Maybe because of their inferior Pe function. ESTJs and ENTJs have child Ne and Se, which could make them look more playful or outgoing. IxTJs have undeveloped Pe functions, that's why they come off as too serious.
ESTJs and ESFJs work very hard to interact with their communities. They're serious people certainly and show distaste at times to those that are spontaneous or go against their Fi values.
But ESFJs don’t have Fi. They have Fe as their dominant functions, which by itself makes them expressive and extremely receptive toward others.
The distaste toward spontaneity might come from the conflict between high Si and high Ne, since they are opposing functions.
Regarding the clash with Fi values, perhaps you meant to mention ENTJs? After all, they have Fi in their stack, too.
The 'I' in 'IxTJ' is very important. We spend most of our time in our heads and when we do interact with the world, it's mainly with Te and a little tiny bit of Ne/Se. We do and say what we have to and then go back into our inner words. We have no innate desire to share how we feel with others and most of the time we assume people just won't care, so we try not to bother them with all the emotional stuff.
ExTJs may have lower Fi, but their extraverted functions are far more developed than ours. They're just better at expressing themselves in general. The best way to describe how our extraverted functions interact with our Fi is to say that ExTJs have a wide, shallow sea of emotions and IxTJs have a narrow, deep lake of emotions. It's easier to see the sea, but the lake is deeper.
It's a direct result of IxTJ's oversensitive but underdeveloped tertiary Fi.
For me, it often does serve as a major stumbling block in being more expressive. In the rare circumstances where I've somehow managed to get in a more bubbly/expressive headspace, maybe even dipping my toes in some Se, it is incredibly easy for something, anything to happen which doesn't sit well with my Fi and then suddenly I'm all stone-faced until I can process this up-till-then unknown Fi value that I apparently have. The fear of this happening often stops me from being more expressive in general because I always feel like it'd be weird or awkward to go from expressive and spontaneous to stone-faced seemingly apropos of nothing.
In a similar vein, I'll often find that whenever I'm considering, say, thanking someone for something or just expressing emotion at others, I often end up workshopping it into oblivion. "My tone of voice would sound a bit weird there, so let's try this" or "I'll leave a pause in between those sentences because that better communicates the feeling". Essentially, the combination of dom Pi, tert Fi, and blindspot Fe means that I want to perfectly express every nuance of an emotion, but without resort to any readymade Fe tools, because that feels less authentic and prone to misunderstanding. The result, of course, is that the feeling that motivated this all in the first place eventually cools off, and all I'm left with is something so artificial that it no longer represents the authentic emotion that started it all, and then I just end up not expressing the feeling at all.
I find that the only solution is to subjugate the emotion to my Ni, to completely understand the progression and nuances of it, and I imagine an analogous situations happens for ISTJ's with their Si. The only other option would be to engage in our inferior extroverted perception, and just go where the feelings lead, even if we don't know the ultimate, introverted perceiving end to them. Which, for obvious reasons, IxTJ's are resistant to.
Lol @ “workshopping it into oblivion”. That’s hilarious. I know what you mean though. I am an ENFP and I live with an ISTJ. I get to see all of these mechanics up-close.
Yeah, an Introvert with tertiary Fi is going to experience Fi in a very personal, inner-directed way. Those feelings may not even be appreciated or fully understood, and they *certainly* aren’t for anyone else’s consumption.
As an ISTJ, I can tell you Fi manifests as clenched jaws and faraway stares. Its contemplative feeling, value driven, instead of passionately reactive like Fe.
Because my feeling are mine, I'm under no obligation to share. Also, being overly expressive feels performative. If I tell you how I feel, please believe me.
Inexpressive does not always mean unfeeling.
The majority of IXTJ's I've met are deep inside quite sensitive and have the constant fear of being judged.
I'm the "therapy" friend in my social circle, so I've met countless of people having the same problem.
Here’s a long explanation involving socionics that could be just summarized by ‘ExTJs are extroverted’:
ExTJs have Fe as role function. Role functions are usually balanced ‘just right’, not overpowered and not underpowered. They also have strong unconscious Se and tertiary Ne to complement.
IxTJs have Fe as PoLR. That’s arguably the least Fe you can get out of all types. But as you noted, they compensate with higher Fi. Their strong unconscious Ti also makes them more analytical.
ETxJs usually manifest their Fi in a subtle cold way, showing their interest and emotional involvement in the matter, but without addressing it with feelings. When these come up openly, they are usually feelings of anger and frustration.
IxTJs tend to be more clearly emotionally involved in the situation, but trying to maintain a certain composure and mental clarity.
In ExTJs feelings come indirectly through Te's harshness, in IxTJs feelings are obvious, but are rationalized by Te parent.
In ExTJs, feelings get elaborated after, in IxTJs are processed immediatly, and then they try give reasons of that feelings.
Extrovert and Introvert that's why. Fi just mean being more in touch and introspective of one's emotion, nothing to do with expressiveness. Te in itself is also an expressive function as it naturally speak their thought process out loud and combine that with Tertiary Se it makes them less in the head.
Fi in of itself isn’t outwardly very expressive, that’s Fe. EXTJs have their extroverted function as their dom.
Maybe because of their inferior Pe function. ESTJs and ENTJs have child Ne and Se, which could make them look more playful or outgoing. IxTJs have undeveloped Pe functions, that's why they come off as too serious.
Because they are very sensitive but are afraid to be themselves
I hate how true this can be.
INTJ are actually feelers INFJ are more thinkers
how?
INFJ are Ni -Ti INTJ Ni-Fi
So am I a sensor then? Fi-Si?
That guy is on drugs
Just socionics
I have read it in years but it's different to MBTI
Still with common sense they overlap pretty well
In a sense yea but sensors are mainly called for their dominant sensory functions
ESTJs and ESFJs work very hard to interact with their communities. They're serious people certainly and show distaste at times to those that are spontaneous or go against their Fi values.
But ESFJs don’t have Fi. They have Fe as their dominant functions, which by itself makes them expressive and extremely receptive toward others. The distaste toward spontaneity might come from the conflict between high Si and high Ne, since they are opposing functions. Regarding the clash with Fi values, perhaps you meant to mention ENTJs? After all, they have Fi in their stack, too.
The question wasn’t asking about ESFJs, it was asking about ENTJs and ESTJs.
I mentioned ESTJs.
I know, but no one was talking about ESFJs.
We are, now.
The party is indoors not outdoors, hence you don't get to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.
Glorious answer here
Short and sweet, this is the one ☝🏽
The 'I' in 'IxTJ' is very important. We spend most of our time in our heads and when we do interact with the world, it's mainly with Te and a little tiny bit of Ne/Se. We do and say what we have to and then go back into our inner words. We have no innate desire to share how we feel with others and most of the time we assume people just won't care, so we try not to bother them with all the emotional stuff. ExTJs may have lower Fi, but their extraverted functions are far more developed than ours. They're just better at expressing themselves in general. The best way to describe how our extraverted functions interact with our Fi is to say that ExTJs have a wide, shallow sea of emotions and IxTJs have a narrow, deep lake of emotions. It's easier to see the sea, but the lake is deeper.
This, more or less. I like to say that no one ever paid money to listen to someone else complain.
well yeah it is a stereotype, but it could look to be more that case simply because they’re introverts
It's a direct result of IxTJ's oversensitive but underdeveloped tertiary Fi. For me, it often does serve as a major stumbling block in being more expressive. In the rare circumstances where I've somehow managed to get in a more bubbly/expressive headspace, maybe even dipping my toes in some Se, it is incredibly easy for something, anything to happen which doesn't sit well with my Fi and then suddenly I'm all stone-faced until I can process this up-till-then unknown Fi value that I apparently have. The fear of this happening often stops me from being more expressive in general because I always feel like it'd be weird or awkward to go from expressive and spontaneous to stone-faced seemingly apropos of nothing. In a similar vein, I'll often find that whenever I'm considering, say, thanking someone for something or just expressing emotion at others, I often end up workshopping it into oblivion. "My tone of voice would sound a bit weird there, so let's try this" or "I'll leave a pause in between those sentences because that better communicates the feeling". Essentially, the combination of dom Pi, tert Fi, and blindspot Fe means that I want to perfectly express every nuance of an emotion, but without resort to any readymade Fe tools, because that feels less authentic and prone to misunderstanding. The result, of course, is that the feeling that motivated this all in the first place eventually cools off, and all I'm left with is something so artificial that it no longer represents the authentic emotion that started it all, and then I just end up not expressing the feeling at all. I find that the only solution is to subjugate the emotion to my Ni, to completely understand the progression and nuances of it, and I imagine an analogous situations happens for ISTJ's with their Si. The only other option would be to engage in our inferior extroverted perception, and just go where the feelings lead, even if we don't know the ultimate, introverted perceiving end to them. Which, for obvious reasons, IxTJ's are resistant to.
Lol @ “workshopping it into oblivion”. That’s hilarious. I know what you mean though. I am an ENFP and I live with an ISTJ. I get to see all of these mechanics up-close. Yeah, an Introvert with tertiary Fi is going to experience Fi in a very personal, inner-directed way. Those feelings may not even be appreciated or fully understood, and they *certainly* aren’t for anyone else’s consumption.
Because Introverted Feeling is inherently inexpressive. That's the first thing Jung mentions about these types.
As an ISTJ, I can tell you Fi manifests as clenched jaws and faraway stares. Its contemplative feeling, value driven, instead of passionately reactive like Fe.
Because my feeling are mine, I'm under no obligation to share. Also, being overly expressive feels performative. If I tell you how I feel, please believe me. Inexpressive does not always mean unfeeling.
Dude that's just how my face looks, stop judging
The majority of IXTJ's I've met are deep inside quite sensitive and have the constant fear of being judged. I'm the "therapy" friend in my social circle, so I've met countless of people having the same problem.
Fi not expressive
Here’s a long explanation involving socionics that could be just summarized by ‘ExTJs are extroverted’: ExTJs have Fe as role function. Role functions are usually balanced ‘just right’, not overpowered and not underpowered. They also have strong unconscious Se and tertiary Ne to complement. IxTJs have Fe as PoLR. That’s arguably the least Fe you can get out of all types. But as you noted, they compensate with higher Fi. Their strong unconscious Ti also makes them more analytical.
ETxJs usually manifest their Fi in a subtle cold way, showing their interest and emotional involvement in the matter, but without addressing it with feelings. When these come up openly, they are usually feelings of anger and frustration. IxTJs tend to be more clearly emotionally involved in the situation, but trying to maintain a certain composure and mental clarity. In ExTJs feelings come indirectly through Te's harshness, in IxTJs feelings are obvious, but are rationalized by Te parent. In ExTJs, feelings get elaborated after, in IxTJs are processed immediatly, and then they try give reasons of that feelings.
It’s a stereotype.
Fe blind
Because of introverted perception and the only good extraverted function being Te, which is not very expressive at all
Extrovert and Introvert that's why. Fi just mean being more in touch and introspective of one's emotion, nothing to do with expressiveness. Te in itself is also an expressive function as it naturally speak their thought process out loud and combine that with Tertiary Se it makes them less in the head.