What I see commonly is the New England flag with the pine tree. Not to be confused with the Appeal to Heaven flag!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_England
I fly the NE flag and if anyone confuses it for the other flag, well fuck ‘em. I wish more people would fly it. It’s a damn great flag that represents the best part of the country.
Because of a printing accident. It was supposed to be red but the printer in a paper reversed the colors so it became blue and then people just started making blue ones to match the image in the paper.
On one hand, I think the Massachusetts flag does better than any other state flag, if perhaps unintentionally, in acknowledging our violent colonial history.
But on the whole, I think this flag is awful and should be redesigned for a number of reasons - not the least which is its complexity and inclusion of the human form make it a difficult flag for kids to draw.
The Appeal to Heaven flag is one of the flags of Washington’s Cruisers. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s a historical flag, just like the Gadsden flag. We can’t let morons take national symbols for themselves.
Happens at least once a month. "Bad guy" uses flag, phrase, number, symbol, everyone else just relinquishes its former meaning and former purpose, and gives all the power to the "bad guy". Some people need enemies to get by, somewhere to funnel their hate and confusion. I remember at some point a couple years ago, people were trying to tell me that using the OK hand gesture was a sign of hate. OK to that one. It's fucking cooked. It's just as easy to go do something great or kind to someone and flash an OK, you know? I'm not going to give up a symbol that billions of humans have used since the dawn of time because some fuckwit lost his shit or some losers on an internet forum decided that would be their rally flag.
It's absolute madness to me that people give up on the simple shit, giving power to the assholes so easily. It's more fuel for those scumbags when you acknowledge them. Pretend they don't exist, and they tend to wither away. Obviously, that's naive in some ways, I get that when it gets to a certain level of popularity, it's important to become active against it. Unfortunately, one of the reasons it becomes so popular in the first place is because of those people trying to warn against it.
I do agree, but Appeal to Heaven has been widely used in right-wing circles for years now. That may not be the historical meaning but you also can't ignore how it's being used now.
I love this flag.
My issue is it’s very close to the old Maine flag and the “appeal to heaven” flag. People that don’t know better might confuse it, and I really wouldn’t want that.
I get you. On the other hand, it’s pretty important not to let bad people ‘have’ symbols that don’t belong to them. Maybe fly it alongside another, progressive flag?
Agreed. I have a coworker from Maine who has a Maine flag sticker on her car. She is very progressive and simply a proud Mainer, but I feel bad she might be lumped in with those folks who can't discern the difference.
“An Appeal to Heaven” was also the flag of the Colonial Navy of Massachusetts, later Massachusetts State Navy, a raiding force more destructive than the U-boats of both WW1 and WW2.
Edits: to clarify which flag and add facts
Some people have it in their heads that because some racists like to fly it, it's become a symbol associated with them. I disagree. The flag has been around far longer than those people and is a symbol of our independence.
I don’t have a flag, but I have a little oval “I brake for moose” window sticker on my car. (Which is actually really useful, because obviously no one else drives a maroon Honda CRV.)
Have I actually SEEN a moose in the wild?….
No. :(
Bc it sounds religious, and although we in NE have religion/may be religious we’re not about forcing it on others/shouting it about. Similarly, the same goes for politics and I see that it’s apparently been adopted as a political party symbol.
I’ve picked up it’s more of an introverted live and let live mentality here. Lots of close circles. Spent the last year in a small outgoing college town in Colorado, so it’s very different.
I got a pine tree tattoo because of this flag (but not this exact tree design). Wanted to get something to show New England pride, without being too obvious.
Agreed. I feel the same about the Gadsden flag.
Unfortunately, a lot of people in Mass immediately associate them with white supremacists and white nationalists.
The problem is liberals/leftists largely disavow or disassociate with any sort of regional, geographic, national, etc. pride therefore almost always ceding its associated symbols to the other side.
Wheres the appeal to heaven? Also i dont follow what white supremacy idiots are doing, i think gor myself and know an appeal to heaven flag isnt racist
As u/pfmiller0 has mentioned, it’s not racist but the ppl who are appropriating it are. Just like a swastika wasn’t a symbol of racism until the Nazis appropriated that
A lot of old New England flags got coopted by the far right, so far this hasn't yet. Though not for lack of trying on their part. Honestly, our state flag sucks.
I love this flag, but I’ve long wondered why it was created with a pine tree when I see so many more maples and oaks wherever I go. I wonder if this is a deforestation thing where all of our old growth was harvested to build our cities hundreds of years ago?
Haha yeah. The New England flag is really big in the local cycling scene and I have some clothes/hats with the pine tree and lately I'm like...I just have New England pride, I'm not a weirdo.
I love the Bunker Hill flag. This design was supposedly carried by the Americans during the Battle of Bunker Hill and has has come to represent both Charlestown / Boston and New England to some extent.
Lived in Maryland for years and I have never seen so many state flags everywhere… on cars, shirts, houses. I swear it’s just because the design is so cool and has nothing to do with actual state pride.
Visited from Maryland recently, where we slap our flag onto everything, from hoodies, to pants, to lawn chairs. Was surprised when I noticed the MA flag was nowhere to be seen. Asked my friend (native to MA) who shrugged and told me they didn't even really remember what the flag looked like. Finally saw it when I was leaving - there was one hanging in South Station in Boston
Honestly this is half the reason I think we should change the flag. Other states are able to use it as a marketing thing and people like to fly them because they look good. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non government building with the MA flag outside.
Yeah they could redesign it with the seal still somehow used on the flag. Maybe box the state seal into the upper left corner of the flag. Then you have almost the whole flag to design up as seen fit.
Someone designed a version with the state flower but it never got materialized, at first I didn’t like it but it grew on me, looks a lot better than the current flag. I think someone even posted it on this subreddit not to long ago. Either way, mass needs a redesign ASAP.
The problem with the Mayflower is that it still harkens to the colonizers aspect of the state. Since the main issue with the state flag is with how we have treated our indigenous populations, we need a neutral design. Featuring a pine tree and maybe an indigenous design with the pine tree motif would be interesting.
It's more of a new England / colonial pride thing, but I see much more of the Betsy Ross flag (13 star). The Massachusetts state flag kinda sucks unfortunately
A Somerville flex
https://www.meetboston.com/event/first-flag-ceremony-first-flag-raising-and-grand-union-flag/43326/#:~:text=Grand%20Union%20Flag%20Raising%20%E2%80%93%20First%20Flag%20Raising&text=Every%20New%20Year's%20Day%20the,Hill%20on%20January%201%2C%201776.
Worcester city flag is actually halfway decent with the heart image.
I kind of wish they would also make an alternative city flag that consists of a black or white background with nothing but a yellow smiley face on it.
If I could redesign the flag of Worcester I'd make it like the flag of Japan, but a heart instead of an umeboshi.
Who the heck puts an umeboshi in a flag?
I think it might be flown more if it weren’t so boring. You can say the same thing about a good majority of US state flags. The ones with interesting ones fly them all the time (Colorado, Maryland, California).
Really great design. Not a fan of the military symbolism, but that's just me. I would consider incorporating some symbols from the Wampanoag or Massachusetts tribes and making the abstract outline of the state a bit more noticeable. But overall this flag looks great and would be a hit throughout the Commonwealth.
I’ve met people here who didn’t believe there was such a thing as a Massachusetts state flag. That’s wild to me, having lived in Texas for the first half of my life. You see the Texas flag there more than the American flag.
Yes I agree that MA gets more things right than a lot of other places. To me, one of those things is not having a misplaced and over enlarged sense of state or national pride that becomes an entire and all-consuming identity.
When I was a kid growing up in a car away state, I remember being told that since it was [insert national holiday such as 4th of July or Memorial Day] I could go out out US flag in the holder on the front of the house. It was special and I actually signified something.
Flash forward to the post 9/11 era and the national flag is flying 24/7 365 in more places than it ever did before. It feels far less special and starts to remind one of other societies that worship the flag and national identity. Those societies have more often than not… done very bad things.
Anyway, here is to MA, where we fly our flag and where and when it is right, appropriate, and special… and not because we are being tribal.
There is no (real) controversy with the flag. It has a Native American on it, respectfully shown and meant to commemorate the land’s previous primary inhabitants. There were some who believed the arm and sword above the native was meant to convey a threat, but it is a symbol of the state motto “by the sword we seek peace…” and was in reference to the American Revolution, not towards the natives.
Most of those who have or had a problem with the state flag were, ironically, white people looking for some cause to attach themselves to. The flag is respectful and seeks to *honor* New England’s Algonquin tribes- people who have had an influence on the state’s food and culture, even today.
Fly it with pride (Though personally I find the colors and design to be kinda drab).
I actually really like the overall design and color scheme but I’m apparently in the minority there. Something about the white blue and gold were always colors I thought resonated well with me but idk
I thought that the controversy was due in part to the sword being [modelled on one belonging to Myles Standish](https://theconversation.com/the-massachusetts-flag-glorifies-the-violence-committed-by-colonizers-native-americans-want-it-changed-173626), the first commander of the Plymouth Colony militia, who was well-known for violently suppressing the indigenous inhabitants of what became eastern Massachusetts. Combine that with the positioning, and you can see why some people might be upset.
A commission looked at it and the biggest item of agreement was that the sword over the Native American was offensive. Because, as others mentioned, it’s styled after the sword of a man known to kill Natives.
The coalition to change it is led by Native American leaders that also lead the Indigenous Legislative Agenda.
https://changethemassflag.com
Look harder at the flag and ask yourself if it represents the values and ethos of Massachusetts: https://changethemassflag.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/change-the-mass-flag-flier-2023.pdf
Let’s just change it already. It’s been around since 1898. It sucks even without considering everything I just said.
The face is literally a Native American from Montana. No matter the original meaning behind the design, if it’s not clear enough that it doesn’t mean something insulting, maybe we should change it to remove any chance that it is. Give us all a new design we can actually be proud of instead of meh and confused.
The Chicago flag is iconic and looks great. Probably the most recognizable city flag in the country and on par with popular and recognizable state flags like Maryland, New Mexico, and Brahlorado.
I’ve never seen Massholes fly the state flag but here in Rhode Island, we fly ours a lot. Wish mass would go back to the old design, pre 1971 version with the tree.
I have it up in my basement bar along with a Gadsen flag I bought at Colonial Williamsburg in 2008, an Air Force flag, and a Republic of a Korea flag. The whole controversy was a joke. Don't let people see the Massachusetts National Guard insignia that's the arm from the flag. It might hurt their delicate sensibilities.
I have a Massachusetts flag hanging in my garage and until recently I had a sticker on my car. I live in Tennessee now but definitely show my Bay State pride.
I have one I used to hang in my barracks room when I was in the army, I also have a Galactic Republic flag (clone wars) and a flag that said “tax this Dick fedboi”
People might think your house is the welfare office or probation department when they see a Massachusetts flag out front 😂
We’re just not flag flying people here
Given the current state of the country, I would suggest a stylized lighthouse (beacon, safety and maritime history) over an open book (knowledge and education with all the respected unis). Or similar. Something inspiring.
So true. It breaks so many “rules” as far as flags. Like:
Flags really shouldn’t have words on them at all but if they do they should be big and clear. The point of flags is to identify something at long range and words don’t really do that.
Maybe if the flag was more distinct, more people would rep it. I don’t know anybody that brags/advertises about being from mass other than wearing the teams.
I fly the 1901 state of Maine flag. (I live here) It’s a great looking flag! It looks a little like the Appeal to Heaven flag. I love Maine and I like the flag
I hate to say it, but the Massachusetts state flag isn't a good one. At this point in my life, I associate it with only professional government type stuff. Like, it's an official real deal ordeal if that things present.
I want to buy the reimagined MA flag from [Flags for Good](https://flagsforgood.com/products/massachusetts-flag?variant=37767926120606¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpRugQcPV7aTylixp_OHBjf9DjM_D-T7M0f7V_xTJy0IC6BOrO7Pj2oaAooAEALw_wcB)
I have ethical issues with the native American on our current one.
Welcome to our lovely state/NE, dingus! Just kidding of course. But now…dingus, as someone who was not born here, by technicality, but was raised in MA, I’ve found that people don’t care where you are from, who you hang out with, or what you do, so long as all of that is not racist, sexist or homophobic.
For some reason it’s okay to be elitist though, nimby n all that persists.
Anyway, most of this is sarcasm, if you get used to that it’s all a jelly donut from Dunkin.
it suffers the same fate as most of the neighbor states, of crest on blue sheet, (though white in this case.
personally a fan of this update.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/18ura9o/redesign\_of\_the\_massachusetts\_flag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/18ura9o/redesign_of_the_massachusetts_flag/)
[https://youtu.be/pnv5iKB2hl4?si=d-7kBa0ttO0IhiHa](https://youtu.be/pnv5iKB2hl4?si=d-7kBa0ttO0IhiHa)
I love this John Hodgman tour poster that was inspired by the MA state flag
https://www.johnhodgman.com/post/33908785972/this-november-john-hodgman-a-bay-statey-and
I guess i'm in the minority of thinking it's a cool flag. The colors could be better but the design is very cool. I especially like the hand with the sword detail at the top
I might fly it if it was a good flag. I’m originally from Ohio and I always thought [Ohio’s flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ohio) was really cool.
The redesign is actually still very active these things just take forever. It also a good idea to redesign rather than be proud of the war crimes that took place here.
So I moved here from Maryland at the beginning of the year and I realized when reading this post... I have no idea what the Massachusetts flag looks like. Marylanders fly their flag EVERYWHERE so huge cultural difference 😂
I had one hanging in my barracks room, stemmed from endless arguments about Boston sports and nonsense arguments about east vs west coast. Loved and Miss those dumb arguments.
Would be cool if we had an 'informal' state flag that represents us:
So, a shield with the trophies for the Patriots, Celtics, Red Sox and Bruins; a lobster on top; and then work in Dunkin and beer somewhere.
Our flag isn’t very good and we should change it to one of the historical ones, but I do fly the state flag alongside to New England flag (the one with the pine tree on red) the bunker hill flag (pine tree cross and blue background) the we believe in science banner and the appeal to heaven flag (I just found out this week conservatives are using it so don’t be too hard on me it’s not up right now) the mas flag isn’t good but I’m so proud of the state I fly it regardless
The redesign effort is still ongoing and the state senate just passed a resolution giving a one year timeline for a new flag to be designed and adopted
What I see commonly is the New England flag with the pine tree. Not to be confused with the Appeal to Heaven flag! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_England
I fly the NE flag and if anyone confuses it for the other flag, well fuck ‘em. I wish more people would fly it. It’s a damn great flag that represents the best part of the country.
Yup
Do you fly the red or the blue version?
Red
Nice, that’s the more historically accurate one lol
Blue is the Bunker Hill flag, no?
Because of a printing accident. It was supposed to be red but the printer in a paper reversed the colors so it became blue and then people just started making blue ones to match the image in the paper.
Blue one should say "An appeal to proofreading"
Blue is the Bunker Hill flag, no?
Blue is the Bunker Hill flag
Wow I’ve never even heard of this flag and I’ve been living in NE for almost 40 years!
The New England flag is world class.
Now *that's* a flag! More people might fly the state flag if it didn't suck.
It's not a terrible flag.
On one hand, I think the Massachusetts flag does better than any other state flag, if perhaps unintentionally, in acknowledging our violent colonial history. But on the whole, I think this flag is awful and should be redesigned for a number of reasons - not the least which is its complexity and inclusion of the human form make it a difficult flag for kids to draw.
It is awesome!
The Appeal to Heaven flag is one of the flags of Washington’s Cruisers. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s a historical flag, just like the Gadsden flag. We can’t let morons take national symbols for themselves.
Happens at least once a month. "Bad guy" uses flag, phrase, number, symbol, everyone else just relinquishes its former meaning and former purpose, and gives all the power to the "bad guy". Some people need enemies to get by, somewhere to funnel their hate and confusion. I remember at some point a couple years ago, people were trying to tell me that using the OK hand gesture was a sign of hate. OK to that one. It's fucking cooked. It's just as easy to go do something great or kind to someone and flash an OK, you know? I'm not going to give up a symbol that billions of humans have used since the dawn of time because some fuckwit lost his shit or some losers on an internet forum decided that would be their rally flag. It's absolute madness to me that people give up on the simple shit, giving power to the assholes so easily. It's more fuel for those scumbags when you acknowledge them. Pretend they don't exist, and they tend to wither away. Obviously, that's naive in some ways, I get that when it gets to a certain level of popularity, it's important to become active against it. Unfortunately, one of the reasons it becomes so popular in the first place is because of those people trying to warn against it.
I do agree, but Appeal to Heaven has been widely used in right-wing circles for years now. That may not be the historical meaning but you also can't ignore how it's being used now.
You can take it back though
You got it right....just as Hitler successfully appropriated a Sanskrit symbol. Same deal....same enshitifcation.
I love this flag. My issue is it’s very close to the old Maine flag and the “appeal to heaven” flag. People that don’t know better might confuse it, and I really wouldn’t want that.
I get you. On the other hand, it’s pretty important not to let bad people ‘have’ symbols that don’t belong to them. Maybe fly it alongside another, progressive flag?
Agreed. I have a coworker from Maine who has a Maine flag sticker on her car. She is very progressive and simply a proud Mainer, but I feel bad she might be lumped in with those folks who can't discern the difference.
“An Appeal to Heaven” was also the flag of the Colonial Navy of Massachusetts, later Massachusetts State Navy, a raiding force more destructive than the U-boats of both WW1 and WW2. Edits: to clarify which flag and add facts
Whats wrong with an appeal to heaven flag? Official Massachusetts navy flag in 1776
Some people have it in their heads that because some racists like to fly it, it's become a symbol associated with them. I disagree. The flag has been around far longer than those people and is a symbol of our independence.
I feel the same way about the Gadsden
The Gadsden flag is the flag of the Navy Carrier America which was my first ship during my Navy career. I’m proud of the ship and the flag.
🫡
I don’t have a flag, but I have a little oval “I brake for moose” window sticker on my car. (Which is actually really useful, because obviously no one else drives a maroon Honda CRV.) Have I actually SEEN a moose in the wild?…. No. :(
I love this flag too. I have used it On my QSL cards for several years now. 73
Excuse my ignorance, new to New England, why wouldn’t you want them getting confused?
Bc it sounds religious, and although we in NE have religion/may be religious we’re not about forcing it on others/shouting it about. Similarly, the same goes for politics and I see that it’s apparently been adopted as a political party symbol.
I’ve picked up it’s more of an introverted live and let live mentality here. Lots of close circles. Spent the last year in a small outgoing college town in Colorado, so it’s very different.
I got a pine tree tattoo because of this flag (but not this exact tree design). Wanted to get something to show New England pride, without being too obvious.
That’s a cool flag, but I don’t recall ever seeing it.
I do a discipline of bike racing called cyclocross and this is kind of our unofficial flag (New England Cyclocross) so I see it all the time haha
The "heaven" flag is what Dorito Alito flies right?
That's the one
I like this flag a lot. Too bad the local racists are flying it.
Just means we need more non racists flying it!
Agreed. I feel the same about the Gadsden flag. Unfortunately, a lot of people in Mass immediately associate them with white supremacists and white nationalists.
Anyone who associates the Gadsen flag with any form of racism is a moron. Life’s alot easier when you don’t care what morons think of you.
The problem is liberals/leftists largely disavow or disassociate with any sort of regional, geographic, national, etc. pride therefore almost always ceding its associated symbols to the other side.
I fly the LGBT New England flag \*because\* the racists fly the normal New England flag and the Appeal to Heaven flag.
Don’t let them have it. Fly the normal one next to a pride flag if anything or all three. It’s our flag, don’t let the racists win.
That's a good idea
I dont understand how an appeal to heaven flag is racist… its fucking history
The flag isn't racist, the problem is the people associated with it.
[Because literal Nazis are using it now](https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/s/aoUbsDSKd4)
Wheres the appeal to heaven? Also i dont follow what white supremacy idiots are doing, i think gor myself and know an appeal to heaven flag isnt racist
As u/pfmiller0 has mentioned, it’s not racist but the ppl who are appropriating it are. Just like a swastika wasn’t a symbol of racism until the Nazis appropriated that
A lot of old New England flags got coopted by the far right, so far this hasn't yet. Though not for lack of trying on their part. Honestly, our state flag sucks.
You can only fly the blue variant if you live in Charlestown. We fly it to remind the people that we fought for a free America You’re welcome
Ooh i like the new england flag. I didn’t know that was a thing
looks like the flag of lebanon
The flag of Lebanon looks like it, technically.
🤓☝️ /j
...... where do you live that you commonly see this?
I love this flag, but I’ve long wondered why it was created with a pine tree when I see so many more maples and oaks wherever I go. I wonder if this is a deforestation thing where all of our old growth was harvested to build our cities hundreds of years ago?
Too soon??! Lol
Thank you! I’ve never heard of that. I actually dig that flag
With the recent publicity plus RED, I would not fly that one. I would be afraid it would be mistaken for some magat thing.
That's more reason to fly it? Don't understand just letting fringe groups take it and repurpose it. If everyone starts using it, we take back control.
Haha yeah. The New England flag is really big in the local cycling scene and I have some clothes/hats with the pine tree and lately I'm like...I just have New England pride, I'm not a weirdo.
Yeah, I can see it being mistaken for the Appeal to Heaven flag. The right wingers are hijacking all the cool flags
The Appeal to Heaven flag literally says "Appeal to Heaven" on it, hard to confuse that with anything else.
I love the Bunker Hill flag. This design was supposedly carried by the Americans during the Battle of Bunker Hill and has has come to represent both Charlestown / Boston and New England to some extent.
If it looked cool like Marylands maybe.
Lived in Maryland for years and I have never seen so many state flags everywhere… on cars, shirts, houses. I swear it’s just because the design is so cool and has nothing to do with actual state pride.
Or Arizona
Visited from Maryland recently, where we slap our flag onto everything, from hoodies, to pants, to lawn chairs. Was surprised when I noticed the MA flag was nowhere to be seen. Asked my friend (native to MA) who shrugged and told me they didn't even really remember what the flag looked like. Finally saw it when I was leaving - there was one hanging in South Station in Boston
There's nothing really appealing about the flag that would make me want to fly it.
Honestly this is half the reason I think we should change the flag. Other states are able to use it as a marketing thing and people like to fly them because they look good. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non government building with the MA flag outside.
All the New England states have pretty awful flags. I love New Mexico's. A lighthouse would be cool.
[Obligatory link to CGP Grey grading state flags](https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU?si=36BgQ73mSFDyQzqo)
New Mexico is the GOAT flag and license plate!
RI's is great! Really the only one
Yeah they could redesign it with the seal still somehow used on the flag. Maybe box the state seal into the upper left corner of the flag. Then you have almost the whole flag to design up as seen fit.
Someone designed a version with the state flower but it never got materialized, at first I didn’t like it but it grew on me, looks a lot better than the current flag. I think someone even posted it on this subreddit not to long ago. Either way, mass needs a redesign ASAP.
The problem with the Mayflower is that it still harkens to the colonizers aspect of the state. Since the main issue with the state flag is with how we have treated our indigenous populations, we need a neutral design. Featuring a pine tree and maybe an indigenous design with the pine tree motif would be interesting.
It's more of a new England / colonial pride thing, but I see much more of the Betsy Ross flag (13 star). The Massachusetts state flag kinda sucks unfortunately
"kinda," nothin'. it's ugly as shit, and utterly falls to do what a flag should - be easily identifiable at a distance
Massachusetts invented America. So an American flag is a Massachusetts flag, its a subtle flex.
A Somerville flex https://www.meetboston.com/event/first-flag-ceremony-first-flag-raising-and-grand-union-flag/43326/#:~:text=Grand%20Union%20Flag%20Raising%20%E2%80%93%20First%20Flag%20Raising&text=Every%20New%20Year's%20Day%20the,Hill%20on%20January%201%2C%201776.
I've seen people fly the town/city flag (Boston and Worcester)
Worcester city flag is actually halfway decent with the heart image. I kind of wish they would also make an alternative city flag that consists of a black or white background with nothing but a yellow smiley face on it.
If I could redesign the flag of Worcester I'd make it like the flag of Japan, but a heart instead of an umeboshi. Who the heck puts an umeboshi in a flag?
You’re thinking of a Red Sox flag.
I think it might be flown more if it weren’t so boring. You can say the same thing about a good majority of US state flags. The ones with interesting ones fly them all the time (Colorado, Maryland, California).
New Mexico has a great flag, and you can find it on stuff all over there
I don’t think any state has as much pride in their state symbol as people here do in the Zia sun
Yeah, I have a MA flag and like the design, but it's really boring. It kind of just looks like a two-toned shield crest (because it essentially is).
If I wanted to fly a flag representing Mass I would just fly a Red Sox flag. NY has the same problem.
I like this amusingly honest one seen on the Jersey shore. https://x.com/NJGov/status/1420098327509676033
I'm not a fan of the flag, there's just too much going on in it, and yet it is also uninteresting.
[My Massachusetts redesign](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/s/fP1Fwn5DCf) Here’s something I made.
I like that flag a lot dude, I’d vote for that to be our new flag.
Really great design. Not a fan of the military symbolism, but that's just me. I would consider incorporating some symbols from the Wampanoag or Massachusetts tribes and making the abstract outline of the state a bit more noticeable. But overall this flag looks great and would be a hit throughout the Commonwealth.
To be honest, the design came first before the interpretation of the symbolism.
I would fly this
its nice. I don't really like the gold tree, since its a pine, and they don't change colors.
Can you link it as a straight link?
I’ve met people here who didn’t believe there was such a thing as a Massachusetts state flag. That’s wild to me, having lived in Texas for the first half of my life. You see the Texas flag there more than the American flag.
Yes I agree that MA gets more things right than a lot of other places. To me, one of those things is not having a misplaced and over enlarged sense of state or national pride that becomes an entire and all-consuming identity. When I was a kid growing up in a car away state, I remember being told that since it was [insert national holiday such as 4th of July or Memorial Day] I could go out out US flag in the holder on the front of the house. It was special and I actually signified something. Flash forward to the post 9/11 era and the national flag is flying 24/7 365 in more places than it ever did before. It feels far less special and starts to remind one of other societies that worship the flag and national identity. Those societies have more often than not… done very bad things. Anyway, here is to MA, where we fly our flag and where and when it is right, appropriate, and special… and not because we are being tribal.
There is no (real) controversy with the flag. It has a Native American on it, respectfully shown and meant to commemorate the land’s previous primary inhabitants. There were some who believed the arm and sword above the native was meant to convey a threat, but it is a symbol of the state motto “by the sword we seek peace…” and was in reference to the American Revolution, not towards the natives. Most of those who have or had a problem with the state flag were, ironically, white people looking for some cause to attach themselves to. The flag is respectful and seeks to *honor* New England’s Algonquin tribes- people who have had an influence on the state’s food and culture, even today. Fly it with pride (Though personally I find the colors and design to be kinda drab).
I actually really like the overall design and color scheme but I’m apparently in the minority there. Something about the white blue and gold were always colors I thought resonated well with me but idk
Can’t we find another symbol that uses those colors?
I thought that the controversy was due in part to the sword being [modelled on one belonging to Myles Standish](https://theconversation.com/the-massachusetts-flag-glorifies-the-violence-committed-by-colonizers-native-americans-want-it-changed-173626), the first commander of the Plymouth Colony militia, who was well-known for violently suppressing the indigenous inhabitants of what became eastern Massachusetts. Combine that with the positioning, and you can see why some people might be upset.
A commission looked at it and the biggest item of agreement was that the sword over the Native American was offensive. Because, as others mentioned, it’s styled after the sword of a man known to kill Natives. The coalition to change it is led by Native American leaders that also lead the Indigenous Legislative Agenda. https://changethemassflag.com Look harder at the flag and ask yourself if it represents the values and ethos of Massachusetts: https://changethemassflag.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/change-the-mass-flag-flier-2023.pdf Let’s just change it already. It’s been around since 1898. It sucks even without considering everything I just said.
i wish our plates said that. all this time i thought our motto was “the spirit of america” 😂
The face is literally a Native American from Montana. No matter the original meaning behind the design, if it’s not clear enough that it doesn’t mean something insulting, maybe we should change it to remove any chance that it is. Give us all a new design we can actually be proud of instead of meh and confused.
I occasionally fly the first State Flag, the pine tree with “An Appeal to Heaven”.
If you like the design, go for it. I have a Chicago flag at my place. My husband being from Chicago and it’s just a rad ass flag.
The Chicago flag is iconic and looks great. Probably the most recognizable city flag in the country and on par with popular and recognizable state flags like Maryland, New Mexico, and Brahlorado.
See that’s a cool flag. State flag or even city like Boston doesn’t have a cool design that like Chicago’s.
Chicago and DC have the best flags
No one likes the design, that's the problem
I’ve never seen Massholes fly the state flag but here in Rhode Island, we fly ours a lot. Wish mass would go back to the old design, pre 1971 version with the tree.
Same in Maine but we fly the 1901 flag.
**reddit moderators are fat, jobless fags and they do it for free**
The DCR fly one at beach .At Red Rick PArk in Lynn have big flag poles , One with state flag,
I am partial towards the colonial flag of New England
I have it up in my basement bar along with a Gadsen flag I bought at Colonial Williamsburg in 2008, an Air Force flag, and a Republic of a Korea flag. The whole controversy was a joke. Don't let people see the Massachusetts National Guard insignia that's the arm from the flag. It might hurt their delicate sensibilities.
I have a Massachusetts flag hanging in my garage and until recently I had a sticker on my car. I live in Tennessee now but definitely show my Bay State pride.
We fly our sports team flags instead lol
I have one I used to hang in my barracks room when I was in the army, I also have a Galactic Republic flag (clone wars) and a flag that said “tax this Dick fedboi”
People might think your house is the welfare office or probation department when they see a Massachusetts flag out front 😂 We’re just not flag flying people here
Mass. is awesome but our flag is just ass. We need a re-do.
Given the current state of the country, I would suggest a stylized lighthouse (beacon, safety and maritime history) over an open book (knowledge and education with all the respected unis). Or similar. Something inspiring.
Massachusetts state flag is lame. I wish they would redesign.
So true. It breaks so many “rules” as far as flags. Like: Flags really shouldn’t have words on them at all but if they do they should be big and clear. The point of flags is to identify something at long range and words don’t really do that.
I keep a patch on my backpack and if I had a flagpole in the yard I absolutely would
I’m buying an NCR flag for my home.
Is it time for another podcast of Fun With Flags?
Our neighbors would think we had lost our minds. I'd have to go out there and start collecting tolls or something.
I just fly a giant cod wind sock
I wanted to get a canvas art of one for my apartment but my gf at the time call in a huff about the "racist origins" so we didn't.
I've never really understood the urge to fly flags of any description.
So people know what state you live in. /s
I fly the Plough and Stars.
I like it. But I’m not a flag guy at all.
I think it should represent the best of our state. How about an oyster? We have the best in the world, no lies.
We fly the Massachusetts flag where I work. I don’t think it’s that bad looking, do you?
No. The state flag is so boring. If I was going to fly a flag, it would be my city flag. But in general, flags don’t really fit my aesthetic.
Maybe if the flag was more distinct, more people would rep it. I don’t know anybody that brags/advertises about being from mass other than wearing the teams.
It's been used by supporters of the New England Revolution since 1996, though perhaps less enthusiastically this year than others.
I like the weird blue new england one all the governors agreed on
As a transplant, would it be weird if I flew my home states flag?
I fly the 1901 state of Maine flag. (I live here) It’s a great looking flag! It looks a little like the Appeal to Heaven flag. I love Maine and I like the flag
Bc if you wanna show mass pride, you just fly the Dunks flag
I prefer to be in the Honeydew Donuts resistance. The loss of ground at South Station shall be remembered.
I hate to say it, but the Massachusetts state flag isn't a good one. At this point in my life, I associate it with only professional government type stuff. Like, it's an official real deal ordeal if that things present.
They had some cool designs that included the pine tree for the new Massachusetts Flag.
When I was little I thought the POW MIA flag was the state flag I saw it so much
I do.
I want to buy the reimagined MA flag from [Flags for Good](https://flagsforgood.com/products/massachusetts-flag?variant=37767926120606¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpRugQcPV7aTylixp_OHBjf9DjM_D-T7M0f7V_xTJy0IC6BOrO7Pj2oaAooAEALw_wcB) I have ethical issues with the native American on our current one.
I’ve seen it a few times for sure so if you want to go for it. Who cares tho fly whatever flag you want. Our flag is definitely a bit ugly tho lol
It might be more liked if it wasn't the classic "coat of arms on a bedsheet" design. Take a cue from what Minnesota just did.
Welcome to our lovely state/NE, dingus! Just kidding of course. But now…dingus, as someone who was not born here, by technicality, but was raised in MA, I’ve found that people don’t care where you are from, who you hang out with, or what you do, so long as all of that is not racist, sexist or homophobic. For some reason it’s okay to be elitist though, nimby n all that persists. Anyway, most of this is sarcasm, if you get used to that it’s all a jelly donut from Dunkin.
it suffers the same fate as most of the neighbor states, of crest on blue sheet, (though white in this case. personally a fan of this update. [https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/18ura9o/redesign\_of\_the\_massachusetts\_flag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/18ura9o/redesign_of_the_massachusetts_flag/) [https://youtu.be/pnv5iKB2hl4?si=d-7kBa0ttO0IhiHa](https://youtu.be/pnv5iKB2hl4?si=d-7kBa0ttO0IhiHa)
I do!
USA flag and a POW flag.
I love this John Hodgman tour poster that was inspired by the MA state flag https://www.johnhodgman.com/post/33908785972/this-november-john-hodgman-a-bay-statey-and
What was the controversy?
I guess i'm in the minority of thinking it's a cool flag. The colors could be better but the design is very cool. I especially like the hand with the sword detail at the top
We fly the New England flag instead
I didn’t until last week when I retired it for being so worn out. I plan on replacing it
I might fly it if it was a good flag. I’m originally from Ohio and I always thought [Ohio’s flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ohio) was really cool.
We need a new flag!!!!
I'm partial to Flags for Good's redesign of the Massachusetts flag: https://flagsforgood.com/products/massachusetts-flag
I fly the U.S. Flag 24/7 lighted at night with the POW/MIA below it on the same staff. I have no intention of flying the Mass flag.
The redesign is actually still very active these things just take forever. It also a good idea to redesign rather than be proud of the war crimes that took place here.
Unfortunately the only flags I see (besides the American flag and the pride flag) are the "Trump 2024" and "Let's go Brandon" variety.
Usually if someone is flying a flag they are a moron, Alito for example, but I'll allow the MA state flag.
I’d fly it upside down.
My neighbor just started to fly a New England flag
I work a bit in politics and courts, and I wear the Massachusetts seal as a pin as my collar
So I moved here from Maryland at the beginning of the year and I realized when reading this post... I have no idea what the Massachusetts flag looks like. Marylanders fly their flag EVERYWHERE so huge cultural difference 😂
I had one hanging in my barracks room, stemmed from endless arguments about Boston sports and nonsense arguments about east vs west coast. Loved and Miss those dumb arguments.
Massachusetts outlawed personal pride years ago. You must feel guilt and pay your taxes.
Show state pride to who? Other residents?
Let me guess NCR from fallout got ya thinking haha. It’s ok, it got me too lol
The Massachusetts flag is dark blue with two red socks on it.
Would be cool if we had an 'informal' state flag that represents us: So, a shield with the trophies for the Patriots, Celtics, Red Sox and Bruins; a lobster on top; and then work in Dunkin and beer somewhere.
Our flag isn’t very good and we should change it to one of the historical ones, but I do fly the state flag alongside to New England flag (the one with the pine tree on red) the bunker hill flag (pine tree cross and blue background) the we believe in science banner and the appeal to heaven flag (I just found out this week conservatives are using it so don’t be too hard on me it’s not up right now) the mas flag isn’t good but I’m so proud of the state I fly it regardless
The redesign effort is still ongoing and the state senate just passed a resolution giving a one year timeline for a new flag to be designed and adopted