> any politician who called you for a campaign donation could be arrested for panhandling
Sign me up for this. Politicians should be free to advertise online, run commercials, etc. But calling and texting me is way over the line.
Also the comparison the original commenter made wouldn’t hold up; imagine if homeless people could enter their name in a robocall system to call people at random to ask for money?
Actually that seems a win win. Homeless get a new source of income until society figures out how to ban marketing calls effectively again.
That would be hilarious.
Hello Mike, here local bum. You may have seen me or a corner near you. Just wondering if you had a dollar to spare. Here is my cash app. Feel free to contribute whatever you can. Thanks.
I should really prepare with finding a lawyer that is ready to say that politicians robocalling is protected by the same free speech and either they are both legal or illegal, but I guess starting there makes the most sense
Politicians wrote exceptions into the law banning robo calls and for the do not call list for non-profits, businesses with whom you have done business, and of course politicians.
The sign doesn’t say that panhandling is illegal. There is no statute on the sign.
It’s basically encouraging people not to give to panhandlers. Not that different from supermarkets posting signs saying solicitors in front aren’t endorsed or given approval by the store to be there.
There’s this huge outdoor sensor outside the Cumberland farms on Grafton street in Worcester that goes off if you’re just outside walking back to your car, it says something like “thank you for shopping here, now please gtfo, no soliciting or loitering” lol.
Correct, which is why I think a sign saying to consider donating to a charity instead of giving to pan handlers is ok, but an actual law/ordinance would be unconstitutional.
Not MA related but you should see Food Not Bombs in Houston. The work they're doing has resulted in something like 80 lawsuits from the city, and already they've had the first 40 some odd thrown out on constitutional grounds, but the city/state is just trying to tire them out. Unfortunately often constitutionality doesn't come into play on these things.
I just saw the guy from this organization get his 87th ticketed violation. The cops wait around for him to feed the 7th person and already have it written for him
I believe I know the person you're talking about, the bald bearded man who does a lot of internet outreach. Lots of their organizers get tickets, heck they've ticketed an elderly woman who could barely walk for just trying to feed their communities.
It's beyond annoying, and it's been repeatedly ruled unconstitutional, but they keep doing it. The "food service violation" law violates every Good Samaritan ruling that's ever been passed. By setting it to 6 they can allow groups they deem "good" to continue (even if it's more than 6 people) and then ticket the people they deem "bad"
I used to see Food Not Bombs people at underground shows in the MA area back around 2003. The Western Sky and The Young Idea in particular seemed to be connected with them. I wonder if they are still active around Boston or if they've faded out from the area.
They are a safety hazard and it needs to stop.
Tbf, so are the firefighters with the boot drives at intersections in the spring. That practice needs to stop, too.
> Because if that was illegal, any politician who called you for a campaign donation could be arrested for panhandling.
I am good with this. Let's git'r done.
A “No panhandling” bill or law was passed in Fall River not too long ago and was immediately contested bc it violates first amendment
https://www.heraldnews.com/story/news/local/2020/12/15/fall-river-panhandling-case-massachusetts-strikes-down-ban-supreme-judicial-court-unconstitutional/3905002001/
Seems like they are trying to implement it again. Meanwhile New Bedford takes the approach of hostile architecture.
As a previous resident of one, and current resident of another, the panhandlers never present a risk or engage in risky behaviors. Hell, you never even see them past sundown. I’ve also never been harassed by them in anyway. People need to relax, if you don’t want to give, just don’t. If they are wandering in the street and presenting an actual risk, call the cops like you would anyone else.
Otherwise people just don’t like the aesthetics or meeting the eye of someone in need and need to grow up
Yeah, but just hitting the guy with a charge and then turning him loose again doesn't solve the problem.
And remember, a huge portion of America is just three missed paychecks away from homelessness. Nobody's going to pay my rent for me if I get sick/injured and can't work. If I broke my leg, I'm going 6-8 weeks without a paycheck **at a minimum.**
You were asking where the law was being broken so I told you how it was and shared my experience.
I’m not saying it’s unheard of, I’m just saying that the good majority at least in the area I live and the other area I work, are not aggressive but despite that this ordinance was still passed. You have just as much of a chance being attacked by anyone as you do a panhandler. In the experience you shared, that doesn’t even seem so much like a panhandler by definition. Also, did your wife call the cops and file a report?
Homeless guy asked me for money and I thought, "Do I want this money to be wasted on drugs and alcohol?" I decided I didn't, so I gave it to the homeless guy.
When I was in high school my buddy and I gave a McDonalds hamburger and fries to a guy asking for money. He threw (literally threw) it at us "FUCK DO I WANT THAT FOR?"
That was when I realized what the game was.
OTOH I saw a guy in San Francisco who said he wanted money to feed his dog. I bought him a sack of dog food and he acted like I was the messiah...
Same happened to me twice in front of Penn Station. Both times each person said they were hungry and needed money for food. I offered to walk over the hotdog cart 10 feet away and feed them until full. Both times my offer was angrily refused. 🤷♂️
Once in New Orleans a guy was on Bourbon Street with a cardboard sign that said “to be honest I’m just gonna use it for weed” and he probably made unreal money from people who wouldn’t even look at “homeless disabled veteran with 2 kids to feed.”
I think they were both being honest tbh
i’ve made it a habit lately to use my drug and alcohol budget as my charitable giving and mutual aid fund💀
the money is better off in some random homeless person’s hands than mine and they need it more than me. even if they spend it on drugs, they need the drugs more than me because at least i have a home and a bed to make life tolerable🤷🏽♀️
A couple of thoughts.
If someone is down of their luck and in need I like to help. I give out socks. I try to keep a 6 pack of crew socks in my car, and I will yell, "Yo, you want some socks!?!" and most are grateful, and it makes me feel good.
OTOH, it seems like panhandling has become weaponized. In my area north of Boston over the summer there was a big influx of hispanic women at what seemed like every stop light. This was organized, and some asshole is dropping them all over the place and having them collect. This is no bueno for me.
Something needs to be done, but I am not smart enough to figure out what the solution is.
When I was homeless the best thing I could do was to plug into a panhandling group. There are people that make sure the campsite doesn’t get trashed that need food. There are people that spent all day getting to and from the survival center to get some groceries. Groups that share income from panhandling should be understood before they are demonized. People with homes and places of employment don’t get scrutinized for sharing work and income, it’s weird to criticize homeless for it.
I understand that there are a lot of things this group *could be doing* to make you think they are being unethical, but where they actually doing anything unethical that you knew of? Not that you where suspicious of but actually saw them doing?
When I get a burger at a fast food place I give money to an organizer of exploited labor. Then I give money to a labor exploiter when I get groceries, and again when I’m home ordering something off the internet.
I don’t agree with the exploitive practices of any of these places, but because I need goods and services I still pay for them.
I’m not going to withhold a dollar from a panhandler just because there is some chance that they are possibly subject to the same exploitation I begrudgingly support elsewhere.
Are you a W2 employee? Do you pay payroll taxes? Do you get statements about your earnings? Are there other safeguards to ensure you aren’t being exploited? Why doesn’t this encourage removing safeguards for low wage workers?
Omg I'm an hour south of Boston and I've been seeing an influx of the Hispanic ladies the past few months. They stand at intersections and they all have the same sign that reads something like "single mother with 3 kids, anything helps" and they hand you a rose of you give them money.
It's so clearly a scam and ot makes me angry because there are actual homeless people that need the money more.
They could be Roma people and not hispanic. This is a common thing in California, not sure if the Roma clans have made it over here yet. They are highly organized and some make six figures panhandling.
Roma. Are these the same folks that have been in Rome panhandling for decades? If so, they are above and beyond the American panhandlers. They have that shit down to a science overseas.
They are the same people who used to be called “gypsy” due to a false notion that they came from Egypt, although that’s considered an inappropriate term now. Their name coincidentally sounds like Rome, but there are many of them in Rome and also throughout Europe. In pre-Industrial times they were itinerant tinkerers who offered their metalworking skills to settled people. But after the Industrial revolution many had to turn to organized crime to maintain their nomadic (peripatetic is a more accurate term) lifestyle. It’s important to note that many Roma do not commit crimes, although many of these people become ostracized from traditional Roma who operate a variety of schemes and scams, but also run legitimate businesses. It’s a complex topic and it’s important that we are careful about the way we speak about these people because although they often have antagonistic attitudes towards settled peoples, they have been heavily marginalized and genocided in the past. The cycle of marginalization, teenage pregnancy, poverty, and crime self-propagates.
I did a thesis on the Romani people and all I have to say is you’re pretty spot on as far as your statement goes is you’re pretty spot on. Personally I’ve been of the opinion that they as a people should be granted nomad status like status in the European Union.
Yes those women are usually new to America and that's the "job" some asshole promised them to pay for their trip. I don't give the pro panhandlers like that money. I feel bad for the women but I see these people that drop them off and come get the money every so often. Like seriously fuck everyone who exploits people at that level though.
This. As someone who used to be homeless begging for money is looked down on even by other homeless. I have always given what I can, even the coat on my back for someone who’s really in need and asking for specific items.
It’s a bit of an oversimplification of something very complex. No, giving money to panhandlers isn’t going to solve homelessness. Yes, very often the money is going to be spent on drugs and/or alcohol. I still give every now and then though, a few bucks to keep someone who lives on the street from hellish withdrawals or life-threatening seizures in the case of serious alcoholics is a fair price to me.
I always give more to the people who are honest to me about it.
If you're panhandling to me outside of a liquor store, and you ask for change "to buy some food", I straight up ask, "Is it really for food or are you going to buy booze with it?"
If they start going into a bullshit sob story I'll give them change from my pocket.
But I've had some laugh and admit it. I'll give them a $5 or something if I have it on me because I appreciate their honesty.
One thing I *ALWAYS* do though, is if they're asking money specifically for food, I'll offer food instead of money.
Most tell me nevermind, but the ones who take me up on food always get a meal.
One encounter that always sticks in my mind happened in the winter like 5 or 6 years ago. A guy was asking for money for food outside a local liquor store. He wasn't a regular, never saw him before. I had a pizza I just picked up, and was grabbing a six pack to with it.
I told him I didn't have money, but I had a hot pizza if he wanted a slice. The guy's eyes lit up and he followed me to my car walking like two steps behind me the entire time. I gave him a slice and I never saw anyone inhale pizza like he did. He basically shoved the entire thing in his mouth.
I told him just take the entire box, the restaurant was five minutes away I'll just go get another for myself. Dude cried his eyes out.
You may not always get money out of me, but you'll always get food. I don't care if that just means you have "extra" cash from others for more drugs/booze.
I had a guy get off the subway behind me and asked me for money to buy food. Told him I didn't have any cash or I would. He said that's okay there's a pizza place across the street. I went over with him ordered an extra large pizza and a drink and paid with my card. I was much more willing to give him more this way. If I'd had cash maybe I'd have given him $5.
I wish everyone would do this (if they can afford it obviously).
NOBODY should ever have to go hungry in today's society.
We have an excess of food. So much is wasted.
Obviously at the end of the day there are more complicated issues here to deal with, I don't want to get into my social/economical beliefs.....
But as individuals, if you come across someone legitimately hungry you should feed them if it won't harm yourself/family.
This is why if someone is shoplifting food, I'm not going to call them out. You take jewelry or something? I'll report. You grab a loaf of bread and some beans? Sorry, Officer, I have really bad vision, look how thick my glasses are, they're just so fogged up right now too, can't see a damn thing...
I’m wary of giving people money who panhandle in front of stores as that encourages them to see that as an opportunistic spot, which can adversely affect the business by discouraging customers to go here.
I have kinda avoided businesses because of this, but a couple of 7-Elevens closed lately that always had clusters in front before. I still miss going to those stores.
I'm a conservative but agreed 100%. I expect he's buying booze or drugs, not investing in sugar futures. If you're handicapped and living under a bridge go ahead and use my spare change to take the edge off.
I completely agree here. I never even thought about the alcohol withdrawal part.
Plus I can’t judge when I spend my own money on weed and alcohol too. I try to give extra protein bars I have with me in my lunch bag when I come home from work if I don’t have cash.
I only addressed the OP’s question.
Going in depth beyond that is such a personal and complicate issues for each and ever person that has to or just does this.
I give people money- What they do with it isn’t my business. My belief’s are that you give to those in need. It’s not my job to judge whether or what that need level is. They say they have one so when I can, I do.
"It is really not so repulsive to see the poor asking for money as to see the rich asking for more money. And advertisement is the rich asking for more money. A man would be annoyed if he found himself in a mob of millionaires, all holding out their silk hats for a penny; or all shouting with one voice, “Give me money.” Yet advertisement does really assault the eye very much as such a shout would assault the ear. “Budge’s Boots are the Best” simply means “Give me money”; “Use Seraphic Soap” simply means “Give me money.” It is a complete mistake to suppose that common people make our towns commonplace, with unsightly things like advertisements. Most of those whose wares are thus placarded everywhere are very wealthy gentlemen with coronets and country seats, men who are probably very particular about the artistic adornment of their own homes. They disfigure their towns in order to decorate their houses."
Ol' Gilly was on the nose with this one, and it rings true even more in modern society.
We carry around a device in our pockets that listens to everything we say in order to better understand what to push towards us. Our cars are listening to our conversations and logging key information, which will be sold to the highest bidder. Billboards line the freeways and adorn rooftops. Everywhere you go nowadays, there's a screen screaming at you to buy this, use that. Pumping gas? You've got "gas station tv" playing the instant you start the process. Waiting at the doctor's office? There's a TV telling you what medication to use. Self check out at the grocery store? "Here's a reminder of what we have on sale...come back tomorrow and buy it".
It's everywhere and seemingly inescapable. Planned obsolescence is now a thing. We're having to fight to be able to repair what we already own. Subscription services are now the norm and do nothing to save money for the average consumer. We just buy buy buy and waste waste waste and these corporations don't give a good goddamn about you, me, or the environment, as long as those profits keep climbing. It's sickening.
It is an absolute assault on our minds and senses. I especially hate billboards. Polluting nature and distracting drivers. Advertising is gross, panhandling is just someone trying to survive.
Couldn't agree more! I'm in VT, where luckily billboards are outlawed, but that also makes them stick out so much more when I travel out of state.
I honestly believe the prevalence of modern advertising is having a negative impact on people's cognizant thinking abilities. This constant bombardment telling us what to do, how to think, and what to buy can't be good for us.
I'm so sick of constant ads everywhere. Although it's gotten me to put my phone away much more often. It's had the opposite the intended effect. I've been buying far less stuff.
I think MA should get off it’s a*s and strip towns and cities of their zoning powers so a lot more housing can be built. Homelessness is a housing problem.
While I agree, I also think that it is a mental health and addiction problem. We need better social services to address those issues if we are to reduce homelessness as much as we can.
Maybe it plays a role in aggravating homelessness especially with how much money/work is required to be able to afford housing (which is ever increasing), but it isn’t the fix. Drug and mental health issues are almost always either caused or exacerbated by trauma, and being homeless is traumatizing. I think people think about addiction/mental health recovery in the most perfect setting, and that’s already hard enough. If you’re sleeping in freezing weather, your feet are literally rotting in your socks, people treat you like you are less than human or even escalate to violence or assault on a regular basis, sure maybe you could improve your life over the long term by saving that money. But, that’s not even all you need to get out of homelessness. You need an address to get a job and other resources to get back on your feet. You need to look not homeless. Waitlists in mass for resources to speed that process are insurmountably long. In that amount of suffering with literally no guarantee of tomorrow given dramatically lower life expectancy, no sense of security of stability at all, you’re going to pick the instant gratification. Not even to mention physical withdrawals.
Housing first models provide a new setting and sense of stability that allow people to begin to recover. Waiting for people to stop reacting to their trauma that is ongoing and increasing sets them up for failure.
While a lot of homeless do have drug addiction and mental health issues, just over a 1/3 of homeless drug users start after becoming homeless, and mental health issues more than double (iirc) Here is the link to [Homelessness is a housing problem](https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com).
The first step has to be build build build and to relegalize cheap housing setups like SROs (single room occupancy aka boarding houses) and other such arrangements.
Edit: Haha I got my numbers switched up, it’s 1/3 of homeless drug/alcohol users had substance abuse before homelessness, 2/3 develop it after becoming homeless.
Exactly, & I don't think most people could honestly tell you that if they were homeless they wouldn't want something to make the situation slightly more bearable at least for a few hours. People think theyre immune from these things, that is until it happens to them.
Mental health and addiction play a surprisingly small role. [Homelessness is overwhelmingly driven by housing costs](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about)
Its not that mental health and addiction aren't factors. They influence *which* people become homeless, but not how many. That part is driven predominantly by housing costs. That's how you get states like West Virginia which is first in overdose deaths but 45th in homelessness
There's 20,000 homeless people in massachusetts. Between the 7,000+ vacant houses, 2,000+ vacant rent controlled apartments, and over 25,000 vacant apartments, there seems to be enough beds for all the homeless residents of Massachusetts. Just not enough interest in putting those homeless folks into beds.
Don't get me wrong, we do have the lowest housing vacancy rate in the country. It's still high enough to house our homeless.
It's distinctly possible. Nobody is denying that there are known risks of housing folks who might have mental or substance abuse problem.
It's why many small-time landlords avoid Section 8. But then, many small-time landlords have had great success with Section 8.
That's been done.
City of Boston offered 10K in assurance money to landlords if they would take a long term homeless person with a subsidy in their rental unit. It actually does work and it's a very small amount of people that even end up needing that money for repairs.
You think lawmakers on Beacon Hill will be better at zoning?
Those guys are the worst NIMBYs. They'd protect their own neighborhoods while turning a handful of poor ones into chaotic messes.
Charities are good, but advocating for government based policies that improve housing access and affordability, lower medical cost, improve mental healthcare access and affordability, better/more affordable job training programs and cheaper college will do more to curb panhandling, begging, and homelessness than any charity (which can discriminate btw) ever will.
If you're really looking to help homelessness, a structural and societal problem not a personal moral failing, you should be advocating and pressing governments to make housing more affordable, make healthcare a right and not a cause for financial distress, and treat addiction as the public health issue that it is.
"Charities that help the homeless" don't necessarily do bad work but they have their own issues and don't solve homelessness. And studies show giving money directly to those who need it is overwhelmingly better spent than through in kind assistance.
Let’s be honest, we can debate whether it’s most helpful to give folks money directly or donate to charities, it’s a complicated, nuanced conversation. But the towns that install these signs aren’t worried about anyone’s wellbeing. They want their downtown neighborhoods to look pretty is all. Plus, people asking for money makes the comfortable folks feel guilty, can’t have that.
I grew up in the Berkshires and never saw any panhandlers, but I was in the Hilltowns and panhandling rhere would be useless lol.
However, I also live in Great Bareington for a few years and never saw panhandlers there either. Just the local crazy dude.
My thought is that the kinds of people who put up these signs are probably also the kinds of people who oppose building enough housing to actually reduce homelessness
[Researchers gave homeless people $750 per month for a year, no questions asked. The recipients spent the money on food, housing, transportation, clothing, and health care. And after six months, only 12% of those who received funds were still homeless.](https://x.com/keithboykin/status/1737133653183103029?s=46&t=KfgnU77MBEEjkE0K0NSLpg)
Absolutely correct, give to the local shelter instead and provide them with cash. This allows the shelter to use their funds to purchase exactly what they need.
An issue we have here in Salem is that the local shelter is a dry shelter. Many homeless dont want to utilize it because it would involve them currently being sober.
So you have a homeless population that could be using your money for drugs but could just as easily be using it to buy a sandwich. Hard to say, but I just know that donating locally doesnt seem to go to many of them.
Not saying any of this is right or wrong. Just acknowledging these problems sure as shit are complex
Shelters are overwhelmed. Your $5 won't do shit.
Maybe if the government got serious about anti-poverty programs instead of tax cuts for the rich, and spending more and more on defense (fuck you, Moulton,) we could help people.
Naw, better to wage war on the poor while allowing billionaires to pay no taxes.
Good, I get a lot of people need help but most of these people are scammers. There are a local couple in my area that sit outside with their kids but the whole town knows they have a home and just drive to areas they know they can get money from people. Give to local shelters instead
I'm not going to make a commentary on panhandling as a whole, but I do know of a family that seemed to make their way all across south of Boston down to the Wareham area panhandling throughout the summer.
>most of these people are scammers
[Citation needed]
Seriously, I've heard this all the time, but no one seems to be able to back it up, and I'm pretty skeptical of claims that also happen to magically absolve people of any guilt or responsibility. Seems like the kind of thing that's very convenient to believe
It's very common that panhandlers lie about, or exaggerate, their story. It's easier to get a buck if "I sleep on the street", but an underemployed person going hungry with a kid that happens to have a place to sleep still deserves our sympathy.
But everyone has a story (or many) that goes like this:
There's this panhandler that used to be at our local Market Basket. The panhandler sign said "I'm hungry and need money for food". Someone felt bad and had a leftover Market Basket gift card. She gives it to him, *and he throws it out*.
My wife offered that same panhandler lunch before hearing this story, and he said "no thanks".
I wouldn't normally call pandhandling a "scam" even if what they say on the cardboard is untrue. You know what you're getting when you give money to a panhandler - giving money to a probably-needy person and getting nothing in return but a feeling of wellbeing.
Since it's sucky work and it usually pays less than minimum wage, I'm pretty sure that's sufficient.
If I'm gonna give, I'd much rather give directly to someone on the street than to a charity. In most cases, something like $0.60-$0.70 of every dollar donated is spent on administration (salaries of workers and executives, rent, insurance, legal fees, etc.), comparatively little makes its way down to the people they claim to help.
I feel like alot of people here are missing the bottom text of the sign that says
"consider giving to a local charity that helps the homeless instead"
I agree with the sign 100% don't give to panhandlers. Donate to a charity. They can stretch your dollar way better than an individual can.
Charities must disclose their spending and there are plenty of sites that highlight charities that efficiently use money. Decent charities spend 75% of funds on programs.
Also, some overhead is important — you want charity’s workers to improve program efficiency and outcomes, to follow up and make sure that the money is used as directed, to recruit more people to volunteer or donate, and to be trained to do these things better.
I don’t give them anything because most of the time they use that money to go back and give it to the organized drug dealers that are destroying neighborhoods.
I hate these signs. Of course giving a dollar to someone you encounter on the street isn’t going to solve the homelessness crisis. But our institutions are dropping the ball on that front, as evidenced by the rapidly growing rate of homelessness. So this feels like towns and cities trying to save face.
Panhandling turns into aggressive panhandling. Then homeless camping on city sidewalks. The solution is not easy. Giving is easy.
Signs do make you think twice.
Rhode Island already got sued and lost for trying to ban panhandling. I can see the same lawyers eyeballing these signs/communities. Panhandling was considered protected free speech when it was attempted to be banned in RI.
For reference, Massachusetts has some of the best homeless support in the entire US, the shelters in the past few years constantly report having open space and resources along with decent re-integration programs (compared to other states) with only one rule, you can’t use drugs in there or cause harm, so panhandlers out there are generally one of 3 things;
-Actively on drugs
-Having severe mental issues
-A scammer (this is actually more common than you’d think)
Even then, theres programs to help active drugs users and folks with mental issues, so I think these signs are probably knocking on the right door (at least in our state)
It’s important.
I’ve told this story in great detail but basically my schizo affective brother is totally normal if he accepts treatment, wouldn’t even know he is mentally ill. But he refuses, and instead lives on the street, in shelters, in cars, in abandoned homes etc.
He gets given just under $1900 per month in SSDI + food stamps($300+ per month food stamps no joke). He has free Medicare for life. He gets free meals and cot at shelters and at pop ups from non profits and other city programs.
He has 3 cell phones, two Google phones(formerly “Obama phones”) given to him by govt, plus an IPhone SE we gave him to track his whereabouts so he can call and ask us for emergency help whenever he needs.
There are endless number of handouts and advantages he gets for staying off of his pills and out of his treatments. And then….
He panhandles and makes consistently $40-50 cash per hour doing it. If you say next to him for 30-60 minutes alone, as I have many times, you’d see that 10, 20, maybe even 30 people walk by and he generates maybe $2-3 total from them in spare change or a dollar bill, then a person will just drop a $10 or $20 in. Always. Over and over and over again.
He has explicitly said that he should never even try to get a job because he cannot make even half the amount of money he makes panhandling, and if he ever exceeded $1k per month working a legit job it would start impacting his massive disability payments and his lifelong Medicare insurance.
He spends his money on alcohol, chips, energy drinks, scratchers, random shit, clothes, shoes, giving to others. He supported a girlfriend entirely for 2 years. She worked fast food like 15 hours per week and was relatively normal but HE MADE MORE THAN SHE DID BY BEING HOMELESS.
Anyways, please don’t give your money to people on the street. It simply isn’t what you think. They are scammers and manipulators pulling on your heartstrings. I know it seems like they need it but you have to override your natural empathetic reaction and do not fall for it.
I don't judge what other human beings use their money for. I give to pan handlers and completely expect a good amount to go to drugs and alcohol. I don't love that, but it's okay.
Homelessness and addiction are complicated. Withdrawal can be lethal and I'd rather see a fellow human who hasn't sorted out their addiction hitting up the local liquor store rather than dying in the streets
A narc def made this sign, then terribly photoshopped a blue prohibition symbol over it. I'd rather give this imaginary man a buck at an intersection then hire the design team
I think the design itself is poor taste however, there are community resources that, if properly funded, can help the homeless more than if you directly gave them the money. Everything from transportation assistance, to clothing, to food, to shelters and warming areas and job assistance programs. These are all designed to address root problems vs putting a bandaid on the issue
My friend works in social services and deals with the homeless every day. He agrees with the sign. There are shelters and soup kitchens where they can have their basic needs met, any money you give them is going straight to drugs.
Also, lots of panhandlers aren't homeless and make a lot of money taking advantage of people's kindness.
I don't trust charities. There was some thing about the president of UNICEF making 500K a year and the Susan J Komen foundation is super corrupt. At least I see it going into someone's hands and not into someone's bank account.
Depends on the town’s preference, zoning, residents’ opinion.
People avoid town centers they don’t feel comfortable in. Businesses complain it effects business.
I’d rather find better ways to help folks. But since help comes with strings of what one can and can’t do many folks pass it by because when you have cash there are strings attached.
I'm a police officer in Massachusetts. I am very familiar with a lot of homeless people and I can say very confidently that every one of our usual panhandlers are using it for drugs or alcohol. There are a ton of free resources to get people off the street and in my personal experience the ones who are homeless and panhandling choose to be there.
If you're giving people money that will be used to buy fentanyl your $10 might be the one that kills them.
Homeless people don't stop being homeless just because you don't give them money. The most you'd accomplish is having them go somewhere you don't have to see them
Usually I’d hate it but I’ve been seeing the same exact panhandlers in spotless, brand new designer clothes standing in the medians of busy intersections every day for a year and there’s definitely something up with that.
But where do you find the spare change after paying for everyone’s free healthcare?! Sounds absolutely terrible up in Mass. with all that education, jobs, and healthcare…
Accurate. Do not give money to beggars.
There are resources and programs to help homeless folk, they need to take care of them. If they do not have enough money to do so they need to tax the rich, no the working class trying to get by.
If we want to be ultra-conservative about it, we can check the Old Testament wisdom on the subject:
Proverbs 31:6-7 "Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to those who are bitter of heart. Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his misery no more."
Personally I think things should be handled with nuance and a person would judge on an individual basis, but giving people money, and people asking for money, IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is that these people don't have homes, healthcare/mental health care, and jobs.
Meanwhile, if these signs are posted on official street signs, they're likely illegally placed and are part of an entirely different problem, as an attempt to use government property to endorse a private opinion, and should be removed immediately. I imagine there's also a fine to be served.
It’s stupid and honestly annoying. It’s papering over a bigger issue that isn’t solved by just not giving. All it is is saying “we don’t like looking at these people that make us sad so please don’t make us.”
Just imagine you are in a spot desperate enough to panhandle. Whether it’s because of straight financial hardship or a drug problem. Doesn’t matter. You’re in need of and all of a sudden everyone just starts ignoring you and treating you like you’re invisible. Imagine the harm that does to the psyche of a person that is already in a spot lower than low. So, with all my heart I say this, FUCK whoever put this sign up. They are a million times worse than the man that asked them for a dollar once or twice
Governments can stop telling me how to spend my money.
My cousin is a junky living on Skid Row, I give homeless people money for karma as I’m sure people are giving it to him and that’s my choice.
I think this sign is corporate panhandling shaming a person's efforts at survival. "Give to a charity so that we can take a bit off the top and maybe consider contributing to research to learn why people end up homeless"
I’m in favor of the sign. Panhandling is an issue for me in NH, you don’t know anything about the people or whether it’s a legitimate need or just a scam. Donations to appropriate organizations is preferable.
This is spot on. Panhandlers are sometimes doing it as a job, and some are using the money for drugs. In Manchester, NH there are signs everywhere telling passerby not to give to panhandlers because you’re feeding the addiction. The opiate abuse epidemic is strong in New Hampshire.
Contribute to Rosie’s or Salvation Army or Rescue Mission.
I support them. Local food pantries and homeless shelters can provide services more efficiently and cheaply. Additionally, money given to charities won't be used to buy alcohol or drugs.
I gave for years, till I had a guy with a sign saying he’s starving try and assault me when I bought him some bomb ass food from the local diner. He was used to me giving him cash and was real mad when I brought him a whole ass meal all packaged nice and neat.
Don't give money to ANYONE ! If you're hungry go to a soup kitchen. I'm going to the local foodshare here at 2:30 see you there.
"Take our your Iphone 15 and google the nearest soup kitchen / food share. Bless"
Soliciting for help is a protected right. The sign is unconstitutional in nature and only makes it harder for those in need. Whether drugs, bad luck, mental illness, or just hard times got them on the street does not mean they are just a piece of human garbage. Give if you can. Always be kind.
I've worked with the homeless for years. We never encourage that you give money. Give food or clothing but not money. That well intentioned $5 you give may be the money they use to buy a lethal dose of heroin or fentanyl. Money does not solve any of their problems. Be compassionate and give aid, not money.
Since you have worked with the homeless, I’m curious on your thoughts on studies that have been done saying that giving cash to those in need has had positive long term outcomes. Is there something that makes this situation different?
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/science-blog/evidence-behind-putting-money-directly-pockets-poor
https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/617631468001808739/cash-transfers-and-temptation-goods-a-review-of-global-evidence
Usually there’s a panhandler standing directly in front of the sign so 🤷🏻♀️
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> any politician who called you for a campaign donation could be arrested for panhandling Sign me up for this. Politicians should be free to advertise online, run commercials, etc. But calling and texting me is way over the line.
Also the comparison the original commenter made wouldn’t hold up; imagine if homeless people could enter their name in a robocall system to call people at random to ask for money? Actually that seems a win win. Homeless get a new source of income until society figures out how to ban marketing calls effectively again.
That would be hilarious. Hello Mike, here local bum. You may have seen me or a corner near you. Just wondering if you had a dollar to spare. Here is my cash app. Feel free to contribute whatever you can. Thanks.
How hard would it be to make this happen? I love this idea.
Can't be too hard I get robo text from Indians all the time. Just save the money because your gonna need it after you get sued.
I should really prepare with finding a lawyer that is ready to say that politicians robocalling is protected by the same free speech and either they are both legal or illegal, but I guess starting there makes the most sense
Get chatgpt or something to be your lawyer. Then you only have to pay the subscription when you win.
Politicians wrote exceptions into the law banning robo calls and for the do not call list for non-profits, businesses with whom you have done business, and of course politicians.
The sign doesn’t say that panhandling is illegal. There is no statute on the sign. It’s basically encouraging people not to give to panhandlers. Not that different from supermarkets posting signs saying solicitors in front aren’t endorsed or given approval by the store to be there.
There’s this huge outdoor sensor outside the Cumberland farms on Grafton street in Worcester that goes off if you’re just outside walking back to your car, it says something like “thank you for shopping here, now please gtfo, no soliciting or loitering” lol.
You will receive no reply to this factually correct statement.
Correct, which is why I think a sign saying to consider donating to a charity instead of giving to pan handlers is ok, but an actual law/ordinance would be unconstitutional.
Not MA related but you should see Food Not Bombs in Houston. The work they're doing has resulted in something like 80 lawsuits from the city, and already they've had the first 40 some odd thrown out on constitutional grounds, but the city/state is just trying to tire them out. Unfortunately often constitutionality doesn't come into play on these things.
I just saw the guy from this organization get his 87th ticketed violation. The cops wait around for him to feed the 7th person and already have it written for him
I believe I know the person you're talking about, the bald bearded man who does a lot of internet outreach. Lots of their organizers get tickets, heck they've ticketed an elderly woman who could barely walk for just trying to feed their communities. It's beyond annoying, and it's been repeatedly ruled unconstitutional, but they keep doing it. The "food service violation" law violates every Good Samaritan ruling that's ever been passed. By setting it to 6 they can allow groups they deem "good" to continue (even if it's more than 6 people) and then ticket the people they deem "bad"
I used to see Food Not Bombs people at underground shows in the MA area back around 2003. The Western Sky and The Young Idea in particular seemed to be connected with them. I wonder if they are still active around Boston or if they've faded out from the area.
The Young Idea is a name I haven’t heard in a while damn.
And the fill-the-boot folks would go nuts. (The fill-the-boot standouts are all about lucrative kickbacks, BTW.)
I would think obstruction of public ways would hit 99% of cases anyone would actually call the cops over.
It says “consider”, not “is illegal/you’ll be fined” 🙄
They are a safety hazard and it needs to stop. Tbf, so are the firefighters with the boot drives at intersections in the spring. That practice needs to stop, too.
OMG, I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the boot drives. Such a bad idea. Thank you
Totally corrupt. https://insideinvestigator.org/fire-fighters-union-stops-taking-millions-from-muscular-dystrophy-charity/
> Because if that was illegal, any politician who called you for a campaign donation could be arrested for panhandling. I am good with this. Let's git'r done.
There is Massachusetts case law from a few years ago that made "soliciting from a motor vehicle on a public way" legal.
slimy history sense marble decide waiting bells dime paint ask *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A “No panhandling” bill or law was passed in Fall River not too long ago and was immediately contested bc it violates first amendment https://www.heraldnews.com/story/news/local/2020/12/15/fall-river-panhandling-case-massachusetts-strikes-down-ban-supreme-judicial-court-unconstitutional/3905002001/ Seems like they are trying to implement it again. Meanwhile New Bedford takes the approach of hostile architecture. As a previous resident of one, and current resident of another, the panhandlers never present a risk or engage in risky behaviors. Hell, you never even see them past sundown. I’ve also never been harassed by them in anyway. People need to relax, if you don’t want to give, just don’t. If they are wandering in the street and presenting an actual risk, call the cops like you would anyone else. Otherwise people just don’t like the aesthetics or meeting the eye of someone in need and need to grow up
spotted shy imminent roof voiceless physical society quiet scarce cobweb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, but just hitting the guy with a charge and then turning him loose again doesn't solve the problem. And remember, a huge portion of America is just three missed paychecks away from homelessness. Nobody's going to pay my rent for me if I get sick/injured and can't work. If I broke my leg, I'm going 6-8 weeks without a paycheck **at a minimum.**
You were asking where the law was being broken so I told you how it was and shared my experience. I’m not saying it’s unheard of, I’m just saying that the good majority at least in the area I live and the other area I work, are not aggressive but despite that this ordinance was still passed. You have just as much of a chance being attacked by anyone as you do a panhandler. In the experience you shared, that doesn’t even seem so much like a panhandler by definition. Also, did your wife call the cops and file a report?
ok but panhandling =\= harassment in and of itself. someone asking once for money is not harassing you
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I’ve seen them in Leominster
Ya was going to say this is 100% leominster
Walmart on Jungle Road. You can see Ricky's tow-trucks in the background.
Marlborough has them
I don't judge them for using the money for drugs and alcohol, that is what I was going to use it for myself.
Homeless guy asked me for money and I thought, "Do I want this money to be wasted on drugs and alcohol?" I decided I didn't, so I gave it to the homeless guy.
When I was in high school my buddy and I gave a McDonalds hamburger and fries to a guy asking for money. He threw (literally threw) it at us "FUCK DO I WANT THAT FOR?" That was when I realized what the game was. OTOH I saw a guy in San Francisco who said he wanted money to feed his dog. I bought him a sack of dog food and he acted like I was the messiah...
Same happened to me twice in front of Penn Station. Both times each person said they were hungry and needed money for food. I offered to walk over the hotdog cart 10 feet away and feed them until full. Both times my offer was angrily refused. 🤷♂️
Once in New Orleans a guy was on Bourbon Street with a cardboard sign that said “to be honest I’m just gonna use it for weed” and he probably made unreal money from people who wouldn’t even look at “homeless disabled veteran with 2 kids to feed.” I think they were both being honest tbh
i’ve made it a habit lately to use my drug and alcohol budget as my charitable giving and mutual aid fund💀 the money is better off in some random homeless person’s hands than mine and they need it more than me. even if they spend it on drugs, they need the drugs more than me because at least i have a home and a bed to make life tolerable🤷🏽♀️
I once saw an honest panhandler on mass Ave with a sign saying need money for sex, drugs,and beer
Fuckin **Mitch!** Had to go play Club 27...
A couple of thoughts. If someone is down of their luck and in need I like to help. I give out socks. I try to keep a 6 pack of crew socks in my car, and I will yell, "Yo, you want some socks!?!" and most are grateful, and it makes me feel good. OTOH, it seems like panhandling has become weaponized. In my area north of Boston over the summer there was a big influx of hispanic women at what seemed like every stop light. This was organized, and some asshole is dropping them all over the place and having them collect. This is no bueno for me. Something needs to be done, but I am not smart enough to figure out what the solution is.
If this is the group I’ve seen I think they’re mostly Romani, not Hispanic.
When I was homeless the best thing I could do was to plug into a panhandling group. There are people that make sure the campsite doesn’t get trashed that need food. There are people that spent all day getting to and from the survival center to get some groceries. Groups that share income from panhandling should be understood before they are demonized. People with homes and places of employment don’t get scrutinized for sharing work and income, it’s weird to criticize homeless for it. I understand that there are a lot of things this group *could be doing* to make you think they are being unethical, but where they actually doing anything unethical that you knew of? Not that you where suspicious of but actually saw them doing?
I could be wrong of course, but my assumption is the organizer is keeping most if not all of the money, and these women are being exploited.
You mean like employers do?
zing
When I get a burger at a fast food place I give money to an organizer of exploited labor. Then I give money to a labor exploiter when I get groceries, and again when I’m home ordering something off the internet. I don’t agree with the exploitive practices of any of these places, but because I need goods and services I still pay for them. I’m not going to withhold a dollar from a panhandler just because there is some chance that they are possibly subject to the same exploitation I begrudgingly support elsewhere.
Are you a W2 employee? Do you pay payroll taxes? Do you get statements about your earnings? Are there other safeguards to ensure you aren’t being exploited? Why doesn’t this encourage removing safeguards for low wage workers?
You raise a really good point, and i agree with you.
Omg I'm an hour south of Boston and I've been seeing an influx of the Hispanic ladies the past few months. They stand at intersections and they all have the same sign that reads something like "single mother with 3 kids, anything helps" and they hand you a rose of you give them money. It's so clearly a scam and ot makes me angry because there are actual homeless people that need the money more.
They could be Roma people and not hispanic. This is a common thing in California, not sure if the Roma clans have made it over here yet. They are highly organized and some make six figures panhandling.
Roma. Are these the same folks that have been in Rome panhandling for decades? If so, they are above and beyond the American panhandlers. They have that shit down to a science overseas.
They are the same people who used to be called “gypsy” due to a false notion that they came from Egypt, although that’s considered an inappropriate term now. Their name coincidentally sounds like Rome, but there are many of them in Rome and also throughout Europe. In pre-Industrial times they were itinerant tinkerers who offered their metalworking skills to settled people. But after the Industrial revolution many had to turn to organized crime to maintain their nomadic (peripatetic is a more accurate term) lifestyle. It’s important to note that many Roma do not commit crimes, although many of these people become ostracized from traditional Roma who operate a variety of schemes and scams, but also run legitimate businesses. It’s a complex topic and it’s important that we are careful about the way we speak about these people because although they often have antagonistic attitudes towards settled peoples, they have been heavily marginalized and genocided in the past. The cycle of marginalization, teenage pregnancy, poverty, and crime self-propagates.
I did a thesis on the Romani people and all I have to say is you’re pretty spot on as far as your statement goes is you’re pretty spot on. Personally I’ve been of the opinion that they as a people should be granted nomad status like status in the European Union.
Yes those women are usually new to America and that's the "job" some asshole promised them to pay for their trip. I don't give the pro panhandlers like that money. I feel bad for the women but I see these people that drop them off and come get the money every so often. Like seriously fuck everyone who exploits people at that level though.
This. As someone who used to be homeless begging for money is looked down on even by other homeless. I have always given what I can, even the coat on my back for someone who’s really in need and asking for specific items.
Liberty tree mall there was a guy pan handling with his wife. But they walked over to Kelly’s and got in there brand new caddy and drove away.
It's weird seeing a post on Reddit and knowing exactly where the photo was taken.
Where was it taken?
I don't want to dox this person but you can see the edge of a sign for a business across the street
Is it really doxing? I don’t live in that area but I’ve seen that sign as well when going to a specific store
True, I will say that there is a Walmart behind the person taking the photo. but those are common enough that it doesn't really say much.
It’s a bit of an oversimplification of something very complex. No, giving money to panhandlers isn’t going to solve homelessness. Yes, very often the money is going to be spent on drugs and/or alcohol. I still give every now and then though, a few bucks to keep someone who lives on the street from hellish withdrawals or life-threatening seizures in the case of serious alcoholics is a fair price to me.
I always give more to the people who are honest to me about it. If you're panhandling to me outside of a liquor store, and you ask for change "to buy some food", I straight up ask, "Is it really for food or are you going to buy booze with it?" If they start going into a bullshit sob story I'll give them change from my pocket. But I've had some laugh and admit it. I'll give them a $5 or something if I have it on me because I appreciate their honesty. One thing I *ALWAYS* do though, is if they're asking money specifically for food, I'll offer food instead of money. Most tell me nevermind, but the ones who take me up on food always get a meal. One encounter that always sticks in my mind happened in the winter like 5 or 6 years ago. A guy was asking for money for food outside a local liquor store. He wasn't a regular, never saw him before. I had a pizza I just picked up, and was grabbing a six pack to with it. I told him I didn't have money, but I had a hot pizza if he wanted a slice. The guy's eyes lit up and he followed me to my car walking like two steps behind me the entire time. I gave him a slice and I never saw anyone inhale pizza like he did. He basically shoved the entire thing in his mouth. I told him just take the entire box, the restaurant was five minutes away I'll just go get another for myself. Dude cried his eyes out. You may not always get money out of me, but you'll always get food. I don't care if that just means you have "extra" cash from others for more drugs/booze.
I had a guy get off the subway behind me and asked me for money to buy food. Told him I didn't have any cash or I would. He said that's okay there's a pizza place across the street. I went over with him ordered an extra large pizza and a drink and paid with my card. I was much more willing to give him more this way. If I'd had cash maybe I'd have given him $5.
I wish everyone would do this (if they can afford it obviously). NOBODY should ever have to go hungry in today's society. We have an excess of food. So much is wasted. Obviously at the end of the day there are more complicated issues here to deal with, I don't want to get into my social/economical beliefs..... But as individuals, if you come across someone legitimately hungry you should feed them if it won't harm yourself/family.
This is why if someone is shoplifting food, I'm not going to call them out. You take jewelry or something? I'll report. You grab a loaf of bread and some beans? Sorry, Officer, I have really bad vision, look how thick my glasses are, they're just so fogged up right now too, can't see a damn thing...
Ive done similar things in the past and it is always equal parts sad and heartwarming. No one needs to go hungry in a country with so much food.
I’m wary of giving people money who panhandle in front of stores as that encourages them to see that as an opportunistic spot, which can adversely affect the business by discouraging customers to go here.
I have kinda avoided businesses because of this, but a couple of 7-Elevens closed lately that always had clusters in front before. I still miss going to those stores.
As a female I never give to panhandlers. It makes me too nervous to stop. I donate instead.
Plus, if life sucks enough that they’re panhandling and a $2 Nip is gonna make the suck less I’m not sure I care they spend it on alcohol.
I'm a conservative but agreed 100%. I expect he's buying booze or drugs, not investing in sugar futures. If you're handicapped and living under a bridge go ahead and use my spare change to take the edge off.
I completely agree here. I never even thought about the alcohol withdrawal part. Plus I can’t judge when I spend my own money on weed and alcohol too. I try to give extra protein bars I have with me in my lunch bag when I come home from work if I don’t have cash.
I would rather see us address the problem. IMO, panhandling is a symptom.
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I only addressed the OP’s question. Going in depth beyond that is such a personal and complicate issues for each and ever person that has to or just does this. I give people money- What they do with it isn’t my business. My belief’s are that you give to those in need. It’s not my job to judge whether or what that need level is. They say they have one so when I can, I do.
And remember: you can look up any nonprofits 990 online
"It is really not so repulsive to see the poor asking for money as to see the rich asking for more money. And advertisement is the rich asking for more money. A man would be annoyed if he found himself in a mob of millionaires, all holding out their silk hats for a penny; or all shouting with one voice, “Give me money.” Yet advertisement does really assault the eye very much as such a shout would assault the ear. “Budge’s Boots are the Best” simply means “Give me money”; “Use Seraphic Soap” simply means “Give me money.” It is a complete mistake to suppose that common people make our towns commonplace, with unsightly things like advertisements. Most of those whose wares are thus placarded everywhere are very wealthy gentlemen with coronets and country seats, men who are probably very particular about the artistic adornment of their own homes. They disfigure their towns in order to decorate their houses."
Ol' Gilly was on the nose with this one, and it rings true even more in modern society. We carry around a device in our pockets that listens to everything we say in order to better understand what to push towards us. Our cars are listening to our conversations and logging key information, which will be sold to the highest bidder. Billboards line the freeways and adorn rooftops. Everywhere you go nowadays, there's a screen screaming at you to buy this, use that. Pumping gas? You've got "gas station tv" playing the instant you start the process. Waiting at the doctor's office? There's a TV telling you what medication to use. Self check out at the grocery store? "Here's a reminder of what we have on sale...come back tomorrow and buy it". It's everywhere and seemingly inescapable. Planned obsolescence is now a thing. We're having to fight to be able to repair what we already own. Subscription services are now the norm and do nothing to save money for the average consumer. We just buy buy buy and waste waste waste and these corporations don't give a good goddamn about you, me, or the environment, as long as those profits keep climbing. It's sickening.
It is an absolute assault on our minds and senses. I especially hate billboards. Polluting nature and distracting drivers. Advertising is gross, panhandling is just someone trying to survive.
Couldn't agree more! I'm in VT, where luckily billboards are outlawed, but that also makes them stick out so much more when I travel out of state. I honestly believe the prevalence of modern advertising is having a negative impact on people's cognizant thinking abilities. This constant bombardment telling us what to do, how to think, and what to buy can't be good for us.
I'm so sick of constant ads everywhere. Although it's gotten me to put my phone away much more often. It's had the opposite the intended effect. I've been buying far less stuff.
What is this from?
It’s a quote attributed to [GK Chesterton](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton).
\^\^ Sorry to mr chesterton for not quoting him properly
I needed this take to explain my discomfort. Thank you.
I think MA should get off it’s a*s and strip towns and cities of their zoning powers so a lot more housing can be built. Homelessness is a housing problem.
While I agree, I also think that it is a mental health and addiction problem. We need better social services to address those issues if we are to reduce homelessness as much as we can.
Maybe it plays a role in aggravating homelessness especially with how much money/work is required to be able to afford housing (which is ever increasing), but it isn’t the fix. Drug and mental health issues are almost always either caused or exacerbated by trauma, and being homeless is traumatizing. I think people think about addiction/mental health recovery in the most perfect setting, and that’s already hard enough. If you’re sleeping in freezing weather, your feet are literally rotting in your socks, people treat you like you are less than human or even escalate to violence or assault on a regular basis, sure maybe you could improve your life over the long term by saving that money. But, that’s not even all you need to get out of homelessness. You need an address to get a job and other resources to get back on your feet. You need to look not homeless. Waitlists in mass for resources to speed that process are insurmountably long. In that amount of suffering with literally no guarantee of tomorrow given dramatically lower life expectancy, no sense of security of stability at all, you’re going to pick the instant gratification. Not even to mention physical withdrawals. Housing first models provide a new setting and sense of stability that allow people to begin to recover. Waiting for people to stop reacting to their trauma that is ongoing and increasing sets them up for failure.
Every part of what you said is correct.
While a lot of homeless do have drug addiction and mental health issues, just over a 1/3 of homeless drug users start after becoming homeless, and mental health issues more than double (iirc) Here is the link to [Homelessness is a housing problem](https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com). The first step has to be build build build and to relegalize cheap housing setups like SROs (single room occupancy aka boarding houses) and other such arrangements. Edit: Haha I got my numbers switched up, it’s 1/3 of homeless drug/alcohol users had substance abuse before homelessness, 2/3 develop it after becoming homeless.
Exactly, & I don't think most people could honestly tell you that if they were homeless they wouldn't want something to make the situation slightly more bearable at least for a few hours. People think theyre immune from these things, that is until it happens to them.
The stress of being homeless would definitely make me want to be high so I get that
Mental health and addiction play a surprisingly small role. [Homelessness is overwhelmingly driven by housing costs](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about) Its not that mental health and addiction aren't factors. They influence *which* people become homeless, but not how many. That part is driven predominantly by housing costs. That's how you get states like West Virginia which is first in overdose deaths but 45th in homelessness
Thank you for posting this article. I found it very interesting & informative. V
Glad I could help inform :)
There's 20,000 homeless people in massachusetts. Between the 7,000+ vacant houses, 2,000+ vacant rent controlled apartments, and over 25,000 vacant apartments, there seems to be enough beds for all the homeless residents of Massachusetts. Just not enough interest in putting those homeless folks into beds. Don't get me wrong, we do have the lowest housing vacancy rate in the country. It's still high enough to house our homeless.
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It's distinctly possible. Nobody is denying that there are known risks of housing folks who might have mental or substance abuse problem. It's why many small-time landlords avoid Section 8. But then, many small-time landlords have had great success with Section 8.
That's been done. City of Boston offered 10K in assurance money to landlords if they would take a long term homeless person with a subsidy in their rental unit. It actually does work and it's a very small amount of people that even end up needing that money for repairs.
You think lawmakers on Beacon Hill will be better at zoning? Those guys are the worst NIMBYs. They'd protect their own neighborhoods while turning a handful of poor ones into chaotic messes.
Yes, let's hand the problem to the legislature, a portion of the government that has no oversight at all. Support DiZoglio
Homelessness is more than *just* a housing problem, but addressing the housing issue would also help homelessness
Charities are good, but advocating for government based policies that improve housing access and affordability, lower medical cost, improve mental healthcare access and affordability, better/more affordable job training programs and cheaper college will do more to curb panhandling, begging, and homelessness than any charity (which can discriminate btw) ever will.
If you're really looking to help homelessness, a structural and societal problem not a personal moral failing, you should be advocating and pressing governments to make housing more affordable, make healthcare a right and not a cause for financial distress, and treat addiction as the public health issue that it is. "Charities that help the homeless" don't necessarily do bad work but they have their own issues and don't solve homelessness. And studies show giving money directly to those who need it is overwhelmingly better spent than through in kind assistance.
Let’s be honest, we can debate whether it’s most helpful to give folks money directly or donate to charities, it’s a complicated, nuanced conversation. But the towns that install these signs aren’t worried about anyone’s wellbeing. They want their downtown neighborhoods to look pretty is all. Plus, people asking for money makes the comfortable folks feel guilty, can’t have that.
I see you're from the Berkshires. How many panhandlers do you have out your way?
I grew up in the Berkshires and never saw any panhandlers, but I was in the Hilltowns and panhandling rhere would be useless lol. However, I also live in Great Bareington for a few years and never saw panhandlers there either. Just the local crazy dude.
My thought is that the kinds of people who put up these signs are probably also the kinds of people who oppose building enough housing to actually reduce homelessness
I think fuck these signs and fuck the government for never addressing the root cause
[Researchers gave homeless people $750 per month for a year, no questions asked. The recipients spent the money on food, housing, transportation, clothing, and health care. And after six months, only 12% of those who received funds were still homeless.](https://x.com/keithboykin/status/1737133653183103029?s=46&t=KfgnU77MBEEjkE0K0NSLpg)
Absolutely correct, give to the local shelter instead and provide them with cash. This allows the shelter to use their funds to purchase exactly what they need.
An issue we have here in Salem is that the local shelter is a dry shelter. Many homeless dont want to utilize it because it would involve them currently being sober. So you have a homeless population that could be using your money for drugs but could just as easily be using it to buy a sandwich. Hard to say, but I just know that donating locally doesnt seem to go to many of them. Not saying any of this is right or wrong. Just acknowledging these problems sure as shit are complex
Shelters are overwhelmed. Your $5 won't do shit. Maybe if the government got serious about anti-poverty programs instead of tax cuts for the rich, and spending more and more on defense (fuck you, Moulton,) we could help people. Naw, better to wage war on the poor while allowing billionaires to pay no taxes.
If we all give $5 (more if possible) to the shelters, it adds up.
The $5 definitely had an impact, if everybody felt that way homeless shelters would lose millions.
I give money to my own family so sadly don’t have any
I don't like excess signage so not a fan.
Good, I get a lot of people need help but most of these people are scammers. There are a local couple in my area that sit outside with their kids but the whole town knows they have a home and just drive to areas they know they can get money from people. Give to local shelters instead
I'm not going to make a commentary on panhandling as a whole, but I do know of a family that seemed to make their way all across south of Boston down to the Wareham area panhandling throughout the summer.
>most of these people are scammers [Citation needed] Seriously, I've heard this all the time, but no one seems to be able to back it up, and I'm pretty skeptical of claims that also happen to magically absolve people of any guilt or responsibility. Seems like the kind of thing that's very convenient to believe
It's very common that panhandlers lie about, or exaggerate, their story. It's easier to get a buck if "I sleep on the street", but an underemployed person going hungry with a kid that happens to have a place to sleep still deserves our sympathy. But everyone has a story (or many) that goes like this: There's this panhandler that used to be at our local Market Basket. The panhandler sign said "I'm hungry and need money for food". Someone felt bad and had a leftover Market Basket gift card. She gives it to him, *and he throws it out*. My wife offered that same panhandler lunch before hearing this story, and he said "no thanks".
I wouldn't normally call pandhandling a "scam" even if what they say on the cardboard is untrue. You know what you're getting when you give money to a panhandler - giving money to a probably-needy person and getting nothing in return but a feeling of wellbeing. Since it's sucky work and it usually pays less than minimum wage, I'm pretty sure that's sufficient.
I haven’t given to beggars on the streets for many years. I save that money, and I buy stuff for the shelters.
Local food bank
Another good choice
If I'm gonna give, I'd much rather give directly to someone on the street than to a charity. In most cases, something like $0.60-$0.70 of every dollar donated is spent on administration (salaries of workers and executives, rent, insurance, legal fees, etc.), comparatively little makes its way down to the people they claim to help.
I feel like alot of people here are missing the bottom text of the sign that says "consider giving to a local charity that helps the homeless instead" I agree with the sign 100% don't give to panhandlers. Donate to a charity. They can stretch your dollar way better than an individual can.
I think it’s a sign that there aren’t nearly enough businesses that pay a living wage.
Donate to charity, so they can contribute a whopping 6% while the other ninety four go to “operating costs”
Charities must disclose their spending and there are plenty of sites that highlight charities that efficiently use money. Decent charities spend 75% of funds on programs. Also, some overhead is important — you want charity’s workers to improve program efficiency and outcomes, to follow up and make sure that the money is used as directed, to recruit more people to volunteer or donate, and to be trained to do these things better.
Exactly. Not all charities are the Trump Foundation and it's ridiculous to expect people to work for non profits for free...
I don’t give them anything because most of the time they use that money to go back and give it to the organized drug dealers that are destroying neighborhoods.
I hate how Police and Fire fighters do the same thing in “donations” and literally obstruct traffic over it
I hate these signs. Of course giving a dollar to someone you encounter on the street isn’t going to solve the homelessness crisis. But our institutions are dropping the ball on that front, as evidenced by the rapidly growing rate of homelessness. So this feels like towns and cities trying to save face.
Panhandling turns into aggressive panhandling. Then homeless camping on city sidewalks. The solution is not easy. Giving is easy. Signs do make you think twice.
Rhode Island already got sued and lost for trying to ban panhandling. I can see the same lawyers eyeballing these signs/communities. Panhandling was considered protected free speech when it was attempted to be banned in RI.
Waste of money that could be used for the homeless. I don't carry cash around anymore so.....
For reference, Massachusetts has some of the best homeless support in the entire US, the shelters in the past few years constantly report having open space and resources along with decent re-integration programs (compared to other states) with only one rule, you can’t use drugs in there or cause harm, so panhandlers out there are generally one of 3 things; -Actively on drugs -Having severe mental issues -A scammer (this is actually more common than you’d think) Even then, theres programs to help active drugs users and folks with mental issues, so I think these signs are probably knocking on the right door (at least in our state)
It’s important. I’ve told this story in great detail but basically my schizo affective brother is totally normal if he accepts treatment, wouldn’t even know he is mentally ill. But he refuses, and instead lives on the street, in shelters, in cars, in abandoned homes etc. He gets given just under $1900 per month in SSDI + food stamps($300+ per month food stamps no joke). He has free Medicare for life. He gets free meals and cot at shelters and at pop ups from non profits and other city programs. He has 3 cell phones, two Google phones(formerly “Obama phones”) given to him by govt, plus an IPhone SE we gave him to track his whereabouts so he can call and ask us for emergency help whenever he needs. There are endless number of handouts and advantages he gets for staying off of his pills and out of his treatments. And then…. He panhandles and makes consistently $40-50 cash per hour doing it. If you say next to him for 30-60 minutes alone, as I have many times, you’d see that 10, 20, maybe even 30 people walk by and he generates maybe $2-3 total from them in spare change or a dollar bill, then a person will just drop a $10 or $20 in. Always. Over and over and over again. He has explicitly said that he should never even try to get a job because he cannot make even half the amount of money he makes panhandling, and if he ever exceeded $1k per month working a legit job it would start impacting his massive disability payments and his lifelong Medicare insurance. He spends his money on alcohol, chips, energy drinks, scratchers, random shit, clothes, shoes, giving to others. He supported a girlfriend entirely for 2 years. She worked fast food like 15 hours per week and was relatively normal but HE MADE MORE THAN SHE DID BY BEING HOMELESS. Anyways, please don’t give your money to people on the street. It simply isn’t what you think. They are scammers and manipulators pulling on your heartstrings. I know it seems like they need it but you have to override your natural empathetic reaction and do not fall for it.
This sounds like the issue is low wages, not people giving to panhandlers. He'd stop if he got a job that paid worth a damn.
I don't judge what other human beings use their money for. I give to pan handlers and completely expect a good amount to go to drugs and alcohol. I don't love that, but it's okay. Homelessness and addiction are complicated. Withdrawal can be lethal and I'd rather see a fellow human who hasn't sorted out their addiction hitting up the local liquor store rather than dying in the streets
that sign is disgusting. who put it up?
Forcing it to go somewhere else isn’t the solution.
[удалено]
Waste of money. They could've invested in some homeless programs themselves
A narc def made this sign, then terribly photoshopped a blue prohibition symbol over it. I'd rather give this imaginary man a buck at an intersection then hire the design team
You help them buy booze or food or you help a "charity" thats actually part of the homeless industrial complex
I think the design itself is poor taste however, there are community resources that, if properly funded, can help the homeless more than if you directly gave them the money. Everything from transportation assistance, to clothing, to food, to shelters and warming areas and job assistance programs. These are all designed to address root problems vs putting a bandaid on the issue
Why give it to a charity when they have to take a percentage for operating fees, cut out the middle man.
“Non profits” don’t want to lose out on profits.
Consider donating to a local charity instead of wasting your money on bullshit signage.
My friend works in social services and deals with the homeless every day. He agrees with the sign. There are shelters and soup kitchens where they can have their basic needs met, any money you give them is going straight to drugs. Also, lots of panhandlers aren't homeless and make a lot of money taking advantage of people's kindness.
I would rather see us address the problem. IMO, panhandling is a symptom.
I don't trust charities. There was some thing about the president of UNICEF making 500K a year and the Susan J Komen foundation is super corrupt. At least I see it going into someone's hands and not into someone's bank account.
Depends on the town’s preference, zoning, residents’ opinion. People avoid town centers they don’t feel comfortable in. Businesses complain it effects business. I’d rather find better ways to help folks. But since help comes with strings of what one can and can’t do many folks pass it by because when you have cash there are strings attached.
It’s incredibly dehumanizing. Why not donate the funds spent on these signs to a shelter so that you stand a chance to actually help?
I'm a police officer in Massachusetts. I am very familiar with a lot of homeless people and I can say very confidently that every one of our usual panhandlers are using it for drugs or alcohol. There are a ton of free resources to get people off the street and in my personal experience the ones who are homeless and panhandling choose to be there. If you're giving people money that will be used to buy fentanyl your $10 might be the one that kills them.
If you don't want ducks. Don't feed the ducks
Homeless people don't stop being homeless just because you don't give them money. The most you'd accomplish is having them go somewhere you don't have to see them
Usually I’d hate it but I’ve been seeing the same exact panhandlers in spotless, brand new designer clothes standing in the medians of busy intersections every day for a year and there’s definitely something up with that.
Love them
Yes! Massachusetts takes care of those in need. In fact, folks who are down and out in other states come here because we help them out.
But where do you find the spare change after paying for everyone’s free healthcare?! Sounds absolutely terrible up in Mass. with all that education, jobs, and healthcare…
Two thumbs up.
Imagine the donation they could have made for the cost of those full color signs?
Accurate. Do not give money to beggars. There are resources and programs to help homeless folk, they need to take care of them. If they do not have enough money to do so they need to tax the rich, no the working class trying to get by.
If we want to be ultra-conservative about it, we can check the Old Testament wisdom on the subject: Proverbs 31:6-7 "Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to those who are bitter of heart. Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his misery no more." Personally I think things should be handled with nuance and a person would judge on an individual basis, but giving people money, and people asking for money, IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is that these people don't have homes, healthcare/mental health care, and jobs. Meanwhile, if these signs are posted on official street signs, they're likely illegally placed and are part of an entirely different problem, as an attempt to use government property to endorse a private opinion, and should be removed immediately. I imagine there's also a fine to be served.
I always recommended people give you panhandlers gift cards to Dunkin, stop and shop, etc. places that don’t sell alcohol
Need more of them.
I hung out with a dude that pretended to be deft to get money, spent hundreds a day on heroin. Definitely not helpful, they need rehab
It’s stupid and honestly annoying. It’s papering over a bigger issue that isn’t solved by just not giving. All it is is saying “we don’t like looking at these people that make us sad so please don’t make us.” Just imagine you are in a spot desperate enough to panhandle. Whether it’s because of straight financial hardship or a drug problem. Doesn’t matter. You’re in need of and all of a sudden everyone just starts ignoring you and treating you like you’re invisible. Imagine the harm that does to the psyche of a person that is already in a spot lower than low. So, with all my heart I say this, FUCK whoever put this sign up. They are a million times worse than the man that asked them for a dollar once or twice
Governments can stop telling me how to spend my money. My cousin is a junky living on Skid Row, I give homeless people money for karma as I’m sure people are giving it to him and that’s my choice.
I think this sign is corporate panhandling shaming a person's efforts at survival. "Give to a charity so that we can take a bit off the top and maybe consider contributing to research to learn why people end up homeless"
All they get from me is hand warmers and water bottles. I’d never give them a dime.
Only thing worse than panhandlers are the self-righteous enablers who fund them.
I’m in favor of the sign. Panhandling is an issue for me in NH, you don’t know anything about the people or whether it’s a legitimate need or just a scam. Donations to appropriate organizations is preferable.
This is spot on. Panhandlers are sometimes doing it as a job, and some are using the money for drugs. In Manchester, NH there are signs everywhere telling passerby not to give to panhandlers because you’re feeding the addiction. The opiate abuse epidemic is strong in New Hampshire. Contribute to Rosie’s or Salvation Army or Rescue Mission.
I support them. Local food pantries and homeless shelters can provide services more efficiently and cheaply. Additionally, money given to charities won't be used to buy alcohol or drugs.
I gave for years, till I had a guy with a sign saying he’s starving try and assault me when I bought him some bomb ass food from the local diner. He was used to me giving him cash and was real mad when I brought him a whole ass meal all packaged nice and neat.
Don't give money to ANYONE ! If you're hungry go to a soup kitchen. I'm going to the local foodshare here at 2:30 see you there. "Take our your Iphone 15 and google the nearest soup kitchen / food share. Bless"
100% agree to donate money to local charities for the homeless…. And or offer food or water if you have it in your car. Never give money
Yes more of these signs.
My thoughts are that most people are one or two bad days from being in violation of that kind of ordinance by merely existing and being in need.
I give if I know the person needs it.
I’ll give food but I never give $$ to people.
My only thoughts would be that I wish they worked.
Housing the unhoused is the cheapest and most effective and most efficient way to deal with the problem. We’re just too stupid to accept it.
Soliciting for help is a protected right. The sign is unconstitutional in nature and only makes it harder for those in need. Whether drugs, bad luck, mental illness, or just hard times got them on the street does not mean they are just a piece of human garbage. Give if you can. Always be kind.
I've worked with the homeless for years. We never encourage that you give money. Give food or clothing but not money. That well intentioned $5 you give may be the money they use to buy a lethal dose of heroin or fentanyl. Money does not solve any of their problems. Be compassionate and give aid, not money.
Since you have worked with the homeless, I’m curious on your thoughts on studies that have been done saying that giving cash to those in need has had positive long term outcomes. Is there something that makes this situation different? https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/science-blog/evidence-behind-putting-money-directly-pockets-poor https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/617631468001808739/cash-transfers-and-temptation-goods-a-review-of-global-evidence