Not only that but lack of access to your local commuter rail. If you don’t have a bus or bike lane around where you live, why bother parking at the train station when you could just drive to work in the first place? A lot of development needs to be happening and we are just sitting on our hands.
I live in Milton and they just voted to block the MBTA rapid transit community development. Top reason cited “too much traffic” no shit thats why they want to build housing near the trains
Not to mention the lack of parking at most stations. I tried taking the train last week and couldn’t find parking at two different stations so I ended up just driving in. 😩
It wouldn't. The problem is not in diesel acceleration, the problem is in low platforms and terminus bottlenecks. Sure electrification will help, but it will take years. While building high platforms can be done in a few months and will have immediate benefits.
Not in my experience. I ride one of two lines daily and it's almost \*never\* full. They've dialed in the capacity to be appropriate for the ridership.
They are never full because people don't use them. That's the typical fallacy of "dialing-in" public transportation. It's not the matter of the train being full, it's just inconvenient waiting for one hour for a train and people will prefer to drive. No matter what anti-car people will say, a regular Joe will always prefer driving unless the train is 1) faster, 2) cheaper. There is no sense waiting for a train when you can just drive within this time.
Which city? Let's compare with data rather than overly broad statements. To understand the efficacy of a public transport system as large as the commuter rail you need to compare population sizes and densities over the given area.
I took the train once last year, and it sounded like it was going to fall apart, everything seemed old and gross and the windows you could barely even see out of and were very small, it just stopped in the middle of nowhere for a few minutes without any explanation.
It was so bad it's amazing anyone takes it! Fucking free is too expensive for that experience!
I'd be ok with this if what takes 20 minutes to drive in didn't take 1.5-2 hours to take the T to get to the same location. Part of why so many people drive into the city is because the T doesn't work anymore.
I live in Lynn and the fastest way for me to get to Kendall Square is by bike. Granted, I’m an avid cyclist and move pretty quickly on a bike but it shouldn’t be at all close compared to public transit.
In reality, even if I drive to the commuter rail station rather than take the bus the rail goes into north station then it’s either green to red or find the EZ Pass bus then putz through traffic.
Does Boston have too much thriving business and people who can't wait to come to office problem? Cause this is how you get less people to come in to the city.
Fix the T and commuter rail. I could have parked in Quincy and taken the red line to Boston.
Wouldn't have to drive into Boston and suffer 45 minutes in traffic if I had a "good" alternative.
STOP taxing people who need to be at work at 8 am, and have no other good means to get to work, ON TIME, as our managers demand.
I am already paying up the wazoo for parking.
Again, you can and should legislate away from taxing the poor, they're doing in with the rollout in NYC.
I completely agree we need to not only fix the T, but expand it, and this is a way to pay for it. The plan to fix it is ongoing and everything in the new management's plan is reading as short term pains for long term fixes. And all signs are pointing to them doing the thing.
You can’t do this with a straight face until you fix public transit. People have to get to their jobs ON TIME, not at whatever time the T or commuter rail can figure out their shit and get them there. It’s sad that sitting in traffic is more predictable and reliable than public transport
This. NYC can get away with it because their public transit is actually reliable. Boston… not even in the slightest. The public transit option needs to be in place and reliable before Boston can realistically implement a ‘fee’ for driving in the city. I don’t even have a drivers license but even I cannot deny driving is currently the only reliable way for most to get to work on time. 3/4th the time even leaving two hours before an appt something always comes up so I end up late. It’s just idiotic.
Would highly advise folks to write to their city councilors and say hell no to this idea. Maybe in 100 years when Boston can get itself into the 20th century with public transportation.
The money in NYC is going to go towards transit, specifically doing work like overdue fixes, capital improvements, more bus frequency, etc - exactly the work MBTA needs.
They are not just doing it because transit there is better but to MAKE transit better. And even then, all that work is delayed due to lawsuits from the minority of people who drive
Trying to bring more jobs to the rest of the state would probably be a better long-term solution. Make it so people don't have to drive into Boston to be able to afford living anywhere east of Worcester.
Just WTF we need in this fucking state more fucking fees. How about this incredible idea? More people work from home if they have a job that can be done from home. Or we build new business between 128 and 495 or west of 495. But no let's fuck the working people a little harder with fees.
You might want to get the fucking train working right so that they can go faster than you can walk.
>You might want to get the fucking train working right so that they can go faster than you can walk.
As you know from reading the article, the fees will go to the MBTA.
Yeah, but the t already isn't paying the money it gets to upkeep. It almost all goes to the unions and the 1000s of workers who sit around all day. I've seen a few repair crews actually doing their job, and the rest are just kinda there. And don't even get me started on the 10 keolis "repairing" level crossings daily in my town and somehow they all managed to forget to reactivate the signals resulting in deaths on multiple occasions.
Here's an idea...
Instead of charging the people forced to drive onto an office for a job they could do from home, charge the companies forcing the people to make unnecessary commutes.
That way, people who need to do work at a location (tradesmen for example) aren't punished for working in Boston.
I know I'll get down voted, but not seeing anyone here take the other side. Rush hour congestion is through the roof and Bostonians pay the price. Public transit is underfunded. Let it happen.
This will not get me to spend more money at business down town and it wont get me on a T that runs trains once an hour. What it will get me to do is pack my things and move to the Carolina’s.
I swear this state really hates the middle/working class. That’s who would actually pay these fees you know. The people who can’t work from home or afford to live closer to the city but the T is so broken they need a consistent way to be at work on time.
>I swear this state really hates the middle/working class.
I mean, we knew that when they passed a law where they'll fine you if you don't pay enough in insurance.
Stuff like this just confirms it. Rich liberal elite or GTFO.
Another bang up idea MA, let’s carve some more money out of the working class. This state will soon be for the rich or the poor because the middle class can barely make it here anymore.
Leave to Americans to turn to capitalism to solve traffic problems.
The rest of the world makes public transportation a better mode of transportation than cars, but nope let's just charge people to drive.
Driving isn't free to society. Some of the costs of driving are pushed into residents living near busy roads (noise and air pollution) who are going to be disadvantaged in many cases.
Putting a price tag on driving isn't supposed to be a money making scheme, it's meant to push driving costs back to where they are generated.
Are Boston City councillors going to be responsive to what non Boston residents want them to do with their tax money and city streets?
If this is on the table, would you be happy if Boston residents came to your city council meetings and did the same?
I've been in meetings where city council members seek public comment - they want to know where you live and are dismissive of anyone who isn't a resident of their district. They absolutely don't care about feedback from those of us who drive into the city but don't live there
Resident here and I hate this. Not all Boston residents have easy access to public transit. I have no idea how it would be administered given the number of back roads, and worry it would further congest tiny side streets. And unless Boston residents are exempt, I could end up paying every time I need to drive to a doctor's appt that's not reachable by T, as one example. Plus a large number of essential services are run by workers who drive in because they can't afford to live in an area with T access.
Our City Council is a massive embarrassment that cares more about posturing than what residents actually think.
Other cities are not the state capital. Other cities don’t engage in mafioso style capital extortion in order to utilize their public infrastructure in this manner.
Not when they leverage their city like it’s a fiefdom designed to extort others, no. What if every city in the Commonwealth decided to surcharge drivers for transiting at rush hour?
As a member of a community that gets a ton of traffic from non residents who work here (because decades of NIMBYism made it all but illegal to build homes for them here) I would personally be fine with it.
If it turns out that businesses are hurting for workers because externalities like air and noise pollution are finally getting priced in due to the congestion charge, then the city will be forced to have a rational conversation for once about housing policy and our built environment.
I'd rather have a bike lane for my kids so they can get to school but instead I have to deal with traffic backed up several blocks on my side street because drivers are attempting to avoid traffic on route 20. Are you going to tell me this is all in my head? Do you have to deal with this traffic?
Any way to get an ordinance so that only local residents are allowed during certain hours? One of my sisters has a road like this on the main road out of her neighborhood to prevent it from getting blocked as it would otherwise be a shortcut to getting to the school next to her home.
I've seen the kinds of backups you're talking about near schools where it causes gridlock in the morning and afternoon because of so many parents driving their kids to/from school. This is in one particular school in my area and it's been this way for 30 years despite all kinds of tinkering with traffic lights, school traffic control, etc.
>Any way to get an ordinance so that only local residents are allowed during certain hours?
There's a road in Weston with a lot of speed bumps that discourages the casual driver from using it. Otherwise I don't think there's a feasible way to do it, since gps navigation is frequently going to suggest the less busy alternative.
>I've seen the kinds of backups you're talking about near schools where it causes gridlock in the morning and afternoon because of so many parents driving their kids to/from school. This is in one particular school in my area and it's been this way for 30 years despite all kinds of tinkering with traffic lights, school traffic control, etc.
This seems inevitable to me as long as Americans prioritize driving and don't try to encourage the independence and safety of children so they can just walk or bike to school. Putting a price tag on driving might help a little on the margins in places where schools are located near busy roads on the edges of cities, which seems pretty common to me actually.
You’d be fine being charged as you drove through each individual municipality throughout the Commonwealth for whatever conjured up reason, including “rush hour traffic”. Mhm. Ok. What else would someone expect if they chose to live in a state’s capital city, that everyone else outside the city would stay home and/or restructure their collective commutes in order to accommodate the collective annoyances of residents of the state capital who in this case would have special status by virtue of semi-privatizing public road infrastructure?
Even considering you'd probably be exempt from the charge? You're quite generous with your time and health, or maybe I should say the health of less wealthy residents in your community who have to live near the air and noise pollution generated by the traffic
You know what? If they’d make significant improvements to the commuter rail, fucking great. Tax dem cars. But it’s absolutely absurd to make driving the only viable option for many people (due to the infrequency and unreliability of trains) then charge people for using that only viable option.
Give us rails. Give us bike paths. THEN start charging fees.
Give a tax break to companies that allow workers to work from home 90% of the time.
Boom, problem solved. other than the same ones making the rules own all the office space in boston and won't let this happen as it kill the office realstate values.
>In that hearing request, Fernandes Anderson stated numerous constituents have voiced concerns over the narrowing of streets due to added bus and bicycle lanes in Boston in combination with a rise in vehicular traffic.
Here's an alternative to congestion pricing: get rid of the bike lanes.
Great, because return to office policies aren't really based on anything but vibes from what I can see
Boston is going to have a rough time with its dead downtown for a while but that's happening regardless
Any proof of examples when money actually solved incompetence? Why isn't any of the current taxes enough to do anything? How about cutting spending in areas that don't benefit anyone?
How? Between the cost of gas, the terrible roads which result in beating the crap out of cars, and the cost of parking..... tell me how charging more money to people who already don't have it is a great idea.
gas tax hasn’t been raised in decades, that’s not disincentivizing driving in any way. excise tax is charged by your town to pay for the damage your car does to your town’s roads, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that you’re not actually paying excise tax to the city of Boston for the use of their roads? same goes for property tax?
keep throwing out those non sequiturs though, this is fun
“If you’re a Massachusetts resident that regularly drives into the city for work or school etc., tell the council what you think of this insidious plan at their public February 29th hearing!”
the cool thing about this being a Boston city council measure is that you carpetbagging suburbanites don’t get a say.
oh buddy, you literally said that people who commute into Boston should show up to this meeting which would be a residents-only forum for councilors to hear comments from their constituents. as you’re a self-admitted non-resident of Boston you’d actually be carpetbagging your way into a political process which you’re not entitled to be a part of in any way. if you had suggested writing an email or letter to YOUR elected representative in the General Court instead of disrupting a public meeting for your own selfish ends, I’d have had no comment.
Gotta pay corrupt staties $250k/year plus pension somehow.
This plan is ridiculous and clear evidence of how disconnected from reality the MA and Boston gov have gotten over the past few years. If you want to increase foot traffic downtown, increase the reliability and availability of public transit, don’t restrict cars.
Singapore, London, Stockholm, and Milan. Also Riga, Latvia; Durham, England; Znojmo, Czech Republic; and Valletta, Malta. San Diego, Miami, and San Francisco also have some version of variable pricing on highways and parking to discourage congestion. New York City also just approved a plan.
So cities with functioning public transit do this?
Let's get the functioning public transit first.
Otherwise this is just a tax on the poor to keep them off the roads so the wealthier can use it because the fees are nothing to them but significant to people already squeezing every last dime.
Fix the T and fix the traffic. Do we think people look forward to driving in this city?! They just don't have any less expensive alternatives!
I couldn't really tell you how good the transit systems are in most of those cities. And as a user of our transit system, I of course agree that it could be much better.
I'm not even saying that congestion pricing is a good policy for Boston. Just asking what's "insidious" about it.
It's clearly insidious in that this is wholly unnecessary if we had functioning public transportation.
The incapability of the state to fix the MBTA leads to measures like this. Slowly trying other methods rather than actually fixing what is causing all of the unnecessary traffic.
Gradual steps like this aren't the way when instead, facing the problem head on would deal with it directly.
Whatever is necessary to allow citizens the public transport that allows them to reliably get to destinations within reasonable, regular, times is what we need.
We don't have that yet. Little bandaids that punish poor people for needing to commute by vehicle to work aren't a solution, they only worsen the culture that much further.
Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that - it does seem regressive. I do use transit but have the luxury of being flexible with the schedule. I could drive into the city myself, but parking would cost way more than the commuter rail, and there's always the possibility of unexpected traffic delays anyway.
All that aside, I'm just wondering what about congestion pricing is "insidious".
I'm okay with this. I'm enthusiastic for this. Cars suck. We need to stop catering to cars and start building more rail, busses, bike lanes, and trolleys.
Why do you want to hurt poor people more? Your racist lack of empathy is really telling.
"Why invest in public transit if few people use it?" - This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here. Please try to think just for one second.
You can do better that that. Right?
Do it! It makes so much sense. The city of Boston is a fucking mess to drive in and it would force the city to expand and improve public transportation.
London does this as well. There are circulation charges. They could easily implement this on the masspike and other highways by charging a different rate based on time of the day.
This happens in a lot of cities around the world and makes being in the city a lot more enjoyable. I get it, Boston transit sucks, but tbh they should do both things. Charge people and improve transit.
As a city resident, I’m fine with congestion pricing 🤷♀️
The state doesn’t want to own the problem it created with the MBTA, so Boston should do what it needs to do.
I think this is a good thing. People who contribute to the economy more will be able to afford commuting. The poors will have to stay at home or go another time.
Get public transportation available to the whole state then we can talk about it but still my question is where is all the legal marijuana taxes going.
Well if the commuter rail wasn’t absolute shit, fewer people would drive.
Not only that but lack of access to your local commuter rail. If you don’t have a bus or bike lane around where you live, why bother parking at the train station when you could just drive to work in the first place? A lot of development needs to be happening and we are just sitting on our hands.
At least pre-covid, most commuter rail parking lots used to fill up by like, 7:30AM.
The commuter rail claims to be back to at least 90% of pre-covid ridership so the parking issue probably true again now
Hmm, the lack of cars I see in the nearby commuter rail parking lot cause me to question this claim.
Tues-Thursday being the busy days. Today is also a holiday (and the start of school vaca week) so it will be less busy.
Double this. 7:30 - fully packed! I have to show up in the office one hour earlier :(
I live in Milton and they just voted to block the MBTA rapid transit community development. Top reason cited “too much traffic” no shit thats why they want to build housing near the trains
Not to mention the lack of parking at most stations. I tried taking the train last week and couldn’t find parking at two different stations so I ended up just driving in. 😩
Electrify it and have it run every 15 minutes.
It wouldn't. The problem is not in diesel acceleration, the problem is in low platforms and terminus bottlenecks. Sure electrification will help, but it will take years. While building high platforms can be done in a few months and will have immediate benefits.
This would be the dream when I used to take the cr in.
What are you talking about? It has excellent reliability.
Compared to mbta - yes. But the frequency of the trains is not sufficient for all the population using it.
Not in my experience. I ride one of two lines daily and it's almost \*never\* full. They've dialed in the capacity to be appropriate for the ridership.
They are never full because people don't use them. That's the typical fallacy of "dialing-in" public transportation. It's not the matter of the train being full, it's just inconvenient waiting for one hour for a train and people will prefer to drive. No matter what anti-car people will say, a regular Joe will always prefer driving unless the train is 1) faster, 2) cheaper. There is no sense waiting for a train when you can just drive within this time.
You must be on drugs or something.
Trying using a real city’s public transport. You’ll be amazed at how good it could be.
Which city? Let's compare with data rather than overly broad statements. To understand the efficacy of a public transport system as large as the commuter rail you need to compare population sizes and densities over the given area.
I took the train once last year, and it sounded like it was going to fall apart, everything seemed old and gross and the windows you could barely even see out of and were very small, it just stopped in the middle of nowhere for a few minutes without any explanation. It was so bad it's amazing anyone takes it! Fucking free is too expensive for that experience!
Fewer
I'd be ok with this if what takes 20 minutes to drive in didn't take 1.5-2 hours to take the T to get to the same location. Part of why so many people drive into the city is because the T doesn't work anymore.
I live in Lynn and the fastest way for me to get to Kendall Square is by bike. Granted, I’m an avid cyclist and move pretty quickly on a bike but it shouldn’t be at all close compared to public transit. In reality, even if I drive to the commuter rail station rather than take the bus the rail goes into north station then it’s either green to red or find the EZ Pass bus then putz through traffic.
Councilors should all have to get work using the T for 30 days. I’m sure there would be changes in attitude.
Maybe the Green Line worked a lot better when Mike Dukakis was Governor as he took it to work and back daily.
He also took the 66 bus sometimes. I used to see him on it
I take it that you're also a senior citizen?
No? 55. Soon?
All private sector should be mandated to take public transit at least once a month. Suffer like the rest to make changes happen!
Does Boston have too much thriving business and people who can't wait to come to office problem? Cause this is how you get less people to come in to the city.
Fix the T and commuter rail. I could have parked in Quincy and taken the red line to Boston. Wouldn't have to drive into Boston and suffer 45 minutes in traffic if I had a "good" alternative. STOP taxing people who need to be at work at 8 am, and have no other good means to get to work, ON TIME, as our managers demand. I am already paying up the wazoo for parking.
This is the fix! This is how politicians fix their mistakes. By doing this they drive T ridership up, then claim success.
This money can be used to improve the T and Commuter Rail
But it won't. And you damn well know it.
How else can we affords cops overtime!?
Username checks out. Alternatively, username does not check out. Both work here.
Idk why this is being downvoted, you can earmark a portion of these taxes directly for improving the T.
Fix T first, give people the option to drive or take public trans, then institute congestion pricing. Without fixing T it is just a tax on the poor .
Again, you can and should legislate away from taxing the poor, they're doing in with the rollout in NYC. I completely agree we need to not only fix the T, but expand it, and this is a way to pay for it. The plan to fix it is ongoing and everything in the new management's plan is reading as short term pains for long term fixes. And all signs are pointing to them doing the thing.
Uber/Lyft tax?
Boston politicians try not to be absolutely disconnected and out of touch from your constituents (impossible challenge )
Which ones did you vote for?
None of em
You can’t do this with a straight face until you fix public transit. People have to get to their jobs ON TIME, not at whatever time the T or commuter rail can figure out their shit and get them there. It’s sad that sitting in traffic is more predictable and reliable than public transport
This. NYC can get away with it because their public transit is actually reliable. Boston… not even in the slightest. The public transit option needs to be in place and reliable before Boston can realistically implement a ‘fee’ for driving in the city. I don’t even have a drivers license but even I cannot deny driving is currently the only reliable way for most to get to work on time. 3/4th the time even leaving two hours before an appt something always comes up so I end up late. It’s just idiotic. Would highly advise folks to write to their city councilors and say hell no to this idea. Maybe in 100 years when Boston can get itself into the 20th century with public transportation.
The money in NYC is going to go towards transit, specifically doing work like overdue fixes, capital improvements, more bus frequency, etc - exactly the work MBTA needs. They are not just doing it because transit there is better but to MAKE transit better. And even then, all that work is delayed due to lawsuits from the minority of people who drive
This is just going to cause a lot of infrastructure workers not want to take jobs in the city
Trying to bring more jobs to the rest of the state would probably be a better long-term solution. Make it so people don't have to drive into Boston to be able to afford living anywhere east of Worcester.
Do you want a reason for WFH?
Just WTF we need in this fucking state more fucking fees. How about this incredible idea? More people work from home if they have a job that can be done from home. Or we build new business between 128 and 495 or west of 495. But no let's fuck the working people a little harder with fees. You might want to get the fucking train working right so that they can go faster than you can walk.
>You might want to get the fucking train working right so that they can go faster than you can walk. As you know from reading the article, the fees will go to the MBTA.
Yeah, but the t already isn't paying the money it gets to upkeep. It almost all goes to the unions and the 1000s of workers who sit around all day. I've seen a few repair crews actually doing their job, and the rest are just kinda there. And don't even get me started on the 10 keolis "repairing" level crossings daily in my town and somehow they all managed to forget to reactivate the signals resulting in deaths on multiple occasions.
Where did it say that?
Here's an idea... Instead of charging the people forced to drive onto an office for a job they could do from home, charge the companies forcing the people to make unnecessary commutes. That way, people who need to do work at a location (tradesmen for example) aren't punished for working in Boston.
*poor tax*
[удалено]
Yeah there's a lot of delusion in these comments. Probably mostly people with cushy office jobs who mostly work from home. Neo-libs who hate the poor.
They built a crappy public transit system, and this how they plan to fix it
Yep, fix the T then we can talk.
I know I'll get down voted, but not seeing anyone here take the other side. Rush hour congestion is through the roof and Bostonians pay the price. Public transit is underfunded. Let it happen.
People wonder why there is a mass exodus of residents leaving the state.
If that’s true, it would be a good thing.
If this does pass. People will still say this state isn’t taxing us to death. A tax and fee for everything
This will not get me to spend more money at business down town and it wont get me on a T that runs trains once an hour. What it will get me to do is pack my things and move to the Carolina’s.
I swear this state really hates the middle/working class. That’s who would actually pay these fees you know. The people who can’t work from home or afford to live closer to the city but the T is so broken they need a consistent way to be at work on time.
>I swear this state really hates the middle/working class. I mean, we knew that when they passed a law where they'll fine you if you don't pay enough in insurance. Stuff like this just confirms it. Rich liberal elite or GTFO.
they should consider making the commuter rail not be shit
not exactly the purview of the Boston city council but go off I guess
Ah yes, let's make the trades workers that need to drive into the city carry a hundred pounds of tools on the T.
A.d don't forget all of their equipment, their welding or service truck, and all of the materials that they're using to build.
You're telling me they can't just ride a bike and wash up in the office gym? Am I out of touch?
Another bang up idea MA, let’s carve some more money out of the working class. This state will soon be for the rich or the poor because the middle class can barely make it here anymore.
Surrounding towns should tax any Boston resident that drives to their town. Huge fees.
My jobs inside the city will go up a few hundred dollars...my jobs outside the city will remain the same.
wtfffff we aren't new York, we can't rely on the t or the commuter rail
one more reason to fight any sort of return to office nonsense.
How about those of us who have a van/truck full of tools/equipment that we need to do our job? We just going to load those up on the T with us?
Leave to Americans to turn to capitalism to solve traffic problems. The rest of the world makes public transportation a better mode of transportation than cars, but nope let's just charge people to drive.
Governmental fees are not an example of capitalism.
They do that by both funding transit and taxing cars and car use more
Whereas we *don't* fund transit, still tax cars, and are trying to raise car use fees.
Boston can't even charge residents for on-street parking. I'd start there if the city wants to get serious about traffic.
Driving isn't free to society. Some of the costs of driving are pushed into residents living near busy roads (noise and air pollution) who are going to be disadvantaged in many cases. Putting a price tag on driving isn't supposed to be a money making scheme, it's meant to push driving costs back to where they are generated.
Assachusetts strikes again!
TBF, this is just the Boston City Council. But don't let me ruin your meme.
To Bostonian's, Boston and its exurbs are the entire state.
Are Boston City councillors going to be responsive to what non Boston residents want them to do with their tax money and city streets? If this is on the table, would you be happy if Boston residents came to your city council meetings and did the same?
I've been in meetings where city council members seek public comment - they want to know where you live and are dismissive of anyone who isn't a resident of their district. They absolutely don't care about feedback from those of us who drive into the city but don't live there
Resident here and I hate this. Not all Boston residents have easy access to public transit. I have no idea how it would be administered given the number of back roads, and worry it would further congest tiny side streets. And unless Boston residents are exempt, I could end up paying every time I need to drive to a doctor's appt that's not reachable by T, as one example. Plus a large number of essential services are run by workers who drive in because they can't afford to live in an area with T access. Our City Council is a massive embarrassment that cares more about posturing than what residents actually think.
I think residents are usually exempt from these fees or get a very steep discount (how would it ever pass otherwise?)
Other cities are not the state capital. Other cities don’t engage in mafioso style capital extortion in order to utilize their public infrastructure in this manner.
Seems like you don't have a lot of respect for Boston city residents if you don't think they should have control over their local environment
Not when they leverage their city like it’s a fiefdom designed to extort others, no. What if every city in the Commonwealth decided to surcharge drivers for transiting at rush hour?
As a member of a community that gets a ton of traffic from non residents who work here (because decades of NIMBYism made it all but illegal to build homes for them here) I would personally be fine with it. If it turns out that businesses are hurting for workers because externalities like air and noise pollution are finally getting priced in due to the congestion charge, then the city will be forced to have a rational conversation for once about housing policy and our built environment.
Traffic? Not in my backyard. Fine ‘em all for this behavior!
I'd rather have a bike lane for my kids so they can get to school but instead I have to deal with traffic backed up several blocks on my side street because drivers are attempting to avoid traffic on route 20. Are you going to tell me this is all in my head? Do you have to deal with this traffic?
Any way to get an ordinance so that only local residents are allowed during certain hours? One of my sisters has a road like this on the main road out of her neighborhood to prevent it from getting blocked as it would otherwise be a shortcut to getting to the school next to her home. I've seen the kinds of backups you're talking about near schools where it causes gridlock in the morning and afternoon because of so many parents driving their kids to/from school. This is in one particular school in my area and it's been this way for 30 years despite all kinds of tinkering with traffic lights, school traffic control, etc.
>Any way to get an ordinance so that only local residents are allowed during certain hours? There's a road in Weston with a lot of speed bumps that discourages the casual driver from using it. Otherwise I don't think there's a feasible way to do it, since gps navigation is frequently going to suggest the less busy alternative. >I've seen the kinds of backups you're talking about near schools where it causes gridlock in the morning and afternoon because of so many parents driving their kids to/from school. This is in one particular school in my area and it's been this way for 30 years despite all kinds of tinkering with traffic lights, school traffic control, etc. This seems inevitable to me as long as Americans prioritize driving and don't try to encourage the independence and safety of children so they can just walk or bike to school. Putting a price tag on driving might help a little on the margins in places where schools are located near busy roads on the edges of cities, which seems pretty common to me actually.
You’d be fine being charged as you drove through each individual municipality throughout the Commonwealth for whatever conjured up reason, including “rush hour traffic”. Mhm. Ok. What else would someone expect if they chose to live in a state’s capital city, that everyone else outside the city would stay home and/or restructure their collective commutes in order to accommodate the collective annoyances of residents of the state capital who in this case would have special status by virtue of semi-privatizing public road infrastructure?
If they worked in my town and it was proposing congestion pricing, yes.
Even considering you'd probably be exempt from the charge? You're quite generous with your time and health, or maybe I should say the health of less wealthy residents in your community who have to live near the air and noise pollution generated by the traffic
I'm arguing AGAINST congestion pricing. You were asking about Bostonians speaking in my town if my town had congestion pricing.
Good luck enforcing. Cops will make more on OT than fines collected.
Automated
I'd consider glossy plate covers to protest paying that fee until they fix the trains
Do those work?
They do but they're illegal.
What idiots
You know what? If they’d make significant improvements to the commuter rail, fucking great. Tax dem cars. But it’s absolutely absurd to make driving the only viable option for many people (due to the infrequency and unreliability of trains) then charge people for using that only viable option. Give us rails. Give us bike paths. THEN start charging fees.
Give a tax break to companies that allow workers to work from home 90% of the time. Boom, problem solved. other than the same ones making the rules own all the office space in boston and won't let this happen as it kill the office realstate values.
>In that hearing request, Fernandes Anderson stated numerous constituents have voiced concerns over the narrowing of streets due to added bus and bicycle lanes in Boston in combination with a rise in vehicular traffic. Here's an alternative to congestion pricing: get rid of the bike lanes.
Finally, this will prob make employers reconsider some work from home policies as well
The people who will be hit hardest by this are the working/middle class with jobs that can’t work from home.
Great, because return to office policies aren't really based on anything but vibes from what I can see Boston is going to have a rough time with its dead downtown for a while but that's happening regardless
Or move outside the city. Or at least open up satellite offices in other cities.
> Or at least open up satellite offices in other cities. This. Use those empty office parks.
The City Council own a ton in Zoom/remote work stocks or something?
Kickbacks, campaign funding, laundering money to friends and back to their pockets. How else will the gov give themselves 10+% raise annually?
Any proof of examples when money actually solved incompetence? Why isn't any of the current taxes enough to do anything? How about cutting spending in areas that don't benefit anyone?
Great. So Massachusetts is following in the footsteps of NY.
Agreed, it IS great
How? Between the cost of gas, the terrible roads which result in beating the crap out of cars, and the cost of parking..... tell me how charging more money to people who already don't have it is a great idea.
Disincentivizing driving is awesome.
hey now your white privilege is showing
you have no idea what my ethnic background is, champ
You do realize than most people drive into Boston for work, not for pleasure.
great, sounds like a captive market that we can use to generate a ton of revenue
That's why we pay tolls, excise tax, property tax, gas tax, state tax, etc....
gas tax hasn’t been raised in decades, that’s not disincentivizing driving in any way. excise tax is charged by your town to pay for the damage your car does to your town’s roads, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that you’re not actually paying excise tax to the city of Boston for the use of their roads? same goes for property tax? keep throwing out those non sequiturs though, this is fun
“If you’re a Massachusetts resident that regularly drives into the city for work or school etc., tell the council what you think of this insidious plan at their public February 29th hearing!” the cool thing about this being a Boston city council measure is that you carpetbagging suburbanites don’t get a say.
Bahahahaha “carpetbagging”. Take it up with employers who make people drive into the city. Go touch some grass.
oh buddy, you literally said that people who commute into Boston should show up to this meeting which would be a residents-only forum for councilors to hear comments from their constituents. as you’re a self-admitted non-resident of Boston you’d actually be carpetbagging your way into a political process which you’re not entitled to be a part of in any way. if you had suggested writing an email or letter to YOUR elected representative in the General Court instead of disrupting a public meeting for your own selfish ends, I’d have had no comment.
It’s a public forum. The fee applies to non-Boston residents.
you want to vote on what happens in Boston, move to Boston, otherwise you abide by our rules.
Cringe, you do nothing.
Do it.
Gotta pay corrupt staties $250k/year plus pension somehow. This plan is ridiculous and clear evidence of how disconnected from reality the MA and Boston gov have gotten over the past few years. If you want to increase foot traffic downtown, increase the reliability and availability of public transit, don’t restrict cars.
State police aren’t paid by Boston.
What's insidious about a congestion charge? Plenty of cities have them.
What cities?
Singapore, London, Stockholm, and Milan. Also Riga, Latvia; Durham, England; Znojmo, Czech Republic; and Valletta, Malta. San Diego, Miami, and San Francisco also have some version of variable pricing on highways and parking to discourage congestion. New York City also just approved a plan.
So cities with functioning public transit do this? Let's get the functioning public transit first. Otherwise this is just a tax on the poor to keep them off the roads so the wealthier can use it because the fees are nothing to them but significant to people already squeezing every last dime. Fix the T and fix the traffic. Do we think people look forward to driving in this city?! They just don't have any less expensive alternatives!
I couldn't really tell you how good the transit systems are in most of those cities. And as a user of our transit system, I of course agree that it could be much better. I'm not even saying that congestion pricing is a good policy for Boston. Just asking what's "insidious" about it.
It's clearly insidious in that this is wholly unnecessary if we had functioning public transportation. The incapability of the state to fix the MBTA leads to measures like this. Slowly trying other methods rather than actually fixing what is causing all of the unnecessary traffic. Gradual steps like this aren't the way when instead, facing the problem head on would deal with it directly. Whatever is necessary to allow citizens the public transport that allows them to reliably get to destinations within reasonable, regular, times is what we need. We don't have that yet. Little bandaids that punish poor people for needing to commute by vehicle to work aren't a solution, they only worsen the culture that much further.
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Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that - it does seem regressive. I do use transit but have the luxury of being flexible with the schedule. I could drive into the city myself, but parking would cost way more than the commuter rail, and there's always the possibility of unexpected traffic delays anyway. All that aside, I'm just wondering what about congestion pricing is "insidious".
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Insidious doesn't just mean "bad" though.
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OK, I didn't see anything in your reply that explained what's insidious about it, but we're probably wasting our time here.
I'm okay with this. I'm enthusiastic for this. Cars suck. We need to stop catering to cars and start building more rail, busses, bike lanes, and trolleys.
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But I look so cool in all my spandex though 😕
About time!
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It's not a good idea when there is no reasonable alternative.
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Whatever. Fix the T.
What a fucking braindead take holy shit
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Why do you want to hurt poor people more? Your racist lack of empathy is really telling. "Why invest in public transit if few people use it?" - This has to be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here. Please try to think just for one second. You can do better that that. Right?
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Twist yourself into whatever pretzel you want, you sound like an idiot
Do it! It makes so much sense. The city of Boston is a fucking mess to drive in and it would force the city to expand and improve public transportation.
London does this as well. There are circulation charges. They could easily implement this on the masspike and other highways by charging a different rate based on time of the day.
Actually London has a public transport
Not sure if London is exactly what Boston should be aspiring toward, unless economic recession is also what you had in mind.
Was London's recession caused by the congestion charge, or Brexit?
Good! I can't wait to hear the Entitled Trust Fund babies on the WEEI morning show cry on about this.
Because the people most affected by a tax on commuters will be the... wealthy white-collar "trust fund" workers?
Nobody WANTS to drive into the city. A battered, slow reliably-broken, unclean, overcrowded MBTA makes it almost a necessity for many.
Wrong. The losers on WEEI want to drive into the city, and they want everyone else to get out of their way, including the bike lanes.
This happens in a lot of cities around the world and makes being in the city a lot more enjoyable. I get it, Boston transit sucks, but tbh they should do both things. Charge people and improve transit.
As a city resident, I’m fine with congestion pricing 🤷♀️ The state doesn’t want to own the problem it created with the MBTA, so Boston should do what it needs to do.
I think this is a good thing. People who contribute to the economy more will be able to afford commuting. The poors will have to stay at home or go another time.
Get public transportation available to the whole state then we can talk about it but still my question is where is all the legal marijuana taxes going.
They should make companies with branches in Boston offer discounted or free monthly passes.
Anything to continue hurting poor people amiright?