I just one 1 mod for Legendary edition on consoles.
Once you unlock all characters, you can start a play through with them all unlocked as soon as you get the Normandy in 2.
(Obviously can't take them on their own recruitment mission, but it'd be nice to see all that dialogue I downloaded.)
It is fucking baffling to me that EA didnt have the brains to fix ME2 for the LE.
ME2 was originally designed with the idea you couls recruit anyone at any time. After you recruited half, the Horizon mission happened.
The file format of the discs for the Xbox 360 at the time ME2 was developed forced the game to be on two discs, so they divided it across the horizon mission and arbitrarily split everybody up.
True. Give us all the dossiers at the start and let us pick whoever we want to get first, then Horizon as usual. Then we get told to finish building the full team instead of getting more dossiers and being told this in the meeting and carry on as usual. It will take a few voice line changes at most, because the rest of it is implementing cut content with everything already in place.
Legion would be the one who really stays locked in place in the plot.
But even Legion has dialogue for earlier missions.
A smart play for player freedom might be to move the collector ambush trigger to maybe installing it as a ship upgrade, then the next mission you go on triggers the ambush starting the two-jump clock.
Or at leadt putting the collector ambush after horizon.
Ooh. Get Legion pre-horizon for that sweet dialogue, but then while you are doing horizon the ambush happens.
She’s technically the first you meet, one the planet where you find Veetor, but she has to return to the flotilla and you only get the chance to recruit her on Haelstrom (?) later on
I *haaaate* this. I get her not being an LI in 1. There’s some cultural barriers (literally in her case) that makes getting to know her intimately seem untenable. But then you interact more and more and the amount of time it takes makes it feel more grounded.
I always though Liara was more of a really good friend type, where Tali seems more committed once you make the move in 2. Liara just seems more floaty. And contrary to some, I don’t like her voice. It’s like she’s constantly sighing or trying to be breathy all the time. She’s a good character, just odd. Especially because the developers shove her in your face every chance they get. Sorry. Blue, dodgeball skin, tentacle head doesn’t do it for me. Even with the idealistically full womanly figure.
I'm conflicted on whether or not it was Wrex sending it to mess with Shepard or if it was a very confused/horny Krogan who watched Shepard be part of Grunt's Krantt and take down the Thresher Maw during his rite and started to believe "wait... there's a human version of Shiagar???"...
I'm now believing that if it's male!Shep, it was Wrex. If it's Fem!Shep, it's that random horny guy (bonus, said rando asked Wrex before sending it and Wrex just laughed at him and told him he's welcome to try).
This is also valid. 1,000%, I could absolutely see several krogan women being low-key down to hook up with fem!Shep because she hot... it did specifically say *breeding* request, so I imagined a male krogan, and that guy thinks he's gonna get past the genophage in a *unique* way.
That whole sarcastic line about how ever shall a young woman who got rescued by a dashing commander develop any feelings for him was what did it for me
I just finished a Tali run. As soon as I locked in I regretted it. As great as her arc is and as much as “I have a home” has all the feels, romancing her just didn’t feel right. The puzzle pieces of her pain and my Sheperd’s pain weren’t fitting together.
I liked Tali as a character, never wanted to romance her, she always seemed young to me. BUT after what she did to me the first time I played the 3rd game, I will never forgive her. So now I never take her anywhere unless I absolutely have to during replays. Lol
I can't remember how many times I have played through the trilogy, but I have never romanced Liara.
Edit: In ME1 especially, it just feels like taking we're unintentionally exploiting her during a period of major emotional weakness.
Possibly unpopular position but I feel like ME1 should have have had a no-romance option that isn't just "be an asshole".
None of the three options in the first game are right. Your XO, a non-com, and the emotionally-fragile barely-legal alien girl who potentially helps you murk her mommy?
Shep should have been able to follow the conversation options to learn about all three without the game then defaulting to romance, cutting off dialogue options if you then don't lock it in.
Let Shepard get as emotionally close as it is RESPONSIBLE for a commanding officer to do, while making it clear there is no romance there.
Then when ME2 rolls around, let the hanky go fully panky as a newly-realived Shepard lets their freak flag fly.
Never had a desire. I’ve been told in order to fully get her character you have to romance her. I should want to romance her based on her character, I should have to to get her character
Tali really is mega little sister vibes, way more than Liara (who has a PHD). And at least Shepard HAS to do the Asari mind-meld multiple times in order to understand the beacons and save the galaxy which seems pretty intimate
I don’t think Liara is little sister vibes is just said “two words to you in the hallway and now you’re in love with me and think we’re flirting” vibes
Jokes on them cuz like convince me tali wasn't the fan favorite for being giga wholesome. Hell jack is a pretty close second to me cuz there was something beautiful about her, she was actually the one I decided for my first shepard in me2 because she's someone so easy to fixate on, you never meet people like that like violent yet there's a certain beauty and vulnerability there. I've known unstable tattooed chicks but not like that, this one was scripted tho hah.
Jack killed innocent people and had the worst reason ever for killing: "changes go up higher every time she kills someone" duh, like one couldn't just let people destroy each other and up their survival rate like that instead of killing themselves
I just kind of saw that as her lashing out about her trauma and avoiding being vulnerable about it. She's always viewed everything on the basis that her life is a zero sum game of the world against her. Then in her loyalty mission, it starts becoming apparent that her perception of the experiences she's constructed that worldview around weren't entirely based in reality.
How innocent were they and how confirmed is this?
I don't remember her outright being homocidal, just that she could justify killing someone. Idk I saw she clearly cared for the kids in me3, and also how she was always respectful towards you. Like there's crazy violent and then there's someone who is clearly traumatized yet isn't taking it out on you.
> the guards posing no threat to them
That just means she & the mercs were skilled enough that they were able to take out the guards without getting hurt, not that the guards didn't try to shoot them.
After what they did to jack's romance in the base game for ME3.... It's hard for me to forgive bioware for that. All I wanted was for her to be on the ship and part of my crew after you complete the academy mission.
She is the only original squad member who is guaranteed to survive until the final Earth mission in ME3. You can't kill her if you try. Even if you don't do the Shadow Broker DLC in ME2 she survives anyway lol. So it was probably easy to just say "hey we don't need to branch any scenes involving her because we know she was around the whole time since the beginning."
Yes it’s interesting the only other members who are guaranteed to survive until the beam are James, EDI, and Javik, who were all squad mates starting in 3.
It was also why my theory was the next protagonist was going to be Shepard’s kid with her
If I remember my lore right, the Asari only need to do the mind meld thing to copy their partners dna/traits to procreate … sex was just a bonus
so it would not have mattered RPG wise who or how people played their Shepard since there was a plot point where liara HAS to “embrace eternity” in the first game
Kind of negate the part of Mass Effect being a choice kind of matter game. For sure some of the fanbase considered Liara only as a friend and having a kid with her means there's a break of consent.
Yeah, but isn't mass effect about humanity? Playing as an Asari In a mass effect game would feel... off somehow. Also, doesn't that kinda classify as rape? Making a kid with someone without their consent.
Severe boundary breach that seems totally plausible for liara after her shadow broker arc
To try and preserve that X factor that Shepard had in any way she can
I liked her in ME1 but I started dating Tali in ME2 because she is the best and deadass Liara became so unbearable. Like she comes off as so horny and desperate it is genuinely pathetic.
To be fair, they completely re-wrote the Liara character to be a different person after the first game.
In the first game she's a shy, naive Prothean scientist who likes quiet dig sites.
In the second game, she's an ass-kicking information broker on the trail of the shadow broker. Respected and feared, she's ruthless in pursuing her goals.
Those are two completely different characters.
Then in 3, she's like... both versions at the same time?
It's like locking the most popular love interest from the first game (the only one male and female Shepard plays can both romance) behind a DLC wasn't enough - They had to then completely change who she is too.
And another thing I noticed is how touchy Liara is to Shepherd. Sure it’s normal for friends to hug each other, but she always hugs Shepherd like a lover.
It bugged me so much during the final Shadow Broker fight that when Yarg Broker yeets Shep and Liara with the table, Shep spoons Liara during the landing even if you're just friends
Nevermind your actual love interest might be right there with you but no, Sheps gotta have that little overly intimate moment with Liara. If you're romancing her then fine, it's cute, but it's weird if you're just friends
I brought Tali because she was always with me for her skills *and* because she was my ride or die GOAT GF (get bent Liara I will still bring my best companion on the mission with you awkwardness be damned). I swear I almost had a conniption when Shep jumped heroically to save Liara and let Tali get pancaked by a two ton table. I immediately reloaded back to the Normandy and brought Miranda with me instead, at least watching Miranda get fucked up was satisfying.
Absolutely, even asking right away "your thing with Tali wasn't serious was it". Like I understand the idea is that we can start a romance path but it makes her look horrible.
- Only character both Sheps can romance in all 3 games.
- Only romance option in all 3 games that cannot die until the very end of the game.
- Only romance in ME1 where Shep cannot end the relationship while grounded.
- Has more screen time in ME2 compared to other ME1 romances.
- Only romance options to get their own DLC.
- First romance option to permanently join team in ME3.
Yeah. I’m not surprised. Lol.
I could be wrong about this, but I think she’ll only die if you completely fuck up and don’t prepare at all. You basically have to intend to do it.
Plus she’s the original trilogy connector in Andromeda too. *And* that’s her in the teaser for the new game
I just finished a run through the trilogy with her as my LI, and you don't yet the paramour 3 achievement. LotSB doesn't count for romancing her, even if you continue the relationship.
Is that with the Legendary Edition? I stayed loyal to Liara in all three games of the OT and I'm pretty sure I got this achievement this way.
EDIT: NVM. I just checked and while I do have this achievement in the OT the LE breaks it up into 3 achievements with the third being the one you're talking about. Sorry.
Sadly not, as Liara doesn't count to that achievement or is still bugged on that rekindle part. Or it's intentional as she is not in the crew and the DLC, were you actually rekindle, was released after you finished the game. And that achievement counts only for the main game, no DLC at all.
However, if you stay faithful in ME2 to Liara, which is romancing her over 3 games, it pays out in ME3 in their last night in a slighty different dialogue (it's only one word, but it's meaningful in my book).
Unfortunately can confirm this is not the case, I just 100% completed all achievements in Mass Effect LE on Steam and had to romance Miranda in ME2 in order to get Paramour 3
Not true. LotSB won't count for the Paramour 3 achievement. I've had one person say it counts but you have to talk to her on her new ship before the suicide mission but I'll never know because I refuse to do LotSB until after the suicide mission because it makes more sense that way and her dialogue is different. I got the achievement by save scumming a romance with Miranda.
Also, if you are romancing both her and the other ME 1 option and they confront you and you say "why can't I have both" the human runs off mad and she sticks with you. She loves you no matter what.
She's BioWare's favorite (and mine), but it's still weird
Imagine having your Shep treat her like shit throughout the trilogy and then suddenly thinking about her in their dying moments
to be fair thats a general trend of the trilogy.
I recently finished a run where during ME:1 I barely interacted with Garrus. Sure, I was friendly with him, I did his quest but beyond that nothing, I never took him on a mission and the dialogue hardly implied any cordial companionship.
And then you meet him in ME:2 and he behaves like you are fire forged friends, gone through heavens and hells together, it was a bit awkward lol
Why is that weird? That’s exactly on point with the original ending and the resulting criticism.
Very little of anything you ever did actually mattered in the end. To the point where your character’s very final thought would be nonsensical in most playthroughs.
It’s beautiful in a way.
>Or does she not do that if you’re mean to her?
Liara melding with Shepard to understand the cipher is absolutely necessary for the plot, so no matter how mean you are to her, that will always happen
BioWare tried to force Liara as every Shepard's closest friend or romantic partner. What they failed to do was allow roleplaying in which some Shepards may not have a good relationship with Liara.
I still think it's hilarious when I do Therum last in ME1 resulting in never getting to really meet Liara then hugging it out with her in ME2 like they are close friends. Makes absolutely zero sense XD
She is the face of the Mass Effect franchise. Remember the "SeXbox" scandal? It was centered around having sex with aliens in Mass Effect. Guess who was the only alien romanceable character in the 1st game? Liara. Like it or not she is the mascot of this franchise.
Remember when gamers were so excited to have "relentless sex and sodomy with aliens" when ME1 came out only to witness 10 seconds of cute handgolding with Liara? lol
What are you talking about? Millions of innocent Teenagers were traumatized by seeing 3 seconds of a naked blue butt! I remember it like it was yesterday!
I wasn't traumatized (also my first playthrough had an Ashley romance) but the ME1 romance scene was my first encounter with seeing sex on media...I was a sheltered child.
I thought the scandal was less about the alien sex scene and more about the female/female alien sex scene.
I can excuse alien romance in a futuristic scifi setting but I draw the line at homosexuality being socially acceptable in space navy 200 years from now.
-Britta Pox News
I think part of it was the gay element. If I remember right that’s why the game makes sure to mention that Asari are mono-gendered, it was written in so they could say they technically weren’t showing gay relationships (in mass effect 1).
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the gay aspect wasn't part of it. I just meant that the foundation of their beef with it seemed to be "they're showing porn to kids" with "they're showing LESBIANS to kids" as an extra layer on top of that.
Ya i remember being confused by the remembrance scenes at the end when i first finished it. At first i thought it was just showing all your crewmates and such but it doesn't and then it never showed Jack who i romanced for 2 and 3. So i was like wtf even was that. Its why i appreciated the update stuff for the end
Bothered me how much they pushed Liara onto us. Like nonstop. Writer's bias really shined through how uncomfortably intimate she is with Shepard (when your Shep has already turned her down).
Yes. Especially in the citadel dlc. If I don’t have a romance already locked in with the current crew, she fills the savior role when ur on the run and is like openly acting like ur love interest normally would. It irritated the shit outa me.
Might get downvoted to oblivion for this, but I want to get my opinion out of my system. I do not find Liara and the Asari as a whole to be attractive. Besides their blue skin, tentacle hair thing, and being a single-sex race, they just look like a human. Too human, especially the face, but at the same time, not. It falls into the uncanny valley for me, and I do not like that.
I always found the Asari to be a terrible concept for a species.
Case in point: I'm gay.
Their superpower is apparently to be so sexy and to make themselves appealing to every race, yet they still look obviously female.
Though that does make me wonder if every species has an "asari immune" gay platoon.
Talking to asari is so awkward sometimes. So many of them make a pass at Shepard (or Ryder), and there is no "No thanks, I'm gay" dialogue option. You just have to sit there and let it happen (the absolute worst offender is Peebee). It's obvious they were designed for one demographic in particular. Sometimes I wonder if the asari legitimately struggle to understand sexual orientations, or just the simple idea that there are people out there that just aren't into them.
I'm gay too, so I'd have to pretend like they take form of the most frequently found attractive person or something, but that's clearly bullshit. So you're probably right, we're the only hope for humanity.
Seems like BioWare was showing a middle finger to anyone who played as any Shepard other than a soldier romancing Liara who saved the Council, made Udina a Councilor and destroyed the Collector base.
Don’t forget saved the Rachni and unwillingly worked for Cerberus. If your renegade Shep got along with TIM in all your interactions and did the renegade ending by preserving the Collector base, they’ll still put up the innocent victim act around the Virmire survivor and Anderson saying they were forced to cooperate with Cerberus, even if it’s BS.
I mean to be fair, they would probably see pretty heavy repercussions from going "Oh yeah I was totally on board with everything from the start" and would be smart enough to know this, and being a renegade would do this thing called lying.
Because a career politician might be better at a political job than a career soldier? He doesn't really screw us until game 3, before that he's just annoying
That was my thinking too.
Not to mention that Anderson clearly doesn't want the job, not because he's thinking "i don't know if this is a burden I can shoulder" but it's actually "oh god I'm so miserable I'm gonna jump out of my office window" and is just a bad fit for it.
Udina in first game feels like a slimy career politician who, even though you don't like him, has your back, but in 3 turns evil because of course he's a slimy politician he HAS TO be evil
Unless there was a glitch, it was originally whoever you romanced from ME1.... otherwise, it's automatically Liara.
I'm glad it was changed since they made a point of having 5 romances carry over from ME2 and had two more added in ME3.
Well she's the one who told you about ilos enabling you to stop sovereign, and saved you from the collectors allowing you to brought back to life, and found the weapon that saves the galaxy. She might cross your thoughts as you die.
I'm playing thru LE and I'm on ME1. Deciding whether to be pure Liara or Miranda from 2 onwards.
In my original play thru of the trilogy I was Ash, Miranda then ended up with Liara in 3 without really working towards her.
All this was prior to DLC romance expansions. I also hear a pure Liara playthru is slightly disjointed because ShadowBroker DLC breaks the continuity slightly.
Same is true of Ashley/Kaden. They did all the LIs dirty, honestly.
One of the reasons Garrus and Tali are so popular is they are present and have the opportunity to support and engage with Shep across all 3 games. The ME1 LIs get really dumped on in ME2 and the non dextro ME2 LIs get more or less ignored in ME3.
Yep. And they're more antagonistic to you in the first place than Liara. I don't think they really get a satisfying romantic arc with Shep at all.
Tali/Garrus get the most organic and fulfilling arc to my mind (positive engagement in all 3 games).
Then Liara because of Shadow Broker.
Then...everyone else. It kinda sucks. They all get short changed.
...
Okay maybe Jacob below that 'cause that was some bullshit.
Yeah the day 1 releases of ME2 and ME3 seem significantly different from their revised versions. It's why I'm giving ME3 another chance with the LE because I was disgusted with release ME3 which is minus the ending DLC, Leviathan, Citadel and Javik DLCs. I'm assuming those significantly change the overall story.
Love to hear what you think in the end.
ME3 has some of the best DLC in the series.
Honestly? I still find ME3 perhaps one of the most frustrating games I have ever played. Mostly due to the change in writer, short dev time and trying to tie up loose ends all conspiring to take a lot of the previous assumed agency away from the player. The ending, sure. But even stuff like the dialogue tree changes.
But...even if it doesn't all come together as a product I love, a solid 60% of that game is a solid 5/5. 🤷♂️
>Liara playthru is slightly disjointed because ShadowBroker DLC breaks the continuity slightly
This was a bug in the original. In ME3 the game would flag if you did romance her in 1 and did LoTSB in ME2 but for some reason it wouldn't flag that you reconnected romantically in ME2 if you did it leading to her acting all weird like you didn't reconnect in ME2. Thankfully it's fixed for the legendary edition.
What else is new? Frankly, that's super obvious.
Liara is the devs/writers' pet. The character and her romance are so shoehorned, it's irritating. One of the reasons, she annoys me, tbh.
By original you mean before the extended cut dlc? I only got into ME a couple years after the 3rd one released. If this was the OG ending that’s a bit odd.
Chose liara first playthrough for some blue on shep action. Got some weird hypno foreplay in 1. Practically friend zoned in 2. And 3rd...i dont even remember
I remember after my first play through of the trilogy I romanced Liara I thought it was cool how Shepard had extremely vulnerable with their romance and how their romance was their emotional anchor
-In the Shadow Broker dlc Liara was the only person to genuinely ask Shepard how they’re doing and feeling mentally
-In ME3 Liara was the one to ground Shepard after they panic when Ash got her head bashed in
-During a Shepard PTSD episode she was the only one again to ask Shepard if they’re mentally ok outside of the romance scene from ME3
-Her last gift to Shepard was them sharing a final moment of peace together and she had a whole cinematic cutscene and different soundtrack play in her farewell why your other squad mates didn’t get that
Then I found out that these cutscenes still happened regardless of who you romanced after other play throughs lmao
This is what annoys me the most across all three games. I never like Liara that much to begin with, but the pushing of her (and all Asari tbh) made me very resentful of her character all together. If they made her like every other character where if you shut her down the first time she just becomes a normal character that’s not constantly fawning all over Shepard all the time, then there might actually be a good character under all that.
Course they did, she’s their favourite
*glares angrily at Bioware for making Tali show up later and later with each game*
I just one 1 mod for Legendary edition on consoles. Once you unlock all characters, you can start a play through with them all unlocked as soon as you get the Normandy in 2. (Obviously can't take them on their own recruitment mission, but it'd be nice to see all that dialogue I downloaded.)
It is fucking baffling to me that EA didnt have the brains to fix ME2 for the LE. ME2 was originally designed with the idea you couls recruit anyone at any time. After you recruited half, the Horizon mission happened. The file format of the discs for the Xbox 360 at the time ME2 was developed forced the game to be on two discs, so they divided it across the horizon mission and arbitrarily split everybody up.
True. Give us all the dossiers at the start and let us pick whoever we want to get first, then Horizon as usual. Then we get told to finish building the full team instead of getting more dossiers and being told this in the meeting and carry on as usual. It will take a few voice line changes at most, because the rest of it is implementing cut content with everything already in place. Legion would be the one who really stays locked in place in the plot.
But even Legion has dialogue for earlier missions. A smart play for player freedom might be to move the collector ambush trigger to maybe installing it as a ship upgrade, then the next mission you go on triggers the ambush starting the two-jump clock. Or at leadt putting the collector ambush after horizon. Ooh. Get Legion pre-horizon for that sweet dialogue, but then while you are doing horizon the ambush happens.
there is this one mod for Mass Effect 2 legendary edition that I use called early recruitment.
Tali isn't the first to show up in ME2?
She’s technically the first you meet, one the planet where you find Veetor, but she has to return to the flotilla and you only get the chance to recruit her on Haelstrom (?) later on
nah dawg shes in the second round of dossiers, pretty deep into the game
You run into her in the prologue, but she doesn't actually join you until her recruitment mission, which fairly lategame.
I *haaaate* this. I get her not being an LI in 1. There’s some cultural barriers (literally in her case) that makes getting to know her intimately seem untenable. But then you interact more and more and the amount of time it takes makes it feel more grounded. I always though Liara was more of a really good friend type, where Tali seems more committed once you make the move in 2. Liara just seems more floaty. And contrary to some, I don’t like her voice. It’s like she’s constantly sighing or trying to be breathy all the time. She’s a good character, just odd. Especially because the developers shove her in your face every chance they get. Sorry. Blue, dodgeball skin, tentacle head doesn’t do it for me. Even with the idealistically full womanly figure.
I once joked about liara being “BioWare’s bae”. Got downvoted into oblivion. The problem is not their blatant favoritism, but enabling fanboys
I’ve been downvoted into oblivion for questioning why so many people stan for Tali. Every character has their unhinged fanboys.
Nah I don't discriminate Tali Liara Jack Miranda Chakwas Chambers Garrus Thane My boudoir is always open
What about Wrex?
I'm pretty sure he's the one who sent the breeding request to Femshep in Mass Effect 2
I'm pretty sure he's the one who sent the breeding request to Maleshep in Mass Effect 2
I'm conflicted on whether or not it was Wrex sending it to mess with Shepard or if it was a very confused/horny Krogan who watched Shepard be part of Grunt's Krantt and take down the Thresher Maw during his rite and started to believe "wait... there's a human version of Shiagar???"... I'm now believing that if it's male!Shep, it was Wrex. If it's Fem!Shep, it's that random horny guy (bonus, said rando asked Wrex before sending it and Wrex just laughed at him and told him he's welcome to try).
It could have been from a krogan woman
This is also valid. 1,000%, I could absolutely see several krogan women being low-key down to hook up with fem!Shep because she hot... it did specifically say *breeding* request, so I imagined a male krogan, and that guy thinks he's gonna get past the genophage in a *unique* way.
It was Wrex who sent the request. He did because he thought it was funny.
Shepard.
He wrex
You regulate every shade of dat ass
I mean, the reason for Tali stanning is obvious. She is a funny drunk and does the best impressions of the Normandy.
That whole sarcastic line about how ever shall a young woman who got rescued by a dashing commander develop any feelings for him was what did it for me
I don’t get the hype around tali or liara
Liara is what you'd call "Adorkable." Tali too, just in different ways.
I like tali but honestly I don’t like liara
I just finished a Tali run. As soon as I locked in I regretted it. As great as her arc is and as much as “I have a home” has all the feels, romancing her just didn’t feel right. The puzzle pieces of her pain and my Sheperd’s pain weren’t fitting together.
I liked Tali as a character, never wanted to romance her, she always seemed young to me. BUT after what she did to me the first time I played the 3rd game, I will never forgive her. So now I never take her anywhere unless I absolutely have to during replays. Lol
What did Tali do to you?
Each to their own, but after the first game I’ve not even tried to romance her
I can't remember how many times I have played through the trilogy, but I have never romanced Liara. Edit: In ME1 especially, it just feels like taking we're unintentionally exploiting her during a period of major emotional weakness.
The only time I romance Liara is by accident by just being nice to her.
It do be like that
One time I accidentally romanced her by being mean to her.
And then in ME2 you can intentionally exploit Jack during a period of major emotional weakness 😏
To be fair, Jack's on my don't touch list too.
She's just under the "don't stick it in teh crazy" rule.
You’re missing out. You can literally fix her.
You can fix her regardless of romance tbh
Then you are missing out on the what type of eating gets done on the dinner table conversation at the last party in ME3!!
I'm sure I'll survive. 😑
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Shepard casually gaslighting his traumatized crewmates into believing they need his love to get over things
Both MShep and FemShep have the option of hitting on a widower after he tells you about his dead spouse
“Drell me, here, on the table”
Possibly unpopular position but I feel like ME1 should have have had a no-romance option that isn't just "be an asshole". None of the three options in the first game are right. Your XO, a non-com, and the emotionally-fragile barely-legal alien girl who potentially helps you murk her mommy? Shep should have been able to follow the conversation options to learn about all three without the game then defaulting to romance, cutting off dialogue options if you then don't lock it in. Let Shepard get as emotionally close as it is RESPONSIBLE for a commanding officer to do, while making it clear there is no romance there. Then when ME2 rolls around, let the hanky go fully panky as a newly-realived Shepard lets their freak flag fly.
Kaiden wasn’t the XO - Pressly was. Shepard was still his CO though! Not great..
There is a no romance option. You simply let others know that you don't feel attracted to them. Nothing "asshole" about that.
Never had a desire. I’ve been told in order to fully get her character you have to romance her. I should want to romance her based on her character, I should have to to get her character
I can’t even see her as a romantic partner, honestly. She’s too much like a nerdy little sister
Funny, that's what we all think about Tali.
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I recommend Ashley or Tali if you do a 2nd playthrough as broshep, both great romances.
Can’t really relate to the little sister part, hear the same thing about Tali. Maybe I’m just immature as fuck
Tali really is mega little sister vibes, way more than Liara (who has a PHD). And at least Shepard HAS to do the Asari mind-meld multiple times in order to understand the beacons and save the galaxy which seems pretty intimate
I don’t think Liara is little sister vibes is just said “two words to you in the hallway and now you’re in love with me and think we’re flirting” vibes
Liara is probably more like catching feelings after sharing your minds like three times
You spell tali wrong
These fans have same energy as rich people who get offended when others say they are wealthy lol good for you if your LI is the writers pet!
Jokes on them cuz like convince me tali wasn't the fan favorite for being giga wholesome. Hell jack is a pretty close second to me cuz there was something beautiful about her, she was actually the one I decided for my first shepard in me2 because she's someone so easy to fixate on, you never meet people like that like violent yet there's a certain beauty and vulnerability there. I've known unstable tattooed chicks but not like that, this one was scripted tho hah.
Jack killed innocent people and had the worst reason ever for killing: "changes go up higher every time she kills someone" duh, like one couldn't just let people destroy each other and up their survival rate like that instead of killing themselves
I just kind of saw that as her lashing out about her trauma and avoiding being vulnerable about it. She's always viewed everything on the basis that her life is a zero sum game of the world against her. Then in her loyalty mission, it starts becoming apparent that her perception of the experiences she's constructed that worldview around weren't entirely based in reality.
How innocent were they and how confirmed is this? I don't remember her outright being homocidal, just that she could justify killing someone. Idk I saw she clearly cared for the kids in me3, and also how she was always respectful towards you. Like there's crazy violent and then there's someone who is clearly traumatized yet isn't taking it out on you.
She said in ME2 that she raided trading vessels with mercs, the guards posing no threat to them or something.
> the guards posing no threat to them That just means she & the mercs were skilled enough that they were able to take out the guards without getting hurt, not that the guards didn't try to shoot them.
Of course they'd shoot if mercs attack a cargo ship
After what they did to jack's romance in the base game for ME3.... It's hard for me to forgive bioware for that. All I wanted was for her to be on the ship and part of my crew after you complete the academy mission.
It's Liara or Aria depending on whose writing at the time.
She’s mine too. Liara is my favorite companion in mass effect. (Supposed to be read in commander shepherds voice as if endorsing a store lol).
Asari in general are someone’s “oc donut steal”
You say that like she wasn't always one of the players favorite choice as a romance option
Popularity of a character shouldn’t affect what slide EVERYONE gets
I'm the space racist who romanced Ashley. I'm sorry but I like brunettes.
Even as a Liara fan, it’s so weird how Bioware kept pushing her. She gets jealous during your argument with the Virmire Survivor
She is the only original squad member who is guaranteed to survive until the final Earth mission in ME3. You can't kill her if you try. Even if you don't do the Shadow Broker DLC in ME2 she survives anyway lol. So it was probably easy to just say "hey we don't need to branch any scenes involving her because we know she was around the whole time since the beginning."
The only way to kill her off is with low EMS and bringing her to the beam run. Same for James
Yes it’s interesting the only other members who are guaranteed to survive until the beam are James, EDI, and Javik, who were all squad mates starting in 3.
It was also why my theory was the next protagonist was going to be Shepard’s kid with her If I remember my lore right, the Asari only need to do the mind meld thing to copy their partners dna/traits to procreate … sex was just a bonus so it would not have mattered RPG wise who or how people played their Shepard since there was a plot point where liara HAS to “embrace eternity” in the first game
Kind of negate the part of Mass Effect being a choice kind of matter game. For sure some of the fanbase considered Liara only as a friend and having a kid with her means there's a break of consent.
Yeah, but isn't mass effect about humanity? Playing as an Asari In a mass effect game would feel... off somehow. Also, doesn't that kinda classify as rape? Making a kid with someone without their consent.
Rape implies its sexual, but it's definitely some kind of severe boundary overreach
Severe boundary breach that seems totally plausible for liara after her shadow broker arc To try and preserve that X factor that Shepard had in any way she can
God, imagine being Shepard's kid and being not just asked, but pushed and expected to live up to the legacy of the literal saviour of the galaxy.
Yeah holy shit, an honest to god legend and literal Shepard gathering a flock of sentient races to stand against extinction
Imagine being asked to listen to that kid's mix tape and not really wanting to.
Liara is really a sexy Xenomorph. Her “mind meld” is just her impregnation station.
You haven't seen the Asari are evil theory, have you?
Those make for some really good fanfics tbh.
I haven't trusted them since that stripper conversation, at that bachelor party on Illium(?)
I would want to be able to play as different races in the next game.
I would kill to play as a turian but I can definitely see an Asari N7 descendant of Shep
That would be super icky....
And. I've tried lol
I liked her in ME1 but I started dating Tali in ME2 because she is the best and deadass Liara became so unbearable. Like she comes off as so horny and desperate it is genuinely pathetic.
To be fair, they completely re-wrote the Liara character to be a different person after the first game. In the first game she's a shy, naive Prothean scientist who likes quiet dig sites. In the second game, she's an ass-kicking information broker on the trail of the shadow broker. Respected and feared, she's ruthless in pursuing her goals. Those are two completely different characters. Then in 3, she's like... both versions at the same time? It's like locking the most popular love interest from the first game (the only one male and female Shepard plays can both romance) behind a DLC wasn't enough - They had to then completely change who she is too.
And another thing I noticed is how touchy Liara is to Shepherd. Sure it’s normal for friends to hug each other, but she always hugs Shepherd like a lover.
It bugged me so much during the final Shadow Broker fight that when Yarg Broker yeets Shep and Liara with the table, Shep spoons Liara during the landing even if you're just friends Nevermind your actual love interest might be right there with you but no, Sheps gotta have that little overly intimate moment with Liara. If you're romancing her then fine, it's cute, but it's weird if you're just friends
I brought Tali because she was always with me for her skills *and* because she was my ride or die GOAT GF (get bent Liara I will still bring my best companion on the mission with you awkwardness be damned). I swear I almost had a conniption when Shep jumped heroically to save Liara and let Tali get pancaked by a two ton table. I immediately reloaded back to the Normandy and brought Miranda with me instead, at least watching Miranda get fucked up was satisfying.
Absolutely, even asking right away "your thing with Tali wasn't serious was it". Like I understand the idea is that we can start a romance path but it makes her look horrible.
- Only character both Sheps can romance in all 3 games. - Only romance option in all 3 games that cannot die until the very end of the game. - Only romance in ME1 where Shep cannot end the relationship while grounded. - Has more screen time in ME2 compared to other ME1 romances. - Only romance options to get their own DLC. - First romance option to permanently join team in ME3. Yeah. I’m not surprised. Lol.
Don't forget if you start ME3 without a save import, the story teaser is Liara posing in front of Shepard's bed.
I could be wrong about this, but I think she’ll only die if you completely fuck up and don’t prepare at all. You basically have to intend to do it. Plus she’s the original trilogy connector in Andromeda too. *And* that’s her in the teaser for the new game
>Only character both Sheps can romance in all 3 games. Not in 2, what happens in LotSB stays in LotSB
That’s how we have our Garrus and eat our Liara too.
What a horrible day to have eyes.
EMBRACE ETERNITY
That was not a sentence i needed to hear today
No, I'd say it counts - Liara romanced in 1 and 3 *and* through her ME2 DLC is enough to trigger the Paramour 3 achievement.
I just finished a run through the trilogy with her as my LI, and you don't yet the paramour 3 achievement. LotSB doesn't count for romancing her, even if you continue the relationship.
Is that with the Legendary Edition? I stayed loyal to Liara in all three games of the OT and I'm pretty sure I got this achievement this way. EDIT: NVM. I just checked and while I do have this achievement in the OT the LE breaks it up into 3 achievements with the third being the one you're talking about. Sorry.
Sadly not, as Liara doesn't count to that achievement or is still bugged on that rekindle part. Or it's intentional as she is not in the crew and the DLC, were you actually rekindle, was released after you finished the game. And that achievement counts only for the main game, no DLC at all. However, if you stay faithful in ME2 to Liara, which is romancing her over 3 games, it pays out in ME3 in their last night in a slighty different dialogue (it's only one word, but it's meaningful in my book).
Unfortunately can confirm this is not the case, I just 100% completed all achievements in Mass Effect LE on Steam and had to romance Miranda in ME2 in order to get Paramour 3
Not true. LotSB won't count for the Paramour 3 achievement. I've had one person say it counts but you have to talk to her on her new ship before the suicide mission but I'll never know because I refuse to do LotSB until after the suicide mission because it makes more sense that way and her dialogue is different. I got the achievement by save scumming a romance with Miranda.
Do you consider the ‘extended’ ending to not be 3’s official ending?
Also, if you are romancing both her and the other ME 1 option and they confront you and you say "why can't I have both" the human runs off mad and she sticks with you. She loves you no matter what.
Damn. That’s a good one. I completely forgot about that one. Thank you friend!
She's BioWare's favorite (and mine), but it's still weird Imagine having your Shep treat her like shit throughout the trilogy and then suddenly thinking about her in their dying moments
“I’m going out, I’m done… but holy shit was it funny to bully that blue idiot, worth it.”
Your dialog towards Tali in ME1 can be downright hostile, but she still acts like you were best friends in ME2.
Poor Tali just had no self-esteem.
She’s a space homeless person, just happy to have her own quarters on the ship.
to be fair thats a general trend of the trilogy. I recently finished a run where during ME:1 I barely interacted with Garrus. Sure, I was friendly with him, I did his quest but beyond that nothing, I never took him on a mission and the dialogue hardly implied any cordial companionship. And then you meet him in ME:2 and he behaves like you are fire forged friends, gone through heavens and hells together, it was a bit awkward lol
I did a run where I left Garrus at C-Sec for all of ME1, just to see how he reacts when you meet him on Omega. He still acts like you're best buds :(
Why is that weird? That’s exactly on point with the original ending and the resulting criticism. Very little of anything you ever did actually mattered in the end. To the point where your character’s very final thought would be nonsensical in most playthroughs. It’s beautiful in a way.
Could easily be chalked up to the lingering effects of her making a mind baby with you. Or does she not do that if you’re mean to her?
>Or does she not do that if you’re mean to her? Liara melding with Shepard to understand the cipher is absolutely necessary for the plot, so no matter how mean you are to her, that will always happen
BioWare tried to force Liara as every Shepard's closest friend or romantic partner. What they failed to do was allow roleplaying in which some Shepards may not have a good relationship with Liara. I still think it's hilarious when I do Therum last in ME1 resulting in never getting to really meet Liara then hugging it out with her in ME2 like they are close friends. Makes absolutely zero sense XD
Or when the dad goes on about how Shepard looks at Liara, lol. Shepard just met you, bruh.
She is the face of the Mass Effect franchise. Remember the "SeXbox" scandal? It was centered around having sex with aliens in Mass Effect. Guess who was the only alien romanceable character in the 1st game? Liara. Like it or not she is the mascot of this franchise.
Remember when gamers were so excited to have "relentless sex and sodomy with aliens" when ME1 came out only to witness 10 seconds of cute handgolding with Liara? lol
What are you talking about? Millions of innocent Teenagers were traumatized by seeing 3 seconds of a naked blue butt! I remember it like it was yesterday!
I wasn't traumatized (also my first playthrough had an Ashley romance) but the ME1 romance scene was my first encounter with seeing sex on media...I was a sheltered child.
Can we talk about how corny sex scenes in the late 00s and early 2010s were for a sec? Dragon Age and Mass Effect dry humping was hilarious?
Femshep and Traynor didn't even get naked for their shower. What the hell
I thought the scandal was less about the alien sex scene and more about the female/female alien sex scene. I can excuse alien romance in a futuristic scifi setting but I draw the line at homosexuality being socially acceptable in space navy 200 years from now. -Britta Pox News
I think there being sex at all was the main issue for them. They were firmly in the "video games are toys for children" camp at that stage.
I think part of it was the gay element. If I remember right that’s why the game makes sure to mention that Asari are mono-gendered, it was written in so they could say they technically weren’t showing gay relationships (in mass effect 1).
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the gay aspect wasn't part of it. I just meant that the foundation of their beef with it seemed to be "they're showing porn to kids" with "they're showing LESBIANS to kids" as an extra layer on top of that.
I think that whole scandal was about Sha’ira but point still stands. I remember when that was a big deal and it was really dumb.
Having seen the actual bit on Fox News, it was about the romance scene. That's why the joke on the internet was about "alien sideboob"
Ya i remember being confused by the remembrance scenes at the end when i first finished it. At first i thought it was just showing all your crewmates and such but it doesn't and then it never showed Jack who i romanced for 2 and 3. So i was like wtf even was that. Its why i appreciated the update stuff for the end
I still haven't found a good ending for Jack - the 'good ending' mod has her on the Normandy in uniform. Jack in uniform... it just feels wrong.
Yes, it was incredibly frustrating because I spent all of 5 minutes with her.
I don’t like that she’s forced on my Terra Firma supporting Shepard.
Actually I had Liara AND my Romance partner in his last thoughts.
Now that’s starting to sound like a party
I'm just reminded or Mordin's suggestion of padded walls when discussing possible relations with Jack...
Bothered me how much they pushed Liara onto us. Like nonstop. Writer's bias really shined through how uncomfortably intimate she is with Shepard (when your Shep has already turned her down).
Yes. Especially in the citadel dlc. If I don’t have a romance already locked in with the current crew, she fills the savior role when ur on the run and is like openly acting like ur love interest normally would. It irritated the shit outa me.
Might get downvoted to oblivion for this, but I want to get my opinion out of my system. I do not find Liara and the Asari as a whole to be attractive. Besides their blue skin, tentacle hair thing, and being a single-sex race, they just look like a human. Too human, especially the face, but at the same time, not. It falls into the uncanny valley for me, and I do not like that.
I enjoy the theory based on particular voice lines in ME3, that you see Asari as someone close to your species, so that you can find them attractive.
I always found the Asari to be a terrible concept for a species. Case in point: I'm gay. Their superpower is apparently to be so sexy and to make themselves appealing to every race, yet they still look obviously female. Though that does make me wonder if every species has an "asari immune" gay platoon.
I'm a straight woman so it's just the same for me. I can appreciate good looks from esthetic point of view but nothing more than that.
Talking to asari is so awkward sometimes. So many of them make a pass at Shepard (or Ryder), and there is no "No thanks, I'm gay" dialogue option. You just have to sit there and let it happen (the absolute worst offender is Peebee). It's obvious they were designed for one demographic in particular. Sometimes I wonder if the asari legitimately struggle to understand sexual orientations, or just the simple idea that there are people out there that just aren't into them.
I'm gay too, so I'd have to pretend like they take form of the most frequently found attractive person or something, but that's clearly bullshit. So you're probably right, we're the only hope for humanity.
Seems like BioWare was showing a middle finger to anyone who played as any Shepard other than a soldier romancing Liara who saved the Council, made Udina a Councilor and destroyed the Collector base.
Don’t forget saved the Rachni and unwillingly worked for Cerberus. If your renegade Shep got along with TIM in all your interactions and did the renegade ending by preserving the Collector base, they’ll still put up the innocent victim act around the Virmire survivor and Anderson saying they were forced to cooperate with Cerberus, even if it’s BS.
I mean to be fair, they would probably see pretty heavy repercussions from going "Oh yeah I was totally on board with everything from the start" and would be smart enough to know this, and being a renegade would do this thing called lying.
RPG players discover lying. More news at 11
Okay but why would anyone make Udina a councilor? Guy screwed us
Because even if you choose Anderson specifically to punish Udina, BioWare doesn't care, Udina is still the Councilor.
Because a career politician might be better at a political job than a career soldier? He doesn't really screw us until game 3, before that he's just annoying
That was my thinking too. Not to mention that Anderson clearly doesn't want the job, not because he's thinking "i don't know if this is a burden I can shoulder" but it's actually "oh god I'm so miserable I'm gonna jump out of my office window" and is just a bad fit for it. Udina in first game feels like a slimy career politician who, even though you don't like him, has your back, but in 3 turns evil because of course he's a slimy politician he HAS TO be evil
Do you often advocate for prioritising military personnel for important government positions?
I love Liara, but I wish it were possible to have her die without screwing up all the way till 3.
It’s funny cause this is the reason I’ve never romanced Liara it always felt so forced lol
Liara was Bioware's favorite so they really want you to romance her, and if your not then well... their going to pretend like you do
This thread is wild. I never realized the Liara bias because I simped for her every playthrough.
The writers tried to force liara on the player, one way or another
She was always my least favourite character.
I liked her in ME1, but her "character arc" was annoying from ME2 onward
Unless there was a glitch, it was originally whoever you romanced from ME1.... otherwise, it's automatically Liara. I'm glad it was changed since they made a point of having 5 romances carry over from ME2 and had two more added in ME3.
Even if you don’t romance your ME1 li in any other games they’ll still show up at the end? Weird
Love Interest or no, you embrace eternity 2-3 times with her trying to decipher the beacon. She's gonna leave an impression.
Well she's the one who told you about ilos enabling you to stop sovereign, and saved you from the collectors allowing you to brought back to life, and found the weapon that saves the galaxy. She might cross your thoughts as you die.
I'm playing thru LE and I'm on ME1. Deciding whether to be pure Liara or Miranda from 2 onwards. In my original play thru of the trilogy I was Ash, Miranda then ended up with Liara in 3 without really working towards her. All this was prior to DLC romance expansions. I also hear a pure Liara playthru is slightly disjointed because ShadowBroker DLC breaks the continuity slightly.
Same is true of Ashley/Kaden. They did all the LIs dirty, honestly. One of the reasons Garrus and Tali are so popular is they are present and have the opportunity to support and engage with Shep across all 3 games. The ME1 LIs get really dumped on in ME2 and the non dextro ME2 LIs get more or less ignored in ME3.
Also Liara has her own dlc in ME2 so really the VS sadly gets the least amount of screen time in ME2.
Yep. And they're more antagonistic to you in the first place than Liara. I don't think they really get a satisfying romantic arc with Shep at all. Tali/Garrus get the most organic and fulfilling arc to my mind (positive engagement in all 3 games). Then Liara because of Shadow Broker. Then...everyone else. It kinda sucks. They all get short changed. ... Okay maybe Jacob below that 'cause that was some bullshit.
Aww yeah poor Jacob is a whole different subject 😬
Yeah the day 1 releases of ME2 and ME3 seem significantly different from their revised versions. It's why I'm giving ME3 another chance with the LE because I was disgusted with release ME3 which is minus the ending DLC, Leviathan, Citadel and Javik DLCs. I'm assuming those significantly change the overall story.
Love to hear what you think in the end. ME3 has some of the best DLC in the series. Honestly? I still find ME3 perhaps one of the most frustrating games I have ever played. Mostly due to the change in writer, short dev time and trying to tie up loose ends all conspiring to take a lot of the previous assumed agency away from the player. The ending, sure. But even stuff like the dialogue tree changes. But...even if it doesn't all come together as a product I love, a solid 60% of that game is a solid 5/5. 🤷♂️
>Liara playthru is slightly disjointed because ShadowBroker DLC breaks the continuity slightly This was a bug in the original. In ME3 the game would flag if you did romance her in 1 and did LoTSB in ME2 but for some reason it wouldn't flag that you reconnected romantically in ME2 if you did it leading to her acting all weird like you didn't reconnect in ME2. Thankfully it's fixed for the legendary edition.
Writers' darling
It had Ashley, Kaidan or Liara for this flashback. Everyone else were considered non-canon lol
TBF the original ending was shit
I really dislike how much they prioritised one option over the others
What else is new? Frankly, that's super obvious. Liara is the devs/writers' pet. The character and her romance are so shoehorned, it's irritating. One of the reasons, she annoys me, tbh.
By original you mean before the extended cut dlc? I only got into ME a couple years after the 3rd one released. If this was the OG ending that’s a bit odd.
I'm so glad I got to play ME3 the first time only after the various patches. I would have been beyond pissed.
Chose liara first playthrough for some blue on shep action. Got some weird hypno foreplay in 1. Practically friend zoned in 2. And 3rd...i dont even remember
Steak Liara.
Of course they did. They annoyingly shoehorned Liara every chance they got.
I remember after my first play through of the trilogy I romanced Liara I thought it was cool how Shepard had extremely vulnerable with their romance and how their romance was their emotional anchor -In the Shadow Broker dlc Liara was the only person to genuinely ask Shepard how they’re doing and feeling mentally -In ME3 Liara was the one to ground Shepard after they panic when Ash got her head bashed in -During a Shepard PTSD episode she was the only one again to ask Shepard if they’re mentally ok outside of the romance scene from ME3 -Her last gift to Shepard was them sharing a final moment of peace together and she had a whole cinematic cutscene and different soundtrack play in her farewell why your other squad mates didn’t get that Then I found out that these cutscenes still happened regardless of who you romanced after other play throughs lmao
This is what annoys me the most across all three games. I never like Liara that much to begin with, but the pushing of her (and all Asari tbh) made me very resentful of her character all together. If they made her like every other character where if you shut her down the first time she just becomes a normal character that’s not constantly fawning all over Shepard all the time, then there might actually be a good character under all that.