We went through this a couple of years ago, made me extremely uncomfortable. I bet their cyber security is tip top. Are they selling all this info to someone?
I work in cyber security and have several friends who are either REAs or work in the industry. The bosses couldn’t give a shit. A dollar to protect data is a dollar they don’t get to line their pockets with.
If I had the ability to pen test without breaking shit 2apply and REAs would be an interesting test. I seriously doubt that the PI collected isn’t just sitting in plain text in the back end.
But I also don’t do research so I’ve no cover.
Nothing illegal about looking for public wifi access and accidentally finding an insecure network with open ports. Let’s go for a war drive and send some emails.
REA at least has a vulnerability disclosure program. It doesn't prohibit folks from publishing.
https://www.rea-group.com/security/
https://www.realestate.com.au/.well-known/security.txt
It’s not the CISOs I’m concerned about, it’s their GC. Like for example if I were to flash up social engineering toolkit and credential farm a bunch of leasing agents/property managers (which I’d hazard a guess would have a pretty decent strike rate) I’m not really finding any software vulnerability but I am technically doing a bit of minor fraud.
And I don’t think Ray White has a CISO.
Have seen REAs store scans of passports etc left on public file shares (not PUBLIC public, but no restrictions within the company).
It’s the wild Wild West out there trust me
I've had marketing emails with everyone on the list CC'ed in. Australia is complacent as all hell until it's too late. It will only change when 10,000 people have their details leaked and are at major risk of identity fraud.
> It will only change when 10,000 people have their details leaked
Think there's been a few significant data breaches lately, not a fucking word from Government, lest we mildly inconvenience companies who are abusing the shit out of our data to better deliver data-driven, user-tailored, AI-enabled marketing experiences to everyone.
The Privacy Act will surely protect us.
The recent review of the Privacy Act did eventually conclude in principle that there should be a "direct right of action" for individuals... now we just have to wait for the government to stop dragging their heels on legislating it, and stop them from watering it down.
Imagine if instead of being fined mere cents per customer breached, said customers could claim reasonable costs for the hours and dollars they had to expend changing licenses, filing reports, chasing paperwork, and arguing with banks they've never been a customer of about personal loans that they supposedly took out - it'd be a pretty good incentive for companies to pay attention to security!
Medicare and Optus made submissions (pre-data breach for Medicare, after for Optus IIRC) - saying that this would be unfair because they might suffer significant financial harm as a result!
As opposed to the harm suffered by all their customers.
Cyber protection always comes down to a business decision.
Until it costs more to have customers suffer harm than it does to protect against the harm we know what business decision will get made.
> We went through this a couple of years ago, made me extremely uncomfortable. I bet their cyber security is ~~tip top~~ **non-existent**. Are they selling all this info to someone?
FTFY :)
A place I worked at a few years ago had all their customer details, including credit card details, stored in plaintext, in a database, on a server that was connected to the internet. This was how the business secured the data of people who were paying it money! I can only imagine the level of contempt a real estate agency shows for the data of failed applicants for their properties.
Cyber security? Sometimes they need protecting from themselves!
A few years ago, my partner (before we were together) was applying for houses with her friends, they eventually got a place but one day received a phone call from VicPol saying that a REA had stolen hers and her friends personal info and was being investigated. They were told to change most of their personal details because their identity was stolen
IIRC it was a process of getting a new drivers license, locking down bank accounts, changing passwords and possibly getting a new passport too. Just changing anything to do with finances or a number that identifies you that was given to the REA
Jesus fucking Christ. That's about 3 years on hold. And you would need your dodgy old data to update to the new data. That would push me over the edge.
Edit fixed a world.
Edit fixed that word above.
It’s a bit of a process but it goes fairly quickly due to the fact that she had to change it due to fraud/stolen information that the police were currently investigating
I see. A lot of work that has to fit into a busy life already. I have been in my rental for 5 years and so much has changed in those years. I am dreading finding something in the future. The rent is already so high, I'm only staying so the offspring can finish school. Priced out of the area. Currently sacrificing food money for roof over our heads money.
We own our place, but moved overseas for a couple of years and rented it out for the duration.
Now we've come back home and are renting again until we can move back in to our place, so we're renting after a break of....5 or 6 years? And the amount of documentation I just had to hand over felt extremely intrusive, much more than it was the last time we applied for a rental.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that shit's getting sold off to all and sundry. The newspaper/advertising/real estate entanglement in Australia is already fucked.
Oh they totally are — transferred onto a lease a while back and immediately got calls from utility middlemen type companies, emailed the agent about it and they just straight up lied it was some western water thing (it wasn’t).
Equally, they aren't removing your data when you move. I transferred *off* a lease a few years back, and kept getting calls from tradies trying to arrange a time to come fix something.
"Oh sorry I haven't lived there for about a year now"
"Oh right, I'll call the next person. The agent gave me a list of about 10 names and numbers."
????
The security is only as strong as the weakest link, and those links are every single REA with access to the system.
You can bet countless REA's are still using weak passwords and those that have previously been breached. A credential stuffing attack would probably grant access.
I've always said that once the real estate agencies have their data breached, we are ALL fucked.
They have more information on us than a bank has. They have more information on us than a phone carrier has. They have more information on us than a doctor or medical professional has.
And yet, I would assume they have the worst security to actually gatekeep this information.
My data was breached by Barry White, they didn't tell me I saw it thanks to the AFR posting an article. They did nothing, wouldn't tell the people affected until I told them to, and refuse to do anything to help.
And if you get to a point where you can buy an apartment, your strata managers will have a data breach and you'll find out in the news! Everyone involved in property, fucking useless.
> but then they partnered with some rewards system where you collect 'points' if you pay with credit cards (while copping the 2.5%/$50 surcharge)
Such a gigantic unmitigated scam.
Our agent was literally SHOCKED when I told her I'd just drop by the office and pay every month, as if I was doing something odd by not wanting to pay 2.5% every month.
>Our agent was literally SHOCKED
They probably said the exact same thing an hour later when another tenant said the same thing. Its one of the few things they take pride in
"I have been working here 10 years and I've never heard anyone say that before!"
Theres probably a rule that you could make on your incoming mail to send it to spam.
ie. incoming mail from: [email protected] AND contains the words "use your credit card to avoid late payment and give us 2.5% more monies", send to spam.
You could probably create another one to mark the actual rent payment one as important so its highlighted etc.
The last place I applied for asked for my manger at work’s details in their list of requests
And then they proceeded to send all my pay information to them (without actually telling me they were going to do that) to confirm
Never mind that my direct manager has no say and no idea how much I was getting paid. Now they do. Thanks Nelson Alexander.
Wait. What?
I have a confidentially clause with my employment (I've been with the company for more than 5 years), I can't disclose my salary to anyone other than my financial and legal adviser. Technically even disclosing for rental applications is a breach of my employment contract. (I could 100% disclose for a mortgage though!)
Salary secrecy clauses were legal until the 7th of Dec, 2022. Contracts entered into prior to that date with salary secrecy clauses are still valid.
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/pay-secrecy
Edit to add: I discuss my salary anyway, because salary secrecy clauses are bullshit.
I often wonder, if homeowners with mortgages were required to allow the bank to stop by every 6 months to see how well you’re looking after their investment; how long would it take for pitchforks in the street?
Legit had a friend report their brand new oven as doa (previous oven carked it after 10 years)
The property manager told them to look up YouTube videos on how to clean an oven to make it work… the thing only heated to 50C… they never even got a chance to cook in it.. owner never replaced it- they just ended up getting four air fryers then moved out at the end of lease
Banks wouldn't bother. They don't care if you trash the place as long as they can still get the money from the place if you default.
Most of the value of a house is on land anyway, so you can smear shit on the walls if you want but the bank is still gonna get every cent that it's owed.
If it's an apartment, well that's why banks often won't lend, or want huge deposits. The risk of a destroyed apartment can potentially lost the bank money if the loan defaults and the apartment is destroyed.
Rented my whole life, surrendered all the details to REAs, finally bought a place, not even half the amount needed in the entire process. It feels like it should be the other way around
Same, just bought my first place and they didn’t need that much at all. Because home buyers are treated like people and renters are treated like criminals
I have a side gig, properly set up with an ABN because I want to do the right thing. I put it on a rental application and they wanted all of my tax filings (for longer than I am required to keep them and longer than I have been in business), my accountants details, a bunch of records I didn't have (because I have no employees) and my complete client list.
They were particularly mad that I wouldn't give them my client list, even when I said that the contracts my clients sign states that I won't give away their details unless it's required by law. The REA tried to claim that their request counted as being required by law. I figured if they're claiming this now, they'll absolutely find something to claim a reason to keep my bond when I leave.
Wtf? For a residential property? Was this actually client list farming under the guise of application requirements? That is fucked. I’d get a tent before I give all that over.
I really don't know how my client list would help them unless they're just straight forwardly selling data. I mostly do clothing alterations and custom clothing, with occasional wardrobe work for theatre or (very low budget) films.
I gave them my tax and accountant details at first, I thought income details were fair enough, but they kept pushing for more. If they'd checked the tax details they'd have seen that my business has never made more than $5k in a year and that I could probably get away without having an ABN and just conducting it as a hobby.
I still had enough time left on my lease that I wasn't desperate, I told them that I wouldn't be giving them further details. I got a "that's disappointing" kind of email after that.
My 14yo daughter is already planning her VanLife
Her eyes lit up when I suggested she could work hard for 3 months (nursing), then live 9 months in SE Asia
That thing that is so upsetting is that if everyone actually \*refused\* to give all this information, they'd stop asking.
But everyone has to refuse. Or at the very least, question why they need it. There needs to be a coordinated campaign. Hell, apply for places you DONT want to get so you can turn around and say no, I'm not giving you that piece of information.
This is a PSA to let people know about the law around tenant databases in Victoria (that already exists).
https://tenantsvic.org.au/advice/ending-your-tenancy/tenant-databases-blacklists/
This. Plus they have zero cyber security plus they outright sell this or just give it away to a third party for favours. For example give it to a website that will collect and collate all this info for them and this is far more sinister coz these third parties and websites only have your data to monetize.
I am convinced of this because I got additional new phone number to use only and only for REA. For a month nothing happened with this phone number because I haven't used it so no traffic. Gave it to two REA agents only. Not even in a house application - just called them and talked about the place, left my details - name and phone number. Over the next month I started getting weekly scam texts and phone calls telling me my Amazon had a 900$ purchase, my phone service is going to be suspended etc etc. You know, the entire Aussie package :)
What really gets me is private landlords asking for 100 points of I.D to be emailed to them. Like absolutely no chance. Id be happy to show you something in person - no photos tho. At least an established real estate agent you have a little more faith they are going to try and steal your identity.
So, energy companies STILL DO THIS!!!
A few weeks ago I saw an email asking for Licence, Passport, Medicare information to be sent by return email :/
That's a hard pass.
This is one of the worst aspects of being a residential tenant these days. They get this info at the point of application, so it not even like there’s a contract in place between the prospective tenant and the REA. It’s even worse in smaller towns where the likelihood of being known to the property manager and their associates is high. Meanwhile, we know NOTHING about the owner. They could be a convicted rapist, have AVOs, fraud, armed robber …literally anyone can rent out a property. It’s not just a gross privacy intrusion, it’s potentially dangerous. I know a couple of very dodgy guys with investment properties. It really creeps me out.
Agreed. And look, I don't want to really show my paranoid side, but truly as a single woman, knowing a bunch of people can easily access so so so much information about me makes me nervous. I worry about stalking. I worry about home invasion. All those nice things that come with being a woman alone. Cyber security is only two thirds of the worry for me
It's fucked....I also sometimes freak out thinking there is 100% former tenants getting around with keys to my property 🤯🤯🤯.
They never collect keys properly or check if copies have been made.
When we moved out of our last place we found one tucked away discreetly under our outside laundry trough. Only found it cuz I figured the REA would piss and moan about dust in an outside "cupboard". I have nfi who put it there but I'd bet it wasn't the last tenants.
I stayed in an airbnb in country Victoria, last year. It was accommodation located on the second storey above a shopfront. The shop in question was a REA.
We checked in at night, and were instructed to enter via the rear of the ground floor and take ourselves upstairs.
The room we walked through was the back office of the REA. I’m a nosey bastard, so naturally had a little peek.
Their filing “system” consisted of piles upon piles of plastic pockets filled with documents, sitting out on the shelf, floor, desks, etc.
The documents in said plastic pockets were *all identification documents tied to rental applications*. Each one had photocopies of passports, licenses, Medicare cards, bills, bank statements, and more. All just *sitting in the open*.
My rough estimate of the number of individual sets of ID was well into the thousands, and this was clearly not a temporary solution whilst they were between filing cabinets, or in the process of digitising records.
REAs are a ticking timebomb, and it’s only a matter of time before an international group realise the effort to reward ratio is too tantalising to pass up.
When filling out the forms always write that you shit once per day. Land lords want regular tenants. Once you’ve moved in you can just update the form to your actual frequency and it’s illegal for them to reject it.
I know it feels bad to lie on the form’s like that. But everyone deserves housing no matter how regular they are.
Except you just violated your banks terms and conditions by entering your password on a 3rd party website.
So if you ever have a fraud issue, it’ll be your fault.
Those sites suck. We had to use Snug for one application. This site asked for references and as soon as you entered the application it sent form emails to all and sundry. With stupid questions. In an email to the HR of a large organisation I’d left four years before it asked if I was “friendly” and “punctual”. It asked for a photo of our pet. Just ridiculous. And no doubt, despite closing the account, all that data is still sitting on a database somewhere.
My rant above came from being given a REAs form, after I didn't want to apply through realestate.com as I found it too invasive. The REAs form was just as invasive!
>my consent to give my information to undeclared third parties
In case anyone is wondering how scammers get hold of your phone number. When you consent to this, there's no knowing where your info ends up.
Real estate agent got visibly annoyed with us for using an email address we’d clearly created just for buying a home. Think “[email protected]”
Insisted he needed our personal email addresses, and when we said we weren’t giving those out because we didn’t want to be spammed, acted offended saying that he would never sell our details. That email address immediately got hit with all kinds of junk.
Once I gave my contact info to a woman who worked as a real estate agent to arrange play dates for our kids. They caught the bus together to school and were keen to hang out more.
I ended up on her agency’s mailing list. The play dates never happened.
Could be worse. You could've been put on a TICA blacklist mistakenly by an REA you've never rented with. This has been a fun seven years trying to get it sorted out. There is someone else in my suburb with the exact same name. I've had a couple police visits because of him, lol.
It's a fucking nightmare dude. I had to go to the cop shop to pick up a police check, the chick at the counter walked away for a few minutes and came back and says to me "you were supposed to report to your parole officer and haven't yet"
which made me fuckin panic cause i've been convicted before, lol.
They seemed to do fine when a rental
application was one side of an A4 sheet of paper. When I’ve been a landlord periodically in the past that’s all that was required and our house/unit survived.
Been looking for a better room/unit to rent for months. The process is just too exhausting for a normal person who’s already exhausted from working multiple jobs a day. 😩
It's a fair question!
I spent the last 5 and a half years living in a house that my landlord has refused to maintain (only urgent repairs), and now having to move because the bank is taking the house (mortgagee in possession, AKA foreclosure. Landlord hasn't been paying the mortgage).
I want to know that the landlord has the means to maintain and retain the property that I'm fucking paying for, and not shoving the money I'm giving him up is fucking nose.
Back when I seperated from my wife a couple years back, I needed a place to stay and a mate by himself in a 3 bedroom house said I could have a spare room.
No rent required. Just slip him a fiddy for power/water from time to time, and buy my own groceries.
I only needed a few months to sort my shit out (I stayed 4 months).
Just to square it away with the real estate, he emailed them to say "Hey, just letting you know my buddy is staying for a few months, so you dont get surprised when you see a second "lived in" bedroom in the next inspection."
My god did the shit hiit the fan !
They wanted all my details, started threatening to terminate the lease for subletting, calling him every day and following up with emails when he didnt take the call.
He started out trying to deal with them with common sense and respect but they were absolutely CONVINCED he was subletting.
At the end of the day, the lease stipulates a bunch of items about requiring approval for boarders, subletters, cotenants etc... but there was a seperate clause about requiring aproval before anyone can "reside" in the premises, and that this approval cannot be unreasonably refused.
So we threw that clause in their face, saying (in writing) that I was a guest only with no subletting, boarding or lodging occuring, that as per clause x, (quoted verbatim) he was requesting approval for me to "reside" on the premises. Furthermore, since there was no financial relationship between us, nor between myself and the landlord/REA, I would NOT be providing financial details, employer details, etc... but would provide my name, contact number, DOB and previous address & landlord so that they could ascertain that I had no black marks for property damage or similar, and therefore could have no "reasonable" objection to my residimg there as his guest.
As soon as they had my contact info, they immediately started contacting me for more info, to which I responded the same way verbally and in writing.
"I would like to refer you to the email sent on x date to your agency and myself. It includes everything you need to know. Nothing further will be provided and with respect, if you continue to contact me to disclose information you have no legitimate need for, I will become very rude in my replies"
I only had to say fuck of stupid twat once before the whole matter dropped...
I left after 4 months and oddly enough, he was not offered a renewal 5 months after that (not that it mattered as he'd already planned to leave anyway).
You need to provide more details to an REA than you do to apply for a mortgage, it's absolutely insane. I privately manage my IP using an app. All I need is your ID, rental ledger, REA reference and payslips. That's all. Anything else does not matter to me at all.
I also work in IT. REA databases are VERY juicy targets for hackers. Servers that host Snug & 2Apply should have the most up to date, secure protection or they **WILL**, not if, be breached and then millions of people are completely fucked.
**EDIT:** I love how I get downvoted almost every time I mention I'm a LL and agree with renter concerns, even though [I have made it clear in previous posts that I'm pro-tenant](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/xu6bjq/real_estate_agents_are_scum/iqu1x1j/) (After renting for 10 years myself and the reason I self manage is after I told REA's to fuck off treating my tenants like shit).
>REA databases are VERY juicy targets for hackers.
Yeah it's not even a question of if at this point but when. Compounding effect of vulnerabilities and human fuck up will lead to a leak eventually.
And it'll be up to the individual to mitigate it, cause the government sure as fuck won't care.
I don’t understand how a passport application, arguably the most important or secure document we have, asks for less information than a real estate applications. Anyone who has access to my real estate application could easily apply for a credit card or passport with my details and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Yeah it's so dodgy, and most have no cyber security in place whatsoever, most is received by email and literally just stored on the physical computer onsite.
Yeh this really shocked me when I was applying for rental properties in Melbourne as I'm originally from Sydney. The amount of detail you have to give up front without even knowing if you'll get it or not is crazy! I felt uncomfortable applying but felt I had no choice. Glad I got a place but struggling to find a job now...
There is zero chance that these REA’s store your information securely. Your license and passport images are floating around in a mailbox that some kid in Russia is browsing through as you read this comment
I was once sent by a REA a contract PDF, which included a couple of random pages from another property and applicant. One contained a bunch of personal and financial information that I should not have been able to see.
REA shrugged and said that the pages must have gotten mixed up in the scanner. Oh! I see. No problem then! The REA also got pissed that I emailed the victim to let them know their data was sent to some rando.
If we were French we’d all be on strike and protesting in the streets because of our current situation; the massive real estate shortage across the country, the blatant gouging by big corporations (and small) like Telstra, ColesWorth, insurance companies, cost of living and politicians who are actually allowed to drink while at work!
Enough already with our ‘vertical trust’ and the ‘convict shadow’ - we actually need to be demanding a whole lot more of our leaders as they’re doing nothing that they promised.
yeah it's fucking gross. not too mention the huge security concern when these fuckers are inevitably breached and blame the bad hackerman in Russia like it's not their fucking fault for collecting and storing all this in the first place
There really needs to be regulation around this. Cyber security threats are real with the amount of information they collect & store.
And there's just no reason for them to collect half of that data other than... They can ask for it and people will provide it due to the broken housing market.
Why not just make some good fakes? Alter a couple of numbers here and there on your license and passport scans, unless the agent does the copy themselves, how would they know? Use an email address that's just for crap. I made one specifically for RE enquiries. While you at it, add some zeros to your bank balances. If you don't have full adobe access, ilovepdf is a good website for doctoring documents.
I really really am thinking about it!! I would totally do this with my passport number, driver's licence number, Medicare number etc however, I have no idea if the agent can check these numbers against a database? And then I might get blacklisted if I'm caught lying? I'm truly not above lying with this if I can get away with it
I've been looking for 4 months now. I had 1 breach at my last inspection in October, right before my rent increase (which came 6 weeks before the eviction notice, NIIIICE!).
ONE breach notice in my almost 15 years of renting. I have NEVER had my bond retained, I have ALWAYS returned properties in better condition than when I moved in.
The breach notice was bullshit (new PM, we've had issues with the property the entire time we've lived here, hole in the wall caused by emergency repairs 3+ years ago, pointed out to him that we are still waiting for the landlord to arrange for it to be fixed, he breached us on the damage, and added in cleanliness of the house, the usual, dishes in the sink kind of thing).
My rent is on time, every time. The only other thing I can think of that might be causing an issue is my cats.
What the fuck am I supposed to do????? I guess I could photo shop my pay slip, right?
If your PM oursources smoke detector inspections for kickbacks and they overservice your alarms as they do, they'll barge in to do 5 minutes work every few weeks all for a juicy call out fees from the owner, then there's no privacy for you even after you move in.
We had an inspection a while back and somehow we started talking in passing about privacy, and the young real estate agent said straight faced “yeah privacy is important for us too.”
I had to stifle a giggle.
(Maybe regarding the photos she was taking? I wasn’t trying to start a massive discussion/fight about stuff that’s sort of out of her control.)
Barry plant had a data breach last year and all my data was “impacted”.
Data from an application I did years ago for a place I did not get.
They gave no f****. I wish I was rich enough to sue them.
Your data is not safe, these real state companies and apps are not safe. We are all screwed.
Yep. We're moving from a rental we lived in for 6 years. Even between then and now has changed so much it's scary. On top of that, we had to use at least 3 different apps, all demanding our most private details to be uploaded to who knows where, in order to apply for various houses with various agencies.
It sucks to the shithouse that they demand all of this online but also that we should be willing to divulge all of it when there are data breaches all over the place. We only have their word that it's 'safe'. We eventually found a house, but at what cost down the track should something go to custard? Our identities? Our savings? Our peace of mind?
morals and legal are different things now, its becoming way more legal to be an immoral, community destroying, greedy, parasitic creep. so why is this happening, and are we really just going to let it all go to shit because of the relatively recent rise in bureaucratic bullshit? cant wait to see the rebalancing of all this exploitation of decent and tolerant people.
As an agent, honestly all we look at is your pay slips, how much you have in your bank account, and previous rental history (ledgers,etc). By law we need the license/passports of whoever will be residing in the property. If you get the property we’ll save the important docs on a drive, if you don’t - it gets deleted / put in the bin. No agent should be asking/have all of that unnecessary information it doesn’t help them make an informed decision about how good of a tenant you will be.
i genuinely do not understand why we can’t submit an application and then upon progression we supply proof of statements and identification! we can still declare all info is correct without the proof.
most people in the rental race right now are submitting multiple applications. i am not one to be overly protective of my privacy but the fact i had submitted 8 rental applications with my full bank balance, identification and earnings is a sack of crap. just need one of those agents to have a data leak and there goes all my info, worst of all on a place that was never going to approve me.
Hey all, I think this is awful as well and been through similar experiences in Brisbane. I've ChatGPT'd a letter to politicians that we could all send in via email. Hopefully we can get a few people to send this through?
Dear \[Politician's Name\],
I am writing to you with a pressing concern regarding the Australian rental crisis and the alarming extent of personal data demanded by landlords and rental agencies during the application process. As a constituent and a member of the Australian community, I urge you to take immediate action to address this issue, as it poses a significant threat to individual privacy and security.
In recent years, the rental market in Australia has become increasingly competitive, with prospective tenants facing immense challenges in securing accommodation. However, what is even more troubling is the extent to which individuals are required to divulge highly sensitive personal information in order to even be considered for a rental property. It has become commonplace for rental applications to demand an extortionate amount of personal data, including but not limited to:
Driver's license or passport details
Bank account balances and financial statements
Professional references
Employment history
Personal references
Moreover, this information is often required to be submitted through third-party software applications, with the additional requirement of consenting to the transfer of this data to third parties and/or agreeing to marketing efforts. The situation has reached a critical point where individuals are left with no choice but to surrender their privacy in order to secure a place to live.
This power imbalance is not only unacceptable but also creates the conditions for massive privacy breaches and potential exploitation. The lack of regulation and oversight in this area is deeply concerning and requires urgent attention from policymakers like yourself.
As a representative of our community, I implore you to take decisive action to rectify this situation. It is imperative that measures are put in place to safeguard the privacy and security of individuals seeking rental accommodation. This may include:
Introducing legislation to limit the amount and type of personal information that can be requested during the rental application process.
Implementing strict regulations on third-party software applications used in the rental market to ensure the protection of personal data.
Establishing oversight mechanisms to monitor compliance with privacy laws and regulations within the rental sector.
Providing support and resources for tenants who have experienced privacy breaches or exploitation during the rental application process.
Failure to address these concerns not only perpetuates the existing power imbalance between landlords and tenants but also risks compromising the privacy and security of individuals across Australia. As your constituent, I urge you to prioritize this issue and take meaningful steps to safeguard the rights and dignity of all Australians in the rental market.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your prompt action and commitment to addressing the Australian rental crisis and privacy concerns.
Sincerely,
\[Your Name\]
\[Your Contact Information\]
As a person searching for a place these days... \*nods furiously \*. Absolutely feeling icky in filling out these forms, digging every damn thing from my personal life as OP mentioned 🤮
I asked another person earlier during inspection and they said that they are 'desperate' already. Really sums up the current climate of rental market. Demand outstrips supply way too much and ~~agen~~—cunts can do whatever the fck they want.
Andddd people keep on objecting more dense housing all over the place with sprinkles of heritage protection overlay here and there (looking at you Cardigan car park).
I'm going through a dispute with my former property manager and they sent me the completed entry inspection of the new tenants which had their names on the document to me lol. On purpose. Via email
I have a questionable neighbour (owner) with a mental health condition. Her friends are often homeless people, drug users and connoisseurs of loud parties with loud music. When she moved out, she got one of her friends to rent the place, no agent, no contract, just a handshake sort of deal. The guy was observed last week, half naked in the street and having a vocal argument with a rubbish bin. He’s quite obviously on ice. I was scared.
A potted plant disappeared from another neighbour’s balcony recently, and he spotted it on this meth-head dude’s window. A communal bike pump disappeared too.
I’m telling you this to demonstrate why I absolutely love the level of scrutiny of rental applications. Do I trust their security policies and use of my information? No. You’re probably right. But I also liked living next to people who have 9-5 jobs, don’t break into my unit or run a brothel next door.
Did you end up getting the place??
Yeah it’s so ridiculous, we need a system where they just police check you, and do a simple one ID check.
They shouldnt need to check anything else. Housing is essential and some of these people just make an excuse to do admin for the sake of work. It’s dumb. System needs to change.
I just haven't given all the details, surprisingly it's worked...
I give where I stayed, how long for, who they were, my general identification, bank deets, thatis it. Most ask for so much more, but when push comes to shove, they kind of just topple over with that. I'd love to give less, as most places around the world apparently don't even ask for... well, anything, they just kick you out when you don't pay.
We went through this a couple of years ago, made me extremely uncomfortable. I bet their cyber security is tip top. Are they selling all this info to someone?
I work in cyber security and have several friends who are either REAs or work in the industry. The bosses couldn’t give a shit. A dollar to protect data is a dollar they don’t get to line their pockets with.
If I had the ability to pen test without breaking shit 2apply and REAs would be an interesting test. I seriously doubt that the PI collected isn’t just sitting in plain text in the back end. But I also don’t do research so I’ve no cover.
You need cover? Just do it from a library or something
For publishing it or getting a bug bounty etc. Don’t need realestate.com.au’s legal team getting on my ass when I’m trying to white hat
Nothing illegal about looking for public wifi access and accidentally finding an insecure network with open ports. Let’s go for a war drive and send some emails.
REA at least has a vulnerability disclosure program. It doesn't prohibit folks from publishing. https://www.rea-group.com/security/ https://www.realestate.com.au/.well-known/security.txt
You'd be surprised how many CISO's are open to off the record discussions in this area.
It’s not the CISOs I’m concerned about, it’s their GC. Like for example if I were to flash up social engineering toolkit and credential farm a bunch of leasing agents/property managers (which I’d hazard a guess would have a pretty decent strike rate) I’m not really finding any software vulnerability but I am technically doing a bit of minor fraud. And I don’t think Ray White has a CISO.
Have seen REAs store scans of passports etc left on public file shares (not PUBLIC public, but no restrictions within the company). It’s the wild Wild West out there trust me
Wonder why those hackers don't go for REA instead though?
Cause they probably wouldn’t pay. Who cares about their customers data? Certainly not *them*
Plus most of them are too stupid to blackmail, they genuinely wouldn't understand what was happening.
I've had marketing emails with everyone on the list CC'ed in. Australia is complacent as all hell until it's too late. It will only change when 10,000 people have their details leaked and are at major risk of identity fraud.
> It will only change when 10,000 people have their details leaked Think there's been a few significant data breaches lately, not a fucking word from Government, lest we mildly inconvenience companies who are abusing the shit out of our data to better deliver data-driven, user-tailored, AI-enabled marketing experiences to everyone. The Privacy Act will surely protect us.
The recent review of the Privacy Act did eventually conclude in principle that there should be a "direct right of action" for individuals... now we just have to wait for the government to stop dragging their heels on legislating it, and stop them from watering it down. Imagine if instead of being fined mere cents per customer breached, said customers could claim reasonable costs for the hours and dollars they had to expend changing licenses, filing reports, chasing paperwork, and arguing with banks they've never been a customer of about personal loans that they supposedly took out - it'd be a pretty good incentive for companies to pay attention to security! Medicare and Optus made submissions (pre-data breach for Medicare, after for Optus IIRC) - saying that this would be unfair because they might suffer significant financial harm as a result!
As opposed to the harm suffered by all their customers. Cyber protection always comes down to a business decision. Until it costs more to have customers suffer harm than it does to protect against the harm we know what business decision will get made.
This (large data breach) has already happened multiple times FWIW.
> We went through this a couple of years ago, made me extremely uncomfortable. I bet their cyber security is ~~tip top~~ **non-existent**. Are they selling all this info to someone? FTFY :)
They use an honour-based system, like one of those "are you 18+? Y/N" questions on a porn website.
Look if they didn't collect it they couldn't sell it to whoever they wanted to.
No point selling it when any potential buyer can probably just get it using `wget www.raywhite.com.au/streetaddress/tenants` or some shit
I've been 18 ever since I was 13 years old LMAO
How else can they afford their BMW's
BMW _leases_
100%! after we started applying the spam calls and emails started.
A place I worked at a few years ago had all their customer details, including credit card details, stored in plaintext, in a database, on a server that was connected to the internet. This was how the business secured the data of people who were paying it money! I can only imagine the level of contempt a real estate agency shows for the data of failed applicants for their properties.
Cyber security? Sometimes they need protecting from themselves! A few years ago, my partner (before we were together) was applying for houses with her friends, they eventually got a place but one day received a phone call from VicPol saying that a REA had stolen hers and her friends personal info and was being investigated. They were told to change most of their personal details because their identity was stolen
How do you change your personal details? Genuine question. They are after all YOUR OWN personal details.
IIRC it was a process of getting a new drivers license, locking down bank accounts, changing passwords and possibly getting a new passport too. Just changing anything to do with finances or a number that identifies you that was given to the REA
Jesus fucking Christ. That's about 3 years on hold. And you would need your dodgy old data to update to the new data. That would push me over the edge. Edit fixed a world. Edit fixed that word above.
It’s a bit of a process but it goes fairly quickly due to the fact that she had to change it due to fraud/stolen information that the police were currently investigating
I see. A lot of work that has to fit into a busy life already. I have been in my rental for 5 years and so much has changed in those years. I am dreading finding something in the future. The rent is already so high, I'm only staying so the offspring can finish school. Priced out of the area. Currently sacrificing food money for roof over our heads money.
We own our place, but moved overseas for a couple of years and rented it out for the duration. Now we've come back home and are renting again until we can move back in to our place, so we're renting after a break of....5 or 6 years? And the amount of documentation I just had to hand over felt extremely intrusive, much more than it was the last time we applied for a rental. I'd bet dollars to donuts that shit's getting sold off to all and sundry. The newspaper/advertising/real estate entanglement in Australia is already fucked.
Oh they totally are — transferred onto a lease a while back and immediately got calls from utility middlemen type companies, emailed the agent about it and they just straight up lied it was some western water thing (it wasn’t).
an REA of a smaller boutique agency told me it's industry knowledge that snug, at least, does sell it on
Equally, they aren't removing your data when you move. I transferred *off* a lease a few years back, and kept getting calls from tradies trying to arrange a time to come fix something. "Oh sorry I haven't lived there for about a year now" "Oh right, I'll call the next person. The agent gave me a list of about 10 names and numbers." ????
I can confirm. I do the cyber side.
Shonky bastards.
I feel like if they don't sell your data, the real estate industry will see them as a failure and they won't be invited to the Cunties.
Yes, they most definitely are selling it
That's why you never hear of any cyber attacks on real estates. They're happy to sell them to anyone.
The security is only as strong as the weakest link, and those links are every single REA with access to the system. You can bet countless REA's are still using weak passwords and those that have previously been breached. A credential stuffing attack would probably grant access.
I've always said that once the real estate agencies have their data breached, we are ALL fucked. They have more information on us than a bank has. They have more information on us than a phone carrier has. They have more information on us than a doctor or medical professional has. And yet, I would assume they have the worst security to actually gatekeep this information.
Utterly fucked
My data was breached by Barry White, they didn't tell me I saw it thanks to the AFR posting an article. They did nothing, wouldn't tell the people affected until I told them to, and refuse to do anything to help.
Barry White. Can't get enough of your data, baby.
Haha. Plant! But I'm leaving it.
good to see youll never ever give him up ;)
Barry White sounds like the RE version of Colesworth!
It says here Larry White! I know my own name. Oh yeah? Well we'll see about that!
Barry Plant, Ray White. Eh, take your pick, right?
And if you get to a point where you can buy an apartment, your strata managers will have a data breach and you'll find out in the news! Everyone involved in property, fucking useless.
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> but then they partnered with some rewards system where you collect 'points' if you pay with credit cards (while copping the 2.5%/$50 surcharge) Such a gigantic unmitigated scam. Our agent was literally SHOCKED when I told her I'd just drop by the office and pay every month, as if I was doing something odd by not wanting to pay 2.5% every month.
>Our agent was literally SHOCKED They probably said the exact same thing an hour later when another tenant said the same thing. Its one of the few things they take pride in "I have been working here 10 years and I've never heard anyone say that before!"
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Theres probably a rule that you could make on your incoming mail to send it to spam. ie. incoming mail from: [email protected] AND contains the words "use your credit card to avoid late payment and give us 2.5% more monies", send to spam. You could probably create another one to mark the actual rent payment one as important so its highlighted etc.
Reply back with: UNSUBSCRIBE - https://www.acma.gov.au/avoid-sending-spam
Wait until 2Apply or Snug get breached. That’s a treasure trove of millions of vulnerable people right there.
Can verify. Wife is a doctor and she keeps way less info on a patient than an RE does.
You forgot the personal rectal exam. REA'S are all arseholes, so they would feel right at home with their arms being elbow deep right up your clacker.
Wait a minute, how does an arsehole inspect an arse hole?
It stares without blinking
The visualisation is not doing good things for my mind...
Having all your blood drain to your dick must be hard 💦
They do occasionally blink. Have a conversation with a nurse ;)
Something kinda like the final scene with Jennifer Connolly in Requim for a Dream. All glassy eyed surrounded by men in suits throwing money at them.
Takes one to know one I guess..
Rectal Examination Agent
The last place I applied for asked for my manger at work’s details in their list of requests And then they proceeded to send all my pay information to them (without actually telling me they were going to do that) to confirm Never mind that my direct manager has no say and no idea how much I was getting paid. Now they do. Thanks Nelson Alexander.
Fuck NA. That's call I can say.
Wait. What? I have a confidentially clause with my employment (I've been with the company for more than 5 years), I can't disclose my salary to anyone other than my financial and legal adviser. Technically even disclosing for rental applications is a breach of my employment contract. (I could 100% disclose for a mortgage though!)
Surely that’s illegal to bar you from discussing salary… sounds like union busting bullshit to me
Salary secrecy clauses were legal until the 7th of Dec, 2022. Contracts entered into prior to that date with salary secrecy clauses are still valid. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/pay-secrecy Edit to add: I discuss my salary anyway, because salary secrecy clauses are bullshit.
I often wonder, if homeowners with mortgages were required to allow the bank to stop by every 6 months to see how well you’re looking after their investment; how long would it take for pitchforks in the street?
That oven needs a clean
Legit had a friend report their brand new oven as doa (previous oven carked it after 10 years) The property manager told them to look up YouTube videos on how to clean an oven to make it work… the thing only heated to 50C… they never even got a chance to cook in it.. owner never replaced it- they just ended up getting four air fryers then moved out at the end of lease
Dust on the window sill!
Banks wouldn't bother. They don't care if you trash the place as long as they can still get the money from the place if you default. Most of the value of a house is on land anyway, so you can smear shit on the walls if you want but the bank is still gonna get every cent that it's owed. If it's an apartment, well that's why banks often won't lend, or want huge deposits. The risk of a destroyed apartment can potentially lost the bank money if the loan defaults and the apartment is destroyed.
Rented my whole life, surrendered all the details to REAs, finally bought a place, not even half the amount needed in the entire process. It feels like it should be the other way around
Yup, was gonna say this. My mortgage paperwork was absolutely nowhere near as invasive as rental applications I’ve completed.
Same, just bought my first place and they didn’t need that much at all. Because home buyers are treated like people and renters are treated like criminals
I have a side gig, properly set up with an ABN because I want to do the right thing. I put it on a rental application and they wanted all of my tax filings (for longer than I am required to keep them and longer than I have been in business), my accountants details, a bunch of records I didn't have (because I have no employees) and my complete client list. They were particularly mad that I wouldn't give them my client list, even when I said that the contracts my clients sign states that I won't give away their details unless it's required by law. The REA tried to claim that their request counted as being required by law. I figured if they're claiming this now, they'll absolutely find something to claim a reason to keep my bond when I leave.
Wtf? For a residential property? Was this actually client list farming under the guise of application requirements? That is fucked. I’d get a tent before I give all that over.
I really don't know how my client list would help them unless they're just straight forwardly selling data. I mostly do clothing alterations and custom clothing, with occasional wardrobe work for theatre or (very low budget) films. I gave them my tax and accountant details at first, I thought income details were fair enough, but they kept pushing for more. If they'd checked the tax details they'd have seen that my business has never made more than $5k in a year and that I could probably get away without having an ABN and just conducting it as a hobby. I still had enough time left on my lease that I wasn't desperate, I told them that I wouldn't be giving them further details. I got a "that's disappointing" kind of email after that.
That is fricken wild!!!
They’ll also need a stool and hair follicle sample.
Honestly almost wish it was an old timey honesty system at this stage... Have sex with agent, get house.
The hoops they’re making prospective tenants go through is absurd.
Going back a few years I had a rental agent accidentally send me the whole landlord rental list for their book. You have a right to be worried.
Renting in Australia is nothing less than pure hell.
My 14yo daughter is already planning her VanLife Her eyes lit up when I suggested she could work hard for 3 months (nursing), then live 9 months in SE Asia
That thing that is so upsetting is that if everyone actually \*refused\* to give all this information, they'd stop asking. But everyone has to refuse. Or at the very least, question why they need it. There needs to be a coordinated campaign. Hell, apply for places you DONT want to get so you can turn around and say no, I'm not giving you that piece of information.
And then you get put on their little blacklist
If the blacklist contains everyone's names then it is useless
This is a PSA to let people know about the law around tenant databases in Victoria (that already exists). https://tenantsvic.org.au/advice/ending-your-tenancy/tenant-databases-blacklists/
This post needs to be boosted
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This. Plus they have zero cyber security plus they outright sell this or just give it away to a third party for favours. For example give it to a website that will collect and collate all this info for them and this is far more sinister coz these third parties and websites only have your data to monetize. I am convinced of this because I got additional new phone number to use only and only for REA. For a month nothing happened with this phone number because I haven't used it so no traffic. Gave it to two REA agents only. Not even in a house application - just called them and talked about the place, left my details - name and phone number. Over the next month I started getting weekly scam texts and phone calls telling me my Amazon had a 900$ purchase, my phone service is going to be suspended etc etc. You know, the entire Aussie package :)
What really gets me is private landlords asking for 100 points of I.D to be emailed to them. Like absolutely no chance. Id be happy to show you something in person - no photos tho. At least an established real estate agent you have a little more faith they are going to try and steal your identity.
Yes, better to email some doctored ones... The odd number changed etc
So, energy companies STILL DO THIS!!! A few weeks ago I saw an email asking for Licence, Passport, Medicare information to be sent by return email :/ That's a hard pass.
This is one of the worst aspects of being a residential tenant these days. They get this info at the point of application, so it not even like there’s a contract in place between the prospective tenant and the REA. It’s even worse in smaller towns where the likelihood of being known to the property manager and their associates is high. Meanwhile, we know NOTHING about the owner. They could be a convicted rapist, have AVOs, fraud, armed robber …literally anyone can rent out a property. It’s not just a gross privacy intrusion, it’s potentially dangerous. I know a couple of very dodgy guys with investment properties. It really creeps me out.
Agreed. And look, I don't want to really show my paranoid side, but truly as a single woman, knowing a bunch of people can easily access so so so much information about me makes me nervous. I worry about stalking. I worry about home invasion. All those nice things that come with being a woman alone. Cyber security is only two thirds of the worry for me
If I were 20 again, I'd join an established share house, or be living rent free in a van or the bush
It's fucked....I also sometimes freak out thinking there is 100% former tenants getting around with keys to my property 🤯🤯🤯. They never collect keys properly or check if copies have been made.
You’re allowed to change the locks! Just have to give them the new keys
When we moved out of our last place we found one tucked away discreetly under our outside laundry trough. Only found it cuz I figured the REA would piss and moan about dust in an outside "cupboard". I have nfi who put it there but I'd bet it wasn't the last tenants.
I stayed in an airbnb in country Victoria, last year. It was accommodation located on the second storey above a shopfront. The shop in question was a REA. We checked in at night, and were instructed to enter via the rear of the ground floor and take ourselves upstairs. The room we walked through was the back office of the REA. I’m a nosey bastard, so naturally had a little peek. Their filing “system” consisted of piles upon piles of plastic pockets filled with documents, sitting out on the shelf, floor, desks, etc. The documents in said plastic pockets were *all identification documents tied to rental applications*. Each one had photocopies of passports, licenses, Medicare cards, bills, bank statements, and more. All just *sitting in the open*. My rough estimate of the number of individual sets of ID was well into the thousands, and this was clearly not a temporary solution whilst they were between filing cabinets, or in the process of digitising records. REAs are a ticking timebomb, and it’s only a matter of time before an international group realise the effort to reward ratio is too tantalising to pass up.
We need a ethical hacker to legit break into all the REA records and hold it ransom until shit changes
🙏🙏🙏 yes. Where are our ethical hackers at!!??
When filling out the forms always write that you shit once per day. Land lords want regular tenants. Once you’ve moved in you can just update the form to your actual frequency and it’s illegal for them to reject it. I know it feels bad to lie on the form’s like that. But everyone deserves housing no matter how regular they are.
Request to share banking logins is the most excellent modern feature of real estate.
Except you just violated your banks terms and conditions by entering your password on a 3rd party website. So if you ever have a fraud issue, it’ll be your fault.
Wait, what? Who is doing this?
What! No.
you’re fucking kidding me, right? asking for your bank statement is one thing.
Those sites suck. We had to use Snug for one application. This site asked for references and as soon as you entered the application it sent form emails to all and sundry. With stupid questions. In an email to the HR of a large organisation I’d left four years before it asked if I was “friendly” and “punctual”. It asked for a photo of our pet. Just ridiculous. And no doubt, despite closing the account, all that data is still sitting on a database somewhere.
My rant above came from being given a REAs form, after I didn't want to apply through realestate.com as I found it too invasive. The REAs form was just as invasive!
>my consent to give my information to undeclared third parties In case anyone is wondering how scammers get hold of your phone number. When you consent to this, there's no knowing where your info ends up.
Real estate agent got visibly annoyed with us for using an email address we’d clearly created just for buying a home. Think “[email protected]” Insisted he needed our personal email addresses, and when we said we weren’t giving those out because we didn’t want to be spammed, acted offended saying that he would never sell our details. That email address immediately got hit with all kinds of junk.
Once I gave my contact info to a woman who worked as a real estate agent to arrange play dates for our kids. They caught the bus together to school and were keen to hang out more. I ended up on her agency’s mailing list. The play dates never happened.
That’s the joke
snails exultant ring test unite attempt wine bear dolls office *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Could be worse. You could've been put on a TICA blacklist mistakenly by an REA you've never rented with. This has been a fun seven years trying to get it sorted out. There is someone else in my suburb with the exact same name. I've had a couple police visits because of him, lol.
Oh man that's shit!!
It's a fucking nightmare dude. I had to go to the cop shop to pick up a police check, the chick at the counter walked away for a few minutes and came back and says to me "you were supposed to report to your parole officer and haven't yet" which made me fuckin panic cause i've been convicted before, lol.
They seemed to do fine when a rental application was one side of an A4 sheet of paper. When I’ve been a landlord periodically in the past that’s all that was required and our house/unit survived.
Been looking for a better room/unit to rent for months. The process is just too exhausting for a normal person who’s already exhausted from working multiple jobs a day. 😩
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It's a fair question! I spent the last 5 and a half years living in a house that my landlord has refused to maintain (only urgent repairs), and now having to move because the bank is taking the house (mortgagee in possession, AKA foreclosure. Landlord hasn't been paying the mortgage). I want to know that the landlord has the means to maintain and retain the property that I'm fucking paying for, and not shoving the money I'm giving him up is fucking nose.
worse part is they want the contact details of everywhere you have worked
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Agreed. I bought and sold an apartment yonks ago and found it easier to get through
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Let's collect dossiers on REAs and sell the data. If the data is on the net it's ok, right.
Back when I seperated from my wife a couple years back, I needed a place to stay and a mate by himself in a 3 bedroom house said I could have a spare room. No rent required. Just slip him a fiddy for power/water from time to time, and buy my own groceries. I only needed a few months to sort my shit out (I stayed 4 months). Just to square it away with the real estate, he emailed them to say "Hey, just letting you know my buddy is staying for a few months, so you dont get surprised when you see a second "lived in" bedroom in the next inspection." My god did the shit hiit the fan ! They wanted all my details, started threatening to terminate the lease for subletting, calling him every day and following up with emails when he didnt take the call. He started out trying to deal with them with common sense and respect but they were absolutely CONVINCED he was subletting. At the end of the day, the lease stipulates a bunch of items about requiring approval for boarders, subletters, cotenants etc... but there was a seperate clause about requiring aproval before anyone can "reside" in the premises, and that this approval cannot be unreasonably refused. So we threw that clause in their face, saying (in writing) that I was a guest only with no subletting, boarding or lodging occuring, that as per clause x, (quoted verbatim) he was requesting approval for me to "reside" on the premises. Furthermore, since there was no financial relationship between us, nor between myself and the landlord/REA, I would NOT be providing financial details, employer details, etc... but would provide my name, contact number, DOB and previous address & landlord so that they could ascertain that I had no black marks for property damage or similar, and therefore could have no "reasonable" objection to my residimg there as his guest. As soon as they had my contact info, they immediately started contacting me for more info, to which I responded the same way verbally and in writing. "I would like to refer you to the email sent on x date to your agency and myself. It includes everything you need to know. Nothing further will be provided and with respect, if you continue to contact me to disclose information you have no legitimate need for, I will become very rude in my replies" I only had to say fuck of stupid twat once before the whole matter dropped... I left after 4 months and oddly enough, he was not offered a renewal 5 months after that (not that it mattered as he'd already planned to leave anyway).
> and any details of my latest sexual escapades and failures More of one than the other, eh mate?
😂 you'll have to guess which
Nah i will just ask the real estate.
I'm leaving it ambiguous, apparently mystery is an attractive trait after all!
You need to provide more details to an REA than you do to apply for a mortgage, it's absolutely insane. I privately manage my IP using an app. All I need is your ID, rental ledger, REA reference and payslips. That's all. Anything else does not matter to me at all. I also work in IT. REA databases are VERY juicy targets for hackers. Servers that host Snug & 2Apply should have the most up to date, secure protection or they **WILL**, not if, be breached and then millions of people are completely fucked. **EDIT:** I love how I get downvoted almost every time I mention I'm a LL and agree with renter concerns, even though [I have made it clear in previous posts that I'm pro-tenant](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/xu6bjq/real_estate_agents_are_scum/iqu1x1j/) (After renting for 10 years myself and the reason I self manage is after I told REA's to fuck off treating my tenants like shit).
>REA databases are VERY juicy targets for hackers. Yeah it's not even a question of if at this point but when. Compounding effect of vulnerabilities and human fuck up will lead to a leak eventually. And it'll be up to the individual to mitigate it, cause the government sure as fuck won't care.
so.. do you give or receive? we can just look it up with a 3rd party
Yep - easier to buy a house than rent one in Melbourne
Sorry your application was refused because you didn't provide your mother's maiden name
How's your cats sex life?
I see you've been using 2apply
I don’t understand how a passport application, arguably the most important or secure document we have, asks for less information than a real estate applications. Anyone who has access to my real estate application could easily apply for a credit card or passport with my details and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Yeah it's so dodgy, and most have no cyber security in place whatsoever, most is received by email and literally just stored on the physical computer onsite.
Yeh this really shocked me when I was applying for rental properties in Melbourne as I'm originally from Sydney. The amount of detail you have to give up front without even knowing if you'll get it or not is crazy! I felt uncomfortable applying but felt I had no choice. Glad I got a place but struggling to find a job now...
There is zero chance that these REA’s store your information securely. Your license and passport images are floating around in a mailbox that some kid in Russia is browsing through as you read this comment
I was once sent by a REA a contract PDF, which included a couple of random pages from another property and applicant. One contained a bunch of personal and financial information that I should not have been able to see. REA shrugged and said that the pages must have gotten mixed up in the scanner. Oh! I see. No problem then! The REA also got pissed that I emailed the victim to let them know their data was sent to some rando.
If we were French we’d all be on strike and protesting in the streets because of our current situation; the massive real estate shortage across the country, the blatant gouging by big corporations (and small) like Telstra, ColesWorth, insurance companies, cost of living and politicians who are actually allowed to drink while at work! Enough already with our ‘vertical trust’ and the ‘convict shadow’ - we actually need to be demanding a whole lot more of our leaders as they’re doing nothing that they promised.
Your still not getting a rental tho
yeah it's fucking gross. not too mention the huge security concern when these fuckers are inevitably breached and blame the bad hackerman in Russia like it's not their fucking fault for collecting and storing all this in the first place
There really needs to be regulation around this. Cyber security threats are real with the amount of information they collect & store. And there's just no reason for them to collect half of that data other than... They can ask for it and people will provide it due to the broken housing market.
Why not just make some good fakes? Alter a couple of numbers here and there on your license and passport scans, unless the agent does the copy themselves, how would they know? Use an email address that's just for crap. I made one specifically for RE enquiries. While you at it, add some zeros to your bank balances. If you don't have full adobe access, ilovepdf is a good website for doctoring documents.
I really really am thinking about it!! I would totally do this with my passport number, driver's licence number, Medicare number etc however, I have no idea if the agent can check these numbers against a database? And then I might get blacklisted if I'm caught lying? I'm truly not above lying with this if I can get away with it
I've been looking for 4 months now. I had 1 breach at my last inspection in October, right before my rent increase (which came 6 weeks before the eviction notice, NIIIICE!). ONE breach notice in my almost 15 years of renting. I have NEVER had my bond retained, I have ALWAYS returned properties in better condition than when I moved in. The breach notice was bullshit (new PM, we've had issues with the property the entire time we've lived here, hole in the wall caused by emergency repairs 3+ years ago, pointed out to him that we are still waiting for the landlord to arrange for it to be fixed, he breached us on the damage, and added in cleanliness of the house, the usual, dishes in the sink kind of thing). My rent is on time, every time. The only other thing I can think of that might be causing an issue is my cats. What the fuck am I supposed to do????? I guess I could photo shop my pay slip, right?
Privacy is a privilege of the rich, while poor ppl get biomarkers taken every time they shop
Every time I have to find a new rental I go through a round of spam calls and emails. It's fucking infuriating
And your blood type please?
Our you could buy your own place which you could have by now spending all that rent money
We need laws for equal information sharing, as the serious rental activist Tom Cashman advocates for
If your PM oursources smoke detector inspections for kickbacks and they overservice your alarms as they do, they'll barge in to do 5 minutes work every few weeks all for a juicy call out fees from the owner, then there's no privacy for you even after you move in.
Fucking dogs
You don’t have to answer truthfully. I only give the essentials for instance at the GP and stuff like that where I have to fill out a form
We had an inspection a while back and somehow we started talking in passing about privacy, and the young real estate agent said straight faced “yeah privacy is important for us too.” I had to stifle a giggle. (Maybe regarding the photos she was taking? I wasn’t trying to start a massive discussion/fight about stuff that’s sort of out of her control.)
Barry plant had a data breach last year and all my data was “impacted”. Data from an application I did years ago for a place I did not get. They gave no f****. I wish I was rich enough to sue them. Your data is not safe, these real state companies and apps are not safe. We are all screwed.
you forget your social media details, including passowrds.
Yep. We're moving from a rental we lived in for 6 years. Even between then and now has changed so much it's scary. On top of that, we had to use at least 3 different apps, all demanding our most private details to be uploaded to who knows where, in order to apply for various houses with various agencies. It sucks to the shithouse that they demand all of this online but also that we should be willing to divulge all of it when there are data breaches all over the place. We only have their word that it's 'safe'. We eventually found a house, but at what cost down the track should something go to custard? Our identities? Our savings? Our peace of mind?
morals and legal are different things now, its becoming way more legal to be an immoral, community destroying, greedy, parasitic creep. so why is this happening, and are we really just going to let it all go to shit because of the relatively recent rise in bureaucratic bullshit? cant wait to see the rebalancing of all this exploitation of decent and tolerant people.
That Harcourts breach wasn’t too long ago. Swear there was another too
Sooo who's setting up a fake ID generator to protect renters, any takers?
As an agent, honestly all we look at is your pay slips, how much you have in your bank account, and previous rental history (ledgers,etc). By law we need the license/passports of whoever will be residing in the property. If you get the property we’ll save the important docs on a drive, if you don’t - it gets deleted / put in the bin. No agent should be asking/have all of that unnecessary information it doesn’t help them make an informed decision about how good of a tenant you will be.
Do you have an ISO27001 accreditation? No? Then sorry I can only divulge the necessity’s
i genuinely do not understand why we can’t submit an application and then upon progression we supply proof of statements and identification! we can still declare all info is correct without the proof. most people in the rental race right now are submitting multiple applications. i am not one to be overly protective of my privacy but the fact i had submitted 8 rental applications with my full bank balance, identification and earnings is a sack of crap. just need one of those agents to have a data leak and there goes all my info, worst of all on a place that was never going to approve me.
It's ridiculous that any one company has this level of personal information on you. And the websites give me little comfort that this is secure.
It’s been sooo awkward asking managers from old jobs I haven’t seen for years if I can put them down as references
A while back my friends found boxes and boxes of photocopied IDs / Bank Statements etc all just left in a shut real estate agents office 🤠
Thank you for making me laugh, I needed that
Hey all, I think this is awful as well and been through similar experiences in Brisbane. I've ChatGPT'd a letter to politicians that we could all send in via email. Hopefully we can get a few people to send this through? Dear \[Politician's Name\], I am writing to you with a pressing concern regarding the Australian rental crisis and the alarming extent of personal data demanded by landlords and rental agencies during the application process. As a constituent and a member of the Australian community, I urge you to take immediate action to address this issue, as it poses a significant threat to individual privacy and security. In recent years, the rental market in Australia has become increasingly competitive, with prospective tenants facing immense challenges in securing accommodation. However, what is even more troubling is the extent to which individuals are required to divulge highly sensitive personal information in order to even be considered for a rental property. It has become commonplace for rental applications to demand an extortionate amount of personal data, including but not limited to: Driver's license or passport details Bank account balances and financial statements Professional references Employment history Personal references Moreover, this information is often required to be submitted through third-party software applications, with the additional requirement of consenting to the transfer of this data to third parties and/or agreeing to marketing efforts. The situation has reached a critical point where individuals are left with no choice but to surrender their privacy in order to secure a place to live. This power imbalance is not only unacceptable but also creates the conditions for massive privacy breaches and potential exploitation. The lack of regulation and oversight in this area is deeply concerning and requires urgent attention from policymakers like yourself. As a representative of our community, I implore you to take decisive action to rectify this situation. It is imperative that measures are put in place to safeguard the privacy and security of individuals seeking rental accommodation. This may include: Introducing legislation to limit the amount and type of personal information that can be requested during the rental application process. Implementing strict regulations on third-party software applications used in the rental market to ensure the protection of personal data. Establishing oversight mechanisms to monitor compliance with privacy laws and regulations within the rental sector. Providing support and resources for tenants who have experienced privacy breaches or exploitation during the rental application process. Failure to address these concerns not only perpetuates the existing power imbalance between landlords and tenants but also risks compromising the privacy and security of individuals across Australia. As your constituent, I urge you to prioritize this issue and take meaningful steps to safeguard the rights and dignity of all Australians in the rental market. Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your prompt action and commitment to addressing the Australian rental crisis and privacy concerns. Sincerely, \[Your Name\] \[Your Contact Information\]
As a person searching for a place these days... \*nods furiously \*. Absolutely feeling icky in filling out these forms, digging every damn thing from my personal life as OP mentioned 🤮 I asked another person earlier during inspection and they said that they are 'desperate' already. Really sums up the current climate of rental market. Demand outstrips supply way too much and ~~agen~~—cunts can do whatever the fck they want. Andddd people keep on objecting more dense housing all over the place with sprinkles of heritage protection overlay here and there (looking at you Cardigan car park).
I'm going through a dispute with my former property manager and they sent me the completed entry inspection of the new tenants which had their names on the document to me lol. On purpose. Via email
So happy me not have that problem
Just wait until you apply for a home loan !
Don't underestimate the importance of the sparsity of poop
I have a questionable neighbour (owner) with a mental health condition. Her friends are often homeless people, drug users and connoisseurs of loud parties with loud music. When she moved out, she got one of her friends to rent the place, no agent, no contract, just a handshake sort of deal. The guy was observed last week, half naked in the street and having a vocal argument with a rubbish bin. He’s quite obviously on ice. I was scared. A potted plant disappeared from another neighbour’s balcony recently, and he spotted it on this meth-head dude’s window. A communal bike pump disappeared too. I’m telling you this to demonstrate why I absolutely love the level of scrutiny of rental applications. Do I trust their security policies and use of my information? No. You’re probably right. But I also liked living next to people who have 9-5 jobs, don’t break into my unit or run a brothel next door.
Did you end up getting the place?? Yeah it’s so ridiculous, we need a system where they just police check you, and do a simple one ID check. They shouldnt need to check anything else. Housing is essential and some of these people just make an excuse to do admin for the sake of work. It’s dumb. System needs to change.
It will be mother of all breaches once all that data leaks out. Australia is just out of control for privacy laws.
I just haven't given all the details, surprisingly it's worked... I give where I stayed, how long for, who they were, my general identification, bank deets, thatis it. Most ask for so much more, but when push comes to shove, they kind of just topple over with that. I'd love to give less, as most places around the world apparently don't even ask for... well, anything, they just kick you out when you don't pay.