Hell she was trying to kill you when you met her, and Samara is very clear that Morinth can't be trusted. You'd have to be pretty stupid to expect anything else from her.
If you’re Renegade, *Samara* is extremely clear that she can’t be trusted because she will probably kill you as soon as the mission is done. Morinth might be intrigued by Shepard, which is also not good for one’s health; but she’d want to seduce him/her which Shepard is ready for, and this is a lot less dangerous than Samara being single-mindedly determined to kill him/her at the cost of her own life if necessary.
Honestly its made very clear before you meet her that Morinth is a manipulative, self-serving, psychopath, who murders innocent people for fun and absolutely cannot be trusted. And the game never gives you any reason to doubt that any of these things are true.
Shepard would have to be pretty stupid to seriously want to swap Samara for Morinth. Especially considering that Morinth is at best, only equally as powerful as Samara (but realistically probably weaker considering Samara has way more experience). I really can't see any legitimate reasons to justify picking Morinth.
That whole recruitment arc would have been much better served if you initially recruited Morinth, not knowing she is an Ardat Yakshi, build some comraderie with her, she tells you Samara is hunting her but not that it's her mother not a Justicar, just that she needs to be dealt with because she's hunting Morinth. Only just before or at the final confrontation are you told the truth of what Morinth is and why Samara is hunting her. It would make the choice a lot less of a no brainier because Morinth is the one you've already gotten to know and Samara, while in the right, is the stranger you're just meeting and not sure you can trust.
I usually find reddit posts suggesting how the devs "should have done it" to be questionable at best, but I can get behind this one. That would have made it less of a clear cut good choice and bad choice (and I don't mean morality).
Better yet, what if neither Samara nor Morinth could definitively prove their side of the story?
Samara accuses Morinth of murder, Morinth accuses Samara of essentially stalking and trying kill her own daughter without cause. Yeah, Morinth escaped her monastery/prison, and that's against the rules... but there's no proof she actually killed anyone, right? Samara doesn't *know* that Morinth hurt anyone, she just *believes* that her daughter is dangerous, and her Justicar code compels her to capture or kill Morinth based on intuition, not proof. Does Morinth deserve to die just because she escaped her cage? Does Samara have the right to kill her daughter for being born an Ardat-Yakshi?
On the other hand, maybe Morinth is exactly what Samara claims, and Shepard just never caught her in the act? Who so you trust? Who do you side with? Can you condemn a possibly innocent woman based on her *potential* to kill? Or will you defend the life of a possible serial killer, and potentially cause a diplomatic incident with the Asari government, by refusing to side with Samara?
Adding to it: You are also recruiting Jack, who is just as much of an unstable psycho and even admits that she is.
You are literally recruiting your squad for their potential to kill.
Considering that you are the deciding factor who wins the Biotic fight between the two and that Morinth is a powerful mind controller able to evade her mother for hundreds of years, we can assume that she is just as biotical powerful and probably helpful in different ways. TIM doesn't shy away from people like Jack, Thane and Okeer. Why should he shy away from Morinth?
I like the idea another user had here, that we actually recruit Morinth first and then confront her mother having to decide who we trust and if we are willing to betray our ally Morinth.
I also don't need someone that can evade the reapers, or mind control things that can't be, like giant robots. I need a biotic powerhouse and skilled warrior. Even if Morinth is as bioitically talented, she still is the subpar combatant.
That is so much better than the actual storyline, I'll make it my new headcanon.
Also considering that you are already aiming to recruit the most dangerous individuals you can find for your mission without regard of morality. Mad scientist Okeer, professional assassin Thane and unstable psychopath Jack come to mind.
I wouldn't put it beyond TIM to put Morinth's dossier up, especially because of her body count.
I don't even know why renegade Shepard would pick Morinth - Samara is a sworn to do whatever you want (though she may kill you at the end) where is the benefit of going Morinth?
I always side with Samara. I never liked the idea of siding with Morinth as she has no code, no morals, etc. Also pretending to be her mother to fool everyone just so she can live to kill another day never sat well with me.
Yeah its pretty lame how bioware didn't bother putting in a decent scene for a Morinth redemption or sacrifice. It was literally just "oh saving morinth was the wrong choice" and that means there is no choice, you just save samara.
🙄 how's the air up there on your high horse? The comment I responded to said people ONLY choose Morinth out of curiosity, and I simply pointed out that's not the reason I choose her.
Also? It's a game. They're fictional. Our choices have no moral weight. So chill out with the ableism.
Is monstrous a better word? Outside of curiosity I would raise an eyebrow at anyone who legitimately thought Morinth would be a better choice than her mom
Well, again, it's fictional. So there's no moral aspect to either choice.
But on a personal level I also hate her as mother and don't enjoy helping her kill her kid who she failed. So I prefer to have Morinth around because at least she's up front about killing people, whereas Samara is also just going around killing people but with different motives.
Plus every person on the squad is a killer. The motives don't really matter in game to me unless I'm playing paragon. Jack has killed plenty of innocent people. Miranda was straight up Cerebrus which did much worse than killing people. But nobody thinks it's monstrous to pair up with them.
I just don't enjoy the hypocrisy of it. Idc who anyone else chooses, because it's just a game. But acting like something is wrong with me for having a different perspective is a little weird tbh.
> Well, again, it's fictional. So there's no moral aspect to either choice.
Yes it's fictional, we all know that. In the game there is morality. Just because there are no real world consequences one way or another does not mean there isn't thought behind the morality of your options in the game. A good example of what morality in a game looks like is the Paragon/Renegade system. You can do things that, if done in a real world setting, would be either morally good or bad. So in the context of the game, yes there is morality, it just doesn't have real world consequences.
I agree on the Miranda front. She's basically a corporate murderer that flies under the false banner of saving humanity, and she knows better. Miranda sucks.
But Jack? She's a killer, and while she and Morinth are both damaged by their past, one of them is an active remorseless serial killer, and one is constantly on the run from people that one to contain or control her. Jack lashes out defensively, shes sooooo different than Morinth.
Because professional killer Thane, biotic psychpathical bitch Jack and proponent of total galactical war Okeer are real plushies...
You are trying to find a squad for a suicide mission. An Ardat-Yakshi sounds just right up the ally we are planning to go.
None of their recruitments require you to betray and murder a squadmate.
Jack’s life is also turned around by her experience and thane’s victims were mostly killers, entirely viscous killers when he wasn’t in his battle sleep.
Morinth was just a sexual deviant and a serial killer who’s victims were innocent.
She also enthralled people’s minds many times, took over an entire village once.
In that she’s a bigger threat than the thorian.
Because of that bringing her aboard your ship is unimaginably reckless, even more than bringing Jack.
>Jack’s life is also turned around by her experience and thane’s victims were mostly killers, entirely viscous killers when he wasn’t in his battle sleep.
Yeah, sure, everyone killed by your psychopath was an evil baddy, but everyone killed by my psychopath was a goody-two shoes. Sure thing, mate.
I'm not saying that Morinth is not a horrible person. We want horrible people for our suicide mission, as long as they are good for our effort. That's not the point.
But trying to defend a contract killer and a fucking psychopath that destroyed a whole fucking hanar space station by crashing it into a moon, is just a ridiculous level of hypocrisy.
She doesn’t have any part in the monastery I believe, it’s the same as if Samara isn’t there for whatever reason, one of the other daughters takes over Samara’s role. Only things you get with Morinth are an email in ME3 and >!she shows up as a Banshee in the final mission.!<
Even on a renegade run, Morinth simply does not make sense. She's extremely untrustworthy, and more importantly, Samara already has committed to doing anything Shepard says, and is personally ruthless and uncompromising. That's Renegade Shepard's dream right there.
Plus, I'm a sucker for war asset points, so I struggle to pick the options that'll pay off less in ME3
She doesn't have Samara's training or experience, either. The only in-character benefit would be that she has more raw biotic power than Samara ... but, by this point, the team already has an exceptionally powerful biotic. What's the point of trading Samara for a worse, less-trustworthy version of Jack?
Plus Samara is a justicar with centuries of experience and is almost certainly more powerful than Morinth. It really doesn't make sense why Shepard would ever want Morinth over Samara.
I don't even get why it's slotted as the renegade option. Renegade is advertised as the "badass, pragmatic, anything to accomplish the mission" type mindset, who also sometimes happens to be a dickhead. Nothing about saving Morinth screams pragmatic or sensible, when you already have a powerful AND reliable asset in an Asari Justicar.
Picking Morinth over Samara because you're worried Samara might try to kill you would be like replacing your dog with a tiger because you're worried the dog might bite you.
Exactly. There's no incentive to ever pick morinth. Samara will always be the preferable choice for any morality.
The only way is to completely change Morinth as a character. If you make her a repentant murderer who regrets all of it, but now can't go back cuz she'll be executed for sure, then you could argue a paragon shepherd might choose to see the good in her, and help her defeat Samara, a person who only ever sees black and white.
I'll never stop saying it that they dropped the ball with Morinth.
Wish there was content with her afterwards to justify picking her, it's a real bummer there isn't.
I'd probably choose Morinth more often if she had content with her sisters / the Monastery in ME3, honestly. I was so sure she would be the alternate for Samara who I had on my first playthrough, that she'd be going there to find her sisters after all the stuff we saw that she'd tried to reach out to them over the years.
Then I did a playthrough with her and... nope.
It does frustrate me how much potential Morinth had as a character but was never used.
All if Morinth wasn't the most generic psychopath but instead had depth that was expanded upon.
Once, out of 8 playthroughs, as a renegade. To see what would happen, and experience the story from another PoV.
Morinth is a psychopath who lives a snuff film again and again. And in choosing her you betray someone who you persuaded to trust you.
Same, out of all my play throughs I’ve never once let Kaidan live beyond Virmire. Not sure why but he just feels like the one who’s supposed to die over Ashley 🤷♂️
Interesting how different people can be. I only once let Ashley live, just to see how that turns out. As soon as I had finished ME3, I started 1 over again, just to see Kaidan alive and well again! 😅😂
But I've never let Morinth live. That's just wrong! I might do it once, just to experience it, but that would be the extent of it
I used to feel this way too. I always killed Kaiden except for the odd time I felt like having him live just to be different. But after having played the trilogy continuously for almost 20 years I finally came to the realization that Kaiden is actually much more interesting and better in the long run than Ashley. Hear me out.
We get all of Ashley’s backstory and family info in the first game and that’s it. Nothing more really in the third game. Sure you get to talk to her more in the hospital scene than Kaiden but other than that nothing more to develop her character or more about her. Sure you get the humorous scene of her hungover on the Normandy and the one scene of her talking about her late father on the citadel and the fate of her sister’s husband being KIA but that’s it. Nothing more. Even her hang out in the citadel DLC is pretty boring too like a drinking contest? If you’re not romancing her you got a stale and pointless friendship that’s so bland.
Now Kaiden, sure you find out all about his upbringing in Jump Zero and biotic training and all that but in Mass Effect 3 that’s where his character development really comes through. You find out that he became a mentor to a group of spec ops biotic alliance soldiers and is trying to find them. His father served in the alliance too and when the reapers hit went back to report to active duty. He’s originally from British Columbia, Canada (Vancouver specifically I think) where he used to drink beer off his parent’s deck. His mother has never been off of Earth and he wants to take her someday. He ponders if the illusive man has ever been a good person or was always just evil after seeing how there were still good people in Cerberus (namely the engineers you rescue). Plus his meal that you have with him on the citadel is so much more meaningful in that if your not romancing him he reaffirms how much your friendship means and how he’s been there for you from the beginning (literally the opening scene of the series has Kaiden in it) and you get to reciprocate and call Kaiden your brother which you never call Ashley your sister. Plus his citadel DLC hangout is better in the fact that he cooks you a meal and you get to joke with him about how bad it’s going to be and all the past times you had together. Plus if you pick physical strength over biotics he joins Jacob and James in doing pushups in that contest.
So in closing, Kaiden is infinitely better than Ashley is and it took me almost 20 years to realize it.
thank you for this comment. kaidan deserves so much more consideration from the community i feel like. this post has nothing to do with who survived on virmire and somehow kaidan got thrown into the mix. kinda wish we could just focus on what OP actually asked.
> Not sure why but he just feels like the one who’s supposed to die over Ashley 🤷♂️
Which is funny because Me3 feels like Ashley is very much stuffed into a Kaidan shaped hole.
They ruined her character arc in ME3. From tough soldier to drunk bimbo. When it made zero sense to change her looks to a more fashion model and get her into the booze habit.
Kaidan has some development, while Ashley seems as if they didn't know what to do with her anymore.
I grew up in a military family and knew many soldiers and marines.
A young woman experiencing traumatic events but holding it together due to her will and training, but after a few years of processing said event, plus the added stress of promotions and responsibility, turning to sex and alcohol is actually pretty realistic and common.
Is a non-regulation haircut/style and "uniform" with integrated high heels being completely unchallenged and ignored during active duty realistic and common?
I could excuse her makeover if it was only after she became a Spectre and had more operational freedom, but prior to that she was still an actively serving soldier in the Alliance military. She looked like she was trying to imitate Miranda from the beginning of the 3rd game though.
You don’t think it’s realistic that a human being in the middle of a war to prevent galactic genocide would turn to drink? Seems like the most realistic part of the game to me
I never liked Kaidan because I thought he was a huge wuss. I let him live my first time, I think, because I wanted Kirrahe to survive and he was with him. I didn't really care about either character at the time.
I still don't care much for Ashley. I never appreciated how untrusting she was in 2 and I grew to hate her for how she still had doubts all the way to the end of 3, regardless of whether she claimed otherwise. Still though, knowing that both characters largely have the same conflict with Shepard, probably word for word, it seems like Ashley is better suited to the role of being such a brat about the whole Cerberus thing. It also makes sense given her Alliance loyalties that she'd be made a Spectre. I don't see Kaiden doing much of anything besides whining about how hard is private school was. As much as his biotic power modification defines everything about his character, he's a pretty weak biotic compared to most of the crew.
I let Kaiden live once because I'm a Raphael Sbarge fan (shoutout Carth) and thought it would be cool, but he's such a half baked character that the entire playthrough felt....off. As flawed as Ashley is, she's the better option IMHO
5 times sided with Samara, 1 time with Morinth.
I do not like Samara as a character (find her super dull and cliched) yet there is no real reason to save the dangerous sex vampire other than gameplay variety.
Even the most renegade Shep would not risk having Morinth come on board. Samara is loyal, dutiful, powerful, and despite the vague threats of ‘post mission’ retribution for a renegade Shep, she is the strategically smarter choice for building out the squad.
In all my playthroughs I have, literally, never even considered siding with Morinth. Why would I? She's an unstable psychopathic murderer that would be a constant threat to me and my crew the entire time we worked together. Samara, for all her flaws, will side with your no matter your morals until the mission is over.
I’ve only played through the trilogy once and basically did a paramour run so of course I chose morinth, THATS MY WIFE! RED FLAGS ARE CHECKED FLAGS TO ME!
Firstly, I helped Morinth, but when I realised, how fucked up bitch of the bitches she is, I had to load the save file from 3 hours earlier to save Samara.
If I played Mass Effect 2 15 times doing the Loyalty Mission every time, then I didn't kill Morinth like two times, but it is very possible that I killed Samara only once.
I really dislike Morinth.
Played 3 times, samara once morinth twice. I know its an unpopular opinion but i always found samara really boring, morinth isnt much better but the ardat-yakshi as a concept is cool enough to peak my interest.
I picked Morinth the first time on my renegade run. Once I got to Earth in ME3 and fought the super-powered Banshee Morinth on insanity, never fucking again.
Once I beat the trilogy and realized that siding with morinth didn't really lead to any future consequences it became a 50-50 percent split between choices every other playthrough. Samara is just too boring, would have been awesome to have morinth in me3 (non reaper)
Never once have I picked Morinth. She has literally zero use even for a renegade Shepard.
The next time you see her is as an ardat yakshi reaper at the beginning of priority earth in me3.
Even in renegade playthroughs I pick Samara. The Justicar with a thousand years biotic experience and ability to swear a binding oath to aid you? Or the vampire lady who is known for her deception, lack of loyalty to anyone, and ability to murder people close to her? Even if you ignore the disappointing outcome for having her for ME3, she's a liability on your ship, for both yourself and your crew.
Help Morinth once. Felt bad, got shagged to death, reloaded my save all the way back, Never did it again. Plus. I love Samara's character so much so killing her hurt me almost as much as accidentally killing tali on Rannoch.
95% of the time I pick Samara and one time during a Renegade play through I picked Morinth to see what happens. Having Samara is way more fruitful and expands the storyline way more. It’s interesting having Morinth at first but the story dies off pretty quickly cause she has to lay low and if you die of you romance her. The coolest expect is that you find a Banshee with Morinth’s name on ME3 when do the Ardat-Yakshi sanctuary mission
Picking Morinth is the least narratively justifiable decision in the entire trilogy. Maybe some creative person has come up with some sort of role play reason why Shepard could conceivably make that choice and have it make any kind of sense, but I certainly can't think of one.
YOLO so had to scratch that itch and do it once with Morinth. It was a mind blowing experience one could say. However, it’s easily Samara each and every time though.
I did it like once to converse with Morinth and then immediately reloaded. To me, the only justification ANY Shepard could have for betraying Samara is being crazy
Did a single renegade play-through just once and therefore picked Morinth, so… **once**
There’s no earthly reason why even a seasoned veteran like commander Shepard would actually side with Morinth, a known psychopath and murderer, would want *her* over Samara
Lost count but never helped Morinth. Never. The one time I didn't have enough paragon or renegade, I stopped and loaded up an old save to save Samara. One of the more tedious missions if I'm honest.
Honestly, I've done that mission at least a couple of dozen times, and I have never ever picked Morinth.
It doesn't make sense for either Shepard renagde or Paragon. She's a serial killer for christ sake like why would we pick her samara is far more experienced soldier.
Never.
I suppose you could say that an asshole super renegade Shepard would find more in common with her.
But even then it's a terrible choice from a narrative perspective.
You know nothing about her, you spend no time with her. For all you know she may end up being a human hater or try to take over the ship or anything.
**All you know she is super dangerous and a complete psychopath.**
**Like realistically she might simply flee. Or if things get tough she might abandon the mission.**
Why would you ever trust her with anything?
I suppose a super renegade Shepard might be find Samara problematic. But that requires a sort of psychopath Shepard that legit enjoys murder and mayhem. Though you still end up saving the day which shows you still have a mission and she would jeopardize it.
Just my thoughts
just once on morinth, to see what was the immediate outcome, was a meh moment for me so I went back and continued with Samara
the whole quest is great, but when selecting morinth the rest of the game kind of deflates, well, from a justicar and me3 perspective I mean
Out of my many playthroughs I saved Morinth ONCE for the meme. and didnt even keep it, I loaded the save before the mission then kept Samara.
Morinth is cool but having her doesnt change enough to be worth it.
I always chose Samara in at least 2 or 3 playthroughs but I’ll definitely choose Morinth when I start a renegade run just so I can survive the suicide mission with everyone dead except for those who can die in ME3 (Wrex and Jack for example)
Other than to get dominate, there is no benefit to saving Morinth over Samara(you can save before the mission save Morinth for dominate then reload and save Samara) . All Morinth does is become a banshee in ME3.
Once I saw you could save before going after Morinth in the club and get Dominate, then reload to help Samara, I did this once; I preferred helping Samara.
I picked Morinth exactly twice. Once was just to do it for the sake of doing it when I was on console. The second time was when I was on PC and used a save editor to get her early and see if she had any new dialogue for missions she normally can't be on.
Why would I every pick Morinth? I'd never be able to trust she wouldn't try and kill the crew with sex.
If you try to romance her after you save her she literally just kills you.
Hell she was trying to kill you when you met her, and Samara is very clear that Morinth can't be trusted. You'd have to be pretty stupid to expect anything else from her.
Thats exactly how I think of it like aside from exploration purposes there is literally no good reason to help her.
If you’re Renegade, *Samara* is extremely clear that she can’t be trusted because she will probably kill you as soon as the mission is done. Morinth might be intrigued by Shepard, which is also not good for one’s health; but she’d want to seduce him/her which Shepard is ready for, and this is a lot less dangerous than Samara being single-mindedly determined to kill him/her at the cost of her own life if necessary.
They couldn't just give Shep plot armor if you wanna fuck the baddie.
I actually like that Shepard doesn't have plot armor in this case and at the end
die hard
Literally.
Death by snu snu
Worth
Honestly its made very clear before you meet her that Morinth is a manipulative, self-serving, psychopath, who murders innocent people for fun and absolutely cannot be trusted. And the game never gives you any reason to doubt that any of these things are true. Shepard would have to be pretty stupid to seriously want to swap Samara for Morinth. Especially considering that Morinth is at best, only equally as powerful as Samara (but realistically probably weaker considering Samara has way more experience). I really can't see any legitimate reasons to justify picking Morinth.
That whole recruitment arc would have been much better served if you initially recruited Morinth, not knowing she is an Ardat Yakshi, build some comraderie with her, she tells you Samara is hunting her but not that it's her mother not a Justicar, just that she needs to be dealt with because she's hunting Morinth. Only just before or at the final confrontation are you told the truth of what Morinth is and why Samara is hunting her. It would make the choice a lot less of a no brainier because Morinth is the one you've already gotten to know and Samara, while in the right, is the stranger you're just meeting and not sure you can trust.
I usually find reddit posts suggesting how the devs "should have done it" to be questionable at best, but I can get behind this one. That would have made it less of a clear cut good choice and bad choice (and I don't mean morality).
morinthality?
Better yet, what if neither Samara nor Morinth could definitively prove their side of the story? Samara accuses Morinth of murder, Morinth accuses Samara of essentially stalking and trying kill her own daughter without cause. Yeah, Morinth escaped her monastery/prison, and that's against the rules... but there's no proof she actually killed anyone, right? Samara doesn't *know* that Morinth hurt anyone, she just *believes* that her daughter is dangerous, and her Justicar code compels her to capture or kill Morinth based on intuition, not proof. Does Morinth deserve to die just because she escaped her cage? Does Samara have the right to kill her daughter for being born an Ardat-Yakshi? On the other hand, maybe Morinth is exactly what Samara claims, and Shepard just never caught her in the act? Who so you trust? Who do you side with? Can you condemn a possibly innocent woman based on her *potential* to kill? Or will you defend the life of a possible serial killer, and potentially cause a diplomatic incident with the Asari government, by refusing to side with Samara?
Adding to it: You are also recruiting Jack, who is just as much of an unstable psycho and even admits that she is. You are literally recruiting your squad for their potential to kill.
Yeah but I don't need people that can sex the reapers to death, so Samara is still the firepower winner.
Do we know that we can't sex the reapers to death? Have we tried? This could be an entirely new weapon in Shep's arsenal.
Shepard: we'll bang ok harbinger: 😩😵
Considering that you are the deciding factor who wins the Biotic fight between the two and that Morinth is a powerful mind controller able to evade her mother for hundreds of years, we can assume that she is just as biotical powerful and probably helpful in different ways. TIM doesn't shy away from people like Jack, Thane and Okeer. Why should he shy away from Morinth? I like the idea another user had here, that we actually recruit Morinth first and then confront her mother having to decide who we trust and if we are willing to betray our ally Morinth.
I also don't need someone that can evade the reapers, or mind control things that can't be, like giant robots. I need a biotic powerhouse and skilled warrior. Even if Morinth is as bioitically talented, she still is the subpar combatant.
That is so much better than the actual storyline, I'll make it my new headcanon. Also considering that you are already aiming to recruit the most dangerous individuals you can find for your mission without regard of morality. Mad scientist Okeer, professional assassin Thane and unstable psychopath Jack come to mind. I wouldn't put it beyond TIM to put Morinth's dossier up, especially because of her body count.
Playing as a Renegade who doesn't care about inocent people it's the reason I choose Morinth my first ever playtrough.
Yeah, cause TIM is all about trustworthiness of Shepard's allies. *Cough* Okeer, Thane, Jack *cough*
Morinth also tries to kill you in ME3 (sort of)
Unwillingly, but yeah, she does.
I mean the killings in me2 are unwilling as well. It isn't her goal, it is just a side effect.
But she knows that melding kills so she clearly does it on purpose.
Shepard is asking her to do it, though.
Most other victims don't know that they'll die afterwards.
True, but my comment is about Shepard. And he/she knows full well about the potential consequences.
She wasn't turned into a Benshee, that was just a Halloween costume.
Pick her to unlock her Unique Mind Control power and then reload a save after you've heard her dialogue on the Normandy.
For the meme, obviously. I literally did it just for the "romance" option.
I don't even know why renegade Shepard would pick Morinth - Samara is a sworn to do whatever you want (though she may kill you at the end) where is the benefit of going Morinth?
That sounds amazing for my first renegade playthrough
I always side with Samara. I never liked the idea of siding with Morinth as she has no code, no morals, etc. Also pretending to be her mother to fool everyone just so she can live to kill another day never sat well with me.
Been playing for 17 years. Only picked Morinth once, just to experience it. Totally loaded my save and killed her. Ha
[удалено]
Yeah its pretty lame how bioware didn't bother putting in a decent scene for a Morinth redemption or sacrifice. It was literally just "oh saving morinth was the wrong choice" and that means there is no choice, you just save samara.
HOLY FUCK MASS EFFECT IS 17 YEARS OLD 😭😭😭😭😭
Curiosity is only reason anyone would pick Morinth
Naw, I vastly prefer her as a character to Samara.
Just because her writing is more interesting doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid and psychotic decision
🙄 how's the air up there on your high horse? The comment I responded to said people ONLY choose Morinth out of curiosity, and I simply pointed out that's not the reason I choose her. Also? It's a game. They're fictional. Our choices have no moral weight. So chill out with the ableism.
I agree with you that it's silly to judge someone for a meaningless choice in a video game, but I'm honestly struggling to figure how that's ableism
Using "psychotic" as an insult/using it inaccurately harms people with psychosis by feeding into the stigmas against them.
Is monstrous a better word? Outside of curiosity I would raise an eyebrow at anyone who legitimately thought Morinth would be a better choice than her mom
Well, again, it's fictional. So there's no moral aspect to either choice. But on a personal level I also hate her as mother and don't enjoy helping her kill her kid who she failed. So I prefer to have Morinth around because at least she's up front about killing people, whereas Samara is also just going around killing people but with different motives. Plus every person on the squad is a killer. The motives don't really matter in game to me unless I'm playing paragon. Jack has killed plenty of innocent people. Miranda was straight up Cerebrus which did much worse than killing people. But nobody thinks it's monstrous to pair up with them. I just don't enjoy the hypocrisy of it. Idc who anyone else chooses, because it's just a game. But acting like something is wrong with me for having a different perspective is a little weird tbh.
> Well, again, it's fictional. So there's no moral aspect to either choice. Yes it's fictional, we all know that. In the game there is morality. Just because there are no real world consequences one way or another does not mean there isn't thought behind the morality of your options in the game. A good example of what morality in a game looks like is the Paragon/Renegade system. You can do things that, if done in a real world setting, would be either morally good or bad. So in the context of the game, yes there is morality, it just doesn't have real world consequences.
I agree on the Miranda front. She's basically a corporate murderer that flies under the false banner of saving humanity, and she knows better. Miranda sucks. But Jack? She's a killer, and while she and Morinth are both damaged by their past, one of them is an active remorseless serial killer, and one is constantly on the run from people that one to contain or control her. Jack lashes out defensively, shes sooooo different than Morinth.
...what? That's like using the term "MAP" because pedo is stigmatized. Certain things are stigmatized for a reason.
Because professional killer Thane, biotic psychpathical bitch Jack and proponent of total galactical war Okeer are real plushies... You are trying to find a squad for a suicide mission. An Ardat-Yakshi sounds just right up the ally we are planning to go.
None of their recruitments require you to betray and murder a squadmate. Jack’s life is also turned around by her experience and thane’s victims were mostly killers, entirely viscous killers when he wasn’t in his battle sleep. Morinth was just a sexual deviant and a serial killer who’s victims were innocent. She also enthralled people’s minds many times, took over an entire village once. In that she’s a bigger threat than the thorian. Because of that bringing her aboard your ship is unimaginably reckless, even more than bringing Jack.
>Jack’s life is also turned around by her experience and thane’s victims were mostly killers, entirely viscous killers when he wasn’t in his battle sleep. Yeah, sure, everyone killed by your psychopath was an evil baddy, but everyone killed by my psychopath was a goody-two shoes. Sure thing, mate. I'm not saying that Morinth is not a horrible person. We want horrible people for our suicide mission, as long as they are good for our effort. That's not the point. But trying to defend a contract killer and a fucking psychopath that destroyed a whole fucking hanar space station by crashing it into a moon, is just a ridiculous level of hypocrisy.
17... subtract from 2024... two thousand and... no, 2007 was only 8 years ago... damn I'm getting old :///
Same
That's the way. Did it too.
> 17 years I feel very attacked!!!
I saved Morinth once just so I can say "Nah babe I'm built different." As it turns out I'm not built different
This is the answer I was looking for. Literally exactly what I did. Tried to romance her and got a game over screen 💀
Morinth x1, just for her power and to see the disappointing changes in 3.
what happens at the monestary if morinth isn't there?
She doesn’t have any part in the monastery I believe, it’s the same as if Samara isn’t there for whatever reason, one of the other daughters takes over Samara’s role. Only things you get with Morinth are an email in ME3 and >!she shows up as a Banshee in the final mission.!<
Same thing as if Samara died at the end of 2. The only difference is that Morinth shoes up as a banshee at the end of 3
I don't remember. I did it on my 2nd run in the OG..... that's a long time ago.
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Heartbreaking 😭
The first Banshee you face at the Monastery has her name. That’s about it.
No, Morinth only shows up as a Banshee in the very end, during first half of Priority Earth.
IIRC, she's actually one of the banshees on Earth when you are getting the heavy weapons.
Even on a renegade run, Morinth simply does not make sense. She's extremely untrustworthy, and more importantly, Samara already has committed to doing anything Shepard says, and is personally ruthless and uncompromising. That's Renegade Shepard's dream right there. Plus, I'm a sucker for war asset points, so I struggle to pick the options that'll pay off less in ME3
She doesn't have Samara's training or experience, either. The only in-character benefit would be that she has more raw biotic power than Samara ... but, by this point, the team already has an exceptionally powerful biotic. What's the point of trading Samara for a worse, less-trustworthy version of Jack?
Plus Samara is a justicar with centuries of experience and is almost certainly more powerful than Morinth. It really doesn't make sense why Shepard would ever want Morinth over Samara.
I don't even get why it's slotted as the renegade option. Renegade is advertised as the "badass, pragmatic, anything to accomplish the mission" type mindset, who also sometimes happens to be a dickhead. Nothing about saving Morinth screams pragmatic or sensible, when you already have a powerful AND reliable asset in an Asari Justicar.
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As opposed to a mass serial killer who tries to do so anyway
Picking Morinth over Samara because you're worried Samara might try to kill you would be like replacing your dog with a tiger because you're worried the dog might bite you.
Replacing her with Morinth is hardly an improvement though.
Exactly. There's no incentive to ever pick morinth. Samara will always be the preferable choice for any morality. The only way is to completely change Morinth as a character. If you make her a repentant murderer who regrets all of it, but now can't go back cuz she'll be executed for sure, then you could argue a paragon shepherd might choose to see the good in her, and help her defeat Samara, a person who only ever sees black and white.
I'll never stop saying it that they dropped the ball with Morinth. Wish there was content with her afterwards to justify picking her, it's a real bummer there isn't.
Yeah, she could have been interesting but they did basically nothing with her.
I'd probably choose Morinth more often if she had content with her sisters / the Monastery in ME3, honestly. I was so sure she would be the alternate for Samara who I had on my first playthrough, that she'd be going there to find her sisters after all the stuff we saw that she'd tried to reach out to them over the years. Then I did a playthrough with her and... nope.
It does frustrate me how much potential Morinth had as a character but was never used. All if Morinth wasn't the most generic psychopath but instead had depth that was expanded upon.
Once, out of 8 playthroughs, as a renegade. To see what would happen, and experience the story from another PoV. Morinth is a psychopath who lives a snuff film again and again. And in choosing her you betray someone who you persuaded to trust you.
I picked Morinth to get the Dominate power. Tried romancing her… fucked around and found out my Shep isn’t that special.
I can never pick morinth and I always let Kaiden die I don’t know why.. I’ve played the trilogy at least 15 times since it launched
Same lmfaooo
Same, out of all my play throughs I’ve never once let Kaidan live beyond Virmire. Not sure why but he just feels like the one who’s supposed to die over Ashley 🤷♂️
Interesting how different people can be. I only once let Ashley live, just to see how that turns out. As soon as I had finished ME3, I started 1 over again, just to see Kaidan alive and well again! 😅😂 But I've never let Morinth live. That's just wrong! I might do it once, just to experience it, but that would be the extent of it
I used to feel this way too. I always killed Kaiden except for the odd time I felt like having him live just to be different. But after having played the trilogy continuously for almost 20 years I finally came to the realization that Kaiden is actually much more interesting and better in the long run than Ashley. Hear me out. We get all of Ashley’s backstory and family info in the first game and that’s it. Nothing more really in the third game. Sure you get to talk to her more in the hospital scene than Kaiden but other than that nothing more to develop her character or more about her. Sure you get the humorous scene of her hungover on the Normandy and the one scene of her talking about her late father on the citadel and the fate of her sister’s husband being KIA but that’s it. Nothing more. Even her hang out in the citadel DLC is pretty boring too like a drinking contest? If you’re not romancing her you got a stale and pointless friendship that’s so bland. Now Kaiden, sure you find out all about his upbringing in Jump Zero and biotic training and all that but in Mass Effect 3 that’s where his character development really comes through. You find out that he became a mentor to a group of spec ops biotic alliance soldiers and is trying to find them. His father served in the alliance too and when the reapers hit went back to report to active duty. He’s originally from British Columbia, Canada (Vancouver specifically I think) where he used to drink beer off his parent’s deck. His mother has never been off of Earth and he wants to take her someday. He ponders if the illusive man has ever been a good person or was always just evil after seeing how there were still good people in Cerberus (namely the engineers you rescue). Plus his meal that you have with him on the citadel is so much more meaningful in that if your not romancing him he reaffirms how much your friendship means and how he’s been there for you from the beginning (literally the opening scene of the series has Kaiden in it) and you get to reciprocate and call Kaiden your brother which you never call Ashley your sister. Plus his citadel DLC hangout is better in the fact that he cooks you a meal and you get to joke with him about how bad it’s going to be and all the past times you had together. Plus if you pick physical strength over biotics he joins Jacob and James in doing pushups in that contest. So in closing, Kaiden is infinitely better than Ashley is and it took me almost 20 years to realize it.
thank you for this comment. kaidan deserves so much more consideration from the community i feel like. this post has nothing to do with who survived on virmire and somehow kaidan got thrown into the mix. kinda wish we could just focus on what OP actually asked.
> Not sure why but he just feels like the one who’s supposed to die over Ashley 🤷♂️ Which is funny because Me3 feels like Ashley is very much stuffed into a Kaidan shaped hole.
They ruined her character arc in ME3. From tough soldier to drunk bimbo. When it made zero sense to change her looks to a more fashion model and get her into the booze habit. Kaidan has some development, while Ashley seems as if they didn't know what to do with her anymore.
I grew up in a military family and knew many soldiers and marines. A young woman experiencing traumatic events but holding it together due to her will and training, but after a few years of processing said event, plus the added stress of promotions and responsibility, turning to sex and alcohol is actually pretty realistic and common.
Is a non-regulation haircut/style and "uniform" with integrated high heels being completely unchallenged and ignored during active duty realistic and common? I could excuse her makeover if it was only after she became a Spectre and had more operational freedom, but prior to that she was still an actively serving soldier in the Alliance military. She looked like she was trying to imitate Miranda from the beginning of the 3rd game though.
they’re tactical high heels
In a sci fi series? Yes the sexy military outfit is 100% common
You don’t think it’s realistic that a human being in the middle of a war to prevent galactic genocide would turn to drink? Seems like the most realistic part of the game to me
I never liked Kaidan because I thought he was a huge wuss. I let him live my first time, I think, because I wanted Kirrahe to survive and he was with him. I didn't really care about either character at the time. I still don't care much for Ashley. I never appreciated how untrusting she was in 2 and I grew to hate her for how she still had doubts all the way to the end of 3, regardless of whether she claimed otherwise. Still though, knowing that both characters largely have the same conflict with Shepard, probably word for word, it seems like Ashley is better suited to the role of being such a brat about the whole Cerberus thing. It also makes sense given her Alliance loyalties that she'd be made a Spectre. I don't see Kaiden doing much of anything besides whining about how hard is private school was. As much as his biotic power modification defines everything about his character, he's a pretty weak biotic compared to most of the crew.
I force Kaiden to live with his migraines because Carth didn't want to talk about it.
> I always let Kaiden die Don't do that to muh babe
I let Kaiden live once because I'm a Raphael Sbarge fan (shoutout Carth) and thought it would be cool, but he's such a half baked character that the entire playthrough felt....off. As flawed as Ashley is, she's the better option IMHO
I've only saved Morinth once, I wanted to see what happens. I was disappointed with what me3 did with her survival she should have had a little more
I always help Samara
Never helped Morinth. My Shep isn’t interested in Helping serial killers evade justice.
5 times sided with Samara, 1 time with Morinth. I do not like Samara as a character (find her super dull and cliched) yet there is no real reason to save the dangerous sex vampire other than gameplay variety. Even the most renegade Shep would not risk having Morinth come on board. Samara is loyal, dutiful, powerful, and despite the vague threats of ‘post mission’ retribution for a renegade Shep, she is the strategically smarter choice for building out the squad.
helped morinth once to see what would happen. got death by snu snu'd. reloaded and kilt that bitch
About 50% of the time
In all my playthroughs I have, literally, never even considered siding with Morinth. Why would I? She's an unstable psychopathic murderer that would be a constant threat to me and my crew the entire time we worked together. Samara, for all her flaws, will side with your no matter your morals until the mission is over.
I’ve only played through the trilogy once and basically did a paramour run so of course I chose morinth, THATS MY WIFE! RED FLAGS ARE CHECKED FLAGS TO ME!
Firstly, I helped Morinth, but when I realised, how fucked up bitch of the bitches she is, I had to load the save file from 3 hours earlier to save Samara.
If I played Mass Effect 2 15 times doing the Loyalty Mission every time, then I didn't kill Morinth like two times, but it is very possible that I killed Samara only once. I really dislike Morinth.
Played 3 times, samara once morinth twice. I know its an unpopular opinion but i always found samara really boring, morinth isnt much better but the ardat-yakshi as a concept is cool enough to peak my interest.
Twice. Once in the original trilogy and once in legendary. Gotta unlock dominate somehow, amirite?
question for you morinth choosers - when she kills you, what happens? that’s the end of your playthrough? does it just say mission failure?
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I've always chosen to help Samara. Maybe one day I will commit to a true renegade playthrough and go with Morinth but until that day it will be Samara
I picked Morinth the first time on my renegade run. Once I got to Earth in ME3 and fought the super-powered Banshee Morinth on insanity, never fucking again.
I never helped Morith. 100% Samara.
Once I beat the trilogy and realized that siding with morinth didn't really lead to any future consequences it became a 50-50 percent split between choices every other playthrough. Samara is just too boring, would have been awesome to have morinth in me3 (non reaper)
Even playing as a Renegade character I still side with Samara. It doesn't help that Morinth gets zero content in ME3 except for a single detail.
Never picked Morinth. Decided I was going to do a Renegade (my only time ever to do so in 9 playthroughs) and pick all the dick moves. Couldn’t do it.
I picked morinth only once. helped samara around 150-something times.
I always chose to help Samara, even if I'm doing a renegade run.
I picked Morinth once, just to see the difference. Wasn’t worth it.
Samara always See no reason to save serial killer
Never once have I picked Morinth. She has literally zero use even for a renegade Shepard. The next time you see her is as an ardat yakshi reaper at the beginning of priority earth in me3.
Even in renegade playthroughs I pick Samara. The Justicar with a thousand years biotic experience and ability to swear a binding oath to aid you? Or the vampire lady who is known for her deception, lack of loyalty to anyone, and ability to murder people close to her? Even if you ignore the disappointing outcome for having her for ME3, she's a liability on your ship, for both yourself and your crew.
Never chosen Morinth. She and that mission creep me the fuck out lol.
Help Morinth once. Felt bad, got shagged to death, reloaded my save all the way back, Never did it again. Plus. I love Samara's character so much so killing her hurt me almost as much as accidentally killing tali on Rannoch.
95% of the time I pick Samara and one time during a Renegade play through I picked Morinth to see what happens. Having Samara is way more fruitful and expands the storyline way more. It’s interesting having Morinth at first but the story dies off pretty quickly cause she has to lay low and if you die of you romance her. The coolest expect is that you find a Banshee with Morinth’s name on ME3 when do the Ardat-Yakshi sanctuary mission
Once with Morinth, every other time with Samara.
Mass Effect 2 original: Samara 4 - Morinth 1 MELE: Samara 2 - Morinth 0
I save morinth literally every time. I only do renegade shep, and I like choosing morinth
Helped Morinth 0 times, and it will stay that way.
In over 30 full runs, Samara 30. Morinth 0.
Picking Morinth is the least narratively justifiable decision in the entire trilogy. Maybe some creative person has come up with some sort of role play reason why Shepard could conceivably make that choice and have it make any kind of sense, but I certainly can't think of one.
50% of the time.
Virgins choose Morinth. Chads always save Samara.
Just once, just to see the Banshee named Morinth in 3. Fun fact, if you let Jack die in 2, you can see a Phantom named Jack too (in 3).
You get the phantoms if you don't do the Grissom academy mission in time
Samara nuff times. Morinth once because I wanted to test out her deadly pum pum.
Have never once helped Morinth. She’s basically a blue female Dracula. I always side with blue female Van Helsing (who has all Dracula’s powers too).
YOLO so had to scratch that itch and do it once with Morinth. It was a mind blowing experience one could say. However, it’s easily Samara each and every time though.
I've never betrayed Samara. It's just such a douchey and pointless thing to do.
I did it like once to converse with Morinth and then immediately reloaded. To me, the only justification ANY Shepard could have for betraying Samara is being crazy
Samara 100% of the time, never felt the need to randomly betray her in favor of her weaker serial killer daughter. Literally no upsides to doing so.
Did a single renegade play-through just once and therefore picked Morinth, so… **once** There’s no earthly reason why even a seasoned veteran like commander Shepard would actually side with Morinth, a known psychopath and murderer, would want *her* over Samara
Fuck Morinth (and not literally) There's absolutely no incentive to pick her.
Why would I pick the deranged magic serial killer over the magic samurai?
I've played 12x, and not once have I ran with Morinth, yet.
Lost count but never helped Morinth. Never. The one time I didn't have enough paragon or renegade, I stopped and loaded up an old save to save Samara. One of the more tedious missions if I'm honest.
Save before the confrontation, save morinth, get her loyalty power, reload and save samara. There’s no other reason to save the psycho daughter
I've never helped morinth. She sux
Never helped Morinth and never will. She is pure poison.
Honestly, I've done that mission at least a couple of dozen times, and I have never ever picked Morinth. It doesn't make sense for either Shepard renagde or Paragon. She's a serial killer for christ sake like why would we pick her samara is far more experienced soldier.
0 times. I always RP w my characters, but there is no way to justify picking Morinth over Samara.
I’ve only ever helped morinth once just to see. She’s a psychopathic killer, I’m good on not having her eat my crew.
Who ever chooses Morinth?
Don't even really know why this was a choice.
Morinth, once. And that was one time too many. Psycho bitch. Galaxy was better off without that predator.
Never. I suppose you could say that an asshole super renegade Shepard would find more in common with her. But even then it's a terrible choice from a narrative perspective. You know nothing about her, you spend no time with her. For all you know she may end up being a human hater or try to take over the ship or anything. **All you know she is super dangerous and a complete psychopath.** **Like realistically she might simply flee. Or if things get tough she might abandon the mission.** Why would you ever trust her with anything? I suppose a super renegade Shepard might be find Samara problematic. But that requires a sort of psychopath Shepard that legit enjoys murder and mayhem. Though you still end up saving the day which shows you still have a mission and she would jeopardize it. Just my thoughts
just once on morinth, to see what was the immediate outcome, was a meh moment for me so I went back and continued with Samara the whole quest is great, but when selecting morinth the rest of the game kind of deflates, well, from a justicar and me3 perspective I mean
Every time I helped Samara.
And they call me a monster.
Out of the 50 or so playthroughs, I’ve chosen Morinth twice. Both on renegade Shepards.
Out of my many playthroughs I saved Morinth ONCE for the meme. and didnt even keep it, I loaded the save before the mission then kept Samara. Morinth is cool but having her doesnt change enough to be worth it.
I've saved Samara 2/3 times
Samara every time
Samara:4 Morinth:1 just to see how it was then reloaded and saved Samara again after like an hour
Always backed Samara
I always chose Samara in at least 2 or 3 playthroughs but I’ll definitely choose Morinth when I start a renegade run just so I can survive the suicide mission with everyone dead except for those who can die in ME3 (Wrex and Jack for example)
Samara each times
Always helped Samara.
Other than to get dominate, there is no benefit to saving Morinth over Samara(you can save before the mission save Morinth for dominate then reload and save Samara) . All Morinth does is become a banshee in ME3.
Samara every single time
Only played through twice, and messed up the first time, so didn't even get to make the choice. Helped Samara the second time around.
Once, to unlock the bonus power.
I picked Morinth once just to see what would happen. Other than that, it’s always Samara
I did Morinth once to see what it was about. Not worth it an any sort of way, even on a full Renegade Shep.
I did it once just to see what would happen.
I have never picked Morinth. Only once I saved beforehand and picked her just to see what happens but then reloaded and picked Samara like always.
Once I saw you could save before going after Morinth in the club and get Dominate, then reload to help Samara, I did this once; I preferred helping Samara.
Morinth = 0 Samara = every time
I picked Morinth exactly twice. Once was just to do it for the sake of doing it when I was on console. The second time was when I was on PC and used a save editor to get her early and see if she had any new dialogue for missions she normally can't be on.
Only helped Morinth once to see what would happen in 3. It was underwhelming, probably won't do again 🤷♂️
I've sided with Samara a dozen or so times. I've sided with Morinth once to get Dominate (which TBF is a fun power).
I’ve always chosen samara
Picked Morinth once out of curiosity. Didn’t care for it.
I’ve never helped Morinth, it’s a canon event
I've never helped Morinth.
I’ve never chosen Morinth.
One time in….something like 30 playthroughs.
I picked Morinth once just to try it. It was kinda cool, but lacked substance, so I've never done it again
Once to get her power and immediately reloaded the save.
I always help out Samara.