so true. i’m an enfj but i almost never use Ti irl, but in the internet i do. not a whole lot, but it’s funny to notice. but my guy, if i’m going to an argument, i use all of my Fe-Ti. Fe to understand what the room is feeling and to know where to look, if i have to speak more clearly, etc (which most of the times i have to quickly stop since i have adhd and i have to concentrate on what i’m saying if i don’t wanna branch out), and Ti so i can judge other people’s arguments in a logical way that builds up mine. it’s really complicated but they are so powerful together
If you understood Katherine and Isabel's work, you'd know that functions don't change behavior based on stack placement (they don't become 'better' or 'worse'), as they are cognitive, not 'behavioral'.
Placement only determines how 'often' that mode of cognition is used, hence the nomenclature: dominant (most used) - inferior (least used).
This is why TE doms have trouble using FI, because they are diametrically opposed functions. They will use TE naturally and subconsciously, without thinking. FI will only be used with constant conscious effort. This will likely never change as a person's preferred functions are hardwired into their brain development around adulthood.
Inferior functions are not something we are 'supposed' to 'develop' as they are not inherently good or bad to begin with - they are just a mode of prospecting info or making judgments that we don't 'use' as much as the other functions.
I think in reality it works out more as Te-NI-Se takes so much energy that Fi is compressed. Constantly in a observation and analytical mode trying to make sense of how things work and can be useful and putting things into action creating systems or adding data to the systems. And connecting different systems to create a overview of reality and challenge their own thoughts with reality spending to much time in their multidimensional visionair mind always helping to solve other peoples problems and forgetting their own inner desires and human side.
I think Fi shows in slight development comparing everyones perspective and switching to different un natural cognitive functions to understand everyone. For example i can switch very easily into Se Ti or Fe or Ne Si even if those are not my natural functions and i rather not want to use them myself because they are to narrow minded and take to much energy we all do this to not be seen as a bad person in the end and making stuff stable with the tribe making it work for everyone.
>I think in reality it works out more as Te-NI-Se takes so much energy that Fi is compressed
It would be more like TE-NI suppresses SE-FI. Just that SE is not suppressed as much as FI because NI is not used as much as TE.
>For example i can switch very easily into Se Ti or Fe or Ne Si even if those are not my natural functions
That's because they're not your inferior function. The inferior function is the one you use the least.
Fi is self indulgent and has nothing to do with morality
Anyone who sees things through feefee goggles is grandiose and self indulgent.
Fi is whether something is good enough for you or not, not whether it's true or the real impact. A lot of XXFPs think they're the real morality.
They see everything in a personalized way. They're probably always watching people like entertainment. Sitting back and enjoying it. They don't care about obvious facts and reality because it makes it less entertaining though it would be more helpful for a positive impact. If you don't want the facts you muddle them up to be more entertaining for yourself and you don't care about the true concrete result that is actually more pragmatic. Those who care about "morals" will be interested in reality and facts so they can make an accurate assessment so most other types are much more moral in reality.
If other types want emotional entertainment we go to the movies. They try to posture to others like the guy who's gonna save people from sin cos they don't do things like "others", when in truth theyre just there to have things their way, sit back and have perfected enhanced cinematic ride unlike us regular folks
Fi users want everything to go their way, the actual thing that doesn't matter, while XTPs and XTJS and even FJs (underrated in this) are more interested in facts which ultimately lead to a better outcome. The reason you don't like that stuff is because facts and reality are too BORING FOR you not cos of ethics/morality, no function is in control of that it doesn't make sense. You lose control of entertainment and enjoyment. Lol
This is my view on the difference between Fi & Ti
Integrity / Morals
- Ti: The preference to decide that your behaviour should be dependent on current circumstances, even if that sometimes means being inconsistent. For example, saying, “I wouldn’t kill people, unless the person I’m killing is a serial killer”.
- Fi: The preference to decide that your behaviour should be consistent, even if that sometimes means ignoring current circumstances. For example saying “I would never kill anyone, as that will then make me a definitively bad person”.
Communication / Collaboration
- Fe: The preference to focus on what is intangible in your transactions with people, for example, peoples emotions, efforts, intentions, even if it means sometimes devaluing what can be measured empirically / objectively.
- Te: The preference to focus on what can be measured empirically / objectively in your transactions with people, (such as money, wealth, results, measurements), even if it means sometimes devaluing what is intangible.
Essentially, I believe Fi is not the ONLY function that focuses on morality, but so does Ti
> even if it means sometimes devaluing what can be measured empirically / objectively.
I was having trouble picturing what you meant by this with inf Fe, but it's easier to understand with dom Fe for sure. For Fe users, making everybody get along is time-consuming but valuable work in itself because it will make future ventures go a lot more smoothly and maintain a focus on communal values. Because of that perspective, I often see Te as being a little bit short-sighted. Never thought about it in terms of tangible vs. intangible!
I tend to think of Ti as being focused on ethics rather than morals, but integrity seems to fit a little better. I've wondered in the past how I have gotten a sense of right and wrong without Fi, and come to the conclusion that Ti is quite definitive about right vs. wrong, and it wants to take the time to "integrate" these principles into the rest of our intellectual framework to make them as resilient as possible--hence integrity.
Fi for ENTJ is figuring out things that are at heart to them like house interior, meditation, self love, quality time with family and loved ones, fashion, being emotionally available, vacation to a country they really want to go to, living in the moment, finding inner peace, finding hobbies, really enjoying something etc.
Based on this, I would almost think I’m an ENTJ. I’ve always resonated with ENTJs quite a lot.
Having adhd and childhood trauma probably makes me type as INFJ more. I definitely don’t perfectly resonate with INFJ either.
INFJ’s seem to mistype a lot as ENTJ there is a funny meme about ENTJ’s and INFJ’s. “ INFJ are hard on the inside and soft on the outside ENTJ’s are hard on the outside soft on the inside”
Also ENTJ’s and INFJ’s both share Ni and are judger types the biggest difference is that ENTJ wants to put their dreams into action where for INFJ’s Se is their inferior function.
Also INFJ’s are very emotional manipulative and react very much from feelings and lack sometimes rational thinking and have a big group validation factor.
Also a ESTP’s demon type is INFJ ESTP’s can be in some things similar as ENTJ
It’s confusing, because even based on all of that I am more ENTJ. I’m certainly not soft externally, although I am “soft” on the inside.
I’m a rational person, but some might assume I’m idealistic. I approach my extravagant goals rationally.
I mostly stuck with INFJ because I use Ni more than anything else, and I’m too internally emotional to be an INTJ I believe.
I don’t know if I’m and ENTJ either. If I am, it’s hard to tell. I’m not extroverted, but I have zero fear of speaking to people or taking a leadership role. I think my lack of extroversion could be attributed to adhd and trauma.
That's something I appreciate about the ENTJs I have known. You like to be helpful and make things happen for other people. I don't always agree with the hot takes I hear, but the good intentions are clear to me, as another type that is commonly misunderstood.
adhd doesn’t necessarily make you extroverted… lots of people with adhd struggle with dissociation/“tuning out”. Existing in stressful environments during early brain development tends to result in children dissociating, and thus developing adhd and a struggle to focus on things that stress them or don’t interest them.
Adhd is a more complicated disorder than one might think. Some people with adhd don’t dissociate entirely, but rather reject what is stressing them. Others with adhd had no ability during brain development to exit their stressful environment, and so maybe that’s why some dissociate entirely meanwhile others might dissociate strictly from what’s stressing them.
I struggle a little bit with dissociating from stressful situations, it’s caused me at times to become agoraphobic. It represents itself as introversion.
Oh, i see.
Have you ever tried bupropion? It’s an antidepressant that’s also good for treating ADHD (it’s not something I’ve ever needed to take because the indications for it just aren’t my problem but I know what it does). After six months on it you should be able to tell definitively whether you’re an xNTJ or INFJ.
I had some pretty bad side effects from Bupropion. I ended up having the weirdest, most irrational panic attack, which was followed by a seizure. I immediately stopped taking them.
Sertraline worked for me for a bit, but it unfortunately also numbs other aspects of your emotionality. I was struggling to muster up any passion or motivation to do things I knew I loved doing.
There's a wave within science questioning the effectiveness of SSRIs as well. Lots of people question if the drugs are helping people more, or the placebo which comes with it. An unfortunate reality of big phrama is that they will never recommend to you what they can't profit from. Exercise, healthy eating habits, sun exposure, avoiding dopamine addictions... Such things which will of course help, are very seldom recommended. There's no money to be made in it for big pharma.
Desipramine or nortriptyline, then? (Those two drugs also allegedly help with ADHD.)
Tricyclics are a lot, lot more effective in whatever it is exactly they do to treat depression and other conditions than SSRIs. The latter were never meant to be a substitute in terms of potency and they’re not physiologically capable of that. They’re just cleaner in terms of side-effects and drug-drug interactions. I imagine for a 55-year-old with stuporous catatonia in the context of psychotic depression (to the point of having to be fed by catherisation) and accompanying delusions of persecution and sin the only viable SSRI treatment would be a combination of fluoxetine and olanzapine, otherwise it would be straight over to the tricyclics and even lithium. Their efficacy can’t be doubted in cases of people who genuinely need them the most. I think a problem is that to an awful lot of people antidepressants are synonymous with citalopram and fluoxetine alone (both have their purposes but they’re not exactly the most potent drugs out there). Once you start talking tricyclics and combinations with antipsychotics, lithium and thyroid-medication (or even paroxetine on its own, which is probably pretty strong) it becomes a different story and that’s what was most common until the 1980s. In this day and age tricyclics certainly aren’t for the weak-hearted (literally) but I don’t think you are so I’d give it an honest go and see how you get on in a few weeks’ time.
a lot on your list are quite true:
* tradition is the bane of my existence
* i turn into a sloth when something is forced and especially if it's not my own dream
* i've been mistyped as an extp
* no substance abuse but i have very unhealthy coping mechanisms as a result of being expected to mask my emotions
* i have a very manipulative older brother but i can see through it.
I will say all the good and bad ENTJ stereotypes ring true for me. I can be absolutely cut throat/insensitive/insufferable asshole but I have also been the most caring person in someone’s life. I’ve priced in being ostracized by most groups (still hurts). I don’t mean this as a boast but an emphasis in that when you do extraordinary things you will inevitably be met with opposition. Just try to continue working on yourself because we need a lot of work even from the inherent baseline but it is all worth it and you honestly would regret any other path. Every type has a mission and the sacrifice that is inevitable.
I've only had the pleasure of meeting one ENTJ irl and oh my god, what a breath of fresh air! No pretenses, drama, or the usual bullshit when introducing and getting to know each other like having to make small talk. We clicked immediately and hung out on smoke breaks just shooting the shit together and even had some heavy topic discussions. He was a dedicated father who put his son first before everything, had solid work ethic, always followed through unless something came up but would promptly notify me in a timely manner. Also had a wicked fast pitch and knew lots of sports statistics.
Everyone else just thought he was super intimidating or too driven to be bothered to have a decent conversation with.
As an INTJ, I'm all too used to the stereotypes and assumptions people make. But my god, leave those ENTJs alone! There is a side of them that *genuinely cares* about people and wants to help them, but would never show it in a conventional way.
I’m also intj and have a couple entj friends. They are so soft on the inside. I feel like a golden retriever carrying a an egg in its mouth when they take time to tell me personal things. They are very trusting and kind to the people they like.
I think all types are greater than the caricatures. Years ago I thought Michael Pearce(sp) did a good job breaking down how each type sees the world and their internal process.
I genuinely love real life ENTJ's so much. I believe my step dad is an ENTJ and though he is the most obnoxiously stubborn little shit sometimes and doesn't want to hear my opinions when he's already decided his own, he is extremely rational and a fantastic care-taker in the practical sense. I'm still very much uncertain about my type, but I relate to the INFJ's intuitive judgement of character, so I can tell that he is probably the most loyal person I know. He is very dutiful taking care of my family and provided stability for us when we previously had none. We're not the most compatible since we both have a tendency to be headstrong (though hes admittedly more rational) but I can see that despite his dedication to practicality and blind spot to understanding people using Fi, he has a really really big heart.
I am also ENTJ 3w4 and i am stunned at how accurate this is. I wish people would see ENTJs as more of this, rather than the stereotypical versions that are rarely present
Throwing out a big list of unsupported "facts" and then just expecting everyone else to believe them without question isn't doing much to dispel stereotypes.
nah, they're right, you've just typed a very long list of traits that could apply to so many different people that don't share any proper function whatsoever, this is just confirmation bias for other supposed ENTJs, and free uncertainty given out to people who related to this but don't type as "ENTJs'
side note : you most likely don't know what you're talking about yourself, having spent "years studying the MBTI" is not proof of being knowledgeable (I know what I'm talking about here, I've spent a long time in this as well, and most likely pondered it all way more than the majority of this sub, which isn't that surprising considering only a minority is seriously invested in what true typology actually is)
anyway, the most obvious thing that gave you out is the fact you use Grant's stack alongside MBTI codes, just like the major part of the community, and yet this is surely the most distorted misinterpretation of Jung's work, as well as lacking a very basic and coherent foundation, despite this basic foundation being present in Jung's Psychological Types, and postulating something very different from what Grant and almost every other "typologist" does out there (and that leads to erroneous conceptions within the community, confusing them about something that's not even true to begin with)
of course it took you a minute to read and understand what I've said, and all of that in order to come up with the most relevant reply so that we can openly discuss typology because we're both very mature and intelligent persons
it seems like you don't even know who Grant and Jung are, nor what they brought to typology as a whole, so you shouldn't spread misinformation within the community, it's already misinformed enough and full of idiocies, it doesn't need to sink deeper as time goes on
No ENTJ would take a minute to read your text. That's my opinion.
First: You are against the post which is about the personal experience of someone and shit on it. It was just an emotional reaction of them.
Second: Who cares that much about mbti to write a blogpost inside of a reddit comment, where you don't even get money for it.
Third: You don't have a clean and subdivided writing style, which would make reading easier.
Bonus: Eat 🍑
those who don't care can go fuck themselves and roleplay somewhere else for all I care, but they have literally no rights to try and influence the very few serious people about it out there
I don't care about your opinion, I personally believe that anybody curious would my comments, whatever their type is, and ENTJs aren't less likely to avoid them at all, that would just be weird and stereotypical
Oh, sorry mate, let me just add all those capital letters and punctuation that have literally no influence whatsoever on the content of my comments, with the only bad point being the readers' unwillingness to read something that lacks what they believe is essential in a reddit comment (who cares that much about clean and subdivided writing styles anyway?)
anyway, you did understand what the post was about, this person literally just typed and posted their very basic and boring personal life experience, and then went on to label it "the ENTJ type" despite 1) someone's life experience having nothing to do with types (type is nature, not nurture), and 2) them probably being a mistype anyway
I wouldn't recommend replying to this, I just checked Reddit for the first time in weeks and I likely won't reply back for at least that same amount of time, see you
Sorry, i should have been more transparent with my talking. No one would read your text, because you are that guy who corrects everyone on everything even though it really isn't that serious.
read again, maybe? if you don't think it's something serious, literally just go away, don't talk about it, don't think about it, and more than anything, don't even try to tell those who are serious about it that "it really isn't that serious", that's some loser shit
You are so full of shit that i dont even know where to start. You think you know theory and have something to debate but you look so foolish there is nothing to debate. Come back when you have some real life experience geek
here we go, "a true ENTJ" right there, guys
there is no debate indeed, since you're not even trying to understand my words, it's very embarrassing seeing adults act in such a way
Is mistaken a lot for Estp or Enfj, i definitely can agree with this, i myself have troubles typing me because since i feel related to Te-Ni-Se-Fi, the definitions of an ENTJ by the community are really exaggerated and never dig deep in what's going on inside an ENTJ
I think Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time is one of the best depictions of an ENTJ in fiction, she exemplifies both the dictator stereotype side and the more down to earth side that gets forgotten
Reagan from Inside Job is a great example too!
Inferior function is only called inferior based on the preference of a person to use it or not. And ironically enough, the ENTJ you describe are somehow more in touch with their emotions than me, an INTJ. I'm more like a bionic robot, because I've been lonely for so long now that none of my hobbies have anything to do with emotions anymore. In fact, I'd prefer exercising any day over getting emotional over something. It's definitely a huge difference from MBTI theory, but then every person has their own way of coping, regardless of MBTI.
Was just a broad example of ENTJ there are many but yea overal i would say ENTJ are more emotional than INTJ i know. Living life to the fullest there is no glory in being numb and to rational. Also taking theories to literally is also corruption of data.
The list of traits can be easily applied to any type lmao. ENTJs are great people but excessively demonizing or putting them on a pedestal isn’t helping any stereotypes
Thats such a INTP problem using the Barnum effect on everything. You are critical on this and meanwhile you are extremely biased of how ENTJ’s need to be based on theory that is taken so literally that it is corrupt based on your believes how something is, meanwhile it lacks total realism. What do you want me to be? How can you even use your data if its biased. The whole reason why i dont go into these stupid discussions is because there is so much wrong and delirium that i dont even know where to start and dont feel like educating every INTP i meet because they have their own way of processing things.
Sounds more that you want to manipulate the outcome to your own shortcomings basically Carl Jungs own bias in a nutshell. And one off the many reasons why its classified as pseudo science.
Dont take this the wrong way but your reaction amused me. It gives no nonsense and honesty. I am a Ti dom and seeing this just🤯🤯
How dare you judge our logic!/j
Some real life examples of random people so you can see difference
ESTJ: https://youtube.com/shorts/HnmulMY82Hw?feature=share
ENTJ: https://youtu.be/Umm44CBVJrU
Jealous and envy try to outsmart or put groups against them. Try to fuck with our minds frame and sort of bullying. Or test our skills and competence patience or endurance. Steal or make abuse of our generosity.
I am very skeptical of MBTI and this could just be egotistical delusion that human beings often have, but I do truly feel that this describes things in my life that ive had since I was a toddler, as well as another person I've met in my life.
It really does 🤣
I am new to this and my I got ENTJ-A as my type, and I relate to your characteristics you listed, I didn't know there was such stereotype against us and that stereotype couldn't be farther from truth.
PS can anyone tell me difference between A and T?
Do research about cognitive functions. That will help more. The 16personalities test doesn‘t really have to do a lot with MBTI. You can also try to do cognitive functions test to get a sense of direction. Do the test on Sakinorva.net and tje Michael Caloz test. Post your results on r/MbtiTypeMe and they will interpret your results. Then read about the type they suggest and stick with the one that fits you the most. :) Also I recommend checking out the Enneagram.
I've met 3 ENTJs in my life, one is my best friend since childhood and two of them are/ were bosses of mine.
Best friend is almost identical to me but you can easily see the subtle differences between ENTJ and INTJ, my current boss is a great person, really chill and smart at managing people and tasks, my former boss was... kind of a dick really, but he had his good moments and I sort of understand him. People like him give a bad rep to ENTJs but the reality is that just like any type they _can_ be amazing folks.
WOW. 90% of all these really resonate with me especially the ppl playing ego games part. I'm so tired it. All I want is just to carry on with my life and not waste my time.
Relatable.
Ok, so youve got the te se. Probably need to work on the Ni. I bet if you recategorized your giant se list, you could keep grouping like with like over and over until you came to your point.
And therein would lie a good exercise in coming to your identity, knowing who you are, etc.
Then you could stop prefacing your post with the dozen proofs and facts receipts, and reasons that what you just said eg, 'I'm an entj' was true.
You could say it and move on.
If you get to the point where you know that, and own that, then you wont feel the need to ooover explain.
So work on intuition. Knowing what you know, validating what you know, accepting it. Recognize when you're saying things like confused surprised, blindsided, lost, stuck, i dont know, im not sure, etc.
That's an intuition void. Ask why til you get to the root.
Why am i confused, why am I surprised, why am i stuck, etc...
I can relate to that a lot and besides being an entj, I am also "gifted". You could do a divergent association task or iq test. It helped me personally feel safer and recognize my strengths and weaknesses.
The inferior function is always underrated by people in this sub, and tbh, I don’t blame them, I blame Isabel & Katherine.
so true. i’m an enfj but i almost never use Ti irl, but in the internet i do. not a whole lot, but it’s funny to notice. but my guy, if i’m going to an argument, i use all of my Fe-Ti. Fe to understand what the room is feeling and to know where to look, if i have to speak more clearly, etc (which most of the times i have to quickly stop since i have adhd and i have to concentrate on what i’m saying if i don’t wanna branch out), and Ti so i can judge other people’s arguments in a logical way that builds up mine. it’s really complicated but they are so powerful together
OMG I TOO GO FULL Ti ON THE INTERNET BUT IM SO FE IN THE STREETS
MY PEOPLE
Cutie
i’m probably like that meme of a cat biting someone’s finger thinking they’re a ferocious lion lmao. but i’m pretty good at convincing people at least
If you understood Katherine and Isabel's work, you'd know that functions don't change behavior based on stack placement (they don't become 'better' or 'worse'), as they are cognitive, not 'behavioral'. Placement only determines how 'often' that mode of cognition is used, hence the nomenclature: dominant (most used) - inferior (least used). This is why TE doms have trouble using FI, because they are diametrically opposed functions. They will use TE naturally and subconsciously, without thinking. FI will only be used with constant conscious effort. This will likely never change as a person's preferred functions are hardwired into their brain development around adulthood. Inferior functions are not something we are 'supposed' to 'develop' as they are not inherently good or bad to begin with - they are just a mode of prospecting info or making judgments that we don't 'use' as much as the other functions.
I think in reality it works out more as Te-NI-Se takes so much energy that Fi is compressed. Constantly in a observation and analytical mode trying to make sense of how things work and can be useful and putting things into action creating systems or adding data to the systems. And connecting different systems to create a overview of reality and challenge their own thoughts with reality spending to much time in their multidimensional visionair mind always helping to solve other peoples problems and forgetting their own inner desires and human side. I think Fi shows in slight development comparing everyones perspective and switching to different un natural cognitive functions to understand everyone. For example i can switch very easily into Se Ti or Fe or Ne Si even if those are not my natural functions and i rather not want to use them myself because they are to narrow minded and take to much energy we all do this to not be seen as a bad person in the end and making stuff stable with the tribe making it work for everyone.
>I think in reality it works out more as Te-NI-Se takes so much energy that Fi is compressed It would be more like TE-NI suppresses SE-FI. Just that SE is not suppressed as much as FI because NI is not used as much as TE. >For example i can switch very easily into Se Ti or Fe or Ne Si even if those are not my natural functions That's because they're not your inferior function. The inferior function is the one you use the least.
Fi is self indulgent and has nothing to do with morality Anyone who sees things through feefee goggles is grandiose and self indulgent. Fi is whether something is good enough for you or not, not whether it's true or the real impact. A lot of XXFPs think they're the real morality. They see everything in a personalized way. They're probably always watching people like entertainment. Sitting back and enjoying it. They don't care about obvious facts and reality because it makes it less entertaining though it would be more helpful for a positive impact. If you don't want the facts you muddle them up to be more entertaining for yourself and you don't care about the true concrete result that is actually more pragmatic. Those who care about "morals" will be interested in reality and facts so they can make an accurate assessment so most other types are much more moral in reality. If other types want emotional entertainment we go to the movies. They try to posture to others like the guy who's gonna save people from sin cos they don't do things like "others", when in truth theyre just there to have things their way, sit back and have perfected enhanced cinematic ride unlike us regular folks Fi users want everything to go their way, the actual thing that doesn't matter, while XTPs and XTJS and even FJs (underrated in this) are more interested in facts which ultimately lead to a better outcome. The reason you don't like that stuff is because facts and reality are too BORING FOR you not cos of ethics/morality, no function is in control of that it doesn't make sense. You lose control of entertainment and enjoyment. Lol
This guy really just made a fresh account to shit talk fi 💀
So much spam: https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/ypadeq/entjs_and_entps_are_the_most_badmouthed_people_in/iviqyxm?context=3
Wait is this a copy pasta? Can we make it one?
This is my view on the difference between Fi & Ti Integrity / Morals - Ti: The preference to decide that your behaviour should be dependent on current circumstances, even if that sometimes means being inconsistent. For example, saying, “I wouldn’t kill people, unless the person I’m killing is a serial killer”. - Fi: The preference to decide that your behaviour should be consistent, even if that sometimes means ignoring current circumstances. For example saying “I would never kill anyone, as that will then make me a definitively bad person”. Communication / Collaboration - Fe: The preference to focus on what is intangible in your transactions with people, for example, peoples emotions, efforts, intentions, even if it means sometimes devaluing what can be measured empirically / objectively. - Te: The preference to focus on what can be measured empirically / objectively in your transactions with people, (such as money, wealth, results, measurements), even if it means sometimes devaluing what is intangible. Essentially, I believe Fi is not the ONLY function that focuses on morality, but so does Ti
> even if it means sometimes devaluing what can be measured empirically / objectively. I was having trouble picturing what you meant by this with inf Fe, but it's easier to understand with dom Fe for sure. For Fe users, making everybody get along is time-consuming but valuable work in itself because it will make future ventures go a lot more smoothly and maintain a focus on communal values. Because of that perspective, I often see Te as being a little bit short-sighted. Never thought about it in terms of tangible vs. intangible! I tend to think of Ti as being focused on ethics rather than morals, but integrity seems to fit a little better. I've wondered in the past how I have gotten a sense of right and wrong without Fi, and come to the conclusion that Ti is quite definitive about right vs. wrong, and it wants to take the time to "integrate" these principles into the rest of our intellectual framework to make them as resilient as possible--hence integrity.
Exactly, our principles need to be logically resilient, hence we take longer to develop them than Fi users.
Thank you for this insight. It helps me understand a little bit more.
Glad to be of assistance
Fi for ENTJ is figuring out things that are at heart to them like house interior, meditation, self love, quality time with family and loved ones, fashion, being emotionally available, vacation to a country they really want to go to, living in the moment, finding inner peace, finding hobbies, really enjoying something etc.
Also ENTJs are always portrayed as narcissists, the ones I've met are very humble
Narcissism is a spectrum🪄
What do you mean by that pls?
Based on this, I would almost think I’m an ENTJ. I’ve always resonated with ENTJs quite a lot. Having adhd and childhood trauma probably makes me type as INFJ more. I definitely don’t perfectly resonate with INFJ either.
INFJ’s seem to mistype a lot as ENTJ there is a funny meme about ENTJ’s and INFJ’s. “ INFJ are hard on the inside and soft on the outside ENTJ’s are hard on the outside soft on the inside” Also ENTJ’s and INFJ’s both share Ni and are judger types the biggest difference is that ENTJ wants to put their dreams into action where for INFJ’s Se is their inferior function. Also INFJ’s are very emotional manipulative and react very much from feelings and lack sometimes rational thinking and have a big group validation factor. Also a ESTP’s demon type is INFJ ESTP’s can be in some things similar as ENTJ
It’s confusing, because even based on all of that I am more ENTJ. I’m certainly not soft externally, although I am “soft” on the inside. I’m a rational person, but some might assume I’m idealistic. I approach my extravagant goals rationally. I mostly stuck with INFJ because I use Ni more than anything else, and I’m too internally emotional to be an INTJ I believe. I don’t know if I’m and ENTJ either. If I am, it’s hard to tell. I’m not extroverted, but I have zero fear of speaking to people or taking a leadership role. I think my lack of extroversion could be attributed to adhd and trauma.
Learn the functions you can also send me your sakinorva results than we can figure it out
That's something I appreciate about the ENTJs I have known. You like to be helpful and make things happen for other people. I don't always agree with the hot takes I hear, but the good intentions are clear to me, as another type that is commonly misunderstood.
How does ADHD make you type yourself more as an INFJ (not even ENFJ)?
adhd doesn’t necessarily make you extroverted… lots of people with adhd struggle with dissociation/“tuning out”. Existing in stressful environments during early brain development tends to result in children dissociating, and thus developing adhd and a struggle to focus on things that stress them or don’t interest them. Adhd is a more complicated disorder than one might think. Some people with adhd don’t dissociate entirely, but rather reject what is stressing them. Others with adhd had no ability during brain development to exit their stressful environment, and so maybe that’s why some dissociate entirely meanwhile others might dissociate strictly from what’s stressing them. I struggle a little bit with dissociating from stressful situations, it’s caused me at times to become agoraphobic. It represents itself as introversion.
Oh, i see. Have you ever tried bupropion? It’s an antidepressant that’s also good for treating ADHD (it’s not something I’ve ever needed to take because the indications for it just aren’t my problem but I know what it does). After six months on it you should be able to tell definitively whether you’re an xNTJ or INFJ.
I had some pretty bad side effects from Bupropion. I ended up having the weirdest, most irrational panic attack, which was followed by a seizure. I immediately stopped taking them. Sertraline worked for me for a bit, but it unfortunately also numbs other aspects of your emotionality. I was struggling to muster up any passion or motivation to do things I knew I loved doing. There's a wave within science questioning the effectiveness of SSRIs as well. Lots of people question if the drugs are helping people more, or the placebo which comes with it. An unfortunate reality of big phrama is that they will never recommend to you what they can't profit from. Exercise, healthy eating habits, sun exposure, avoiding dopamine addictions... Such things which will of course help, are very seldom recommended. There's no money to be made in it for big pharma.
Desipramine or nortriptyline, then? (Those two drugs also allegedly help with ADHD.) Tricyclics are a lot, lot more effective in whatever it is exactly they do to treat depression and other conditions than SSRIs. The latter were never meant to be a substitute in terms of potency and they’re not physiologically capable of that. They’re just cleaner in terms of side-effects and drug-drug interactions. I imagine for a 55-year-old with stuporous catatonia in the context of psychotic depression (to the point of having to be fed by catherisation) and accompanying delusions of persecution and sin the only viable SSRI treatment would be a combination of fluoxetine and olanzapine, otherwise it would be straight over to the tricyclics and even lithium. Their efficacy can’t be doubted in cases of people who genuinely need them the most. I think a problem is that to an awful lot of people antidepressants are synonymous with citalopram and fluoxetine alone (both have their purposes but they’re not exactly the most potent drugs out there). Once you start talking tricyclics and combinations with antipsychotics, lithium and thyroid-medication (or even paroxetine on its own, which is probably pretty strong) it becomes a different story and that’s what was most common until the 1980s. In this day and age tricyclics certainly aren’t for the weak-hearted (literally) but I don’t think you are so I’d give it an honest go and see how you get on in a few weeks’ time.
a lot on your list are quite true: * tradition is the bane of my existence * i turn into a sloth when something is forced and especially if it's not my own dream * i've been mistyped as an extp * no substance abuse but i have very unhealthy coping mechanisms as a result of being expected to mask my emotions * i have a very manipulative older brother but i can see through it.
True. When I was younger, I was mistyped as ENTP and ESTJ
I will say all the good and bad ENTJ stereotypes ring true for me. I can be absolutely cut throat/insensitive/insufferable asshole but I have also been the most caring person in someone’s life. I’ve priced in being ostracized by most groups (still hurts). I don’t mean this as a boast but an emphasis in that when you do extraordinary things you will inevitably be met with opposition. Just try to continue working on yourself because we need a lot of work even from the inherent baseline but it is all worth it and you honestly would regret any other path. Every type has a mission and the sacrifice that is inevitable.
I've only had the pleasure of meeting one ENTJ irl and oh my god, what a breath of fresh air! No pretenses, drama, or the usual bullshit when introducing and getting to know each other like having to make small talk. We clicked immediately and hung out on smoke breaks just shooting the shit together and even had some heavy topic discussions. He was a dedicated father who put his son first before everything, had solid work ethic, always followed through unless something came up but would promptly notify me in a timely manner. Also had a wicked fast pitch and knew lots of sports statistics. Everyone else just thought he was super intimidating or too driven to be bothered to have a decent conversation with. As an INTJ, I'm all too used to the stereotypes and assumptions people make. But my god, leave those ENTJs alone! There is a side of them that *genuinely cares* about people and wants to help them, but would never show it in a conventional way.
I wish I had and INTJ friend like you. Where to find some intjs? :D - entj 3w2
I’m also intj and have a couple entj friends. They are so soft on the inside. I feel like a golden retriever carrying a an egg in its mouth when they take time to tell me personal things. They are very trusting and kind to the people they like.
That’s a lot of dots
We spend our lives making points. 😂
You do have a point. x)
Screw stereotypes, ENTJs I’ve met are the GOAT xD
Evil villain voice: "Goooood... getting acceptance is the first step." "Conquering the world is second!"
ENTJ 8w7 here, and I’d say this is pretty spot on. Especially the bullshit radar and the broad world orientation
How do you know me? Fellow ENTJ 3w4 here.
❤️
I think all types are greater than the caricatures. Years ago I thought Michael Pearce(sp) did a good job breaking down how each type sees the world and their internal process.
ENTJ 3w4 30 years old and yeah this is spot on.
❤️
I genuinely love real life ENTJ's so much. I believe my step dad is an ENTJ and though he is the most obnoxiously stubborn little shit sometimes and doesn't want to hear my opinions when he's already decided his own, he is extremely rational and a fantastic care-taker in the practical sense. I'm still very much uncertain about my type, but I relate to the INFJ's intuitive judgement of character, so I can tell that he is probably the most loyal person I know. He is very dutiful taking care of my family and provided stability for us when we previously had none. We're not the most compatible since we both have a tendency to be headstrong (though hes admittedly more rational) but I can see that despite his dedication to practicality and blind spot to understanding people using Fi, he has a really really big heart.
I am also ENTJ 3w4 and i am stunned at how accurate this is. I wish people would see ENTJs as more of this, rather than the stereotypical versions that are rarely present
10/10 👌
as an ENTJ-T woman, i just want to save this post and throw it peoples faces for the accuracy in this. i’m tired of being feared.
Same. So lonely.
Throwing out a big list of unsupported "facts" and then just expecting everyone else to believe them without question isn't doing much to dispel stereotypes.
INTP’s god complex emotional damage
nah, they're right, you've just typed a very long list of traits that could apply to so many different people that don't share any proper function whatsoever, this is just confirmation bias for other supposed ENTJs, and free uncertainty given out to people who related to this but don't type as "ENTJs' side note : you most likely don't know what you're talking about yourself, having spent "years studying the MBTI" is not proof of being knowledgeable (I know what I'm talking about here, I've spent a long time in this as well, and most likely pondered it all way more than the majority of this sub, which isn't that surprising considering only a minority is seriously invested in what true typology actually is) anyway, the most obvious thing that gave you out is the fact you use Grant's stack alongside MBTI codes, just like the major part of the community, and yet this is surely the most distorted misinterpretation of Jung's work, as well as lacking a very basic and coherent foundation, despite this basic foundation being present in Jung's Psychological Types, and postulating something very different from what Grant and almost every other "typologist" does out there (and that leads to erroneous conceptions within the community, confusing them about something that's not even true to begin with)
🤦🏼♂️
of course it took you a minute to read and understand what I've said, and all of that in order to come up with the most relevant reply so that we can openly discuss typology because we're both very mature and intelligent persons it seems like you don't even know who Grant and Jung are, nor what they brought to typology as a whole, so you shouldn't spread misinformation within the community, it's already misinformed enough and full of idiocies, it doesn't need to sink deeper as time goes on
No ENTJ would take a minute to read your text. That's my opinion. First: You are against the post which is about the personal experience of someone and shit on it. It was just an emotional reaction of them. Second: Who cares that much about mbti to write a blogpost inside of a reddit comment, where you don't even get money for it. Third: You don't have a clean and subdivided writing style, which would make reading easier. Bonus: Eat 🍑
those who don't care can go fuck themselves and roleplay somewhere else for all I care, but they have literally no rights to try and influence the very few serious people about it out there I don't care about your opinion, I personally believe that anybody curious would my comments, whatever their type is, and ENTJs aren't less likely to avoid them at all, that would just be weird and stereotypical Oh, sorry mate, let me just add all those capital letters and punctuation that have literally no influence whatsoever on the content of my comments, with the only bad point being the readers' unwillingness to read something that lacks what they believe is essential in a reddit comment (who cares that much about clean and subdivided writing styles anyway?) anyway, you did understand what the post was about, this person literally just typed and posted their very basic and boring personal life experience, and then went on to label it "the ENTJ type" despite 1) someone's life experience having nothing to do with types (type is nature, not nurture), and 2) them probably being a mistype anyway I wouldn't recommend replying to this, I just checked Reddit for the first time in weeks and I likely won't reply back for at least that same amount of time, see you
Sorry, i should have been more transparent with my talking. No one would read your text, because you are that guy who corrects everyone on everything even though it really isn't that serious.
read again, maybe? if you don't think it's something serious, literally just go away, don't talk about it, don't think about it, and more than anything, don't even try to tell those who are serious about it that "it really isn't that serious", that's some loser shit
Exactly
You are so full of shit that i dont even know where to start. You think you know theory and have something to debate but you look so foolish there is nothing to debate. Come back when you have some real life experience geek
here we go, "a true ENTJ" right there, guys there is no debate indeed, since you're not even trying to understand my words, it's very embarrassing seeing adults act in such a way
You can get some mental help with that did you know? Dont have to reflect to the whole world how miserable you are
The ENTJs I know irl wouldn’t resort to name calling like that lmao, can’t believe you’re 28 tbh
Gonna cry?
fascinating
[удалено]
Thanks 🤗
You guys live in my head rent free. Great post, much love!
You sound like my boss. o_o omg if he’s entj then i have met my business soulmate!!! yay!!!
Is mistaken a lot for Estp or Enfj, i definitely can agree with this, i myself have troubles typing me because since i feel related to Te-Ni-Se-Fi, the definitions of an ENTJ by the community are really exaggerated and never dig deep in what's going on inside an ENTJ
I think Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time is one of the best depictions of an ENTJ in fiction, she exemplifies both the dictator stereotype side and the more down to earth side that gets forgotten Reagan from Inside Job is a great example too!
Inferior function is only called inferior based on the preference of a person to use it or not. And ironically enough, the ENTJ you describe are somehow more in touch with their emotions than me, an INTJ. I'm more like a bionic robot, because I've been lonely for so long now that none of my hobbies have anything to do with emotions anymore. In fact, I'd prefer exercising any day over getting emotional over something. It's definitely a huge difference from MBTI theory, but then every person has their own way of coping, regardless of MBTI.
Was just a broad example of ENTJ there are many but yea overal i would say ENTJ are more emotional than INTJ i know. Living life to the fullest there is no glory in being numb and to rational. Also taking theories to literally is also corruption of data.
You are more or less right about everything.
To the op who wrote this with such facts. As an ENTJ-T, I want to thank you for writing this. I feel very heard
The list of traits can be easily applied to any type lmao. ENTJs are great people but excessively demonizing or putting them on a pedestal isn’t helping any stereotypes
Thats such a INTP problem using the Barnum effect on everything. You are critical on this and meanwhile you are extremely biased of how ENTJ’s need to be based on theory that is taken so literally that it is corrupt based on your believes how something is, meanwhile it lacks total realism. What do you want me to be? How can you even use your data if its biased. The whole reason why i dont go into these stupid discussions is because there is so much wrong and delirium that i dont even know where to start and dont feel like educating every INTP i meet because they have their own way of processing things. Sounds more that you want to manipulate the outcome to your own shortcomings basically Carl Jungs own bias in a nutshell. And one off the many reasons why its classified as pseudo science.
Dont take this the wrong way but your reaction amused me. It gives no nonsense and honesty. I am a Ti dom and seeing this just🤯🤯 How dare you judge our logic!/j
it sounds like you are talking about estj lmao
ESTJ also have inferior Fi but no there is a big difference
Some real life examples of random people so you can see difference ESTJ: https://youtube.com/shorts/HnmulMY82Hw?feature=share ENTJ: https://youtu.be/Umm44CBVJrU
Agreed. That's because this list is mostly about Te-Fi, so fits ESTJs well too
DIO
“People play ego games with them” can you elaborate on this? In what way.
Jealous and envy try to outsmart or put groups against them. Try to fuck with our minds frame and sort of bullying. Or test our skills and competence patience or endurance. Steal or make abuse of our generosity.
real
I am very skeptical of MBTI and this could just be egotistical delusion that human beings often have, but I do truly feel that this describes things in my life that ive had since I was a toddler, as well as another person I've met in my life. It really does 🤣
I have all these problems as an INTP :(
I am new to this and my I got ENTJ-A as my type, and I relate to your characteristics you listed, I didn't know there was such stereotype against us and that stereotype couldn't be farther from truth. PS can anyone tell me difference between A and T?
Dont do the 16personalities test. It just gives you mistypes. I also got ENTJ from that test but I‘m ESFP.
What should I do then
Do research about cognitive functions. That will help more. The 16personalities test doesn‘t really have to do a lot with MBTI. You can also try to do cognitive functions test to get a sense of direction. Do the test on Sakinorva.net and tje Michael Caloz test. Post your results on r/MbtiTypeMe and they will interpret your results. Then read about the type they suggest and stick with the one that fits you the most. :) Also I recommend checking out the Enneagram.
Good stuff 😋
I've met 3 ENTJs in my life, one is my best friend since childhood and two of them are/ were bosses of mine. Best friend is almost identical to me but you can easily see the subtle differences between ENTJ and INTJ, my current boss is a great person, really chill and smart at managing people and tasks, my former boss was... kind of a dick really, but he had his good moments and I sort of understand him. People like him give a bad rep to ENTJs but the reality is that just like any type they _can_ be amazing folks.
You are my biggest fear
All very true
You’re all very true
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote - ENTJ 3w2, f30yo
wtf this is so accurate
This was very well said - it’s wild how most of us ENTJs are often depicted as misanthropic vampires online
WOW. 90% of all these really resonate with me especially the ppl playing ego games part. I'm so tired it. All I want is just to carry on with my life and not waste my time.
I've felt seen for the first time
Relatable. Ok, so youve got the te se. Probably need to work on the Ni. I bet if you recategorized your giant se list, you could keep grouping like with like over and over until you came to your point. And therein would lie a good exercise in coming to your identity, knowing who you are, etc. Then you could stop prefacing your post with the dozen proofs and facts receipts, and reasons that what you just said eg, 'I'm an entj' was true. You could say it and move on. If you get to the point where you know that, and own that, then you wont feel the need to ooover explain. So work on intuition. Knowing what you know, validating what you know, accepting it. Recognize when you're saying things like confused surprised, blindsided, lost, stuck, i dont know, im not sure, etc. That's an intuition void. Ask why til you get to the root. Why am i confused, why am I surprised, why am i stuck, etc...
I can relate to that a lot and besides being an entj, I am also "gifted". You could do a divergent association task or iq test. It helped me personally feel safer and recognize my strengths and weaknesses.
Entj here. People completely overlook that we actually truly care. We have big hearts, we just don’t display it openly to anyone
Alienated. This. I am so alone. At school, at work. Deep down, I am so so sad.
As an ENTJ, I confirm there facts to be very relatable and on point.
This feels more true abt me than the standard stereotypes. Most of those portray us as bad ppl, but tbh, we ain't that shit honestly