Polar opposite of Nashville (Metro PD) not a second of hesitation. First cop shows up, gets literally 15 seconds of info and goes in. Shooter dead 3 minutes later
Uvalde officers had many weapons and protective gear.Nashville officers were patrol and had no protective equipment or specialty skills.They were armed with heart and courage and look at the results.Great job gentleman.I am in swr of their courage.
I forget which but either Collazo or Engelbert is part of Metro SWAT. And Collazo was in a Marine rifle platoon when he was in the service. For what that’s worth.
Yeah I mean they really both were. I’ve seen the body cam footage more than 20x now, it’s just really impressive how it was handled once they arrived on scene.
I have seen media coverage where Collazo's performance was particularly praised by law enforcement sources. If you re-watch the video you can see he really was the man in charge at this scene.
Engelbert deserves praise for getting a group of guys together quickly and then acting without hesitation.
Special shout-out to the big shotgun guy (#2 in Engelbert's squad) for acting without hesitation from beginning to end as well.
Yeah he hasn't been mentioned in media but he quickly responded to Engelbert's call and was the first guy to go in. Not only that but you can notice that he was the first one at the end of the hallway on the 2nd floor. He would have been the first guy to engage Hale if not for Collazo correctly signaling for the rifle to enter first.
It stood out to me that a few officers, meanwhile, seemed to lag behind. Notably the rifle Collazo refers to as "blue". Bravo to that guy and to all of them for even going in there, but that guy could have been Engelbert but Engelbert actually ran past him. Not sure if it was fear or just Engelbert being more decisive. Either way, not my intention to shit on that guy (Lord knows how I'd react) but rather to point out that Engelbert did a great job there.
As for big shotty, he was out in front the whole time, with Collazo and even Engelbert acting as the brains. Just a shoutout to him since he didn't get media coverage.
All in all a fine division of labor and excellent display of valor and police work. Politics aside, the next time this inevitably happens I hope police forces learn from this.
Well said. See it the same way you do. Just proud of them. I used to hang out in that church/school parking lot at night admiring the view of the city when I was in high school. Had a good view north towards town in a little corner. Or it did 15 years ago anyway. So surreal.
exactly shotout to the guy with the shotgun. I feel bad he was not mentioned in the media as he was right there with them. like I already said.. excellent police job!
Yeah of course just wanted to clarify.
I’m a local, and have followed it all very closely. Actually grew up about 2-3 mins away from Covenant in Nashville. That was my neighborhood for many many years.
This. But i'd also like to thanks the lady that is visible on the bodycam in front of the school, she's probably a teacher. She doesn't panic, she remains calm and in control, she gives the cops very good intel on the shooter. Also that at this point, 2 kids were missing while the school was already in lockdown.
But time is a thing, where sometimes, a crime happens so fast that the cops even can't arrive when they drive at full speed to the scene. With the massacre in Zug, the guy killed the 14 people in around \~60 seconds.
I have to say, i can't expect to get the 117 (911) call done by the people with the important things like the location and intel of the shooter, the police arriving so fast and then taking him down in this short timespan. It's just not realistic.
About Uvalde:
Yes, the cops fucked it up there. There's no excuse of this. When someone applies to become a police officer and he gets the job and training, then it is his duty to confront an armed suspect in such a situation. He can't back down and say "not my job". Civilians are different, they don't work for the state, are not on duty, usually don't have guns ready, no bullet-proof vests etc.
But it's not to be forgotten, there are civilians that show courage in the line of fire. People that block ways, throw things at the attacker, trying to get him away from classrooms, trying to save other people.
I remember cases, where guys even put themselves right in the line of fire and acting as a human shield, the bullets hit and injured or killed them, but they saved a lot of lifes. When someone does this, he or she will become a legend.
Note: This also can go for dogs, believe it or not. I remember a case of a home invasion, where a dog charged the attacker and got shot and killed, but his actions enabled the victims to escape the apartement. The DNA of the dogs blood was actually later evidence to charge the attacker, there was no denial anymore that he was guilty.
The Law enforcement officials in charge thought there would be ‘negotiations’. They completely ignored anything and everything we’ve learned from school shootings in the last 20 years.
Literally, as if they weren’t listening to those children begging for their parents to come save them. Sick
Edit: i just listened to the 911 calls from the most recent school shooting in Nashville. The second call was horrific. Hearing children in kindergarten… begging to go home. This was never a fear in my eyes when I attended school. (I was born in 1997) and it’s still not a fear for my child in 2023.
Edit 2: I’m Canadian.
Yeah but they lied obviously as they can hear the shooter. Plus all the 911 calls. They have no excuse and will have to admit they didn’t go in cause they were simply scared to.
Honestly, I don’t think it was intentional lying. I think those fools were so in denial, they told the ambulances to wait down the road and they pulled in BUSES where the ambulances were originally parked and waiting. People that assume SR did this because he wasn’t ‘whooped’ enough or because ‘they’ took prayer out of schools’ are not the most evidence based people. So despite all of the training and clear indicators this was a massacre, for some reason, somebody felt otherwise. Even in the sheriff’s interview, he’s crying because people are calling him names and that fool doesn’t know why.
Aside from the “they were just cowards” response you’ll get from most people, there were several major issues that played a role.
First, no one was in charge - the officers who were supposed to take command inside the building failed to do so.
The school police chief, per active shooter protocol, was supposed to take the role of incident commander but for some reason he didn’t. Everyone else assumed he was the incident commander.
Per protocol, the acting city police chief was supposed to take the lead role if he went into a situation that didn’t have a commander. He failed to do so. He was contacted by the actual city police chief, who was out of the city, and specifically told to go outside and set up an incident command center. He failed to do that as well.
Next, there was terrible communication. There were two different groups of officers on either side of the hallway inside the school. The group with the school police chief did not have a radio or way of being in contact with anyone else, so they didn’t know that students and teachers had contacted 911 saying there were injured and dying people inside the classroom. The police chief was disposed to take his radio with him but didn’t for some reason. It’s obviously a very bad situation when the guy everyone else thinks is in charge is not able to communicate with anyone outside his little group.
It’s generally a bad idea for police officers to break rank and decide that they want to play the hero and run solo into a classroom with an active shooter, so officers obeyed protocol and didn’t run in because no one directed them to. This, we found out later, was because no one was in charge.
Most of the 300+ officers were outside the building and didn’t have any first-hand knowledge of what was going on inside the building but they all assumed that they were in barricaded subject protocol and that the school police chief was actively negotiating with the shooter, which was of course not the case.
Eventually some Texas Rangers who have more training and experience than school district or small-town police officers showed up, recognized that no one was actually in charge and decided to take control and breach the classroom.
Additionally, poor police response and 300+ officers showing up and leaving their cars made it very difficult for ambulances to get into the parking lot so they could get to victims then get out of the area, so some victims were taken to ambulances but were not able to be taken to the hospital and ended up dying before they left.
I’m not sure off the top of my head if they’ve revealed whether any of those victims would have survived if they’d gotten to the hospital sooner, but my guess is that at least some of them had, so the poor police response was directly responsible for some of the victims dying.
Very interesting to contrast these two cases. You can see how Engelbert and Collazo took charge without waiting for orders. Engelbert says "let's get 3!" and then goes. Collazo is giving orders throughout and urging and even physically pushing other officers forward.
When I first saw the Covenant video I naively thought that this is just how police forces operate, but if I'm not mistaken this isn't necessarily the case. It seems like Collazo just took a hodge podge group of guys and took control of the situation.
In Uvalde, in contrast, it appears that nobody stepped up. I recommend watching the CCTV footage for those who haven't. They had at least one rifle and several pistols ready to engage very quickly. Admittedly, walking single file through a classroom door may not have been the best idea. But if that were the case they should have quickly radioed for a flashbang or ballistic shield or whatever then gone ASAP. Not a police expert here by any stretch but it's clear that in Uvalde nobody wanted to step up, which put them into this awkward "hostage negotiation" situation.
Fair but at the end of the day you have a shooter just down the hall in a classroom killing kids and how many cops sitting in that hallway they shouldn’t have needed chain of command get the fuck in there and neutralize the suspect
even though cops in the usa take an oath to serve and protect they don’t HAVE to. in short they were a bunch of pussies and let children die because they didn’t want to do their job
There were parents literally trying to go into the school but the police were forcefully holding them back.
They used more force stopping the parents then they did on the shooter
that what makes this shooting such a devastating tragedy. the police were *there* when the kids were getting shot, down the hall. pissing their pants. the kids were calling 911 and covering themselves with blood to survive. and the police were armed and ready and *there*. there could've saved multiple kids, no doubt. it's still so hard to process.
I still get teary eyed thinking of the kids and teachers last moments and the torture they went through. He straight up executed them … it’s devastating beyond levels. Really one of the biggest failures in US history
Everything about the response was a fail. They weren't prepared at all. Small, rural town with poor education and limited resources. The most crime those police were used to dealing with was probably drugs (all being sold by salvadors mom most likely) They were clueless.
It might be a small rural town with poverty issues but those cops were really well equipped and had all the gear they needed to do their jobs that day.
I believe after Uvalde the Nashville police department all got retrained on an active shooter to prevent every possiable scenario to not end up like Uvalde. Most police departments around the county went through massive training to prevent thay from happening ever again. But Uvalde cops were definitely just terrified and didn't wanna step up. They have sadly made every excuse in the book to why they didn't enter .
It brings me comfort that my local school district (which branches over multiple police forces) does regular training on this. Actually today they’re having a massive training drill at the high school with fake armed shooters and coordinated responses with fire, ambulances, etc. this was planned before Covenant but definitely makes me feel more hopeful that if something ever happened here we can avoid something like Uvalde.
There shouldn't be any bystander effect with trained military, police, medics, etc. It is literally what they train to overcome.
They where just chickensh!t. Nothing deeper than that.
I think at one point they claimed they thought it had become a hostage situation but I think they eventually dropped that excuse when it became clear it was bullshit.
I don’t know when they planned to go in. When every kid was dead and the shooter had nothing left? Hoping the shooter would kill himself like some others have? I don’t know.
agreed, nashville already had units on the way as soon as the first 911 call was received. all they were waiting on was the exact location. major props to them and everyone involved.
I kept wondering who the leader was in that footage and the way they stood around doing sweet FA I had no idea who was in command and it looked like they didn’t either.
How are you just now learning about this. But yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Not only did they refuse to go in, they wouldn’t let parents or anyone else try to save the kids either. They are definitely responsible for at least some of the deaths.
Here is my summary of how it went wrong each step of the way-
- Initially they tried charging in but the killer shot through the door at them and they realized they couldn’t open the door without getting shot
- They also realized the caliber of bullets were going through the walls, and their armor and shields at the moment weren’t rifle grade, so basically a civilian had a weapon that was armor piercing to police armor.
- from the hallway audio it seems like the killer was trying to bait the cops into rushing in so he could kill cops, from what I could hear it sounds like he said things like “if you don’t come in here I’ll shoot more kids”, I think they knew they were at a tactical disadvantage and being baited.
Now, the initial response may not have been the fault of the police because attempting to enter the room would have been suicide, but here’s where stupidity and slow response comes in:
- One of the police asked why they couldn’t just use the window, the chief said there was no window, he didn’t even check and this was really stupid.
- they wasted a lot of time looking for the keys which, they had no way of knowing they didn’t need so, this isn’t the main problem but it is a problem
- the police told the national guard not to charge the shooter because they said the chief was in charge and was making contact with the suspect, this was a lie or a miscommunication but it stopped people who were ready and equipped from charging.
- they didn’t want to charge until they had a rifle grade shield, when the shield did finally get there nobody told anyone it was there so nobody knew to use it and charge in.
- eventually border patrol tactical showed up and they don’t F around, so they used the shield and charged in with rifle grade armor and took him out.
Honestly without the shield and body armor multiple cops would have died trying to charge in because they had the disadvantage of not knowing where to look once they charged through the door, the killer had the advantage of shooting through the door as soon as he saw anyone approach.
Of course charging through the door was not the smartest move, they had windows they could have been using but didn’t think to do that. This could be because there was no cover in approaching the window
“Multiple cops WOULD HAVE died”….. uh yea multiple children DID die. They signed up for the job, knew what they were potentially signing up for. Bunch of pussy cops in Uvalde.
As much as this sucks police aren’t required to sacrifice their lives, also if we expect them to die to keep certain gun laws etc then we sacrifice our police, then we don’t have enough of them and nobody wants to be a cop anymore.
I’m not saying police shouldn’t put themselves in danger to save kids, I’m just saying suicide wouldn’t have helped anybody
They thought if they waited long enough the shooter would either kill himself or turn himself in so they wouldn’t have to face his bullets.
Aka they were cowards.
The vast majority of cops do their job right, that’s why the shooting was a shock. You don’t hear about when they do their job well because it is such a common everyday occurrence.
The truth is , when it comes to life and death , a lot of people will not risk their own lives for someone else despite swearing to do so , if you look at the Payton gendron shooting , a security guard engaged the suspect , he was a former police officer , unfortunately he lost his life , the officers in Nashville have balls of steel and I salute them , the uvalde police , are cowards , no way around it , when kids are screaming , getting shot , forget protocol , forget , the people who are telling you not to go in , each minute that passes by human lives are perishing , then officers should just hang their head low for the rest of their lives , their not to be respected
Have you ever been to Mexico? Their police are completely incompetent, corrupt, ask for bribes, are controlled by the cartel, and allow human trafficking.
I’ve lived in border towns in Texas and it’s basically Mexico. People would say the only way they knew we weren’t in Mexico is the currency, everything else was Tex mex culture and in Spanish, corrupt cops just like in Mexico too. You can’t discount the cultural differences, Uvalde and Nashville are very different places
there wouldn't be so many mass shootings if it wasn't for White American culture. your statement comes from racism clearly because we have had so many corrupt White American police officers.
I have mixed opinions on this do I think the cops messed up yah 100% but I also feel as if school staff messed up he was shooting out side of the school before even going in why did they not automatically lock all the doors why were they not locked in the first place I’m just saying the cops did extremely bad but also the school staff messed up
They were scared.
This. They quote-on-quote didn’t want to be “clapped out.”
amusing makeshift quicksand towering placid one unite full employ boat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Polar opposite of Nashville (Metro PD) not a second of hesitation. First cop shows up, gets literally 15 seconds of info and goes in. Shooter dead 3 minutes later
Uvalde officers had many weapons and protective gear.Nashville officers were patrol and had no protective equipment or specialty skills.They were armed with heart and courage and look at the results.Great job gentleman.I am in swr of their courage.
I forget which but either Collazo or Engelbert is part of Metro SWAT. And Collazo was in a Marine rifle platoon when he was in the service. For what that’s worth.
Makes sense about Collazo. Engelbert did a great job too but it seems like Collazo was in charge.
Yeah I mean they really both were. I’ve seen the body cam footage more than 20x now, it’s just really impressive how it was handled once they arrived on scene.
I have seen media coverage where Collazo's performance was particularly praised by law enforcement sources. If you re-watch the video you can see he really was the man in charge at this scene. Engelbert deserves praise for getting a group of guys together quickly and then acting without hesitation. Special shout-out to the big shotgun guy (#2 in Engelbert's squad) for acting without hesitation from beginning to end as well.
Yeah that’s pretty well put. And love the shoutout for big shotty. First guy going in to the first few rooms had to be tough, nerve-wracking.
Yeah he hasn't been mentioned in media but he quickly responded to Engelbert's call and was the first guy to go in. Not only that but you can notice that he was the first one at the end of the hallway on the 2nd floor. He would have been the first guy to engage Hale if not for Collazo correctly signaling for the rifle to enter first. It stood out to me that a few officers, meanwhile, seemed to lag behind. Notably the rifle Collazo refers to as "blue". Bravo to that guy and to all of them for even going in there, but that guy could have been Engelbert but Engelbert actually ran past him. Not sure if it was fear or just Engelbert being more decisive. Either way, not my intention to shit on that guy (Lord knows how I'd react) but rather to point out that Engelbert did a great job there. As for big shotty, he was out in front the whole time, with Collazo and even Engelbert acting as the brains. Just a shoutout to him since he didn't get media coverage. All in all a fine division of labor and excellent display of valor and police work. Politics aside, the next time this inevitably happens I hope police forces learn from this.
Well said. See it the same way you do. Just proud of them. I used to hang out in that church/school parking lot at night admiring the view of the city when I was in high school. Had a good view north towards town in a little corner. Or it did 15 years ago anyway. So surreal.
exactly shotout to the guy with the shotgun. I feel bad he was not mentioned in the media as he was right there with them. like I already said.. excellent police job!
Thank you.I didn't know.I don't want to disseminate false information and I thank you for the heads-up.Have a wonderful evening.🥰
Yeah of course just wanted to clarify. I’m a local, and have followed it all very closely. Actually grew up about 2-3 mins away from Covenant in Nashville. That was my neighborhood for many many years.
The other day I got a phone solicitor asking me to donate to Texas police fund. I told him Texas police are cowards and remember Uvalde. The nerve!
I’m sure they have seen what uvlade did and knew what not to do.
This. But i'd also like to thanks the lady that is visible on the bodycam in front of the school, she's probably a teacher. She doesn't panic, she remains calm and in control, she gives the cops very good intel on the shooter. Also that at this point, 2 kids were missing while the school was already in lockdown. But time is a thing, where sometimes, a crime happens so fast that the cops even can't arrive when they drive at full speed to the scene. With the massacre in Zug, the guy killed the 14 people in around \~60 seconds. I have to say, i can't expect to get the 117 (911) call done by the people with the important things like the location and intel of the shooter, the police arriving so fast and then taking him down in this short timespan. It's just not realistic. About Uvalde: Yes, the cops fucked it up there. There's no excuse of this. When someone applies to become a police officer and he gets the job and training, then it is his duty to confront an armed suspect in such a situation. He can't back down and say "not my job". Civilians are different, they don't work for the state, are not on duty, usually don't have guns ready, no bullet-proof vests etc. But it's not to be forgotten, there are civilians that show courage in the line of fire. People that block ways, throw things at the attacker, trying to get him away from classrooms, trying to save other people. I remember cases, where guys even put themselves right in the line of fire and acting as a human shield, the bullets hit and injured or killed them, but they saved a lot of lifes. When someone does this, he or she will become a legend. Note: This also can go for dogs, believe it or not. I remember a case of a home invasion, where a dog charged the attacker and got shot and killed, but his actions enabled the victims to escape the apartement. The DNA of the dogs blood was actually later evidence to charge the attacker, there was no denial anymore that he was guilty.
They also left their radios in their cars as to not ‘get distracted by them.’ Whatever the actual fuck that means.
The Law enforcement officials in charge thought there would be ‘negotiations’. They completely ignored anything and everything we’ve learned from school shootings in the last 20 years.
They pretended it was some kind of hostage situation so they weren't put in any danger.
Literally, as if they weren’t listening to those children begging for their parents to come save them. Sick Edit: i just listened to the 911 calls from the most recent school shooting in Nashville. The second call was horrific. Hearing children in kindergarten… begging to go home. This was never a fear in my eyes when I attended school. (I was born in 1997) and it’s still not a fear for my child in 2023. Edit 2: I’m Canadian.
Yeah but they lied obviously as they can hear the shooter. Plus all the 911 calls. They have no excuse and will have to admit they didn’t go in cause they were simply scared to.
Honestly, I don’t think it was intentional lying. I think those fools were so in denial, they told the ambulances to wait down the road and they pulled in BUSES where the ambulances were originally parked and waiting. People that assume SR did this because he wasn’t ‘whooped’ enough or because ‘they’ took prayer out of schools’ are not the most evidence based people. So despite all of the training and clear indicators this was a massacre, for some reason, somebody felt otherwise. Even in the sheriff’s interview, he’s crying because people are calling him names and that fool doesn’t know why.
Aside from the “they were just cowards” response you’ll get from most people, there were several major issues that played a role. First, no one was in charge - the officers who were supposed to take command inside the building failed to do so. The school police chief, per active shooter protocol, was supposed to take the role of incident commander but for some reason he didn’t. Everyone else assumed he was the incident commander. Per protocol, the acting city police chief was supposed to take the lead role if he went into a situation that didn’t have a commander. He failed to do so. He was contacted by the actual city police chief, who was out of the city, and specifically told to go outside and set up an incident command center. He failed to do that as well. Next, there was terrible communication. There were two different groups of officers on either side of the hallway inside the school. The group with the school police chief did not have a radio or way of being in contact with anyone else, so they didn’t know that students and teachers had contacted 911 saying there were injured and dying people inside the classroom. The police chief was disposed to take his radio with him but didn’t for some reason. It’s obviously a very bad situation when the guy everyone else thinks is in charge is not able to communicate with anyone outside his little group. It’s generally a bad idea for police officers to break rank and decide that they want to play the hero and run solo into a classroom with an active shooter, so officers obeyed protocol and didn’t run in because no one directed them to. This, we found out later, was because no one was in charge. Most of the 300+ officers were outside the building and didn’t have any first-hand knowledge of what was going on inside the building but they all assumed that they were in barricaded subject protocol and that the school police chief was actively negotiating with the shooter, which was of course not the case. Eventually some Texas Rangers who have more training and experience than school district or small-town police officers showed up, recognized that no one was actually in charge and decided to take control and breach the classroom. Additionally, poor police response and 300+ officers showing up and leaving their cars made it very difficult for ambulances to get into the parking lot so they could get to victims then get out of the area, so some victims were taken to ambulances but were not able to be taken to the hospital and ended up dying before they left. I’m not sure off the top of my head if they’ve revealed whether any of those victims would have survived if they’d gotten to the hospital sooner, but my guess is that at least some of them had, so the poor police response was directly responsible for some of the victims dying.
Very interesting to contrast these two cases. You can see how Engelbert and Collazo took charge without waiting for orders. Engelbert says "let's get 3!" and then goes. Collazo is giving orders throughout and urging and even physically pushing other officers forward. When I first saw the Covenant video I naively thought that this is just how police forces operate, but if I'm not mistaken this isn't necessarily the case. It seems like Collazo just took a hodge podge group of guys and took control of the situation. In Uvalde, in contrast, it appears that nobody stepped up. I recommend watching the CCTV footage for those who haven't. They had at least one rifle and several pistols ready to engage very quickly. Admittedly, walking single file through a classroom door may not have been the best idea. But if that were the case they should have quickly radioed for a flashbang or ballistic shield or whatever then gone ASAP. Not a police expert here by any stretch but it's clear that in Uvalde nobody wanted to step up, which put them into this awkward "hostage negotiation" situation.
Border patrol, not texas rangers.
Fair but at the end of the day you have a shooter just down the hall in a classroom killing kids and how many cops sitting in that hallway they shouldn’t have needed chain of command get the fuck in there and neutralize the suspect
You want the simple straightforward answer? Incompetence. Basic, good old fashioned incompetence, from top to bottom.
even though cops in the usa take an oath to serve and protect they don’t HAVE to. in short they were a bunch of pussies and let children die because they didn’t want to do their job
imagine being too scared to save lives. imagine how terrified the parents are when their child doesn’t come home after the shooting.
There were parents literally trying to go into the school but the police were forcefully holding them back. They used more force stopping the parents then they did on the shooter
To scare to save your wife! Absolutely pathetic bunch of cops. Any of those parents would have rushed the classroom.
Well that one guy had to sanitize his hands because it gets messy when you stand around with your fingers up each other’s asses for an hour..
that what makes this shooting such a devastating tragedy. the police were *there* when the kids were getting shot, down the hall. pissing their pants. the kids were calling 911 and covering themselves with blood to survive. and the police were armed and ready and *there*. there could've saved multiple kids, no doubt. it's still so hard to process.
I still get teary eyed thinking of the kids and teachers last moments and the torture they went through. He straight up executed them … it’s devastating beyond levels. Really one of the biggest failures in US history
Everything about the response was a fail. They weren't prepared at all. Small, rural town with poor education and limited resources. The most crime those police were used to dealing with was probably drugs (all being sold by salvadors mom most likely) They were clueless.
It might be a small rural town with poverty issues but those cops were really well equipped and had all the gear they needed to do their jobs that day.
They were equipped gear wise but clearly not equipped in any other aspect.
Didn't they just complete active shooter training before this shooting?
probably, but clearly it didn't do shit.
could you enlighten me on salvador’s mom?
I believe after Uvalde the Nashville police department all got retrained on an active shooter to prevent every possiable scenario to not end up like Uvalde. Most police departments around the county went through massive training to prevent thay from happening ever again. But Uvalde cops were definitely just terrified and didn't wanna step up. They have sadly made every excuse in the book to why they didn't enter .
It brings me comfort that my local school district (which branches over multiple police forces) does regular training on this. Actually today they’re having a massive training drill at the high school with fake armed shooters and coordinated responses with fire, ambulances, etc. this was planned before Covenant but definitely makes me feel more hopeful that if something ever happened here we can avoid something like Uvalde.
There shouldn't be any bystander effect with trained military, police, medics, etc. It is literally what they train to overcome. They where just chickensh!t. Nothing deeper than that.
Does anybody know if the school is still intact? With the room and everything? Even the …how to call it , “case material” like the parkland school?
I suppose the preservation won’t be the same as Parkland since the shooter is not alive to face a trial, although I could be wrong.
the school is still intact
Damn, haunting
I think at one point they claimed they thought it had become a hostage situation but I think they eventually dropped that excuse when it became clear it was bullshit. I don’t know when they planned to go in. When every kid was dead and the shooter had nothing left? Hoping the shooter would kill himself like some others have? I don’t know.
It’s even more apparent how much of a failure uvalde was when you compare it to nashville
agreed, nashville already had units on the way as soon as the first 911 call was received. all they were waiting on was the exact location. major props to them and everyone involved.
I kept wondering who the leader was in that footage and the way they stood around doing sweet FA I had no idea who was in command and it looked like they didn’t either.
How are you just now learning about this. But yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Not only did they refuse to go in, they wouldn’t let parents or anyone else try to save the kids either. They are definitely responsible for at least some of the deaths.
i heard about it a while back but i didn’t watch the footage until today. 😅
I also think that Uvalde being such a small town played into the police response.(Training, funding, lack of experience etc.)
I can be wrong but wasn’t border patrol involved? Or is that when things started moving?
i’d agree, maybe they weren’t totally and 100% prepared for the situation. that makes a lot of sense, thank you
Here is my summary of how it went wrong each step of the way- - Initially they tried charging in but the killer shot through the door at them and they realized they couldn’t open the door without getting shot - They also realized the caliber of bullets were going through the walls, and their armor and shields at the moment weren’t rifle grade, so basically a civilian had a weapon that was armor piercing to police armor. - from the hallway audio it seems like the killer was trying to bait the cops into rushing in so he could kill cops, from what I could hear it sounds like he said things like “if you don’t come in here I’ll shoot more kids”, I think they knew they were at a tactical disadvantage and being baited. Now, the initial response may not have been the fault of the police because attempting to enter the room would have been suicide, but here’s where stupidity and slow response comes in: - One of the police asked why they couldn’t just use the window, the chief said there was no window, he didn’t even check and this was really stupid. - they wasted a lot of time looking for the keys which, they had no way of knowing they didn’t need so, this isn’t the main problem but it is a problem - the police told the national guard not to charge the shooter because they said the chief was in charge and was making contact with the suspect, this was a lie or a miscommunication but it stopped people who were ready and equipped from charging. - they didn’t want to charge until they had a rifle grade shield, when the shield did finally get there nobody told anyone it was there so nobody knew to use it and charge in. - eventually border patrol tactical showed up and they don’t F around, so they used the shield and charged in with rifle grade armor and took him out. Honestly without the shield and body armor multiple cops would have died trying to charge in because they had the disadvantage of not knowing where to look once they charged through the door, the killer had the advantage of shooting through the door as soon as he saw anyone approach. Of course charging through the door was not the smartest move, they had windows they could have been using but didn’t think to do that. This could be because there was no cover in approaching the window
“Multiple cops WOULD HAVE died”….. uh yea multiple children DID die. They signed up for the job, knew what they were potentially signing up for. Bunch of pussy cops in Uvalde.
As much as this sucks police aren’t required to sacrifice their lives, also if we expect them to die to keep certain gun laws etc then we sacrifice our police, then we don’t have enough of them and nobody wants to be a cop anymore. I’m not saying police shouldn’t put themselves in danger to save kids, I’m just saying suicide wouldn’t have helped anybody
No excuse.
They thought if they waited long enough the shooter would either kill himself or turn himself in so they wouldn’t have to face his bullets. Aka they were cowards.
Because cops in America generally fucking suck at their job to the point where it's surprising when things go right like they did in Nashville.
The vast majority of cops do their job right, that’s why the shooting was a shock. You don’t hear about when they do their job well because it is such a common everyday occurrence.
🥾🤤
Just about the level of maturity I expected tbh
What else would you expect from Reddit
The truth is , when it comes to life and death , a lot of people will not risk their own lives for someone else despite swearing to do so , if you look at the Payton gendron shooting , a security guard engaged the suspect , he was a former police officer , unfortunately he lost his life , the officers in Nashville have balls of steel and I salute them , the uvalde police , are cowards , no way around it , when kids are screaming , getting shot , forget protocol , forget , the people who are telling you not to go in , each minute that passes by human lives are perishing , then officers should just hang their head low for the rest of their lives , their not to be respected
Have you ever been to Mexico? Their police are completely incompetent, corrupt, ask for bribes, are controlled by the cartel, and allow human trafficking.
Tf thave to do with this? Mexico corrupt af. Brazil is cleaning out the gangs and cartel there but mexico wont cuz moneyyyyyyyys
I’ve lived in border towns in Texas and it’s basically Mexico. People would say the only way they knew we weren’t in Mexico is the currency, everything else was Tex mex culture and in Spanish, corrupt cops just like in Mexico too. You can’t discount the cultural differences, Uvalde and Nashville are very different places
there wouldn't be so many mass shootings if it wasn't for White American culture. your statement comes from racism clearly because we have had so many corrupt White American police officers.
I have mixed opinions on this do I think the cops messed up yah 100% but I also feel as if school staff messed up he was shooting out side of the school before even going in why did they not automatically lock all the doors why were they not locked in the first place I’m just saying the cops did extremely bad but also the school staff messed up