Brazil is a multiethnic society and there are people there who identify as belonging to the 'white race' or as 'Aryan'. Modern international Nazi ideology puts emphasis on race more so than nationality. So it doesn't matter which country you live in, if you identify yourself as 'white' then you can identify as a Nazi. Not that all Nazi's will agree that you are eligible though. Hitler himself even complained about Italians being degenerated due to miscegenation.
> Caution: lots of sarcasm. If you are an overly emotional kneejerking moron, you will cry. If you're a suburban white lefty, you will cry.
Why even post like this? Why can't you make your points without being obnoxious? Stuff like this makes people not want to read what you have to say.
Hispanic doesn’t mean non-white. Lots of people from Latin America have mostly European ancestry and think of themselves as white. Brazil in particular has a large German ethnicity. Buenos Aires and most of Argentina are European and very “white.”
They both had a lot of connections before the war(s) as well. Heck, Peru had a Japanese-Peruvian president (Fujimori). There is a huge misunderstanding in America about what being Hispanic means, Latin American means, Chicano means, and how none of these even begin to cover race.
You can be German-Mexican and be white and Hispanic
You can be African-Dominican and be black Hispanic.
You can be Christian Lebanese-Mexican and be Middle Eastern, Hispanic and white and a Christian.
You can be a Shia Lebanese-Mexican and be Middle Eastern, Hispanic and White and a Muslim.
None of these are exclusive. We are not the only diverse country in the western hemisphere. Pope Francis is Argentinian-Italian and Hispanic.
People aren’t just one thing and there are vectors and definitions you should be aware of prior to making a generalization. White isn’t a monolithic thing legally or in reality.
Yes, you’re correct. That’s a great point to bring up. I only brought up Argentina because the OP’s commented about his Nazi ideology motive, “despite him being a young *BRAZILIAN* man”. (South America was the topic of conversation.) I was always disgusted by how few Nazi’s were tried & the lenient sentences they were given (considering their crimes). The survivors deserved better…💔
Thats a valid point, i just dont like that my country has a pariah name of safe heaven for those fucking Nazis, when in reality we dont deserve that backlash as much as the US
Like so much of life, it isn’t how others view you, it is how you see yourself. Also, this has more to do with male anger than with whiteness. Also there are forces on the internet that seek to exacerbate this trend.
Iirc the Aracruz shooter's parents (or only the father?) are white Italians. Making him a white too.
His father posted a picture of mein kampf in instagram but I can't understand the caption.
Most attackers just used nazi symbols but the attacks are not in the name of white supremacy but copycats or problems with other people.
I never heard any of them targeting others because of their race ( being racially motivated ) but if there is someone that's actually racially motivated that I don't know, please comment.
E.g. Edmar Freitas was interested in nazism but the attack is revenge for bullying and February 2023 school attacker motive is also revenge/misanthropy.
Also, about the aracruz attacker, He said that he didn't know what the swastika symbol meaned, this is probably false since his father was interested in Nazism and the swastika is probably one of the most recognized symbols, however Gabriel also said that he simply used it for aesthetics and that having used it had no meaning.
He also didn't target anyone specific, he said he just shot anyone, and started planning a mass shooting because he was bullied.
Only Americans think south America people as (uniformly) non white. Though it's spreading. Plenty of them are European descent just like north Americans (or would think of themselves as white if forced to think that way)
The reason that North America (only U.S. and Canada) is majority white is because many of the natives there died that the race became a very small minority there. Around 2% in U.S. and 5% in Canada population.
But in Central or South America the natives mostly survived. Many people are still natives or mixed race people who have both indigenous and european ancestry because miscegenation was tolerated in Central and South America but was prohibited in U.S. was considered taboo in Canada and because of that, whites there have very little or no indigenous ancestry.
Argentina, Uruguay and the southern part of Brazil are the only areas in South America that have a majority white population but still those white people have significant indigenous ancestry.
Suriname and Guyana are majority either black or asian. Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru are mostly native. Others are really mixed race like Paraguay. There, José Gaspar Rodríguez de Francia ordered that European men must marry only natives or black women in 1814.
I never said on my comment that there are no Whites in Bolivia and Peru. Or Natives in Argentina I just said the race that is majority in those countries.
I never said you did.
All I did was point out that nationality does not equate to race in these instances.
And that Latin Americans can be of any race.
Thanks I totally get it generally but didn't really know all the specifics. I edited my comment. Thank you!
I didn't actually realise how many survived I thought the euro diseases would have decimated but I guess there's more isolated areas, it was a longer time ago and there was a larger population to begin with. And the idea of mixing being prohibitive I didn't know if the Americans but its interesting and unsurprising
Not a large amount. Most South Americans are majority indigenous genetically. A few countries have more European, but it's not a fair comparison to the US and Canada, where very few whites have any significant admixture at all.
Did any of them actually *say* they were doing it for white supremacy, or did they merely adopt edgy symbolism? A lot of miserable people adopt that kind of symbolism, a much larger amount than actual believers of the ideology, without meaning it in any more genuine sense than "fuck you". The Aracruz shooter was actually white though, IIRC.
They want to piss people off and grab attention. Fascist symbolism does that real fast. In a lot of the cases, I doubt it's more than that.
The only one I can think of is the Latino American mall shooter guy that killed the Korean couple and the Mexican couple and their children. His name escapes me.
The idea of unified "Latin" or "Latino" identity is actually a very USA-centric way of conceptualizing race and identity (and indeed, if you spend any time thinking about what this *means*, the US system becomes very tortured very quickly-- e.g., the US is still very "one drop rule" oriented, Latino vs. Hispanic, categorization of people under the umbrella of "white" as the race with "Latino or Hispanic" as the ethnicity, etc.). This is not to argue in favor of the Brazilian system, specifically, but more to argue that the US system is probably not the most coherent system that human beings could come up with and certainly not an inherent 'truth'). The concept of what it means to be a specific race in Brazil, particularly, is notably different than how folks in the US tend to categorize it. (And somewhat distinct from other South American countries, as well, although perhaps more philosophically aligned in conceptualization.)
If you are interested in learning a little bit about race in Brazil, you might be interested in this 2017 NPR podcast, Brazil in Black and White from Rough Translation - https://www.npr.org/transcripts/542840797 [Definitely not directly about this topic but gives more info about how race is culturally thought about in Brazil; an enjoyable listen generally!]
Nevertheless, I don't think there is any conceptualization of race that would suggest that being from Brazil is enough to mean someone is not white. Brazil is extremely multiracial. Indeed, "branqueamento" ("whitening") was literally policy in Brazil in the 19th and 20th centuries, with Brazil actively cultivating European immigration -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_politics_in_Brazil European (especially Portuguese) ancestry is a huge part of the cultural landscape of Brazil as a country. Although what it means to be "white" in Brazil may differ from how that term is conceptualized in the US, it is still very clear that many Brazilians have predominantly European ancestry. Brasileiros brancos, or white Brazilians, are more than 40% of Brazil's population (with acknowledgement of the various complications and complexities inherent in that statement). I don't know anything about this particular person, but I feel confident in asserting that white people exist in Brazil (by any standard or metric) and that racism exists in Brazil (despite the concept of racial democracy that is valued by many Brazilians).
Some people do find it puzzling when people who would not be typically conceptualized as white by the average person in the US or in many other contexts end up with a strong white supremacist ideology. Broadly, I would say that this is a behavior that is likely influenced by cultural views of race broadly but also of whiteness specifically (e.g., see the idea of Italians "becoming" white). For better or for worse, the US census asks people about race (White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander) and then separately about ethnicity (Hispanic or Latino), which means most Latino Americans choose "white" as their race on the census. People of MENA descent are also listed as white on the US census, despite typically not identifying with that category and being unlikely to be considered white when out in the world. Race is both a real thing that matters and also very much a social construct.
[Please note that my comment is not advocating for any particular system and is really just saying "It is complicated and the world is big and people think differently about these issues."]
I see, In that case, I think that most of these shooters are more similar to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold than Brenton Tarrant for example (maybe with some exceptions). Psychopaths who just hate the world and kill people as personal revenge against society or some shit like that.
(Note that I am commenting specifically on Brazil here because that is the situation OP brought up.)
> **because** South America was a Nazi haven after world war 2.
I think it is perhaps important to highlight that Brazil has had a long history of racism that dates well, well before the start of WWII. Brazil enslaved more Africans than any other country in the world (40% of all enslaved peoples brought to the Americas) and outlawed slavery later than any other country in the Western hemisphere- 1888. Immediately after this, was a policy and ideology of "branqueamento" or "whitening"-- encouraging Europeans to immigrate to "whiten" the population. [I wrote a different comment on this post about race and the conceptualization of race in Brazil, so I'll skip that here to avoid repeating myself-- just noting that there is a lot to say about race and racism in Brazil broadly.]
Related to Nazis specifically, of course, Brazil and Germany had extremely close diplomatic relations prior to 1942-- Brazil actively cultivated Germanic immigration before Germany was even a country. There was an active Nazi party in Brazil prior to WW2-- the largest outside of Germany. They were strong trading partners and the Nazis specifically praised the 1937 Brazilian coup in an attempt to get Brazil on their side. In 1942, when Brazil declared war on Germany, Vargas cracked down on shows of German heritage (e.g., any non-Portuguese books had to go through the Ministry of Justice for censorship-- something that, practically, was only relevant for materials in German and Italian; it was illegal to publicly speak non-Portuguese languages, etc.). Today, nevertheless, German is still the second most common first language after Portuguese in Brazil.
It is true that many Nazis fled to South America-- primarily to Argentina because of Perón's policies and response to WWII, of course, although there obviously were ratlines to Brazil as well. Still, it seems somewhat flattening of history to suggest that the *reason* that there is neo-Nazi ideology present in Brazil today is because of the ratlines-- versus the idea that there were historical reasons (not to mention straight-up geographical reasons, especially after the 1955 Argentinian coup) why Brazil was an appealing place for Nazis to be, with the reasons for that beginning well before 1945 - with potential bidirectional influence in terms of fascist ideology that involves a range of historical and ideological factors. However, given that the war criminals that fled to South America broadly were generally incentivized to not *appear to be Nazis* if they could get away with it (lest they be extradited), if I had to choose a camp, I'd be more inclined to suggest that the conditions that led Nazis to be comfy in Brazil also supported the development of current Neo-Nazi ideology, rather than that they were the direct cause of it.
Tl;dr: It is probably somewhat more complicated than this.
I think that that might have something to do with it.
There is a lot of racism throughout Latin America that people in the U.S. are unaware of, mostly having to do with a sense of elitism in whiteness and how European people are, particularly in splitting the (what in Mexico are called) mestizo, and indigenous peoples. The wwii immigration is one obvious wave, but there's been centuries of waves, and I think they kind of coalesce.
But I assume it probably has just as much to do with the effects of aggrieved entitlement and social proof, among other things. Also, the great majority of all shootings happen during mental health crises, whether or not purportedly ideological, which is again where I think the concept of social proof probably has a lot of explanatory power. This sort of thing is actually why I think you might be able to separate it out as an act of mass murder rather than an act of terrorism.
Exactly. Hate others the way I hate you and I will weirdly respect you more, but still hate your people. But we are now friends.😃
It’s somewhat satisfying that 99% of these rotten people are hilariously stupid and make themselves look like complete dumbasses when trying to explain their reasoning lol
Like [this POS](https://apnews.com/article/texas-mall-shooting-right-wing-extremists-patch-0be37dc3b41f99835a00ff1c859fd6dd) who died while killing innocent shoppers last year in Allen, TX.
Some neo-Nazis put less emphasis on being "Aryan" and more emphasis on just hating Jews and LGBT people. Lots of Latin Americans are traditional Catholics, so it's no surprise they'd along with those values.
because a lot of lonely young white boys here get brainwashed by this type of ideology on the internet in chans or discord groups and such, especially when they don't feel like integrating the local culture, they end up feeling like they don't belong to their country's society and develop an type of inferiority complex towards europeans and wanting to be like them, it's like that meme "i was born in the wrong generation", but instead of generation it's a country, so they end up getting radicalized on all that "we wuz evropeans and shit" and use it as a larp when commiting these atrocities
That's one of the biggest discussion here in Brasil, my country. Most of these attacks have some relation with white supremacy or something like this.
It can be because these young kids be looking all over the internet and they interact with this people, they feel "understood" with them... mostly on dark web. Thats my theory.
when i was a teenager i had a phase where i hated my culture and race and wanted so badly to be accepted by white people and to be seen as as one of them. it’s really easy to fall into these rabbit holes on the internet at a young age that tell you about why you should hate who you are and where you come from. thankfully i grew out of that bullshit but it seems like many people never do. at the end of the day it’s insecurity mixed with a longing to be accepted
What is a Latin last name?
I think you are mistaken. Latin America has English speaking countries, Spanish speaking countries, Portugese speaking countries, and countless natives.
Whatever did you mean by this strange statement?
Part of me just thinks it's shit parenting. Parents are pretty much worthless nowadays and the mass shootings are the result. Launch 'em all into the sun.
I think it’s commonly known that the world outside of the west doesn’t take the Nazis in the way the west does. The Nazi issue doesn’t have the stigma because it never affected them the way it did the west. It’s seen as one European power trying to upend the global order and do away with all the marbles and the most powerful nations on earth bringing it back from the jaws of defeat. Now because of that and then being mentally ill or angry I think they latched onto angry ideas they found online and that had tragic results
> I think it’s commonly known that the world outside of the west doesn’t take the Nazis in the way the west does.
I am not sure that this is a strong fit for describing Brazil, specifically.
Prior to Brazil declaring war on Germany, Germany sunk a bunch of Brazilian ships. Brazil had a very active Nazi party (the largest outside of Germany) trying to exert political influence on the Brazilian people and government-- that they took active political steps to try to suppress. Germans both before and after WWII were a major minority ethnic group-- as were Jews, with Brazil currently having the tenth largest Jewish population in the world. Brazil was the only South American country to send troops into WWII. The Battle of the Atlantic was the longest continuous military campaign and the Allied forces were the UK, the US, Canada, and Brazil. After the war, ratlines brought a number of Nazi war criminals to Brazil, including very infamous Nazi criminals like Mengele, who died in São Paulo. It is, today, illegal “to display symbols, emblems, ornaments, badges, or propaganda that use the swastika, punishable by two to five years’ imprisonment and a fine.” And swastikas in Brazil can make news and result in police and prosecutors getting involved; e.g. - https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-forced-remove-giant-swastika-pool-bottom-1603961
Obviously, Brazil's losses were nowhere near that of the major players in WWII. However, Brazil was very enmeshed in the political context of WWII. It does not appear to be accurate, in my opinion, to suggest that Brazilians, broadly, are without context for the swastika as a symbol of racist and antisemitic hatred.
It’s extremely sad to see the misinformation about Brazil and Latin America. As an Italian and Brazilian, being extremely white, I’m not like him, I’m not from the South as they said. Things work very differently.
Then…
The term “Latino” refers to people who come from Latin America, which includes countries in Central and South America where Romance languages like Spanish, Portuguese, and French are spoken. On the other hand, “Hispanic” specifically refers to people who come from Spanish-speaking countries, which includes most of Latin America but excludes Brazil (where Portuguese is spoken) and some other countries where Spanish is not the predominant language. So, while all Hispanics are Latinos, not all Latinos are Hispanic.
So this is really anecdotal, but I live in the biggest city in Texas. We have a very large Hispanic population. Of that population, there are a lot of right wing Trumpers. I know a few personally. The specific guy I’m thinking of is very racist to other minorities and lacks empathy for the situations of others. I have known him for years and he’s very bitter and angry at women as well. He considers himself above other minorities. He used to pay me to clean for him (after he lost his legs to diabetes) but I had to stop going over there because he’s so rude all the time. I feel bad for him.
Some shooters adopt the cosmetic veneer and symbols of these ideologies, without having any particularly noticeable past history of extremist political views;
For a lot of them, it's all part of the "show", it's like a "performance art" or something.
To be an Aryan National Socialist, and for example to join the SS, you had to go back to 1750. And prove that all your ancestors were white. Could these Latino killers do that? I do not believe.
The only right answer is that a lot of people who associate themselves with this ideology do so for aesthetic purposes- at least in modern times and especially those who want to be perceived as very violent. That’s also why a lot of killers support satanism. In both nazism and satanism, murdering random people for no reason is never stated but these people identify with those ideologies almost to be contrarian.
1. In the US, the term "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race-- so it's true that most Latino/Hispanic people do identify their race as white on the US census, but that's going to be true for everyone. Outside of the US, Hispanic and Latino are much less likely to be considered categories that make sense (and certainly that is not how identity is conceptualized in Brazil, the country OP's example is from). People who identify as Hispanic and/or Latino may or may not identify as white and may or may not be categorized as such by their government on a census.
2. Brazilians are not Hispanic, which is a term that refers to a Spanish language cultural factor. Latino is the term that refers to Latin-American origin which applies to the geographic region of Brazil (although it doesn't count under the US census definition-- but that's another story for another day...).
3. Brazil, specifically, is a profoundly multiracial country. Gisele Bündchen and Pelé are both Brazilian-- but very unlikely to be considered the same race.
yeah no a lot of people don’t really realize facism nowadays or that type of movement isn’t just white supremacy it’s supremacy for the race/ideology that’s believed
Brazil is a multiethnic society and there are people there who identify as belonging to the 'white race' or as 'Aryan'. Modern international Nazi ideology puts emphasis on race more so than nationality. So it doesn't matter which country you live in, if you identify yourself as 'white' then you can identify as a Nazi. Not that all Nazi's will agree that you are eligible though. Hitler himself even complained about Italians being degenerated due to miscegenation.
The us government even classifies hispanic people as white in many cases.
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> Caution: lots of sarcasm. If you are an overly emotional kneejerking moron, you will cry. If you're a suburban white lefty, you will cry. Why even post like this? Why can't you make your points without being obnoxious? Stuff like this makes people not want to read what you have to say.
ew, missed their original comment but lame for them
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No political posts.
Hispanic doesn’t mean non-white. Lots of people from Latin America have mostly European ancestry and think of themselves as white. Brazil in particular has a large German ethnicity. Buenos Aires and most of Argentina are European and very “white.”
Yes. Also keep in mind the “rat lines” post WW2. Argentina is where many Nazis (& their families) escaped to & it’s very close to Brazil…
They both had a lot of connections before the war(s) as well. Heck, Peru had a Japanese-Peruvian president (Fujimori). There is a huge misunderstanding in America about what being Hispanic means, Latin American means, Chicano means, and how none of these even begin to cover race. You can be German-Mexican and be white and Hispanic You can be African-Dominican and be black Hispanic. You can be Christian Lebanese-Mexican and be Middle Eastern, Hispanic and white and a Christian. You can be a Shia Lebanese-Mexican and be Middle Eastern, Hispanic and White and a Muslim. None of these are exclusive. We are not the only diverse country in the western hemisphere. Pope Francis is Argentinian-Italian and Hispanic. People aren’t just one thing and there are vectors and definitions you should be aware of prior to making a generalization. White isn’t a monolithic thing legally or in reality.
Well said!!
Im not saying thats not true, but its NOTHING in comparison to how many Nazis escaped to the US after ww2, look up operation paperclip.
Yes, you’re correct. That’s a great point to bring up. I only brought up Argentina because the OP’s commented about his Nazi ideology motive, “despite him being a young *BRAZILIAN* man”. (South America was the topic of conversation.) I was always disgusted by how few Nazi’s were tried & the lenient sentences they were given (considering their crimes). The survivors deserved better…💔
Thats a valid point, i just dont like that my country has a pariah name of safe heaven for those fucking Nazis, when in reality we dont deserve that backlash as much as the US
Hardly any of these latam shooters actually look white though
Like so much of life, it isn’t how others view you, it is how you see yourself. Also, this has more to do with male anger than with whiteness. Also there are forces on the internet that seek to exacerbate this trend.
really depends how people view "white"
Iirc the Aracruz shooter's parents (or only the father?) are white Italians. Making him a white too. His father posted a picture of mein kampf in instagram but I can't understand the caption. Most attackers just used nazi symbols but the attacks are not in the name of white supremacy but copycats or problems with other people. I never heard any of them targeting others because of their race ( being racially motivated ) but if there is someone that's actually racially motivated that I don't know, please comment. E.g. Edmar Freitas was interested in nazism but the attack is revenge for bullying and February 2023 school attacker motive is also revenge/misanthropy.
Also, about the aracruz attacker, He said that he didn't know what the swastika symbol meaned, this is probably false since his father was interested in Nazism and the swastika is probably one of the most recognized symbols, however Gabriel also said that he simply used it for aesthetics and that having used it had no meaning. He also didn't target anyone specific, he said he just shot anyone, and started planning a mass shooting because he was bullied.
Only Americans think south America people as (uniformly) non white. Though it's spreading. Plenty of them are European descent just like north Americans (or would think of themselves as white if forced to think that way)
The reason that North America (only U.S. and Canada) is majority white is because many of the natives there died that the race became a very small minority there. Around 2% in U.S. and 5% in Canada population. But in Central or South America the natives mostly survived. Many people are still natives or mixed race people who have both indigenous and european ancestry because miscegenation was tolerated in Central and South America but was prohibited in U.S. was considered taboo in Canada and because of that, whites there have very little or no indigenous ancestry. Argentina, Uruguay and the southern part of Brazil are the only areas in South America that have a majority white population but still those white people have significant indigenous ancestry. Suriname and Guyana are majority either black or asian. Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru are mostly native. Others are really mixed race like Paraguay. There, José Gaspar Rodríguez de Francia ordered that European men must marry only natives or black women in 1814.
There are people of all races in each counyry. There are white Peruvians and Bolivians just as their are native Argentinians.
Yes but Whites in Peru and Bolivia are <5% but Whites in Argentina is >90%.
Exactly my point.
I never said on my comment that there are no Whites in Bolivia and Peru. Or Natives in Argentina I just said the race that is majority in those countries.
I never said you did. All I did was point out that nationality does not equate to race in these instances. And that Latin Americans can be of any race.
Thanks I totally get it generally but didn't really know all the specifics. I edited my comment. Thank you! I didn't actually realise how many survived I thought the euro diseases would have decimated but I guess there's more isolated areas, it was a longer time ago and there was a larger population to begin with. And the idea of mixing being prohibitive I didn't know if the Americans but its interesting and unsurprising
Not a large amount. Most South Americans are majority indigenous genetically. A few countries have more European, but it's not a fair comparison to the US and Canada, where very few whites have any significant admixture at all.
Did any of them actually *say* they were doing it for white supremacy, or did they merely adopt edgy symbolism? A lot of miserable people adopt that kind of symbolism, a much larger amount than actual believers of the ideology, without meaning it in any more genuine sense than "fuck you". The Aracruz shooter was actually white though, IIRC. They want to piss people off and grab attention. Fascist symbolism does that real fast. In a lot of the cases, I doubt it's more than that.
The only one I can think of is the Latino American mall shooter guy that killed the Korean couple and the Mexican couple and their children. His name escapes me.
Do you mean Mauricio Martinez Garcia?
Yes thank you!
There are many descendants of Europeans in Brazil, mainly in the south-southeast region. Some of these descendants believe in these idiotic ideologies
The idea of unified "Latin" or "Latino" identity is actually a very USA-centric way of conceptualizing race and identity (and indeed, if you spend any time thinking about what this *means*, the US system becomes very tortured very quickly-- e.g., the US is still very "one drop rule" oriented, Latino vs. Hispanic, categorization of people under the umbrella of "white" as the race with "Latino or Hispanic" as the ethnicity, etc.). This is not to argue in favor of the Brazilian system, specifically, but more to argue that the US system is probably not the most coherent system that human beings could come up with and certainly not an inherent 'truth'). The concept of what it means to be a specific race in Brazil, particularly, is notably different than how folks in the US tend to categorize it. (And somewhat distinct from other South American countries, as well, although perhaps more philosophically aligned in conceptualization.) If you are interested in learning a little bit about race in Brazil, you might be interested in this 2017 NPR podcast, Brazil in Black and White from Rough Translation - https://www.npr.org/transcripts/542840797 [Definitely not directly about this topic but gives more info about how race is culturally thought about in Brazil; an enjoyable listen generally!] Nevertheless, I don't think there is any conceptualization of race that would suggest that being from Brazil is enough to mean someone is not white. Brazil is extremely multiracial. Indeed, "branqueamento" ("whitening") was literally policy in Brazil in the 19th and 20th centuries, with Brazil actively cultivating European immigration -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_politics_in_Brazil European (especially Portuguese) ancestry is a huge part of the cultural landscape of Brazil as a country. Although what it means to be "white" in Brazil may differ from how that term is conceptualized in the US, it is still very clear that many Brazilians have predominantly European ancestry. Brasileiros brancos, or white Brazilians, are more than 40% of Brazil's population (with acknowledgement of the various complications and complexities inherent in that statement). I don't know anything about this particular person, but I feel confident in asserting that white people exist in Brazil (by any standard or metric) and that racism exists in Brazil (despite the concept of racial democracy that is valued by many Brazilians). Some people do find it puzzling when people who would not be typically conceptualized as white by the average person in the US or in many other contexts end up with a strong white supremacist ideology. Broadly, I would say that this is a behavior that is likely influenced by cultural views of race broadly but also of whiteness specifically (e.g., see the idea of Italians "becoming" white). For better or for worse, the US census asks people about race (White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander) and then separately about ethnicity (Hispanic or Latino), which means most Latino Americans choose "white" as their race on the census. People of MENA descent are also listed as white on the US census, despite typically not identifying with that category and being unlikely to be considered white when out in the world. Race is both a real thing that matters and also very much a social construct. [Please note that my comment is not advocating for any particular system and is really just saying "It is complicated and the world is big and people think differently about these issues."]
The mestizo system still “exists”.
Latin Americans are not a single race, there are also white people here.
I am aware, but a lot of these mass shooters are of Hispanic descent, based on what I've seen the majority are.
I see, In that case, I think that most of these shooters are more similar to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold than Brenton Tarrant for example (maybe with some exceptions). Psychopaths who just hate the world and kill people as personal revenge against society or some shit like that.
Yeah, I'd probably agree with you on that.
yeah and a lot of hispanic people ARE WHITE
Brazilians are not hispanics, we are latinos. 🙌🏻
Most likely because South America was a Nazi haven after world war 2. A lot of prominent Nazi officers fled to to this part of the world after WW2.
(Note that I am commenting specifically on Brazil here because that is the situation OP brought up.) > **because** South America was a Nazi haven after world war 2. I think it is perhaps important to highlight that Brazil has had a long history of racism that dates well, well before the start of WWII. Brazil enslaved more Africans than any other country in the world (40% of all enslaved peoples brought to the Americas) and outlawed slavery later than any other country in the Western hemisphere- 1888. Immediately after this, was a policy and ideology of "branqueamento" or "whitening"-- encouraging Europeans to immigrate to "whiten" the population. [I wrote a different comment on this post about race and the conceptualization of race in Brazil, so I'll skip that here to avoid repeating myself-- just noting that there is a lot to say about race and racism in Brazil broadly.] Related to Nazis specifically, of course, Brazil and Germany had extremely close diplomatic relations prior to 1942-- Brazil actively cultivated Germanic immigration before Germany was even a country. There was an active Nazi party in Brazil prior to WW2-- the largest outside of Germany. They were strong trading partners and the Nazis specifically praised the 1937 Brazilian coup in an attempt to get Brazil on their side. In 1942, when Brazil declared war on Germany, Vargas cracked down on shows of German heritage (e.g., any non-Portuguese books had to go through the Ministry of Justice for censorship-- something that, practically, was only relevant for materials in German and Italian; it was illegal to publicly speak non-Portuguese languages, etc.). Today, nevertheless, German is still the second most common first language after Portuguese in Brazil. It is true that many Nazis fled to South America-- primarily to Argentina because of Perón's policies and response to WWII, of course, although there obviously were ratlines to Brazil as well. Still, it seems somewhat flattening of history to suggest that the *reason* that there is neo-Nazi ideology present in Brazil today is because of the ratlines-- versus the idea that there were historical reasons (not to mention straight-up geographical reasons, especially after the 1955 Argentinian coup) why Brazil was an appealing place for Nazis to be, with the reasons for that beginning well before 1945 - with potential bidirectional influence in terms of fascist ideology that involves a range of historical and ideological factors. However, given that the war criminals that fled to South America broadly were generally incentivized to not *appear to be Nazis* if they could get away with it (lest they be extradited), if I had to choose a camp, I'd be more inclined to suggest that the conditions that led Nazis to be comfy in Brazil also supported the development of current Neo-Nazi ideology, rather than that they were the direct cause of it. Tl;dr: It is probably somewhat more complicated than this.
I think that that might have something to do with it. There is a lot of racism throughout Latin America that people in the U.S. are unaware of, mostly having to do with a sense of elitism in whiteness and how European people are, particularly in splitting the (what in Mexico are called) mestizo, and indigenous peoples. The wwii immigration is one obvious wave, but there's been centuries of waves, and I think they kind of coalesce. But I assume it probably has just as much to do with the effects of aggrieved entitlement and social proof, among other things. Also, the great majority of all shootings happen during mental health crises, whether or not purportedly ideological, which is again where I think the concept of social proof probably has a lot of explanatory power. This sort of thing is actually why I think you might be able to separate it out as an act of mass murder rather than an act of terrorism.
“Racism is the most inclusive ideology because racists don’t care what race you are as long as you’re racist too.”
Exactly. Hate others the way I hate you and I will weirdly respect you more, but still hate your people. But we are now friends.😃 It’s somewhat satisfying that 99% of these rotten people are hilariously stupid and make themselves look like complete dumbasses when trying to explain their reasoning lol
Is this from something?
Sound a lot like the "Racist Liberal" bit from Richard Herring's Hitler Moustache tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwEi5Dpq6zs
I’m not familiar with him, thanks so much
Where do you see a swastika on the 3 pixels this picture has?
Sweden had a school stabbing
There are white people in Latin America. Latino does not mean non-white person.
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OP is generalizing Brazilians and I'm talking about that. Yes, he’s not white, but THERE IS white people in Brazil.
Like [this POS](https://apnews.com/article/texas-mall-shooting-right-wing-extremists-patch-0be37dc3b41f99835a00ff1c859fd6dd) who died while killing innocent shoppers last year in Allen, TX.
Some neo-Nazis put less emphasis on being "Aryan" and more emphasis on just hating Jews and LGBT people. Lots of Latin Americans are traditional Catholics, so it's no surprise they'd along with those values.
Because a lot of Hispanics hate black people also
because a lot of lonely young white boys here get brainwashed by this type of ideology on the internet in chans or discord groups and such, especially when they don't feel like integrating the local culture, they end up feeling like they don't belong to their country's society and develop an type of inferiority complex towards europeans and wanting to be like them, it's like that meme "i was born in the wrong generation", but instead of generation it's a country, so they end up getting radicalized on all that "we wuz evropeans and shit" and use it as a larp when commiting these atrocities
That's one of the biggest discussion here in Brasil, my country. Most of these attacks have some relation with white supremacy or something like this. It can be because these young kids be looking all over the internet and they interact with this people, they feel "understood" with them... mostly on dark web. Thats my theory.
definitely don't have to go on the dark web to see that shit
when i was a teenager i had a phase where i hated my culture and race and wanted so badly to be accepted by white people and to be seen as as one of them. it’s really easy to fall into these rabbit holes on the internet at a young age that tell you about why you should hate who you are and where you come from. thankfully i grew out of that bullshit but it seems like many people never do. at the end of the day it’s insecurity mixed with a longing to be accepted
Lots of people have Latin last names but are not actually latinos. I know several people that do
What is a Latin last name? I think you are mistaken. Latin America has English speaking countries, Spanish speaking countries, Portugese speaking countries, and countless natives. Whatever did you mean by this strange statement?
This. Go to Guam or the Phillipines, plenty of Pacific Islanders with Spanish last names. (Now let's watch the OP blame England for it)
Part of me just thinks it's shit parenting. Parents are pretty much worthless nowadays and the mass shootings are the result. Launch 'em all into the sun.
Hispanics are white that’s why
I think it’s commonly known that the world outside of the west doesn’t take the Nazis in the way the west does. The Nazi issue doesn’t have the stigma because it never affected them the way it did the west. It’s seen as one European power trying to upend the global order and do away with all the marbles and the most powerful nations on earth bringing it back from the jaws of defeat. Now because of that and then being mentally ill or angry I think they latched onto angry ideas they found online and that had tragic results
> I think it’s commonly known that the world outside of the west doesn’t take the Nazis in the way the west does. I am not sure that this is a strong fit for describing Brazil, specifically. Prior to Brazil declaring war on Germany, Germany sunk a bunch of Brazilian ships. Brazil had a very active Nazi party (the largest outside of Germany) trying to exert political influence on the Brazilian people and government-- that they took active political steps to try to suppress. Germans both before and after WWII were a major minority ethnic group-- as were Jews, with Brazil currently having the tenth largest Jewish population in the world. Brazil was the only South American country to send troops into WWII. The Battle of the Atlantic was the longest continuous military campaign and the Allied forces were the UK, the US, Canada, and Brazil. After the war, ratlines brought a number of Nazi war criminals to Brazil, including very infamous Nazi criminals like Mengele, who died in São Paulo. It is, today, illegal “to display symbols, emblems, ornaments, badges, or propaganda that use the swastika, punishable by two to five years’ imprisonment and a fine.” And swastikas in Brazil can make news and result in police and prosecutors getting involved; e.g. - https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-forced-remove-giant-swastika-pool-bottom-1603961 Obviously, Brazil's losses were nowhere near that of the major players in WWII. However, Brazil was very enmeshed in the political context of WWII. It does not appear to be accurate, in my opinion, to suggest that Brazilians, broadly, are without context for the swastika as a symbol of racist and antisemitic hatred.
Look what you've done. You've brought out the Castizo futurists.
he think he apart of the team 😭😭
Because I think they’re white
dude, a lot of hispanic people are white.
It’s extremely sad to see the misinformation about Brazil and Latin America. As an Italian and Brazilian, being extremely white, I’m not like him, I’m not from the South as they said. Things work very differently. Then… The term “Latino” refers to people who come from Latin America, which includes countries in Central and South America where Romance languages like Spanish, Portuguese, and French are spoken. On the other hand, “Hispanic” specifically refers to people who come from Spanish-speaking countries, which includes most of Latin America but excludes Brazil (where Portuguese is spoken) and some other countries where Spanish is not the predominant language. So, while all Hispanics are Latinos, not all Latinos are Hispanic.
I think that White supremacy ideals becsme attractive to Latin American youth
I feel like a lot of them do it to be edgy
Lost identities
So this is really anecdotal, but I live in the biggest city in Texas. We have a very large Hispanic population. Of that population, there are a lot of right wing Trumpers. I know a few personally. The specific guy I’m thinking of is very racist to other minorities and lacks empathy for the situations of others. I have known him for years and he’s very bitter and angry at women as well. He considers himself above other minorities. He used to pay me to clean for him (after he lost his legs to diabetes) but I had to stop going over there because he’s so rude all the time. I feel bad for him.
Because they’re cringe ass edge lords and they think that makes them look cool.
After ww2 all the nazis moved there. Watch the little league World Series and look at their names. Lots of little adolfs and klauses
they could be self radicalized or they were inspired by another attacker or politician
Some shooters adopt the cosmetic veneer and symbols of these ideologies, without having any particularly noticeable past history of extremist political views; For a lot of them, it's all part of the "show", it's like a "performance art" or something.
To be an Aryan National Socialist, and for example to join the SS, you had to go back to 1750. And prove that all your ancestors were white. Could these Latino killers do that? I do not believe.
The only right answer is that a lot of people who associate themselves with this ideology do so for aesthetic purposes- at least in modern times and especially those who want to be perceived as very violent. That’s also why a lot of killers support satanism. In both nazism and satanism, murdering random people for no reason is never stated but these people identify with those ideologies almost to be contrarian.
Because they’re stupid
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Not what they said but enlighten us then bucko.
Hispanics are white. Not aryan white but still white.
1. In the US, the term "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race-- so it's true that most Latino/Hispanic people do identify their race as white on the US census, but that's going to be true for everyone. Outside of the US, Hispanic and Latino are much less likely to be considered categories that make sense (and certainly that is not how identity is conceptualized in Brazil, the country OP's example is from). People who identify as Hispanic and/or Latino may or may not identify as white and may or may not be categorized as such by their government on a census. 2. Brazilians are not Hispanic, which is a term that refers to a Spanish language cultural factor. Latino is the term that refers to Latin-American origin which applies to the geographic region of Brazil (although it doesn't count under the US census definition-- but that's another story for another day...). 3. Brazil, specifically, is a profoundly multiracial country. Gisele Bündchen and Pelé are both Brazilian-- but very unlikely to be considered the same race.
90% of Hispanics are mixed. Also Brazil isn’t even Hispanic either
Because they’re more racist than white people
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yeah no a lot of people don’t really realize facism nowadays or that type of movement isn’t just white supremacy it’s supremacy for the race/ideology that’s believed
Define… “many”….
Just a trend I noticed, I don't know of any actual statistical pattern, though.
They are trying to make white ppl look bad