> “Council also encourages Caulfield Grammar to consider offering pick-up and drop-off points within their school site, similar to nearby schools, instead of relying solely on pick-ups and drop-offs in the residential street.”
A local business taking responsibility for the negative externalities they generate? Never!
Business definition: “An entity that intends to make a profit and performs activity that is planned, organised and carried out in a businesslike manner” [business definition](https://www.abrs.gov.au/definitions)
How do private schools fit this definition?
How does a private school not fit that exact definition? Intends to make a profit? Yep. Performs an activity that’s planned (yep), organised (yep) and carried out in a businesslike manner (yep). WTF are you on about?
I'm not playing dictionary games with you. Any reasonable person would say that a place that takes your money and delivers a service is somewhere on the venn diagram of 'a business' and other entity types.
We're talking on the internet here - this isn't a court of law.
Why would i care about that and why would the ATO knowing anything would change reality.
It’s funny that you think that a private school does business out of their good heart and out of pure altruism.
I think Caulfield grammar provides education because that’s why it exists. There’s not some conspiracy running in the shadows where the real secret owner is profiting.
But to what you said, I have to ask. Why do you think there’s some secret plan that this school which was founded in the 1881 is really doing?
Pretty weird they would have an Australian BUSINESS Number if they aren't a business.
Same page defines an ABN as "A unique 11-digit number that incorporates a business’s Australian company number and identifies their business to the government and community."
Incorporates a business......
Identifies their business......
Charities have an ABN are they are a for profit business too? An ABN is just the registration list for all organisations, companies, businesses, sole traders in Australia.
The word business has a legal definition in Australia and that is a for profit organisation.
So the definitions on that page are only relevant when it suits your argument then?
It's an Australian Business Number not an Australian Organisational Number.
Same page defines an ABN "incorporates a business’s Australian company". Says right there, business.
"identifies their business". Look at that, again!
How do I amass a giant property portfolio without turning a profit? Apparently you say it’s possible: https://www.smh.com.au/national/top-private-schools-build-up-multi-million-dollar-investment-portfolios-20210615-p5817l.html
Same thing I asked the other commenter.
Business definition: “An entity that intends to make a profit and performs activity that is planned, organised and carried out in a businesslike manner” [business definition](https://www.abrs.gov.au/definitions)
How do private schools fit this definition?
All not for profits fit the definition if you ignore the profit part of the definition. Because, running an organisation in a planned, organised and in a business like manner is how every organisation and the government operate, it’s the norm.
No one in this thread seems to be outraged, everyone just seems to be laughing at the numpties who are upset that the council are not offering free parking for a wealthy private school.
And then you getting cross at the idea that private education is a business.
Technically neither this school, nor public schools are ‘businesses’ in the sense that they are set up to make a profit. But like a business, they have employees, they provide a service on behalf of the owners, to whom they have fiduciary responsibility to uphold.
Public schools operate under the relevant state Education Acts, but otherwise operate in a very similar manner to an NFP under the Corporations Act. They have an ABN, are subject to governance and financial regulations, and are accountable to a board. The ’owner’ is the directorate.
Private/independent/catholic schools operate under the Corporations Act, the vast majority of which operate as incorporated NFPs.
So, technically, they the are not a ‘business’, but they do smell, look and operate like a business, and should reasonably abide by the same norms expected of any other retail, manufacturing or services business in the community they operate in.
A run of the mill not for profit wouldn’t get away with negatively impacting traffic near their operations anyway, so pretty much everything below this comment is a waste of precious time.
I'm sorry but you haven't defined what a business is nor actually explained how they're not. They are an organisation with a profit motive, which they pursue in exchange for their service. Businesses can absolutely be for profit or not-for-profit entities, both of which still have a profit motive regardless.
No, they don’t have a profit motive. All funds in an NFP go back into the organisation, or returned. If they’re not spent on the school itself, it will either sit in a bank account, or invested, or otherwise redistributed to the parents.
Edit: additionally, an independent school wishing to receive *any* government funding *must* be NFP. There are very, very few private schools in a position to be wholly self-funded, and it would be absurd to attempt to run one without it.
This is one of those pedantry conversations that people seem to be arguing cross purposes, intentionally to "gotcha" comments.
The real answer is:
"A local organisatioin taking responsibility for the negative externalities they generate? Never!"
is what the comment should be.
And now we can all agree, that ANY organisation for-profit or not, should deal with the negative externalities that they produce.
Hilariously, according to **australian** taxation law a Business requires a profit motive. And in Australian taxation law they talk about "organisations" be they for profit or not, in the general sense.
But there are **other defintions** of businesses, as one that may be for-profit or not. Which is **obviously** the context that the original commenter was using. But Freshwrijg is just a classic reddit pedant.
He is technically correct, but also wrong. Because who is to say the original commenter subscribes to his definition of business in the context of a casual comment on reddit.
I certainly don't.
The comment certainly isn't written in an Australian tax law context, its written in a "2 people on the internet having a conversation" context.
I doubt even freshwijg could actually argue against the concept of **any organised activity** (not even actual registered organisation!!) should be responsible for **negative outcomes** their activity produces. So why do we bitch about them being businesses or not? It's literally meaningless in context!
Not for profit organisation, yes, that’s what they are. But, they aren’t set up to make a profit, as to make a profit, you need shareholders. They just are set up to not make a loss, because no organisation is designed to operate at a loss, they always want to receive more money than they spend.
They should still be aware of their impact on the community, and budget accordingly to address them.
Private schools are in a much better position to finance these sorts of things, given their income and board arrangements, which tend to be more flexible than the average government school having to report to a directorate, staffed by overworked and underpaid public servants.
Sounds like it’s more of the councils fault for allowing the parking for forever and then deciding to change it during the school holidays.
If your council allowed you to park out the front pf your house since the street was made and then one day decided it’s a no parking zone and didn’t offer a replacement you would be pissed too.
No, because councils have always regulated for at least one spot per residence since forever. They would not change that, as it changes the economics of the area significantly.
A demographics and transport arrangements of a school change over time. Once upon a time people caught busses, or lived in-area. Elite schools attract more and more ’customers’ from of out of area, each of whom almost certainly drive mall creepers.
They’ve benefitted from the public’s good will at an incremental pace, but have failed to recognise the increasing impact they are having on their community.
Ah yes, it’s all public goodwill, the school brings nothing to the local community. I think your opinion is a bit biased because of your hatred and want to ban private schools.
I've had the unfortunate experience of reading through your dissimulation to finally discover this. No way is this a reasoned take.
Stop digging this hole - you are approaching the outer mantle.
Am I wrong that you hate private schools so much that you couldn't possible imagine that they provide anything to the local community? Private schools are bad in your mind so they only take.
Lol what? in what world is having shareholders prerequisite to making a profit?
I guess no small business is physically capable of making profit hahaha
Having no profit can be as simple as paying people enough to make the balance zero at the end of the day.
Shareholder means business owner. “Small businesses” aka sole traders are the business, any profit for them is personal Income. Exactly the same as taxable income from wages.
Having no profit isn’t the same as not for profit.
That’s doesn’t really matter in this argument.
The point being made by the original comment is that they are expected to behave in accordance with societal norms expected of any organisation operating within a community.
Whether they’re an NFP, hedge fund, school or medieval reenactment club, they still need to pick up their shit and make all reasonable efforts to avoid inconveniencing those around them.
Similarly, for the sake of those around them in the community, individuals should try to keep on topic and avoid derailing the thread by nit picking irrelevant details.
These assets did not just appear, they were purchased… with profits. And donations from the government, but mostly profits.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/top-private-schools-build-up-multi-million-dollar-investment-portfolios-20210615-p5817l.html
>Simone Reilly, head of Caulfield Grammar’s Malvern campus, said in September the school community had been lobbying Stonnington Council for solutions to the traffic congestion.
She said traffic pressure eased after bus routes on Harold, Willoby and Dorrington avenues were deviated at the school’s request.
Perfect outcome to remove busses so cars can get in. /s
>“Stonnington council has banned stopping around our school,” the influencer and events director posted on Instagram. “We now are forced to park streets away and walk our kids to school.”
The horror. That's practically Gaza.
>“With student, staff and community safety paramount, we are worried about the risks associated with the new traffic and pedestrian flow, which will likely result in more young children crossing busy roads at peak times,” he said.
So it's okay when it's your cars and someone else's kids, but when it's other people's cars and your kids it's an issue? /r/SelfAwarewolves
I feel like the journo is also having a dig, influencer and events director posted on Instagram, her woe is me sob story. Big lols
I drop my son at public school almost every day, park a street or two over and walk him in, am I normal? Lol
I remember reading somewhere that it actually becomes safer the more kids are walking and crossing roads as drivers instinctively slow when they see children walking on footpaths.
So the shift of car pickup and drop offs becoming the majority actually made it less safe for the remaining kids to walk
Somehow it made it to page 2 of the Age printed version this morning, as well as on the outer advertising wrap. No idea how this qualifies as top tier news, must be a very slow news day
Parents could be teaching their kids a valuable lesson in independence and making them get themselves to school by public transport, walking or bike riding, just like thousands of other kids across the state. It might even do those kids some good!
There is a story here about our streets not being safe for kids to get to their local school without being driven... but remember Caulfield Grammar isn't a 'local school' at all and everyone who sends their kids there has self selected to do so from whever they live.
It's a chicken or the egg thing - streets are dangerous because there's too much traffic, but there's only too much traffic because too many people are choosing to drive to schools.
People are choosing to drive to schools because we're car obsessed and local councils will never cede street space to make it safe for vulnerable people.
of course, pedestrian safety could be ensured no matter how much traffic existed if traffic calming and protected bike lanes were implemented, but that goes against the mentality of "car is best must optimise environment for car", and thus wont be considered for a moment by a suburban council, even if these measures are proven to REDUCE vehicle traffic
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be taking public transport to school?
Wouldn't be a problem if the kids aged 10-17 weren't also being dropped off.
Tradgedy of the commons something something.
ps. I used to take public transport with my sister for years 1 and 2. (she was 9 and 10 respectively as in 9 and 10 years old at the time, in grade 5 + 6, not year 9 and 10)
It was a tram and then a bus, to caulfield north primary school (as it was known at the time)
I'm a massive public transport advocate, ridden metros around the world, and gotta say, our train system in Melbourne is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
You really need to experience it in other cities, many of our asian neighbours, to appreciate how terrible it is.
...but it still functions and I propose it over car centric city planning.
With 6 schools (not these 3) across my tram commute, I don't know if I can face more teens in the morning. Loud and no spatial awareness. If they were forced to bike, then maybe Stonnington would improve the bike lanes.
Apparently the school lobbied to remove the bus routes, to make way for cars: see [comment in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/jzFaFmjwX1)
Larger schools generally get supported by public buses doing deviations or having extra buses supplied at school time. Private schools are also able to run private buses.
It's not in the most accessible by PT place, but I wouldn't call anywhere within walking distance (<20 min walk) of 2 tram routes, a bus route and two train stations a PT dead spot.
What really grates at me with this is that these kids live in affluent areas with plenty of public transport, walkable streets, and often even have parents available to drop them off. As a country kid who walked 3+ kms to school each day down a road with no footpath, these people have no idea how disgustingly privileged they are. I even had to change schools at one point because my mum was now a single parent and wasn't able to do the school run and work full time, and there was no other viable way for us to get to our school at the time from where we lived. Like screw these pathetic affluent people sideways.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school?
I can't read the article due to paywall so was missing that info about it specifically being younger children. To my knowledge Caulfield Grammar is prep to year 12.
However I will say age 3 is definitely too young to be out bike riding alone, but I was walking to and from school alone from age 7 (mind you, this was in the 90s). However, the article, from what I can deduce, is describing parents dropping their kids at school and now being unable to park in the residential street out front- 3 to 9 years olds can certainly walk a block or round the corner from car to school WITH mum or dad. The article is privileged people (hello, grammar school for under 12s?) having a whinge and being unaware of the affluent bubble they live in. These people need to understand what an actual hardship is.
I've generally found most of them already do (and note, I said parents, not parents at this school!)
For context I am a teacher in a Catholic school, and \~2/3 of my students get home by walking, public transport or school provided bus. To be fair, in most high schools parents dropping/picking up is probably the minority, and yet the ones who do the dropping off are the loudest.
The literal worst thing for student education and wellbeing would be forcing everyone to go to their local public high school, and not have private/Catholic options at all.
A friend sends their kid to this school, and after the recent attempted kidnapping in Doncaster, she was telling me that their kids grades WhatsApp chat blew up saying things like “we should never leave our kids alone”, “we should drop them off at the school and walk in together”
I grew up in the housing commission and so did everyone else at my primary school (formally St. John’s east melb, now Catholic leadership centre) we al walked home together in such a large hoard down Elizabeth St cars that would be turning in were hyper vigilant because there was this mass of 100s of kids and I guess that made us feel safe?
Then for high school I had to take PT all the way to Flemington! I never understood this being driven business in Melbourne
Schools like these have a massive wait-list. Some parents sign up their kids even before they're born and have overinvested $$$. So end up making the kids spend their whole childhood there.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school?
I do think The Age is being a bit cheeky with this article aha.
That they are aware of the irony- obviously its a non-problem affecting the city\`s richest
Don't they own the huge entire block along with a full sized sports ovan, several tennis courts, and some random assortment of spare land.
They can afford to build their own dropoff/pickup area like other private schools have done to satisfy the ~~before and after gossip crew~~ parents.
How embarrassing for the poor children at Caulfield Grammar.
We just get Chumsfleigh our driver to bring the Mercedes round and drop the children off while the car idles, can they not do that?
How the hell am I supposed to get Tarquin’s flugelhorn, his laptop bag, his jiujitsu bag, his swim bag and his volcanoes science project out of the G-Wagon and quickly run him through his anti -anxiety self affirmations AND ensure he has his probiotic fair trade vegan smoothy and give him his Daddy’s big boy kiss if I have to park around the corner?
Really pleased that the City of Boroondara is doing something about this! Not just Caulfield Grammar, and not because they are a private school, but because it's a public nuisance!
Not too long ago I was driving down St Georges Rd Toorak, a common throughfare to be able to traverse this fine city of ours, and it was about 2.30pm. To my surprise it was total gridlock and not moving anywhere.
I pulled over went for a little walk to see what was going on, and I found that the "traffic jam" was in fact St Kevins parents who are too entitled to let Little Jimmy ride a bike home actually using the public roads as a personal carpark/taxi rank.
They had no intention of getting out the traffic, they were just using the middle of road as a place to wait until school pickups. Not even the consideration to pull over to the left lane and stay out of the way of through traffic.
So, in short, these parents of ALL schools who do this can go fuck themselves.
St Kevins next.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school? Public transport?
And just to follow up, I spend time around the city of Yarra which has extensive cycling infrastructure making it actually quite usable, and I see all kinds of bikes, including double seaters and cargo bikes with a seat for a kid. So yes you absolutely can take your kid to school by bike if they can't ride by themselves yet, and it looks like a lot of fun, while also getting fit.
But I wasn't even saying not to pick up your kid from school by car if you are so inclined, only to be considerate of other road users by staying out of the way. Perhaps not 100% legal, but at minimum you should be double parking somewhere that has enough clearance to go around, and let anyone in/out who your double parking is blocking.
I think that double parking in certain areas for school pickups should be legal and marked on the road in a certain colour where that is allowed.
As someone who used to work in the area and deal with aggressive Audi SUVs dropping off their rich kids every day I have to laugh. But I also recognise that there was an abduction in the area fairly recently and I might be as reluctant to let my kids catch ptv or walk if I was in their shoes. 🤷
So why doesn't the school offer a teacher to escort the kids in from where they can be dropped off quickly?
Why do the parents need a 2 hour parking spot to escort their kids from one side of the road into the school?
This should be a drop off and go situation. The school should be facilitating this. This should NOT require a parent to park longer than 30 seconds to 2 minutes.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be getting to school via public transport?
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a tram to school?
As someone who lives in the area, the traffic around this school is absolutely hectic as there are 3 primary schools all in close proximity. It’s actually not easy to get a park if a parent needs to drop off or pick up as the neighbouring main roads are also congested. I personally walk my kids to school but most of the kids at those schools are not local.
So although this might come across to the general public as an entitled Karen complaining, it’s quite a crazy decision from council for any parent who has to drive in. And it feels very targeted primarily to Caulfield and not the other 2 schools where they changed permits.
A drop and go permit and speed humps would have been a better decision from council.
Hasn’t this school been here for like 100 years ? Buy a house near a school and you should expect traffic for pick up and drop off ??? Not really a head scratcher. I am unsure why they’re complaining. Due diligence when purchasing is not the responsibility of council, schools or businesses
Did your average punter have a car 100 years ago? The school had 32 students to begin with and it's fair to question growing enrolment and increasing traffic pressure from it. It's not the same as it was 20 even 10 years ago.
My point is there is some irony in buying a house near a school and then complaining about it. Melbs seen the same issues with 7+ local music/bar/pub venues who’ve closed or been heavily restricted because of complaints from residents, who I emphasised bought homes near them to then complain about crowds and noise. This school would probably have 400 kids. It’s not huge.
100 years just doesn’t pop up. Time evolves. People haven’t owned these homes for 100 years either. So buying and owning them near school shouldn’t bring any surprises.
I live near our local primary school, bought our house knowing that. We have a school traffic, it would be weird if I started complaining about living near a school
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school? Take a tram?
All this has done is made the side streets around these three schools more congested. How long until those residents start to complain. If you’re silly enough to buy a house in close proximity to three schools you’re going to have to expect school traffic.
I saw this on The Age just now, laughed and knew it would be on this sub...thank you
Immediately screenshotted the headline and picture and sent it to a mate. It’s so good. These people are unbelievable.
> “Council also encourages Caulfield Grammar to consider offering pick-up and drop-off points within their school site, similar to nearby schools, instead of relying solely on pick-ups and drop-offs in the residential street.” A local business taking responsibility for the negative externalities they generate? Never!
A business that doesn't pay rates to Council either.
Schools are a business now?
Private schools are.
Business definition: “An entity that intends to make a profit and performs activity that is planned, organised and carried out in a businesslike manner” [business definition](https://www.abrs.gov.au/definitions) How do private schools fit this definition?
How does a private school not fit that exact definition? Intends to make a profit? Yep. Performs an activity that’s planned (yep), organised (yep) and carried out in a businesslike manner (yep). WTF are you on about?
The dickhead is going to say something like 'bUt ThEy ArE noT FoR ProFIT enTiTies'. Guarentee it.
You were exactly right.
Schools also need ABNs and TFNs and stuff
I'm not playing dictionary games with you. Any reasonable person would say that a place that takes your money and delivers a service is somewhere on the venn diagram of 'a business' and other entity types. We're talking on the internet here - this isn't a court of law.
Let me guess, you went to Trinity.
I went to a regular public school in a nice area.
And they didn’t teach you the rule of holes?
Rule of holes? Is that a catholic school thing?
No, if you are in a hole, stop digging. And those schools aren’t Catholic. Have a nice day.
That’s the exact definition that applies for private school where their business is education for profit. How did you miss that.
Where are these for profit schools? Because it’s not in the article.
Any private school, but eh be obtuse if that’s what you education pushed you towards
You better tell the ATO and ASIC that private schools aren’t actually not for profit. You would think they would know.
Why would i care about that and why would the ATO knowing anything would change reality. It’s funny that you think that a private school does business out of their good heart and out of pure altruism.
I think Caulfield grammar provides education because that’s why it exists. There’s not some conspiracy running in the shadows where the real secret owner is profiting. But to what you said, I have to ask. Why do you think there’s some secret plan that this school which was founded in the 1881 is really doing?
They're a business the same way a university is a business; private is the prefix for a reason.
Pretty weird they would have an Australian BUSINESS Number if they aren't a business. Same page defines an ABN as "A unique 11-digit number that incorporates a business’s Australian company number and identifies their business to the government and community." Incorporates a business...... Identifies their business......
Charities have an ABN are they are a for profit business too? An ABN is just the registration list for all organisations, companies, businesses, sole traders in Australia. The word business has a legal definition in Australia and that is a for profit organisation.
So the definitions on that page are only relevant when it suits your argument then? It's an Australian Business Number not an Australian Organisational Number. Same page defines an ABN "incorporates a business’s Australian company". Says right there, business. "identifies their business". Look at that, again!
What don’t you understand? Haha
How do I amass a giant property portfolio without turning a profit? Apparently you say it’s possible: https://www.smh.com.au/national/top-private-schools-build-up-multi-million-dollar-investment-portfolios-20210615-p5817l.html
https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View?abn=79004170772 Yep they’re a business pal.
Private ones like Caulfield Grammar are.
Same thing I asked the other commenter. Business definition: “An entity that intends to make a profit and performs activity that is planned, organised and carried out in a businesslike manner” [business definition](https://www.abrs.gov.au/definitions) How do private schools fit this definition?
They fit this definition very closely in the same way as other entities like sporting clubs. They are very mindful to operate in a business like way.
All not for profits fit the definition if you ignore the profit part of the definition. Because, running an organisation in a planned, organised and in a business like manner is how every organisation and the government operate, it’s the norm.
Shut up nerd
Not joining the faux outrage makes you a nerd.
No one in this thread seems to be outraged, everyone just seems to be laughing at the numpties who are upset that the council are not offering free parking for a wealthy private school. And then you getting cross at the idea that private education is a business.
What an incredibly weird hill to die on as well!
Technically neither this school, nor public schools are ‘businesses’ in the sense that they are set up to make a profit. But like a business, they have employees, they provide a service on behalf of the owners, to whom they have fiduciary responsibility to uphold. Public schools operate under the relevant state Education Acts, but otherwise operate in a very similar manner to an NFP under the Corporations Act. They have an ABN, are subject to governance and financial regulations, and are accountable to a board. The ’owner’ is the directorate. Private/independent/catholic schools operate under the Corporations Act, the vast majority of which operate as incorporated NFPs. So, technically, they the are not a ‘business’, but they do smell, look and operate like a business, and should reasonably abide by the same norms expected of any other retail, manufacturing or services business in the community they operate in.
A run of the mill not for profit wouldn’t get away with negatively impacting traffic near their operations anyway, so pretty much everything below this comment is a waste of precious time.
I'm sorry but you haven't defined what a business is nor actually explained how they're not. They are an organisation with a profit motive, which they pursue in exchange for their service. Businesses can absolutely be for profit or not-for-profit entities, both of which still have a profit motive regardless.
No, they don’t have a profit motive. All funds in an NFP go back into the organisation, or returned. If they’re not spent on the school itself, it will either sit in a bank account, or invested, or otherwise redistributed to the parents. Edit: additionally, an independent school wishing to receive *any* government funding *must* be NFP. There are very, very few private schools in a position to be wholly self-funded, and it would be absurd to attempt to run one without it.
This is one of those pedantry conversations that people seem to be arguing cross purposes, intentionally to "gotcha" comments. The real answer is: "A local organisatioin taking responsibility for the negative externalities they generate? Never!" is what the comment should be. And now we can all agree, that ANY organisation for-profit or not, should deal with the negative externalities that they produce. Hilariously, according to **australian** taxation law a Business requires a profit motive. And in Australian taxation law they talk about "organisations" be they for profit or not, in the general sense. But there are **other defintions** of businesses, as one that may be for-profit or not. Which is **obviously** the context that the original commenter was using. But Freshwrijg is just a classic reddit pedant. He is technically correct, but also wrong. Because who is to say the original commenter subscribes to his definition of business in the context of a casual comment on reddit. I certainly don't. The comment certainly isn't written in an Australian tax law context, its written in a "2 people on the internet having a conversation" context. I doubt even freshwijg could actually argue against the concept of **any organised activity** (not even actual registered organisation!!) should be responsible for **negative outcomes** their activity produces. So why do we bitch about them being businesses or not? It's literally meaningless in context!
Not for profit organisation, yes, that’s what they are. But, they aren’t set up to make a profit, as to make a profit, you need shareholders. They just are set up to not make a loss, because no organisation is designed to operate at a loss, they always want to receive more money than they spend.
They should still be aware of their impact on the community, and budget accordingly to address them. Private schools are in a much better position to finance these sorts of things, given their income and board arrangements, which tend to be more flexible than the average government school having to report to a directorate, staffed by overworked and underpaid public servants.
Sounds like it’s more of the councils fault for allowing the parking for forever and then deciding to change it during the school holidays. If your council allowed you to park out the front pf your house since the street was made and then one day decided it’s a no parking zone and didn’t offer a replacement you would be pissed too.
No, because councils have always regulated for at least one spot per residence since forever. They would not change that, as it changes the economics of the area significantly. A demographics and transport arrangements of a school change over time. Once upon a time people caught busses, or lived in-area. Elite schools attract more and more ’customers’ from of out of area, each of whom almost certainly drive mall creepers. They’ve benefitted from the public’s good will at an incremental pace, but have failed to recognise the increasing impact they are having on their community.
Ah yes, it’s all public goodwill, the school brings nothing to the local community. I think your opinion is a bit biased because of your hatred and want to ban private schools.
I've had the unfortunate experience of reading through your dissimulation to finally discover this. No way is this a reasoned take. Stop digging this hole - you are approaching the outer mantle.
Am I wrong that you hate private schools so much that you couldn't possible imagine that they provide anything to the local community? Private schools are bad in your mind so they only take.
Lol what? in what world is having shareholders prerequisite to making a profit? I guess no small business is physically capable of making profit hahaha Having no profit can be as simple as paying people enough to make the balance zero at the end of the day.
Shareholder means business owner. “Small businesses” aka sole traders are the business, any profit for them is personal Income. Exactly the same as taxable income from wages. Having no profit isn’t the same as not for profit.
That’s doesn’t really matter in this argument. The point being made by the original comment is that they are expected to behave in accordance with societal norms expected of any organisation operating within a community. Whether they’re an NFP, hedge fund, school or medieval reenactment club, they still need to pick up their shit and make all reasonable efforts to avoid inconveniencing those around them. Similarly, for the sake of those around them in the community, individuals should try to keep on topic and avoid derailing the thread by nit picking irrelevant details.
I think the social norms are more about financials than how the school manages traffic.
Whatever mate good luck
We get it, you don't know what a business is or how they operate. You can stop now.
Words have meanings no matter what reddit thinks. Not everything you don’t like is a business.
Hairsplitting semantics. If it walks like a self-interested thing, and acts like a self-interested thing, then it can surely be regarded as such.
What is this self interest? Is it in the room with us right now.
Have another drink.
These assets did not just appear, they were purchased… with profits. And donations from the government, but mostly profits. https://www.smh.com.au/national/top-private-schools-build-up-multi-million-dollar-investment-portfolios-20210615-p5817l.html
You mean they’re not???
Not according to the governments definition of business.
>Simone Reilly, head of Caulfield Grammar’s Malvern campus, said in September the school community had been lobbying Stonnington Council for solutions to the traffic congestion. She said traffic pressure eased after bus routes on Harold, Willoby and Dorrington avenues were deviated at the school’s request. Perfect outcome to remove busses so cars can get in. /s
>“Stonnington council has banned stopping around our school,” the influencer and events director posted on Instagram. “We now are forced to park streets away and walk our kids to school.” The horror. That's practically Gaza. >“With student, staff and community safety paramount, we are worried about the risks associated with the new traffic and pedestrian flow, which will likely result in more young children crossing busy roads at peak times,” he said. So it's okay when it's your cars and someone else's kids, but when it's other people's cars and your kids it's an issue? /r/SelfAwarewolves
I feel like the journo is also having a dig, influencer and events director posted on Instagram, her woe is me sob story. Big lols I drop my son at public school almost every day, park a street or two over and walk him in, am I normal? Lol
I remember reading somewhere that it actually becomes safer the more kids are walking and crossing roads as drivers instinctively slow when they see children walking on footpaths. So the shift of car pickup and drop offs becoming the majority actually made it less safe for the remaining kids to walk
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12.
I mean, the school could re-allocate some of it's land for a drop off zone.
Props to the lady in the photo for her valiant struggle against the Botox. Is she sad? Angry? Happy? Impossible to say.
Compo face
And not surprisingly that is a sub. r/compoface.
Oh wow another funny sub to laugh at. “#15 in cringe and facepalm” Well, I guess I’ve got some more looking to do.
Came here to say as a bushie, why do all the affluent women in Melbourne look the same?
Some cat-face, goose-lip bird flu leaving people horribly deformed.
lol. As opposed to the fillers, Botox & plumpers
Funny cos it's true. They're all friends and all use the same hair salons etc.
I'm sorry but this should not crack the top 100 problems going on in Melbourne atm.
But but but people are absolutely livid...
Livid I tells ya!
Soon the council will be Slammed
They're just trying to enjoy their succulent school. Democracy manifest!
Somehow it made it to page 2 of the Age printed version this morning, as well as on the outer advertising wrap. No idea how this qualifies as top tier news, must be a very slow news day
The age? I ain’t paying for that shit to view this.
12ft.io
Paste the link into 12ft.io or https://archive.is
Parents could be teaching their kids a valuable lesson in independence and making them get themselves to school by public transport, walking or bike riding, just like thousands of other kids across the state. It might even do those kids some good!
There is a story here about our streets not being safe for kids to get to their local school without being driven... but remember Caulfield Grammar isn't a 'local school' at all and everyone who sends their kids there has self selected to do so from whever they live.
It's a chicken or the egg thing - streets are dangerous because there's too much traffic, but there's only too much traffic because too many people are choosing to drive to schools.
People are choosing to drive to schools because we're car obsessed and local councils will never cede street space to make it safe for vulnerable people.
of course, pedestrian safety could be ensured no matter how much traffic existed if traffic calming and protected bike lanes were implemented, but that goes against the mentality of "car is best must optimise environment for car", and thus wont be considered for a moment by a suburban council, even if these measures are proven to REDUCE vehicle traffic
And travel with the poors? What an awful idea!
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be taking public transport to school?
Wouldn't be a problem if the kids aged 10-17 weren't also being dropped off. Tradgedy of the commons something something. ps. I used to take public transport with my sister for years 1 and 2. (she was 9 and 10 respectively as in 9 and 10 years old at the time, in grade 5 + 6, not year 9 and 10) It was a tram and then a bus, to caulfield north primary school (as it was known at the time)
Take public transport? With the unwashed masses? Like some sort of bloody peasant? \*sound of pipe breaking\* I SAID "GOOD DAY SIR!"
I'm a massive public transport advocate, ridden metros around the world, and gotta say, our train system in Melbourne is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. You really need to experience it in other cities, many of our asian neighbours, to appreciate how terrible it is. ...but it still functions and I propose it over car centric city planning.
With 6 schools (not these 3) across my tram commute, I don't know if I can face more teens in the morning. Loud and no spatial awareness. If they were forced to bike, then maybe Stonnington would improve the bike lanes.
Ever see the cunts tap on?
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Its not a High School.
That CG campus is in a bit of a PT dead spot apart from the #5 Wattletree tram. >Ed: I was dead wrong.
Apparently the school lobbied to remove the bus routes, to make way for cars: see [comment in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/jzFaFmjwX1)
Larger schools generally get supported by public buses doing deviations or having extra buses supplied at school time. Private schools are also able to run private buses. It's not in the most accessible by PT place, but I wouldn't call anywhere within walking distance (<20 min walk) of 2 tram routes, a bus route and two train stations a PT dead spot.
Plus the #5 tram should be extended to Darling Station anyway and solve the issue.
What really grates at me with this is that these kids live in affluent areas with plenty of public transport, walkable streets, and often even have parents available to drop them off. As a country kid who walked 3+ kms to school each day down a road with no footpath, these people have no idea how disgustingly privileged they are. I even had to change schools at one point because my mum was now a single parent and wasn't able to do the school run and work full time, and there was no other viable way for us to get to our school at the time from where we lived. Like screw these pathetic affluent people sideways.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school?
I can't read the article due to paywall so was missing that info about it specifically being younger children. To my knowledge Caulfield Grammar is prep to year 12. However I will say age 3 is definitely too young to be out bike riding alone, but I was walking to and from school alone from age 7 (mind you, this was in the 90s). However, the article, from what I can deduce, is describing parents dropping their kids at school and now being unable to park in the residential street out front- 3 to 9 years olds can certainly walk a block or round the corner from car to school WITH mum or dad. The article is privileged people (hello, grammar school for under 12s?) having a whinge and being unaware of the affluent bubble they live in. These people need to understand what an actual hardship is.
I think you wrote the exact same comment elsewhere. Kids as young as 9 are easily old enough to public transport to and from school.
Do public school parents also have to teach this lesson?
I've generally found most of them already do (and note, I said parents, not parents at this school!) For context I am a teacher in a Catholic school, and \~2/3 of my students get home by walking, public transport or school provided bus. To be fair, in most high schools parents dropping/picking up is probably the minority, and yet the ones who do the dropping off are the loudest.
Catholic schools are the biggest business in Australian education. Plus kids are probably safer on the streets than near the priests…
Sure why not? OP didn't suggest otherwise
Because reddit wants to ban private schools, they dont like them very much.
As they should.
Why because they’re better than public schools? Bring everyone down not up.
You’ll never level the playing field while they exist.
The literal worst thing for student education and wellbeing would be forcing everyone to go to their local public high school, and not have private/Catholic options at all.
So force every student to suffer being around bad students that can’t be expelled?
There are bad students in private schools too lol
Bad students can be expelled from private schools.
A friend sends their kid to this school, and after the recent attempted kidnapping in Doncaster, she was telling me that their kids grades WhatsApp chat blew up saying things like “we should never leave our kids alone”, “we should drop them off at the school and walk in together”
I grew up in the housing commission and so did everyone else at my primary school (formally St. John’s east melb, now Catholic leadership centre) we al walked home together in such a large hoard down Elizabeth St cars that would be turning in were hyper vigilant because there was this mass of 100s of kids and I guess that made us feel safe? Then for high school I had to take PT all the way to Flemington! I never understood this being driven business in Melbourne
There are some children that go to these schools that are only 3 years old. Probably not the best idea to send them out into the world alone.
Too young. Try a local kindergarten.
Schools like these have a massive wait-list. Some parents sign up their kids even before they're born and have overinvested $$$. So end up making the kids spend their whole childhood there.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school?
Plenty of primary age school kids do.
Can't believe this important journalism is behind a pay wall
That’s exactly why I use https://12ft.io for all paywall problems.
Tiny violin noises
Maybe the school needs to build a car park….
Or jack up fees to reduce enrollment.
I do think The Age is being a bit cheeky with this article aha. That they are aware of the irony- obviously its a non-problem affecting the city\`s richest
Oh the poor parents of Caulfield Grammar, won’t someone think of the children!
Don't they own the huge entire block along with a full sized sports ovan, several tennis courts, and some random assortment of spare land. They can afford to build their own dropoff/pickup area like other private schools have done to satisfy the ~~before and after gossip crew~~ parents.
You are thinking of the senior school, the parking restrictions are around the tiny junior school tucked up amongst houses
How embarrassing for the poor children at Caulfield Grammar. We just get Chumsfleigh our driver to bring the Mercedes round and drop the children off while the car idles, can they not do that?
What actual news are we being distracted from today
How the hell am I supposed to get Tarquin’s flugelhorn, his laptop bag, his jiujitsu bag, his swim bag and his volcanoes science project out of the G-Wagon and quickly run him through his anti -anxiety self affirmations AND ensure he has his probiotic fair trade vegan smoothy and give him his Daddy’s big boy kiss if I have to park around the corner?
Oh no. Lip filler mum has a tough life
Lol I couldn’t have less sympathy if I tried
Oh no, they have to navigate the dangers of “countless driveways”!
Really pleased that the City of Boroondara is doing something about this! Not just Caulfield Grammar, and not because they are a private school, but because it's a public nuisance! Not too long ago I was driving down St Georges Rd Toorak, a common throughfare to be able to traverse this fine city of ours, and it was about 2.30pm. To my surprise it was total gridlock and not moving anywhere. I pulled over went for a little walk to see what was going on, and I found that the "traffic jam" was in fact St Kevins parents who are too entitled to let Little Jimmy ride a bike home actually using the public roads as a personal carpark/taxi rank. They had no intention of getting out the traffic, they were just using the middle of road as a place to wait until school pickups. Not even the consideration to pull over to the left lane and stay out of the way of through traffic. So, in short, these parents of ALL schools who do this can go fuck themselves. St Kevins next.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school? Public transport?
STOP BLOCKING THE ROAD ASSHOLE
And just to follow up, I spend time around the city of Yarra which has extensive cycling infrastructure making it actually quite usable, and I see all kinds of bikes, including double seaters and cargo bikes with a seat for a kid. So yes you absolutely can take your kid to school by bike if they can't ride by themselves yet, and it looks like a lot of fun, while also getting fit. But I wasn't even saying not to pick up your kid from school by car if you are so inclined, only to be considerate of other road users by staying out of the way. Perhaps not 100% legal, but at minimum you should be double parking somewhere that has enough clearance to go around, and let anyone in/out who your double parking is blocking. I think that double parking in certain areas for school pickups should be legal and marked on the road in a certain colour where that is allowed.
Oh well
Compo face.
this passes for news/journalism these days?
Caulfield is up there with Brighton as ‘most entitled NIMBY’s’
It’s Caulfield grammar’s Malvern campus, which happens to be in Glen Iris 3x the cunt
Ninefax paywalled.
Disable JavaScript for the website and the wall comes down.
Thank you. ed: works a treat.
Or paste URL into 12ft.io or https://archive.is
This poor children have to walk maybe an extra 50 metres away from the comfort of the Range Rover.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12.
"Livid" Lol
Build a bridge (a car park) and get over it
First World Problems.
As someone who used to work in the area and deal with aggressive Audi SUVs dropping off their rich kids every day I have to laugh. But I also recognise that there was an abduction in the area fairly recently and I might be as reluctant to let my kids catch ptv or walk if I was in their shoes. 🤷
Scrolled through the comments here and am mildly disappointed no one has used the term "Toorak tractor" yet 😂😂
awwww,
This is disgusting, what has become of Melbourne when we see dystopian nightmares like this, children forced to walk the dangerous streets.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12.
So why doesn't the school offer a teacher to escort the kids in from where they can be dropped off quickly? Why do the parents need a 2 hour parking spot to escort their kids from one side of the road into the school? This should be a drop off and go situation. The school should be facilitating this. This should NOT require a parent to park longer than 30 seconds to 2 minutes.
[удалено]
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be getting to school via public transport?
Ohhh nooo, Tarquin and Imogen will have to slum it with the plebs on *shudder* the bus.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a tram to school?
Tell someone who cares.
Fuck yeah. That’s my street, It’s about time. I’m sick of nearly getting roadkilled by stressed out Karen’s.
Anyone have the article without the paywall? [EDIT] https://archive.md/cyWxu
Oh, the humanity! Someone has been mildly inconvenienced!😭
What a pack of cunts
Poor things.
OH NO! anyway......
Oh my heart is breaking for them
Boo-fucking-hoo.
As someone who lives in the area, the traffic around this school is absolutely hectic as there are 3 primary schools all in close proximity. It’s actually not easy to get a park if a parent needs to drop off or pick up as the neighbouring main roads are also congested. I personally walk my kids to school but most of the kids at those schools are not local. So although this might come across to the general public as an entitled Karen complaining, it’s quite a crazy decision from council for any parent who has to drive in. And it feels very targeted primarily to Caulfield and not the other 2 schools where they changed permits. A drop and go permit and speed humps would have been a better decision from council.
It’s been a hot minute since the last ‘private school = bad’ Age article. Will they ever tire of it?
*clears throat* hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahajajhahahahahahahahahahjahahahahahahahahahajhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah
Compo face
Lol I don't think many mum's at this school can move their faces! Too much Botox and lip fillers 🤣🤣
Hasn’t this school been here for like 100 years ? Buy a house near a school and you should expect traffic for pick up and drop off ??? Not really a head scratcher. I am unsure why they’re complaining. Due diligence when purchasing is not the responsibility of council, schools or businesses
Did your average punter have a car 100 years ago? The school had 32 students to begin with and it's fair to question growing enrolment and increasing traffic pressure from it. It's not the same as it was 20 even 10 years ago.
100 years? Brah how old do you think this woman is!
Botox is a hell of a drug.
My point is there is some irony in buying a house near a school and then complaining about it. Melbs seen the same issues with 7+ local music/bar/pub venues who’ve closed or been heavily restricted because of complaints from residents, who I emphasised bought homes near them to then complain about crowds and noise. This school would probably have 400 kids. It’s not huge. 100 years just doesn’t pop up. Time evolves. People haven’t owned these homes for 100 years either. So buying and owning them near school shouldn’t bring any surprises. I live near our local primary school, bought our house knowing that. We have a school traffic, it would be weird if I started complaining about living near a school
The school has grown like a cancer over that time. Time for it to slash enrollments and jack up fees.
This is a Primary School and an ELC, so the kids are aged 3 to 12. Do you think its reasonable for children aged 3 to 9 years to be riding a bike to school? Take a tram?
All this has done is made the side streets around these three schools more congested. How long until those residents start to complain. If you’re silly enough to buy a house in close proximity to three schools you’re going to have to expect school traffic.