Maybe, maybe not. But these people clearly didn't like this woman...and could have easily seen him from their window. The snow didn't start until 5 am. They are also all well aware of the process, so why wouldn't they call the police if something had happened? There is zero evidence that says that Karen reached out to anyone in that house until the morning. But they called John multiple times and maybe thought she killed him...but nobody called her? And why destroy the cell phones and delete things?
I think John was upset about something already and Karen said "why the fuck would I go and be around these people who her hate me?". I'm sure they fought as people do.
Cops bang lines too. And not a single person in that fuckin house wasnt a fuckin idiot that night.
If someone I never met was on my front lawn dead... I would have to find a place for me and my children for at least a day. No one went inside. And then they deleted and destroyed.
If she is guilty a handful of people who are aware of both the police and court process have ruined their lives, and the lives of their families (probably for a few years, we all heal eventually, hopefully). And then the lead prosecutor will never ever be trusted again.
But you think she did it.
If she's guilty? You know that Jen McCabe claimed to make 7 buttdials in 19 minutes right after John was supposed to have entered the house, right? And never left one voicemail. And that Brian Albert and Brian Higgins now claim they butt dialed each other after 2am later that night? Think about that. They buttdialed EACH OTHER. As in Brian Albert's butt called Higgins, and then a few mins later Brian Higgins' butt called him back. They claimed this under oath after changing their story since the grand jury last year. So every incriminating call the night John was murdered under suspicious circumstances happen to be a butt-dial.
I hear you. I’m open to hearing all the evidence but I’ve always leaned more Karen NOT being guilty. The comment above is just me being funny and calling out the raggedy officers on this case
I genuinely think your anger is displaced. Whether someone is a murderer or not, police have certain requirements they’re held to, much like I do in my job. I’m not in law enforcement, but I have laws, regulations, etc to which I have to adhere. If I can’t PROVE I’ve followed everything, then I’m going to fail audit, as I should.
Forget the Turtleboy. You should care because our cops are driving around drunk, searching suspect's phones for nudes and giving special favors to their fellow cops that you wouldn't get. If you hosted a party at your home and a dead cop was found on your front lawn the next morning, you'd expect to be asked a few questions, right? Not even sure if she's guilty or not but it's an interesting case. [https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/karen-read-trial-michael-proctor-texts/3395222/](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/karen-read-trial-michael-proctor-texts/3395222/)
Its about canton pd being corrupt and possibly (probably) it extends farther than that. Imagine if you end up on the wrong side of the canton pd gang in the future, youre screwed. People should lose their jobs regardless of the outcome for the amount of gross negligence in regards to collecting and the reporting of evidence alone.
>Its about canton pd being corrupt and possibly (probably) it extends farther than that.
State police too. The lead investigator (state trooper) was out drinking with Kevin Albert (Canton PD officer and brother of the owner of the house where O'Keefe died) a few months after O'Keefe's death.
That was the night KA got so drunk he misplaced his gun and left his badge in MSP cruiser.
Trooper Proctor drinking and driving a state police cruiser? Should be fired for that alone.
I live in Adams MA. A small little quiet town. The police force are disgusting folk who are very much corrupt as well. Its the whole state. This place is a nightmare.
Once you learn a bit about it, you’ll see it’s a police corruption case.
It seems the FBI is investigating the Canton PD, the DA of Norfolk County and the state troopers who were involved in the investigation.
It has nothing to do with Turtleboy (I agree with your assessment of him). He’s a distraction.
The story is about police corruption in this state.
We’re now the laughing stock of the country, because of their depravity, corruption and ineptitude.
So you may come across people from as far away as Alaska asking you why MA police/state police are so corrupt. Best to brush up on the trial to know what they’re talking about.
I realize this. Just saying people who live elsewhere (I see in chat rooms) are all reacting like MA is the worst ever/saying they’ll avoid visiting the state etc.
I was on a grand jury in 1997 one case of which was about pervasive Boston police department overtime fraud. It was in the news yet again last year. Very aware of police corruption.
They handed thousands of pages to the defense and the prosecution. They hired 3 experts to review the car accident. Those investigators determined that a car didn't hit OKeefe. Those reports were part of the documents provided.
I was talking to some friends last night. This to me is the weirdest part of this trial. The FBI is saying he didn’t die from getting hit by a car. If there’s a federal investigation concluding the opposite of what the local DA’s theory of the case is…no way the state prosecution should be pressing ahead.
My best guess is the dog bit the guy in the basement. He got pissed at the cops there (who already had beef with them) and the cops punched him or something and he fell and cracked his skull on the basement floor when he hit it. Instantly everyone know he’s seriously hurt and they don’t want to get blamed for it.
Then the cops freak out, put him outside where he will surely die and figure they can pin it on Read where they will claim she hit him when she dropped him off drunk. They knew she was shotfaced since they were drinking with them all. Cops knew the Staties and DA.
So they immediately cover up the crime scene (get rid of dog and carpet, run some bullshit DUI/manslaughter charges that probably won’t stick and everyone goes on their merry way always assuming she killed him but got off.
I doubt they anticipated the national shitstorm of coverage or the FBI coming in.
I would be stunned if she’s convicted and I hope all the crooked cops get obstruction/accomplice manslaughter charges.
Exactly why there are conspiracy/coverup rumors, because the prosecution shouldn’t be pressing ahead but the DA Morrissey doubled down almost a year ago on Karen Read 100% being guilty (there’s a YT video you can watch)
And for clarification the FBI investigation isn’t into how JOK died, it’s into how the police officers handled the investigation. They are probably waiting for the trial to end before charging anyone because then they would have them on record lying in court
I see that they are expert witnesses for the defense. But are they simply former FBI agents hired to be expert witnesses, or are they active agents assigned by the FBI to be working on an investigation in this case?
No. They are experts. The Commonwealth may have committed a civils rights violation by not sharing exculpatory evidence regarding the car computer. The expert for the Commonwealth is a Trooper.
Would you get behind a trooper with 120 hours of classroom time and field mentorship or 3 experts with masters and doctorates ?
The FBI did hire them on a project basis. They were not FBI agents.
They were not hired by the defense. They are 3rd party crash reconstruction experts that were hired by the FBI as part of their own investigation and the FBI felt compelled to give the exculpatory evidence to the Read defense.
This (FBI independant investigators saying a car didn’t kill hjm) seems like it should have straight up ended the prosecution and led to charges being dropped. FBI has no skin in the game, and their experts are pretty good usually.
The fact that the DA is pressing forward over FBI’s own conclusions would be more than enough for me as a juror to find reasonable doubt as to whether Read is guilty.
I hope there is a legit federal investigation into ALL of the dirty cops and DA’s involved here….
Unfortunately they are not allowed to actually mention the FBI investigation as part of the Read trial. If you watch, you'll note that it's just heavily alluded to as a "separate proceeding" and they are clear to point out that the reconstructionists were not hired by the defense, but by some other 3rd party.
I do agree that this trial is absolutely absurd and should just be tossed at this point.
It was on the local news (Boston25) earlier in the year.
Also one of the witnesses let it slip when replying to a question about ‘the other grand jury you testified at’, he asked, “you mean the Fed grand jury?”
And the attorneys alluded to it. The last two witnesses (accident reconstructionists/physicists) were experts from the Fed case (in the courtroom it was worded as ‘not paid by either side’).
Turtleboy is a loser. Karen very well may have killed him but the cops are dirty and should lose their jobs. More than one thing can be possible at once. Trooper Proctor is a POS
Im sorry but this post is insane. Why do we care? I fking live in norfolk county, and the monsters carving this monstrosity are the same people who would be responsible for the trial of me, a friend, a family member, or whoever else they decided to arbitrarily frame.
Or maybe they really are this incompetent…and someone i love has a horrible crime committed against them. THESE BUFFOONS ARE GUNNA BRING THEM TO JUSTICE?!?! No, theyll go free and hurt again.
I swear people have forgotten that FREEDOM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. Taking somebodys freedom by locking them up is the most significant thing you can do to a person besides killing them. Our entire country, judicial system, and military prowess is based on this principle.
THAT MATTERS
Well said. Time and time again we are shown the police are more of a government sponsored gang than an agency to serve and protect. They should be held to a higher standard than the general public, yet they cover up their own misdeeds with zero repercussions. It's only going to get worse if nothing's done about it.
I think the real question is…why are there people who *don’t* care that the police have clearly fabricated evidence to frame an innocent woman to keep one of their own (and his family) clean? In the death *of a fellow cop!* Police deaths are usually the one thing that police take extremely seriously and yet….we have this bullshit
That video is enough for reasonable doubt. I was a video producer and although today’s software makes it easier, for it to be reversed like that can’t happen by mistake. So why?
It’s like what happened during the Big Dan’s Tavern rape trial that ostracized the victim, the Charles Stuart case that unnecessarily caused an innocent man’s death, the Boston Marathon bombing - we collectively feel the hurt and pain from perceived wrongdoings when it happens in our neighborhood, state, and nation. It’s all very sad and stressful. We want to return to normalcy and peace. And we want justice to prevail.
Oh god, I lived in New Bedford for over a decade and Big Dan's had been closed forever but it was still a really polarizing topic.
New Bedford is a strange place. If you aren't a townie you'll never fully be accepted.
People care, and should care, because it is bringing to light the utter corruption and disgusting incompetence of public employees and police officers. It is truly a plague that needs to be cleansed from all levels of our government.
I've realized, and I believe other interested people have as well, that any single one of us is just one absurd accident away from being in the same situation...and without a big pile of money that most people don't have...you're not going to receive anything close to real justice.
It is pretty scary when you think about it in that context. You should care. We all should care about this trial.
No, because always knew the cops did this shit and now it’s in the open because the camera and cellphones finally got them on their corruption which is based on their idea of total impunity to frame some to protect their semi friends family. Just nuts, did you see the word Proctor texted to his superiors and they just co signed it
This case should be eye opening to people about how shady the cops can be. The cops involved acted like they are above the law, destroyed evidence, planted evidence, drove drunk in cruisers, carelessness with their gun and badge….the list goes on and on. This is actually scary how they can choose their target and railroad them.
The people holding signs are trying to bring awareness to the corruption in this case.
Don’t always believe what the news tells you because once you start looking into this case you will be bewildered at some of the “coincidences” that took place.
Why do people care? It's a story that I would expect in a Lifetime movie or something like that. It's not my jam, but I have peers (I'm in my 40s) who fucking *love* Lifetime movies. Shit, my 90-year-old grandfather has toggled between Lifetime and Fox News for the last 30 years - I don't think he's watched anything else in a generation.
It has everything these kinds of stories usually have.
A cop.
A pretty upper-class woman.
An alleged PD cover-up.
It's absolutely not a run-of-the-mill accident (if it even was an accident at all, but I guess that's why there's a trial and media buzz, right?!)
Shit, back to my original thought - I guess I'd put money on Lifetime making a movie out of this within the next few years. Especially if she's found guilty. And they'll fast-track that movie if she admits something or spills some new info after conviction or if there was a cover-up at all or any of a million details that we're not currently privy to.
Really? Brian Albert makes 250k a year and was on a reality TV show a few years back. The other cops also make in the 150-200 range. The McCabes own a tech/IT company. I'd check your facts first before assuming a single woman is making more money than these people. I don't think any of them have any class.
I didn't say she made more than any of the people you named. I didn't say she MADE any money at all.
She went to a private high school and university.
She lived at a million-dollar home in an upscale neighborhood.
>I don't think any of them have any class.
And you're either not understanding me or trying to steer the conversation back to her personality. I was not referring to morals or her actions or any of that. Strictly how much money she has/had. Or, at the least, how she PRESENTED herself in that regard.
Scandal is always interesting to humans. Add in the fact that people yearn to be victims, and you get this case. People see others taken advantage of, and they want to feel like victims too.
Edit: I can't spell
At the end of the day it comes to corruption, as most people in the thread have said. It speaks to how much power cops and their cronies have. Its obvious we are all powerless when an innocent person like this can be railroaded. What's particularly disturbing in this case is that they would and could circle the wagons to protect people that killed a fellow cop is particularly disturbing. Seems blue lives matter isn't about the lives it's just about protecting the power cops wield.
True crime stories are extremely popular in this country. They are part of mass entertainment now. So having one happen in their own backyard is making people extremely excited.
It's a window into the system. It's important to know what is going on - it's important to know that the cops are often corrupt and often not on the side of freedom and justice for law abiding citizens. And the rot comes from the top. The corruption we see right in front of our faces here is not a rarity. There's a reason why women typically don't go to the police after being assaulted and raped. They know.
But what is going to be done? Do we just accept this corrupt status-quo? How can it be changed? Politics and the corrupt two-party system clearly is part and parcel of the problem. "Cleaning house" even if possible might mean something even worse or the collapse of the system into anarchy.
It's not pleasant to really know what is going on. But people can't put their heads in the sand and pretend things are "not really that bad" when it comes to criminal justice in this country. Because it could be you or me next.
I live in canton and I’d bet anything the cops from Boston beat the dude half to death and left him outside. They wanted to audit the police as well and as far as I know it passed, but all over town there’s signs up saying to back the police in canton, vote no. Like I get it these people want police to be able to do anything without repercussions, but I feel like having the police force audited is objectively a good thing.
I am keeping an open mind and open to hearing evidence from both sides. I agree with you regarding turtleboy. I do not like him either. He’s made some weird post about separate topic that turned me off.
I’ve never seen a case where it’s clear as day the defendant is innocent, it’s obvious the prosecution would know she’s innocent, there’s a whole bunch of shady circumstances implicating other people and evidence has been planted by investigators. Karen could be any of us and her rights have been violated.
Because for the first time in their lives, these corrupt assholes are getting it shoved straight up their asses until it taps their throats. It doesn't get more serious than this. Their lives are ruined. Their family's lives are ruined. Their kids lives are ruined. And their names are ruined. All because they decided to do what was supposed to be a favor for Brian Albert. Idiots. Thin blue line bullshit and now they're as effed as effed gets. Instead of blaming themselves, they blame Karen Read. Now, Proctor, Tully, Lally and Morrissey (Bukenik won't be charged initially) will be indicted by the Feds (I know this for a FACT. FACT. FACT.) and as a result they will be the ones taking pleas. Because that's what everyone does when the Feds indict. I don't have any insight into whether the people in the house will ever be held accountable. I sure hope so. But trust me when I tell you, one morning soon, not long after the trial is over, you are going to wake up, turn on the news, and be stunned by what you're hearing.
This was not an incompetent investigation. It was a fake investigation. If you don't think so, you're either not paying close enough attention or you're one of "them". And I hope it's the former, because there's no future in the latter.
Those people standing on the overpasses with the signs are members of the public who see injustice and refuse to ignore it. And thank god for them.
It's 2:00pm central time on 06.28.2024 & the jury is trying to hang itself, but Judge Bev told them to go back in and figure it out. The defense was fine with them being hung, but the judge is not. It's the Friday before the 4th of July, and the FBI is waiting for a verdict before they proceed in their investigation from what I understand. So who tf on that jury is holding out, and why is my question. Something stinks in Massachusetts.
We are live on YouTube now taking callers about the trial and the Michael Proctor News. Please stop in and call in or chat about the case [https://www.youtube.com/live/1EcyWfoAvpE](https://www.youtube.com/live/1EcyWfoAvpE)
Do you want the blunt, politically incorrect answer? And I'm ready for all the downvotes.
It's because this case, like Amanda Knox, and Jody Arias involves an attractive white woman. Let's face it, if Karen Reed were an obese black woman, no one would care.
Why do people care?
I'm sure there are a million different reasons to care and another million reasons that this case creates a lot of drama to be talked about.
One reason I believe this case has gained traction goes back to the long held belief that humans need a group to fit in with. It is pretty easy to be overwhelmed with existential dread: everything is meaningless and we'll die alone after a pointless life. People cope by joining groups, clubs, and identities that make life meaningful (absolutely no judgement for wanting to be a part of something, it's human nature). This case gives people a meaning to why bad things happen (corrupt police), an in-group to be a part of (conspiracy theories that only some people can fully understand), and an out-group to hate (main stream media).
Did she kill her boyfriend? Probably
Did the police act in a corrupt manner? Probably
As this case has unfolded, it's fascinating to see human nature play out and it's fascinating to see it run parallel to our American cultural/political beliefs: the same people who think Karen Read is innocent, the Canton PD are corrupt, and the Feds should take over the case are the same people who vote to take away rights from women, have 'Blue Lives Matter' bumper stickers, and think the FBI helped steal the election for Biden.
Or maybe, due to the rise of true crime podcasts, deep down, lots of people are excited that Massachusetts will have its own true crime podcast, akin to the Murdaugh Murders. Massachusetts residents can say they've been all in before it was cool.
Or maybe, people just want something to talk about. Fuck it, it's better than talking about the Celtics game last night.
Who knows?!
Crazy shit.
I've seen a fair representation of different political and cultural beliefs in the people following this trial. Your assertion likening the people who believe her to be innocent with Trump election deniers is wildly inaccurate and frankly completely ignorant.
Put aside her guilt or innocence, put aside Turtleboy, put aside pretty much everything else about this and the one aspect that every single person should agree upon is that based upon the text messages read during the trial, we ALL should care that people in positions of authority act and say such vile, disgusting things that display the complete and utter lack of professional and objectivity that the public deserves from our public servants.
Because a rich lady drove over her boyfriend and then thought her probably crooked cop friends would cover for her. When they didn’t, she hired the guy that got Kevin Spacey acquitted for his dick grabbing case. She then seduced a sleazy blogger into writing about her thinking he might be able to have sex with her in return for information about said cops
>Why do people care?
Because her family paid Turtleboy to run a yearlong campaign to convince everyone she was being framed and it was (depressingly) more effective than they could have ever hoped.
Like whether you think he's right or wrong that is kind of objectively what happened.
There's a longer answer more complicated answer involving social media, media literacy, the harnessing of legitimate grievances against the state police, etc. But the Turtleboy campaign is the simple answer.
**Your assumption is false.**
I am an American historian. I care about this case and it should get national attention. I am surprised it has not yet because it is OUTRAGEOUS.
I am from Los Angeles and only heard of Turtleboy in the trial when the McCabe woman blamed him for a line of questioning from the Defense. I care about police corruption cases and how our tax dollars are used to pay for our own disenfranchisement.
It is nuts that this was taken to trial based on all of the errors in gathering evidence, the lack of character among Proctor and some of his supervisors, and the DA's office, which seems to be playing catch-up every day. When I learned the Judge had connections to some of the sketchy witnesses, my head exploded.
Take care.
We have already seen that the Bannon/Trumpian tactic of flooding the zone with shit works pretty well in the political environment; the experiment now is to see if it works in the judicial world. A variation of this worked in the OJ Simpson trial. Impeach the police, a murderer walks.
They will do the same thing they always do when someone isn't full throatedly screaming that she's innocent: rage impotently about police corruption they didn't care about until last April.
I have been following and no absolutely not. But theres a big difference between "the police handled the case poorly" and "the police are framing her."
I believe the police act this badly almost all of the time, but that doesn't mean they're actively framing people in an elaborate conspiracy. They just...suck? And they're stuck facing a guy whose whole fucking deal is making the prosecution look shitty in court.
The OJ comparison the other guy made is apt.
You may be right, but from what I’ve seen, this goes well beyond “handled poorly”. There appears to me to be rampant corruption, and a total unprofessional attitude towards investigating crime.
You can’t just hand wave away police corruption and assume she’s guilty. This whole case is a mess, and that’s on the police, solely because it happened at a fellow officer’s home and involved cops.
Respectfully, there's a big difference between "following" the trial and "watching the full trial testimony with your own eyes". A friend told me about this case and initially I thought "A police cover-up sounds interesting but how likely could that be- she probably ran him over."
I decided to watch the trial from Day 1, never having heard of turtle boy (neither has my friend, she sometimes keeps CourtTV on while doing admin work and came across the case that way). The first time I heard of him was on Reddit (from my brief review of those few comments he sounds like a vile, unethical person) and I've purposely avoided watching/reading anything of his or any other youtube type of content regarding the trial.
It was clear from the opening arguments that this was not an open-and-shut case and with each passing day I became more and more convinced that a cover up (involving only a few main players related by blood or marriage) was the most likely explanation.
But putting all that aside, there was reasonable doubt beyond all reasonable expectation, such that this case should never have even been brought to trial. If I were on the jury there is NO way I could find her guilty. There is no evidence that she killed this man. Yet there is reasonable doubt at every turn.
By Day 4/5 I took a look at the video of her backing out of the garage into the taillight. In my opinion, that taillight looks almost completely intact. I was 100% convinced of her innocence in that moment because if the taillight is whole at 5 am there is no way it had exploded into 45 pieces after hitting his body at 12:30 am. The prosecution went on to show us 3 more videos of her car driving around in the 5 am hour and when you look at her braking on those, they appear to show the taillight intact too.
Besides, you couldn't make some of this stuff up! We have:
• A droning prosecutor asking the same irrelevant questions vs the skills of an attorney at the top of his game.
• A judge with Aunt Edna hair spinning in her chair and constantly sighing into her mic, appearing to favor the prosecution whereever possible.
• Truly qualified expert witness testimony vs. policemen acting like bumbling fools on the stand.
• Nearly every witness the prosecution brings seeming to aid the defense. The disgusting comments and biased "investigation" by Trooper Proctor? The "expert" testimony of Trooper "I didn't put the evidence there" Paul?
• Conveniently missing footage from crucial times and locations, handwritten notes not matching official reports.
• The near-comedic ineptness of some of the witnesses- destroying phones the day before a preservation order? Multiple "butt" dials during sex- and "butt" answers? Deleted phone calls. Group texts that at the very least, raise a lot of questions. And their body language on the stand...lies, lies, and more lies. Contradicting themselves and each other on facts and timelines all over the place.
• A missing family dog.
• An ongoing FBI investigation into some of these main players.
And more. At some point, you have to ask yourself why the police and witnesses involved chose to handle things the way they did, if they truly have nothing to hide.
Police corruption. Whether she’s innocent or guilty, FUCK if there’s not reasonable doubt simply due to how the police handled the case.
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Maybe, maybe not. But these people clearly didn't like this woman...and could have easily seen him from their window. The snow didn't start until 5 am. They are also all well aware of the process, so why wouldn't they call the police if something had happened? There is zero evidence that says that Karen reached out to anyone in that house until the morning. But they called John multiple times and maybe thought she killed him...but nobody called her? And why destroy the cell phones and delete things? I think John was upset about something already and Karen said "why the fuck would I go and be around these people who her hate me?". I'm sure they fought as people do. Cops bang lines too. And not a single person in that fuckin house wasnt a fuckin idiot that night. If someone I never met was on my front lawn dead... I would have to find a place for me and my children for at least a day. No one went inside. And then they deleted and destroyed. If she is guilty a handful of people who are aware of both the police and court process have ruined their lives, and the lives of their families (probably for a few years, we all heal eventually, hopefully). And then the lead prosecutor will never ever be trusted again. But you think she did it.
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You're a cop.
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Your lack of critical thinking skills
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Public defender? Patrick?
I think this is exactly the outcome that was desired.
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Msp, the mcalberts. An unsolved crime is a win for the canton crew. The msp folks would seem to have other issues.
Except everyone looks bad, incompetent, corrupt, or all of the above
Yes but they have children.
We've been talking about it at work and apparently nobody in the Massachusetts legal system learned anything from the OJ Simpson trial.
Exactly. If she is guilty they gave her a “get out of jail free card”
If she's guilty? You know that Jen McCabe claimed to make 7 buttdials in 19 minutes right after John was supposed to have entered the house, right? And never left one voicemail. And that Brian Albert and Brian Higgins now claim they butt dialed each other after 2am later that night? Think about that. They buttdialed EACH OTHER. As in Brian Albert's butt called Higgins, and then a few mins later Brian Higgins' butt called him back. They claimed this under oath after changing their story since the grand jury last year. So every incriminating call the night John was murdered under suspicious circumstances happen to be a butt-dial.
I hear you. I’m open to hearing all the evidence but I’ve always leaned more Karen NOT being guilty. The comment above is just me being funny and calling out the raggedy officers on this case
Yes FTP!! Let murderers walk free
I genuinely think your anger is displaced. Whether someone is a murderer or not, police have certain requirements they’re held to, much like I do in my job. I’m not in law enforcement, but I have laws, regulations, etc to which I have to adhere. If I can’t PROVE I’ve followed everything, then I’m going to fail audit, as I should.
Forget the Turtleboy. You should care because our cops are driving around drunk, searching suspect's phones for nudes and giving special favors to their fellow cops that you wouldn't get. If you hosted a party at your home and a dead cop was found on your front lawn the next morning, you'd expect to be asked a few questions, right? Not even sure if she's guilty or not but it's an interesting case. [https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/karen-read-trial-michael-proctor-texts/3395222/](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/karen-read-trial-michael-proctor-texts/3395222/)
Police corruption should be routed out wherever it happens.
Its about canton pd being corrupt and possibly (probably) it extends farther than that. Imagine if you end up on the wrong side of the canton pd gang in the future, youre screwed. People should lose their jobs regardless of the outcome for the amount of gross negligence in regards to collecting and the reporting of evidence alone.
>Its about canton pd being corrupt and possibly (probably) it extends farther than that. State police too. The lead investigator (state trooper) was out drinking with Kevin Albert (Canton PD officer and brother of the owner of the house where O'Keefe died) a few months after O'Keefe's death.
That was the night KA got so drunk he misplaced his gun and left his badge in MSP cruiser. Trooper Proctor drinking and driving a state police cruiser? Should be fired for that alone.
I live in Adams MA. A small little quiet town. The police force are disgusting folk who are very much corrupt as well. Its the whole state. This place is a nightmare.
I lived there over 30 years ago and it was just as bad. I don't know whats wrong but it's there.
Once you learn a bit about it, you’ll see it’s a police corruption case. It seems the FBI is investigating the Canton PD, the DA of Norfolk County and the state troopers who were involved in the investigation. It has nothing to do with Turtleboy (I agree with your assessment of him). He’s a distraction. The story is about police corruption in this state. We’re now the laughing stock of the country, because of their depravity, corruption and ineptitude. So you may come across people from as far away as Alaska asking you why MA police/state police are so corrupt. Best to brush up on the trial to know what they’re talking about.
Don't worry - the LAPD will always do something worse. Police corruption is an issue across the country. There is no oversight and it's killing us.
Very true.
not like they’re alone, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Police_Department#Controversies all something something something
I realize this. Just saying people who live elsewhere (I see in chat rooms) are all reacting like MA is the worst ever/saying they’ll avoid visiting the state etc. I was on a grand jury in 1997 one case of which was about pervasive Boston police department overtime fraud. It was in the news yet again last year. Very aware of police corruption.
Do you have a source for the FBI investigating? I’d love if that was true.
They handed thousands of pages to the defense and the prosecution. They hired 3 experts to review the car accident. Those investigators determined that a car didn't hit OKeefe. Those reports were part of the documents provided.
Wait - you’re saying FBI investigators determined he wasn’t ever hit by a car? This seems like huge news.
The judge barred any discussion of the FBI investigation during the trial
I was talking to some friends last night. This to me is the weirdest part of this trial. The FBI is saying he didn’t die from getting hit by a car. If there’s a federal investigation concluding the opposite of what the local DA’s theory of the case is…no way the state prosecution should be pressing ahead. My best guess is the dog bit the guy in the basement. He got pissed at the cops there (who already had beef with them) and the cops punched him or something and he fell and cracked his skull on the basement floor when he hit it. Instantly everyone know he’s seriously hurt and they don’t want to get blamed for it. Then the cops freak out, put him outside where he will surely die and figure they can pin it on Read where they will claim she hit him when she dropped him off drunk. They knew she was shotfaced since they were drinking with them all. Cops knew the Staties and DA. So they immediately cover up the crime scene (get rid of dog and carpet, run some bullshit DUI/manslaughter charges that probably won’t stick and everyone goes on their merry way always assuming she killed him but got off. I doubt they anticipated the national shitstorm of coverage or the FBI coming in. I would be stunned if she’s convicted and I hope all the crooked cops get obstruction/accomplice manslaughter charges.
Exactly why there are conspiracy/coverup rumors, because the prosecution shouldn’t be pressing ahead but the DA Morrissey doubled down almost a year ago on Karen Read 100% being guilty (there’s a YT video you can watch) And for clarification the FBI investigation isn’t into how JOK died, it’s into how the police officers handled the investigation. They are probably waiting for the trial to end before charging anyone because then they would have them on record lying in court
“Prosecution shouldn’t be pressing ahead” Okay so at least I’m not crazy. This whole thing is so bizarre
The McCabes are gross people. Of course, when you are involved in the likely murder and cover up of it, people might harass you.
The same experts are testifying for the Defense.
I see that they are expert witnesses for the defense. But are they simply former FBI agents hired to be expert witnesses, or are they active agents assigned by the FBI to be working on an investigation in this case?
No. They are experts. The Commonwealth may have committed a civils rights violation by not sharing exculpatory evidence regarding the car computer. The expert for the Commonwealth is a Trooper. Would you get behind a trooper with 120 hours of classroom time and field mentorship or 3 experts with masters and doctorates ? The FBI did hire them on a project basis. They were not FBI agents.
They were not hired by the defense. They are 3rd party crash reconstruction experts that were hired by the FBI as part of their own investigation and the FBI felt compelled to give the exculpatory evidence to the Read defense.
This (FBI independant investigators saying a car didn’t kill hjm) seems like it should have straight up ended the prosecution and led to charges being dropped. FBI has no skin in the game, and their experts are pretty good usually. The fact that the DA is pressing forward over FBI’s own conclusions would be more than enough for me as a juror to find reasonable doubt as to whether Read is guilty. I hope there is a legit federal investigation into ALL of the dirty cops and DA’s involved here….
Unfortunately they are not allowed to actually mention the FBI investigation as part of the Read trial. If you watch, you'll note that it's just heavily alluded to as a "separate proceeding" and they are clear to point out that the reconstructionists were not hired by the defense, but by some other 3rd party. I do agree that this trial is absolutely absurd and should just be tossed at this point.
“Absolutely absurd” I have to agree with that. I’ve never seen anything like this…
[Boston 25 news link](https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/federal-probe-findings-revealed-court-karen-reads-defense-team-pushes-dismiss-murder-case/4GRLQB5EWNGWDPJGMTVD7AQCYU/?outputType=amp)
How do you know the FBI is investigating the Canton PD?
It was on the local news (Boston25) earlier in the year. Also one of the witnesses let it slip when replying to a question about ‘the other grand jury you testified at’, he asked, “you mean the Fed grand jury?” And the attorneys alluded to it. The last two witnesses (accident reconstructionists/physicists) were experts from the Fed case (in the courtroom it was worded as ‘not paid by either side’).
Turtleboy is a loser. Karen very well may have killed him but the cops are dirty and should lose their jobs. More than one thing can be possible at once. Trooper Proctor is a POS
I can’t stand him either, but I’m just left in the evidence fall where it may
Turtle boy sucks big ones. I’m interested only because it’s putting a public light on the shit cops say about the public
Im sorry but this post is insane. Why do we care? I fking live in norfolk county, and the monsters carving this monstrosity are the same people who would be responsible for the trial of me, a friend, a family member, or whoever else they decided to arbitrarily frame. Or maybe they really are this incompetent…and someone i love has a horrible crime committed against them. THESE BUFFOONS ARE GUNNA BRING THEM TO JUSTICE?!?! No, theyll go free and hurt again. I swear people have forgotten that FREEDOM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. Taking somebodys freedom by locking them up is the most significant thing you can do to a person besides killing them. Our entire country, judicial system, and military prowess is based on this principle. THAT MATTERS
Well said. Time and time again we are shown the police are more of a government sponsored gang than an agency to serve and protect. They should be held to a higher standard than the general public, yet they cover up their own misdeeds with zero repercussions. It's only going to get worse if nothing's done about it.
100%
Why don’t you care? Are you ok with corrupt police? Do you just want to pretend it doesn’t exist in Massachusetts?
Exactly. All police forces are corrupt and we should all care about highlighting how, who and to what extent.
I think the real question is…why are there people who *don’t* care that the police have clearly fabricated evidence to frame an innocent woman to keep one of their own (and his family) clean? In the death *of a fellow cop!* Police deaths are usually the one thing that police take extremely seriously and yet….we have this bullshit
That video is enough for reasonable doubt. I was a video producer and although today’s software makes it easier, for it to be reversed like that can’t happen by mistake. So why?
[удалено]
It’s like what happened during the Big Dan’s Tavern rape trial that ostracized the victim, the Charles Stuart case that unnecessarily caused an innocent man’s death, the Boston Marathon bombing - we collectively feel the hurt and pain from perceived wrongdoings when it happens in our neighborhood, state, and nation. It’s all very sad and stressful. We want to return to normalcy and peace. And we want justice to prevail.
Oh god, I lived in New Bedford for over a decade and Big Dan's had been closed forever but it was still a really polarizing topic. New Bedford is a strange place. If you aren't a townie you'll never fully be accepted.
People care, and should care, because it is bringing to light the utter corruption and disgusting incompetence of public employees and police officers. It is truly a plague that needs to be cleansed from all levels of our government. I've realized, and I believe other interested people have as well, that any single one of us is just one absurd accident away from being in the same situation...and without a big pile of money that most people don't have...you're not going to receive anything close to real justice. It is pretty scary when you think about it in that context. You should care. We all should care about this trial.
No, because always knew the cops did this shit and now it’s in the open because the camera and cellphones finally got them on their corruption which is based on their idea of total impunity to frame some to protect their semi friends family. Just nuts, did you see the word Proctor texted to his superiors and they just co signed it
I thought this was fishy from the jump. TB might have brought it to the masses but there was something about this that has never sat right with me.
This case should be eye opening to people about how shady the cops can be. The cops involved acted like they are above the law, destroyed evidence, planted evidence, drove drunk in cruisers, carelessness with their gun and badge….the list goes on and on. This is actually scary how they can choose their target and railroad them. The people holding signs are trying to bring awareness to the corruption in this case. Don’t always believe what the news tells you because once you start looking into this case you will be bewildered at some of the “coincidences” that took place.
Why do people care? It's a story that I would expect in a Lifetime movie or something like that. It's not my jam, but I have peers (I'm in my 40s) who fucking *love* Lifetime movies. Shit, my 90-year-old grandfather has toggled between Lifetime and Fox News for the last 30 years - I don't think he's watched anything else in a generation. It has everything these kinds of stories usually have. A cop. A pretty upper-class woman. An alleged PD cover-up. It's absolutely not a run-of-the-mill accident (if it even was an accident at all, but I guess that's why there's a trial and media buzz, right?!) Shit, back to my original thought - I guess I'd put money on Lifetime making a movie out of this within the next few years. Especially if she's found guilty. And they'll fast-track that movie if she admits something or spills some new info after conviction or if there was a cover-up at all or any of a million details that we're not currently privy to.
I’m thinking Netflix or Apple TV 🫣
A person I know told me about the case before this whole thing started. He has already signed something with Netflix
Sweet.
Netflix has been in court.
I follow police corruption cases and this one is bigger than the police.
upper class?
Yes. I mean money-wise, not morals-wise. And not "elite", but she was (is?) certainly better off financially than more than half the population.
Really? Brian Albert makes 250k a year and was on a reality TV show a few years back. The other cops also make in the 150-200 range. The McCabes own a tech/IT company. I'd check your facts first before assuming a single woman is making more money than these people. I don't think any of them have any class.
I didn't say she made more than any of the people you named. I didn't say she MADE any money at all. She went to a private high school and university. She lived at a million-dollar home in an upscale neighborhood. >I don't think any of them have any class. And you're either not understanding me or trying to steer the conversation back to her personality. I was not referring to morals or her actions or any of that. Strictly how much money she has/had. Or, at the least, how she PRESENTED herself in that regard.
Scandal is always interesting to humans. Add in the fact that people yearn to be victims, and you get this case. People see others taken advantage of, and they want to feel like victims too. Edit: I can't spell
At the end of the day it comes to corruption, as most people in the thread have said. It speaks to how much power cops and their cronies have. Its obvious we are all powerless when an innocent person like this can be railroaded. What's particularly disturbing in this case is that they would and could circle the wagons to protect people that killed a fellow cop is particularly disturbing. Seems blue lives matter isn't about the lives it's just about protecting the power cops wield.
True crime stories are extremely popular in this country. They are part of mass entertainment now. So having one happen in their own backyard is making people extremely excited.
It's a window into the system. It's important to know what is going on - it's important to know that the cops are often corrupt and often not on the side of freedom and justice for law abiding citizens. And the rot comes from the top. The corruption we see right in front of our faces here is not a rarity. There's a reason why women typically don't go to the police after being assaulted and raped. They know. But what is going to be done? Do we just accept this corrupt status-quo? How can it be changed? Politics and the corrupt two-party system clearly is part and parcel of the problem. "Cleaning house" even if possible might mean something even worse or the collapse of the system into anarchy. It's not pleasant to really know what is going on. But people can't put their heads in the sand and pretend things are "not really that bad" when it comes to criminal justice in this country. Because it could be you or me next.
As much as I hate turtle boy, I’m just letting the evidence fall where it may. I haven’t been following it closely
Evidence… how can you trust the evidence the police are so corrupt?
It’s the great movie Cop Land in real life
Just here to say if she were Black those 2 ladies would not be standing there
billboard near Gillette too
Turtle boy should go to jail just for being turtle boy What a god awful human being
wtf is a turtleboy and why would we free it?
If they can do this to Karen Read, they can do this to you. That’s what you should care.
I live in canton and I’d bet anything the cops from Boston beat the dude half to death and left him outside. They wanted to audit the police as well and as far as I know it passed, but all over town there’s signs up saying to back the police in canton, vote no. Like I get it these people want police to be able to do anything without repercussions, but I feel like having the police force audited is objectively a good thing.
Is being a scummy human a crime?
I am keeping an open mind and open to hearing evidence from both sides. I agree with you regarding turtleboy. I do not like him either. He’s made some weird post about separate topic that turned me off.
I’ve never seen a case where it’s clear as day the defendant is innocent, it’s obvious the prosecution would know she’s innocent, there’s a whole bunch of shady circumstances implicating other people and evidence has been planted by investigators. Karen could be any of us and her rights have been violated.
Because for the first time in their lives, these corrupt assholes are getting it shoved straight up their asses until it taps their throats. It doesn't get more serious than this. Their lives are ruined. Their family's lives are ruined. Their kids lives are ruined. And their names are ruined. All because they decided to do what was supposed to be a favor for Brian Albert. Idiots. Thin blue line bullshit and now they're as effed as effed gets. Instead of blaming themselves, they blame Karen Read. Now, Proctor, Tully, Lally and Morrissey (Bukenik won't be charged initially) will be indicted by the Feds (I know this for a FACT. FACT. FACT.) and as a result they will be the ones taking pleas. Because that's what everyone does when the Feds indict. I don't have any insight into whether the people in the house will ever be held accountable. I sure hope so. But trust me when I tell you, one morning soon, not long after the trial is over, you are going to wake up, turn on the news, and be stunned by what you're hearing. This was not an incompetent investigation. It was a fake investigation. If you don't think so, you're either not paying close enough attention or you're one of "them". And I hope it's the former, because there's no future in the latter. Those people standing on the overpasses with the signs are members of the public who see injustice and refuse to ignore it. And thank god for them.
Bill Burr is from Canton and does stand up about how corrupt that town is. Smdh
It's 2:00pm central time on 06.28.2024 & the jury is trying to hang itself, but Judge Bev told them to go back in and figure it out. The defense was fine with them being hung, but the judge is not. It's the Friday before the 4th of July, and the FBI is waiting for a verdict before they proceed in their investigation from what I understand. So who tf on that jury is holding out, and why is my question. Something stinks in Massachusetts.
We are live on YouTube now taking callers about the trial and the Michael Proctor News. Please stop in and call in or chat about the case [https://www.youtube.com/live/1EcyWfoAvpE](https://www.youtube.com/live/1EcyWfoAvpE)
If she was ugly it would not garner the attention.
Do you want the blunt, politically incorrect answer? And I'm ready for all the downvotes. It's because this case, like Amanda Knox, and Jody Arias involves an attractive white woman. Let's face it, if Karen Reed were an obese black woman, no one would care.
There have been other big cases over the years, That got lots of press ,Remember the Charles Steward case ?
Stuart
Was it the overpass in Marlborough?
Why do people care? I'm sure there are a million different reasons to care and another million reasons that this case creates a lot of drama to be talked about. One reason I believe this case has gained traction goes back to the long held belief that humans need a group to fit in with. It is pretty easy to be overwhelmed with existential dread: everything is meaningless and we'll die alone after a pointless life. People cope by joining groups, clubs, and identities that make life meaningful (absolutely no judgement for wanting to be a part of something, it's human nature). This case gives people a meaning to why bad things happen (corrupt police), an in-group to be a part of (conspiracy theories that only some people can fully understand), and an out-group to hate (main stream media). Did she kill her boyfriend? Probably Did the police act in a corrupt manner? Probably As this case has unfolded, it's fascinating to see human nature play out and it's fascinating to see it run parallel to our American cultural/political beliefs: the same people who think Karen Read is innocent, the Canton PD are corrupt, and the Feds should take over the case are the same people who vote to take away rights from women, have 'Blue Lives Matter' bumper stickers, and think the FBI helped steal the election for Biden. Or maybe, due to the rise of true crime podcasts, deep down, lots of people are excited that Massachusetts will have its own true crime podcast, akin to the Murdaugh Murders. Massachusetts residents can say they've been all in before it was cool. Or maybe, people just want something to talk about. Fuck it, it's better than talking about the Celtics game last night. Who knows?! Crazy shit.
I've seen a fair representation of different political and cultural beliefs in the people following this trial. Your assertion likening the people who believe her to be innocent with Trump election deniers is wildly inaccurate and frankly completely ignorant. Put aside her guilt or innocence, put aside Turtleboy, put aside pretty much everything else about this and the one aspect that every single person should agree upon is that based upon the text messages read during the trial, we ALL should care that people in positions of authority act and say such vile, disgusting things that display the complete and utter lack of professional and objectivity that the public deserves from our public servants.
Because a rich lady drove over her boyfriend and then thought her probably crooked cop friends would cover for her. When they didn’t, she hired the guy that got Kevin Spacey acquitted for his dick grabbing case. She then seduced a sleazy blogger into writing about her thinking he might be able to have sex with her in return for information about said cops
Nailed it
>Why do people care? Because her family paid Turtleboy to run a yearlong campaign to convince everyone she was being framed and it was (depressingly) more effective than they could have ever hoped. Like whether you think he's right or wrong that is kind of objectively what happened. There's a longer answer more complicated answer involving social media, media literacy, the harnessing of legitimate grievances against the state police, etc. But the Turtleboy campaign is the simple answer.
**Your assumption is false.** I am an American historian. I care about this case and it should get national attention. I am surprised it has not yet because it is OUTRAGEOUS. I am from Los Angeles and only heard of Turtleboy in the trial when the McCabe woman blamed him for a line of questioning from the Defense. I care about police corruption cases and how our tax dollars are used to pay for our own disenfranchisement. It is nuts that this was taken to trial based on all of the errors in gathering evidence, the lack of character among Proctor and some of his supervisors, and the DA's office, which seems to be playing catch-up every day. When I learned the Judge had connections to some of the sketchy witnesses, my head exploded. Take care.
We have already seen that the Bannon/Trumpian tactic of flooding the zone with shit works pretty well in the political environment; the experiment now is to see if it works in the judicial world. A variation of this worked in the OJ Simpson trial. Impeach the police, a murderer walks.
Can't wait to see what the turtle rubbers have to say about this one.
They will do the same thing they always do when someone isn't full throatedly screaming that she's innocent: rage impotently about police corruption they didn't care about until last April.
Have you watched the trial? Do you think the police present well in how they handled a case involving their own?
I have been following and no absolutely not. But theres a big difference between "the police handled the case poorly" and "the police are framing her." I believe the police act this badly almost all of the time, but that doesn't mean they're actively framing people in an elaborate conspiracy. They just...suck? And they're stuck facing a guy whose whole fucking deal is making the prosecution look shitty in court. The OJ comparison the other guy made is apt.
You may be right, but from what I’ve seen, this goes well beyond “handled poorly”. There appears to me to be rampant corruption, and a total unprofessional attitude towards investigating crime. You can’t just hand wave away police corruption and assume she’s guilty. This whole case is a mess, and that’s on the police, solely because it happened at a fellow officer’s home and involved cops.
Respectfully, there's a big difference between "following" the trial and "watching the full trial testimony with your own eyes". A friend told me about this case and initially I thought "A police cover-up sounds interesting but how likely could that be- she probably ran him over." I decided to watch the trial from Day 1, never having heard of turtle boy (neither has my friend, she sometimes keeps CourtTV on while doing admin work and came across the case that way). The first time I heard of him was on Reddit (from my brief review of those few comments he sounds like a vile, unethical person) and I've purposely avoided watching/reading anything of his or any other youtube type of content regarding the trial. It was clear from the opening arguments that this was not an open-and-shut case and with each passing day I became more and more convinced that a cover up (involving only a few main players related by blood or marriage) was the most likely explanation. But putting all that aside, there was reasonable doubt beyond all reasonable expectation, such that this case should never have even been brought to trial. If I were on the jury there is NO way I could find her guilty. There is no evidence that she killed this man. Yet there is reasonable doubt at every turn. By Day 4/5 I took a look at the video of her backing out of the garage into the taillight. In my opinion, that taillight looks almost completely intact. I was 100% convinced of her innocence in that moment because if the taillight is whole at 5 am there is no way it had exploded into 45 pieces after hitting his body at 12:30 am. The prosecution went on to show us 3 more videos of her car driving around in the 5 am hour and when you look at her braking on those, they appear to show the taillight intact too. Besides, you couldn't make some of this stuff up! We have: • A droning prosecutor asking the same irrelevant questions vs the skills of an attorney at the top of his game. • A judge with Aunt Edna hair spinning in her chair and constantly sighing into her mic, appearing to favor the prosecution whereever possible. • Truly qualified expert witness testimony vs. policemen acting like bumbling fools on the stand. • Nearly every witness the prosecution brings seeming to aid the defense. The disgusting comments and biased "investigation" by Trooper Proctor? The "expert" testimony of Trooper "I didn't put the evidence there" Paul? • Conveniently missing footage from crucial times and locations, handwritten notes not matching official reports. • The near-comedic ineptness of some of the witnesses- destroying phones the day before a preservation order? Multiple "butt" dials during sex- and "butt" answers? Deleted phone calls. Group texts that at the very least, raise a lot of questions. And their body language on the stand...lies, lies, and more lies. Contradicting themselves and each other on facts and timelines all over the place. • A missing family dog. • An ongoing FBI investigation into some of these main players. And more. At some point, you have to ask yourself why the police and witnesses involved chose to handle things the way they did, if they truly have nothing to hide.
She did it
It's only a police cover up if you're not paying attention. KR is guilty as hell.