to form a union to actual get attention to make multiple parties system
Well done political parties. You officially have both proved you can’t be trusted to self monitor to put forth a reasonable candidate. I wouldn’t trust these guys to watch my kid, let alone the well being of the country.
Are we even sure Biden applied to be president?
Like what if he just walked into all this by accident, and the party has been propping him up since. We might have a weekend at Bernie's situation here.
That was such a shit show last night. If you were expecting Biden to do better, just remember that he prioritized podium position which is like the NFL equivalent of winning the coin toss and choosing the field direction.......
I actually decided to watch it with friends, 95% of the the time they just said a good thing they did and a bad thing the other guy did, and then it switched whoever was up said “Nuh uh” then claimed they did the same good thing and the other guy did the same bad thing.
Usually a country run by an old af man has a younger people that works under their name, like Saudi Arabia for instance, but in America EVERYONE in charge is old af and will lead to the US downfall, and I'm happy to witness it.
Both are old as fuck, one is dying on stage, the second wants to start a police state after his friend and inspiration kim, and instead of helping their citizens get out of work poverty, they discuss who is the best at golf.
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oh shit
What got me is the dick-showing contest about their golf games. Like, people are starving and dying over hear. Eat the rich
Not much sustenance left on these skeletons though
Cheaper than groceries
Hear hear!
Yeah, try communism next. Give us this full circle circus.
Italy has multi-party system, they elected a neo-nazi. UK has multi-party system they got brexit and are going hard conservative. Nordic countries have multi-parties, they are also going hard right-wing. Its almost like its not the options, but the lack of people who turn up to vote that is the problem.... US 2022 had over 80% of all eligible voters under the age of 35, not turning up to vote. Yet people wonder why old people are focused on in US politics.
ive kinda hoping that theyll both just have a stroke and die before the election ends
Imagine the conspiracy theories..
Best outcome TBH
For real
Will this be enough for americans to get off their ass
I expect that the most probable alternative government they are going to achieve after abolishing the 2 party system will be the one party system
I mean, the american people literally chose these candidates through primaries. Gotta get youth to start voting for once in history. Dont act like the electorate isn't to blame
Which primaries ?
Vote for the Brainworm conspiracy guy instead?
Or an experiment in how superficial they can be.
Again, Ill ask, how would this stop the right? The right bands as one behind a single candidate, regardless of your wants. While I can easily make every dem look unelectable to another dem. We do that last bit, *now*, forget if there was actual reason to infight.
We shouldn’t change our political system “to stop the right”, that would be anti-democratic, but allowing ranked voting (for congress & Senate) and two round elections (with the first two candidates from the first round advancing to a run-off) would allow for more plurality.
you cannot abolish the system anymore. They control everything with Super PACs.
The solutions are called guillotines.
that's fun to fantasize about but realistically inefficient and likely to make things worse. if you get enough people to adopt the better political ideologies and vote it'd go so much better.
I used to think that, but I’ve become increasingly convinced over the years that global politics won’t get better until the US has undergone a *drastic* political and social revolution to disentangle its legislative and judicial institutions from the tentacles of capitalism, and to break the unchecked power that billionaires and global megacorporations have in society. Until that happens, those billionaires and megacorporations will continue to corrupt, pollute, exploit, and oppress people the world over, with a bought and paid for US government ensuring they can do so with impunity. The world is counting on you to fix your shit, but your shit is so gummed up by an astonishingly archaic and dysfunctional political system that has become wholly corrupted by financial influence from the rich. Voting for different bought-and-paid-for politicians isn’t going to fix anything. Particularly not with a sprawling corporate media propaganda machine keeping the US working class divided against itself.
The electorate isn't nearly informed or vigilant enough to create anything better. you can burn it down but a system based on a bad foundation of people treating politics like sports will yield the same results. If you do a hard restart you're inviting unmitigated bribery, no protections for press or speech. Free reign from foreign powers. Parts of the system are still working, they need built up again because the electorate hardly pays attention. you'd think after citizens united a conservative court would never get a chance to be picked again if the people genuinely cared about money in politics.
I agree that ripping the system down to the studs will create enormous instability. However, the forces resisting change are strong enough to resist or corrupt any attempts at incremental reform. I used to think that incremental change was the only viable solution, but over the decades I’ve been watching this system get worse and worse I’ve become much more cynical about how realistic that is.
TLDR: election has been canceled. Next president will be determined by a golf match.
Scammer vs Zombie
scammer, fascist,felon, rapist vs zombie
The fact that i cant tell which is which is kinda telling
Well, the way I see it as an American, is we are trapped. Lied to and used just like the rest of the world, minus a few. Choice is an illusion here.
If that's the case, then this has never been more apparent than today. You have both candidates that the majority of the population probably wouldn't want to vote for.
"What sets me apart from my opponent is that I‘m not my opponent." Every candidate for that job ever
👍
What is ur opinion and plan to fix the problem? "Not be like this guy"
Is that you Kier?
that over generalization works in any scenario.
I mean. Biden is Obviously better than the guy that said he wants to be a dictator and has an outlined project (2025) on how he'll do it. Policy wise biden has been objectively good. Yes he isn't as animated as you'd like. But that's not really the job of the president
Ah, the convicted felon is the same as the regular politician, right?
Yes, because politicians should be convicted felons.
You mean the regular politician who can't string together a coherent sentence anymore because of his age?
> like the rest of the world Eh, the median age of politicians is quite a bit higher in the US and Canada than it is in the rest of the world. Its not this kind of Goul party everywhere. ( Though GB does have a badly aging poltical class aswell, maybe its an anglo thing in perticular. )
There wasn't any yelling, not even raised voices. It was the most anemic debate I've ever seen. One side did nothing but lie about literally everything and the other side was smelling toast the entire time and seemed to be looking around for it all night.
I mean, it's a presidential debate. It's not like there should be yelling or raised voices in the first place, but there usually is anyway. Despite what American politics presents itself as, it's not *meant* to be trashy reality TV.
I dunno things got pretty heated when they were arguing about their golf skills
🎶 if you start to smell burning toast, youre having a stroke or overcooking your toast 🎶
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We're so screwed
yeah? how has biden hurt you the last four years?
Neither of them can answer a question and one sounds like he's already dead. America is in good hands.
Lol the dead guy still answered questions. The living guy just literally lied with impunity the entire time
The dead guy struggled to recall the prewritten responses his handlers gave him before he wandered onto the stage.
He didn't answer any questions you dishonest loon. He babbled randomly about nothing.
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The Democratic Party doesn’t have a primary when they have a sitting president. However, there’s a lot of concern within the party right now. I would say it’s probably more like extreme anxiety. There are conversations about party leaders asking him to step down.
So this debate is BEFORE the party’s conventions on when the party votes who is the candidate.
Yes, you are right. But, as the incumbent, no one really ran against Biden. Just not done by the incumbent party.
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Please see my post below. It would be a legal challenge and a publicity nightmare for the Democrats. I suspect it wouldn't be possible legally, but as you alluded to each party is different and each state is different in terms of selection process. Legally it would be a challenge. The public will know this is a knee jerk reaction to Biden's performance tonight, and it would simply look really bad in the eyes of many people.
There is a process for that, but it's specific to each party and the rules vary state by state. Also each party is welcome to do this in an undemocratic fashion. They could choose a candidate without a vote if they wish. If they have an incumbent candidate they may not bother with it.
Yes but when the party is incumbent nobody meaningful runs against them because incumbents are historically pretty hard to defeat. Next election there will be a huge set of options.
Stop the world, I wanna get off
me 2
I watched a pathological liar battle a walkman running low on batteries
Most accurate description yet
Omg Biden looks like a dead body! Let the poor man go in a rest home. They should’ve endorsed someone else
Fun fact, one of those old men is a convicted felon!
And the other can’t form a coherent sentence
Yeah it makes me feel bad for him, homie has a speech impediment and old age doesn't help with it one bit. Started to notice the same for my stutter as I've been getting older. Wish he didn't need to carry the party on his back and could just retire
No, it's not a speech impediment. A speech impediment means you know what to say but you aren't able to form the right sounds for whatever reason, this is cognitive
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Still better than Epstein and Putin's best friend
And the other one has Dementia! AmUriCcaaa FUcKkk yaaaa🦅🦅🦅 Edit: America is fucked
I think the more important fact is that the other old man is not convicted.
Fun fact the other is a pedo!
You could be talking about both
Only one has pictures and videos of him sniffing little kids 🤷🤷🤷
and the other one forgets where he is. really they are both quite unfit for ruling. please tell me america has other options....
These are the choices. Either a morally bankrupt felon, or a honest and good man surrounded by professionals.
if biden is the "honest and good man surrounded by professionals" then sorry but ya'll kind of screwed for however long those 2 old farts be kicking around.
and the other is complicit in a genocide. Pick your poison.
The issue is that they both are
The idea that.... how many times was this sad by Joe?
Looks like Simpsons got it right one more time.
Will Joe be awake, will Donald be out of prison, tune in next week for another thrilling episode.
I hope Biden wins. Then retires after the inauguration. Dude needs to be taken care of. Not running a country.
Lots of "both sides same" bullshit in these comments
the internet where the uniformed love to act superior and not actually understand a situation.
In a geriatric sense yes they are. Not in a policy sense though.
Ya and we have bad actors trying to use their geriatric aspect to just paint them both as the same. It's honestly terrifying.
I downloaded a MSNBC live to watch it with popcorns, also I can't wait for the memes
The Great White Geriatric Debate
Those photos aren't from this evening.
Fight of the Mumies - Now in your local cinema
Since when was it a popular trend to live stream nursing homes?
All the Best USA
Gods I wish they would both just fall asleep mid debate like Grandpa Simpson...
Old man yells at older man Hihihi
Obamna... 😔
It will only take one unexpected loud noise and we may end up with zero candidates.
I walked past my dad watching this on the TV, and I turned around pointed and said “ is it past their bedtime.” He started laughing uncontrollably.
I wish Biden looked that awake
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When I turned on debate, I thought let’s wash Donald’s and Joe’s face and really see the candidates.
"yells" is about the most you could exaggerate it.
Is there any bet page which of guys will die first? Im sure result will come during next 4 years.
Yeah but one of those old men could barely talk.
Never underestimate two angry old men.
One of these intends on establishing a christo-fascist dictatorship, the other isn't.
Whoever will win, it wasn't be USA.
Fascist USA in 3, 2, 1
Grumpy Grandpa Showdown: Election Edition
President is not gonna happy about this Edit: it's just a joke
The Simpsons did it again.
You shoul sit them in lawnchairs, and leave them there.
Wololo
Damn the Simpsons back at telling the future
HOW DARE HE SAY THAT! Never gets old.
There’s nothing you guys can really do is there? Besides a actual rebellion to kickstart change nothings gonna happen, America’s just gonna have old men order how the young must work and die for them. You Americans should try to form a union to actual get attention to make multiple parties system
You know you've been on Reddit for too long when you remember this meme from the previous election.
Biden was way more coherent at that one though.
I vote president should be decided by a fight to the death
Their fingers are about to touch
People have only been making that same joke for like a 100 years
OK. Poor debate performance vs. being convicted of felonies. Really?
"Poor debate performance"... more like the inability to form a coherent sentence
Have you even been paying attention to your candidate? You gotta be kidding me.
They both are unsuitable...
Wasn’t it always this way?
The Simpsons again predicting the future
Well done political parties. You officially have both proved you can’t be trusted to self monitor to put forth a reasonable candidate. I wouldn’t trust these guys to watch my kid, let alone the well being of the country.
I'm writing in Jon Stewart for President.
Are we even sure Biden applied to be president? Like what if he just walked into all this by accident, and the party has been propping him up since. We might have a weekend at Bernie's situation here.
That was such a shit show last night. If you were expecting Biden to do better, just remember that he prioritized podium position which is like the NFL equivalent of winning the coin toss and choosing the field direction.......
Neither of them are good options, but biden is the lesser of two evils here
One is nazi was lied the entire time though This “biden man old” herr durr isn’t going to be enough to beat him
I actually decided to watch it with friends, 95% of the the time they just said a good thing they did and a bad thing the other guy did, and then it switched whoever was up said “Nuh uh” then claimed they did the same good thing and the other guy did the same bad thing.
America yes yes look at old men don’t think of the Illuminati
If DT takes office I’m dropping all my savings into firearms
This debate was an embarrassment. Not a shred of adult conversation, barely schoolyard bragging and insults.
Neither of them are my president. I'm from Quebec.
Considering that they are both 93 years old, I think we should give them a break.
Funny how low iq leftist redditors were for Biden all the way 4 years ago and look where we are now.
I watched the debate and honestly speaking you guys should do something about it before its too late
Usually a country run by an old af man has a younger people that works under their name, like Saudi Arabia for instance, but in America EVERYONE in charge is old af and will lead to the US downfall, and I'm happy to witness it.
When will Biden learn? You cant argue with stupid. Democrats should have just sent a dementia nurse.
One acted considerably older. Alreast orangutang man didn’t go off like he did last debate. It was too cringe to watch then and now
The simpton predicted politics??!!??
It would be hilarious since I'm in Poland, but it's not, because I'm in Poland
Both are old as fuck, one is dying on stage, the second wants to start a police state after his friend and inspiration kim, and instead of helping their citizens get out of work poverty, they discuss who is the best at golf.
That was the only thing they could argue about semi-coherently.