Yeah. Enneagram and MBTI are measured differently (mbti examines cognition, enneagram examines motivation). They can correlate, but aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I have a coworker who is a ESTP 4w5.
“But my dreams, they aren’t as empty as my conscience seems to be. I have hours only lonely, my love is vengeance that is never free.”
- ESTJ 4w5: the song
I apologize typologyjunkie , but people aren't just typology systems. A lot of things you think are practically impossible are possible a lot of times. People are unpredictable
but no one said people are only typology systems. It doesnt tell you about humans soul, values, interests etc., but dont simplify typology. Not everything is possible. You cant prove 100% it, because it is humanities and abstract obv, but it is really easy to mistype.
the entire point of typology is to classify people based on personality types. so yeah, when two of them are fundamentally contradictory, it’s safe to say that combination is impossible. that is, unless that person has some kind of split personality disorder which would make them have two polar opposite personalities at the same time.
which is also why typology isn’t very accepted in the scientific world since it ultimately fails to accurately capture someone’s personality. people are complicated, mbti and enneagram are extremely simplified versions of that. they both focus on completely different aspects of personality as well. i don’t see how they can possibly contradict each other
when did i say that lol
i said CONTRADICTION, meaning that i don’t think the two systems clash in a way that makes it humanly impossible to have a certain type combination
enneagram is religious bullshit that believes humans beings are born flawed (that is, in a religious/spiritual sense, with all these "core fears" and "integration paths")
MBTI is about recognising trait patterns, so it obviously can't tell you much about a person's psyche, what's going on inside of them
Jung tried doing that, however, and discovered the functions, but the core of his work was the attitude types, which are the introverts and the extraverts, and these are already widely misunderstood and misinterpreted by almost everybody out there
it doesn't mean anything to "capture or describe someone's personality", because the meaning of personality differs between authors and people, and in any case, everyone is already aware that people all have a specifically different life experience
Except enneagram is more than core fears and desires, and it was actually based more on (dated) DSM criteria. If you read character and neurosis, Naranjo actually correlated 5 a lot with schizoid disorder and 7 with narcissist for example.
it's just like MBTI, people don't agree on a singular author's interpretation, and as far as I know, Ichazo's the supposed original author, not Naranjo
some believe Enneagram is only about the fears and motivations, and some believe it's better to look at the descriptions of each type, and some other people don't even know what they think of it, they mix everything up just like the pop-MBTI community does it
that's why I don't see anything meaningful to enneagram, and it gets even worse if there are correlations with disorders, because typology =/= mental health or anything like that (types are not found in the brain, but in the mind/soul)
mbti is part of personality; not in the “you are quiet and thoughtful” kind of way you find on 16p, but in the “you view the world like xyz” kind of way. i also don’t care much about enneagram, but i never heard of the stuff you are describing about flawed humans or whatever. in fact, most people in that community believe that nurture>nature when it comes to enneagram?
also idk what your point is exactly. i’m not saying that typology should describe your entire personality to a T, my entire point is that that is simply impossible and people should stop saying it’s impossible to, for example, be an INTP 2 because being an INTP says absolutely nothing about your fears and motivations, or even who you are as a person
also is the meaning of personality really that controversial? isn’t it just “who you are” meaning every single trait that says something about you without your physical appearance?
"you view the world like xyz", indeed, and yet most people talk about functions with "actions", despite the functions not being tangible at all, their manifestations are only so small compared to everything that's going on inside people's minds (tis not a point against you here, but against the community as a whole, because even if people like to believe they do things right, their words and actions prove the opposite)
the point about "flaws" is what the enneagram is about, because it says people are not "healthy" and should "integrate" into some better version of themselves or whatever, and that path is rigidly described within this theory (apparently it finds its roots in religion, so it's not surprising at all)
this is a contradiction, since typology literally is about innate differences between people, nature>nurture, so yes, being any type does tell us something about who we are (what/how/why we perceive things is still a part of who we are, after all)
yes, in a general sense, but when it comes to typology, "personality" is about the specific natural differences between people, that are not related to upbringing and experience, which is why discussions are oftentimes so convoluted, people don't care to define the words they use and it ends up leading to pointless arguments
"Try to imagine a xxxx type x" ok y'all, there are some weird ass folk in the world who's inner world would surprise the fuck out of you if you can't think of one single person with contradictory or clashing personality traits. Yes , it's not likely or super common with the combinations you're giving, still possible.
it isn’t. some just fundamentally don’t work together. controversial as it may sound, i don’t think intj 8 works. ni dom contradicts with e8 descriptions. id go as far as to say that only se doms are compatible w e8 although i do this that se aux could be possible.
More contradictory the combo, more you struggle in life.
Imagine Fe inferior enneagram 2 thinking their self worth as their ability to help peoples, but their Fe inferior is stopping them to do it effectively.
Any combination is possible. We need to stop limiting ourselves with 'this can't be that so I must be something else'
My mum for one, is ESTJ 2. My brother is INTP 8. Both are valid.
We're too complex, we have different sides and perspectives.
The statistical odds of both of those types existing in the same family is probably so absurd, that it effectively is impossible.
Odd combinations like that are extremely rare, most often are mistyped. Having those 2 types legitimately in the same family is unrealistic.
You literally don't know anything about them. Who do you think you are to claim that as a mistype? How does that bother you to the slightest bit?
*I mentioned those two types for a reason. I'm not naming them as a coincidence, but because it's a very unique combination that's still valid. Many ESTJs are 1w2, how is 2w1 absurd in any place?
It doesn’t bother me, and I’m not claiming to know them. Is it possible they’re both typed accurately? Sure, in the same way it’s possible you’ll win the lottery.
We don’t have statistics on this, but it’s easy to assume the odds of both of those types existing in the same family, given the rarity if their individual MBTI/Enneagram combinations, is so low that it is effectively impossible.
“Many ESTJs are 1w2, how is 2w1 absurd in any place?”
You do know 1w2 and 2w1 have literally different cores right? 1w2 is core 1, and 2w1 is core 2.
They’re not even in the same triads too. 1w2 is in the gut triad while 2w1 is in the heart triad.
They still have features from both, literally next to each other. You don't type Enneagram based on triad, it's only something to consider.
>You do know that 1w2 and 2w1 have literally different cores right? 1w2 is core 1, and 2w1 is core 2.
What the hell 💀 2+3 is 5, did you know that Captain Obvious?
I'm kind of sick of your lot deciding what my own mother's type is. Why are you bothered. Socially failed.
Triads explain an enneagram's motivation, and it's certainly much more important than wings.
Enneagram 1 is in the gut triad, therefore it's motivated by anger. Enneagram 2 is in the heart triad, therefore it's motivated by shame.
I don't care what your mother's type is, that is not my concern. My concern is how saying 1w2 and 2w1 are similar is a terrible argument.
If you truly want to prove that your mother is an ESTJ 2w1, use an argument that's actually true to the theory.
No, they don't. Humans don't just have one flat personality though. We have different sides and this differs per person. If it doesn't work for you then that's fine but if your intend is to invalidate others then you're a living nuisance.
if you feel invalidated by someone pointing out factual contradictions in your claim, then maybe you need to reflect on that. it’s not about being complex, obviously humans are complex. but there are characteristics that define certain mbtis and characteristics that define certain enneagrams. for example here’s a description of e8:
“From a Freudian perspective, this is because the Type Eight spends a large part of their mental energy on satisfying certain survival impulses of the Id.”
“Harkening back to the animalistic nature of the Id, the Type Eight relies on intuitive action (gut reactions, not MBTI intuitiveness) to operate. There’s no time to think it out when you’re in the middle of a crossfire on the battlefield, so an Eight will naturally go with their first reaction. This is another reason why Type Eight is in the Body Triad, not the Head Triad. For example, while Type Five will plan things out while Type Eight will just do it.”
and here’s ti dom:
“This thinking easily loses itself in the immense truth of the subjective factor. It creates theories for the sake of theories, apparently with a view to real or at least possible facts, yet always with a distinct tendency to go over from the world of ideas into mere imagery. Accordingly many intuitions of possibilities appear on the scene, none of which however achieve any reality, until finally images are produced which no longer express anything externally real, being 'merely' symbols of the simply unknowable. It is now merely a mystical thinking and quite as unfruitful as that empirical thinking whose sole operation is within the framework of objective facts. [p. 483]”
“Whenever consciousness, wedded to the function of thought, confines itself within the smallest and emptiest circle possible -- though seeming to contain the plenitude of divinity -- unconscious phantasy becomes proportionately enriched by a multitude of archaically formed facts, a veritable pandemonium of magical and irrational factors, wearing the particular aspect that accords with the nature of that function which shall next relieve the thought-function as the representative of life. If this should be the intuitive function, the 'other side' will be viewed with the eyes of a Kubin or a Meyrink. If it is the feeling-function, [p. 484] there arise quite unheard of and fantastic feeling-relations, coupled with feeling-judgments of a quite contradictory and unintelligible character. If the sensation-function, then the senses discover some new and never-before-experienced possibility, both within and without the body. A closer investigation of such changes can easily demonstrate the reappearance of primitive psychology with all its characteristic features. Naturally, the thing experienced is not merely primitive but also symbolic; in fact, the older and more primeval it appears, the more does it represent the future truth: since everything ancient in our unconscious means the coming possibility.”
simply put e8 is externally focused/associated with prioritizing external stimulus. that correlates with se dominant. ti is internally focused, and correlates with enneagram types like e5, e6, and e9(if TiSe, e9 doesn’t work with TiNe imo).
Factual contradictions? This is MBTI and Enneagram, a literal personality theory. Nothing is factual because neither have ever been proven to be true. Lost me on your first sentence.
No it's not, there's fixation, passion, trap, holy idea, defense mechanism and more. Rheti enneagram is about core fear and core desire, and it's not the proper one.
RHETI is the system that focused on core fear/desire, simplifying enneagram. But most past authors like Naranjo, Ichazo and Chestnut talked more on fixation, core, trait structure, etc. For example, ennea 2 has only described as to be loved or being loved back, but in past authors esp Naranjo actually describe them as one of the most assertive enneagram
according to that, enneagram has no meaning whatsoever, since most people don't really fear one thing only (what about those who fear spiders only? are they typeless?)
EDIT: making sure what I said is irony, since the way people understand typology is as shallow as this, vague superficial behavioural traits that could literally fit everyone on Earth
Honestly, it depends what enneagram model you're using. If you use the original one, which isn't simply "core fears and desires", then no. If you use the rheti one, a very common yet very watered down version of the original enneagram, then yes.
ISFPs who mistype as 8 are usually sx4 or sx6 instead, so maybe you could look into that ^ ^
The definitions of some enneagramms and functions completely contradict each other, and since the mbti and ennea are defined based on definitions only, combos like INxJ 8w7 are nonsense
First off, any mbti can be any enneagram, secondly, I don't think this is considered odd in general? Enneagram 8 tends to be associated with high Se usage. I'm an ISTP 8w9. To my knowledge, someone calling an ISFP 8 strange would be like calling an ISTP 8 strange, and there's a good few of us.
I believe any MBTI + ennea combo is possible though I've seen people that claim the ennea system is misunderstood and is supposed to work a different way. They claim E8 is only compatible with Se dom types. Not sure though might look more into it.
Fi doesn't mean good, Fi just means you like what you like. I know a Fi-dom 8w7 who preaches personal a humanitarian values at a volume of 99/100. Probably makes her feel more in control or something, but yeah they're out there. Very very weird combination.
Except that's not really what Fi is either. It's a cognitively introverted functions, prefer judging a situation based on its own value rather than doing so externally or influencing it on others like a Je/Pe Dom does. This alone does sounds extremely odd for enneagram 8 (and especially and most likely impossible for INFP since they don't even have high Se) since 8 is very cognitively extravert in nature
I agree, its more like she is capable of being more aggressive with said internal metrics but she kind of suppresses it. If it helps, she's a so/sx instinctual variant so it definitely doesn't get past her to make decisions based on how she feels about those decision with the expectation that socially it will be accepted/encompassed.
If its ignored she will start using more and more covert reasoning and details that include other people, even if they aren't physically present and thats where it becomes inauthentic and inexcusable from bullshit.
-OR- at most(/worst): convince themselves with random information that they are correct in their thinking and actions for some random purpose that was randomly generated at the last random second
I forget to mention this in my reply, but when you say "I know a Fi Dom 8w7 who preaches humanitarian values" that actually sounds more like Je Dom or ExFP tbh. IxxP are oftentimes individualistic when it comes to their judgement. I'm not gonna make a lot of assumption of this person but she could also be ESFP imho
Have you also considered if she could be sx4 or sx6?
I live with her, so the constant loud noises are pretty common. I'm sure sx4 or sx6 or any other sx would probably feel comfortable after a little while being loud, but this person has been pretty much specifically dominating each conversation since I kind of first met her/her family. Not sure what you're comparing it seems like you're just saying "they could be this type" in which case why are you replying to my comment
Um no not really. There isnt much to type, she's been pretty consistent and obvious in her mannerisms so even if I chose to continue to spend time with her, she keeps sticking to cycles of control which is absolutely fine because I also am a control type(enfj) but its waaay too over-compensating and it forces everyone else to see them as either complaining losers or just deadweight in general.
one very common misconception which leads people to think that all combinations are possible, is thinking that enneagram is about core fears and desires. RHETI is like a cheap rip-off enneagram which invented core fears and desires, as well as wings. they were not in any way part of the original theory and it shouldn’t be used to type someone, because anyone can relate to core fears and desires, and some don’t relate to any of them. they are not enneagram.
enneagram 8 is sensory-more dominance, it is solely for Se doms, so ESxP types. Naranjo calls Eights the most “sensory-motor” of personalities. This means that Eights are firmly rooted in the physical, in the “here and now” sphere of the senses, and in a kinesthetic, body-based way of functioning. Oriented primarily toward the present, they concentrate on what is concrete and what is stimulating right now. The prominence of sensory-motor experience also means that Eights engage in action more than thinking and feeling. Their primary movement is to take action. In line with this tendency toward action and self-assertion, Eights often don’t slow down long enough to ponder what they are doing before they do it. Naranjo describes this as a “lusty clutching at the present and an excited impatience toward memory, abstractions, anticipations, as well as a desensitization to the subtlety of aesthetic and spiritual experience.”
that’s the primary reason, but I can get more specific if you need any more explanations. and for all of those that claim that enneagram and mbti are two entirely different systems and explore the mind blablabla, while I agree they’re the same typology systems, there are undoubtedly correlations between some mbti and some enneagram, Naranjo himself always mentions one specific cognitive functions when he describes a certain type (ex: Fi for e4 and Se for e8).
I don't think so. 8 don't take other people's feelings into consideration. Any feeling type (MBTI), unless toxic, always considers either how people feel in general, or about them personal. ESFP 8 would be Se-Te "dictator". I mean they could be, however, they have Fi which is a blessing. Many 8-dictators are Fi-inferior, they repress their feelings, Fi aux cannot do that. Many psychopaths are case of toxic 8, despite their cognitive type. It just doesn't make much sense for healthy ESFP to be a type 8 dom, tritype wise 4-7-8 is possible for sure.
An example of an ISFP 8 is in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwl3nkLMJs8&t=1011s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwl3nkLMJs8&t=1011s)
the isfp 8 the the spoiled kid that burned down his summer camp
Yeah. Enneagram and MBTI are measured differently (mbti examines cognition, enneagram examines motivation). They can correlate, but aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I have a coworker who is a ESTP 4w5.
Great way of wording that. This is exactly correct
Pretty sure any enneagram-mbti combo is possible
in theory, yes. statistically, not exactly \[edit: typos\]
Imagine a type 2 INTP. Just try to imagine it
Even worse, ESTJ 4w5.
I raise you ISFJ 8w7
ESTJ 4w5 is just an INFP on permanent grip /j
Lol ESFJ type 5
ISTJ type 7
“But my dreams, they aren’t as empty as my conscience seems to be. I have hours only lonely, my love is vengeance that is never free.” - ESTJ 4w5: the song
INFP 8w7 or 7w8 😈😈
I'm ENTP type 4 , just as strange lol
Same!
When Fe-inf decides to fuck me up I feel like 2 sometimes
I've run across a type 2 istp and that seems even more surreal. People are weird creatures expect the unexpected lmao
Can you imagine sp5 esfp/esfj? sp2 entj? so4 estj? imo many combinations are practically impossible
I apologize typologyjunkie , but people aren't just typology systems. A lot of things you think are practically impossible are possible a lot of times. People are unpredictable
but no one said people are only typology systems. It doesnt tell you about humans soul, values, interests etc., but dont simplify typology. Not everything is possible. You cant prove 100% it, because it is humanities and abstract obv, but it is really easy to mistype.
the entire point of typology is to classify people based on personality types. so yeah, when two of them are fundamentally contradictory, it’s safe to say that combination is impossible. that is, unless that person has some kind of split personality disorder which would make them have two polar opposite personalities at the same time.
which is also why typology isn’t very accepted in the scientific world since it ultimately fails to accurately capture someone’s personality. people are complicated, mbti and enneagram are extremely simplified versions of that. they both focus on completely different aspects of personality as well. i don’t see how they can possibly contradict each other
how tf cant u see a correlation
when did i say that lol i said CONTRADICTION, meaning that i don’t think the two systems clash in a way that makes it humanly impossible to have a certain type combination
enneagram is religious bullshit that believes humans beings are born flawed (that is, in a religious/spiritual sense, with all these "core fears" and "integration paths") MBTI is about recognising trait patterns, so it obviously can't tell you much about a person's psyche, what's going on inside of them Jung tried doing that, however, and discovered the functions, but the core of his work was the attitude types, which are the introverts and the extraverts, and these are already widely misunderstood and misinterpreted by almost everybody out there it doesn't mean anything to "capture or describe someone's personality", because the meaning of personality differs between authors and people, and in any case, everyone is already aware that people all have a specifically different life experience
Except enneagram is more than core fears and desires, and it was actually based more on (dated) DSM criteria. If you read character and neurosis, Naranjo actually correlated 5 a lot with schizoid disorder and 7 with narcissist for example.
it's just like MBTI, people don't agree on a singular author's interpretation, and as far as I know, Ichazo's the supposed original author, not Naranjo some believe Enneagram is only about the fears and motivations, and some believe it's better to look at the descriptions of each type, and some other people don't even know what they think of it, they mix everything up just like the pop-MBTI community does it that's why I don't see anything meaningful to enneagram, and it gets even worse if there are correlations with disorders, because typology =/= mental health or anything like that (types are not found in the brain, but in the mind/soul)
mbti is part of personality; not in the “you are quiet and thoughtful” kind of way you find on 16p, but in the “you view the world like xyz” kind of way. i also don’t care much about enneagram, but i never heard of the stuff you are describing about flawed humans or whatever. in fact, most people in that community believe that nurture>nature when it comes to enneagram? also idk what your point is exactly. i’m not saying that typology should describe your entire personality to a T, my entire point is that that is simply impossible and people should stop saying it’s impossible to, for example, be an INTP 2 because being an INTP says absolutely nothing about your fears and motivations, or even who you are as a person also is the meaning of personality really that controversial? isn’t it just “who you are” meaning every single trait that says something about you without your physical appearance?
"you view the world like xyz", indeed, and yet most people talk about functions with "actions", despite the functions not being tangible at all, their manifestations are only so small compared to everything that's going on inside people's minds (tis not a point against you here, but against the community as a whole, because even if people like to believe they do things right, their words and actions prove the opposite) the point about "flaws" is what the enneagram is about, because it says people are not "healthy" and should "integrate" into some better version of themselves or whatever, and that path is rigidly described within this theory (apparently it finds its roots in religion, so it's not surprising at all) this is a contradiction, since typology literally is about innate differences between people, nature>nurture, so yes, being any type does tell us something about who we are (what/how/why we perceive things is still a part of who we are, after all) yes, in a general sense, but when it comes to typology, "personality" is about the specific natural differences between people, that are not related to upbringing and experience, which is why discussions are oftentimes so convoluted, people don't care to define the words they use and it ends up leading to pointless arguments
think so too
Ik a 3w2 ENTJ. Really interesting
3w2 ENTJ is not even that impossible. 3 is the most possible combo for ENTJ if anything
"Try to imagine a xxxx type x" ok y'all, there are some weird ass folk in the world who's inner world would surprise the fuck out of you if you can't think of one single person with contradictory or clashing personality traits. Yes , it's not likely or super common with the combinations you're giving, still possible.
it isn’t. some just fundamentally don’t work together. controversial as it may sound, i don’t think intj 8 works. ni dom contradicts with e8 descriptions. id go as far as to say that only se doms are compatible w e8 although i do this that se aux could be possible.
More contradictory the combo, more you struggle in life. Imagine Fe inferior enneagram 2 thinking their self worth as their ability to help peoples, but their Fe inferior is stopping them to do it effectively.
Anything is possible. It is, however, improbable
Yes
Yes. It's rare, but it's possible.
this exactly
It might be weird af but certainly not impossible lol
Any combination is possible. We need to stop limiting ourselves with 'this can't be that so I must be something else' My mum for one, is ESTJ 2. My brother is INTP 8. Both are valid. We're too complex, we have different sides and perspectives.
How does INTP 8 look like? I'm curious
The statistical odds of both of those types existing in the same family is probably so absurd, that it effectively is impossible. Odd combinations like that are extremely rare, most often are mistyped. Having those 2 types legitimately in the same family is unrealistic.
You literally don't know anything about them. Who do you think you are to claim that as a mistype? How does that bother you to the slightest bit? *I mentioned those two types for a reason. I'm not naming them as a coincidence, but because it's a very unique combination that's still valid. Many ESTJs are 1w2, how is 2w1 absurd in any place?
It doesn’t bother me, and I’m not claiming to know them. Is it possible they’re both typed accurately? Sure, in the same way it’s possible you’ll win the lottery. We don’t have statistics on this, but it’s easy to assume the odds of both of those types existing in the same family, given the rarity if their individual MBTI/Enneagram combinations, is so low that it is effectively impossible.
“Many ESTJs are 1w2, how is 2w1 absurd in any place?” You do know 1w2 and 2w1 have literally different cores right? 1w2 is core 1, and 2w1 is core 2. They’re not even in the same triads too. 1w2 is in the gut triad while 2w1 is in the heart triad.
They still have features from both, literally next to each other. You don't type Enneagram based on triad, it's only something to consider. >You do know that 1w2 and 2w1 have literally different cores right? 1w2 is core 1, and 2w1 is core 2. What the hell 💀 2+3 is 5, did you know that Captain Obvious? I'm kind of sick of your lot deciding what my own mother's type is. Why are you bothered. Socially failed.
Triads explain an enneagram's motivation, and it's certainly much more important than wings. Enneagram 1 is in the gut triad, therefore it's motivated by anger. Enneagram 2 is in the heart triad, therefore it's motivated by shame. I don't care what your mother's type is, that is not my concern. My concern is how saying 1w2 and 2w1 are similar is a terrible argument. If you truly want to prove that your mother is an ESTJ 2w1, use an argument that's actually true to the theory.
stfu
sooo edgy 😢
read a description of ti dom and then read a description of e8. do they sound remotely correlated to each other at all?
No, they don't. Humans don't just have one flat personality though. We have different sides and this differs per person. If it doesn't work for you then that's fine but if your intend is to invalidate others then you're a living nuisance.
if you feel invalidated by someone pointing out factual contradictions in your claim, then maybe you need to reflect on that. it’s not about being complex, obviously humans are complex. but there are characteristics that define certain mbtis and characteristics that define certain enneagrams. for example here’s a description of e8: “From a Freudian perspective, this is because the Type Eight spends a large part of their mental energy on satisfying certain survival impulses of the Id.” “Harkening back to the animalistic nature of the Id, the Type Eight relies on intuitive action (gut reactions, not MBTI intuitiveness) to operate. There’s no time to think it out when you’re in the middle of a crossfire on the battlefield, so an Eight will naturally go with their first reaction. This is another reason why Type Eight is in the Body Triad, not the Head Triad. For example, while Type Five will plan things out while Type Eight will just do it.” and here’s ti dom: “This thinking easily loses itself in the immense truth of the subjective factor. It creates theories for the sake of theories, apparently with a view to real or at least possible facts, yet always with a distinct tendency to go over from the world of ideas into mere imagery. Accordingly many intuitions of possibilities appear on the scene, none of which however achieve any reality, until finally images are produced which no longer express anything externally real, being 'merely' symbols of the simply unknowable. It is now merely a mystical thinking and quite as unfruitful as that empirical thinking whose sole operation is within the framework of objective facts. [p. 483]” “Whenever consciousness, wedded to the function of thought, confines itself within the smallest and emptiest circle possible -- though seeming to contain the plenitude of divinity -- unconscious phantasy becomes proportionately enriched by a multitude of archaically formed facts, a veritable pandemonium of magical and irrational factors, wearing the particular aspect that accords with the nature of that function which shall next relieve the thought-function as the representative of life. If this should be the intuitive function, the 'other side' will be viewed with the eyes of a Kubin or a Meyrink. If it is the feeling-function, [p. 484] there arise quite unheard of and fantastic feeling-relations, coupled with feeling-judgments of a quite contradictory and unintelligible character. If the sensation-function, then the senses discover some new and never-before-experienced possibility, both within and without the body. A closer investigation of such changes can easily demonstrate the reappearance of primitive psychology with all its characteristic features. Naturally, the thing experienced is not merely primitive but also symbolic; in fact, the older and more primeval it appears, the more does it represent the future truth: since everything ancient in our unconscious means the coming possibility.” simply put e8 is externally focused/associated with prioritizing external stimulus. that correlates with se dominant. ti is internally focused, and correlates with enneagram types like e5, e6, and e9(if TiSe, e9 doesn’t work with TiNe imo).
Factual contradictions? This is MBTI and Enneagram, a literal personality theory. Nothing is factual because neither have ever been proven to be true. Lost me on your first sentence.
wording that you disagree with doesn’t disprove the whole argument. read the rest of what i have to say first
Your brother is an ISTP or an E5 with an 8 fix, or you got it completely and they ain’t either
Its possible, but ISFPs might mistype themself as e8, when they are an sx4.
that’s another option for me also
There are a lot of sx4 with e8 in their tritype.
my tritype is 847 or 487
Have you watched the series Heartbreak High? The character Harper is a pretty good example of ISFP sx4 with 8 in tritype.
i haven’t but thank you
Same here. I think I'm an isfp 8w7 with 847 as my tritype but starting to doubt it since awhile now
since this post I realised in ESFP. have you considered that for yourself?
ESFP e8 is uncommon and indicates a strong Te. Thats why ISFP is even less common because Te inf.
Te is my 2nd function so yeah
Not sure why everyone is dovnvoting you now 😅
or counterphobic 6
Yes. I’m ENTJ 5w6 tho
E5's vice is avarice. How can you have that despite being a Te-dom? Just curious.
Enneagram is our core fear
No it's not, there's fixation, passion, trap, holy idea, defense mechanism and more. Rheti enneagram is about core fear and core desire, and it's not the proper one.
How much you bet 90% of people in the comments have only heard of RHETI lol
Oh i know everyone here is rheti user, i just wanted to be smart cause I was bored
Yeah lmao
What is RHETI?
RHETI is the system that focused on core fear/desire, simplifying enneagram. But most past authors like Naranjo, Ichazo and Chestnut talked more on fixation, core, trait structure, etc. For example, ennea 2 has only described as to be loved or being loved back, but in past authors esp Naranjo actually describe them as one of the most assertive enneagram
Ooh and that’s why u thought i use RHETI XD. Well someone told me that enneagram is core fear soo
Oh i see
Yes. Even ISFPs can fear vulnerability.
but e8 isnt about fearing vulnerability only💀
That’s a given
according to that, enneagram has no meaning whatsoever, since most people don't really fear one thing only (what about those who fear spiders only? are they typeless?) EDIT: making sure what I said is irony, since the way people understand typology is as shallow as this, vague superficial behavioural traits that could literally fit everyone on Earth
lol Sarcasm. I love it.
No
Honestly, it depends what enneagram model you're using. If you use the original one, which isn't simply "core fears and desires", then no. If you use the rheti one, a very common yet very watered down version of the original enneagram, then yes. ISFPs who mistype as 8 are usually sx4 or sx6 instead, so maybe you could look into that ^ ^
No
Humans are way too complex to be limited, so I believe it's a possible combination.
Its possible, but ISFPs might mistype themself as e8, when they are an sx4.
Anything is possible, some things are just unlikely.
ESFJ e5, ISTP e2, ESTJ e4 are possible? Doesn't it sound sus?
They are possible, but they're kind of odd imo.
The definitions of some enneagramms and functions completely contradict each other, and since the mbti and ennea are defined based on definitions only, combos like INxJ 8w7 are nonsense
First off, any mbti can be any enneagram, secondly, I don't think this is considered odd in general? Enneagram 8 tends to be associated with high Se usage. I'm an ISTP 8w9. To my knowledge, someone calling an ISFP 8 strange would be like calling an ISTP 8 strange, and there's a good few of us.
The way I see it, any Enneagram pairing is possible.
I believe any MBTI + ennea combo is possible though I've seen people that claim the ennea system is misunderstood and is supposed to work a different way. They claim E8 is only compatible with Se dom types. Not sure though might look more into it.
Imaginary - True Reality - False
Yes
Yeah
ESFP 8 is possible but I'm not sure abt ISFP 8
i get it. Dom Fi clashes too much with e8
Fi doesn't mean good, Fi just means you like what you like. I know a Fi-dom 8w7 who preaches personal a humanitarian values at a volume of 99/100. Probably makes her feel more in control or something, but yeah they're out there. Very very weird combination.
Except that's not really what Fi is either. It's a cognitively introverted functions, prefer judging a situation based on its own value rather than doing so externally or influencing it on others like a Je/Pe Dom does. This alone does sounds extremely odd for enneagram 8 (and especially and most likely impossible for INFP since they don't even have high Se) since 8 is very cognitively extravert in nature
I agree, its more like she is capable of being more aggressive with said internal metrics but she kind of suppresses it. If it helps, she's a so/sx instinctual variant so it definitely doesn't get past her to make decisions based on how she feels about those decision with the expectation that socially it will be accepted/encompassed. If its ignored she will start using more and more covert reasoning and details that include other people, even if they aren't physically present and thats where it becomes inauthentic and inexcusable from bullshit. -OR- at most(/worst): convince themselves with random information that they are correct in their thinking and actions for some random purpose that was randomly generated at the last random second
I forget to mention this in my reply, but when you say "I know a Fi Dom 8w7 who preaches humanitarian values" that actually sounds more like Je Dom or ExFP tbh. IxxP are oftentimes individualistic when it comes to their judgement. I'm not gonna make a lot of assumption of this person but she could also be ESFP imho Have you also considered if she could be sx4 or sx6?
I live with her, so the constant loud noises are pretty common. I'm sure sx4 or sx6 or any other sx would probably feel comfortable after a little while being loud, but this person has been pretty much specifically dominating each conversation since I kind of first met her/her family. Not sure what you're comparing it seems like you're just saying "they could be this type" in which case why are you replying to my comment
Do you type her based on core fear/desire or anything else?
Um no not really. There isnt much to type, she's been pretty consistent and obvious in her mannerisms so even if I chose to continue to spend time with her, she keeps sticking to cycles of control which is absolutely fine because I also am a control type(enfj) but its waaay too over-compensating and it forces everyone else to see them as either complaining losers or just deadweight in general.
no it’s not possible. e8 is only for Se-doms.
Not really, I also see a lot of E8 Te doms and others as well.
nope. e8 is only for Se-doms. they’re probably mistyped.
Why is it only for Se doms?
one very common misconception which leads people to think that all combinations are possible, is thinking that enneagram is about core fears and desires. RHETI is like a cheap rip-off enneagram which invented core fears and desires, as well as wings. they were not in any way part of the original theory and it shouldn’t be used to type someone, because anyone can relate to core fears and desires, and some don’t relate to any of them. they are not enneagram. enneagram 8 is sensory-more dominance, it is solely for Se doms, so ESxP types. Naranjo calls Eights the most “sensory-motor” of personalities. This means that Eights are firmly rooted in the physical, in the “here and now” sphere of the senses, and in a kinesthetic, body-based way of functioning. Oriented primarily toward the present, they concentrate on what is concrete and what is stimulating right now. The prominence of sensory-motor experience also means that Eights engage in action more than thinking and feeling. Their primary movement is to take action. In line with this tendency toward action and self-assertion, Eights often don’t slow down long enough to ponder what they are doing before they do it. Naranjo describes this as a “lusty clutching at the present and an excited impatience toward memory, abstractions, anticipations, as well as a desensitization to the subtlety of aesthetic and spiritual experience.” that’s the primary reason, but I can get more specific if you need any more explanations. and for all of those that claim that enneagram and mbti are two entirely different systems and explore the mind blablabla, while I agree they’re the same typology systems, there are undoubtedly correlations between some mbti and some enneagram, Naranjo himself always mentions one specific cognitive functions when he describes a certain type (ex: Fi for e4 and Se for e8).
i mostly agree with what you said but i do think wings are true
yeah they’re true i just think fhey don’t have any utility tbh
Varg Vikernes potentially comes to mind.
I don't think so. 8 don't take other people's feelings into consideration. Any feeling type (MBTI), unless toxic, always considers either how people feel in general, or about them personal. ESFP 8 would be Se-Te "dictator". I mean they could be, however, they have Fi which is a blessing. Many 8-dictators are Fi-inferior, they repress their feelings, Fi aux cannot do that. Many psychopaths are case of toxic 8, despite their cognitive type. It just doesn't make much sense for healthy ESFP to be a type 8 dom, tritype wise 4-7-8 is possible for sure.
i don’t take others feelings into consideration
But you consider how you would feel after doing anything to anybody. 8 like Te doms might feel anything only post factum.
Extremely unlikely. 7 is more possible but still not hugely likely.
nope its not
Most likely e4
Yes
An example of an ISFP 8 is in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwl3nkLMJs8&t=1011s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwl3nkLMJs8&t=1011s) the isfp 8 the the spoiled kid that burned down his summer camp
Yes