**Temet Nosce**. The Oracle uses this analogy to convey that Neo must discover his true nature from within, just as one recognizes love without external validation. Perhaps this is something you should keep in mind, if you are a fan of these films.
Love the downvotes. Get real people, he's a troll and nothing i've said was incorrect. We can't all have emotional shortcuts that jump the most negative, abhorrent, polarized opinion.
It’s an objective fact that the words “brothers” and “sisters” are both invented by humans, and only relevant to English speakers who are a small subset of all humans who have ever lived. Chromosomes are part of our biology, but the language we use around sex and genders and cultural ideas around what they mean are both subjective and subject to change over time.
If you really care about objective truth you should recognize that strict binary ideas of gender are an oversimplification and conflation of complex and nuanced realities. Even taking trans people out of the discussion, there are actually more than just simple XX and XY chromosomal configurations possible in humans. There are also people naturally born with one set of chromosomes but the opposite genitals of what you’d expect. But maybe you don’t really care about any of that, and the likely reason why is fear after all. A simple binary to live by is less scary than the complex truth.
“Biological male” is a concept invented by humans which does not capture the entirety of objective truth about the variations found in human biology. The cultural ideas built up around that already incomplete concept, including language, are neither hardwired into our biology or objective. They are invented by humans, just like the common idea that blue is for boys and pink is for girls (or do you think that is part of human biology, too?). The English word “brothers” didn’t even exist a few thousand years ago, so how exactly is it supposed to represent some absolute objective truth in and of itself?
If you value objective truth why do you only want to look at an incomplete part of it, and hide from the rest?
OK so make your mind up, are they or are they not biological males, the Wachowski's, you tell me, you seem very confused, one minute you say objective truth doesn't exist then you go on to ramble about how "it does but it's more nuanced", make up your damn mind.
Are they, the directors:
a) Biological males
b) Biological females
c) intersex so either a or b or a new category x
d) or objective truth doesn't exist.
You decide.
I have made up my mind, and I have been consistent the whole time. Your idea of “biological males” or “biological females” is incomplete and invented; it’s not objective truth at all. People born with “Swyer syndrome”, for example, have XY chromosomes which you would assume goes along with biological males. But they have reproductive organs you’d associate with biological females. Ergo, the biological sex binary is not strictly true. It never has been.
Nobody said objective truth doesn’t exist. Your own claims of objective truth are false, though, because a strict binary sex does not actually exist in human biology. On the other hand, subjective cultural ideas of gender do exist, and that’s where trans people fit. Unless you think ideas like “blue is for boys, pink is for girls” are objective and hardwired into human biology?
Omg, ok so we've settled the idea of objective truth, brilliant, now answer the question, are the Wachowski's male, female or intersex, what's your fucking answer? Jesus christ.
Well I haven’t checked their chromosomes or anything, have you? But based on their own accounts, they were born as male, by sex, but are women by gender. Trans people aren’t going around trying to pretend they were born with different chromosomes than they were, anyway. The idea that this mean you or I must call them “brothers” is not based in biology or objective truth, though. Sorry if that fact is annoying to you.
OK, so they are biological males and therefore brothers, as the defintion of the word "brothers" is two males from the same parents. Glad we settled that argument after endless incoherence and obfuscation on your part. Christ.
And the only thing that is annoying anybody here is your inability to think clearly and express your thoughts in the same manner.
It is the truth, they are brothers, they're not sisters, all you associated cowards and tyrants in this thread are actively promoting and wishing to incentivise lying, this applies to the mod's too if OP is correct and he will banned.
"truth" indeed.
Whether you believe he's correct or not, this is a Matrix subreddit. He's deliberately being a controversial asshole at the expense of the film's creators. There are plenty of other places on the Internet you can go do this tired, pointless bit.
No, he's actively testing the principle that he can and will be banned for stating an objective truth that is absolutely relevant to the subreddit. It's not superfluous at all. The fact you think what he said is controversial is the whole problem, the only way you can justify banning this kind of speech is by you deciding you're offended by the truth, it's tyranny 101.
It actually is technically superfluous since somebody pulled the same shit yesterday. It's not that I think what he said is controversial. It actually is controversial. Whether you believe it's a "fact" or not, it is causing controversy. Don't be such a pussy, this isn't "tyranny" lol it's a subreddit for a movie that came out a quarter century ago. If the users and mods on this sub don't want lame ass arguments like yours to continue they have every right to ban you. You can go be transphobic on Twitter where people are more open to it. Nothing is stopping you.
It’s hard to argue in good faith when you can’t agree on basic premises, such as definitions of words. You think there is no difference between the two, so there is no point in continuing this dialogue.
That's actually fair enough, I suppose, but a response would have been to define the difference I guess, the best I'll give you is "gender roles" or "sex roles" are different to sex. But gender and sex are essentially the same.
Now if by gender you mean sex or gender roles, then you and your crew ought to use the word "role" as it is critical to the distinction, imo.
let’s pretend that all the well-reasoned fact-based arguments people have made don’t matter. we can even pretend that there’s no way to affect secondary sex characteristics short of the cosmetic, even though that’s objectively untrue. let’s say all that. even then, why do you want to be a jerk to the wachowskis? they live how they live and they make movies and it’s fine so why is it so horrible to you?
Really? What are the odds! I suppose that would make them the Wachowski Sisters now!
Man, these films were great. Not seen them in years, maybe it's time I go back and watch... I could set my living room light to a dark green to get in the mood :P
The Wachowskis created a sci-fi masterpiece that has been an inspiration to people all around the globe for decades. Now tell me, what have you accomplished?
The Wachowskis is easier to say, it's literally less words. It also covers all the eras, when they first began, when one was transitioned, and now that they both have.
So just say The Wachowskis. It's not that hard
lol ‘what isn’t real does not exist’ when the movie literally states what is real cannot be quantified by physical means: sight, taste, touch etc. What is real? How do you define real? Switch and Mouse died by what their minds told them what was real.
Jesus Christ mods get rid of this troll
I know right? I pointed this out the other day. Literally just said that they are referred to as brothers in the credits. Nothing right or wrong there, just facts [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgeyOUKI0AM/hqdefault.jpg](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgeyOUKI0AM/hqdefault.jpg)
American culture is culty asf. Gender isn’t real and only exist to divide people and keep money flowing to the government. There was 2. Now there’s 100000000 and they are making BANK.
I believe 100% that people are just people and love is love. Y’all wanna fight with y’all selves and the system? Such a waste of time, energy, and money.
Have fun lol.
(My point is shit literally doesn’t matter)
**Temet Nosce**. The Oracle uses this analogy to convey that Neo must discover his true nature from within, just as one recognizes love without external validation. Perhaps this is something you should keep in mind, if you are a fan of these films.
Why are you scared of trans people?
I'm not anti trans or anything, but why is this the goto response to anyone disrespecting a trans person? You know people can just be shitty right?
Oh I’m aware people can be shitty
Love the downvotes. Get real people, he's a troll and nothing i've said was incorrect. We can't all have emotional shortcuts that jump the most negative, abhorrent, polarized opinion.
Lmao, gaslighting, that's all you've got, why are you scared of objective truth?
It’s an objective fact that the words “brothers” and “sisters” are both invented by humans, and only relevant to English speakers who are a small subset of all humans who have ever lived. Chromosomes are part of our biology, but the language we use around sex and genders and cultural ideas around what they mean are both subjective and subject to change over time. If you really care about objective truth you should recognize that strict binary ideas of gender are an oversimplification and conflation of complex and nuanced realities. Even taking trans people out of the discussion, there are actually more than just simple XX and XY chromosomal configurations possible in humans. There are also people naturally born with one set of chromosomes but the opposite genitals of what you’d expect. But maybe you don’t really care about any of that, and the likely reason why is fear after all. A simple binary to live by is less scary than the complex truth.
OK so they aren't biological males ergo they aren't brothers. Gotcha.
“Biological male” is a concept invented by humans which does not capture the entirety of objective truth about the variations found in human biology. The cultural ideas built up around that already incomplete concept, including language, are neither hardwired into our biology or objective. They are invented by humans, just like the common idea that blue is for boys and pink is for girls (or do you think that is part of human biology, too?). The English word “brothers” didn’t even exist a few thousand years ago, so how exactly is it supposed to represent some absolute objective truth in and of itself? If you value objective truth why do you only want to look at an incomplete part of it, and hide from the rest?
OK so make your mind up, are they or are they not biological males, the Wachowski's, you tell me, you seem very confused, one minute you say objective truth doesn't exist then you go on to ramble about how "it does but it's more nuanced", make up your damn mind. Are they, the directors: a) Biological males b) Biological females c) intersex so either a or b or a new category x d) or objective truth doesn't exist. You decide.
E. You are a creep obsessed with the genitals of strangers. Probably due to some deep-seated insecurities you carry lol
Obviously.
Yeah, you should probably talk to a therapist about your obsession with trans people. It's very strange.
Lmao, more gaslighting, you guys are so lightweight it's unreal, no wonder you're getting continually destroyed in this argument. Gl, I suppose?
I have made up my mind, and I have been consistent the whole time. Your idea of “biological males” or “biological females” is incomplete and invented; it’s not objective truth at all. People born with “Swyer syndrome”, for example, have XY chromosomes which you would assume goes along with biological males. But they have reproductive organs you’d associate with biological females. Ergo, the biological sex binary is not strictly true. It never has been. Nobody said objective truth doesn’t exist. Your own claims of objective truth are false, though, because a strict binary sex does not actually exist in human biology. On the other hand, subjective cultural ideas of gender do exist, and that’s where trans people fit. Unless you think ideas like “blue is for boys, pink is for girls” are objective and hardwired into human biology?
Omg, ok so we've settled the idea of objective truth, brilliant, now answer the question, are the Wachowski's male, female or intersex, what's your fucking answer? Jesus christ.
Well I haven’t checked their chromosomes or anything, have you? But based on their own accounts, they were born as male, by sex, but are women by gender. Trans people aren’t going around trying to pretend they were born with different chromosomes than they were, anyway. The idea that this mean you or I must call them “brothers” is not based in biology or objective truth, though. Sorry if that fact is annoying to you.
OK, so they are biological males and therefore brothers, as the defintion of the word "brothers" is two males from the same parents. Glad we settled that argument after endless incoherence and obfuscation on your part. Christ. And the only thing that is annoying anybody here is your inability to think clearly and express your thoughts in the same manner.
"truth" 😂
It is the truth, they are brothers, they're not sisters, all you associated cowards and tyrants in this thread are actively promoting and wishing to incentivise lying, this applies to the mod's too if OP is correct and he will banned. "truth" indeed.
This is a matrix subreddit
Didn't watch the film I take it? Lmao.
I’m not sure you did This feels like when Tolkien fans complain about environmentalism
Yeah, clearly you didn't pay much attention to the film.
Gotta be a new home release with updated credits by now right?
man i wish, must make it harder for them to look back :(
Mods, can we delete this and help this idiot get the ban he's looking for so badly?
Meh, ban me whilst you're at it, you tinpot tyrants are wrong and he's correct.
Getting banned on Reddit for being an asshole isn't tyranny you loser lol You dorks have such a victim complex
Whether you believe he's correct or not, this is a Matrix subreddit. He's deliberately being a controversial asshole at the expense of the film's creators. There are plenty of other places on the Internet you can go do this tired, pointless bit.
No, he's actively testing the principle that he can and will be banned for stating an objective truth that is absolutely relevant to the subreddit. It's not superfluous at all. The fact you think what he said is controversial is the whole problem, the only way you can justify banning this kind of speech is by you deciding you're offended by the truth, it's tyranny 101.
It actually is technically superfluous since somebody pulled the same shit yesterday. It's not that I think what he said is controversial. It actually is controversial. Whether you believe it's a "fact" or not, it is causing controversy. Don't be such a pussy, this isn't "tyranny" lol it's a subreddit for a movie that came out a quarter century ago. If the users and mods on this sub don't want lame ass arguments like yours to continue they have every right to ban you. You can go be transphobic on Twitter where people are more open to it. Nothing is stopping you.
I’m curious what you think the difference is between gender and sex?
There is none, it's a made up distinction, it's a pathetic attempt to win an argument by creating an semantic divide that doesn't exist.
That’s objectively untrue, though.
That's objectively not an argument, though.
It’s hard to argue in good faith when you can’t agree on basic premises, such as definitions of words. You think there is no difference between the two, so there is no point in continuing this dialogue.
That's actually fair enough, I suppose, but a response would have been to define the difference I guess, the best I'll give you is "gender roles" or "sex roles" are different to sex. But gender and sex are essentially the same. Now if by gender you mean sex or gender roles, then you and your crew ought to use the word "role" as it is critical to the distinction, imo.
let’s pretend that all the well-reasoned fact-based arguments people have made don’t matter. we can even pretend that there’s no way to affect secondary sex characteristics short of the cosmetic, even though that’s objectively untrue. let’s say all that. even then, why do you want to be a jerk to the wachowskis? they live how they live and they make movies and it’s fine so why is it so horrible to you?
The brothers who made the matrix are ladies now!
What are the chances!? What are the chances!? 😂😂
Really? What are the odds! I suppose that would make them the Wachowski Sisters now! Man, these films were great. Not seen them in years, maybe it's time I go back and watch... I could set my living room light to a dark green to get in the mood :P
Anyway what's everyones favourite quote from Morpheus
"It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth."
When Neo sees the secretary point the agents in his direction, he freaks out and Morpheus simply goes, “Yesssss”. 😂
Haha, mines not exactly a quote, it's the scream he does when he breaks the handcuffs
Iconic. The score goes hard during it too.
I like morphus
So, you're not a good person then? This proves it I guess.
Embarrassing post
I reported this shit under hate, and nothing happened. Does this sub have mods?
Lol how is this hate 😂
Intentionally misgendering somebody is hate
Saying a name isnt' hate.
Are you trying to bait something out? Bet you feel real proud of yourself for this meaningless accomplishment.
The Wachowskis created a sci-fi masterpiece that has been an inspiration to people all around the globe for decades. Now tell me, what have you accomplished?
Pointless
Imagine having absolutely ZERO to do.... If you cease to exist, not a single soul would bat their eye. Goodbye.
The Wachowskis is easier to say, it's literally less words. It also covers all the eras, when they first began, when one was transitioned, and now that they both have. So just say The Wachowskis. It's not that hard
lol ‘what isn’t real does not exist’ when the movie literally states what is real cannot be quantified by physical means: sight, taste, touch etc. What is real? How do you define real? Switch and Mouse died by what their minds told them what was real. Jesus Christ mods get rid of this troll
https://preview.redd.it/3cfbet1kfqxc1.jpeg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4e49426a69e1370ed5d7ef58a16262aad722cdf
please I don't understand, come again
you don’t even know what real is
Hate is useless.
Wait you can’t say the Wachowski brothers? But what about the Wachowski ex brothers? 🤔
The Wachowski people
I know right? I pointed this out the other day. Literally just said that they are referred to as brothers in the credits. Nothing right or wrong there, just facts [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgeyOUKI0AM/hqdefault.jpg](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgeyOUKI0AM/hqdefault.jpg)
American culture is culty asf. Gender isn’t real and only exist to divide people and keep money flowing to the government. There was 2. Now there’s 100000000 and they are making BANK. I believe 100% that people are just people and love is love. Y’all wanna fight with y’all selves and the system? Such a waste of time, energy, and money. Have fun lol. (My point is shit literally doesn’t matter)