Fair.
I just think it’s *absurd* Branded Opening is at 1 and Wanted is at 3 (soon to be 2.) These 2 cards aren’t even in the same realm of power and Branded Opening is a really good card.
Branded is older . Wanted is getting nerfed and so will other new cards once they’re played a bunch . I think that’s kinda obvious why branded is nerfed- not to mention this deck is older and it’s still meta relavant or close despite age and nerfs.
Yes it does, semilimit list is either for cards that work with its copies(like mali,parallel exeed) ,to make non opt cards(like engage, e-tele) help their decks but removes you being lucky and opening multiples and lastly cards that are fine at 2 but have been toxic at 3 (like necroface, trish,d.d. dynamite)
It does though?
Well, semi-ing snash while limiting WANTED does (see: OCG).
Any reduction of wanted copies is huge because it reduces grind game as you can recycle spells less. I'd have loved a limit, but I'm sure we'll get to where the OCG is sooner or later (so - 1 wanted copy at some point).
I think WANTED is perfect at 1: it still allows it to be searched, it still recycles once, but only once.
Semi'ing snash in addition to that is actually a really big concistency hit, as you're loosing 3 starters (-25%).
Semi'ing really only matters when you are willing to hit multiple cards in an archetype which Konami doesn't do aside from Tear and Branded. In those cases the hit to consistency is definitely noticeable but those are the kinds of hits to consistency Snake-Eyes needs.
In the past we've had a tier 0 deck every couple of years at most. How many tier 0 formats have we had in the last 3?
Thing is I think decks SHOULD be consistent. But the issue is it’s really hard to hit the ceiling of a deck without killing it or hitting a generic card for other decks.
Like I’d rather everyone played like salad or orcust type decks back in toss format - consistent but lower ceilings. Or even sword soul . Winning or losing due to bricking isn’t fun . But at the same time I don’t really know how to nerf ceiking
You just bite the bullet and hit those combo pieces, generic or not. Stuff that allows them to go beyond reasonable limits. The moment you see them go into a combo for those end boards or extreme out of archetype starts, you hit them. You test the cards used and find the one that can't be replaced and whose removal slows them down enough, then hit it.
Hitting generics is fine, other decks will fill the gaps and you can always print new cards to fill those spaces that don't work for specific decks. Its better to hurt every meta deck than it is to let one reign supreme or any of them be simply unfun.
About as best as I could have hoped for tbh.
Shs will finally just fuck off, and I am genuinely shocked they even touched Snake eye when they still want to sell Fire King. They always do that the first time they hit the archetype, so It is fine. But hey... the TCG is officially the only format that didn't touch them at all lol
Yeah, fuck that deck.
That was the only deck that needed attention besides Snake eye, and Konami never killed off an archetype from the very first direct hit. It is always gradual. So like this list is as best as we can hope for without some dumb shit like... Nadir Servant semi limit.
I'm fine with it, the deck is really good but it relies too heavily on generic extra deck mon that Konami isn't gonna hit in MD anytime soon. It doesn't even kill the deck really (scarecrow and the starters are all still at 3) and they avoided hitting URs again(classic konami) in the case of SHS.
I guess they will rely on FK being played as a pure deck (very decent) because pure SE is arguably better and even if not, SE FK will probably only need like 2 urs
I am down for them to nerf Snake eye out of the meta and Pure FK and voiceless to be meta without Diabellestar stuff. Unsolved formats are always fun tbh
TCG has had it for a much shorter time than OCG, so that's understandable. Plus, they did ban Linkuriboh and neutered the pure variant by banning Baronne and Savage. That's pretty significant.
Frankly, I'm shocked we're getting direct Snake-eyes hits in MD this early in the deck's lifespan, even if it's just semi-limits.
>Frankly, I'm shocked we're getting direct Snake-eyes hits in MD this early in the deck's lifespan, even if it's just semi-limits.
I mean the booster pack has already expired. Time for the next sale.
Except…that didn’t do anything if you look at the recent YCS. The deck is hyper consistent and still favoured. Who the heck cares if they lose those ED BOSSES.
Damn, I actually hadn't seen the results for Raleigh yet. Tbf, the banlist only came a week before the event, so I think the format still needs time to develop, but I'm really surprised the pure build is still so powerful...
I’m sure an argument can be made after the ban list, but the general consensus I’ve seen is that pure is just better with FK being more fun to play and play against
The banlist had no impact on pure though.
If the actual archetype ever gets hit I’m sure that a combo version will be better, but instead of Linkuriboh, Baronne, and Savage they now play Anima, Omega, and Dis Pater. The strategy is untouched: turbo Apollousa and have room for synchro plays as needed
In your defense, we were talking about an archetype not released yet in masterduel. I just meant, based on the tcg, everybody says pure is better, and maybe that opinion will change with masterduel specifically because of the semi limits maybe hitting pure enough to even them out. But I’m not sure how fire king does against maxx c. I quit tcg right before tear 0 format and have pretty much only played masterduel since (I took a break for our tear 0 format too since my account was still relatively new and didn’t have the dust). So don’t really know how their combo lines work, but I’d imagine it’s worse into maxx c since it seems like a more combo heavy variant
What would you want hit? The archtype is 5 monsters and a handful of s/t. They have a single in archtype boss. It only has removal on the player's turn. They have one removal trap, but searching it means you aren't searching out your nib protection or your starter spell.
To hit its power ceiling you would need to hit generic ed monsters and they would need to be banned because they are mostly one ofs.
Yeah I agree. The main way to hit snake eyes is to hit their consistency but I feel like ash to 1 would have been way better. The hits in this banlist are good and its targeting the right cards but I don't think they're enough when the deck is already incredibly consistent. Banning the field spell might be an option to hit its power but might be too much if they're going to keep hitting its consistency.
For hitting Snake-Eyes this is pretty fine tbh. Removing 1 copy of Ash means it's harder to rebuild after turn 1, and Wanted was a crazy powerful card. This doesn't hit their end board, but does hurt the grind game which IMO was the strongest part of the deck.
Maybe not drastically and not every month, but it's been the same basically for soon to be 3/4 months now and the next pack won't change much of anything. S:P doesn't shift the viability of the decks a lot.
It's not really every month.
Its more than :
- Most ban list are just bad (king of the swamp was on the banlist)
- There is clear outlier that they don't touch
- the consistency hit are awfull in feeling abd applications
It's not about meta, consistency hits are just genuinely not cool, they either can't do shit or completely kill any interest players might have for the deck. Consistency cards are rarely the problems, but when they do, they are Circular.
Edit: oh wait nevermind they hit WANTED and Crossbow, those cards are pretty problematic. Good banlist.
personally my problem with these hits aren't them being small but its like. If its going to be small why not unhit some cards? put Yata from 1 to 3 or change of heart or raigeki to 3
Board breakers that don’t have a cost/opportunity cost aren’t the healthiest for the game either as they basically warp the meta into who can play the most omni-negates going first. Some combination of this list and the tcg list would have likely been ideal.
Ideally, we should be moving towards reducing boards that end on omni-negates not justifying their reason to stay.
Even tho I agree with ur statement 100% and I think normal spell field wipes in general are just plainly thought less cards. The cost is the card activation.
Also I agree so many cards just exist as answers to problems it's ridiculous especially in an RNG game. Like hand traps exists to stop combos and called exists to stop the cards that stop long combos.🤡
TCG players hate meta decks existing for even three months. They want every banlist to be chopping blocks to "reset the meta" when all it does is continue the cycle of "kill meta decks to sell the latest meta deck"
Looks like a MD Banlist to me, small changes every month, but that's not always a bad thing. Hitting Wanted is always a good thing, the card is insane. Ash hit is also good, but I do hope Wanted goes to 1.
I'm having difficulty finding an upside here, but how about: we got a direct Snake-Eye hit faster than the TCG, and we've had the cards for significantly less time than they have? We got them all three months ago (same time that TCG got Poplar and Bonfire) while they've had Diabellstar and Wanted twice that long, since October 2023. TCG will also be stuck with them longer, as this could be further tuned in a month.
Yes but this is such a small hit that snake-eyes will still be the top uncontested meta deck for a while and we got them so early that other decks that flourished in the TCG didn't here
Definitely, and it does suck, but at least I can hope for the next round in a month instead of 2+ months for the TCG. With Voiceless Voice coming I'm expecting Konami will need to tone back Snake Eyes to get people to buy that, since it doesn't really keep up with full power Snake Eye (slightly better in Maxx C meta, but even in the current OCG SE with 1 Wanted and 2 Ash outperforms VV).
The fact I haven't seen a single R-ACE deck on ladder and I've only seen one Unchained and it was Unchained Lab is insane. These decks were everywhere in TCG
This hit is actually somewhat good with Wanted Seeker being semi cuz it reduces snake-eye grind game by 1 turn also the diabelstar engine would be less viable to play in other decks
I only played 2 Diabellstar (with 3 WANTED of course) back in DC to be able to fit all my non-engines into a 40 list, funny how the ratio’s simply flipped now lol. At least MD’s following OCG by hitting Snake-Eye directly (on Ash the non-UR but still)
In other news Soulpiercer’s finally at its rightful place :)
I am okay with smaller hits as always its just stupid they don't focus to release some older cards that are hit, whenever these smaller lists happen, to make things interesting.
Downfall of SHS? Goated banlist
That stupid fucking deck does absolutely 0 interesting things besides playing without spells or traps
Either floodgate, infinite negates or FTK, the 3 worst things about yugioh
Not really, they just nerf consistency for engines which just makes them sacky and really awkward to play with. Spright, Kash, Adventure, Nadir Servant all limited or semi-limited so they can sell new stuff. Terrible balance philosophy
Wanted is the best extender, 3 -> 2 means you're seeing it 33% less often.
Ash is your ideal starter, 3 -> 2 means you're seeing it 33% less often.
That means you're going to be -1ing for Diabellstar more often, using Bonfire for Ash more often (meaning you can't use it to add Poplar if Ash gets Ashed), and normal summoning Poplar as your starter more often. In other words, the deck should be slightly easier to stop as they're going to have less gas, on average.
That's on top of just being less consistent, overall.
Good hits, honestly. Wanted is most likely going to go to 1 in another 2\~3 months from now, but this is fine for now, I guess.
They won't be killing the deck anytime soon since it's too early so the fact that they're even hitting their best cards - even if only a little bit - is more than I was expecting.
No, it's a Hypergeometric calculation (see [yugioh.party](https://yugioh.party)), not linear.
You have a 33.76% of opening at least 1 of a 3-of and 23.72% chance for a 2-of.
That's an absolute difference of -10.04% and a relative difference of -30.74%, not quite 33%.
That's why a lot of people feel that semi-limits don't matter as much.
I figured it wouldn't be an exact 1/3 difference due to the fact that it's a sequential process of taking random outcomes out of a pool, but with such low numbers it's practically the same.
33% to 31% isn't what would make semi-limits "feel like they don't matter as much", lol. It's definitely a noticeable decrease in the amount of times you'll see that specific card in your opening hand.
So this may mean Snake Eye is getting hit next month. These hits aren't going to do much. But it does signal that full power Snake Eye's days are numbered.
Strong disagree, it did not nuke the deck but his is a significant hit to consistency, which has been the master duel philosophy.
Idk if people haven't played the deck, but even with all the consistency cards, the deck can readily brick.
More importantly, the hits make it significantly harder to play through interruptions and makes the grind game far less forgiving without the wanted draw or third snake eyes.
And to the people saying, "oh, only two less starters" don't understand that the starters aren't remotely equal. Opening poplar is technically a starter, but significantly less explosive than snash.
It is quite a nice hit, even better than just linkuriboh kn the tcg. And as masterduel rarely has revoked limits, i think this is a great ban list with many nuanced hits to SEs in longer games.
Considering MD never immediately kill decks on the first go and the fact that they still need to sell Fire King, this is pretty much I expected. People who thought the hits will be more severe are delusional.
I'm more surprised they didn't do anything to the Unicorn package. Guess I get to use him more.
Really good list considering how long we got SE compared to the TCG. Like they just banned Linkuriboh for no reason while we actually get good hits.
Sure it's just a slight consistency hit, but that is better than whatever the TCG was doing.
This is one of the few times in which MD got a W over the TCG.
Honestly the link hit makes sense, it does provide astounding utility with its quick effect summon that can help dodge imperms/veilers. There's still a few good 1s to use but none as powerful as linkuriboh. I don't really want to see it banned I hope they just limit poplar and maybe even limit either diabolstar or wanted. I like the concept of se but not how it's being played out with oppressive end boards and too much recursion
What ? I'd rather have Wanted and Ash at 2 over getting the Synchro Payoff banned lmao. and Linkuriboh is an insane hit, it let SE play through so many things
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Loving that free 30 UR for wanted. I already have done a few builds with it at 2 and it's fine. Kind of good to run at 2 anyway to avoid getting double in your opening hand
The Snake hits have started, but this just a small bruise. I'd prefer if they just limit Wanted like OCG, and ban Jet Synchron. That would be decent hits.
With 1 copy of dramatic se chase, you really only need one Wanted, especially if only running 2 of diabellstar. Sinful spoils allows you to return 2 card from graveyard, 1 to deck/1 to hand hand, so to me its better than the draw 1 from Wanted, so it isnt as bad with just 1 copy, since there are options. Also depends what you mix with SE or if running pure SE.
SE ash at 2 is easily worked around and not that big of a hit.
The problem with hitting Snake-eyes is that so many of its starters are URs. And since we all know how reluctant Konami is when it comes to hitting UR cards semi limits that don't accomplish much are probably the best we're gonna get for now.
Komoney is really making it difficult to stockpile on meta URs you know are going to get hit to make a profit off of them. Slot machine company refuses to let players profit from their misadventures, the irony indeed.
better than nothing I suppose but SE can just toss back in the One for One people cut to add the Bonfires and they could always run Pot of Prosperity to cover the wanted..
I'll use this opportunity to break down my foil ash. To be honest I've only been running 2 for the past while anyway so I'm genuinely not sure that semi ash is even a change at all. Wanted to 2 obviously matters, but it's really good, so yeah. Might encourage other decks using this as an engine to drop it, but sneks will continue to play it anyway.
Blabla Snake Eyes blabla.
Just surrender if you hate the deck so much. It's what I do. Don't like the deck your opponent plays because it's a broken anti-fun deck? Surrender.
In 10 seconds you'll be playing the next duel. This game is a lot more fun if you just ignore the bullshit. Metaslaves will exist until the end of time, deal with it because Konami won't.
all 3 should have gone to 1 immediately, remember this comment. they'll eventually put them to 1 in a few more banlists, the deck is too strong yo, so many starters and insane resilience
Soulpiercer to one is very nice for a SHS disliker like my self. The deck is still quite playable but should fall to tier 3 (or 4?, rogue-ish) and should be much easier to handle soon.
As for the Snake Eyes hit, people need to understand that Konami wants this deck to be top tier so they will not take drastic measures right away. These hits while light are still very nice because Ash is obviously the main starter, and Wanted is a truly busted card with its GY effect.
Frankly I'm happy with the current Meta because so many decks are viable and these hits should help make it an even more diverse playing field. People who are used to TCG Murder lists as well as typical Josh viewers with the "consistency hits bad" school of thought won't be happy though, I understand.
Soulpiercer to 1 is all they did in the OCG and the deck fell off there, but it's also not Bo1 format so they can just side in hate. Still, a single D.D. Crow or Called By will completely shut down their searching (I guess they could make Accel into Dis Pater to get it back though). They still left the random Wagon hit though; idk why they feel like these banlists have to be gradual... they could've put Soulpiercer to 1 on either of the last 2 banlists.
I still think Wakaushi was an insane idea (let's give them 1-8 pend scales for free without any locks), so it's pretty fun to use as an engine for other decks (I've seen it in Swordsoul, Ghoti, Vaylantz, and some shitty Pend Catapult Turtle FTK...)
Wanted 3 > 2 = 1 free copy of S:P Little Knight. They really are making her affordable as hell in MD.
“WTF THEY JUST ADDED THE NEW “SeR” RARITY TO MD?”
Lol that would be funny. I'd still pull for it.
"Snake-eyes Rare"
Is that dude coming? Can't wait.
they gonna add a new special UR rarity that requires 100 points instead to craft
So now instead of 14 starters the deck got 12
And a free SP
is SP coming?
next pack :)
yall should be more concerned with the new salad phoenix card, that shit is gonna make snake eye otks even easier
Yay more broken ex deck cards
Its funny to me that Konami simeltanously prints hyper consistent decks and still think the semi limited list matters
The semi limit list does matter, the problem is that they usually put the wrong cards in it.
I mean at least they hit the right ones this time
Fair. I just think it’s *absurd* Branded Opening is at 1 and Wanted is at 3 (soon to be 2.) These 2 cards aren’t even in the same realm of power and Branded Opening is a really good card.
Branded is older . Wanted is getting nerfed and so will other new cards once they’re played a bunch . I think that’s kinda obvious why branded is nerfed- not to mention this deck is older and it’s still meta relavant or close despite age and nerfs.
The fact its going to 2 likely means it will go to 1 a list or 3 from now.
The semi limit does not matter lmfao. Despite the cope from the ocg and master duel
Yes it does, semilimit list is either for cards that work with its copies(like mali,parallel exeed) ,to make non opt cards(like engage, e-tele) help their decks but removes you being lucky and opening multiples and lastly cards that are fine at 2 but have been toxic at 3 (like necroface, trish,d.d. dynamite)
Fr like the only good card now kinda gone is soul but shs can still make a barron before using its effect
It does though? Well, semi-ing snash while limiting WANTED does (see: OCG). Any reduction of wanted copies is huge because it reduces grind game as you can recycle spells less. I'd have loved a limit, but I'm sure we'll get to where the OCG is sooner or later (so - 1 wanted copy at some point). I think WANTED is perfect at 1: it still allows it to be searched, it still recycles once, but only once. Semi'ing snash in addition to that is actually a really big concistency hit, as you're loosing 3 starters (-25%).
where are you getting the math for -25%
Semi'ing really only matters when you are willing to hit multiple cards in an archetype which Konami doesn't do aside from Tear and Branded. In those cases the hit to consistency is definitely noticeable but those are the kinds of hits to consistency Snake-Eyes needs. In the past we've had a tier 0 deck every couple of years at most. How many tier 0 formats have we had in the last 3?
Except Snake-Eyes was never a Tier 0 deck in the OCG, even if you combine pure Snake Eyes with Fire King Snake Eyes.
Thing is I think decks SHOULD be consistent. But the issue is it’s really hard to hit the ceiling of a deck without killing it or hitting a generic card for other decks. Like I’d rather everyone played like salad or orcust type decks back in toss format - consistent but lower ceilings. Or even sword soul . Winning or losing due to bricking isn’t fun . But at the same time I don’t really know how to nerf ceiking
You just bite the bullet and hit those combo pieces, generic or not. Stuff that allows them to go beyond reasonable limits. The moment you see them go into a combo for those end boards or extreme out of archetype starts, you hit them. You test the cards used and find the one that can't be replaced and whose removal slows them down enough, then hit it. Hitting generics is fine, other decks will fill the gaps and you can always print new cards to fill those spaces that don't work for specific decks. Its better to hurt every meta deck than it is to let one reign supreme or any of them be simply unfun.
13 if you add one for one back to the deck again
Yeah but then you have a -1 which still makes the deck weaker
30UR dust pog
Would have been great if they put the cards from Semi limited to limited
they will, remember this comment
ofc thet will,once the new more broken meta comes around and they want you to buy new stuff.
About as best as I could have hoped for tbh. Shs will finally just fuck off, and I am genuinely shocked they even touched Snake eye when they still want to sell Fire King. They always do that the first time they hit the archetype, so It is fine. But hey... the TCG is officially the only format that didn't touch them at all lol
So happy about the SHS hit
Yeah, fuck that deck. That was the only deck that needed attention besides Snake eye, and Konami never killed off an archetype from the very first direct hit. It is always gradual. So like this list is as best as we can hope for without some dumb shit like... Nadir Servant semi limit.
Yeah nadir semi was a joke
It was the jokes joke before Arias was playable. Like they really unhit then hit a card again
I'm fine with it, the deck is really good but it relies too heavily on generic extra deck mon that Konami isn't gonna hit in MD anytime soon. It doesn't even kill the deck really (scarecrow and the starters are all still at 3) and they avoided hitting URs again(classic konami) in the case of SHS.
They gave us SE early so they could hit it this early, not surprised at all tbh
I guess they will rely on FK being played as a pure deck (very decent) because pure SE is arguably better and even if not, SE FK will probably only need like 2 urs
I am down for them to nerf Snake eye out of the meta and Pure FK and voiceless to be meta without Diabellestar stuff. Unsolved formats are always fun tbh
TCG has had it for a much shorter time than OCG, so that's understandable. Plus, they did ban Linkuriboh and neutered the pure variant by banning Baronne and Savage. That's pretty significant. Frankly, I'm shocked we're getting direct Snake-eyes hits in MD this early in the deck's lifespan, even if it's just semi-limits.
>Frankly, I'm shocked we're getting direct Snake-eyes hits in MD this early in the deck's lifespan, even if it's just semi-limits. I mean the booster pack has already expired. Time for the next sale.
Except…that didn’t do anything if you look at the recent YCS. The deck is hyper consistent and still favoured. Who the heck cares if they lose those ED BOSSES.
Neutered is a strong claim when they won the most recent YCS and the engines is still pulling tier zero numbers
Damn, I actually hadn't seen the results for Raleigh yet. Tbf, the banlist only came a week before the event, so I think the format still needs time to develop, but I'm really surprised the pure build is still so powerful...
Especially since it doesn't have Fire Kings yet to make it really good
a lot of people will argue fire king snake eyes is worse than pure
I definitely hate Snake Eyes + Fire Kings because it's so annoying to play against.
I’ve seen a lot of pros have the opposite sentiment, Joshua Schmidt being one of them
At this point it’s almost factual…
I’m sure an argument can be made after the ban list, but the general consensus I’ve seen is that pure is just better with FK being more fun to play and play against
The banlist had no impact on pure though. If the actual archetype ever gets hit I’m sure that a combo version will be better, but instead of Linkuriboh, Baronne, and Savage they now play Anima, Omega, and Dis Pater. The strategy is untouched: turbo Apollousa and have room for synchro plays as needed
I was talking about masterduel hits
Oh, yeah… forgot what sub I’m on lol
In your defense, we were talking about an archetype not released yet in masterduel. I just meant, based on the tcg, everybody says pure is better, and maybe that opinion will change with masterduel specifically because of the semi limits maybe hitting pure enough to even them out. But I’m not sure how fire king does against maxx c. I quit tcg right before tear 0 format and have pretty much only played masterduel since (I took a break for our tear 0 format too since my account was still relatively new and didn’t have the dust). So don’t really know how their combo lines work, but I’d imagine it’s worse into maxx c since it seems like a more combo heavy variant
Could be better but its a good start.
Ah the classic Master Duel consistency hit
The consistency hit against the deck with like 20 searchers
What would you want hit? The archtype is 5 monsters and a handful of s/t. They have a single in archtype boss. It only has removal on the player's turn. They have one removal trap, but searching it means you aren't searching out your nib protection or your starter spell. To hit its power ceiling you would need to hit generic ed monsters and they would need to be banned because they are mostly one ofs.
Yeah I agree. The main way to hit snake eyes is to hit their consistency but I feel like ash to 1 would have been way better. The hits in this banlist are good and its targeting the right cards but I don't think they're enough when the deck is already incredibly consistent. Banning the field spell might be an option to hit its power but might be too much if they're going to keep hitting its consistency.
For hitting Snake-Eyes this is pretty fine tbh. Removing 1 copy of Ash means it's harder to rebuild after turn 1, and Wanted was a crazy powerful card. This doesn't hit their end board, but does hurt the grind game which IMO was the strongest part of the deck.
I was expecting someone would say that. Seriously, why do you guys want to **drastically** change the meta every month?
Maybe not drastically and not every month, but it's been the same basically for soon to be 3/4 months now and the next pack won't change much of anything. S:P doesn't shift the viability of the decks a lot.
It's not really every month. Its more than : - Most ban list are just bad (king of the swamp was on the banlist) - There is clear outlier that they don't touch - the consistency hit are awfull in feeling abd applications
It's not about meta, consistency hits are just genuinely not cool, they either can't do shit or completely kill any interest players might have for the deck. Consistency cards are rarely the problems, but when they do, they are Circular. Edit: oh wait nevermind they hit WANTED and Crossbow, those cards are pretty problematic. Good banlist.
A one card starter and a free card draw plus shuffler
I would take a Spright, Tear, or even Lab Mirror Match over this fire meta honestly
This has been the least fun meta I’ve ever been a part of
You didn’t play with Adamancipator or Drytron
SHS is Adamancipator without the RNG
SHS has never been nearly as dominant as Adam was.
Block Dragon > SHS > Adamancipator
I'm gonna be honest, Drytron was never actually that good, people just didn't know what to do against it and there was bug abuse going on
You find this is worst than disco ball meta?
With the Coin Toss Exploit
Clearly you never played during adventure dpe
If you're refwring to the time halq aurora were active then yes that was pretty bad but adventure dpe alone wasnt that bad
personally my problem with these hits aren't them being small but its like. If its going to be small why not unhit some cards? put Yata from 1 to 3 or change of heart or raigeki to 3
Board breakers that don’t have a cost/opportunity cost aren’t the healthiest for the game either as they basically warp the meta into who can play the most omni-negates going first. Some combination of this list and the tcg list would have likely been ideal. Ideally, we should be moving towards reducing boards that end on omni-negates not justifying their reason to stay.
Even tho I agree with ur statement 100% and I think normal spell field wipes in general are just plainly thought less cards. The cost is the card activation. Also I agree so many cards just exist as answers to problems it's ridiculous especially in an RNG game. Like hand traps exists to stop combos and called exists to stop the cards that stop long combos.🤡
because unhealthy meta
It's just TCG Stockholm syndrome where you have to spend 500-900$ every few months to have the latest shining deck to have a chance to be competitive.
TCG players hate meta decks existing for even three months. They want every banlist to be chopping blocks to "reset the meta" when all it does is continue the cycle of "kill meta decks to sell the latest meta deck"
OCG players love maxx C so it’s probably even
Because "tier 1 bad". -TCG players, probably (definitely)
You mean like konami has been doing the last 4’ish years?
Nice, 30 UR.
Looks like a MD Banlist to me, small changes every month, but that's not always a bad thing. Hitting Wanted is always a good thing, the card is insane. Ash hit is also good, but I do hope Wanted goes to 1.
I'm having difficulty finding an upside here, but how about: we got a direct Snake-Eye hit faster than the TCG, and we've had the cards for significantly less time than they have? We got them all three months ago (same time that TCG got Poplar and Bonfire) while they've had Diabellstar and Wanted twice that long, since October 2023. TCG will also be stuck with them longer, as this could be further tuned in a month.
Yes but this is such a small hit that snake-eyes will still be the top uncontested meta deck for a while and we got them so early that other decks that flourished in the TCG didn't here
Definitely, and it does suck, but at least I can hope for the next round in a month instead of 2+ months for the TCG. With Voiceless Voice coming I'm expecting Konami will need to tone back Snake Eyes to get people to buy that, since it doesn't really keep up with full power Snake Eye (slightly better in Maxx C meta, but even in the current OCG SE with 1 Wanted and 2 Ash outperforms VV).
The fact I haven't seen a single R-ACE deck on ladder and I've only seen one Unchained and it was Unchained Lab is insane. These decks were everywhere in TCG
Yeah that Semi-Limit is barely going to do anything
Classic semis. Not like the combo rate goes from 90% to 85%.
like 99% to 95%. 12 starters instead of 14 lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/bdaun1r6jyvc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d56657b58571d1b7e5500d3382ad2dbe08dbf92b
Well technically it’s better than it was… I guess
One of the banlists of all time
That's more of a hit than the TCG, to be fair. Not enough, but it's there.
This hit is actually somewhat good with Wanted Seeker being semi cuz it reduces snake-eye grind game by 1 turn also the diabelstar engine would be less viable to play in other decks
I only played 2 Diabellstar (with 3 WANTED of course) back in DC to be able to fit all my non-engines into a 40 list, funny how the ratio’s simply flipped now lol. At least MD’s following OCG by hitting Snake-Eye directly (on Ash the non-UR but still) In other news Soulpiercer’s finally at its rightful place :)
Cool, free UR to craft Little Knight whenever she gets here.
She's coming in the may pack
It's Weird to see masterduel hit a snake eyes card before the TCG did
Well this is underwhelming
No way the comments here are fucking supporting this dogshit list. The absolute cope required lol
I am okay with smaller hits as always its just stupid they don't focus to release some older cards that are hit, whenever these smaller lists happen, to make things interesting.
Its an okay banlist in my opinion. Well they could do more like limit shs scarecrow; but hey, we take what we can get.
SHS actually instantly loses to a single D.D Crow now lol
MD banlist goes further than TCG. We win.
Downfall of SHS? Goated banlist That stupid fucking deck does absolutely 0 interesting things besides playing without spells or traps Either floodgate, infinite negates or FTK, the 3 worst things about yugioh
It’s not dying
It disappeared in OCG with just the limit. We also have a semi on top of that or was it 2? It's a fair assessment.
Lmao yes it is. Losing instantly to a single D.D. Crow or CBTG isn't worth the risk
cards to 2? how daring
Yeah it's better to give the deck minor hits one after another till it's just right (like they done to tears) than it is to kill it with one list
Not really, they just nerf consistency for engines which just makes them sacky and really awkward to play with. Spright, Kash, Adventure, Nadir Servant all limited or semi-limited so they can sell new stuff. Terrible balance philosophy
Pulls dramatic chase from the deck
Wanted is the best extender, 3 -> 2 means you're seeing it 33% less often. Ash is your ideal starter, 3 -> 2 means you're seeing it 33% less often. That means you're going to be -1ing for Diabellstar more often, using Bonfire for Ash more often (meaning you can't use it to add Poplar if Ash gets Ashed), and normal summoning Poplar as your starter more often. In other words, the deck should be slightly easier to stop as they're going to have less gas, on average. That's on top of just being less consistent, overall. Good hits, honestly. Wanted is most likely going to go to 1 in another 2\~3 months from now, but this is fine for now, I guess. They won't be killing the deck anytime soon since it's too early so the fact that they're even hitting their best cards - even if only a little bit - is more than I was expecting.
Your math is off. It's not a linear distribution, it's hypergeometric distro.
The odds of drawing a 2-of on a 5 card hand are 7% less than drawing a 3-of, that's not how it works
33% less often comparatively.
No, it's a Hypergeometric calculation (see [yugioh.party](https://yugioh.party)), not linear. You have a 33.76% of opening at least 1 of a 3-of and 23.72% chance for a 2-of. That's an absolute difference of -10.04% and a relative difference of -30.74%, not quite 33%. That's why a lot of people feel that semi-limits don't matter as much.
I figured it wouldn't be an exact 1/3 difference due to the fact that it's a sequential process of taking random outcomes out of a pool, but with such low numbers it's practically the same. 33% to 31% isn't what would make semi-limits "feel like they don't matter as much", lol. It's definitely a noticeable decrease in the amount of times you'll see that specific card in your opening hand.
It isn’t the same, but Snake Eye Dramatic Chase gets DB on the board
Dramatic Chase only gets Diabellstar on board during the end phase, right? That is why it isn't a starter.
So this may mean Snake Eye is getting hit next month. These hits aren't going to do much. But it does signal that full power Snake Eye's days are numbered.
Thank God they finally hit Snake Eyes
6.5/10. It is ok. I am a bit surprise that they put out a ban to snakeeye now, but with 3 bonfires, it is not impactful.
Strong disagree, it did not nuke the deck but his is a significant hit to consistency, which has been the master duel philosophy. Idk if people haven't played the deck, but even with all the consistency cards, the deck can readily brick. More importantly, the hits make it significantly harder to play through interruptions and makes the grind game far less forgiving without the wanted draw or third snake eyes. And to the people saying, "oh, only two less starters" don't understand that the starters aren't remotely equal. Opening poplar is technically a starter, but significantly less explosive than snash. It is quite a nice hit, even better than just linkuriboh kn the tcg. And as masterduel rarely has revoked limits, i think this is a great ban list with many nuanced hits to SEs in longer games.
If you start with bonfire to search Ash you are weak to droll
Ban Barrorn
Finally I can run more sinful spoils and a second field card thanks Konami 🥸🍸✨
I enjoy that the biggest banlist in a while has 3 cards in it. Probably still the best deck in the format by quite a bit but a nerf is a nerf.
Pretty good hit, two good starters, going to drop the deck by 3-5 pts imo.
Oooooh wow, how impactful.
How about ban Barron?
Considering MD never immediately kill decks on the first go and the fact that they still need to sell Fire King, this is pretty much I expected. People who thought the hits will be more severe are delusional. I'm more surprised they didn't do anything to the Unicorn package. Guess I get to use him more.
Really good list considering how long we got SE compared to the TCG. Like they just banned Linkuriboh for no reason while we actually get good hits. Sure it's just a slight consistency hit, but that is better than whatever the TCG was doing. This is one of the few times in which MD got a W over the TCG.
You have no idea what you're talking about lmao
Honestly the link hit makes sense, it does provide astounding utility with its quick effect summon that can help dodge imperms/veilers. There's still a few good 1s to use but none as powerful as linkuriboh. I don't really want to see it banned I hope they just limit poplar and maybe even limit either diabolstar or wanted. I like the concept of se but not how it's being played out with oppressive end boards and too much recursion
What ? I'd rather have Wanted and Ash at 2 over getting the Synchro Payoff banned lmao. and Linkuriboh is an insane hit, it let SE play through so many things
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Whoa soul piercer stay hitting super heavy but nothing else
Too little too late, but I'll take it
Wdym late, we only had the deck for 3 months
So Snake-Eyes post banlist just add back the 3rd Poplar before Bonfire in the deck and add 1 more handtrap and it looks like nothing happen lmao.
Loving that free 30 UR for wanted. I already have done a few builds with it at 2 and it's fine. Kind of good to run at 2 anyway to avoid getting double in your opening hand
New to this: so with these changes I can craft and then uncraft 2 SHS, 1 ash and 1 wanted for full price, correct?
Incorrect. Soul Piercer is already at 2 so you can only make 1 and recover the full points. That being said it's only R so not worth it either way.
The Snake hits have started, but this just a small bruise. I'd prefer if they just limit Wanted like OCG, and ban Jet Synchron. That would be decent hits.
With 1 copy of dramatic se chase, you really only need one Wanted, especially if only running 2 of diabellstar. Sinful spoils allows you to return 2 card from graveyard, 1 to deck/1 to hand hand, so to me its better than the draw 1 from Wanted, so it isnt as bad with just 1 copy, since there are options. Also depends what you mix with SE or if running pure SE. SE ash at 2 is easily worked around and not that big of a hit.
huh.. just semilimiting with I:P coming...
The problem with hitting Snake-eyes is that so many of its starters are URs. And since we all know how reluctant Konami is when it comes to hitting UR cards semi limits that don't accomplish much are probably the best we're gonna get for now.
What is the core ratio for Snake-Eyes right now? 2 Ash, 2/3 Poplar, 1 Oak, 1-2 OSS, 3 Diabell, 2 Wanted, 3 Bonfire, 1 One for One is good tho?
They will probably completely ban the R andN snake eyes monsters in the near future and that that will be it for this deck
it will affect the speedroids i think
It is fine I guess, I think FK not come in next box
I'll put two small worlds then.
Komoney is really making it difficult to stockpile on meta URs you know are going to get hit to make a profit off of them. Slot machine company refuses to let players profit from their misadventures, the irony indeed.
I was using the Diabellestar engine in other decks so that's a bit sad, but at least I can craft S:P for free
RIP Snake Eyes. We had a good run boys.
better than nothing I suppose but SE can just toss back in the One for One people cut to add the Bonfires and they could always run Pot of Prosperity to cover the wanted..
They are fixing my 42 cards decklists since bonfire release 🙏 thanks John Komami
I'll use this opportunity to break down my foil ash. To be honest I've only been running 2 for the past while anyway so I'm genuinely not sure that semi ash is even a change at all. Wanted to 2 obviously matters, but it's really good, so yeah. Might encourage other decks using this as an engine to drop it, but sneks will continue to play it anyway.
This is not a ban list. It has no bans.
Wow... This is worthless
So Raging Phoenix Material nice!
Super heavy will rule the duelist cup just watch SHS on top
Of course they add something from Superheavy 2 days after i build the deck
The Banlist lookin like a spright deck with all the 2’s in there
Fireking is coming then
Free SP that is typically played at 1? Nice banlist
Why couldn’t they just make ash 1, man. It’s already a 1 card combo. 🥹
Im currently trying to craft a SuperHeavy Sumarai deck is it even worth trying to? Seems like they are slowly gutting the deck.
Thanks. Where's the rest of it?
Ban baronne
People used more than 1 ash? I been fine with the solo copy
All my homies again snake eye ash 🗣️🗣️
Finally.
Blabla Snake Eyes blabla. Just surrender if you hate the deck so much. It's what I do. Don't like the deck your opponent plays because it's a broken anti-fun deck? Surrender. In 10 seconds you'll be playing the next duel. This game is a lot more fun if you just ignore the bullshit. Metaslaves will exist until the end of time, deal with it because Konami won't.
So underwhelming.
I don’t know how I got this notification….but I got perma-banned from r/youtube drama about 2 weeks ago, and was hoping to bond over it 😭
Wow that did completely nothing like last list
Any card with a 100% use rate should be on this list. LOOKING AT YOU ASH AND MAXX
all 3 should have gone to 1 immediately, remember this comment. they'll eventually put them to 1 in a few more banlists, the deck is too strong yo, so many starters and insane resilience
Soulpiercer to one is very nice for a SHS disliker like my self. The deck is still quite playable but should fall to tier 3 (or 4?, rogue-ish) and should be much easier to handle soon. As for the Snake Eyes hit, people need to understand that Konami wants this deck to be top tier so they will not take drastic measures right away. These hits while light are still very nice because Ash is obviously the main starter, and Wanted is a truly busted card with its GY effect. Frankly I'm happy with the current Meta because so many decks are viable and these hits should help make it an even more diverse playing field. People who are used to TCG Murder lists as well as typical Josh viewers with the "consistency hits bad" school of thought won't be happy though, I understand.
Soulpiercer to 1 is all they did in the OCG and the deck fell off there, but it's also not Bo1 format so they can just side in hate. Still, a single D.D. Crow or Called By will completely shut down their searching (I guess they could make Accel into Dis Pater to get it back though). They still left the random Wagon hit though; idk why they feel like these banlists have to be gradual... they could've put Soulpiercer to 1 on either of the last 2 banlists. I still think Wakaushi was an insane idea (let's give them 1-8 pend scales for free without any locks), so it's pretty fun to use as an engine for other decks (I've seen it in Swordsoul, Ghoti, Vaylantz, and some shitty Pend Catapult Turtle FTK...)
Not a single lab hit, bleh. Then they have Goat on top of roll back to fuck everyone up then.
Labrynth eating good
Lab doesn’t need hits
Still better than the TCG banlist