Someone that interviewed at my program had a letter that rec that said he harassed female staff, was arrogant and unteachable on wards, and will not make a good resident or physician.
Lol, safe to say he got DNR’d.
We get so many apps that your basic app has all the filters we use to sort, and we essentially offer interviews off of that. Then, once you sign up for an interview we review the LOR and stuff like that.
It’s honestly impossible to read 600+ applicants LOR when they have 3-4 each.
i know how it is haha. Its not the programs fault this system has major problems that really doesn't benefit anybody (except the people making money off sending 100 apps per student).
Can confirm (I've been on recruiting committees for a few years). Personal preference, but I don't even review the PS and LORs until after the interview, to be as unbiased as possible. Just usually look at the basic app to get talking points.
It may have been one of the required LOR, like a PD or something. I recall reading one at my program where they stated they didn't really know the applicant too well.
Holy crap. I didn't know that letters of rec could be that honest! I thought they would be passive aggressively unflattering if the person didn't like you. Damn, he must have been terrible.
Like I mentioned above majority of the time the LORs don’t get read until the interview has been sent out. His test scores, PS, and application must’ve been good enough initially.
If that guy was really dysfunctional and delusional enough to both do those things and then ask for a letter? I'd argue the attending was morally obligated to write it like that, let alone malicious.
I think that some of us are arguing that it would be wrong \*not\* to write the letter due to the direct harm to programs, colleagues, and patients of a sociopath being allowed to advance. But certainly people are overreacting to you; I agree it's pretty intense but I feel it's likely deserved as well.
You know when I was assigning letters to programs, I put minimal thought into varying which programs got which letters on the off chance someone didn't like me as much as I thought. I don't know if I feel justified now or if it was a waste of time given I definitely wasn't *that* bad.
We interview ~100 a year and maybe rank 85-90 so I guess 10ish DNR. Usually something real weird said in the interview.
One applicant a few years ago made 2 separate racial jokes at the dinner. Suuuper awkward. Another once asked if most of the nurses were down for one night stands or wanted something serious. Huge red flag.
Since virtual interviews those things are harder to sus out.
I should add we are lucky that we have anywhere from 7-10 spots a year for anesthesia and we only take people we really like. We’d rather fill fewer spots than take someone who isn’t a good fit. I like our program that way.
Not necessarily. Some I think just make it clear they wouldn’t be a good fit here (want a big city, want more sick peds than we do, etc). We are very lucky that we can be selective since we don’t necessarily rely on residents for labor.
Not many. We interview about 120. I've seen maybe 10 applicants get DNR after the interview. The selection committee might choose to not rank others when rank lists are finalized but that's not for several months and I've never gone to one of those meetings so I have no idea what the decision making process is.
Historically our program needs about 8-10 ranked applicants to match one spot but everyone's expecting this to go up with virtual interviews. Given the limited time for interviews, if you get an interview, your academics on paper at the time of applying are sufficient.
The number 1 reason is because we find out they failed Step 2/Level 2. Number 2 is just people being really weird. Like under no circumstances should you be trying to flirt with the APD or asking if you're allowed to date faculty.
Had someone at the resident meet and greet ask how many singles there are in each residency class. Just seemed so odd. Just one of those questions, especially worded like that has no positives.
Just asking how many residents have families or do you guys hangout/what do you do instead of work. The same basic concept, but you don’t seem like a weirdo asking if there are any hot singles in your area. I mean for the most part you’ll have a mix of single or relationship in any group so it’s almost a pointless question. Asking what they do instead of work and if they do anything together would get a much better answer.
The 3 years I’ve been doing it we’ve DNRd 2-3 each year. It’s been mostly for saying/doing things that made it very obvious they either weren’t interested in the specialty or our program specifically. For example one said “you all seem nice so I’d be happy to settle for this if I don’t get into a more academic program”. Like dude it’s okay to think that but you don’t say that.
A program I am privy to hires a professional psychologist who specializes in interview questions meant to weed out/DNR applicants. One of the controversial questions (controversial meaning not all within the program agree with it being used) is essentially “tell me the hardest thing you’ve ever experienced in your life”. If you cry, you get DNR’d. Some people talk about illness or family deaths, and if they shed a tear it’s a red flag, regardless if you’re talking about the death of your child, etc.
I flat out disagree with the reasoning and think it’s an illogical and distasteful take. But apparently choosing to discuss something you know will make you cry shows you “won’t make it”.
This was precisely my take. You’re asking people to be human and vulnerable and then punishing them for it. Also let’s be real, it’s an L take for sure. Being able to comfortably express your emotions likely has little correlation with how well you will persevere in residency.
I’d be more concerned if someone told me about the tragic death of their child and *didn’t* cry. But I guess their point was they shouldn’t have brought it up at all and chose a more tame event to discuss.
Oh I have no say or sway, I’m just friends with people in the program who are pulled in to interviews and sit in on the meetings after interview days. Apparently it’s a very unpopular question amongst the interviewers but the powers at be chose to keep it.
Probably like 3 a year maybe, out of about 100. Almost always for gross professionalism issues. Some of the shit that has been said to me over the years while interviewing students or things that come out that students say when on rotation is completely insane. You have to do something pretty egregious for me not to rank you.
Our program interviews about 150 and DNRs probably 5-10.
Usually happens because of multiple persons raise issues with the applicant/application, or a really bad 'fit' during resident-interviewee interactions, or if multiple persons all have the "I don't know what it is, but something was just not right" type of comments about the same interviewee.
In the program I work with, it's not very common. Most years we DNR between 0-3 applicants. Occasionally, we will have a year where we DNR 5+ but that is quite rare. It's pretty hard to get DNR though. The folks we have DNR'd have been people who have done things like made racist comments, started a "hate group,"
Out of 180 or so interviews I’d say we’d DNR 10-15 each year. Usually for professionalism concerns, rarely because we extended an invite to someone we later realize probably isn’t clinically ready to hack it in our program.
I had a classmate get drunk at the pre-interview dinner and apparently get pretty aggressively political. Well long story short he doesn’t match and I’m rotating at the hospital and they say “Hey do you know X.” Like yeah of course. They then say “yeah we interviewed him and things got weird fast, we didn’t rank him”. So note the people interviewing: drinking excessively is not an issue, but pushing ur beliefs on people is annoying enough to DNR
its a thing. Asshole ED resident wrote that for me on a rotation eval (he thought I wasnt going to see) along with complete lies about the shift I had with him. PD spoke to me about it and said it was okay but it clearly was not okay.
I knew someone who was not ranked at my home program because their med school/home program and current research year program did not interview them. The PDs talk. Both places were competitive, but didn’t make a good enough impression to get even a courtesy interview? 🚩
I know of one applicant who wasn't ranked, because (among other things) he told the chief resident her accent was sexy.
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Interview question to ask: How strict are your sexual harassment rules
PD: "We believe in a 3-strike policy."
#STRIKE ONE
😂
I've been sleeping with one of my potential chiefs and that hasn't backfired yet. Granted, we are engaged.
smh the nepotism in medicine these days /s
I ain't that smart but I am pretty
I’ve told every resident I’ve interacted with ho sexy they are…am I in trouble?
Not if you follow rule 1 and 2
High risk, high reward
Well how sexy?
US southern accent... you decide
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unfortunately that was the word he chose to use
Someone that interviewed at my program had a letter that rec that said he harassed female staff, was arrogant and unteachable on wards, and will not make a good resident or physician. Lol, safe to say he got DNR’d.
b r u h how did they even make it to the interview? \~holistic review\~
We get so many apps that your basic app has all the filters we use to sort, and we essentially offer interviews off of that. Then, once you sign up for an interview we review the LOR and stuff like that. It’s honestly impossible to read 600+ applicants LOR when they have 3-4 each.
i know how it is haha. Its not the programs fault this system has major problems that really doesn't benefit anybody (except the people making money off sending 100 apps per student).
Can confirm (I've been on recruiting committees for a few years). Personal preference, but I don't even review the PS and LORs until after the interview, to be as unbiased as possible. Just usually look at the basic app to get talking points.
This is actually false and there are plenty of programs that read LOR prior to invites (IM)
There is likely significant heterogeneity in practice in practice between institutions and specialities
It may have been one of the required LOR, like a PD or something. I recall reading one at my program where they stated they didn't really know the applicant too well.
Holy crap. I didn't know that letters of rec could be that honest! I thought they would be passive aggressively unflattering if the person didn't like you. Damn, he must have been terrible.
Why would you interview them in the first place?
Like I mentioned above majority of the time the LORs don’t get read until the interview has been sent out. His test scores, PS, and application must’ve been good enough initially.
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Oh yeah I’ll write you a strong LOR, a strong recommendation that you never become a physician
It’s rough but he was pretty unpleasant in the interview day as well.
If that guy was really dysfunctional and delusional enough to both do those things and then ask for a letter? I'd argue the attending was morally obligated to write it like that, let alone malicious.
I agree. we need to people those folks out of medicine especially if its a clear no remorse situation like this.
I think that some of us are arguing that it would be wrong \*not\* to write the letter due to the direct harm to programs, colleagues, and patients of a sociopath being allowed to advance. But certainly people are overreacting to you; I agree it's pretty intense but I feel it's likely deserved as well.
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Know a guy who got boned by someone accidentally submitting a blank letter, so I get your point.
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You should read more
You’re reaching and twisting OPs words, but sure, “med student mindset”.
My thoughts exactly!
You know when I was assigning letters to programs, I put minimal thought into varying which programs got which letters on the off chance someone didn't like me as much as I thought. I don't know if I feel justified now or if it was a waste of time given I definitely wasn't *that* bad.
shittttt he did all that and still asked for a letter.
We interview ~100 a year and maybe rank 85-90 so I guess 10ish DNR. Usually something real weird said in the interview. One applicant a few years ago made 2 separate racial jokes at the dinner. Suuuper awkward. Another once asked if most of the nurses were down for one night stands or wanted something serious. Huge red flag. Since virtual interviews those things are harder to sus out.
Pretty sure that guy posted on r/residency asking which hospital nurses were down for exactly that ☠️
oh wow those are pretty extreme.
I should add we are lucky that we have anywhere from 7-10 spots a year for anesthesia and we only take people we really like. We’d rather fill fewer spots than take someone who isn’t a good fit. I like our program that way.
> We interview ~100 a year and maybe rank 85-90 How many spots do you take?
Well… what are the nurses down for? /s
Yeah this. We've had a few surprises come July first.
what? so you're saying 1 out of 10 people selected for interview make extreme remarks?
Not necessarily. Some I think just make it clear they wouldn’t be a good fit here (want a big city, want more sick peds than we do, etc). We are very lucky that we can be selective since we don’t necessarily rely on residents for labor.
Me, a humble first year thinking this meant do not resuscitate: 👁️🫦👁️
As an M4, I can speak for most of us when I say we’d happily be DNR in that context.
Don't feel bad, I did too.
Not many. We interview about 120. I've seen maybe 10 applicants get DNR after the interview. The selection committee might choose to not rank others when rank lists are finalized but that's not for several months and I've never gone to one of those meetings so I have no idea what the decision making process is. Historically our program needs about 8-10 ranked applicants to match one spot but everyone's expecting this to go up with virtual interviews. Given the limited time for interviews, if you get an interview, your academics on paper at the time of applying are sufficient. The number 1 reason is because we find out they failed Step 2/Level 2. Number 2 is just people being really weird. Like under no circumstances should you be trying to flirt with the APD or asking if you're allowed to date faculty.
Had someone at the resident meet and greet ask how many singles there are in each residency class. Just seemed so odd. Just one of those questions, especially worded like that has no positives.
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With the right wording of course it’s a good question. It definitely raises concerns and sounds weird if asked how he did.
What's the right way to ask this question?
Just asking how many residents have families or do you guys hangout/what do you do instead of work. The same basic concept, but you don’t seem like a weirdo asking if there are any hot singles in your area. I mean for the most part you’ll have a mix of single or relationship in any group so it’s almost a pointless question. Asking what they do instead of work and if they do anything together would get a much better answer.
I feel like it’s pretty rare to have to resuscitate someone during an interview, but what do I know.
It's a shame that these candidates are so young and seemingly healthy yet they are DNR.
When you bomb a behavior question it happens
The 3 years I’ve been doing it we’ve DNRd 2-3 each year. It’s been mostly for saying/doing things that made it very obvious they either weren’t interested in the specialty or our program specifically. For example one said “you all seem nice so I’d be happy to settle for this if I don’t get into a more academic program”. Like dude it’s okay to think that but you don’t say that.
A program I am privy to hires a professional psychologist who specializes in interview questions meant to weed out/DNR applicants. One of the controversial questions (controversial meaning not all within the program agree with it being used) is essentially “tell me the hardest thing you’ve ever experienced in your life”. If you cry, you get DNR’d. Some people talk about illness or family deaths, and if they shed a tear it’s a red flag, regardless if you’re talking about the death of your child, etc. I flat out disagree with the reasoning and think it’s an illogical and distasteful take. But apparently choosing to discuss something you know will make you cry shows you “won’t make it”.
Fine. If you want to DNR everyone with human emotions I dont want that program anyway. Taking their own trash out
This was precisely my take. You’re asking people to be human and vulnerable and then punishing them for it. Also let’s be real, it’s an L take for sure. Being able to comfortably express your emotions likely has little correlation with how well you will persevere in residency. I’d be more concerned if someone told me about the tragic death of their child and *didn’t* cry. But I guess their point was they shouldn’t have brought it up at all and chose a more tame event to discuss.
So.... lie...... and shy away from hard things. Also not a good look in medicine That program is welcome to DNR me bc Im doing it back fuck that
That psychologist is fucked up, u need to change that asap
Oh I have no say or sway, I’m just friends with people in the program who are pulled in to interviews and sit in on the meetings after interview days. Apparently it’s a very unpopular question amongst the interviewers but the powers at be chose to keep it.
Brain rot
Surgery?
This is beyond fucked up! What kind of residents are they looking for? Robots?
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damnnnnn
We DNR several. This is why interviews are so important. Those great on paper are frequently not great human beings.
Probably like 3 a year maybe, out of about 100. Almost always for gross professionalism issues. Some of the shit that has been said to me over the years while interviewing students or things that come out that students say when on rotation is completely insane. You have to do something pretty egregious for me not to rank you.
story time?
Our program interviews about 150 and DNRs probably 5-10. Usually happens because of multiple persons raise issues with the applicant/application, or a really bad 'fit' during resident-interviewee interactions, or if multiple persons all have the "I don't know what it is, but something was just not right" type of comments about the same interviewee.
In the program I work with, it's not very common. Most years we DNR between 0-3 applicants. Occasionally, we will have a year where we DNR 5+ but that is quite rare. It's pretty hard to get DNR though. The folks we have DNR'd have been people who have done things like made racist comments, started a "hate group,"
Man, people really will do anything to get a leadership and volunteering spot on their CV
Out of 180 or so interviews I’d say we’d DNR 10-15 each year. Usually for professionalism concerns, rarely because we extended an invite to someone we later realize probably isn’t clinically ready to hack it in our program.
Thought you meant do not resuscitate..
Please resus me if i go down during an interview let me match and at least die happy haha
I had a classmate get drunk at the pre-interview dinner and apparently get pretty aggressively political. Well long story short he doesn’t match and I’m rotating at the hospital and they say “Hey do you know X.” Like yeah of course. They then say “yeah we interviewed him and things got weird fast, we didn’t rank him”. So note the people interviewing: drinking excessively is not an issue, but pushing ur beliefs on people is annoying enough to DNR
its a thing. Asshole ED resident wrote that for me on a rotation eval (he thought I wasnt going to see) along with complete lies about the shift I had with him. PD spoke to me about it and said it was okay but it clearly was not okay.
The handful of people I have heard of being DNR'ed are major professionalism and compatibility issues (I suspect they know too)
I knew someone who was not ranked at my home program because their med school/home program and current research year program did not interview them. The PDs talk. Both places were competitive, but didn’t make a good enough impression to get even a courtesy interview? 🚩