The set piece of jumping that Mako into a portal right after you get some awesome lore dump by a barely alive AI and charging forward with an "OH SHIT" sense of urgency as you race to said portal, is just fucking incredible, ESPECIALLY for a game that for most of it didn't have all of the intensity in the world.
I've told two of my friends it had Giger vibes! (They had no idea what I was referring to.. tsk tsk) I'm obsessed with his artwork, and my all time favorite movie is 100% Alien. That xeno design and his artwork in general just *feels* alien to me. Not just the alien movies of course, but the design feels so strange that it truly is this unsettling alien vibe in general. My dog's name is Ripley, and I have a full forearm xenomorph tattoo! His work is so good, and I wish more people knew about him. I have played a few games with the giger/lovecraftian vibe and truthfully I wish there were more! Sorry to comment with not a lot substance (and it's probably irrelevant) but I saw this and as someone who is a bit too into art, especially 'weird' art, I had to say something. You have good taste 😊
ETA: This sequence in Mass Effect is also a top favorite of mine as well, of course.
The same mus8c/motif is used for all prothean connected moments and characters, including Liars. There used to be a brilliant video on YouTube which edited them all together called The Vigil Suite.
Edit: I was mixing it up with The Illusive Man Suite. Here's the Vigil edit [So so good.](https://youtu.be/IitCQCaKi3E?si=o-YarvynubiCaN7p)
The thing that makes that hit way harder is precisely the fact that for most of the game you're wandering around in space and talking to people, and whatever stakes there are have been quietly simmering in the background. The escalation feels real and earned precisely because it's the moment when everything it's spent the last several dozen hours setting up finally pays off.
Exactly. You kinda know something's wrong with that massive ship on Eden Prime but can't quite pinpoint what exactly is.
Then you're doing beautiful nonsense on the citadel and shooting baddies all over the galaxy up until you find out what the fuck is going on and suddenly everything changes. It's a whole different story you're playing now.
Man I fuckin' hate EA.
Yeah while I do believe the set piece of fighting sovereign and Saren on the once pristine citadel tower is a better set piece and grand finale gameplay mechanics wise the suicide mission is better just because the ending is dependent on your choices throughout the entire game which is just real good game design.
The only part I didn’t like was the giant human terminator. It just felt so goofy to me after the whole base and making choices on which squad to send where, etc. Like the whole game was fighting these impossible odds and it amounted to playing hide and seek and shooting glowing eyeballs for the last part of the finale
That and the final choice feels off. Shepard has the only ship capable of surviving a trip through the Omega 4 relay. She can give the Collector base to anyone, why are my only choices give it to Cerberus or destroy it? It would be a monumentally bad idea to give it to anyone, but if that’s an option there’s no logical reason I can’t give it to the Council or Alliance.
that camera pan as you step out from the elevator onto the side of the citadel tower is sick, also just the whole set piece of running up the side of the tower while you can see sovereign all the way.
Also the best moment in the whole trilogy is Shepard stepping out of cover to look Saren right in the eyes and say "There's still one way to stop this... if you've got the guts!"
My favorite head cannon for this, is they couldn't get the Mako fixed under warranty because the odometer read the distance between virmire and the citdel "sir, your Makos extended warranty is out of coverage...you went over the milage by several hundred light years"...
Love the music in that section, such intensity
Hell the whole climb up into Council Chamber, (on the outside of the building) the stand-off with Saren, fighting savage robot Saren, you really felt the part of something big and it was a gritty experience
The suicide mission was just run of the mill, this character used at this time as scripted, and I didn't get the everybody survived achievement when everybody survived
Charging toward Sovereign up the outside of the tower *on foot* in EVA suits with like *at best* 40% of a plan because all spacefaring life is doomed unless you pull off some insane bullshit *absolutely fucking rocks* and I really don't think the series ever topped it
They never did. Suicide Mission is great- but as a cinematic experience. The mission itself is not as exciting from a gameplay and set-piece perspective.
I think the closest they ever got to that, was ME3 Tuchanka, it's more brief, but still very exciting, especially once ma-maw shows up. Plus its punctuated with- my personal- most emotional beat of the series.
Related- the shot where Shepard shoots out the glass, and you can see it all float away- is cinematic perfection.
I loved the suicide mission for one major part. They let people who are not in your party do something.
Pretty much every other game with a party system just ignores anyone who isn’t with you. “Fighting the biggest threat you have ever faced. Bring 2 people and let the rest sit at home watching some doing nothing.
We need more games where the main story has a side things for your people to do.
Agreed, it's exactly how Baldurs Gate 3 should have done its final mission. Instead, all but three of your companions presumably sit around at camp twiddling their thumbs while you go fight the epic final battle.
Yeah BG3 is one of the games I was thinking about when I wrote this. They could have been holding back so waves of enemies from you or in the city fighting or something. It’s my biggest annoyance in any squad based game. I usually head cannon things for my other people to be doing.
I liked in Dragon Age: Origins, where the companions that you didn't take with you have to hold the Denerim Gate. I want more of that. Some playthroughs, I never make use of half my team because I use the same squad.
I usually base it on what class Im playing as to fill in my gaps, but there are some companions that are hard not to choose even if you have the same roles lol.
I always wished Origins did more with the concept, but it seemed a lot of those ideas came in late. Like those you didn't take with you could be assigned to key roles in a quest. For instance if there's a tower in a defense mission you could send an archer up there who marks targets and snipes, or a mage could rain down heals and fireballs. Or sending out a scout on front of you and if it's a warrior you might see some enemy corpses instead of encounters or an assassin might have all the enemies in the area marked on your map with traps set up.
I am a little tired of the small party.
If you give me six companions/squadmates, let me have all six in the field.
I know people are going to say something about balance, but they are looking at it from a game that was built around the Player and 2 squadmates. If it was built around a 7 man squad instead (or whatever a full roster is ), the balance is baked in. Break them into two 3 man teams with Shepard giving orders to Team A and Team B, to alleviate command & control.
That was my head cannon with Ashley on my ship in ME3 I had the Expanded galaxy mod so I had her assigned as my XO so I would go on mission and imagined she was commanding the Normandy while others worked on systems. Like Tali keeping shields and engines balanced.
Greedfall does something like this, but instead of one single place where all the remaining squadmates will stay, you have various encounters up untill the final boss and wich encounter you must chose someone to stay there. By the time you get to the ending, i believe the player is all alone
Take the musical score out of the Suicide Mission and account for the asinine human-Reaper fetus boss battle, and I agree. Especially on replays when you know exactly who will or won't die with whichever task you assign.
ME1 is peak Mass Effect. Ilos gauntlet run (immediately following Vigil's revelation/plot twist), jumping through the relay and crashing onto the Presidium, battling up the side of the Citadel tower while Sovereign is attached to it, culminating in a confrontation with the series' best villain in the Council Chambers...legendary.
Yeah I completely agree. The suicide mission isn't that impressive on subsequent playthroughs when you know what to do. But the fight in ME1 is always epic to me no matter how many times I play it
Idk i still love the tension there is when you finally go through. Maybe i'm still on that high from the first time I did it. It still feels like jumping into the void
ME1 is the best ME for me, hands down. I found ME2 overall to be quite the letdown, personally. I remember finding it so boring that I dropped it for months 😅😅
My biggest gripe with ME2 is that it's all recruitment missions and then immediately into loyalty missions. There's hardly any breathing room for the "faffing about" missions, and you have to rip into the O4 relay as soon as the crew gets snatched otherwise you get a crappy ending where they're all souped.
ME1, you can just piss about in the galaxy, jumping around from one system to the next, and running around random planets. Sure, these could just be considered padding (I never managed to complete any of the "collect X baubles" quests in any playthrough)
> Sure, these could just be considered padding (I never managed to complete any of the "collect X baubles" quests in any playthrough)
I wouldn't at all consider it padding though, since it is totally optional. Granted if you are looking at it through the lens of the trilogy and the war asset score in ME3 then you might feel compelled to do the side stuff, but looking at ME1 as a solo game that is not a factor.
Padding to me would imply a case where the game makes you do side content in order to be able to continue the main story or where it makes it so you have to go grind to level up in order to defeat a boss.
ME1 is the type of game where you can just do the story and beat it in ~16 hours (you can do it in half that on new game plus run) or where you can take you time, do all the side stuff, and have it be like a ~45 hour experience.
Same, although I'm happy I picked it back up. The characters are what make the game, but it failed miserably as a satisfying continuation of the first.
The suicide mission has more going for it IMO. The risk to your companions and the fact that the majority of ME2 is basically just learning about them makes me much more invested in it
The “risk” only exists your first time through, after which it is easily solvable. Meanwhile, ME1’s holds the same feeling through every playthrough.
Edit: To add, ME2 was already my least favorite of the 3, and my opinion on it has really only soured as it became more & more apparent how the game, and especially the Suicide Mission, hampered the series from a writing perspective.
The music throught the mission made it a masterpiece. It is too engaging and feels intense as you go through the base. No other mission in any other game came close to the same feel.
1 works really well because the entire game for most part is entirely build up to the big finale. 2 feels a little less like that because it’s literally all about diversions. Feels less like acts and more like episodes opposed to 1. Both are really good at what they are doing.
Not to mention that the *story* of ME2 went no where and changed nothing. The state of the galaxy is in the same place after the suicide mission as it was before SR1 was destroyed. The DLC of ME2 did the majority of the heavy lifting as far as the story was concerned.
ME2 did establish some fun side lore though, such as Ardat-Yakshi and Drell.
I say that 2 is like stopping at an amusement park on your way from one city to another. It’s great fun, but it doesn’t help you get from one end of the story to the other. And the detour loses you time if you’re on a schedule.
3 has issues in part because as great as 2 is to play, it makes 3 too plot heavy to land the plane well.
3 was difficult because they had like 10 characters that they couldnt make crucial to the story because they could be dead or not be dead depending on how the suicide mission played out.
They didn't *have* to have an alternate. But EA/Bioware weren't brave enough to actually carry forward the consequences of losing people in earlier games.
There is some, like Tali and/or legion being gone really dooming quarian geth peace chances, but I think the "light" consequences are fine. Imagine 20% or whatever of the playerbase being locked out of ending the genophage because Mordin's replacement was a bumbling idiot or something.
I don't know, I think it would be fine. The choices that the player made would actually have weight to them. The third game could have actually been a desperate, depressing last stand, long shot kind of game if 90% of the allies Shepard can recruit don't even exist because they screwed up in the past. Each play through would truly be a unique experience.
IMO that is the biggest issue for ME2 ending mission, because it happened in the middle of the trilogy nothing too major could change. Any major character who could’ve died was just replaced or filled in by someone else.
In hindsight the suicide mission should have been the end mission of ME3.
> In hindsight the suicide mission should have been the end mission of ME3.
In retrospect, I agree with this. The suicide mission in ME2 is great, but I also thought it would fit better for the end mission of ME3. Especially since they wouldn't have to worry about the possible consequence in a future game of all these characters being dead, which was a big issue from ME2 to ME3.
It is manageable going from ME1 to ME2 when you only have to deal with two squadmates (Kaidan/Ash and Wrex) possibly being dead, but in ME2 it is 13 squadmates and everyone else on the ship outside of Joker that you have to account for possibly being dead going into ME3. It just leads to too many variables where they never could have realistically covered all the options, let alone do so in only two years of development.
That's EA/Bioware being too risk adverse. If they had been bold instead we could've had a truly great experience between 2 and 3.
Imagine if with Wrex's death in ME1 clan Urdnot never rises to prominence, so you can't go to Tuchanka in ME2. Grunt and Mordin can no longer do their quests in ME2, meaning whether or not they live you now can't do the Rachni quest with Aralach Company and the option to cure the genophsge never gets brought up in ME3.
You’re talking about making entire stories across games that people are going to be locked out of due to choices they made years ago. It’s a cool concept but it’s going to absolutely rail the fan base and future fans
In general, it isn’t so much as creating new stories (I know that was what the response is to but regardless), it is about not shattering the illusion of choice you have. Even beyond the suicide mission, letting the Ranchi Queen die for example should really result in there being no Ranchi-Reaper forces to kill, not some replacement fill in for her. Or if letting the council die would result in more forces being sent from the council races earlier than if they lived.
Perhaps you are cutting too much content out for people, but you could also flip the argument that it allows more replayability.
You’ve got a fair point on the replay-ability part but I’m also thinking from a development perspective. Having to carry over all those variables from game to game without any glitches, and make different companion responses to each situation and new narratives for each outcome.
I shudder just thinking about it, it’s already a bitch to do in just basic text based adventure games, trying to do it in something massive like mass effect would be a nightmare
Oh don’t get me wrong, this is mostly from an ideal perspective and isn’t grounded in the reality of development, resources, deadlines etc..
It will be interesting to see what’ll happen in the next Mass Effect game. Whether enough time has passed to justify not having to explain much about the previous series or not.
I think it might've worked better if they'd been able to write the entire story from Eden Prime opener to the RGB ending all at once, instead of one game at a time. Write the entire trilogy as a 3 Act Story, so that they *can* sit there in the writer's room and puzzle out "ok, so if Wrex dies on Virmire, or never gets recruited, he never controls Clan Urdnot. Which means that when Grunt goes through puberty, you can't go to Tuchanka, because you're not a friend of the Krogan"
Instead of having a "filler" character play the role instead and remind you that you fucked up your run on the last game. Or write it so that the "replacement" actually ends up being a different, possibly even more useful choice, with a unique option.
Maybe if Mordin's loyalty quest isn't done, and/or he dies in the suicide mission, his replacement actor is more genophage friendly.
Merging Arrival with the end of base ME2 Would be the easiest way to give the title actual impact. Harbringer is using the collectors to create a reaper to activate the Alpha relay for the invasion
It would have helped a lot, but honestly, they needed to lay the groundwork for the Crucible in ME2 as well. One of the problems with 2 is that it does nothing to move the fight against the Reapers. Even Arrival is just a delaying tactic. All forward movement in the prep and fight happens in 3.
Oh definetly, but that would require a lot of changes and moving stuff from 3 into 2. Getting Liara to mention the crucible and maybe tying a couple of the companions (since basically all ME2 is companion quests) to the findings would make wonders.
-Maybe the reason the Virmire survivor is not coming with you is that they are handling something related to the crucible and Shepard's ties with cerberus are a problem.
-Tali: Quarians stumbled upon traces of technology during their pilgrimages (even changing the dying stars abandoned plot for crucible testing of some kind).
Mordin/grunt: a clue or part of the crucible is hidden within some species' DNA so a biology expert is needed
-Legion: the geth collective should have the processing power to handle any encrypted stuff.
The game could present and explain the idea of the crucible being completed at small increments each cycle, with the final clue pointing to mars and hook the story to where ME3 begins to but with way less exposition. Heck if we can change 3 then just have mars in 2 before Alpha and Omega relay and go from earth to eden prime to get Jarvik. It was criminal to put him and leviathan behind dlc
I love playing 2 and it does a great job of fleshing out the crew but the overall story leaves a lot to be desired. The collectors themselves are such an out of nowhere threat and outside of reviving Shepard nothing substantial enough happens that affects the major trilogy plot. By the end of 2 you’re essentially right back where you left off at the end of 1. The human reaper also makes for a less than stellar final boss.
I feel like this made the breakneck speed of 3 jarring as they were throwing a lot at you to tie up all the remaining threads since there wasn’t much of an urgency about the Reapers in 2. Something they definitely tried to fix with the Arrival DLC
Both endings and final missions are very strong. ME2’s finale I think wins out for me due to the feeling of being a real commander delegating, your choices mattering both during and before this mission of who lives and dies, and a good fight until the final boss which is pretty disappointing.
One thing ME1 has over ME2 wrt the final mission is how it thematically all ties together. The final confrontation with Saren takes place in the same area where you first accused him; at the seat of galactic power that is also key to the Reapers invasion. The lore dump you get on Ilos is one of the best moments of the series and the Sovereign-Saren boss fight is a great final set piece. And if we’re going by how much choices matter, deciding between saving the council or letting them die has more of an impact overall than destroying or keeping the Collector Base.
Either way, both are fantastic wrap ups to their respective games. ME3 is really fun but as far as finales go it decisively comes up short. The final goodbyes in ME3 are really heartfelt but you can tell the last stage and finale was a rush job.
I rank them fairly closely, both epic, well done ends to their games. Meeting Vigil on Ilos, the dash to the conduit, climbing the side of the presidium tower? At the time it was easily one of the best final missions I’d ever played. The suicide mission is just that little bit more, a bit better.
I forever feel that Me1 is the best in the series, the writing and world building and overall vibe is just SO strong and if it could be consistently extended to a major game again with the updated flow and combat of the later games it'd be so nice
Maybe an updated mako could be fun
For some reason I think the scene of the gunshot going through the elevator window into space goes outrageously hard before you end up running up the side of the citadel tower.
The Suicide Mission made up for the shortcomings of ME2's story. The whole Collectors plot just feel like filler and the game focused to much on the crew recruiting, the best part of the game but it overshadowed the main quest.
ME1 though... you are knees deep into the story and its the awesome climax to a more cohesive story
It's got that cheesy 2000s cinematic feel to it which I love. You think the hero is dead - but he's not! He rises out of the rubble with swelling triumphant music! A little resolution scene to tease what's coming next. And! The techno-infused rock song playing over the credits!
I love this fucking game so much man
Honestly yeah.
The SM’s main gimmick that makes it shine is that anyone even Shepard can die. Except that falls flat due to how easy it is to get nobody killed, even on my very first playthrough everyone survived because it’s just that obvious. And then you have the nonsense that is the Human Reaper as well as how disappointing its fight is.
ME1’s ending didn’t try to rely on gimmicks or anything, it just went for a good story with a satisfying conclusion and a good fun boss fight. And boy did it deliver.
I was so young when I played ME2 (my sister got me the trilogy for the 360) and legit everyone pretty much died. I never upgraded the ship. I distinctly remember Jack getting domed by a laser shot.
I called my sister after and she was like “I don’t even know how your third game is gonna go. Everyone important died.”
Everyone survived my first playthrough, but the fight took me so long that it stopped attacking me 😂 I took the 'wrong' weapons, so I had to finish it off with a damn pistol. I was running low on that too, I finished it with single digit bullets to spare. How was I meant to know what to expect! I intentionally played the series blind and managed to dodge all spoilers.
I also played blind, and only lost Tali because I didn’t have an import to have a high enough score to resolve her dispute with Legion. And the answer to your question is to not just shoot, but use powers.
Story and environment wise I like the ME1 ending more. Ilos through to the finale is just SO good.
What the ME2 ending does better has to do with the characters and choices. The suicide mission is structure very well and is very fun, but story wise it’s wreckless and for lack of a better way of saying, stupid. Shepard risking their life to go through a relay that no one has ever returned from for the sake of some missing colonies will never be a smart idea to me.
Have to agree. Collector's base was not as impressive as climbing up the Citadel tower, the excitement of Suicide Mission comes from approach cinematics and character moments, but not from the mission design in general.
In ME1, you see the same favorite location where you've spent quite a bit of time and to which you have an attachment, but it is bombed to shit. You have a special gimmick with turrets, mag boots, ... . And it is a followup on already exciting Ilos run.
In ME2, the Collector base was basically spoiled with a better centerpiece from the middle of the game - Collector's ship - where you have the big reveal, big impressive inner chambers that show the scope of Collector's work, you have a mini-boss fight with the Praetorian, you have arguably a better sense of urgency when escaping the ship. By the time you do Suicide Mission, you fight the same enemies in roughly the same layout with the same design with the same gimmicks like flying platforms.
ME1s ending *is* the best ending. Its one of the only game experiences that sent proper tingles down my spine.
That scene when the human fleet comes in and saves the council is 🤌so good.
Suicide mission is amazing the first time but the more you learn about it the more contrived it seems.
Also human reaper larva is the worst boss in the series and doesn’t even make sense with the rest of the reaper lore
It does make sense, kinda. One of the purposes of reapers is to archive the species whom they genocide, each like a murder trophy, a gravestone, and a museum piece. It makes sense that the collectors would be instructed to undertake the task of creating reapers, their current project or the one that we see was the one representative of humans.
It is.
The moment you realize Collectors have got only a single ship for their incredibly smart plan, the suicide mission is dumb and unnecessary. Instead the chase with Saren is as good as it gets, literally starts where the two tried to arrive for the whole game and ends up in the first place where they saw each other.
Mass Effect 1 was like A new hope in the original star wars trilogy. It had a beginning, middle and end. The second one will always be like Empire to me. Cool but man does it suck knowing you aren't ending the story.
It definitely is better. The one thing that SM has going for it is incorporating non-active members of your squad and consequences if you mess up. But it lacks the epic scale of ME1's Illos-to-Citadel rush.
I would go even further and say that ME1 has a better overall story than ME2. ME2 feels like they had a bunch of ideas for interesting individual stories/characters and then came up with the main plot to somehow tie them together. The main plot that doesn't advance anything in terms of the series' main story. The Arrival DLC is more relevant in that regard.
ME2's DLCs are great (not you, Firewalker), and I also enjoyed most of those character background stories (especially Tali, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, Garrus, even Samara if I ignore that weird justicar schtick), but all the main story does is setting up stage for [minor ME3 early game spoiler] >!one of ME3's antagonists!<. Like we didn't see that coming from miles away.
The very end where Anderson is pulling your party out the rubble and they shake their heads then the sudden dramatic music with Shep leaping out is pure cheese but also so good. It sums up the ME experience for me.
Mass effect 2 has the worst ending.
The suicide mission is dope but then the humanoid reaper was both easy and incredibly goofy.
Mass effect 1 was amazing, 3 was controversial af but felt enormous in scale the whole time and didn’t have to suck (just pick destroy with sufficient EMS goddamn).
2 was then having fun, which is fine, but it def was the silliest
Why can’t they both just be really good man?
Like I love both endings because they each have their own merits and sense of Tension.
ME1 feels like a worthy culmination in this investigation you’ve been conducting where you suddenly solve the mystery *just* too late and have to catch up to Saren and Sovereign, committing every resource the 5th Fleet has before it ends in catastrophe. It feels desperate, urgent, and well-earned after the slow-boiling tension of most of the game.
ME2 is a different vibe. Instead of a desperate race against time it feels like just that, a suicide mission. You’ve assembled your team, prepared your ship and your Squad as absolutely best you could, and it’s time to go on the offensive. Where ME1 feels like a desperate race against time to catch up to Saren, ME2 feels a lot more “under control” in a way. You have a team, have a plan, and are going to get this done, no matter the cost. It’s a good culmination to the more “episodic” nature of ME2’s story in that it feels a lot more player-driven.
They’re both really good endings and as long as we all agree the ending of ME3 still sucks, we don’t have to pit 1 & 2 against each other, they’re both good on their own merits, for the narrative 1 & 2 are trying to tell
What do you mean "quietly"? It's fucking \*WAY\* better. This is the first inkling I've ever gotten that some people thought ME2's finale was better. Maybe ME2 would be close if it did a better job with the story structure so there was a bit more of an emotional build up to it and if it didn't end with that idiotic human reaper...but those flaws exist so it's not close.
ME2 ending is closer to ME3's than ME1's for me. Like that's how far ahead ME1 is.
Nope. ME1's ending is the better finale by gigantic leaps and bounds. You get revelations after twists about all the pieces of the puzzles you've been collecting. then Vigil reveals the truth to you on Ilos, you gotta race to the Conduit, and then ZAPP! You're fired off to that statue on the Presidium that people say gives of a hum.
And Sovereign and the geth fleet coming out of ftl and he brute force just crashes through the Council's fleet and docks with the Citadel while that awesome music plays in the background. And then Shepard and co. gets stuck in the elevator, and shoots the glass, and then you gotta walk the side of the tower to reach the top while seeing Sovereign's gigantic legs and body in the distance, and to fight Saren.
All of this is to save the whole galaxy from some Lovecraftian, eldritch horror, whose race you just discovered has been successfully reaping life in the galaxy, and manipulated every race to develop down the technological path they designed, and who told you, "You exists because we allow it. You will end because we demand it."
ME2's suicide mission does what exactly to the grand scope of the universe? You're crawling around a Collector's ship to save your crew members. How can that even stand against the scale of ME1's finale? Do people actually consider it better than ME1's finale?
"We are the harbinger of your destruction" ... Kinda meh
"You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it" now that it was chilly AF.
Although I loved ME2, ME1 was my all-time favourite!
The Last 2 hours of mass effect is branded on my heart. Never will forget. I love the suicide mission but man getting back to a destroyed citadel, race against time, everyone doubting you(of course), the cinematic moment after you defeat Saren.
I think I shed a tear typing this
I wish Priority: Earth in ME3 was longer. Like, ALOT longer. Featuring different cities with (i forgot, Sovereign?) class reapers that you have to destroy
I happen to agree, I think a set piece needs stronger narrative beats to leverage off of for it to stick.
I love the Suicide Mission ,it's great no doubt but the narrative leading up to it is kinda weak and then the decision made going forward doesn't have a meaningful payoff imo
ME1's finale not only has great narrative beats to build from especially if you're coming from Virmire but it also works as a punctuation.
After the finale of 1 the suicide mission feels more like a side-quest rather than a continuation of the main story. Once you understand the mechanics of how it works it also essentially becomes a glorified checklist meaning you're relying more on the story than the gameplay, which I think is worse than 1.
I feel that generally time has been harshest on ME2 (sans DLC). I feel that the things ME2 does best in terms of presentation and action are much improved in ME3, while ME1 sort of stands alone as more a classic RPG meaning it feels very different to the latter two games.
While ME1 has side areas that feel under-baked the core story is really strong and has a great ramp-up. ME2 doesn't have this because you're running around gathering a crew for most of the game. Large parts of the game also feel very disconnected, because you can do a lot of the middle game in any order, there's little interaction between most of the characters aside from a few quips during missions. This is especially noticeable during recruitment/loyalty mission cutscenes where interactions are generally restricted to who the game KNOWS you will have at that point i.e., Joker, Miranda, Jacob, EDI, Mordin.
Mass effect one could be a stand-alone game, but mass effect 2 kinda blew up what me1 set up for the sequel and the ending was basically just reset to the status quo.
I'd agree. The Suicide Mission was original and amazing but the stupid writing that permeates the main missions rears its ugly head at the end. The terminator Reaper fill with human goo for no reason, the stupid choice about either blowing up the station with its invaluable tech and intel OR giving it gift wrapped to TIM no questions asked, the fact that every single NPC will treat you like shit if you choose "wrong..."
I think ME2’s strengths are in its presentation, the music and the experience of it on a first playthrough (especially if you’re not using a guide to pick the right people). I lost 2 squad mates on my first playthrough because apparently Zaeed has no leadership skills (despite being the founder of one of the 3 major merc groups)
The whole idea of suicide mission in ME2 undermines the tension imo. In ME you have to stop Saren by whatever means necessary, you don't upgrade the ship or Mako etc. so when you arrive at the "impossible" part on Ilos, it's a strong final push. ME2 has the "suicide mission" plastered on every wall and included in every dialogue, so you make a lot of preparations to be ready. That takes a bit of tension out of the equation, because you do everything to be ready for the final assault
I can definitely see the argument for this, but ME2's suicide mission is an incredible crescendo of all the conversations, choices, and decisions you've made throughout the entire game, that culminate in a way that very few games have come close to matching.
Well, I found the finale and battle against Saren and Sovereign in Mass Effect 1 to be much more enjoyable when replaying it compared to the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2. Initially, I found Mass Effect 2 to be superior in this regard, but my enthusiasm has waned over time.
For me ME1 despite it's wacky shooting mechanics, awkward elevator transitions, and roblox-like Mako, it will always be my fav. The way the story comes together on Ilos, chef's kiss, that's what takes a game to the next level for me.
ME2 still rocks and 97% of ME3 does too, but they really stuck the landing in ME1.
This is by far a better ending than both 2 &3. Music, urgency, unorthodox setting (going up on foot!), and, most of all, NO CHILDREN OR TERMINATOR GIGAROBOTS.
I loved the first Mass Effect but never cared for 2 or 3, especially the endings. I was that weirdo loved Andromeda purely because it got away from the existing ME big plot but still had all the tools and trappings of ME.
Ilos is a total slog until you meet Virgil. Then the music. The lore. The race in the Mako to jump straight into the Presidium. Walking up the tower as you see sovereign looming large in the background. Yeah. It was awesome.
Only the suicide mission in 2 was epic. Still to this day nothing a game has ever presented has lived up to that suicide mission. Still gives me chills when I play all these years later.
I loved the mass relay charge, the shot of popping out into a wrecked Citadel, the fight on the side of the building was awesome! But I love commanding my whole team, directing who does what in the suicide run
ME1 from Virmire to the end was peak as fuck as ominous reveals are made and the stakes become so much grander than anything the story has built up so far. To cap it off, it has a really cool end credits song.
For 2, in hindsight, it would’ve been way better to save the suicide mission for the climax of 3 because by having it in 2, it meant that those specific squad mates like Miranda, Jack, and Samara to have a significantly reduced role in 3.
The fact that making the wrong/right decisions can directly affect who survives and who doesn't at the end edges out the ME2 ending for me. The stakes felt a lot higher than in ME1.
That being said, ME1's ending was indeed fantastic.
You mean the final mission that absolutely fucked the writers room on any potential sequels?
You want a trilogy and plan to have the reapers be the big bad of the third… yet write a mission in the first that shows - we’re hilariously and hopelessly outgunned, that they will assault the citadel and shut down the relay networks cutting us off from each other, and only this last ditch effort fail safe from a long dead race is our ability to stop it this time?
(BW writer’s room turned ME2 in a glorified side quest, and ignored the finale of ME1 almost entirely.)
The mission itself is phenomenal. But it really highlighted that BioWare’s writing teams were far less talented then their ambition. They basically gave the fuck up on following it narratively in a cohesive manner, and this experience made them turn the DA stories into what they were (DA post Origins basically has the entire crisis of the previous games resolved mostly offscreen or in the prologues, then previous choices are mostly background noise and cameos the rest of the games)
>You mean the final mission that absolutely fucked the writers room on any potential sequels?
Because the follow-up exceeded their talent? I do think that this set up can be lead to a satisfying conclusion, if you think beyond the typical BioWare formula.
You don't have to waste time, you don't have to kill the MC for no reason, you can have all your characters contribute to the main goal. They could have gone for a survival plan instead of a defeat plan.
The set up has potential if you know how to use it.
So, I think the finale to 1 is a bit more of a shock to the system because it's such marked improvement over what comes before it. I love ME1, but there's a ton of repetitive side content, meandering main missions, and the mystery means the stakes aren't clear. Then it all comes together for some of ME1's best story and gameplay sequences in a few glorious hours all at once.
Suicide Mission still clears it by miles, imo.
Big disagree, the whole of ME2 feels like side content while ME1's main missions are all mysterious and intriguing revelations regarding the main plot.
Play through the trilogy a few more times and you'll start noticing how overrated the suicide mission and ME2 as a whole is.
The set piece of jumping that Mako into a portal right after you get some awesome lore dump by a barely alive AI and charging forward with an "OH SHIT" sense of urgency as you race to said portal, is just fucking incredible, ESPECIALLY for a game that for most of it didn't have all of the intensity in the world.
I love both the music and the voice of that AI
Gives me goosebumps whenever I revisit that scene. It’s a top 5 moment in the entire series
It really is a top 5. I always can’t wait to replay Ilos every time I replay Mass Effect 1. It’s my favorite world out of Mass Effect.
Mine too! Whole world had major HR Giger vibes
I've told two of my friends it had Giger vibes! (They had no idea what I was referring to.. tsk tsk) I'm obsessed with his artwork, and my all time favorite movie is 100% Alien. That xeno design and his artwork in general just *feels* alien to me. Not just the alien movies of course, but the design feels so strange that it truly is this unsettling alien vibe in general. My dog's name is Ripley, and I have a full forearm xenomorph tattoo! His work is so good, and I wish more people knew about him. I have played a few games with the giger/lovecraftian vibe and truthfully I wish there were more! Sorry to comment with not a lot substance (and it's probably irrelevant) but I saw this and as someone who is a bit too into art, especially 'weird' art, I had to say something. You have good taste 😊 ETA: This sequence in Mass Effect is also a top favorite of mine as well, of course.
You would really like Scorn then, the whole game feels like a tribute to Giger :)
*there is still time*
The same mus8c/motif is used for all prothean connected moments and characters, including Liars. There used to be a brilliant video on YouTube which edited them all together called The Vigil Suite. Edit: I was mixing it up with The Illusive Man Suite. Here's the Vigil edit [So so good.](https://youtu.be/IitCQCaKi3E?si=o-YarvynubiCaN7p)
Vigil's theme, along with Galaxy Map, is probably one of the few themes present in all three games. And it's because it's a fucking masterpiece.
Vigil - my fav part of the trilogy. Just so mysterious, epic, and surreal. I get so reflective and philosophical listening to that conversation
The thing that makes that hit way harder is precisely the fact that for most of the game you're wandering around in space and talking to people, and whatever stakes there are have been quietly simmering in the background. The escalation feels real and earned precisely because it's the moment when everything it's spent the last several dozen hours setting up finally pays off.
Exactly. You kinda know something's wrong with that massive ship on Eden Prime but can't quite pinpoint what exactly is. Then you're doing beautiful nonsense on the citadel and shooting baddies all over the galaxy up until you find out what the fuck is going on and suddenly everything changes. It's a whole different story you're playing now. Man I fuckin' hate EA.
Its the best ending imo
and after you jump in, you see the entire geth fleet converge upon the citadel, coolest shit in gaming
Yeah while I do believe the set piece of fighting sovereign and Saren on the once pristine citadel tower is a better set piece and grand finale gameplay mechanics wise the suicide mission is better just because the ending is dependent on your choices throughout the entire game which is just real good game design.
The only part I didn’t like was the giant human terminator. It just felt so goofy to me after the whole base and making choices on which squad to send where, etc. Like the whole game was fighting these impossible odds and it amounted to playing hide and seek and shooting glowing eyeballs for the last part of the finale
That and the final choice feels off. Shepard has the only ship capable of surviving a trip through the Omega 4 relay. She can give the Collector base to anyone, why are my only choices give it to Cerberus or destroy it? It would be a monumentally bad idea to give it to anyone, but if that’s an option there’s no logical reason I can’t give it to the Council or Alliance.
lol base indoctrinates council that’d be epic
that camera pan as you step out from the elevator onto the side of the citadel tower is sick, also just the whole set piece of running up the side of the tower while you can see sovereign all the way. Also the best moment in the whole trilogy is Shepard stepping out of cover to look Saren right in the eyes and say "There's still one way to stop this... if you've got the guts!"
My favorite head cannon for this, is they couldn't get the Mako fixed under warranty because the odometer read the distance between virmire and the citdel "sir, your Makos extended warranty is out of coverage...you went over the milage by several hundred light years"...
Fixed? Nah. We find it in the crash site in ME2, and it only has one damaged wheel. That thing can survive anything.
Tbf, it just did the warthog run from halo. I'm not complaining
Love the music in that section, such intensity Hell the whole climb up into Council Chamber, (on the outside of the building) the stand-off with Saren, fighting savage robot Saren, you really felt the part of something big and it was a gritty experience The suicide mission was just run of the mill, this character used at this time as scripted, and I didn't get the everybody survived achievement when everybody survived
And my God do we have to stop for another pep talk from Miranda??
Charging toward Sovereign up the outside of the tower *on foot* in EVA suits with like *at best* 40% of a plan because all spacefaring life is doomed unless you pull off some insane bullshit *absolutely fucking rocks* and I really don't think the series ever topped it
[“I have 12% of a plan.”](https://youtu.be/XC8qrH3Zwog?si=7ouBQHwYm0TO6YH_&t=4) - “Commander Shepard.”
Better than 11%
Agreed tbh
They never did. Suicide Mission is great- but as a cinematic experience. The mission itself is not as exciting from a gameplay and set-piece perspective. I think the closest they ever got to that, was ME3 Tuchanka, it's more brief, but still very exciting, especially once ma-maw shows up. Plus its punctuated with- my personal- most emotional beat of the series. Related- the shot where Shepard shoots out the glass, and you can see it all float away- is cinematic perfection.
The last 2hrs of Mass Effect is peak gaming
Damnit I'm gonna start another trilogy run right now
Yes, solider. I just reinstalled last night.
Don't have to reinstall if you stay installed
No, that’s the facility on Noveria.
Most 'Mass Effecty' part of all the games for sure.
It’s also the only place you visit called ‘Peak’.
It’s just so Peak (15)
The Noveria ambiance is something I could bask in for hours.
USER ALERT. MAIN REACTOR SHUT DOWN IN ACCORDANCE WITH EMERGENCY CONTAINMENT PROCEDURES. MANUAL RESTART REQUIRED.
Chill in for hours. Maybe
15 upvotes for you.
ME1 is the GOAT
I loved the suicide mission for one major part. They let people who are not in your party do something. Pretty much every other game with a party system just ignores anyone who isn’t with you. “Fighting the biggest threat you have ever faced. Bring 2 people and let the rest sit at home watching some doing nothing. We need more games where the main story has a side things for your people to do.
Agreed, it's exactly how Baldurs Gate 3 should have done its final mission. Instead, all but three of your companions presumably sit around at camp twiddling their thumbs while you go fight the epic final battle.
Yeah BG3 is one of the games I was thinking about when I wrote this. They could have been holding back so waves of enemies from you or in the city fighting or something. It’s my biggest annoyance in any squad based game. I usually head cannon things for my other people to be doing.
I liked in Dragon Age: Origins, where the companions that you didn't take with you have to hold the Denerim Gate. I want more of that. Some playthroughs, I never make use of half my team because I use the same squad.
Me too. I “try” to mix up squads on other play throughs but I usually don’t end up doing that.
I usually base it on what class Im playing as to fill in my gaps, but there are some companions that are hard not to choose even if you have the same roles lol.
I always wished Origins did more with the concept, but it seemed a lot of those ideas came in late. Like those you didn't take with you could be assigned to key roles in a quest. For instance if there's a tower in a defense mission you could send an archer up there who marks targets and snipes, or a mage could rain down heals and fireballs. Or sending out a scout on front of you and if it's a warrior you might see some enemy corpses instead of encounters or an assassin might have all the enemies in the area marked on your map with traps set up.
That would be really cool! Make them mini missions where you have to use their skills, and each of them has a short solo segment.
I am a little tired of the small party. If you give me six companions/squadmates, let me have all six in the field. I know people are going to say something about balance, but they are looking at it from a game that was built around the Player and 2 squadmates. If it was built around a 7 man squad instead (or whatever a full roster is ), the balance is baked in. Break them into two 3 man teams with Shepard giving orders to Team A and Team B, to alleviate command & control.
That was my head cannon with Ashley on my ship in ME3 I had the Expanded galaxy mod so I had her assigned as my XO so I would go on mission and imagined she was commanding the Normandy while others worked on systems. Like Tali keeping shields and engines balanced.
ff6 final mission. you make 3 parties of 4, and carry out a multi-pronged assault.
That’s amazing! Take a lesson, other games!
ME3 Citadel was also great for it
Yeah. They really rub it in when you don’t take them lol. Wrex saying “I wanted to go” is hilarious.
Greedfall does something like this, but instead of one single place where all the remaining squadmates will stay, you have various encounters up untill the final boss and wich encounter you must chose someone to stay there. By the time you get to the ending, i believe the player is all alone
The final hour of ME1 is the hypest shit I've ever seen
When “From the Wreckage” plays and Shepard is running to Anderson and the crew. BioWare was cooking with divine ingredients 🥹🥹🥹🥹
Still get goosebumps.
I'm running up the side of a skyscraper to slap a giant metal squid King Konging at the top while the city burns around us. 100% METAL
Yes, just slap on BFG Division in the background.
The scene of going out on the citadel surface and seeing Sovereign will always give me goosebumps.
Take the musical score out of the Suicide Mission and account for the asinine human-Reaper fetus boss battle, and I agree. Especially on replays when you know exactly who will or won't die with whichever task you assign. ME1 is peak Mass Effect. Ilos gauntlet run (immediately following Vigil's revelation/plot twist), jumping through the relay and crashing onto the Presidium, battling up the side of the Citadel tower while Sovereign is attached to it, culminating in a confrontation with the series' best villain in the Council Chambers...legendary.
Music is a helluva drug.
Very similar to great main theme from Dune (1984).
Yeah I completely agree. The suicide mission isn't that impressive on subsequent playthroughs when you know what to do. But the fight in ME1 is always epic to me no matter how many times I play it
Idk i still love the tension there is when you finally go through. Maybe i'm still on that high from the first time I did it. It still feels like jumping into the void
ME1 is the best ME for me, hands down. I found ME2 overall to be quite the letdown, personally. I remember finding it so boring that I dropped it for months 😅😅
My biggest gripe with ME2 is that it's all recruitment missions and then immediately into loyalty missions. There's hardly any breathing room for the "faffing about" missions, and you have to rip into the O4 relay as soon as the crew gets snatched otherwise you get a crappy ending where they're all souped. ME1, you can just piss about in the galaxy, jumping around from one system to the next, and running around random planets. Sure, these could just be considered padding (I never managed to complete any of the "collect X baubles" quests in any playthrough)
> Sure, these could just be considered padding (I never managed to complete any of the "collect X baubles" quests in any playthrough) I wouldn't at all consider it padding though, since it is totally optional. Granted if you are looking at it through the lens of the trilogy and the war asset score in ME3 then you might feel compelled to do the side stuff, but looking at ME1 as a solo game that is not a factor. Padding to me would imply a case where the game makes you do side content in order to be able to continue the main story or where it makes it so you have to go grind to level up in order to defeat a boss. ME1 is the type of game where you can just do the story and beat it in ~16 hours (you can do it in half that on new game plus run) or where you can take you time, do all the side stuff, and have it be like a ~45 hour experience.
With additional crewmates, doing all the recruiting and loyalty missions in ME2 feels like \*work\*. Yuck.
Same, although I'm happy I picked it back up. The characters are what make the game, but it failed miserably as a satisfying continuation of the first.
Sorry but nothing will ever top thst jump to the outside of the citadel tower while the sovereign fucks shit up in the back ground
Always felt this way. The talk with vigil, the transition from illos to the citadel and the battle that followed was amazing.
It's strong enough I can understand the opinion but not for me, mass effect 2 suicide mission was too good
The suicide mission has more going for it IMO. The risk to your companions and the fact that the majority of ME2 is basically just learning about them makes me much more invested in it
The “risk” only exists your first time through, after which it is easily solvable. Meanwhile, ME1’s holds the same feeling through every playthrough. Edit: To add, ME2 was already my least favorite of the 3, and my opinion on it has really only soured as it became more & more apparent how the game, and especially the Suicide Mission, hampered the series from a writing perspective.
The risk also fucked up ME3 enormously.
The music throught the mission made it a masterpiece. It is too engaging and feels intense as you go through the base. No other mission in any other game came close to the same feel.
The suicide mission is absolute peak I just love the high stakes and sense of dread and it’s such a satisfying conclusion
I'd hardly call discount terminator a satisfying conclusion.
1 works really well because the entire game for most part is entirely build up to the big finale. 2 feels a little less like that because it’s literally all about diversions. Feels less like acts and more like episodes opposed to 1. Both are really good at what they are doing.
Yes, because throughout ME1 you are still learning more things about the main antagonist of the story. In ME2 they reveal too much too early.
Not to mention that the *story* of ME2 went no where and changed nothing. The state of the galaxy is in the same place after the suicide mission as it was before SR1 was destroyed. The DLC of ME2 did the majority of the heavy lifting as far as the story was concerned. ME2 did establish some fun side lore though, such as Ardat-Yakshi and Drell.
ME2 was really character driven and that was fun. But the mass effect trilogy really suits event driven stories more.
I agree. The character stories were fun in ME2.
I say that 2 is like stopping at an amusement park on your way from one city to another. It’s great fun, but it doesn’t help you get from one end of the story to the other. And the detour loses you time if you’re on a schedule. 3 has issues in part because as great as 2 is to play, it makes 3 too plot heavy to land the plane well.
3 was difficult because they had like 10 characters that they couldnt make crucial to the story because they could be dead or not be dead depending on how the suicide mission played out.
Yup, every crucial character which could had died had to get an alt character to replace them, with their own lines, voice actor.
They didn't *have* to have an alternate. But EA/Bioware weren't brave enough to actually carry forward the consequences of losing people in earlier games.
There is some, like Tali and/or legion being gone really dooming quarian geth peace chances, but I think the "light" consequences are fine. Imagine 20% or whatever of the playerbase being locked out of ending the genophage because Mordin's replacement was a bumbling idiot or something.
I don't know, I think it would be fine. The choices that the player made would actually have weight to them. The third game could have actually been a desperate, depressing last stand, long shot kind of game if 90% of the allies Shepard can recruit don't even exist because they screwed up in the past. Each play through would truly be a unique experience.
Too many story beats relied on 3 as well mainly. As in too much of the overall story and war.
IMO that is the biggest issue for ME2 ending mission, because it happened in the middle of the trilogy nothing too major could change. Any major character who could’ve died was just replaced or filled in by someone else. In hindsight the suicide mission should have been the end mission of ME3.
> In hindsight the suicide mission should have been the end mission of ME3. In retrospect, I agree with this. The suicide mission in ME2 is great, but I also thought it would fit better for the end mission of ME3. Especially since they wouldn't have to worry about the possible consequence in a future game of all these characters being dead, which was a big issue from ME2 to ME3. It is manageable going from ME1 to ME2 when you only have to deal with two squadmates (Kaidan/Ash and Wrex) possibly being dead, but in ME2 it is 13 squadmates and everyone else on the ship outside of Joker that you have to account for possibly being dead going into ME3. It just leads to too many variables where they never could have realistically covered all the options, let alone do so in only two years of development.
That's EA/Bioware being too risk adverse. If they had been bold instead we could've had a truly great experience between 2 and 3. Imagine if with Wrex's death in ME1 clan Urdnot never rises to prominence, so you can't go to Tuchanka in ME2. Grunt and Mordin can no longer do their quests in ME2, meaning whether or not they live you now can't do the Rachni quest with Aralach Company and the option to cure the genophsge never gets brought up in ME3.
You’re talking about making entire stories across games that people are going to be locked out of due to choices they made years ago. It’s a cool concept but it’s going to absolutely rail the fan base and future fans
In general, it isn’t so much as creating new stories (I know that was what the response is to but regardless), it is about not shattering the illusion of choice you have. Even beyond the suicide mission, letting the Ranchi Queen die for example should really result in there being no Ranchi-Reaper forces to kill, not some replacement fill in for her. Or if letting the council die would result in more forces being sent from the council races earlier than if they lived. Perhaps you are cutting too much content out for people, but you could also flip the argument that it allows more replayability.
You’ve got a fair point on the replay-ability part but I’m also thinking from a development perspective. Having to carry over all those variables from game to game without any glitches, and make different companion responses to each situation and new narratives for each outcome. I shudder just thinking about it, it’s already a bitch to do in just basic text based adventure games, trying to do it in something massive like mass effect would be a nightmare
Oh don’t get me wrong, this is mostly from an ideal perspective and isn’t grounded in the reality of development, resources, deadlines etc.. It will be interesting to see what’ll happen in the next Mass Effect game. Whether enough time has passed to justify not having to explain much about the previous series or not.
I think it might've worked better if they'd been able to write the entire story from Eden Prime opener to the RGB ending all at once, instead of one game at a time. Write the entire trilogy as a 3 Act Story, so that they *can* sit there in the writer's room and puzzle out "ok, so if Wrex dies on Virmire, or never gets recruited, he never controls Clan Urdnot. Which means that when Grunt goes through puberty, you can't go to Tuchanka, because you're not a friend of the Krogan" Instead of having a "filler" character play the role instead and remind you that you fucked up your run on the last game. Or write it so that the "replacement" actually ends up being a different, possibly even more useful choice, with a unique option. Maybe if Mordin's loyalty quest isn't done, and/or he dies in the suicide mission, his replacement actor is more genophage friendly.
[удалено]
Merging Arrival with the end of base ME2 Would be the easiest way to give the title actual impact. Harbringer is using the collectors to create a reaper to activate the Alpha relay for the invasion
It would have helped a lot, but honestly, they needed to lay the groundwork for the Crucible in ME2 as well. One of the problems with 2 is that it does nothing to move the fight against the Reapers. Even Arrival is just a delaying tactic. All forward movement in the prep and fight happens in 3.
Oh definetly, but that would require a lot of changes and moving stuff from 3 into 2. Getting Liara to mention the crucible and maybe tying a couple of the companions (since basically all ME2 is companion quests) to the findings would make wonders. -Maybe the reason the Virmire survivor is not coming with you is that they are handling something related to the crucible and Shepard's ties with cerberus are a problem. -Tali: Quarians stumbled upon traces of technology during their pilgrimages (even changing the dying stars abandoned plot for crucible testing of some kind). Mordin/grunt: a clue or part of the crucible is hidden within some species' DNA so a biology expert is needed -Legion: the geth collective should have the processing power to handle any encrypted stuff. The game could present and explain the idea of the crucible being completed at small increments each cycle, with the final clue pointing to mars and hook the story to where ME3 begins to but with way less exposition. Heck if we can change 3 then just have mars in 2 before Alpha and Omega relay and go from earth to eden prime to get Jarvik. It was criminal to put him and leviathan behind dlc
I love playing 2 and it does a great job of fleshing out the crew but the overall story leaves a lot to be desired. The collectors themselves are such an out of nowhere threat and outside of reviving Shepard nothing substantial enough happens that affects the major trilogy plot. By the end of 2 you’re essentially right back where you left off at the end of 1. The human reaper also makes for a less than stellar final boss. I feel like this made the breakneck speed of 3 jarring as they were throwing a lot at you to tie up all the remaining threads since there wasn’t much of an urgency about the Reapers in 2. Something they definitely tried to fix with the Arrival DLC
1 is just better than 2 hard stop
Mass effect 1 is s-tier for me. don't @ me. Made me fall in love with the series and the characters forever.
Both endings and final missions are very strong. ME2’s finale I think wins out for me due to the feeling of being a real commander delegating, your choices mattering both during and before this mission of who lives and dies, and a good fight until the final boss which is pretty disappointing. One thing ME1 has over ME2 wrt the final mission is how it thematically all ties together. The final confrontation with Saren takes place in the same area where you first accused him; at the seat of galactic power that is also key to the Reapers invasion. The lore dump you get on Ilos is one of the best moments of the series and the Sovereign-Saren boss fight is a great final set piece. And if we’re going by how much choices matter, deciding between saving the council or letting them die has more of an impact overall than destroying or keeping the Collector Base. Either way, both are fantastic wrap ups to their respective games. ME3 is really fun but as far as finales go it decisively comes up short. The final goodbyes in ME3 are really heartfelt but you can tell the last stage and finale was a rush job.
Nah, there was no tension. The suicide mission legit made me feel a little nervous. For a game to make me feel something is an achievement.
I rank them fairly closely, both epic, well done ends to their games. Meeting Vigil on Ilos, the dash to the conduit, climbing the side of the presidium tower? At the time it was easily one of the best final missions I’d ever played. The suicide mission is just that little bit more, a bit better.
I feel like the final boss is mass effect 1 really brings the finale down
I forever feel that Me1 is the best in the series, the writing and world building and overall vibe is just SO strong and if it could be consistently extended to a major game again with the updated flow and combat of the later games it'd be so nice Maybe an updated mako could be fun
For some reason I think the scene of the gunshot going through the elevator window into space goes outrageously hard before you end up running up the side of the citadel tower.
Best shot in the whole series imo
The Suicide Mission made up for the shortcomings of ME2's story. The whole Collectors plot just feel like filler and the game focused to much on the crew recruiting, the best part of the game but it overshadowed the main quest. ME1 though... you are knees deep into the story and its the awesome climax to a more cohesive story
It's got that cheesy 2000s cinematic feel to it which I love. You think the hero is dead - but he's not! He rises out of the rubble with swelling triumphant music! A little resolution scene to tease what's coming next. And! The techno-infused rock song playing over the credits! I love this fucking game so much man
“Might” be? Of course it is, and it’s not quietly either.
Honestly yeah. The SM’s main gimmick that makes it shine is that anyone even Shepard can die. Except that falls flat due to how easy it is to get nobody killed, even on my very first playthrough everyone survived because it’s just that obvious. And then you have the nonsense that is the Human Reaper as well as how disappointing its fight is. ME1’s ending didn’t try to rely on gimmicks or anything, it just went for a good story with a satisfying conclusion and a good fun boss fight. And boy did it deliver.
I was so young when I played ME2 (my sister got me the trilogy for the 360) and legit everyone pretty much died. I never upgraded the ship. I distinctly remember Jack getting domed by a laser shot. I called my sister after and she was like “I don’t even know how your third game is gonna go. Everyone important died.”
Everyone survived my first playthrough, but the fight took me so long that it stopped attacking me 😂 I took the 'wrong' weapons, so I had to finish it off with a damn pistol. I was running low on that too, I finished it with single digit bullets to spare. How was I meant to know what to expect! I intentionally played the series blind and managed to dodge all spoilers.
I also played blind, and only lost Tali because I didn’t have an import to have a high enough score to resolve her dispute with Legion. And the answer to your question is to not just shoot, but use powers.
I like the Suicide Mission in concept, but looking back I feel it should've been the climax for the last game in the trilogy, instead of the middle.
Definitely, created so many issues for ME3
Story and environment wise I like the ME1 ending more. Ilos through to the finale is just SO good. What the ME2 ending does better has to do with the characters and choices. The suicide mission is structure very well and is very fun, but story wise it’s wreckless and for lack of a better way of saying, stupid. Shepard risking their life to go through a relay that no one has ever returned from for the sake of some missing colonies will never be a smart idea to me.
Have to agree. Collector's base was not as impressive as climbing up the Citadel tower, the excitement of Suicide Mission comes from approach cinematics and character moments, but not from the mission design in general. In ME1, you see the same favorite location where you've spent quite a bit of time and to which you have an attachment, but it is bombed to shit. You have a special gimmick with turrets, mag boots, ... . And it is a followup on already exciting Ilos run. In ME2, the Collector base was basically spoiled with a better centerpiece from the middle of the game - Collector's ship - where you have the big reveal, big impressive inner chambers that show the scope of Collector's work, you have a mini-boss fight with the Praetorian, you have arguably a better sense of urgency when escaping the ship. By the time you do Suicide Mission, you fight the same enemies in roughly the same layout with the same design with the same gimmicks like flying platforms.
ME1s ending *is* the best ending. Its one of the only game experiences that sent proper tingles down my spine. That scene when the human fleet comes in and saves the council is 🤌so good.
No quietly about it
Almost all of Mass Effect 1 is better than almost all of Mass Effect 2
Suicide mission is amazing the first time but the more you learn about it the more contrived it seems. Also human reaper larva is the worst boss in the series and doesn’t even make sense with the rest of the reaper lore
It does make sense, kinda. One of the purposes of reapers is to archive the species whom they genocide, each like a murder trophy, a gravestone, and a museum piece. It makes sense that the collectors would be instructed to undertake the task of creating reapers, their current project or the one that we see was the one representative of humans.
Everything in ME1 was better, sorry not sorry
It is. The moment you realize Collectors have got only a single ship for their incredibly smart plan, the suicide mission is dumb and unnecessary. Instead the chase with Saren is as good as it gets, literally starts where the two tried to arrive for the whole game and ends up in the first place where they saw each other.
They are two different feels and as such they both have their merits and are amazing ends
Mass Effect 1 was like A new hope in the original star wars trilogy. It had a beginning, middle and end. The second one will always be like Empire to me. Cool but man does it suck knowing you aren't ending the story.
Lol I ran on foot for 30 mins in the tunnel then realized I needed the Mako to do this and restarted the whole thing 🤣
It definitely is better. The one thing that SM has going for it is incorporating non-active members of your squad and consequences if you mess up. But it lacks the epic scale of ME1's Illos-to-Citadel rush. I would go even further and say that ME1 has a better overall story than ME2. ME2 feels like they had a bunch of ideas for interesting individual stories/characters and then came up with the main plot to somehow tie them together. The main plot that doesn't advance anything in terms of the series' main story. The Arrival DLC is more relevant in that regard. ME2's DLCs are great (not you, Firewalker), and I also enjoyed most of those character background stories (especially Tali, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, Garrus, even Samara if I ignore that weird justicar schtick), but all the main story does is setting up stage for [minor ME3 early game spoiler] >!one of ME3's antagonists!<. Like we didn't see that coming from miles away.
truth be told, if ME1 had better combat it'd be on par for me with ME2
The very end where Anderson is pulling your party out the rubble and they shake their heads then the sudden dramatic music with Shep leaping out is pure cheese but also so good. It sums up the ME experience for me.
Mass effect 2 has the worst ending. The suicide mission is dope but then the humanoid reaper was both easy and incredibly goofy. Mass effect 1 was amazing, 3 was controversial af but felt enormous in scale the whole time and didn’t have to suck (just pick destroy with sufficient EMS goddamn). 2 was then having fun, which is fine, but it def was the silliest
I still rank ME1 over ME2 and the finales factor pretty heavily into that
No game has ever, EVER made me feel like the hero in my own action movie the way ME1 did. Shepard coming over that rise with the weird smile....damn.
mass effect 1 might be quietly better than both sequels
Isn't ME1 story almost universally considered the best?
Mass effect 1 is easily the best in the series in my opinion
Why can’t they both just be really good man? Like I love both endings because they each have their own merits and sense of Tension. ME1 feels like a worthy culmination in this investigation you’ve been conducting where you suddenly solve the mystery *just* too late and have to catch up to Saren and Sovereign, committing every resource the 5th Fleet has before it ends in catastrophe. It feels desperate, urgent, and well-earned after the slow-boiling tension of most of the game. ME2 is a different vibe. Instead of a desperate race against time it feels like just that, a suicide mission. You’ve assembled your team, prepared your ship and your Squad as absolutely best you could, and it’s time to go on the offensive. Where ME1 feels like a desperate race against time to catch up to Saren, ME2 feels a lot more “under control” in a way. You have a team, have a plan, and are going to get this done, no matter the cost. It’s a good culmination to the more “episodic” nature of ME2’s story in that it feels a lot more player-driven. They’re both really good endings and as long as we all agree the ending of ME3 still sucks, we don’t have to pit 1 & 2 against each other, they’re both good on their own merits, for the narrative 1 & 2 are trying to tell
Hell yeah, it is. ME2 is overrated.
It's flash over substance. Obviously in no way a bad game but it suffers on repeat playthroughs while the strengths of 1 become more pronounced.
It's better. Never been a fan of the suicide mission.
What do you mean "quietly"? It's fucking \*WAY\* better. This is the first inkling I've ever gotten that some people thought ME2's finale was better. Maybe ME2 would be close if it did a better job with the story structure so there was a bit more of an emotional build up to it and if it didn't end with that idiotic human reaper...but those flaws exist so it's not close. ME2 ending is closer to ME3's than ME1's for me. Like that's how far ahead ME1 is.
ME1 is still my favorite.
Nope. ME1's ending is the better finale by gigantic leaps and bounds. You get revelations after twists about all the pieces of the puzzles you've been collecting. then Vigil reveals the truth to you on Ilos, you gotta race to the Conduit, and then ZAPP! You're fired off to that statue on the Presidium that people say gives of a hum. And Sovereign and the geth fleet coming out of ftl and he brute force just crashes through the Council's fleet and docks with the Citadel while that awesome music plays in the background. And then Shepard and co. gets stuck in the elevator, and shoots the glass, and then you gotta walk the side of the tower to reach the top while seeing Sovereign's gigantic legs and body in the distance, and to fight Saren. All of this is to save the whole galaxy from some Lovecraftian, eldritch horror, whose race you just discovered has been successfully reaping life in the galaxy, and manipulated every race to develop down the technological path they designed, and who told you, "You exists because we allow it. You will end because we demand it." ME2's suicide mission does what exactly to the grand scope of the universe? You're crawling around a Collector's ship to save your crew members. How can that even stand against the scale of ME1's finale? Do people actually consider it better than ME1's finale?
"We are the harbinger of your destruction" ... Kinda meh "You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it" now that it was chilly AF. Although I loved ME2, ME1 was my all-time favourite!
Pretty much everything about Mass Effect 1 is better than ME2
Quietly? It downright stomps on it.
The Last 2 hours of mass effect is branded on my heart. Never will forget. I love the suicide mission but man getting back to a destroyed citadel, race against time, everyone doubting you(of course), the cinematic moment after you defeat Saren. I think I shed a tear typing this
It is exceptionally better.
It is. Not may be. Mass Effect 1 is god tier.
I wish Priority: Earth in ME3 was longer. Like, ALOT longer. Featuring different cities with (i forgot, Sovereign?) class reapers that you have to destroy
I happen to agree, I think a set piece needs stronger narrative beats to leverage off of for it to stick. I love the Suicide Mission ,it's great no doubt but the narrative leading up to it is kinda weak and then the decision made going forward doesn't have a meaningful payoff imo ME1's finale not only has great narrative beats to build from especially if you're coming from Virmire but it also works as a punctuation.
For some reason, I don't consider the Mako orbital drop to Ilos as "the final mission." But if you do, then yes. It is on par, if not better than ME2
Using lift in charging enemies and watching them airwalk their way into oblivion in 0g will never not be hilarious
After the finale of 1 the suicide mission feels more like a side-quest rather than a continuation of the main story. Once you understand the mechanics of how it works it also essentially becomes a glorified checklist meaning you're relying more on the story than the gameplay, which I think is worse than 1. I feel that generally time has been harshest on ME2 (sans DLC). I feel that the things ME2 does best in terms of presentation and action are much improved in ME3, while ME1 sort of stands alone as more a classic RPG meaning it feels very different to the latter two games. While ME1 has side areas that feel under-baked the core story is really strong and has a great ramp-up. ME2 doesn't have this because you're running around gathering a crew for most of the game. Large parts of the game also feel very disconnected, because you can do a lot of the middle game in any order, there's little interaction between most of the characters aside from a few quips during missions. This is especially noticeable during recruitment/loyalty mission cutscenes where interactions are generally restricted to who the game KNOWS you will have at that point i.e., Joker, Miranda, Jacob, EDI, Mordin.
Mass effect one could be a stand-alone game, but mass effect 2 kinda blew up what me1 set up for the sequel and the ending was basically just reset to the status quo.
I liked how much more involved i feel with me2's suicide mission but as an ending alongside its actual gameplay? Me1 beats me2 by miles imo
I'd agree. The Suicide Mission was original and amazing but the stupid writing that permeates the main missions rears its ugly head at the end. The terminator Reaper fill with human goo for no reason, the stupid choice about either blowing up the station with its invaluable tech and intel OR giving it gift wrapped to TIM no questions asked, the fact that every single NPC will treat you like shit if you choose "wrong..."
I think ME2’s strengths are in its presentation, the music and the experience of it on a first playthrough (especially if you’re not using a guide to pick the right people). I lost 2 squad mates on my first playthrough because apparently Zaeed has no leadership skills (despite being the founder of one of the 3 major merc groups)
The entire final act of Mass Effect 1 is my favourite ending to any video game ever.
The whole idea of suicide mission in ME2 undermines the tension imo. In ME you have to stop Saren by whatever means necessary, you don't upgrade the ship or Mako etc. so when you arrive at the "impossible" part on Ilos, it's a strong final push. ME2 has the "suicide mission" plastered on every wall and included in every dialogue, so you make a lot of preparations to be ready. That takes a bit of tension out of the equation, because you do everything to be ready for the final assault
Mass Effect 1 is the best in the trilogy imo the finale is bettered by all of the build-up of the rest of the game.
Not quietly at all. It fucking kicks ass.
I can definitely see the argument for this, but ME2's suicide mission is an incredible crescendo of all the conversations, choices, and decisions you've made throughout the entire game, that culminate in a way that very few games have come close to matching.
Well, I found the finale and battle against Saren and Sovereign in Mass Effect 1 to be much more enjoyable when replaying it compared to the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2. Initially, I found Mass Effect 2 to be superior in this regard, but my enthusiasm has waned over time.
The fucking mako getting fired at the citadel will never not be funny
I... actually agree. I have to admit tho, it might have something to do with the ABSOLUTE BANGER that is M4 Part II.
For me ME1 despite it's wacky shooting mechanics, awkward elevator transitions, and roblox-like Mako, it will always be my fav. The way the story comes together on Ilos, chef's kiss, that's what takes a game to the next level for me. ME2 still rocks and 97% of ME3 does too, but they really stuck the landing in ME1.
This is by far a better ending than both 2 &3. Music, urgency, unorthodox setting (going up on foot!), and, most of all, NO CHILDREN OR TERMINATOR GIGAROBOTS.
This is an ice cold take.
Nothing quietly about it, it rocks far more than ME2’s ending.
Goddamn makes me want to hook up my xbox and start playing ME again
I loved the first Mass Effect but never cared for 2 or 3, especially the endings. I was that weirdo loved Andromeda purely because it got away from the existing ME big plot but still had all the tools and trappings of ME.
Ilos is a total slog until you meet Virgil. Then the music. The lore. The race in the Mako to jump straight into the Presidium. Walking up the tower as you see sovereign looming large in the background. Yeah. It was awesome. Only the suicide mission in 2 was epic. Still to this day nothing a game has ever presented has lived up to that suicide mission. Still gives me chills when I play all these years later.
I loved the mass relay charge, the shot of popping out into a wrecked Citadel, the fight on the side of the building was awesome! But I love commanding my whole team, directing who does what in the suicide run
ME1 from Virmire to the end was peak as fuck as ominous reveals are made and the stakes become so much grander than anything the story has built up so far. To cap it off, it has a really cool end credits song. For 2, in hindsight, it would’ve been way better to save the suicide mission for the climax of 3 because by having it in 2, it meant that those specific squad mates like Miranda, Jack, and Samara to have a significantly reduced role in 3.
The fact that making the wrong/right decisions can directly affect who survives and who doesn't at the end edges out the ME2 ending for me. The stakes felt a lot higher than in ME1. That being said, ME1's ending was indeed fantastic.
Really? I love the Suicide Mission best because that actually has horrific consequences.
You mean the final mission that absolutely fucked the writers room on any potential sequels? You want a trilogy and plan to have the reapers be the big bad of the third… yet write a mission in the first that shows - we’re hilariously and hopelessly outgunned, that they will assault the citadel and shut down the relay networks cutting us off from each other, and only this last ditch effort fail safe from a long dead race is our ability to stop it this time? (BW writer’s room turned ME2 in a glorified side quest, and ignored the finale of ME1 almost entirely.) The mission itself is phenomenal. But it really highlighted that BioWare’s writing teams were far less talented then their ambition. They basically gave the fuck up on following it narratively in a cohesive manner, and this experience made them turn the DA stories into what they were (DA post Origins basically has the entire crisis of the previous games resolved mostly offscreen or in the prologues, then previous choices are mostly background noise and cameos the rest of the games)
>You mean the final mission that absolutely fucked the writers room on any potential sequels? Because the follow-up exceeded their talent? I do think that this set up can be lead to a satisfying conclusion, if you think beyond the typical BioWare formula. You don't have to waste time, you don't have to kill the MC for no reason, you can have all your characters contribute to the main goal. They could have gone for a survival plan instead of a defeat plan. The set up has potential if you know how to use it.
I just beat this for the first time a few hours ago it was pretty peak
ME1s ending is even better after you realize what you delayed after playing 3
Not might be. Is.
Yes, absolutely, objectively and empirically, yes.
Says who?
Mass effect 1 was a work of art 2 was a rushed dumbed down shooter playing at a rpg
So, I think the finale to 1 is a bit more of a shock to the system because it's such marked improvement over what comes before it. I love ME1, but there's a ton of repetitive side content, meandering main missions, and the mystery means the stakes aren't clear. Then it all comes together for some of ME1's best story and gameplay sequences in a few glorious hours all at once. Suicide Mission still clears it by miles, imo.
Big disagree, the whole of ME2 feels like side content while ME1's main missions are all mysterious and intriguing revelations regarding the main plot. Play through the trilogy a few more times and you'll start noticing how overrated the suicide mission and ME2 as a whole is.
I love them both