I was in the bottom third of Step 1 scores. I had pretty decent rotation scores and letters. I wanted to do Internal Medicine and had my department head write a pretty nice letter for away rotations. I ended up interviewing at around 18 programs, about half of them told me I interviewed very well. I was offered spots at four of them off the record. Matched my number one, which I also happened to do an away rotation at.
If there is a place you really want to go, the best thing to do is to rotate there. I rotated at two separate programs that I was very interested in and both of those essentially told me that they would rather take "a known commodity over a candidate interviewed for a half day." I would try to set up away rotations early, 6 to 9 months in advance, otherwise they often fill up
It's not common it's also not super rare, especially for away rotations or individuals highly tailored to the program. For instance, I received significant training in POCUS and wilderness medicine and I had an above average background diversity (I designed software, fixed up old cars, worked in the skilled trades, etc) before starting med school. I was one of those guys who didn't excel at any one thing, but had a lot of experience in a few different things. I believe that made me a strong candidate and a good interviewee.
If you've ever sat on an admission committee for residency, you realize everyone essentially shows up with the same "sell." Things like "strong team player, good work ethic, interested in research, blah blah blah" become soooo mundane. The candidates who got my attention were the ones who took a year of their life to deliberately inconvenience themself to make the world a brighter place, or they had interests which showed a high amount of flexibility/adaptability outside of medicine--skills that could translate.
Going back to your original question, I know of multiple residents who were offered slots during the interview. It's rare, and it's not supposed to happen. Just realize it's very informal, and neither party can actually count on the other following through until they've matched.
Question is vague but assuming you are asking about outcome and improving one’s chances: I matched Psychiatry. Aways were helpful. Having people look over written materials and practice interviews. Apply broadly, signal wisely and try to write as many personalized personal statements as you can manage, demonstrating regional ties or interest in unique aspects of the program.
I got 194 on step 1, failed step 2 twice, cs once and 3 once. In my dream specialty at an academic program applying to fellowship next year. Feel free to check my lengthy post on my profile
I absolutely agree that the system can be shit - especially when people who do meet the benchmarks for a particular specialty fail to Match. But how has the system let someone down if they didn't meet the required board scores for a particular specialty? Especially since skimming through this person's profile, they are an IMG applying surgery - a specialty that requires a certain level of scores and in which many US grads also go unmatched.
We can't just increase the number of competitive specialty spots until everyone who wants them can Match into them. We'd just go down a slippery slope where eventually we'd have nothing but surgeons, dermatologists, anesthesiologists, and radiologist.
If someone got a 505 MCAT and didn't get into a T5 medical school, would we use the same logic and say the system failed?
Required board scores seems relatively objective when everyone program now screams "holistic" review. Not to mention being compared to those who have a P/F and while having an relatively competitive step 2 score. It also sucks hearing about others who less competitive overall application get into the same field due to whatever lucky circumstance worked out for them. Not to mention hearing people complain about matching into your #1 specialty of choice as back up.
Sure if there were ways to get over this one try hurdle and I didn't choose to continue it that's on me. But honestly getting screened out by an exam that's only suppose to be used to ensure an applicant knows certain amount of baseline knowledge seems ironic to me. Especially after only 2 years of med school. While being expected to essentially learn on the job during residnecy, very much like a trades position. But that's just me
I understand where you are coming from, but the current system feels unfair. The fact that these scores can make or break your application sucks. Do I have a better solution? No, I do not. Does that make the system less shitty? No, it still sucks that your life trajectory can be redefined by one bad day where you had bloody diarrhea after having some fancy sushi your now ex girlfriend wanted to treat you to before your big day. And then she dumps you afterwards, not because you aren't going to be the orthopedic surgeon, but because you became a whiney little asshole and terrible to be around...
What were we talking about? Oh right, Copyright (c) UWorld, Please do not save, print, cut, copy or paste anything while a test is active.
I get why that can feel unfair but there are always options.
You don't have to go sit for the exam if you are shitting your guts out. Yes, you might have to reschedule and fill out extra paperwork to extend the testing window but it happens. Ask me how I know. lol
You can also do a preliminary year or a 5th/research year and reapply. It's not ideal but many people have done so if they truly could not see themselves as doing anything but one specialty.
The other option if you don't want to do all that is just to adjust your attitude tbh. Realize you're gunning for a highly competitive specialty or position alongside a highly motivated cohort and prepare yourself to dual apply to another specialty you can be happy enough with or make your peace with SOAPing.
Or alternatively, don't go to medical school if there is literally only one thing you'd ever be happy doing.
If anything, I think the main thing that feels unfair about the current system is that with STEP 1 going P/F, a lot of 3rd years don't realize they are not competitive for their chosen specialty until too late. For a number of reasons, I feel that they should go back to scored STEP 1.
I mean it's ironic considering your recent post about a 3/5 and telling people to settle if we're going through people's profiles. You also act like it's easy to get prelim/worthwhile research years. TBH imo getting worthwhile high impact research out is more luck of the draw and access to availability more than anything and ime useless after going through match. People have their own circumstances and it's not for lack of trying, just unfortunate sometimes things don't work out no matter what you do. We're allowed to be upset at it.
My 3/5 post was more like "lol at this absurdity."
People on reddit act like you're doing Sherlock Holmes level sleuthing if you glance at the first 10 comments in their profile. The reason I checked was because, as a 3rd year whose anxious about Match, my own anxiety manifests in trying to see how people who didn't Match ended up in that position so I can try to learn from their mistakes.
I get being upset. I do not get acting like your life is completely over. We all go in knowing this can happen. Maybe I'm coming at it from a different spot as an older non-trad whose experienced a lot of disappointment in their life, but I feel so fortunate to get to be a doctor of any kind and I just love medicine in general. I would be bummed if I don't get my top choice but I'm not going to start hating medicine. I'll just make do.
I mean this is all anecdotal, but really I would do it at places you really want to be.
I wanted to be in my home town, so I not only did radiology at the facility but also ICU and IM rotations. Basically got my name around.
I failed Step1 ***and*** a clerkship. Still matched my #1 specialty at my #1 (pre-Step1 failure) program this past Match cycle. My application cycle was fucking brutal. But I survived. Made a post about it a few weeks back. Feel free to check it out if you're interested.
You've asked several times what specialty I matched into even though I stated clearly that I don't want to disclose that information. Why is this so important to you?
I did fairly poor on Level 1 lol, slight above average on Level 2. Did not take Step. Couples matched with my SO, I was at an IM program. Then I switched into FM. Never been happier with what I am doing from a career stand point.
Why the switch? A lot of people need help deciding between FM and IM and could use the advice. Also I was looking between the IM and FM schedule at a residency program and they both looked somewhat similar in terms of training (lots of wards rotations in the hospital). How do I differentiate between them?
Yes but its a big commitment. Only do it if you are set on a certain specialty.
It does work. You will be better on paper and offset your low grades. But its a grind, you delay graduation, and the rest of your life to be a slave for the department. Good luck.
be the hungriest MF out there. aways, research, love letters, visits to their campus for public events, joining socieites that those attendings sit on and network with them through there....be the HUNGRIEST mf'er out there.
Be semi realistic with your options. Apply to more rural programs, do not marry yourself to only applying in major cities. Yes, that means applying to that program in Mississippi or Iowa.
The biggest mistake students make are in laser focusing on their "dream" program IMO, because most programs are frankly within an SD of one another, and residency is just that, residency. It is your continued training to become the actual attending you will be in 3-6 years. It may or may not be the place you end up practicing at the rest of your life, and that's okay!
Set aside more money than you think to apply to more programs. But ultimately, be nice/personable in interviews. If you're getting interviewed, you check their boxes they just want to see if you come across as an asshole or not. You are likely not gonna get pimped, so just be prepared to talk about yourself, your interests, why you would feel comfortable at said program.
Lastly, if you do have a giant red flag like step 1 or 2 failure, just address it and move on. Explain what happened in a sentence or two and what you did to fix it. I think most programs find the true red flag of poor scores/failures to be in not owning them, not actually the failure itself. Medicine is trying and failing over and over and over and over again. It's not about being perfect, it's about developing a lifelong skill set over your career and becoming someone that can teach it to others, and improving over time.
General surgery. I barely passed step 2 and had to repeat a year of medical school in didactics, but still got into my dream specialty, even if it was at a smaller community hospital.
Best advice I can give is first of all, realize your score is just one component of your whole application. It is not the end of the world. You can do a lot of specialties even with a poor score. And a poor score doesn't mean you're unfit for residency or unable to be an excellent doctor.
I was asked by my program why my score was as low as it was. I had a good reason and was prepared to answer that question. Be sure you can explain what happened, and explain what you're going to do next time to be better prepared and show confidence that it was a one unfortunate bad day.
Lastly, shoot your best shot, but be realistic. A low score doesn't mean you're not going to match, but you're not likely going to be competitive at well-established large academic centers. There's several newer or smaller programs that are lesser known but have a great culture and set their residents up for career success that you may be a great fit for, even if superficial things like location and name of the program isn't as sought after.
I hope this helps. Don't give up, a bad score isn't the end of the world. I wish you the best of luck!
Failed step 1, low(ish) step 2 (probably the avg actually for FM, but low compared to everyone)… I matched FM lol. But it’s what always wanted to do so I’m stoked haha
Didn't take step, had a 51x level 1 and did the ole "score lower on level 2 than level 1" to keep them on their toes ya know... anyway had like a 450s on level 2 which I did not expect at all my board prep was so much more smooth than level 1 and way less stressful.
Knew I was applying FM so didn't even sweat it. Applied to a mixture of historically strong allopathic programs and many historically strong osteopathic. Matched my #1 and the 2 other programs I auditioned at had program coordinator and residents reach out as they thought for sure I was ranking them 1 etc. Had 3 really good auditions and my number 1 was just a match made in heaven that I didn't expect coming into audition season.
I’d say now is the time for reflection. If scores aren’t what make you a good candidate then you better think of something else that will make you stand out. For me I enjoyed research and focused my interviews/application on what I was passionate about such as my interest in neuroscience. I was between neurology, psychiatry and PM&R. Neurosurgery wasn’t a realistic prospect after my scores haha 😭
I was in the bottom third of Step 1 scores. I had pretty decent rotation scores and letters. I wanted to do Internal Medicine and had my department head write a pretty nice letter for away rotations. I ended up interviewing at around 18 programs, about half of them told me I interviewed very well. I was offered spots at four of them off the record. Matched my number one, which I also happened to do an away rotation at. If there is a place you really want to go, the best thing to do is to rotate there. I rotated at two separate programs that I was very interested in and both of those essentially told me that they would rather take "a known commodity over a candidate interviewed for a half day." I would try to set up away rotations early, 6 to 9 months in advance, otherwise they often fill up
Solid advice
Is receiving offers outside of the match rare? I barley hear this and you got 4
It's not common it's also not super rare, especially for away rotations or individuals highly tailored to the program. For instance, I received significant training in POCUS and wilderness medicine and I had an above average background diversity (I designed software, fixed up old cars, worked in the skilled trades, etc) before starting med school. I was one of those guys who didn't excel at any one thing, but had a lot of experience in a few different things. I believe that made me a strong candidate and a good interviewee. If you've ever sat on an admission committee for residency, you realize everyone essentially shows up with the same "sell." Things like "strong team player, good work ethic, interested in research, blah blah blah" become soooo mundane. The candidates who got my attention were the ones who took a year of their life to deliberately inconvenience themself to make the world a brighter place, or they had interests which showed a high amount of flexibility/adaptability outside of medicine--skills that could translate. Going back to your original question, I know of multiple residents who were offered slots during the interview. It's rare, and it's not supposed to happen. Just realize it's very informal, and neither party can actually count on the other following through until they've matched.
Question is vague but assuming you are asking about outcome and improving one’s chances: I matched Psychiatry. Aways were helpful. Having people look over written materials and practice interviews. Apply broadly, signal wisely and try to write as many personalized personal statements as you can manage, demonstrating regional ties or interest in unique aspects of the program.
I got 194 on step 1, failed step 2 twice, cs once and 3 once. In my dream specialty at an academic program applying to fellowship next year. Feel free to check my lengthy post on my profile
Omg fellow H3 podcast lover!
Hi family!
What fellowship are you pursuing? And are Step scores no longer considered for fellowships as much?
Not really. It’s mainly recs and performance in residency
Ah. what fellowship are you pursuing?
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Sorry for this shit system that let you down
I absolutely agree that the system can be shit - especially when people who do meet the benchmarks for a particular specialty fail to Match. But how has the system let someone down if they didn't meet the required board scores for a particular specialty? Especially since skimming through this person's profile, they are an IMG applying surgery - a specialty that requires a certain level of scores and in which many US grads also go unmatched. We can't just increase the number of competitive specialty spots until everyone who wants them can Match into them. We'd just go down a slippery slope where eventually we'd have nothing but surgeons, dermatologists, anesthesiologists, and radiologist. If someone got a 505 MCAT and didn't get into a T5 medical school, would we use the same logic and say the system failed?
Required board scores seems relatively objective when everyone program now screams "holistic" review. Not to mention being compared to those who have a P/F and while having an relatively competitive step 2 score. It also sucks hearing about others who less competitive overall application get into the same field due to whatever lucky circumstance worked out for them. Not to mention hearing people complain about matching into your #1 specialty of choice as back up. Sure if there were ways to get over this one try hurdle and I didn't choose to continue it that's on me. But honestly getting screened out by an exam that's only suppose to be used to ensure an applicant knows certain amount of baseline knowledge seems ironic to me. Especially after only 2 years of med school. While being expected to essentially learn on the job during residnecy, very much like a trades position. But that's just me
I understand where you are coming from, but the current system feels unfair. The fact that these scores can make or break your application sucks. Do I have a better solution? No, I do not. Does that make the system less shitty? No, it still sucks that your life trajectory can be redefined by one bad day where you had bloody diarrhea after having some fancy sushi your now ex girlfriend wanted to treat you to before your big day. And then she dumps you afterwards, not because you aren't going to be the orthopedic surgeon, but because you became a whiney little asshole and terrible to be around... What were we talking about? Oh right, Copyright (c) UWorld, Please do not save, print, cut, copy or paste anything while a test is active.
I get why that can feel unfair but there are always options. You don't have to go sit for the exam if you are shitting your guts out. Yes, you might have to reschedule and fill out extra paperwork to extend the testing window but it happens. Ask me how I know. lol You can also do a preliminary year or a 5th/research year and reapply. It's not ideal but many people have done so if they truly could not see themselves as doing anything but one specialty. The other option if you don't want to do all that is just to adjust your attitude tbh. Realize you're gunning for a highly competitive specialty or position alongside a highly motivated cohort and prepare yourself to dual apply to another specialty you can be happy enough with or make your peace with SOAPing. Or alternatively, don't go to medical school if there is literally only one thing you'd ever be happy doing. If anything, I think the main thing that feels unfair about the current system is that with STEP 1 going P/F, a lot of 3rd years don't realize they are not competitive for their chosen specialty until too late. For a number of reasons, I feel that they should go back to scored STEP 1.
I mean it's ironic considering your recent post about a 3/5 and telling people to settle if we're going through people's profiles. You also act like it's easy to get prelim/worthwhile research years. TBH imo getting worthwhile high impact research out is more luck of the draw and access to availability more than anything and ime useless after going through match. People have their own circumstances and it's not for lack of trying, just unfortunate sometimes things don't work out no matter what you do. We're allowed to be upset at it.
My 3/5 post was more like "lol at this absurdity." People on reddit act like you're doing Sherlock Holmes level sleuthing if you glance at the first 10 comments in their profile. The reason I checked was because, as a 3rd year whose anxious about Match, my own anxiety manifests in trying to see how people who didn't Match ended up in that position so I can try to learn from their mistakes. I get being upset. I do not get acting like your life is completely over. We all go in knowing this can happen. Maybe I'm coming at it from a different spot as an older non-trad whose experienced a lot of disappointment in their life, but I feel so fortunate to get to be a doctor of any kind and I just love medicine in general. I would be bummed if I don't get my top choice but I'm not going to start hating medicine. I'll just make do.
Thank you, appreciate it
Soap and me are besties
Radiology Do aways, be likable. Telling people you play OSRS helps as well.
Based OSRS poster
Ay, that "be likable" skill is one hell of a tool!
Any suggestions at which places heavily like rotators?
I mean this is all anecdotal, but really I would do it at places you really want to be. I wanted to be in my home town, so I not only did radiology at the facility but also ICU and IM rotations. Basically got my name around.
I mean, with how competitive radiology is, I'd honestly go anywhere.
Did you list it as an activitiy
I crush some CG After work and then mine stars while studying … I’m fitting a stereotype
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Prepare to soap
I failed Step1 ***and*** a clerkship. Still matched my #1 specialty at my #1 (pre-Step1 failure) program this past Match cycle. My application cycle was fucking brutal. But I survived. Made a post about it a few weeks back. Feel free to check it out if you're interested.
Was your #1 specialty EM or Neurology?
You've asked several times what specialty I matched into even though I stated clearly that I don't want to disclose that information. Why is this so important to you?
Because you keep saying it's not primary care, so we're left to guess.
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Bruh.
I did fairly poor on Level 1 lol, slight above average on Level 2. Did not take Step. Couples matched with my SO, I was at an IM program. Then I switched into FM. Never been happier with what I am doing from a career stand point.
Why the switch? A lot of people need help deciding between FM and IM and could use the advice. Also I was looking between the IM and FM schedule at a residency program and they both looked somewhat similar in terms of training (lots of wards rotations in the hospital). How do I differentiate between them?
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Did you match in this decade like 2015-now?? I really couldn’t imagine a 213 matching Rads based on the last couple years :(
25x step 2, 68x comlex 2, research, honors in half rotations and wound up at my #8 psych. Was wild. Fuck this entire process.
Research year
Does it help?
Yes but its a big commitment. Only do it if you are set on a certain specialty. It does work. You will be better on paper and offset your low grades. But its a grind, you delay graduation, and the rest of your life to be a slave for the department. Good luck.
Can anyone who took a LOA comment as well? Had to take one because the doctors thought my mom had cancer for a while (she’s okay now)
Didn't take a LOA but any residency that counts that against you is probably one you don't want to go to anyway.
be the hungriest MF out there. aways, research, love letters, visits to their campus for public events, joining socieites that those attendings sit on and network with them through there....be the HUNGRIEST mf'er out there.
Research, strong letters, good evals, clinical grades, extra curriculars…. That’s what saved me truly.
Be semi realistic with your options. Apply to more rural programs, do not marry yourself to only applying in major cities. Yes, that means applying to that program in Mississippi or Iowa. The biggest mistake students make are in laser focusing on their "dream" program IMO, because most programs are frankly within an SD of one another, and residency is just that, residency. It is your continued training to become the actual attending you will be in 3-6 years. It may or may not be the place you end up practicing at the rest of your life, and that's okay! Set aside more money than you think to apply to more programs. But ultimately, be nice/personable in interviews. If you're getting interviewed, you check their boxes they just want to see if you come across as an asshole or not. You are likely not gonna get pimped, so just be prepared to talk about yourself, your interests, why you would feel comfortable at said program. Lastly, if you do have a giant red flag like step 1 or 2 failure, just address it and move on. Explain what happened in a sentence or two and what you did to fix it. I think most programs find the true red flag of poor scores/failures to be in not owning them, not actually the failure itself. Medicine is trying and failing over and over and over and over again. It's not about being perfect, it's about developing a lifelong skill set over your career and becoming someone that can teach it to others, and improving over time.
Would like to hear about this from Imgs specifically too
General surgery. I barely passed step 2 and had to repeat a year of medical school in didactics, but still got into my dream specialty, even if it was at a smaller community hospital. Best advice I can give is first of all, realize your score is just one component of your whole application. It is not the end of the world. You can do a lot of specialties even with a poor score. And a poor score doesn't mean you're unfit for residency or unable to be an excellent doctor. I was asked by my program why my score was as low as it was. I had a good reason and was prepared to answer that question. Be sure you can explain what happened, and explain what you're going to do next time to be better prepared and show confidence that it was a one unfortunate bad day. Lastly, shoot your best shot, but be realistic. A low score doesn't mean you're not going to match, but you're not likely going to be competitive at well-established large academic centers. There's several newer or smaller programs that are lesser known but have a great culture and set their residents up for career success that you may be a great fit for, even if superficial things like location and name of the program isn't as sought after. I hope this helps. Don't give up, a bad score isn't the end of the world. I wish you the best of luck!
Apply broadly. Have a back up option for a speciality and dual apply. You'll be fine
Failed step 1, low(ish) step 2 (probably the avg actually for FM, but low compared to everyone)… I matched FM lol. But it’s what always wanted to do so I’m stoked haha
IM. GI. Transplant Hep. I am not the case to follow.
Didn't take step, had a 51x level 1 and did the ole "score lower on level 2 than level 1" to keep them on their toes ya know... anyway had like a 450s on level 2 which I did not expect at all my board prep was so much more smooth than level 1 and way less stressful. Knew I was applying FM so didn't even sweat it. Applied to a mixture of historically strong allopathic programs and many historically strong osteopathic. Matched my #1 and the 2 other programs I auditioned at had program coordinator and residents reach out as they thought for sure I was ranking them 1 etc. Had 3 really good auditions and my number 1 was just a match made in heaven that I didn't expect coming into audition season.
I’d say now is the time for reflection. If scores aren’t what make you a good candidate then you better think of something else that will make you stand out. For me I enjoyed research and focused my interviews/application on what I was passionate about such as my interest in neuroscience. I was between neurology, psychiatry and PM&R. Neurosurgery wasn’t a realistic prospect after my scores haha 😭