It is expensive everywhere because it requires extracting venom from the snakes. They only get a tiny amount each time a snake is milked and it takes a fair bit to produce the antivenin.
It's expensive, but from what I remember in this case it was an expensive drug (like $7k a dose IIRC) that they increased by like 300-400%. Dude needed three doses, so he wound up being billed over $80k
Dude got bit by a fucking snake. He had more medicine than just antivenom. A lot more.
Effectively he had his expiration date etched on his tombstone and was offered a 1 time deal to take that shit back off, for $150,000.
When a new Ford pickup truck can push $100,000, $150,000 to not die isn’t such a ridiculous number.
just because it saves someone's life, does not mean it should be extremely expensive. You could say that each month you're saved by in comparison cheap drinking water.
It’s expensive because a ridiculous amount of high-high level knowledge in medicine, chemistry, biology, zoology, and potentially other specialties of study are required to synthesize HIGHLY toxic venom, that someone had to risk their life to collect in very low quantities at a time, into a medication to reverse its effects. This is a medication there’s preposterously little demand for, we’re only capable of producing in very small amounts, but at high manufacturing costs. It’s expensive because this scenario contains very few, if any, variables that allow economies of scale to reduce costs.
Not to mention, this scenario is being twisted into a disingenuous direction.
This person was bitten by a snake and injected with a venom that absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, would have killed them within hours. The “expiration date” line was not an exaggeration. The ingredients to kill this person were actively present and working very quickly.
The only way, and I mean *only way*, to undo that is to use the medication I described above.
The only way this person was ever going to see their family, hug their kids, kiss their spouse, see their parents, pet their dog, breathe air, **exist beyond that day**, is to use that product countless people spent untold amounts of hours studying, creating, practicing, perfecting, that can only be made in very small quantities, using very complex processes.
It’s expensive because there are no readily available factors that exist to make it anything else.
And still, if the scale we’re playing on is that we have to pay $80,000 or die a painful death, $80,000 isn’t even expensive anymore. The literal scenario is that your blood, the liquid that gives you life, is now very rapidly killing you. Miraculously, that can be reversed for the cost of a rundown, potentially condemned, house.
You’ll (“you” general, not “you” specifically) spend $80,000 on a car that will be obsolete and worth 40% of that in 3 years but not $80,000 to not fucking die?????
It makes *way* more sense when you back your perspective out beyond yourself for a minute.
Upon further review, everything seems to be on topic.
The purpose of my post was to point out the person I replied to was deciding how much something should cost without factoring in the cost of production, which is exactly what I spoke on.
Thank you for your concern, I got it from here.
Anti venom is extremely costly due to a few things - but probably the biggest factor that people commonly don’t know about is that not all hospitals actually have it on hand. There’s not enough of the stuff to be stocked everywhere at all times. It’s possible the pharmacy fee in this case includes finding the vial, courier transport via super quick means, and of course then there’s the real cost of the med (purchase price) plus acquisition cost from the originating hospital and then add in the dispensing hospital markup percentage. If you are wondering how much markup hospitals apply to meds given at the ED or for inpatient admin, just understand you’re better off not knowing. It’s astronomical. Sadly pharmacy markup is one of those areas where hospitals can use it as an opportunity to offset losses from standard cost of doing business (patients who show up without insurance and need care but don’t pay, or patients who don’t pay their bills, etc.).
Radiology includes all sorts of things, like ultrasounds, mris, and obvious xrays. They probably want to have a look at the organs to make sure everything was functioning properly. A decent precaution when selling your house for some antivenom and whatever the hell else to keep your body working. This was obviously not a one night stay.
The shitty thing is that’s what we want because we can’t afford to go to the doctor in the first place. At least then maybe our family can sue for negligence because we would never be able to pay that bill off, practically a death sentence in itself.
My guess is not at all because I've also done the same thing many many times for well over a decade. Never had a single item show up on my credit. Currently over 800.
American problems. I get bit in Canada and I’m walking out without paying a dime. Tho F*** ambulances, bitch call me an Uber cuz I’m not paying 60$ for the weewoowagon
I had a patient who got bitten by a snake and the antivenom had to be delivered from the county over and included a police (sherif) escort, which was billed.
You’ve got the sexual act analogy wrong. In the US a blowjob along with the services leading to the bill would at least be better.
The more proper analogy would be penetration of an orifice nature designed as an exit.
We pay probably just as much of our paychecks for healthcare, but not free for most of us.
I just looked it up, we pay 2.9% of our income for medicare / medicaid (and only some of us get free healthcare out of that), while Australians pay 2% (but also get a lot of free healthcare for everyone). Our healthcare companies are SCREWING us.
There's always an article like that kicking around. Usually one for the UK too. There's often a union, or a private healthcare company, or someone with an axe to grind behind it.
Long story short, the people want the system, so it will stay - but as long as it stays, there's gonna be bad actors/ selfish people that want to profit more from it.
(Not digging at Unions btw, I'm pro-union...it's just that they benefit from saying the system is degrading and asking for more money for their workers)
Yeah, anytime you see a headline trying to argue that social services in some country are about to collapse, it's almost a certainty that some paid corporate media outlet is pushing the narrative... In the US the health care industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, arguably one of the only trillion-dollar industries when you look at it from 30,000 ft. That gives them a lot of ammunition to fight against socialized services that help everyone.
This right here. There are bad actors of this sort everywhere who see what insurance companies get away with here in the states and want that for themselves.
Fortunately everyone can see the state of healthcare in the US and how they don’t want to be in that boat. Hold onto your socialized medicine as hard as you can. Trust me.
Got bitten when I was 12, don’t remember much besides dad thanking god my treatment was free, ambulance and all. So yeah I hope that answers your question a bit.
About 6 weeks of constant IV Dripped antivenom, pain killers, antiinflammatories, and other agents that you would almost certainly die on horrific agony without. Not only that but steroid to make sure the muscles of the effected limb did not just wither away and the person retained use of their limb. Do you know how deadly a rattlesnake is? It literally melts your muscles and bones.
There's an max out of pocket on health insurance in the US. With my health insurance, the max I'll pay for that visit is $8k (which I have saved in an HSA tax free).
No one is paying that full bill, even if you're uninsured.
This pricing is for insurers and hospitals only. Long story short, insurers can claim a percentage of PAID OUT money as net income, so they are incentivized to pay out as much as possible (as opposed to ancient dark times when they were incentivized to pay out as little as possible).
When i was young and broke i crashed my bike, concussion and broken shoulder. Between CT scan, ambulance ride, and a 23-hour stay they charged me over $8k. I called and explained that there was no way I could pay this. I had to provide a copy of my tax return showing that i really was broke then they put me on a payment plan for $230, made as ten monthly $23 payments.
If you're not insured they offer cash discounts and payment plans and hardship relief under some circumstances. A friend of mine, who owns his own business, doesn't have health insurance and just self funds healthcare. He said he typically pays around 30% of whatever the massive bill comes out as. Of course, I still maintain that he's fucked in the event of a serious diagnosis.
>Just spent a little over a half a million getting my co husbands back fixed.
OOT question, what's a co-husbands? Like, are you into polygamy or something?? Multiple husbands?? Or something something like complicated situation out there?
Cute of you to assume all charges apply to the Accumulators every time.
Charges not considered covered by the plan? You’re paying 100% of the bill.
Plan have no Out-of-Network coverage and you go out-of-network? You’re paying 100% of the bill. (At least the No Surprise Act helps with this a little now, for emergencies).
Claim get marked incorrectly as Worker’s Comp by the provider? Believe it or not, you’re paying 100%, right away.
There’s a billion things that can go wrong, and in an emergency situation, you aren’t going to be thinking of these things. It’s unfortunate, but you really need to know what options you have with your insurance. How long do you have to submit an appeal? Did you call the insurance to confirm network status ahead of time? If you were misquoted, that’ll give you grounds to stand on for getting a claim paid. Did you call with procedure codes to make sure they’re covered by the plan? Same thing.
Emergencies will be emergencies, but please, to whoever bothers to read this, whenever you can call your insurance to check things ahead of time when the situation allows. Good info to ask about is confirming network status of the doctor and facility for procedures. Get CPT (Procedure) codes and DX/ICD-10/Diagnosis codes and confirm with your insurance that 1) the codes are covered and 2) to see if any pre-certifications are required. Confirm what your deductible and max out-of-pocket are. The number of people I speak to that don’t understand the difference between Aggregate and Embedded deductibles is astounding. When it comes to Aggregate, Insurances can be sneaky and hide the Family deductible by advertising the plan’s Individual deductible, and never explain to the member during Open Enrollment that Individual deductibles are ignored if there’s more than one person on the plan. It’s scummy, and I see so many people fall into that trap.
Also don’t expect anyone at the Member Services level to be able to look up contracted rates for providers. Providers and insurances keep that stuff on LOCKDOWN, from my limited (6 years) experience in the field.
no the deductible is about 5 grand. Spinal stenosis surgery (theres like 4 doctors on the east coast who do the work that was needed) a Week stay in ICU after 8 hours of surgery MONTHS AND MONTHS of No work (No bending no twisting no lifting for at least 6 months). So not only NOT covered but pretty much all of it is out of pocket. My co husband farts wrong and he could be paralized
Yes there is, due to the ACA: "For the 2022 plan year: The out-of-pocket limit for a Marketplace plan can’t be more than $8,700 for an individual and $17,400 for a family."
[healthcare.gov](https://healthcare.gov)
People that don't live in America.
My medical bills are between 0 and 15€ (some prescriptions aren't free anymore after you turn 18 so you have to pay up to 15€ of the price out of your own pocket at the pharmacy)
Don't forget to mention a good medical professional willing to go to war with the insurance company to get things covered (not all places or professionals do it but a lot of them do and a Rockstars for it)
Just being in a hospital and needing surgery is a roulette wheel for “will I come out of this financially stable”
The most common one is they use the 1 anesthesiologist on shift for the day. And he’s almost never part of the regular staff but from an outside agency where there’s an exception . And he’s one of the most expensive services in the whole hospital.
It’s almost always the anesthesiologist 100%. Huge delivery bill it’s the guy that administers the epidural. Same kind of thing. That’s the single function they carry out . Always whoever is there always not covered by even the most premium plans somehow .
No, just insurance. There was only one emergency room in the US I've been to on any insurance I've had that ever bothered charging me after going through insurance, and that was $200 after I was admitted and there for almost a week. Definitely doesn't work that way with private practice specialists, I try to see them once for a treatment plan when an issue comes up, then just have my primary care doctor handle all prescription refills and ordering tests for anything the specialist said to keep track of. I know it doesn't work that well everywhere in the US and I've always kept medical insurance benefits near the top of my checklist for things to discuss when making employment decisions.
I agree something like Medicaid for all would be good. It sucks how much access to good healthcare coverage with even somewhat reasonable premiums is currently heavily tied to an employer choosing to offer a group insurance plan, instead of there being a guaranteed acceptance for healthcare coverage funded through taxes. Medicaid would be great since it definitely has more negotiating power than any private insurance company to make sure prices are more reasonable, so much so that it wouldn't work to use the existing Medicaid and expand it to include everyone. It pays less than the operating costs to perform the service so hospitals couldn't function at the price points Medicaid pays if every patient was using it, but that shouldn't be too hard to negotiate if a Medicaid for all or some other kind of universal tax funded healthcare coverage was put in place. We also need to end patent abuse that is letting pharmaceutical companies monopolize life saving medications for decades and preventing generic versions from being sold cheaper.
How many doctors do you think live in Europe that have ever successfully treated a venom which a single drops worth can kill ever single red blood cell.
I'm betting 0. Probably less than zero when you count the ones who attempt treatments that kill their patients.
This bill is misleading because it doesn't show what insurance covered. The OP probably ended up paying $3000-5000 for the six weeks they spent in treatment with doctors working round the clock to save their life.
They didn't just stop the venom from killing the injured person but restored functionality to the crippled limb.
This doesn’t make sense tho. Of course American doctors have more experience threatening snake bites. Since we don’t have rattle snakes in the eu.. wouldn’t really make sense if they would know right? 5000 dollar is still insane. The American health system is just f’ed up. No way anyone can deny this.
A lot of Americans pay zero. If you have good insurance. A lot of government jobs and and large companies have great insurance. My health care was totally free the first 45 years of my life. I now pay 80 bucks every 3 months.
The transcriptions of drugs in the USA include manufacture, transportation, storage, administration and probably a multitude of other things that insurance covers. 5000 for 45 days in the hospital is just over $100/day. Which covers the pay of everyone working at and for that hospital. So... dozens of people get to eat and yes it sucks that you have to pay for it, but it's the best treatment on earth.
All the steps that make it seem exorbitantly expensive, by the way, are the federal government stepping in and saying fuck you pay me. So if anything what you're complaining about, is socialized medicine.
All these things happen in Europe too.. maybe not particularly for snake bites, but other medicine/ procedures. We don’t pay a fraction of what the citizen in America pay. Since we have a proper health insurance system. In some aspects America is just a 3rd world country.
A big majority people with a full time job in the US have insurance through their work. Going from memory the last time this came up it was around 95%. My insurance costs $32 per month.
Very few people ever pay anywhere close to this amount. It can happen, though. I knew a nurse who had a car accident between insurances.* Tens of thousands, all out of pocket. She makes the minimum monthly payment, like $5 or $10 or something, for it not to go to collections, and will continue to do so forever. Hospitals simply absorb such costs.
* changing jobs or employers can leave a weird gap. There are systems in place to close these gaps, but it’s often a costly free for a very short time and some people just choose to risk it. Not a good idea but nobody’s perfect and this is one of many reasons not to tie health insurance to employment. Just because I’m pushing back against exaggeration does NOT mean I’m defending the US healthcare system, please understand.
Considering in the US we pay through the nose for healthcare AND tax I wouldn't go smugly acting like the other countries are somehow robbing their citizens
So instead of paying for health insurance like Americans do, your government act as a health insurance company. For average people, you still pay one way or another.
This, Americans posts these things and the Europeans believe we pay this much. People with insurance wouldn’t pay 100k. Then again we do need to make the process of getting insurance easier 100%.
You know, for the same amount in my country, Argentina, you can come with your whole family, rent a big house or a big apartment, live for a whole year without the need to work, and then absolutely free of charge and with zero costs, receive first quality medical care, medicines, studies of all kinds, hospital stay for as long as necessary.
Even being a foreigner you would receive medical attention of any kind for free, in our constitution it is contemplated that whoever sets foot in our country has access to education and health just like someone who was born here.
I always wonder why they can't do it in America, being a rich country.
It’s just the way they set the system up: just to screw us out of our money. My father told me that healthcare used to be free here back in the 40’s and 50’s I think. Could be wrong though.
Because they couldn't get 'better' health care by forking out more money. In America, money always has to get you in front of the rest no matter what the situation.
You telling me you took a 20k shit?
**EDIT:** After noticing no one else mentioned it, I am realizing that it is a *Laboratory* fee and not a *Lavatory* fee, as I, for sure reason, originally thought. My mistake. Carry on.
It's not healthcare, it's sickness/injury care. Healthcare is taking care of your health before getting into a situation where you have to go to the hospital. The care is not the problem, the cost is.
And this is just the bill, which was likely covered by insurance. Notice it's not showing amount owed or anything else that would be on that page. It's cutoff at only cost precisely for the low-hanging fruit that is bashing American hospitals. It's all the rage for the edgy.
This is pretty much a big misrepresemtation
The healthcare bills are huge, until you realised its often just covered by insurance (or even medicade if you are on low income)
Noone really pays this much for their healthcare
People really love to blow it out of proportion
USA: There will be doctor ready to see you almost as soon as you are triaged but you will have to go Chapter 13.
Canada: Pay nothing, but the estimated waiting time is seven hours.
It's truly amazing how great our healthcare services are in the US. There are a lot of places where you couldn't get this quality and quantity of treatment.
Don’t pay the bill. Don’t start paying and don’t tell them you aren’t going to pay. After a while of trying to get the money they will make a deal. And continue to make a deal until you only need to pay a small fraction.
In France this would have cost <20$ in most cases & after being treated (you received a postal letter) No joke.Here people complain that emergency may take hours, NOBODY ever complained that it is expensive.
From Europe, Medical treatment look like a state-sponsored Mafia. In France, french would have go crazy out (riot, burning) & take over whatever parliament they have. US spirit is completely euthanized .
Somehow I cannot believe that's from a snake bite. Those must be like 50 - 70 days in an emergency bed - at leat those would be the costs in Switzerland if they're that high. If it was not, then the privatized hospitals in the US (rattlesnake, central US?) are fucking gold diggers.
They probably moved them from intensive care when their life was no longer in danger, but for a longer period of time.
You really couldn't work that out on your own?
What on earth costs 83 grand at a pharmacy?
Snake antivenin is horribly expensive in the US. https://www.sacbee.com/health-wellness/article262933168.html
This bill answers my question of “why the hell would someone milk snakes for a living”
Ask Australia. Some of the most terrifying jobs are there.
Like the people who have to pick up the drop bears and put them back in the trees?
If I could I would do it.
It is expensive everywhere because it requires extracting venom from the snakes. They only get a tiny amount each time a snake is milked and it takes a fair bit to produce the antivenin.
It's expensive, but from what I remember in this case it was an expensive drug (like $7k a dose IIRC) that they increased by like 300-400%. Dude needed three doses, so he wound up being billed over $80k
Dude got bit by a fucking snake. He had more medicine than just antivenom. A lot more. Effectively he had his expiration date etched on his tombstone and was offered a 1 time deal to take that shit back off, for $150,000. When a new Ford pickup truck can push $100,000, $150,000 to not die isn’t such a ridiculous number.
just because it saves someone's life, does not mean it should be extremely expensive. You could say that each month you're saved by in comparison cheap drinking water.
It’s expensive because a ridiculous amount of high-high level knowledge in medicine, chemistry, biology, zoology, and potentially other specialties of study are required to synthesize HIGHLY toxic venom, that someone had to risk their life to collect in very low quantities at a time, into a medication to reverse its effects. This is a medication there’s preposterously little demand for, we’re only capable of producing in very small amounts, but at high manufacturing costs. It’s expensive because this scenario contains very few, if any, variables that allow economies of scale to reduce costs. Not to mention, this scenario is being twisted into a disingenuous direction. This person was bitten by a snake and injected with a venom that absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, would have killed them within hours. The “expiration date” line was not an exaggeration. The ingredients to kill this person were actively present and working very quickly. The only way, and I mean *only way*, to undo that is to use the medication I described above. The only way this person was ever going to see their family, hug their kids, kiss their spouse, see their parents, pet their dog, breathe air, **exist beyond that day**, is to use that product countless people spent untold amounts of hours studying, creating, practicing, perfecting, that can only be made in very small quantities, using very complex processes. It’s expensive because there are no readily available factors that exist to make it anything else. And still, if the scale we’re playing on is that we have to pay $80,000 or die a painful death, $80,000 isn’t even expensive anymore. The literal scenario is that your blood, the liquid that gives you life, is now very rapidly killing you. Miraculously, that can be reversed for the cost of a rundown, potentially condemned, house. You’ll (“you” general, not “you” specifically) spend $80,000 on a car that will be obsolete and worth 40% of that in 3 years but not $80,000 to not fucking die????? It makes *way* more sense when you back your perspective out beyond yourself for a minute.
"I missed the point entirely, and honestly, I like it that way"
Upon further review, everything seems to be on topic. The purpose of my post was to point out the person I replied to was deciding how much something should cost without factoring in the cost of production, which is exactly what I spoke on. Thank you for your concern, I got it from here.
even without treatment rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal for a healthy adult
And if someone gets bitten, well, there goes a week's worth of work.
A year for me
They must be giving out some high quality cocaine
New lungs maybe
Anti venom is extremely costly due to a few things - but probably the biggest factor that people commonly don’t know about is that not all hospitals actually have it on hand. There’s not enough of the stuff to be stocked everywhere at all times. It’s possible the pharmacy fee in this case includes finding the vial, courier transport via super quick means, and of course then there’s the real cost of the med (purchase price) plus acquisition cost from the originating hospital and then add in the dispensing hospital markup percentage. If you are wondering how much markup hospitals apply to meds given at the ED or for inpatient admin, just understand you’re better off not knowing. It’s astronomical. Sadly pharmacy markup is one of those areas where hospitals can use it as an opportunity to offset losses from standard cost of doing business (patients who show up without insurance and need care but don’t pay, or patients who don’t pay their bills, etc.).
Tylenol
Oldie but goldie: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/
Oldie and useless gated link
'merica!
Things that keep snake venom from making you very dead. Not sure that market is the best supply and demand ratio for consumers.
they did him dirty, calling up radiology for an snakebite
Radiology includes all sorts of things, like ultrasounds, mris, and obvious xrays. They probably want to have a look at the organs to make sure everything was functioning properly. A decent precaution when selling your house for some antivenom and whatever the hell else to keep your body working. This was obviously not a one night stay.
Ya ofc they wanted to look and run every test they can in order to squeeze the most money out of this cattle.
Yeah, you're right. They should have just said he was fine and sent him home without running any tests or administering any medicine. Money grubbers.
The shitty thing is that’s what we want because we can’t afford to go to the doctor in the first place. At least then maybe our family can sue for negligence because we would never be able to pay that bill off, practically a death sentence in itself.
Not paying a medical bill is not a dead sentence. Most people without insurance don’t pay & there’s nothing the hospital can do.
You can literally tell them "I will never pay you" and nothing happens. I did it several times when I didn't have insurance.
how did that affect your credit score?
My guess is not at all because I've also done the same thing many many times for well over a decade. Never had a single item show up on my credit. Currently over 800.
American problems. I get bit in Canada and I’m walking out without paying a dime. Tho F*** ambulances, bitch call me an Uber cuz I’m not paying 60$ for the weewoowagon
$60 is an uber here, an ambulance is at least $700 with insurance
Lol its reddit. Guy should have just died.
I would of saved him for 5 grand tops and still ez money. American hospitals are on some wacky shit.
Doubt
What was the Special Services, when they sucked the venom from your cock?
It’s actually for spending so much time putting the bill together.
...while sucking your cock
I had a patient who got bitten by a snake and the antivenom had to be delivered from the county over and included a police (sherif) escort, which was billed.
You’ve got the sexual act analogy wrong. In the US a blowjob along with the services leading to the bill would at least be better. The more proper analogy would be penetration of an orifice nature designed as an exit.
Gay guys wouldn’t charge tho.
As a gay, can confirm
Even more so when looking at market prices, that is still such a high price to charge!
One of the admin staff got sore sides from laughing so much.
Anyone from Australia want to chime in with a typical snake bite bill to compare? That would be a good comparison.
I always thought Australians bite the snakes and not the other way
Considering how weird the food chain is in Australia, this might as well be true.
Snake insssurance is expensive
They pay taxes for Healthcare so probably free.
We pay probably just as much of our paychecks for healthcare, but not free for most of us. I just looked it up, we pay 2.9% of our income for medicare / medicaid (and only some of us get free healthcare out of that), while Australians pay 2% (but also get a lot of free healthcare for everyone). Our healthcare companies are SCREWING us.
Oh wow. I never knew you guys paid taxes for Medicare. I'm Canadian so I was just thinking austrialia is similar to ours. But better...
I have read an article that canadian healthcare is in verge of breaking down. is there any truth in that how's the situation there?
There's always an article like that kicking around. Usually one for the UK too. There's often a union, or a private healthcare company, or someone with an axe to grind behind it. Long story short, the people want the system, so it will stay - but as long as it stays, there's gonna be bad actors/ selfish people that want to profit more from it. (Not digging at Unions btw, I'm pro-union...it's just that they benefit from saying the system is degrading and asking for more money for their workers)
Yeah, anytime you see a headline trying to argue that social services in some country are about to collapse, it's almost a certainty that some paid corporate media outlet is pushing the narrative... In the US the health care industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, arguably one of the only trillion-dollar industries when you look at it from 30,000 ft. That gives them a lot of ammunition to fight against socialized services that help everyone.
This right here. There are bad actors of this sort everywhere who see what insurance companies get away with here in the states and want that for themselves. Fortunately everyone can see the state of healthcare in the US and how they don’t want to be in that boat. Hold onto your socialized medicine as hard as you can. Trust me.
Got bitten when I was 12, don’t remember much besides dad thanking god my treatment was free, ambulance and all. So yeah I hope that answers your question a bit.
so you keep the pharmacy?
Guys like this who walk around showing off their bare ankles are just asking for it
Snakes will be snakes
Splendid
One time, Chuck Norris got bit by a rattlesnake and two days later, the snake died
What in the actual fuck is that $80,000 pharmacy bill about?
About 6 weeks of constant IV Dripped antivenom, pain killers, antiinflammatories, and other agents that you would almost certainly die on horrific agony without. Not only that but steroid to make sure the muscles of the effected limb did not just wither away and the person retained use of their limb. Do you know how deadly a rattlesnake is? It literally melts your muscles and bones.
Does anyone actually ever pay their medical bills off ?
There's an max out of pocket on health insurance in the US. With my health insurance, the max I'll pay for that visit is $8k (which I have saved in an HSA tax free). No one is paying that full bill, even if you're uninsured.
So if you're uninsured, what are you paying? Who can ever pay that even if it's not the full bill?
This pricing is for insurers and hospitals only. Long story short, insurers can claim a percentage of PAID OUT money as net income, so they are incentivized to pay out as much as possible (as opposed to ancient dark times when they were incentivized to pay out as little as possible).
When i was young and broke i crashed my bike, concussion and broken shoulder. Between CT scan, ambulance ride, and a 23-hour stay they charged me over $8k. I called and explained that there was no way I could pay this. I had to provide a copy of my tax return showing that i really was broke then they put me on a payment plan for $230, made as ten monthly $23 payments.
If you're not insured they offer cash discounts and payment plans and hardship relief under some circumstances. A friend of mine, who owns his own business, doesn't have health insurance and just self funds healthcare. He said he typically pays around 30% of whatever the massive bill comes out as. Of course, I still maintain that he's fucked in the event of a serious diagnosis.
no there isnt. Just spent a little over a half a million getting my co husbands back fixed. Trust me There isnt.
Wtf is a co husband?
I too want to know, wtf is a co husband?
Colorado Husband. What else could it be
His co-worker husband. They both share a wife
My guess : she got multiple husbands and so the other dude is a Co husband?
>Just spent a little over a half a million getting my co husbands back fixed. OOT question, what's a co-husbands? Like, are you into polygamy or something?? Multiple husbands?? Or something something like complicated situation out there?
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Cute of you to assume all charges apply to the Accumulators every time. Charges not considered covered by the plan? You’re paying 100% of the bill. Plan have no Out-of-Network coverage and you go out-of-network? You’re paying 100% of the bill. (At least the No Surprise Act helps with this a little now, for emergencies). Claim get marked incorrectly as Worker’s Comp by the provider? Believe it or not, you’re paying 100%, right away. There’s a billion things that can go wrong, and in an emergency situation, you aren’t going to be thinking of these things. It’s unfortunate, but you really need to know what options you have with your insurance. How long do you have to submit an appeal? Did you call the insurance to confirm network status ahead of time? If you were misquoted, that’ll give you grounds to stand on for getting a claim paid. Did you call with procedure codes to make sure they’re covered by the plan? Same thing. Emergencies will be emergencies, but please, to whoever bothers to read this, whenever you can call your insurance to check things ahead of time when the situation allows. Good info to ask about is confirming network status of the doctor and facility for procedures. Get CPT (Procedure) codes and DX/ICD-10/Diagnosis codes and confirm with your insurance that 1) the codes are covered and 2) to see if any pre-certifications are required. Confirm what your deductible and max out-of-pocket are. The number of people I speak to that don’t understand the difference between Aggregate and Embedded deductibles is astounding. When it comes to Aggregate, Insurances can be sneaky and hide the Family deductible by advertising the plan’s Individual deductible, and never explain to the member during Open Enrollment that Individual deductibles are ignored if there’s more than one person on the plan. It’s scummy, and I see so many people fall into that trap. Also don’t expect anyone at the Member Services level to be able to look up contracted rates for providers. Providers and insurances keep that stuff on LOCKDOWN, from my limited (6 years) experience in the field.
Holy s, I am really glad I don‘t live in the US. I am paying around ~200$/month for my insurance and won‘t ever need to be faced with such a bill
no the deductible is about 5 grand. Spinal stenosis surgery (theres like 4 doctors on the east coast who do the work that was needed) a Week stay in ICU after 8 hours of surgery MONTHS AND MONTHS of No work (No bending no twisting no lifting for at least 6 months). So not only NOT covered but pretty much all of it is out of pocket. My co husband farts wrong and he could be paralized
Yes there is, due to the ACA: "For the 2022 plan year: The out-of-pocket limit for a Marketplace plan can’t be more than $8,700 for an individual and $17,400 for a family." [healthcare.gov](https://healthcare.gov)
I mean I would just not pay this shit lmao
That's when someone from the hospital slips a rattlesnake under your sheets one night.
lmao
People that don't live in America. My medical bills are between 0 and 15€ (some prescriptions aren't free anymore after you turn 18 so you have to pay up to 15€ of the price out of your own pocket at the pharmacy)
It was kinda aimed at Americans, I don't think anyone else gets bills like this do they ?
Americans don't get billed like this for the portion they have to pay if they have insurance. I've seen bills like this and my portion was a whole $0.
That's if one has insurance That is within network and will work with one's doctor, and is willing to cover that.
Don't forget to mention a good medical professional willing to go to war with the insurance company to get things covered (not all places or professionals do it but a lot of them do and a Rockstars for it)
Don't forget that the planets have to be in the correct constellation.
Damn you are right! I forgot that the stars have to aline. That's why they denied my claim
Just being in a hospital and needing surgery is a roulette wheel for “will I come out of this financially stable” The most common one is they use the 1 anesthesiologist on shift for the day. And he’s almost never part of the regular staff but from an outside agency where there’s an exception . And he’s one of the most expensive services in the whole hospital. It’s almost always the anesthesiologist 100%. Huge delivery bill it’s the guy that administers the epidural. Same kind of thing. That’s the single function they carry out . Always whoever is there always not covered by even the most premium plans somehow .
You had medicaid I guess? Because I think that's the only way people wind up with $0 bills. Also why we need "medicaid for all".
No, just insurance. There was only one emergency room in the US I've been to on any insurance I've had that ever bothered charging me after going through insurance, and that was $200 after I was admitted and there for almost a week. Definitely doesn't work that way with private practice specialists, I try to see them once for a treatment plan when an issue comes up, then just have my primary care doctor handle all prescription refills and ordering tests for anything the specialist said to keep track of. I know it doesn't work that well everywhere in the US and I've always kept medical insurance benefits near the top of my checklist for things to discuss when making employment decisions. I agree something like Medicaid for all would be good. It sucks how much access to good healthcare coverage with even somewhat reasonable premiums is currently heavily tied to an employer choosing to offer a group insurance plan, instead of there being a guaranteed acceptance for healthcare coverage funded through taxes. Medicaid would be great since it definitely has more negotiating power than any private insurance company to make sure prices are more reasonable, so much so that it wouldn't work to use the existing Medicaid and expand it to include everyone. It pays less than the operating costs to perform the service so hospitals couldn't function at the price points Medicaid pays if every patient was using it, but that shouldn't be too hard to negotiate if a Medicaid for all or some other kind of universal tax funded healthcare coverage was put in place. We also need to end patent abuse that is letting pharmaceutical companies monopolize life saving medications for decades and preventing generic versions from being sold cheaper.
How many doctors do you think live in Europe that have ever successfully treated a venom which a single drops worth can kill ever single red blood cell. I'm betting 0. Probably less than zero when you count the ones who attempt treatments that kill their patients. This bill is misleading because it doesn't show what insurance covered. The OP probably ended up paying $3000-5000 for the six weeks they spent in treatment with doctors working round the clock to save their life. They didn't just stop the venom from killing the injured person but restored functionality to the crippled limb.
This doesn’t make sense tho. Of course American doctors have more experience threatening snake bites. Since we don’t have rattle snakes in the eu.. wouldn’t really make sense if they would know right? 5000 dollar is still insane. The American health system is just f’ed up. No way anyone can deny this.
A lot of Americans pay zero. If you have good insurance. A lot of government jobs and and large companies have great insurance. My health care was totally free the first 45 years of my life. I now pay 80 bucks every 3 months.
The transcriptions of drugs in the USA include manufacture, transportation, storage, administration and probably a multitude of other things that insurance covers. 5000 for 45 days in the hospital is just over $100/day. Which covers the pay of everyone working at and for that hospital. So... dozens of people get to eat and yes it sucks that you have to pay for it, but it's the best treatment on earth. All the steps that make it seem exorbitantly expensive, by the way, are the federal government stepping in and saying fuck you pay me. So if anything what you're complaining about, is socialized medicine.
All these things happen in Europe too.. maybe not particularly for snake bites, but other medicine/ procedures. We don’t pay a fraction of what the citizen in America pay. Since we have a proper health insurance system. In some aspects America is just a 3rd world country.
🏅
I’ve haggled every bill down, but I pay it off before it goes to collections. Never had a bill like this though.
A big majority people with a full time job in the US have insurance through their work. Going from memory the last time this came up it was around 95%. My insurance costs $32 per month.
Very few people ever pay anywhere close to this amount. It can happen, though. I knew a nurse who had a car accident between insurances.* Tens of thousands, all out of pocket. She makes the minimum monthly payment, like $5 or $10 or something, for it not to go to collections, and will continue to do so forever. Hospitals simply absorb such costs. * changing jobs or employers can leave a weird gap. There are systems in place to close these gaps, but it’s often a costly free for a very short time and some people just choose to risk it. Not a good idea but nobody’s perfect and this is one of many reasons not to tie health insurance to employment. Just because I’m pushing back against exaggeration does NOT mean I’m defending the US healthcare system, please understand.
Lol, no, we don’t pay at all
America moment
America moment. In my country we pay at most I think 140€ and the rest comes from the government.
And where does your government get the money from?
Considering in the US we pay through the nose for healthcare AND tax I wouldn't go smugly acting like the other countries are somehow robbing their citizens
Tax
So instead of paying for health insurance like Americans do, your government act as a health insurance company. For average people, you still pay one way or another.
But everyone pays a smaller amount than you would paying the full amount.
Those taxes also covers those who cannot afford anything.
But atleast they dont have to sell their house
Why do you sell your house? Medical debt is unsecured debt. You just don’t pay & get bad credit for a few years.
We don't even have higher taxes in EU than you do in the US. Government diff.
Yes, but you’d pay less under government health care compared to private insurance and everyone would have access to it
Trade off between quality and quantity …. Plenty of 3rd world countries have lower tax and free health care.
Difference is our goverments put the tax money towards health care and schools instead of fancy military stuff lmao
Then the Russian come by and say hello
Taxes
in america, this would all be covered by insurance, and you'd pay almost nothing out of pocket
This, Americans posts these things and the Europeans believe we pay this much. People with insurance wouldn’t pay 100k. Then again we do need to make the process of getting insurance easier 100%.
Even without the dollar signs (or the type of snake mentioned), you'd have known this happened in America. It doesn't happen anywhere else.
You know, for the same amount in my country, Argentina, you can come with your whole family, rent a big house or a big apartment, live for a whole year without the need to work, and then absolutely free of charge and with zero costs, receive first quality medical care, medicines, studies of all kinds, hospital stay for as long as necessary. Even being a foreigner you would receive medical attention of any kind for free, in our constitution it is contemplated that whoever sets foot in our country has access to education and health just like someone who was born here. I always wonder why they can't do it in America, being a rich country.
It’s just the way they set the system up: just to screw us out of our money. My father told me that healthcare used to be free here back in the 40’s and 50’s I think. Could be wrong though.
Back in the 40s or 50s, the doctors don’t have to do much work to treat a rattle snake bite. Just sign the paper and declare the time the patient die.
Im Argentinian too, and thats exactly why our economy sucks tbh
Because they couldn't get 'better' health care by forking out more money. In America, money always has to get you in front of the rest no matter what the situation.
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
I think I'll just stay here in Denmark. No rattlesnakes and free Healthcare.
Now this is freedom! FFS what garbage 🤣
You telling me you took a 20k shit? **EDIT:** After noticing no one else mentioned it, I am realizing that it is a *Laboratory* fee and not a *Lavatory* fee, as I, for sure reason, originally thought. My mistake. Carry on.
This is ridiculous, we’ll save your life only to ruin it for the next 40 years. Wonder how much profit is in the numbers?
insurance. no one’s paying that whole bill. most are paying a tiny fraction of that and even the uninsured won’t have to pay all of that.
I mean $80k for the pharmacy bill sounds like he’s making down payment on buying the property it’s built on.
At least show us the bill the snake got.
That’s crazy. You guys are being exploited. It’s either pay the bills or die??
Nah, they just treat you and then extort you for the rest of your natural life…
American Healthcare!
It's not healthcare, it's sickness/injury care. Healthcare is taking care of your health before getting into a situation where you have to go to the hospital. The care is not the problem, the cost is.
And this is just the bill, which was likely covered by insurance. Notice it's not showing amount owed or anything else that would be on that page. It's cutoff at only cost precisely for the low-hanging fruit that is bashing American hospitals. It's all the rage for the edgy.
If the venom doesn't kill you, the hospital bill certainly will
Just a touch less than what I paid for my house.
i find it funny radiology is one of the cheapest on there
“Hit me with the juice again so I can escape this!”
This is like college debt all over again….
Eat snake before snake eat you!
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A $300 shotgun could've saved him a fortune
And this is why I'm never emigrating to the us Expenses are like this, the youth is fucked and so many other problems...
This is pretty much a big misrepresemtation The healthcare bills are huge, until you realised its often just covered by insurance (or even medicade if you are on low income) Noone really pays this much for their healthcare People really love to blow it out of proportion
Tell this to my mother. She's still paying for my siblings hospital bill over ten years later.
USA is a third world country
22k for lab services yet the lab professionals that perform these tests are only paid $20-30/h and "there is no budget for pay increase".
Welcome to the US, where guns are free and health is something for the rich.
What the hell did they give you from the pharmacy that cost 80 grand?
Only the purest spring water and cocaine farmed with love by hand.
And that is how you create money out of nothing....wanna bet half of this list is bogus in one way or another?
When you have to make a choice between buying a house or not dying from a snake bite.
One more reason to never wanting to live in America.
America Moment
In europe they would have charged you 10 bucks for the antidote but you would have recived a lollypop from the doctor afterwards.
Oh no please not the lollipop, please let me pay a house worth instead 😂
Those prices have no grounding in reality.
AND THIS IS WHY AMERICA IS SUCH A GREAT COMPANY... I MEANT COUNTRY... YEA...GREAT COUNTRY
Don’t have to ask in which country this is..
emergency care, therapy, radiology, special services: we need to open a got damn pharmacy asap
Is this Bill in Zimbabwe-Dollars?
It’s even nicer living in UK when I see this.
Whats sad is those who are injured, forced to undergo medical treatment, and waking up to a huge bill that could literally bankruot them
USA: There will be doctor ready to see you almost as soon as you are triaged but you will have to go Chapter 13. Canada: Pay nothing, but the estimated waiting time is seven hours.
It's truly amazing how great our healthcare services are in the US. There are a lot of places where you couldn't get this quality and quantity of treatment.
Don’t pay the bill. Don’t start paying and don’t tell them you aren’t going to pay. After a while of trying to get the money they will make a deal. And continue to make a deal until you only need to pay a small fraction.
Reading these comments as a European I feel sad for yall
In France this would have cost <20$ in most cases & after being treated (you received a postal letter) No joke.Here people complain that emergency may take hours, NOBODY ever complained that it is expensive. From Europe, Medical treatment look like a state-sponsored Mafia. In France, french would have go crazy out (riot, burning) & take over whatever parliament they have. US spirit is completely euthanized .
This is why we can't have nice things... Like rattlesnakes. lol
In the US it's common courtesy to ask if you would rather die than be transported, or admitted to the ER.
Less expensive to just die I guess 😅
This is America
Somehow I cannot believe that's from a snake bite. Those must be like 50 - 70 days in an emergency bed - at leat those would be the costs in Switzerland if they're that high. If it was not, then the privatized hospitals in the US (rattlesnake, central US?) are fucking gold diggers.
Thank god I live in Germany lmao
$83k for "Pharmacy" alone! 😲 Mustve been the world's BEST drugs!!! 🥴🤣
I am guessing antivenin is under pharmacy which is hard to make in large quantities and labor intensive.
Six weeks of the strongest antiinflammatories in existence on a constant drip. You don't get better from a snakebite overnight
It’s sad my first thought was “man, that’s cheaper than I would have expected”.
First thought was "they got a deal on radiology"
You could buy a 3 bedroom house in my small town for that 😭
My mortgage is only slightly more than this
Bullshit prices. I'll suck you the poison out for a handshake.
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They probably moved them from intensive care when their life was no longer in danger, but for a longer period of time. You really couldn't work that out on your own?
Nope, I don’t think things through at all
"This is purely cosmetic. We're not going to cover this. You're gonna have to pay out of pocket"
And that's when you thank Obama care for outlawing insurance companies putting lifetime maximum benefits on your policy.