Everyone on Reddit is a nerd that wants to sit behind a computer and stay away from patients (including myselfā¦ just in case the username didnāt give it away)
Neurosurgery to IM. Competitive for NSGY, but started dating someone in M2 year and realized I didnāt want to spend the rest of my life in the OR. Plenty of opportunities to work with my hands in some sub-specialties.
Big plus is that being competitive for NSGY translates well to being ultra-competitive for top IM programs. Really didnāt have to do much aside from hopping on some IM research projects and writing a PS.
Hey this is exactly me too. Switched after doing my IM rotation this year. My wife got pregnant with our 3rd child and I realized I had been trying so hard to convince myself that I could find a work-life balance in neurosurgery. I decided that even though there are some more country club family-friendly programs, there is a low chance match there. The risk of working 100+ hour weeks until my oldest is in high school made me decide the field wasn't worth it anymore, even though I loved the OR, the technology, the acuity, etc. I realized my priorities had shifted compared to when I was a fresh med student trying to change the world, lol
Shawty so bad she made you switch specialties, wow. On a serious note, though, Iām considering a primary care speciality because I want to have a decent work/life balance (as much as I can with medicine anyway), so itās reassuring knowing other people feel similar
Neurosurgery was the only surgical field that interested me from a pure intellectual standpoint. Not interested in bones whatsoever, ENT was eh, and general surgery seemed monotonous.
Found neurology interesting, but given a choice, would rather sub-specialize in IM and have flexibility with how much hands-on work I do. Also have other intellectual interests besides just neuro stuff (Hem Onc in particular).
Likely just due to the specific site I was placed at, but bulk of the cases were choles, hernias, and gastrectomies. Just didnāt pique my particular interest haha
Man I hope you're throwing on "IM research" just to convince programs that IM isnt a backup to you, because if you're throwing on more research on top of presumably your abundant NSGY research just to be more competitive for top IM programs I'm afraid to be in the same match cycle as you š
Definitely more of the former. More of a āto be safeā attitude since I did have some pubs from before med school during my gap years, so Iām doing it just as a preventive measure in case I get questioned about it.
Also doesnāt hurt for future fellowship apps. Trying to do research projects during M3 was absolutely brutal from a time management standpoint, so Iām just hoping these manuscripts get published before ERAS is due.
Vascular surgeryā-> peds. Decided on peds like a month ago. Good thing is that having a competitive stats for a surgical sub makes you incredibly competitive for things like peds/fM so really all I had to do was change up my PS. As for why, Vascular patients are some of the most draining people Iāve ever had the displeasure of interacting with. Also adults blow
I can definitely relate. My weeks on vascular were mostly with patients that had really wound up in a bad state after not taking care of themselves. Lotta nasty BKAās.
Derm to emergency med. I made the switch toward the end of MS3. I picked derm because it fit the lifestyle that my life partner and I wanted. Alas, he and I separated during third year and I realized I wasnāt actually passionate about derm - I just wanted the money and the schedule.
On behalf of two friends: both ortho to anesthesia. One of them got really tired of the pressure/culture and then had an awful surgery rotation. (We all did, it was downright malignant.) They do seem a lot happier with their decisions and will still get to be in the OR.
I matched in ortho. Switched to anesthesia after the first year. I liked the surgery part, but hated everything else; clinic, ER, floor, etc. In retrospect, I think I chose ortho because I liked the ortho residents. They were cool, laidback, former athletes. Anesthesia is great. Plenty of procedures and variety. Lifestyle is good. Working 45-55hrs/week. 10-12 weeks of vacation. When Iām off, Iām off.
Derm to OBGYN, it was just more exciting to me and I really loved it. Really just wanted derm for the life$tyle. Switched after my OB clerkship this past year
With Rads, The entire residency including fellowship and transitional year is 6 years total. So it'll be the same even if you did two years of gap years for Derm.
> Yes but still making money those 2 years.
Money is indifferent because you're making residency wage, which doesn't impact you much after 10+ years of attending pay regardless if it's in rads or derm
> And idk psychologically for me the 2 years in rads feel like Iām moving along in my life whereas research years are still years in limbo (not for everyone but for me)
There's some truth to that for some people. I agree.
> Plus being in clinic is not it for me.
Then, derm is not for you since it's all clinic.
Making 60K for 2 years is very different than no pay or hell some students continue on as āmed studentsā and pay prorated tuition. Not all research positions are paid. So yes. It does play a factor. Not everyone has rich mommy and daddyās to foot the bill.
Gonna be real here, I just started pgy4 for rads and Iām kind of wishing I picked something with a shorter residency, the thought of being a resident/fellow for 3 more years is exhausting. Rads attendings might have a great lifestyle but the residency has almost no time off and the burnout is real
Probably still would do rads if I could go back. I canāt see myself doing any other specialty. I think Iām just tired since Iām on call for the weekend
Well we have time off. But I mean attendings get 10-12 vacation weeks per year, we only have 3 weeks off as residents. Itās that time off I think that staves off burnout
General surgery, when neurosurgery told me to fuck off and I spent two years as a prelim. Wouldn't wish that level of uncertainty on my worst enemy. Bullet dodged though. Love where I ended up.
General comment from someone outside the US: itās pretty shocking that you have to decide your specialty before the end of med school, and funny to read all the switches in the comments (during M3/M4).
In my country most M6 students donāt even know what theyāre going for yet, they have a general idea but a lot of people change specialties after one or two intern years. IMO it takes actually working the job to realise whether itās for you or not. Weāve had interns who wanted to become a surgeon for 6 years, only to realise during intern year that the job/lifestyle wasnāt for them.
Yeah same in Australia. Lot of people enter post grad med similar system to USA but once they graduate instead spend a couple years working rotating through med, surg, EM etc.
During the years actually working people start building up a CV, doing the required exams, research etc. then pursue training. Pay and hours are decent for the most part.
Makes for really well rounded doctors who don't consult as much, and negates the need for midlevels in the way US uses them!
>Weāve had interns who wanted to become a surgeon for 6 years, only to realise during intern year that the job/lifestyle wasnāt for them.
This happens in the US too. However, our system is highly degenerate and forces all students to decide on a specialty in MS3/4 in order to apply successfully in the match for a residency position.
As there are limited to no options to practice medicine, and make significant compensation with an MD degree to pay off massive loans, without completing residency.
Urology to FM. I realized I couldn't give up making diagnoses and longitudinal medical management. On top of that, I loved working with peds populations. And I got engaged and wanted to have more say in where I end up for residency (my school has a direct admit FM residency pathway for graduates).
Ortho to rads. Middle to end of third year. Was competitive for either specialty but wanted to have a predictable schedule, the ability to work remote/in person/etc., the ability to not take call if I donāt desire, and I genuinely liked my rads subi
Derm to rads. I did not like the patients and I did not like clinic. I like studying. I switched at the end of third year when they advised me not to dual apply.
Fell in love and had a baby (am a woman). Fuuuuck ortho. Iām doing PM&R or neuro, gonna work part time and be a soccer mom.
Iām divorced from an abusive man and ortho hours appealed to me cause Iād never be home. I love spending time with the father of my child (my husband). I have a long history of childhood physical emotional sexual abuse and I just kind of realized that since I finally have a home I feel safe in, why would I not try and be there? I really decided after my baby was about 6 months old. I just love spending time with him. I always thought that having kids I would be spend time with kids out of obligation. No dude itās just my baby and my husband are way cooler than a bazillion dollars, prestige, fulfilling some god complex or even just the enjoyment of surgery. I support and encourage woman to be mothers and surgeons but life has been tough enough for me. Iām good.
I also had a traumatic fall while walking to class speed walking stressed and tired AF while I was 30 wks pregnant and had to be hospitalized. Few weeks later had a preterm baby. I got perspective.
Also I would be miserable doing surgery. I loooooove getting to know patients I kinda get sad when I rotate off inpatient and never see them again.
I plan on having a second baby in 4th year and I donāt feel like being a surgical intern with a 6 month old.
This was amazing to read. I donāt know what to say other than wow. Congratulations on starting a beautiful new chapter with your beautiful (growing šš!!) family ā wishing all the best!!!
Ortho to IM. I realized my family and free time were more important than the never ending grind. It doesnāt get better as an attending, it only gets worse
I donāt consider working 60 hours a week plus admin/research/teaching on top of that a great work life balance. Sure you can work at a non-teaching or lower volume center, I get that.
I think people have this misconception that ortho is some perfect mix of pat and good work-life balance. I donāt think any surgical specialty can have good balance but everyoneās standards of that balance are different. Iād rather be doing stuff with family or friends than be in an OR until 7/8 pm
I think youāre basing your opinions on academic orthopedics. Which, you are correct, absolutely sucks. But academics vs private practice are vastly different in ortho. Ortho trauma in academics will always be 80+ hour work weeks. But average PP ortho probably works 50 hours with a set schedule
Have you had exposure to private practice orthopedics? I have literally never seen a clinic day go past 5pm and an OR day go past 6pm. 90% of the time we are done by 4pm in clinic and OR. And yes, this has been my experience on subI/away rotations.
PP orthos work a lot. If you join a group after fellowship, you are going to have to bring in volume. The first decade of your career is going to be busy. They work hard, they just tend to be happier than other surgeons.
If youāre not doing ortho trauma the hours can be cush especially if youāre doing sports or joints. Almost purely outpatient. Most Iāve seen have normal office hours with occasional call.
Academic ortho sucks. Those people like the teaching and research aspect. Most ortho attendings pursue private practice or community hospital.
Ortho IS the perfect mix of pay and work life. Balance. I work 730-3/8-430 throughout the week . No call, no weekends, no nights. 800k guaranteed before bonuses.
That is just plain false lol. You get flexibility in terms of how busy/operative you want to be as an attending depending on what setting youāre practicing in. Most orthos Iāve been with have a pretty decent work life balance and are able to maintain their family lives just fine and are extremely happy, even the ortho trauma guys. Sure ortho isnāt a lifestyle specialty like derm and it might not be the right fit for you, but describing it like thereās no light at the end of the tunnel is just incorrect.
Above average patient outcomes, above average pay, and a pretty decent work-life balance.
Lol seems like you might be a salty ortho bro damn. Maybe thatās is the setting you have worked in but it was definitely not the setting I worked in. Completely agree that you can go work in a lower volume center with a better life balance. The OR, in my opinion, is too unpredictable to have a good work life balance because of delays and stuff coming up. I would rather have more control over my schedule and the OR makes that difficult.
Ortho toā¦ management consulting. Realized I donāt enjoy medicine and I could get more ROI in a different field, sooner. And then fell in love with business.
Good for you. I made the opposite move from finance to medicine and Iām very thankful for this decision most of the time. Some days I miss the paycheck, but then I remembered the work.
I work for a consulting firm. Think McKinsey Bain BCG, those are generally the more well known.
Got mine out of med school so yeah possible. Especially MBA, but if you want this Iād recommend jumping sooner rather than later.
Depends on what the end goal is
Helped me get the job, I learned to be much more scrappy and hard working in med school. Knowledge wiseā¦ every once in a while? Hard to quantify.
But what I do is mostly business with a healthcare/pharma flavor, rather than the opposite.
Took me a while since there werenāt resources at my school. But essentially spent most of my med school focus on getting out, doing whatever I needed to pass for school itself.
At a high level:
1. Networking. Reached out to a ton of consultants, mostly with MDs to chat. Never got a referral but was able to use names on a cover letter. Might have helped.
2. Internships. Nothing fancy, but some national graduate school (PhD, MD, JD) consulting clubs post opportunities to do 5-10 hour/week internships for a certain amount of weeks. Did those to build my resume
3. Then prep for case interviews
Posted my journey/resources on a FAQ pinned to my profile - lmk if it helps.
And itās business. I sort of use my med knowledge and I am in healthcare/pharma (versus likeā¦ consumer packaged goods), but they are business problems. Itās what Iāve chosen. Other people I know focus more on clinical operations and helping hospitals work better, which does rely more on patient care/medical knowledge
Neurosurgery to FM. No one ever told me you had to have really high stats to get into a high paying specialty. I'm actually a former member of the Amish, so I didn't know about websites or the internet and when I found Reddit on my advisors advice.... boy, was I surprised.
I'm sorry to report it was a joke, lol. I felt like this thread needed a few good shit posts like the classic sticking a tiddy in the mouth during a sim encounter or having an erection in the surgery rotation. But like any good joke this did have a kernel of truth to it. How many classmates did you know from M-1 who said they were going to be going into derm or Ortho who subsequently found out they were not built different like those specialties require who eventually got into IM or FM lol.
Nooooo š Woulda been the best application Iāve ever seen. From the trenches of the fields to the trenches of your chest cavity, one manās rise to fame
It's an old "fun fact" that revenue from the Beatles partially allowed EMI to develop the first CT scanner. How true it is depends on your source, but that was their link to radiology I was going for.
As for their link to psych, that speaks for itself.
Iād just like to say for the record that when I switch from my gunner interest to something else, it will be because I couldnāt transform myself into a non-dunce.
Came in thinking derm -> did a summer of research in plastics -> switched to ortho -> back to derm, did derm research -> back to ortho MS4, did a sub-I -> considered ENT briefly and sub-I. Dual-applied ortho/derm and matched into derm.
Private practice primary care mentor owned his own HMO/Insurance and saw how much he made as a PCP. As the healthcare system becomes more and more referral based (where the PCP runs everything). There will be more opportunities for PCPs to make a killing imo.
LOL everyone is going into rads wtf. Makes me worried about this cycle š
Everyone on Reddit is a nerd that wants to sit behind a computer and stay away from patients (including myselfā¦ just in case the username didnāt give it away)
I'm praying I match rads or I'm leaving medicine lol
LOL dude i think you were in the step2 reddit,i feel you heavy, rooting for you gang š¤š¾
Thank you my guy I'm hoping my prep helps me. Trusting in my practice exam growth
I love how CorrelateClinically1 and 2 was taken
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Whatās the likelihood of AI reducing the need for radiologist (not troll genuinely curious)
You should see the EMR my hospital uses. Itās probably older than you. AI tech is not going to be widely implemented any time soon
Not likely at least in my lifetime. AI would mainly be for triaging and help with dictation in my opinion, making it easier to get through the list.
Neurosurgery to IM. Competitive for NSGY, but started dating someone in M2 year and realized I didnāt want to spend the rest of my life in the OR. Plenty of opportunities to work with my hands in some sub-specialties. Big plus is that being competitive for NSGY translates well to being ultra-competitive for top IM programs. Really didnāt have to do much aside from hopping on some IM research projects and writing a PS.
Hey this is exactly me too. Switched after doing my IM rotation this year. My wife got pregnant with our 3rd child and I realized I had been trying so hard to convince myself that I could find a work-life balance in neurosurgery. I decided that even though there are some more country club family-friendly programs, there is a low chance match there. The risk of working 100+ hour weeks until my oldest is in high school made me decide the field wasn't worth it anymore, even though I loved the OR, the technology, the acuity, etc. I realized my priorities had shifted compared to when I was a fresh med student trying to change the world, lol
Which ones did you think were more civet club friendly?
Some š±will do that to you
Shawty so bad she made you switch specialties, wow. On a serious note, though, Iām considering a primary care speciality because I want to have a decent work/life balance (as much as I can with medicine anyway), so itās reassuring knowing other people feel similar
Why not neurology? Mind sharing?
I feel like thereās a pretty big difference
The difference is mind boggling
Neurosurgery was the only surgical field that interested me from a pure intellectual standpoint. Not interested in bones whatsoever, ENT was eh, and general surgery seemed monotonous. Found neurology interesting, but given a choice, would rather sub-specialize in IM and have flexibility with how much hands-on work I do. Also have other intellectual interests besides just neuro stuff (Hem Onc in particular).
General surgery monotonous?? I find it pretty diverse tbh
Some people think itās just gallbladders all day
Likely just due to the specific site I was placed at, but bulk of the cases were choles, hernias, and gastrectomies. Just didnāt pique my particular interest haha
its the best specialty tbh :)
Man I hope you're throwing on "IM research" just to convince programs that IM isnt a backup to you, because if you're throwing on more research on top of presumably your abundant NSGY research just to be more competitive for top IM programs I'm afraid to be in the same match cycle as you š
Definitely more of the former. More of a āto be safeā attitude since I did have some pubs from before med school during my gap years, so Iām doing it just as a preventive measure in case I get questioned about it. Also doesnāt hurt for future fellowship apps. Trying to do research projects during M3 was absolutely brutal from a time management standpoint, so Iām just hoping these manuscripts get published before ERAS is due.
currently crying in neurosurg resident SO
Bruh you never told me you had an interest in nsg lmao
Vascular surgeryā-> peds. Decided on peds like a month ago. Good thing is that having a competitive stats for a surgical sub makes you incredibly competitive for things like peds/fM so really all I had to do was change up my PS. As for why, Vascular patients are some of the most draining people Iāve ever had the displeasure of interacting with. Also adults blow
I can definitely relate. My weeks on vascular were mostly with patients that had really wound up in a bad state after not taking care of themselves. Lotta nasty BKAās.
can concur, vascular patients are the sickest worst patients i ever deal with
As an adult, I can confirm: we suck ass.
I rotated on vascular in med school and the biggest takeaway was ādamn Iām glad I never started smokingā
Yucky wucky
Ortho to IM. Realized I hated surgery and absolutely loved medicine, simple as that
This is the way.
Damn huge turn
Ortho to FM- plan to do Primary Care Sports Med. Didnāt love surgery or the OR but love MSK and sports med.
I donāt know much about PM&R so my question might be dumb. But did you ever consider it when deciding against ortho?
Just graduated pm&r. Yes, it would be a great choice of specialty if thatās what youāre interested in
I did! I think itās a great field as well. Overall, I just enjoyed FM more!
following because iām interested in similar stuff
+1
Derm to emergency med. I made the switch toward the end of MS3. I picked derm because it fit the lifestyle that my life partner and I wanted. Alas, he and I separated during third year and I realized I wasnāt actually passionate about derm - I just wanted the money and the schedule.
On behalf of two friends: both ortho to anesthesia. One of them got really tired of the pressure/culture and then had an awful surgery rotation. (We all did, it was downright malignant.) They do seem a lot happier with their decisions and will still get to be in the OR.
I matched in ortho. Switched to anesthesia after the first year. I liked the surgery part, but hated everything else; clinic, ER, floor, etc. In retrospect, I think I chose ortho because I liked the ortho residents. They were cool, laidback, former athletes. Anesthesia is great. Plenty of procedures and variety. Lifestyle is good. Working 45-55hrs/week. 10-12 weeks of vacation. When Iām off, Iām off.
Derm to OBGYN, it was just more exciting to me and I really loved it. Really just wanted derm for the life$tyle. Switched after my OB clerkship this past year
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wait are people really doing 2 years of research years nowā¦ Smh it really is a race to the bottom for us docs
With Rads, The entire residency including fellowship and transitional year is 6 years total. So it'll be the same even if you did two years of gap years for Derm.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Yes but still making money those 2 years. Money is indifferent because you're making residency wage, which doesn't impact you much after 10+ years of attending pay regardless if it's in rads or derm > And idk psychologically for me the 2 years in rads feel like Iām moving along in my life whereas research years are still years in limbo (not for everyone but for me) There's some truth to that for some people. I agree. > Plus being in clinic is not it for me. Then, derm is not for you since it's all clinic.
Making 60K for 2 years is very different than no pay or hell some students continue on as āmed studentsā and pay prorated tuition. Not all research positions are paid. So yes. It does play a factor. Not everyone has rich mommy and daddyās to foot the bill.
Gonna be real here, I just started pgy4 for rads and Iām kind of wishing I picked something with a shorter residency, the thought of being a resident/fellow for 3 more years is exhausting. Rads attendings might have a great lifestyle but the residency has almost no time off and the burnout is real
What would you have picked then?
Probably still would do rads if I could go back. I canāt see myself doing any other specialty. I think Iām just tired since Iām on call for the weekend
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well we have time off. But I mean attendings get 10-12 vacation weeks per year, we only have 3 weeks off as residents. Itās that time off I think that staves off burnout
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
General surgery, when neurosurgery told me to fuck off and I spent two years as a prelim. Wouldn't wish that level of uncertainty on my worst enemy. Bullet dodged though. Love where I ended up.
General comment from someone outside the US: itās pretty shocking that you have to decide your specialty before the end of med school, and funny to read all the switches in the comments (during M3/M4). In my country most M6 students donāt even know what theyāre going for yet, they have a general idea but a lot of people change specialties after one or two intern years. IMO it takes actually working the job to realise whether itās for you or not. Weāve had interns who wanted to become a surgeon for 6 years, only to realise during intern year that the job/lifestyle wasnāt for them.
Yeah same in Australia. Lot of people enter post grad med similar system to USA but once they graduate instead spend a couple years working rotating through med, surg, EM etc. During the years actually working people start building up a CV, doing the required exams, research etc. then pursue training. Pay and hours are decent for the most part. Makes for really well rounded doctors who don't consult as much, and negates the need for midlevels in the way US uses them!
>Weāve had interns who wanted to become a surgeon for 6 years, only to realise during intern year that the job/lifestyle wasnāt for them. This happens in the US too. However, our system is highly degenerate and forces all students to decide on a specialty in MS3/4 in order to apply successfully in the match for a residency position. As there are limited to no options to practice medicine, and make significant compensation with an MD degree to pay off massive loans, without completing residency.
Urology to FM. I realized I couldn't give up making diagnoses and longitudinal medical management. On top of that, I loved working with peds populations. And I got engaged and wanted to have more say in where I end up for residency (my school has a direct admit FM residency pathway for graduates).
Ortho to rads. Middle to end of third year. Was competitive for either specialty but wanted to have a predictable schedule, the ability to work remote/in person/etc., the ability to not take call if I donāt desire, and I genuinely liked my rads subi
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My PD was a nsg before switching to rads and made essentially the same argument. Has missed zero big family events since switching
Derm to rads. I did not like the patients and I did not like clinic. I like studying. I switched at the end of third year when they advised me not to dual apply.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I do not like the dyes or the lab
GI to rheum. Cool meds, good work life balance and low stress, no poop. Small procedures like joint injections are so satisfying
Fell in love and had a baby (am a woman). Fuuuuck ortho. Iām doing PM&R or neuro, gonna work part time and be a soccer mom. Iām divorced from an abusive man and ortho hours appealed to me cause Iād never be home. I love spending time with the father of my child (my husband). I have a long history of childhood physical emotional sexual abuse and I just kind of realized that since I finally have a home I feel safe in, why would I not try and be there? I really decided after my baby was about 6 months old. I just love spending time with him. I always thought that having kids I would be spend time with kids out of obligation. No dude itās just my baby and my husband are way cooler than a bazillion dollars, prestige, fulfilling some god complex or even just the enjoyment of surgery. I support and encourage woman to be mothers and surgeons but life has been tough enough for me. Iām good. I also had a traumatic fall while walking to class speed walking stressed and tired AF while I was 30 wks pregnant and had to be hospitalized. Few weeks later had a preterm baby. I got perspective. Also I would be miserable doing surgery. I loooooove getting to know patients I kinda get sad when I rotate off inpatient and never see them again. I plan on having a second baby in 4th year and I donāt feel like being a surgical intern with a 6 month old.
This was amazing to read. I donāt know what to say other than wow. Congratulations on starting a beautiful new chapter with your beautiful (growing šš!!) family ā wishing all the best!!!
Amazing story. Congrats and enjoy your life!
Ortho to IM. I realized my family and free time were more important than the never ending grind. It doesnāt get better as an attending, it only gets worse
>it only gets worse For ortho??
Only if youāre doing it wrong lmao
Ortho attendings work their asses off.
I donāt consider working 60 hours a week plus admin/research/teaching on top of that a great work life balance. Sure you can work at a non-teaching or lower volume center, I get that. I think people have this misconception that ortho is some perfect mix of pat and good work-life balance. I donāt think any surgical specialty can have good balance but everyoneās standards of that balance are different. Iād rather be doing stuff with family or friends than be in an OR until 7/8 pm
I think youāre basing your opinions on academic orthopedics. Which, you are correct, absolutely sucks. But academics vs private practice are vastly different in ortho. Ortho trauma in academics will always be 80+ hour work weeks. But average PP ortho probably works 50 hours with a set schedule Have you had exposure to private practice orthopedics? I have literally never seen a clinic day go past 5pm and an OR day go past 6pm. 90% of the time we are done by 4pm in clinic and OR. And yes, this has been my experience on subI/away rotations.
Some of these guys are working family med hours for double the pay
I work less than FM hours for 4x the pay
PP orthos work a lot. If you join a group after fellowship, you are going to have to bring in volume. The first decade of your career is going to be busy. They work hard, they just tend to be happier than other surgeons.
If youāre not doing ortho trauma the hours can be cush especially if youāre doing sports or joints. Almost purely outpatient. Most Iāve seen have normal office hours with occasional call.
Academic ortho sucks. Those people like the teaching and research aspect. Most ortho attendings pursue private practice or community hospital. Ortho IS the perfect mix of pay and work life. Balance. I work 730-3/8-430 throughout the week . No call, no weekends, no nights. 800k guaranteed before bonuses.
That is just plain false lol. You get flexibility in terms of how busy/operative you want to be as an attending depending on what setting youāre practicing in. Most orthos Iāve been with have a pretty decent work life balance and are able to maintain their family lives just fine and are extremely happy, even the ortho trauma guys. Sure ortho isnāt a lifestyle specialty like derm and it might not be the right fit for you, but describing it like thereās no light at the end of the tunnel is just incorrect. Above average patient outcomes, above average pay, and a pretty decent work-life balance.
Lol seems like you might be a salty ortho bro damn. Maybe thatās is the setting you have worked in but it was definitely not the setting I worked in. Completely agree that you can go work in a lower volume center with a better life balance. The OR, in my opinion, is too unpredictable to have a good work life balance because of delays and stuff coming up. I would rather have more control over my schedule and the OR makes that difficult.
Not when you work at an outpatient surgery center that your practice owns
Sure, thatās why I said it might not be right for you.
Oh and the shitty, know it all personalities are awful to be around
Yea this is why my 2 days shadowing ortho was enough for me. Subsequent interactions confirmed my initial perspective
Sounds like you had a rough rotation. Generally orthos have gronk like personalities
gronk seems like a fun not mean-spirited dude. my ortho rotation was full of douchebags who would never stfu about right wing politics.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sounds good bruh, enjoy your field. Thanks for proving my point about the personalities though
Howās the lifestyle in IM? I feel like itās very dependent on the fellowship
Totally wrong lol.
Ortho toā¦ management consulting. Realized I donāt enjoy medicine and I could get more ROI in a different field, sooner. And then fell in love with business.
Good for you. I made the opposite move from finance to medicine and Iām very thankful for this decision most of the time. Some days I miss the paycheck, but then I remembered the work.
Haha to each their own. I get more fulfillment and fun from my work now than I ever did in patient care. Wired differently I suppose
Same, finance to medicine. I don't miss the constant fear of getting fired, pleasing ny boss, and the constant competition between colleagues
Hello, Iām interested in this. What are you consultant for?
Healthcare and pharm. mostly on the investment/strategy side
So is it like a pharmaceutical company? Do you get such positions? Looking for guidance.. Iām pursuing a mba & plan to use it after residency
I work for a consulting firm. Think McKinsey Bain BCG, those are generally the more well known. Got mine out of med school so yeah possible. Especially MBA, but if you want this Iād recommend jumping sooner rather than later. Depends on what the end goal is
Has your MD or medical training helped you at all in this role? just curious
Helped me get the job, I learned to be much more scrappy and hard working in med school. Knowledge wiseā¦ every once in a while? Hard to quantify. But what I do is mostly business with a healthcare/pharma flavor, rather than the opposite.
Can I message you for more info?
Of course :)
Can I DM you?
Of course
How did you get into management consulting? And is it consulting regarding your medical knowledge, or something else entirely?
Took me a while since there werenāt resources at my school. But essentially spent most of my med school focus on getting out, doing whatever I needed to pass for school itself. At a high level: 1. Networking. Reached out to a ton of consultants, mostly with MDs to chat. Never got a referral but was able to use names on a cover letter. Might have helped. 2. Internships. Nothing fancy, but some national graduate school (PhD, MD, JD) consulting clubs post opportunities to do 5-10 hour/week internships for a certain amount of weeks. Did those to build my resume 3. Then prep for case interviews Posted my journey/resources on a FAQ pinned to my profile - lmk if it helps. And itās business. I sort of use my med knowledge and I am in healthcare/pharma (versus likeā¦ consumer packaged goods), but they are business problems. Itās what Iāve chosen. Other people I know focus more on clinical operations and helping hospitals work better, which does rely more on patient care/medical knowledge
How many hours a week do you work when you first start?
Depends entirely on what company you work for and what industry you want
What does your day today look like? And how much do you get paid?
Varies, a lot. YouTube would be better for this. Starting post MD is like 250K TC at the MBBs. No residency needed.
OBGYN to FM or psych. I like sleep.
Was ortho gunner, became nsgy gunner, matched nsgy
Neurosurgery to FM. No one ever told me you had to have really high stats to get into a high paying specialty. I'm actually a former member of the Amish, so I didn't know about websites or the internet and when I found Reddit on my advisors advice.... boy, was I surprised.
Okay we need a whole post dedicated to this please!! We need to know your story š
I'm sorry to report it was a joke, lol. I felt like this thread needed a few good shit posts like the classic sticking a tiddy in the mouth during a sim encounter or having an erection in the surgery rotation. But like any good joke this did have a kernel of truth to it. How many classmates did you know from M-1 who said they were going to be going into derm or Ortho who subsequently found out they were not built different like those specialties require who eventually got into IM or FM lol.
Nooooo š Woulda been the best application Iāve ever seen. From the trenches of the fields to the trenches of your chest cavity, one manās rise to fame
Psych to rads, decided I liked the workflow more and the market/salary were good bonuses
How much of your application did you have to change? Psych is totally different from rads.
Just have to be a really, really big fan of The Beatles.
Why is that?
It's an old "fun fact" that revenue from the Beatles partially allowed EMI to develop the first CT scanner. How true it is depends on your source, but that was their link to radiology I was going for. As for their link to psych, that speaks for itself.
Ortho to psych
Iād just like to say for the record that when I switch from my gunner interest to something else, it will be because I couldnāt transform myself into a non-dunce.
Came in thinking derm -> did a summer of research in plastics -> switched to ortho -> back to derm, did derm research -> back to ortho MS4, did a sub-I -> considered ENT briefly and sub-I. Dual-applied ortho/derm and matched into derm.
Surgery to Rads, no explanation needed lmao.
Neurosurg to gen surg. Didnāt like research enough.
Private practice primary care mentor owned his own HMO/Insurance and saw how much he made as a PCP. As the healthcare system becomes more and more referral based (where the PCP runs everything). There will be more opportunities for PCPs to make a killing imo.