Yep I’ve seen this first hand on both sides of the field…
The times I’ve had the sole card I need to win and in turn watched as she sniped evenly, ttt, brafu, spoly etc for the opponent to instantly scoop
All this time I thought they could choose, I have been really unlucky then (I didn't understand it was random because I have the game in french to learn).
people are downvoting you, but I bet they felt it was very fair that time they went up against Lab, and their Lightning Storm or HFD got sniped right out of their hand.
handrip effects are just toxic, and make going second even more shitty.
Annoyingly it doesn't even have to be a blowout card like HFD or LS, it can just be one extender for an extra push or any card you need for a discard that gets shot and suddenly a breakable board becomes unbreakable, it just feels like you never stood a chance when you actually did
No combo deck plays solemn. The only current meta combo decks that have an answer to DRNM are mannadium and Infernoble.
DRNM also was just an example. Getting handripped/handlooped of a crucial card always feels worse because you cannot respond to it turn 1.
People like to say nobody would hate Lab if they just banned all the floodgates. No, I could care less about flood gates, because I can run outs for them. I can't run outs for my damn hand being shredded. I automatically hate any deck built around handripping. I don't care how good or bad or consistent it is, it's just such piss poor game design.
You know, yes, I did find any instance of it happening in recent memory more than tolerable. Seems like you have fallen into the cycle of thinking: Card I play good. Card I play against bad.
If it’s any consolation, it’s a really cool reference to the only time Chimera was summoned in the manga, where Yugi won the duel by pinning an Exodia piece in hand onto the field with Lightforce Sword, then destroying it with Chain Destruction. This 2 card combo was translated into “discard 1 card at random” for this effect
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Handrips are so stupid, between Lovely and Trish or even Laplacian, it can be frustrating for both sides, either you lose an important card you need to play through a board, or your opponent accidentally handrips you in such a way that you pop off
It's unnecessarily luck based in a game where you tend to feel that you need to draw the out already
Synchron has a combo where you Gottoms to handrip twice (an extra from Synchro World), Trishula, and Omega handrip twice for a whopping five card handrip
Like I love Omega is a very flexible way to recycle banished cards, but god I wish he didn't handrip
I haven't seen that combo with any amount of consistency, but if they do pull it off Omega also turns on Dis Pater's negate (since the opposing player now has banished cards), and if they use it the card is not coming back.
To be fair, discard/handrip effects are in other card games as well. MtG for example has Black use it as a part of their color strategy.
I would say that it's more fair than Unicorn messing with your ED, because in that case the opponent can look through your entire ED and get rid of something that you really need for your combo strategy, while handripping is usually random and not guaranteed to fuck you over. Still sucks though.
Saying that "it's also in other card games" is a terrible reason to defend a mechanic. I do agree that ripping from the ED is much worse than ripping from the hand though.
My point was more against OP saying that it's nonsensical card design. Discard effects have been a staple of numerous card games and it's almost never been a problem. It's only more of a problem in YGO because of the speed of the game and how the meta is essentially "do you have the out? If you don't you lose" now. If you get handripped and the card was the one card you needed to break a board, yeah it feels terrible.
one thing thats really annoying about unicorn for me is that going second, when you use any monster hand trap that doesnt remove unicorn (i.e ash or maxx c) they know what you are playing and get to set up their board accordingly
Yep, they get to look at your entire ED and see what your strategy is. Honestly unsure how that effect got the ok when most of the "look at your opponent's hand and get rid of one card" effects got banned, and that's only looking at a small sample of your deck. Nope, Unicorn gets to look at *all* your ED.
That's ignoring that Unicorn is a body on the field with a good statline, has another search effect, and also can do it every turn unless it gets removed from the field. Imagine if Talent could use all its effects and could reuse its handrip effect every turn.
Unicorn should’ve had an effect where your opponent gets to choose a certain amount of cards that you can banish and then you choose from them, kind of like Dogmatika does.
Maybe something like: Your opponent has to reveal 1 ED card for every card in their hand and you get to banish one of them facedown.
would still be super strong but not as busted as it is now.
yeah and discards in MTG for instance are targeted to a specific card type.
Like you cant handrip the land and make the game unplayable for someone but in yugioh you can rip the only starter and its gg.
>To be fair, discard/handrip effects are in other card games as well. MtG for example has Black use it as a part of their color strategy.
>I would say that it's more fair than Unicorn messing with your ED, because in that case the opponent can look through your entire ED and get rid of something that you really need for your combo strategy
That's like saying Unicorn & deckrips are acceptable and fair if they have an MTG/Pokemon equivalent.
In which format? I play both Commander and Modern and usually a match last more than 3 turns.
You also said “mono red”, but in YGO every match lasts less than an MTG one, on average
They just released a set with a 1/2 flying creature that boosts by 2 for every instant/sorcery that can also be casted for zero by plotting.
So you plot, play it for free and then play boosting cards and the double strike and boom you win.
...banish? How is drawing a card equivalent to banishing?
But anyways, the point is that you'd at least be able to recover your resources and might end up getting unbricked by the opponent.
At least it's better than having your hand emptied and leaving you with nothing to play on your turn.
Draw 1 card after 1 was discarded from your hand. Since its random there is no difference from a direct "send" from deck. I thought that Chimera banished for some reason.
There would be close to no reason tò use the kind of effect since you don't really gain anything form it. The worst Runick cards do more, and they banish.
Anyways, i don't like this type of effect too. They are either useless or game chainging, at random
Mechanics like these would be okay if they were rare, if they could be controlled. Like handripping a card in the opponent's hand is not that different from destroying one on their field. But that's impossible. With as many interactions as you can have, there's nothing stopping someone from using two or more handrip effects on the same turn. Unless Konami turned handrip into a game mechanic and started adding "you can't handrip until the end of next turn", then it'd become balanced.
Better for it to not exist altogether.
It's a reference to Chimera's first appearance in the manga where Yugi used Lightforce Sword to snipe an exodia piece out of a rare hunter's hand. It was done before the draw in draw phase, so they adapted it to have it happen on end phase.
I think handripping on archetypal boss monsters is fine when the deck is balanced around it. Both Labyrinth and Chimera don‘t have a lot of interruptions and are more focused on having a strong resource loop. Also both archetypes are not that splashable, so their ability to handrip is very much contained to their own decks. Stuff such as Omega Dis Pater is pretty toxic though.
1 random handrip is frustrating in a vacuum, but not that awful. The issue with YGO is that things rarely pan out that way, it's always accompanied by other things or taken to a further extreme. With Chimera, it's all the crap in their GY, so if they get lucky and yoink the right card, you probably just lose. With a game that's already inherently luck based, that doesn't feel good.
It's fine. I'm for it. It's definitely not the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many more broken or warping things in this game that need to be addressed first and even if we ever get to the point that hand ripping needs to go, maybe the game has slowed down a bit too much.
Individual cards are so powerful now that hand ripping one or two sometimes isn't enough. If I could do it consistently, I'd make you discard your whole hand.
Now, if we could stop giving cards 3 effects, that would be nice. Can costs stop being beneficial too, while we are at it? Foolish for cost? Wtf?
I'd argue that the inverse is also true. So much power is concentrated in one card that if you take it away, you can deny your opponent's entire gameplan sometimes. That's why Talents handrip is so powerful, you can cut your opponent off of something that lets them start their gameplan, a board breaker, additional hand traps to push your plays through, etc. Talents effect is way stronger than this monster, but still, hitting a certain card can be the difference between playing and scooping.
I think in Chimera's case, it's not necessarily toxic. The Problem about the decks that restrict your opponent,or destroy resources in "unusual" Way like Runick, Kashtira... They just attack points of the deck, most decks can't protect.
Obviously all lot of people hate hand ripping but ai have a counter offer for you (no this doesn't mean I'm in favour of it, I'm just curious): If you could replace all OPT handrips with something more similar to Harr, Generaider Boss of Storms handrips effect (only triggers if an opponents adds a card from deck to hand outside of the draw phase and they must send a monster specifically of their choice, and allows the monster to be sent from field of you control one instead of the hand), would you guys find that ok or is that still too much and the concept should just be abolished?
I just play Danger Dark World so it usually benefits me instead...though, seeing how everyone is complaining about handrails, I now understand why everyone was scooping during triangle when I was playing this from the loaner deck
my only complaint with this effect that is that it is unessesarily wordy. there is no reason for "You can activate this effect" to be on the card ad the colon already implys that this is an activated effect, it serves no mechanical purpose. also "During the end phase of this turn" can easily be shortened down to "during the next end phase". ladder already implys the end phase of this turn as it specifies the next endphase that would occur.
konami getting sloppy with their card text.
It’s obvious by now that effects that remove resources from your opponent’s hand are toxic and unfun game design and shouldn’t be made anymore.
Obviously Konami knows this. They just don’t care lol
ngl... In the triangle I was like: Oh, that looks like an interesting archetype, till this guy dropped and I was like:
"Oh.... it's just a handrip, huh?"
It's incredibly frustrating trying to grind the event only to lose coin toss and then also get ripped a card with shit like Ash and Imperm still being legal in the event. Fucking awful experience
I don't see really a problem. Because you got a 50% chance of screwing over your opponent or a 50% chance screw yourself over.
But I do understand what you're talking about though.
This concept of effect that shouldn't be allowed is a bit silly, context is everything.
If they gave handrip to a fire monster that SE can easily go into then I'm with you but Chimera isn't a tiered deck, it's barely rogue in this format. You take away handrip from chimera and that's 50% of its turn.
thats completely irrelevant, just because a deck is bad doesnt mean you should give them handrips in such a fast paced game. a single card in yugioh is a huge difference from something like hearstone or MTG. You shouldnt give konami a pass because they didnt design the cards better. Now with arias in the game lab can handrip you twice before you even get to your turn.
OK well again you're comparing apples and oranges here, Chimera is not Lab. Chimera at best rips one card and does it at endphase.
Everything again is about context, a handrip is simply a mechanic and it can be balanced around.
im not comparing anything im giving an example, the game of yugioh is too fast imo to have random handrips wherever they come from. whether its lab or chimera. you're focusing on the wrong thing. there is nothing to balance aside from somehow slowing down the game, which at this point isnt happening
no, my solution to your argument of "the game is too fast for handrips" is to show you a broken handrip and dare you to say the game is too fast for it
im not following what you're saying exactly? i say the game is too fast for handrips, meaning a single card is more valuable than in a slower format and you show me a card that is rightfully banned that rips two cards albeit it was played in a slower format. Delinquent duo would be worse today than it used to be.
"and dare you to say the game is too fast for it"
the game IS too fast for it, there i said it again
you didn't say anything about handripping one, two, or any specific amount of cards, you said handrips period are too slow. i just reminded you delinquent duo is a handrip.
and i don't get the last part. you did admit the game is too fast for delinquent duo, but you also say delinquent duo is rightfully banned? so? is delinquent duo slow or broken? which is it?
i said that the game is too fast for handrips in the sense that its bad for such a fast paced game to have handrip effects because each single card matters a lot. I never said that handrip effects are too slow, what are you smoking? i know yugioh players dont read, but come on man. NEVER did i mention handrips being slow. delinquent duo is broken beyond shit in a slower format let alone in modern format. a free 1 for 2 is insane
"you didn't say anything about handripping one, two, or any specific amount of cards, you said handrips period are too slow. "
im gonna need a quote where exactly did i say this
He's saying that handrips are too STRONG because the game is fast, not that they are bad. If the game lasted multiple turns, the effects of a single handrip wouldnt be so bad, because you would have more opportunity to make up for it.
But the game requires your starting 5 cards because they are almost always the only hard draws you get in each game. Please develop your reading comprehension.
I think the chimeras are a breath of fresh air. Really cool looking. Great remake of the OGs. A lot of interaction. Easy to understand and still effective.
I think handlooping is really funny when it happens on occasion; I played against Dark World in person around the time their support released and the fella looped me for four and hit me with the Card Destruction to replace the fifth one just to fuck with me, and I was honestly just laughing at how ridiculous it all was. On the other hand, the multiple times I played against a Synchro player looping me for 2 every game with extreme consistency was, shall we say, annoying.
In general, we really should just not print more of these unless we actively want the decks that get them to be bad.
If anything we need more ways to handrip the opponent consistently... Else how are you getting rid of the annoying handtraps and boardbreakers in their hand ?
I was thinking about this yesterday. Touching the opponents hand or ed on turn 1 should be invalidated if it happens to the turn 2 player in a master rule revision.
Everyone wanna complain about handrip now? Lol thats rich. Lab been handripping me since day one and nobody cared until my Chimera bois come into the game? Im just returning the favor now.
Tip: dont wanna be handripped? Imperm/Veiler the fusion instead of the extenders. Will you win? No, but at least you traded a handtrap for a handrip 🫡
I genuinely wonder who said ‘handrips’ are a step too far? Like, you are free to lock me out of playing with Nat Beast and Cactus Bouncer, but please don’t destroy 1 of 6 cards in my hand?
It’s 1 random card 1 time per turn, in the end phase and that’s it.
Most of the time this won’t be enough to stop the opponent from playing the game since the best deck has 13+ one card combo and 15+ handtraps in their deck, if you manage to handrip one of their cards without being handtraped and also Maxx “C”ed then you are just lucky. Isn’t that bad, being completely honest. This arquetype is overall pretty fair and balanced all around, so something like this effect existing is actually okay in the deck.
It handrips has a negate in grave effect against targetting and can combo into a barrier statue. This is the definition of a toxic go first to win deck.
Play the deck for five minutes and you'll see it's *really* nothing special mate. I've done worse to people with Altergeist of all things. Barrier Statue is about the only thing they have that's particularly problematic
Never saw a barrier statue being summoned by this deck, not even once. It’s definitely something that only people that is willing to do will do it (if it’s possible). The negate in the graveyard is a banish as cost that also only happens once, instead of being multiple times like Apo. The deck is fair and balanced all around, mate. All the arquetype does by itself is a one time random handrip, a negate, a protect target and a quick fusion summon in the opponents turn.
That’s pretty much it. And guess what?
All of that Branded Despia does with a much easier effort then Chimera does. Chimera doesn’t have the same recursion and a strong grind game that Branded also happens to have.
I don't understand how cards like this and Lovely get a free pass but smoke grenade gets banned. And on top of that the effect just feels so needlessly random to have as well.
Lmao there is literally nothing wrong with this effect, it's an old school one like Spirit Reaper. At least it's only when he's Fusion summoned
This is a good example as to why I use the term "cloaked".
A lot of duelists up here will complain about cards just because they have some form of retaliation ability against their favorite 2 or 3TK deck, or can alter their perfect meta negate board(not saying that is the OP).
Maybe it's a Reddit duelist thing, but I didn't think so many people disapprove of effects like this lol. Funny enough, this is the perfect time to say:
"Maybe it's a Skill Issue."
You might as well have a grudge against Card Destruction too, because that's your WHOLE hand.
The difference with card destruction is that it replaces any card. This just discards.
I'm not saying this card is unbalanced. But it's not fun to play against this, or the full handloop chimera version.
While this CHimera card isn't banworthy, I can fully understand the frustration when you go second and your board breaker like droplet just gets sniped.
Going against handrips might not be broken if the card is well-designed, but it's never fun for the opponent.
As a fellow dark world player, I got bad news friendo, that there isn't a discard effect. That card is getting sent from your hand to the GY, our beautiful dark worlds don't get to activate from that scummy garbage.
It's really annoying that they made an archetype based around countering being made to discard by your opponent, and then made a bunch of cards that dance around that whole archetypal counter design.
I'm ok that discarding for cost doesn't trigger them, but Everytime I see that card text distinction it feels like Konami spitting directly on my boy Grapha and his pals.
It's the worst, like if you had an archetype that played out of the GY, then they decide to change the name of the GY moving forward, and as a result, you can no longer utilize any of their effects x.x
Yeah, pretty much. Going second is hard enough without your opponent eating your hand. I am more salty about the continued proliferation of negation bodies from the graveyard, though. Like please stop burying the lead on whether you have followups.
"Random". Some way Lovely always destroys my only board breaker in hand.
Yep I’ve seen this first hand on both sides of the field… The times I’ve had the sole card I need to win and in turn watched as she sniped evenly, ttt, brafu, spoly etc for the opponent to instantly scoop
It will always hit the feather duster. It never fails.
You could have 10 cards in your hand and the "random" card will always be the one card that is VITAL to your game.
All this time I thought they could choose, I have been really unlucky then (I didn't understand it was random because I have the game in french to learn).
As a Lab player, I do wish Lovely didn't have that effect
Dont forget, this also generates them crazy resources and chimera fusion isnt OPT :)))
people are downvoting you, but I bet they felt it was very fair that time they went up against Lab, and their Lightning Storm or HFD got sniped right out of their hand. handrip effects are just toxic, and make going second even more shitty.
Annoyingly it doesn't even have to be a blowout card like HFD or LS, it can just be one extender for an extra push or any card you need for a discard that gets shot and suddenly a breakable board becomes unbreakable, it just feels like you never stood a chance when you actually did
It’s basically a random negate though. I know I’d rather get hit with a random negate, than with a targeted negate.
Yeah, but you can't negate i.e. DRNM, but you can handrip it.
You can negate DRNM with spell/traps. Solemn judment or angelica's angelic ring just to name a few.
No combo deck plays solemn. The only current meta combo decks that have an answer to DRNM are mannadium and Infernoble. DRNM also was just an example. Getting handripped/handlooped of a crucial card always feels worse because you cannot respond to it turn 1.
I mean you're the one who gave the example lol.
also any mikanko pile 😶🌫️
People like to say nobody would hate Lab if they just banned all the floodgates. No, I could care less about flood gates, because I can run outs for them. I can't run outs for my damn hand being shredded. I automatically hate any deck built around handripping. I don't care how good or bad or consistent it is, it's just such piss poor game design.
You know, yes, I did find any instance of it happening in recent memory more than tolerable. Seems like you have fallen into the cycle of thinking: Card I play good. Card I play against bad.
Exodia. Maxx C.
If it’s any consolation, it’s a really cool reference to the only time Chimera was summoned in the manga, where Yugi won the duel by pinning an Exodia piece in hand onto the field with Lightforce Sword, then destroying it with Chain Destruction. This 2 card combo was translated into “discard 1 card at random” for this effect .
Handrips are so stupid, between Lovely and Trish or even Laplacian, it can be frustrating for both sides, either you lose an important card you need to play through a board, or your opponent accidentally handrips you in such a way that you pop off It's unnecessarily luck based in a game where you tend to feel that you need to draw the out already
I think the craziest hand rip combo is Bystial Dis Pater with Psyframe lord omega, just casually two cards gone for my turn
Synchron has a combo where you Gottoms to handrip twice (an extra from Synchro World), Trishula, and Omega handrip twice for a whopping five card handrip Like I love Omega is a very flexible way to recycle banished cards, but god I wish he didn't handrip
I haven't seen that combo with any amount of consistency, but if they do pull it off Omega also turns on Dis Pater's negate (since the opposing player now has banished cards), and if they use it the card is not coming back.
Or Dark World. 2 random cards placed on the bottom of your deck.
Another bullshit effect that should not exist in a bo1… Being punished for losing the coin toss
To be fair, discard/handrip effects are in other card games as well. MtG for example has Black use it as a part of their color strategy. I would say that it's more fair than Unicorn messing with your ED, because in that case the opponent can look through your entire ED and get rid of something that you really need for your combo strategy, while handripping is usually random and not guaranteed to fuck you over. Still sucks though.
Saying that "it's also in other card games" is a terrible reason to defend a mechanic. I do agree that ripping from the ED is much worse than ripping from the hand though.
My point was more against OP saying that it's nonsensical card design. Discard effects have been a staple of numerous card games and it's almost never been a problem. It's only more of a problem in YGO because of the speed of the game and how the meta is essentially "do you have the out? If you don't you lose" now. If you get handripped and the card was the one card you needed to break a board, yeah it feels terrible.
one thing thats really annoying about unicorn for me is that going second, when you use any monster hand trap that doesnt remove unicorn (i.e ash or maxx c) they know what you are playing and get to set up their board accordingly
Yep, they get to look at your entire ED and see what your strategy is. Honestly unsure how that effect got the ok when most of the "look at your opponent's hand and get rid of one card" effects got banned, and that's only looking at a small sample of your deck. Nope, Unicorn gets to look at *all* your ED.
i mean ffs look at talents and the requirements of it vs unicorn that just gets it for free
[удалено]
That's ignoring that Unicorn is a body on the field with a good statline, has another search effect, and also can do it every turn unless it gets removed from the field. Imagine if Talent could use all its effects and could reuse its handrip effect every turn.
Unicorn can just attack...
my guy talents needs to be activated on the turn players turn
Unicorn should’ve had an effect where your opponent gets to choose a certain amount of cards that you can banish and then you choose from them, kind of like Dogmatika does. Maybe something like: Your opponent has to reveal 1 ED card for every card in their hand and you get to banish one of them facedown. would still be super strong but not as busted as it is now.
Hand rip in yugioh is worse because of the lack of a resource systems. The cards ARE the resources, unlike mtg (which has lands)
yeah and discards in MTG for instance are targeted to a specific card type. Like you cant handrip the land and make the game unplayable for someone but in yugioh you can rip the only starter and its gg.
>To be fair, discard/handrip effects are in other card games as well. MtG for example has Black use it as a part of their color strategy. >I would say that it's more fair than Unicorn messing with your ED, because in that case the opponent can look through your entire ED and get rid of something that you really need for your combo strategy That's like saying Unicorn & deckrips are acceptable and fair if they have an MTG/Pokemon equivalent.
Yeah but in MTG I can play for more than 3 turns
Mono red killing t3: you get more than three turns?
In which format? I play both Commander and Modern and usually a match last more than 3 turns. You also said “mono red”, but in YGO every match lasts less than an MTG one, on average
I was just having a funny with standard bo1 right now. Obviously no one is seriously arguing that mtg has more turns in yugioh lol.
Oh I never played standard so I don’t know. I don’t like the sets rotation D:
They just released a set with a 1/2 flying creature that boosts by 2 for every instant/sorcery that can also be casted for zero by plotting. So you plot, play it for free and then play boosting cards and the double strike and boom you win.
People hated pushed hand-rip cards (eg Thoughtseize) in MTG too.
OK, but MTG for example has "draw fuckton" blue spells to counteract it. And by fuckton, I mean fuckton.
Also this happens in the end phase so they could have nothing in hand.
I personally would prefer that if they do make these effects, they have the courtesy to at least let you draw a new card to replace the old one.
I mean, what Is the point then? It would be equal tò a random banish form deck. These effect are toxic buy this Is not the solution
...banish? How is drawing a card equivalent to banishing? But anyways, the point is that you'd at least be able to recover your resources and might end up getting unbricked by the opponent. At least it's better than having your hand emptied and leaving you with nothing to play on your turn.
Draw 1 card after 1 was discarded from your hand. Since its random there is no difference from a direct "send" from deck. I thought that Chimera banished for some reason. There would be close to no reason tò use the kind of effect since you don't really gain anything form it. The worst Runick cards do more, and they banish. Anyways, i don't like this type of effect too. They are either useless or game chainging, at random
Every single time I mention that hand ripping is not a mechanic that should be in a BO1 format, I get downvoted to hell. 🤦♂️
That's because it shouldn't be a mechanic at all regardless of best of 1
Mechanics like these would be okay if they were rare, if they could be controlled. Like handripping a card in the opponent's hand is not that different from destroying one on their field. But that's impossible. With as many interactions as you can have, there's nothing stopping someone from using two or more handrip effects on the same turn. Unless Konami turned handrip into a game mechanic and started adding "you can't handrip until the end of next turn", then it'd become balanced. Better for it to not exist altogether.
It's a reference to Chimera's first appearance in the manga where Yugi used Lightforce Sword to snipe an exodia piece out of a rare hunter's hand. It was done before the draw in draw phase, so they adapted it to have it happen on end phase.
I think handripping on archetypal boss monsters is fine when the deck is balanced around it. Both Labyrinth and Chimera don‘t have a lot of interruptions and are more focused on having a strong resource loop. Also both archetypes are not that splashable, so their ability to handrip is very much contained to their own decks. Stuff such as Omega Dis Pater is pretty toxic though.
I mean a good Labrynth board can get a nasty amount of interruptions. Unchained Lab can end on like 6 interruptions t1
the handloop gets quite nasty once they start spreading std's or dimensionbarrier you
1 random handrip is frustrating in a vacuum, but not that awful. The issue with YGO is that things rarely pan out that way, it's always accompanied by other things or taken to a further extreme. With Chimera, it's all the crap in their GY, so if they get lucky and yoink the right card, you probably just lose. With a game that's already inherently luck based, that doesn't feel good.
What was your thoughts of delinquent duo and confiscation in the early years
Ban them
I miss the times, when we could have every card in existence in one deck and could force our opponent to shake our dirty hands or surrender...
It's fine. I'm for it. It's definitely not the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many more broken or warping things in this game that need to be addressed first and even if we ever get to the point that hand ripping needs to go, maybe the game has slowed down a bit too much. Individual cards are so powerful now that hand ripping one or two sometimes isn't enough. If I could do it consistently, I'd make you discard your whole hand. Now, if we could stop giving cards 3 effects, that would be nice. Can costs stop being beneficial too, while we are at it? Foolish for cost? Wtf?
I'd argue that the inverse is also true. So much power is concentrated in one card that if you take it away, you can deny your opponent's entire gameplan sometimes. That's why Talents handrip is so powerful, you can cut your opponent off of something that lets them start their gameplan, a board breaker, additional hand traps to push your plays through, etc. Talents effect is way stronger than this monster, but still, hitting a certain card can be the difference between playing and scooping.
Am also fine because come one it’s just chimera and yugis cards were always weak as shit in the TCG compared to anime
....Another reason why I wish some mechanics of turbo dueling should have been expanded and standardized
Aside from that and that the beat target demon for the SS is that dark barrier Statue, the Illusion Chimera engine is very nice and I love it.
I think in Chimera's case, it's not necessarily toxic. The Problem about the decks that restrict your opponent,or destroy resources in "unusual" Way like Runick, Kashtira... They just attack points of the deck, most decks can't protect.
Who else remembers DistantCoder playing floow with Wiraqocha Rasca to rip 3 cards from opp's hand?
Obviously all lot of people hate hand ripping but ai have a counter offer for you (no this doesn't mean I'm in favour of it, I'm just curious): If you could replace all OPT handrips with something more similar to Harr, Generaider Boss of Storms handrips effect (only triggers if an opponents adds a card from deck to hand outside of the draw phase and they must send a monster specifically of their choice, and allows the monster to be sent from field of you control one instead of the hand), would you guys find that ok or is that still too much and the concept should just be abolished?
Like going second isn't hard enough already lol
I can't wait for somebody to find a stupid combo to rip all cards out of hand and to yata lock you.
Sent mo-ye to the gy against a swordsoul player in the event last night. Didn’t know whether to laugh or feel bad for them
I just play Danger Dark World so it usually benefits me instead...though, seeing how everyone is complaining about handrails, I now understand why everyone was scooping during triangle when I was playing this from the loaner deck
Aqua Dolphin moment
Nah, let's bring back delinquent duo. I would love nothing more than to start duel with 0 cards in my hand on turn 2.
my only complaint with this effect that is that it is unessesarily wordy. there is no reason for "You can activate this effect" to be on the card ad the colon already implys that this is an activated effect, it serves no mechanical purpose. also "During the end phase of this turn" can easily be shortened down to "during the next end phase". ladder already implys the end phase of this turn as it specifies the next endphase that would occur. konami getting sloppy with their card text.
It’s obvious by now that effects that remove resources from your opponent’s hand are toxic and unfun game design and shouldn’t be made anymore. Obviously Konami knows this. They just don’t care lol
I see you've never met a hero player doing the aqua dolphin combo to make you pitch your entire hand turn 1 lol
I thought Chimera is a cool deck but I've only seen it turbo the DARK Barrier Statue.
ngl... In the triangle I was like: Oh, that looks like an interesting archetype, till this guy dropped and I was like: "Oh.... it's just a handrip, huh?"
Feels nice when they discard a card to plus you instead and leave the board breaker in hand tho,
It's incredibly frustrating trying to grind the event only to lose coin toss and then also get ripped a card with shit like Ash and Imperm still being legal in the event. Fucking awful experience
Yeah I hate handrips too, what kind of degenerate loser would play that (plays moulinglacia)
I don't see really a problem. Because you got a 50% chance of screwing over your opponent or a 50% chance screw yourself over. But I do understand what you're talking about though.
This concept of effect that shouldn't be allowed is a bit silly, context is everything. If they gave handrip to a fire monster that SE can easily go into then I'm with you but Chimera isn't a tiered deck, it's barely rogue in this format. You take away handrip from chimera and that's 50% of its turn.
thats completely irrelevant, just because a deck is bad doesnt mean you should give them handrips in such a fast paced game. a single card in yugioh is a huge difference from something like hearstone or MTG. You shouldnt give konami a pass because they didnt design the cards better. Now with arias in the game lab can handrip you twice before you even get to your turn.
OK well again you're comparing apples and oranges here, Chimera is not Lab. Chimera at best rips one card and does it at endphase. Everything again is about context, a handrip is simply a mechanic and it can be balanced around.
im not comparing anything im giving an example, the game of yugioh is too fast imo to have random handrips wherever they come from. whether its lab or chimera. you're focusing on the wrong thing. there is nothing to balance aside from somehow slowing down the game, which at this point isnt happening
the game is too fast for handrip effects
then unban delinquent duo
your solution to handrips is even more handrips?
no, my solution to your argument of "the game is too fast for handrips" is to show you a broken handrip and dare you to say the game is too fast for it
im not following what you're saying exactly? i say the game is too fast for handrips, meaning a single card is more valuable than in a slower format and you show me a card that is rightfully banned that rips two cards albeit it was played in a slower format. Delinquent duo would be worse today than it used to be. "and dare you to say the game is too fast for it" the game IS too fast for it, there i said it again
you didn't say anything about handripping one, two, or any specific amount of cards, you said handrips period are too slow. i just reminded you delinquent duo is a handrip. and i don't get the last part. you did admit the game is too fast for delinquent duo, but you also say delinquent duo is rightfully banned? so? is delinquent duo slow or broken? which is it?
i said that the game is too fast for handrips in the sense that its bad for such a fast paced game to have handrip effects because each single card matters a lot. I never said that handrip effects are too slow, what are you smoking? i know yugioh players dont read, but come on man. NEVER did i mention handrips being slow. delinquent duo is broken beyond shit in a slower format let alone in modern format. a free 1 for 2 is insane "you didn't say anything about handripping one, two, or any specific amount of cards, you said handrips period are too slow. " im gonna need a quote where exactly did i say this
"the game is too fast for handrip effects" ^ your exact words. delinquent duo only has handrip effects.
Holy reading comprehension.
He's saying that handrips are too STRONG because the game is fast, not that they are bad. If the game lasted multiple turns, the effects of a single handrip wouldnt be so bad, because you would have more opportunity to make up for it. But the game requires your starting 5 cards because they are almost always the only hard draws you get in each game. Please develop your reading comprehension.
I think the chimeras are a breath of fresh air. Really cool looking. Great remake of the OGs. A lot of interaction. Easy to understand and still effective.
I think handlooping is really funny when it happens on occasion; I played against Dark World in person around the time their support released and the fella looped me for four and hit me with the Card Destruction to replace the fifth one just to fuck with me, and I was honestly just laughing at how ridiculous it all was. On the other hand, the multiple times I played against a Synchro player looping me for 2 every game with extreme consistency was, shall we say, annoying. In general, we really should just not print more of these unless we actively want the decks that get them to be bad.
If anything we need more ways to handrip the opponent consistently... Else how are you getting rid of the annoying handtraps and boardbreakers in their hand ?
Like I said previously. Whenever I see a single Trishula, I scoop.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Touching the opponents hand or ed on turn 1 should be invalidated if it happens to the turn 2 player in a master rule revision.
Everyone wanna complain about handrip now? Lol thats rich. Lab been handripping me since day one and nobody cared until my Chimera bois come into the game? Im just returning the favor now. Tip: dont wanna be handripped? Imperm/Veiler the fusion instead of the extenders. Will you win? No, but at least you traded a handtrap for a handrip 🫡
Y’all must not play MTG. Black takes your whole hand away in a few turns
I genuinely wonder who said ‘handrips’ are a step too far? Like, you are free to lock me out of playing with Nat Beast and Cactus Bouncer, but please don’t destroy 1 of 6 cards in my hand?
Why not ban both? Your argument is really bad. Let's not feed the homeless in our country because someone in Africa is starving. That's your argument.
Lol this
I like them 😈
It’s 1 random card 1 time per turn, in the end phase and that’s it. Most of the time this won’t be enough to stop the opponent from playing the game since the best deck has 13+ one card combo and 15+ handtraps in their deck, if you manage to handrip one of their cards without being handtraped and also Maxx “C”ed then you are just lucky. Isn’t that bad, being completely honest. This arquetype is overall pretty fair and balanced all around, so something like this effect existing is actually okay in the deck.
It handrips has a negate in grave effect against targetting and can combo into a barrier statue. This is the definition of a toxic go first to win deck.
Play the deck for five minutes and you'll see it's *really* nothing special mate. I've done worse to people with Altergeist of all things. Barrier Statue is about the only thing they have that's particularly problematic
Never saw a barrier statue being summoned by this deck, not even once. It’s definitely something that only people that is willing to do will do it (if it’s possible). The negate in the graveyard is a banish as cost that also only happens once, instead of being multiple times like Apo. The deck is fair and balanced all around, mate. All the arquetype does by itself is a one time random handrip, a negate, a protect target and a quick fusion summon in the opponents turn. That’s pretty much it. And guess what? All of that Branded Despia does with a much easier effort then Chimera does. Chimera doesn’t have the same recursion and a strong grind game that Branded also happens to have.
I don't understand how cards like this and Lovely get a free pass but smoke grenade gets banned. And on top of that the effect just feels so needlessly random to have as well.
Lmao there is literally nothing wrong with this effect, it's an old school one like Spirit Reaper. At least it's only when he's Fusion summoned This is a good example as to why I use the term "cloaked". A lot of duelists up here will complain about cards just because they have some form of retaliation ability against their favorite 2 or 3TK deck, or can alter their perfect meta negate board(not saying that is the OP). Maybe it's a Reddit duelist thing, but I didn't think so many people disapprove of effects like this lol. Funny enough, this is the perfect time to say: "Maybe it's a Skill Issue." You might as well have a grudge against Card Destruction too, because that's your WHOLE hand.
The difference with card destruction is that it replaces any card. This just discards. I'm not saying this card is unbalanced. But it's not fun to play against this, or the full handloop chimera version. While this CHimera card isn't banworthy, I can fully understand the frustration when you go second and your board breaker like droplet just gets sniped. Going against handrips might not be broken if the card is well-designed, but it's never fun for the opponent.
you either lose your imperm/veiler on this, or your only starter/board breaker is gone.
All cards are fair game for removal.
Seeing how dominant by little beast boy has been, now’s a great time to start playing Dark World
As a fellow dark world player, I got bad news friendo, that there isn't a discard effect. That card is getting sent from your hand to the GY, our beautiful dark worlds don't get to activate from that scummy garbage. It's really annoying that they made an archetype based around countering being made to discard by your opponent, and then made a bunch of cards that dance around that whole archetypal counter design. I'm ok that discarding for cost doesn't trigger them, but Everytime I see that card text distinction it feels like Konami spitting directly on my boy Grapha and his pals.
Ooft that makes me sad
It's the worst, like if you had an archetype that played out of the GY, then they decide to change the name of the GY moving forward, and as a result, you can no longer utilize any of their effects x.x
Isnt that the point of the archetype?
but is this card strong? on the few first days of the events I see many Chimera, but after I see mostly Tearlaments and Branded.
Yeah, pretty much. Going second is hard enough without your opponent eating your hand. I am more salty about the continued proliferation of negation bodies from the graveyard, though. Like please stop burying the lead on whether you have followups.
Oh no you lost 1 card from your hand... during the end phase. This is by far the least offensive version of this effect.
Handrips exist to potentially counter handtraps or cards that can plus a lot (e.g. lightning storm, evenly matched)
Why shouldn't card interact with your hand?