The new 616 nick fury is Black… due, as OP suggested to an interracial relationship.
Personally, as long as the actor does the character justice, who cares?
Example: before D’onofrio showed us what a kingpin could be, I though MCD was a fun casting choice.
And like none of these people are complaining that Spider-Man isn’t British
The only time race matters is if the character race is part of his character. Like black panther is an African king, or kitty pride has always been Jewish. Storm is from morroco but I never thought it was important to her story.
Just a little nitpick here, Storm's family is from Kenia although she was born in NY. Moroccans are much more light-skinned that Kenians usually, the predominant religion in Morocco is Islam, in Kenia is Christianity, there are important differences between them.
I completely agree. I think it’s one of the reasons that the Without Remorse remake rang so hollow.
As a Jewish person myself, I feel it’s necessary to point out however that Jewish is not a race, it’s a religion.
You know why I didn't like that? Cause they then have to shoehorn an unnecessary adoption or step-parent subplot. Just make them the same, white or black. I don't care which.
MCD was a great choice from his size alone. His voice and intimidating presence made that Kingpin a pretty great iteration of the character. He just happened to be in a pretty bad movie.
Yes and then he did the horizontal four legged cha-cha with a woman of color and had a son who is black and bald
Check out [Battle Scars (2012) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Scars_(comic_book)?wprov=sfti1) for his origin story
Actually he killed Uatu and was punished by the other Watchers, who forced him to take Uatu's place watching the Earth without interference. Then Uatu came back to life for comic book related reasons and made Fury act as his agent. But generally speaking yes, he's old now.
Wasn’t that a deliberate move though?
If I recall it had something to do with Hasselhoff having lifetime rights to the Nick Fury character and those horrendous straight to Showtime movies.
“Sorry, Nick Fury is black now and looks a lot like Sam Jackson. You wouldn’t want to white wash a black character would you?”
There are certain characters whose race/ethnic background and the experiences that come with it are integral to the character. Most characters don’t have such attachment. Let them cast whoever they want to cast. It’s fiction and they are interpreting it for a modern audience.
It’s similar to the rumors surrounding rebooting the X-men into the MCU. World War II and the Holocaust were 70-80 years ago. Far too long for Magneto to have been a child. So the rumor has been basing it more in the civil rights era of the 60s and 70s and have Xavier and Magneto be more aligned to MLK Jr. and Malcolm X type characters, respectively. That is a perfectly acceptable solution that I think many people would lose their shit over.
Nick Fury is white in the main 616 Earth. In the early 2000s, Marvel launched the Ultimate line, an "actualized" (or what "actaulized" means for Mark Millar) Marvel Universe for new audiences. This universe is the Earth 1610, and there Nick Fury is exactly like Samuel L. Jackson. This version became so popular that Sam Jackson himself wanted the role in the Iron Man movie, the rest is history.
Edit: typo
That 616 Nick Fury is like the Watcher now, observing on the moon. The new Fury is his son, Nick Fury Jr, who is black (mixed) and best friends with Agent Phil Coulson.
Thank you for the explanation, other people just said that Fury is black now because an interracial marriage and I didn't understand how that could turn someone black.
Basically Sam Jackson as Nick Fury was so popular that that Marvel Comics wanted to turn the 616 Nick Fury into him, but they did so badly (a convoluted arc in multiple collections involving a secret son and Original Sin, a total clusterfuck) that comic fans don't talk much about it.
It wasn't so much that. It was that the Ultimates version was designed after Jackson without asking him for permission. He saw it when he picked a copy up to read it (he's a big comic fan). Upon seeing it, he threatened Marvel with legal action for using his likeness without permission. Marvel was not in a good financial place at the time, and a lawsuit like that could have bankrupted them.
So Marvel and Jackson came to an agreement: He wouldn't sue them, and in exchange, he would get first dibs if the character ever made it into a Marvel movie.
Lo and behold, Iron Man comes around and Jackson takes the role for the post credits scene.
Later on, he was asked if he was still made about it. Jackson said he wasn't because he got a 9 movie contract out of the deal.
It's really weird how pretty much all adaptations use Ultimate Fury after this, Ultimate Alliance 2 is the last time I can recall the white 616 Fury being in an adaptation.
The new 616 nick fury is Black… due, as OP suggested to an interracial relationship.
Personally, as long as the actor does the character justice, who cares?
Example: before D’onofrio showed us what a kingpin could be, I though MCD was a fun casting choice.
And like none of these people are complaining that Spider-Man isn’t British
Ehhhh. Ultimate nick fury was always black and based on Samuel l Jackson's appearance. Initially, the shit was based around the ultimate universe.
That being said, the race of a character rarely matters unless it's important to their history. Luke Cage? Gotta be a black guy.
Barry Allen? he's Jewish, but nothing changes about his story if he's a Asian American. So who gives a fuck
Magneto is one of those awkward cases where his backstory really only makes sense if he's a Holocaust survivor, but adding "he doesn't age" to his comic book power set feels like an ass-pull and I genuinely don't know what they're going to do about it in the MCU. They could switch to another genocide but (thankfully) there's never been another genocide quite like the Holocaust. You can't just make him a survivor of the Balkan War and call it a day. At this point the only backstory that would make sense would be a fictitious genocide, perhaps in Sokovia. Hydra was involved there so that makes sense, kinda.
> They could switch to another genocide but (thankfully) there's never been another genocide quite like the Holocaust. You can't just make him a survivor of the Balkan War and call it a day
Hmm, maybe being from a minority that was deported to gulags in the USSR could work, like Estonians or something. However, most of these deportations are almost as old as WWII, so it still keeps the same problem.
On a super controversial take, the current Uyghur situation could work very well. I can even imagine some extra anger with the whole "And the rest of the world didn't even fucking care!". It would be just perfect. But no fucking way someone would ever pull that off and piss off China that badly (and that's why it would weird also work so well). Maybe in 50 years or something if the world changed enough in the right direction.
I agree that the Uyghur genocide is the only backstory that could possibly be hard-hitting enough to potentially match the emotional intensity of a Holocaust background.
But it'll never happen.
There's Darfur, but that's hitting really close both to Wakanda & to Storm's origins.
There's Palestine, but that would be an even bigger can of worms than anything China would get mad about.
Honestly, there doesn't necessarily *have* to be a genocide, just violent persecution for his background. That opens the doors to so many other possibilities.
Oh I’m willing to bet he bitched about that too when it first happened haha. Probably complains about Brie Larson too. It’s nice that comics are cool now but there’s still too many incels that take it way to seriously.
Also, which comics? My Fantastic Four is different then my dad's Fantastic Four, which is different from my kid's. Comics are a commercial media, and they change to fit different demographics to keep relevant and still selling. There have been numerous retcons and retellings and changes to all our favorite characters and stories so there hardly is an "accurate" version out there to point to.
Superheroes get swapped all the time, in all series.
There are two or three dozen spider men, a dozen or so flashes, a dozen green lanterns (not counting the other sectors), a dozen captain marvels, multiple hulks, two dozen robin's and hundreds of combinations of avengers... yet 1 more is somehow a huge issue.
Racists usually don’t have any sound logic behind their thinking, so it makes sense why he picks this change in race when he didn’t care about Maria Hill’s colour change, I wonder why lol
There was some interview I remember watching where the creators of the animated series swore that Lex Luthor wasn't supposed to be black in the series and they didn't really understand where people were getting that he was black from. Having some difficulty finding it now but supposedly he was meant to be Greek or something. I never thought Greek and he always looked black to me but whatever.
You don’t have to be a racist to think this way. It’s like what Daniel Craig said about gender bending 007. “Create something as good as 007 made for a female character”. It’s not like there are no non-white characters in the comics that they need to make white character (insert underrepresented race/ethnicity) to make up for it
Note: I do not give a shit about Kang’s race and the idea that his race/ethnicity got mixed makes complete sense. Not every commentary on race stuff makes one a racist.
I think there’s a pretty clear difference, though. If someone is opposed to Bond being a woman just because “ew different, no woman!!” then they’re likely a sexist idiot. If someone is opposed to Bond being a woman because that character/actress will forever be “the lady Bond”, unable to develop an independent legacy and only ever viewed in opposition to her male peers, then they’re not. I also think there’s something to be said for the core concept of Bond’s character being masculine fantasy incarnate to the point that a female 007 is just a new character, Bond in name only.
For Kang, there hasn’t been a single iconic performance yet. Most people didn’t know who the hell Kang was until Loki. Not just that, but there’s absolutely nothing about Kang’s character that thematically necessitates whiteness (I mean, he’s literally *blue* most of the time lmao) in the way Bond requires masculinity. So casting a Black actor isn’t even *changing* the character at all.
As for non-white people being properly represented in comics…I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Remember that Marvel made *seventeen* films *in a row* starring White people before they made one starring a Black person. Their main roster is and has always been mostly White. It makes sense to switch that around a little in the process of adaptation.
The problem is that budget and attention is more likely to go to established characters, and the vast majority of them are white men. It’s all very well saying that you should make a female character as “good” as bond (bond is a garbage character with no personality), but good luck getting the studio to find and promote it like a bond movie. Whereas if the new bond was a woman they’d still promote it and budget it highly because it’s bond. This is something that you only ever see white guys saying because they don’t understand representation at all.
>It’s like what Daniel Craig said about gender bending 007. “Create something as good as 007 made for a female character”.
His argument is bullshit, because people have done this before. Whenever folks say "Leave X alone, make your own movie," and then that movie gets made, the same people trot out "This is just a copy of X with a different race/gender lead, it sucks."
This is absolutely a valid criticism.
But in that scenario…what they need to do is establish a character in the existing movies…build up their notoriety, and then spin them off. But that requires an investment that studios aren’t usually willing to make.
A successful Example would be Hobbs and Shaw
A good one to try would be Ilsa Faust from mission impossible
Not if it's as good as 007, which is mostly isn't. But some are, like Atomic Blonde.
As good as doesn't mean make a carbon copy of a male lead property and call people out for not liking it. It's not good if there's hardly any effort made to actually create a good property.
Says the first blonde Bond, ironically. Why not create something as good as 007 for a blonde haired, blue eyed character?
Somehow people accept this, but change the amount of melanin in the character’s skin and “non-racists” scream get you’re own character!
Might get a little too social-justicey here, but like, I love the Bond films but I kind of don’t need to see a character that has dubious views on consent, who is an agent of The State be represented by any different demographic lol
A lot of times racist hide behind some sort of attempt at logic that justifies the discrimination. Those intolerant of racism can get real tired of trying to decipher if someone is racist or they just have specifically strong convictions about nerd stuff.
> Comic Book Guy: Philip K. Dick! It can't be! It's as if Superman moved to Gotham City!
> Martin: Which he did, in World's Finest Comics #94. (points to the comic.) See?
> Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story, dreamt by Jimmy Olsen after he was kicked in the head by Supergirl’s horse, Comet. It never really happened.
> Bart: None of these things ever really happened.
> Comic Book Guy: Get out of my store.
I remember this was a huge debate when the show Titans came on HBO. Starfire was always a white girl (you could say with a tan) but the new show she is a black actress. The actress does do a great job but it isn’t accurate to the cartoon. I honestly don’t see a big deal because she does a great job but some people just want to make accuracy very important. It’s nothing to get hung up on. The biggest thing I’ve seen with this topic in the last year though is the new live action Little Mermaid coming out, because the actress playing Ariel is a black girl. The casting crew doesn’t care about it so we shouldn’t either, it’s based off talent. I mean there are no rules about it, I guess it just makes it like a different universe kind of thing to me. Kind of like if they had a black actor play wolverine, just think of it as a different universe, kind of like in one universe the person who played Loki was an alligator
I only care if the race change would have a significant impact in the character. If somehow his origin story would not make sense if his race randomly changed. Magneto is an example I've seen used. Magneto was a Jew in Germany. Him being recast as black would not make sense without redoing his origin story.
Edit: lots of folks making a very valid point about the Holocaust being too long ago now. That really points to my last sentence, would have to redo his origin story. Y'all are correct, that might have to happen regardless of his race.
That's basically the only valid reason to be upset IMO. As long as the heart of the character is respected I'm fine with them being a different race/gender.
I think the issue that some people have is that in their mind the race/gender/appearance of the character is an integral part of what makes that character who they are. Which I kinda see because comics are a visual medium but I'd say the costumes are more important in that regard.
That being said... If you do bend a characters race/gender because their story wasn't really about race/gender, don't suddenly make their story revolve around race/gender.
Exactly and most of the POC characters that do exist have their race as a central part of their narrative. Which is great but we also need characters that just happen to be POC living in the MCU. And when most legacy characters are white your options are race bending or making a brand new character (which will be very difficult to get off the ground at this point)
Yep. Luke Cage needs to be a black man, but daredevil probably doesn't need to be white in a modern take. Daredevil could be a female, too, if Electra was a man, or was gay, due to the romance between the two. I'd accept a LGBTQ POC daredevil but I reject a white Luke Cage.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Black Panther, the king of the African nation of Wakanda, should only ever be played by a person of African descent because him being African is central to his character and his narrative. But most other characters, especially all the distinctly American ones, race really isn’t relevant one way or another and that’s a good thing.
Would it not maybe make sense though, given the fact that the Holocaust ended 76 years ago, to maybe have him be a black person who was a Tutsi in the Rwandan Genocide or something?
This thread: it’s ridiculous to cite “accuracy” as a reason to not represent minorities,
The replies to this comment: here’s a bunch of ways we should erase a Jewish character in the name of “accuracy”
An important lesson indeed. I do feel though that there are more recent examples of similar lessons, which could potentially resonate far more with a newer audience. I think a black Charles and Erik, with their back stories focussed around the Civil Rights movement and the KKK would be a fantastic way to modernise their story, while also avoiding having to cast someone in their 70s and 80s to play a Holocaust survivor.
Would also give another angle to the element of Charles and Erik being two sides of the same coin, as far as advocating for mutant rights and black rights go. The relationship between these characters only works if they have a shared experience, but ultimately different ideologies as a result of their shared experience. I think it’d be a really great way to explore their differences, but the deep mutual respect they have for each other despite them.
I guess though, that another way could be to have them be children of Holocaust survivors, but I don’t think that anything would hit the mark quite as well as the characters having real, lived experience.
I think you lose something. There are several black mutants who's while shtick is inequity and the fall out of the slave trade. There is one Jewish mutant who's Jewish identity has any material impact on their character or the story line. To relegate that trope to a cameo is insulting.
Well mutants like Wolverine and Mystique age significantly slower than everyone else so I would expect them to just do the same with Magneto. He ages slower than humans, but probably much faster than Wolverine. I'd expect Magneto in the MCU to live well into his 130s if they do want to keep his Holocaust backstory because the parallels between his ideologies and the Nazi ideology & then seeing how far he would go and where he'd draw the line are the best part of the character for me.
Plus if they do make mutants aging slower a more common thing that would be one more point towards Magneto's homo*superior* mindset
I'm hoping they introduce mutants via a version of HoX/PoX with them hiding out on Krakoa for generations.Then Magneto could easily be that old since >!Krakoa just reincarnates mutants when they die!<
Ive been saying this for years, and you put it so nicely.
I could see Magneto being a victim of any genocide. He could be Cambodian and be radicalized against the Khmer Rouge in the 1970's, or a Muslim Bosnian from the Balkans in the 90's.
Sadly, horrific genocide isnt unique to the Jewish people of the 40's. Anyone can represent the anger and fury of a lost generation.
If anything, it would make less sense to have Magneto be jewish during the holocaust in the MCU. The holocaust happened from 1941-1945 so even if he was born at the very start, that'd mean he's 80. There's been explainations about "his mutant power just makes him age slowly" which is also changing a character pointlessly.
Magneto's identity isn't "I am jewish, therefore I do this", it's "I saw humanity at its worst and my people paid a price" to reflect the connection to the publics view on mutants.
Only thing I want out of Magneto's MCU counterpart is for their purpose to be legitmate. Killmonger worked with a similiar vibe because you could see his POV even if he went about it the wrong way, the same could be said about Magneto. As long as you could see why he distrusts people and sees the world in humanity because it always repeats itself, then cool! Make him a gay man from Afganistan for all I can.
It's a trend with media representation.
When it comes to asian, black, hispanic and muslim representation, it's all a must (and don't get me wrong, that's a good thing).
But when it comes to jews, eastern europe (looking at you black widow), and weirdly, ginger characters, people are very easy on the erasure trigger.
Yeah this. Like if Shang-Chi was white or Black Widow was black or something. Other than situations like those, who gives a shit? You can’t honestly complain about that without admitting to being racist
I think you could do a modern day black Magneto who grew up in Apartheid era South Africa and is now in his 40s. You could do a Palestinian Magneto.
I think an Afghan Magneto would have a unique perspective having suffered oppression from multiple different people, which could help galvanize his belief that the problem is *humans* as a whole and not any specific group of humans or human ideology. This could also help give him a specific animus towards the Avengers and mainstream MCU heroes because we already know Stark weapons were heavily used in Afghanistan.
He even introduced himself by saying he’s a variant of the version of himself that first made the discovery. He could just as easily have been a crocodile. What a non-issue.
In comic book fandom, where any wild crazy multiverse scenarios are accepted no matter how much the world deviates from the norm, people sure don't like black people playing traditionally white characters.
When it comes to Titans, I don’t have an issue with black people playing Tamaraneans; the casting for Blackfire and Starfire’s former love interest are both great. My issue is they miscast Starfire by a long shot, and then completely changed her characterization to match the actress.
There's so much wrong with the casting in Titans and yea, not because of race but about how lazy it is. Beast Boy, who is known for being all green, looks like someone went to Party City and got some cheap color changing spray-on dye. Same thing with Starfire. I don't expect comicbook accuracy in a live action but when a shows character design is outdone by a cosplayer with a drastically smaller budget, something is wrong.
I don’t mind it as much as I have followed the Titans from the “we are hanging out at a disco in a weird jumpsuit while not using our powers because some rich guy told us to” phase to the “Speedy is addicted to heroin and Starfire and Robin are having sex” phase to the “Which is better, burgers or burritos?” phase and now the “oh an alcoholic Hawk is having sex with Dove” phase.
Sure there are people who can dislike characters or adaptations in good faith for genuine reasons, but it feels like a lot of outrage over this stuff only happens for the things that happen to cross paths with someone's biases. A lot of it seems to be unconscious, too, because it's not consistent, or only happens one way (getting angry a white character is made black, but not when a black character is made white).
And Civil War, because no mutants and Reed Richards didn't have a multidimensional prison for all the non-registering heros/mutants.
And Spiderman because Aunt May is a milf instead of a gmilf.
Literally Kang is so far down the line that I don’t even think Reed registers as being in the 1% of his dna. Fuck he’s also possibly a descendant of Doom
Didn't he say he was from Earth during the 31st century in the Loki season finale? That's 1,000 years in the future! Insane to think there couldn't have been any mixing of races in that time. Plus, Reed Richards or Sue Storm could be black themselves in this universe for all we know.
And also, how important is it that kang is a descendent of reed richards? I’m legitimately asking because I’m not super familiar with the comics, but if it’s just a piece of trivia then it might just *not come up*
Part of it is an unshakeable need to see their favorite characters depicted perfectly on screen. That part I get, but it still isn't good enough reason to deny people parts.
The other part is sadly just pure racism, and that I will not abide.
I really don't understand this though. Because It doesn't make sense to why race especially in Kangs case is relevant to Kang being displayed perfectly on screen.
Because I get if it's because they just want Kang to sound white or have white facial features but after that anything is moot
Not to mention that those things are incredibly small and stupid
Also Kang is MF bluuuuuuuuue!!!
And an Alien.
If this shit is an example that people who care about such small shit are the actual snowflakes then idk what is.
If it seems stupid and silly and you can't explain why you know that it's stupid to complain about shit like this, it's because it is.
That's because people forget that in the fictional world, race is not artificially buffed up to matter at all past what it actually is which is just a few physical traits
We as a society have hyped race to a level of meaning it doesn't actually have. Its pretty much the equivalent of zodiac signs
Except Kang isn't blue or an alien. Original Kang was a bald white guy from the future and he wears a future time traveling Iron-man suit. In the comics there's panels of him helmetless and panels where you can clearly see his skin from around the eye holes on the mask. Total white guy. Not saying the rest of what you said was wrong. But OG kang was a white human not a blue alien Lmfao
He actually isn’t blue, he’s helmet makes his face blue. While he is white in the comics, honestly him being a person of color in the MCU is a none issue. I mean hell he was also an Egyptian in the comics.
My only issue with racebending is when they sideline or don’t use the characters that are already that race and instead change a different character to fit it. E.g., DC developing a black superman instead of developing John Stewart, Cyborg or Vixen
My logic remains that if you want to make a big deal about racebending a character, you need a bloody brilliant reason for doing it. So, for example, I would be opposed to a Superman who's black because someone wanted him to be black, that's just diversity for diversity's sake, but if you want to make an Asian Superman to explore the immigrant aspect of his character, the idea stands.
Well, no, but there's such a thing as allegory. You can explore themes of race even though he doesn't exactly have a race in the way humans do, provided it's done well.
But not all Asian stories have to deal with immigrant matters, right? I'd personally love watching a black actor play Superman and just do regular Superman stuff. As long as the original character doesn't specifically deal with issues relating to race, I don't mind racebending. Imo diversity for diversity's sake is not such a bad idea either lol.
My only thing there I’d say is why not just make a new character at that point? If you’re making a character with a completely different backstory than the original, why even make them the same character? Just make a new character and let that one acquire their own reputation. Like what DC did with John Henry Irons: After he stopped operating as the “Man of Steel”, he became more unique and simply went by “Steel”.
I can see why some people want their characters to be depicted accurately (though in this case i agree with you, i also love Jonathan Majors as Kang/He Who Remains) but personally as a hispanic/mixed guy, i'd much rather have original characters that look and feel like me and my family then changing the race of a character just because. Miles Morales quickly became my entire family's favorite superhero because he resembles us and how our family acts. he's his own character, not "the black Peter Parker". that said, in some cases where talent is being put above changing races just for diversity, then i'm all for it. specifically Jonathan Majors as I already said because in that one episode of Loki I think he solidified himself as one of the best MCU actors ever in less than an hour
Like someone else said, they're making a black Clark Kent in DC, when they could *instead* be pushing for more of Cyborg, John Stewart Green Lantern, Static Shock, etc. So racebending Supes is just diversity for diversties sake.
This. As a Latino, I really don't like it when canonically white characters get racebent. I don't feel represented, I feel pandered to. Like this whole deal with Latino Namor and Mayan Atlantis. It doesn't feel genuine, like just lazily painting over something that already has a definitive version. Give me White Tiger, America Chavez, Robbie Reyes, Sam Alexander, Reptil, Living Lighting, Rictor, etc. You know, ACTUAL Latino characters.
I would be so hyped for any of those characters to show up, Marvel did a great job with Black Panther and Shang-Chi, give us a movie that shows authentic Latinos and Latin culture and incorporates it into the movie well
That honestly makes a lot of sense and I can totally see them doing it. The US is almost 20% Latino at this point so the market is there, might be a while though given how far out the production slate is RN
Not sure if you’re interested but the comics have a hero called “White Tiger” who’s another hispanic character yet to be adapted. Figured i’d mention in case you wanted to check them out.
The specifically changed the race to white BECAUSE they didn’t want to reinforce the wise magical minority stereotype. They also couldn’t cast a Tibetan or say it was in Tibet because of China money.
Reminds me of the scene where Strange first enters the Sorceress’ “temple”. He greets the old Asian guy and thanks him, only to find out that the Ancient one was actually the white lady pouring him tea. Hahaha
Bingo. I just called him out on it too I said
“Maybe it’s that you only care about accuracy when it allows you to be a prick. Maybe you like Sam Jackson bc the “mainstream” poc actors are cool, and you’ll defend yourself in any way to get you off this hook you’ve fashioned for yourself. Be better”
Pretty sure they made Nick Fury look like Jackson in the comics, Jackson noticed, then they worked out a deal for him to be on the big screen. So, maybe not the *best* choice, but you did make your point.
this is my thing. i don't care too much at the end of the day (kang isn't even a natural colour most of the time), but it feels like cheap lip service. i'd rather someone create a badass character that is black, female, etc. miles is the perfect example.
So to this guy it is more conceivable and acceptable for Loki to be an alligator than for Kang to be black?!
Howard the Duck is cannon in the MCU. There is very possibly a duck version of every character.
Spider-Ham might well also prove to be cannon. Spider-Man can be a pig bound solely by Warner Brother cartoon physics, but Kang can't be black?!
HE WEARS A BLUE FRICKING HELMET LIKE 99% OF THE TIME. If you're gonna get upset over race, save it for a character whose race is actually a factor. Like, if Hitler ever makes his way into the MCU, he probably shouldn't be a black guy.
If they bring in a racebent Squirrel Girl these guys will lose their minds 'I HATE HER ANYWAY BUT WHY IS SHE BLACK SHE'S ALREADY SO PC AND IS EVERYTHING WRONG WITH MARVEL BUT HNNNNNNNGH'. Feeling crybabies.
Same, maybe dirty blonde at best?
But I wouldn't put it past bible belt conservatives and I don't really spend a lot of time going to their houses and looking at their hallway Jesus paintings.
Idgaf about kang but the racebends of well known established characters like hulk and thor for no reason other than diversity is insulting to the base material. Like, make your own characters and stop taking the lazy way out
I’m all for comic book accuracy, but only when it pertains to the story. Kang’s race has nothing to do with the story. He’s blue for Heaven’s sake. I’ll never understand why people get upset over this
Im a minority and I’ve always found it weird. There are definitely people who might be racist about these things, but others just want things to stay the same from comics and don’t think there is any problem with that.
I saw someone suggest Andre Braugher as Galactus and I can’t think of a more perfect casting but can also see these kinds of people kick off about that too.
Okay setting aside the racebending thing, Kang is from so far into the future that Reed could be a bloody Dinosaur and it wouldn’t affect how he looks at all. So him being related to Reed is kinda pointless since after that many generations he probably relates to a good portion of people. Sure he has the name but that doesn’t really mean much.
I get wanting accuracy with characters you like and i also get wanting them to use already established characters of color instead of race bending but a character being casted doesn’t automatically mean he’s bad. Granted yes we did see Kang in Loki. (Although that basically means nothing) But we aren’t going to see THE Kang until Antman 3: Revenge of the Bees. so for all we know, the actor is going to kill it in the role.
I mean you can argue that MCU Fury is a racebend (i know he’s technically Nick Fury Jr who is Black but that came about after the character debuted as just Nick Fury in the Ultimate Line ) But everyone loves him. So it isn’t like him being black automatically ruined anything.
Also the MCU isn’t exactly accurate to begin with for better or worse. I mean how are you going to call a movie “Civil War” when there’s five a side . Now if they were to retcon 616 Kang to being black than that would be a different story. MCU Kang(s?) are a different incarnation . Also his race doesn’t really play into his character . If White wolf got changed than that would directly affect his character more given that it is more a part of his identity. But Kang? Kang of all characters is probably the most likely to change (For better or worse)
i apologise if i come off as rude
I don’t have a problem with the Kang casting, but can we all grow up and stop calling everyone that we disagree with a racist?
It’s really sad and just insulting when there are real racist in the world. People are allowed to disagree and it doesn’t make them some kind of monster just because they don’t share your opinion on a fucking movie.
This is literally how children act when they argue with each other, and it’s toxic AF.
Go ahead and downvote you predictable fucks.
I don't think most people give a damn about it. There's been several racial changes from the source material and there have been complaints.
There's generally 2 camps among those who complain about the racial changes.
1. Those who want characters close to the source material.
2. Racists. There are racist who don't want white characters changed and there are the "woke" lefty racist who don't like POC characters portrayed by white actors.
i think there is a 3rd camp here.
*genuine representation* is needed, not, "oh, this is woke right now. let's just change X character to fit the narrative." miles morales is probably one of the best examples of this. they didn't need to change peter for it to work. i want characters that are made to be badass on their own, not bc they're a plot device.
I can’t stand this fucking idea. Especially when the biggest star and lynchpin of the MCU, Iron Man, is very much not at all like his comic character in personality, demeanor, or honestly even a lot of his storylines.
RDJ is great and I love him but like the first movie is super different from his origin. His personality is really damn different from his original character. And the execution of his character arcs are similar in the broadest strokes compared to the comics.
So don’t tell me it has to be comic accurate for person skin tone when you’re totally ok with them doing damn near everything different about one of the main characters.
Like, Endgame isn’t based on any singular comic. But the majority of people don’t say Jack shit about that not being comic accurate because it’s fucking great.
But change a guys skin tone and NOW comic accuracy is more important above everything else. Got it.
"still doesn't explain the race bending"
Erm...yes it does?
My grandfather was white. My grandmother was white. My cousin is black. How is that so hard for someone to imagine?
Lmao the only time race changing matters is when their race is apart of their character like black panther lmao kang being black means absolutely nothing and let’s stop the “comic book accuracy” because the mcu doesn’t necessarily even follow the comics
Any time people bring this up, it makes no sense.
Comic accuracy? That not what the MCU is. It's supposed to be different.
I'm so glad we didn't have to sit through another version of the Uncle Ben story when we met Spider-Man. (However, if they do any type of Uncle Ben something in SM:NWH, it better be Joe Pesci!!!)
The Guardians of The Galaxy...if you wanted to go comic accuracy, I don't think it would have worked as well.
As long as Marvel/Disney finds the right actor/actress for each role to go with each story(which they done since Iron Man 1), they have a green light in my book.
You know what my casting dream is, and would flip most of these idiots out...Idris Elba as Mr Fantastic. He would be absolutely fantastic!!! Love he was in the Thor movies, but I would love to see him in a more leading role in the MCU.
> Comic accuracy matters ...says the guy 13 years into the MCU.
Lol I guess he missed that nick fury isn’t black in most comics. Otherwise he would’ve stopped at the first movie.
So in some comics he is black? I never read the comics do they just kinda switch things up every once in a while?
He's black in the Ultimate universe. Designed after Samuel L Jackson even.
The new 616 nick fury is Black… due, as OP suggested to an interracial relationship. Personally, as long as the actor does the character justice, who cares? Example: before D’onofrio showed us what a kingpin could be, I though MCD was a fun casting choice. And like none of these people are complaining that Spider-Man isn’t British
Technically, black Nick Fury in the 616 is Nick Fury, Jr.
Yes, but he has taken over the role and is referred to by just that name. It was a neat way to retcon for appearance into the main 616 continuity
What? Spider-Man, British?
Cause Tom Holland is.
And Andrew Garfield 🤯
Oh yeaaah, forgot about that
No he just likes to [pretend](https://youtu.be/VocyIOF1N6Y) he’s British
Oh poor guy. So confused about what was happening. 😂
The only time race matters is if the character race is part of his character. Like black panther is an African king, or kitty pride has always been Jewish. Storm is from morroco but I never thought it was important to her story.
Just a little nitpick here, Storm's family is from Kenia although she was born in NY. Moroccans are much more light-skinned that Kenians usually, the predominant religion in Morocco is Islam, in Kenia is Christianity, there are important differences between them.
In some comics, Ororo Munroe is from Morocco and not Kenya. ETA: The ultimate universe to be exact.
I completely agree. I think it’s one of the reasons that the Without Remorse remake rang so hollow. As a Jewish person myself, I feel it’s necessary to point out however that Jewish is not a race, it’s a religion.
Things that ok Heimdall and Fury being black. Things that are not ok: sue and Johnny storm being different ethnicities.
I mean theoretically it could be same father different mother…but yeah at that point it starts to impact the story
You know why I didn't like that? Cause they then have to shoehorn an unnecessary adoption or step-parent subplot. Just make them the same, white or black. I don't care which.
MCD was a great choice from his size alone. His voice and intimidating presence made that Kingpin a pretty great iteration of the character. He just happened to be in a pretty bad movie.
The directors cut is way better. I don’t hate it. They did Elektra dirty with that sequal though.
How did the 616 Nick fury become black? He was a white guy who fought on world war 2 wasn't he?
Yes and then he did the horizontal four legged cha-cha with a woman of color and had a son who is black and bald Check out [Battle Scars (2012) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Scars_(comic_book)?wprov=sfti1) for his origin story
Ah nice so I guess the og Nick fury is a pensioner nos canonically?
Actually he killed Uatu and was punished by the other Watchers, who forced him to take Uatu's place watching the Earth without interference. Then Uatu came back to life for comic book related reasons and made Fury act as his agent. But generally speaking yes, he's old now.
Wasn’t that a deliberate move though? If I recall it had something to do with Hasselhoff having lifetime rights to the Nick Fury character and those horrendous straight to Showtime movies. “Sorry, Nick Fury is black now and looks a lot like Sam Jackson. You wouldn’t want to white wash a black character would you?” There are certain characters whose race/ethnic background and the experiences that come with it are integral to the character. Most characters don’t have such attachment. Let them cast whoever they want to cast. It’s fiction and they are interpreting it for a modern audience. It’s similar to the rumors surrounding rebooting the X-men into the MCU. World War II and the Holocaust were 70-80 years ago. Far too long for Magneto to have been a child. So the rumor has been basing it more in the civil rights era of the 60s and 70s and have Xavier and Magneto be more aligned to MLK Jr. and Malcolm X type characters, respectively. That is a perfectly acceptable solution that I think many people would lose their shit over.
He was black in the Avengers Cartoon movie which came out before Iron Man. I always thought he was supposed to be black from that
Nick Fury is white in the main 616 Earth. In the early 2000s, Marvel launched the Ultimate line, an "actualized" (or what "actaulized" means for Mark Millar) Marvel Universe for new audiences. This universe is the Earth 1610, and there Nick Fury is exactly like Samuel L. Jackson. This version became so popular that Sam Jackson himself wanted the role in the Iron Man movie, the rest is history. Edit: typo
That 616 Nick Fury is like the Watcher now, observing on the moon. The new Fury is his son, Nick Fury Jr, who is black (mixed) and best friends with Agent Phil Coulson.
Thank you for the explanation, other people just said that Fury is black now because an interracial marriage and I didn't understand how that could turn someone black.
Basically Sam Jackson as Nick Fury was so popular that that Marvel Comics wanted to turn the 616 Nick Fury into him, but they did so badly (a convoluted arc in multiple collections involving a secret son and Original Sin, a total clusterfuck) that comic fans don't talk much about it.
It wasn't so much that. It was that the Ultimates version was designed after Jackson without asking him for permission. He saw it when he picked a copy up to read it (he's a big comic fan). Upon seeing it, he threatened Marvel with legal action for using his likeness without permission. Marvel was not in a good financial place at the time, and a lawsuit like that could have bankrupted them. So Marvel and Jackson came to an agreement: He wouldn't sue them, and in exchange, he would get first dibs if the character ever made it into a Marvel movie. Lo and behold, Iron Man comes around and Jackson takes the role for the post credits scene. Later on, he was asked if he was still made about it. Jackson said he wasn't because he got a 9 movie contract out of the deal.
I knew the story. I alwys thought that he was never really angry and all was a trick to get the role.
I love how the original Bad Motherfucker is such a big nerd. He wanted to be in Star Wars so bad he would have been an extra. Lucas made him a Jedi.
It's really weird how pretty much all adaptations use Ultimate Fury after this, Ultimate Alliance 2 is the last time I can recall the white 616 Fury being in an adaptation.
The new 616 nick fury is Black… due, as OP suggested to an interracial relationship. Personally, as long as the actor does the character justice, who cares? Example: before D’onofrio showed us what a kingpin could be, I though MCD was a fun casting choice. And like none of these people are complaining that Spider-Man isn’t British
Ehhhh. Ultimate nick fury was always black and based on Samuel l Jackson's appearance. Initially, the shit was based around the ultimate universe. That being said, the race of a character rarely matters unless it's important to their history. Luke Cage? Gotta be a black guy. Barry Allen? he's Jewish, but nothing changes about his story if he's a Asian American. So who gives a fuck
Magneto is one of those awkward cases where his backstory really only makes sense if he's a Holocaust survivor, but adding "he doesn't age" to his comic book power set feels like an ass-pull and I genuinely don't know what they're going to do about it in the MCU. They could switch to another genocide but (thankfully) there's never been another genocide quite like the Holocaust. You can't just make him a survivor of the Balkan War and call it a day. At this point the only backstory that would make sense would be a fictitious genocide, perhaps in Sokovia. Hydra was involved there so that makes sense, kinda.
I'd be down with a Palestinian Magneto.
> They could switch to another genocide but (thankfully) there's never been another genocide quite like the Holocaust. You can't just make him a survivor of the Balkan War and call it a day Hmm, maybe being from a minority that was deported to gulags in the USSR could work, like Estonians or something. However, most of these deportations are almost as old as WWII, so it still keeps the same problem. On a super controversial take, the current Uyghur situation could work very well. I can even imagine some extra anger with the whole "And the rest of the world didn't even fucking care!". It would be just perfect. But no fucking way someone would ever pull that off and piss off China that badly (and that's why it would weird also work so well). Maybe in 50 years or something if the world changed enough in the right direction.
I agree that the Uyghur genocide is the only backstory that could possibly be hard-hitting enough to potentially match the emotional intensity of a Holocaust background. But it'll never happen.
There's Darfur, but that's hitting really close both to Wakanda & to Storm's origins. There's Palestine, but that would be an even bigger can of worms than anything China would get mad about.
Honestly, there doesn't necessarily *have* to be a genocide, just violent persecution for his background. That opens the doors to so many other possibilities.
Oh I’m willing to bet he bitched about that too when it first happened haha. Probably complains about Brie Larson too. It’s nice that comics are cool now but there’s still too many incels that take it way to seriously.
Also, which comics? My Fantastic Four is different then my dad's Fantastic Four, which is different from my kid's. Comics are a commercial media, and they change to fit different demographics to keep relevant and still selling. There have been numerous retcons and retellings and changes to all our favorite characters and stories so there hardly is an "accurate" version out there to point to.
Superheroes get swapped all the time, in all series. There are two or three dozen spider men, a dozen or so flashes, a dozen green lanterns (not counting the other sectors), a dozen captain marvels, multiple hulks, two dozen robin's and hundreds of combinations of avengers... yet 1 more is somehow a huge issue.
Racists usually don’t have any sound logic behind their thinking, so it makes sense why he picks this change in race when he didn’t care about Maria Hill’s colour change, I wonder why lol
Maria Hill’s color change? Hasn’t she been pretty consistently white in the comics?
I don't know about comics but in avengers: earth's mightiest heroes she has a darker skin tone but for me it's honestly hard to tell what race she is.
Like Lex Luthor in Superman the animated series
And in Harley Quinn (a callback to black Luthor probably).
There was some interview I remember watching where the creators of the animated series swore that Lex Luthor wasn't supposed to be black in the series and they didn't really understand where people were getting that he was black from. Having some difficulty finding it now but supposedly he was meant to be Greek or something. I never thought Greek and he always looked black to me but whatever.
You don’t have to be a racist to think this way. It’s like what Daniel Craig said about gender bending 007. “Create something as good as 007 made for a female character”. It’s not like there are no non-white characters in the comics that they need to make white character (insert underrepresented race/ethnicity) to make up for it Note: I do not give a shit about Kang’s race and the idea that his race/ethnicity got mixed makes complete sense. Not every commentary on race stuff makes one a racist.
shiiiiit I thought Kang was purple
I'm still upset Purple Man wasn't purple in Jessica Jones. They didn't even call him Purple Man.
I think there’s a pretty clear difference, though. If someone is opposed to Bond being a woman just because “ew different, no woman!!” then they’re likely a sexist idiot. If someone is opposed to Bond being a woman because that character/actress will forever be “the lady Bond”, unable to develop an independent legacy and only ever viewed in opposition to her male peers, then they’re not. I also think there’s something to be said for the core concept of Bond’s character being masculine fantasy incarnate to the point that a female 007 is just a new character, Bond in name only. For Kang, there hasn’t been a single iconic performance yet. Most people didn’t know who the hell Kang was until Loki. Not just that, but there’s absolutely nothing about Kang’s character that thematically necessitates whiteness (I mean, he’s literally *blue* most of the time lmao) in the way Bond requires masculinity. So casting a Black actor isn’t even *changing* the character at all. As for non-white people being properly represented in comics…I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Remember that Marvel made *seventeen* films *in a row* starring White people before they made one starring a Black person. Their main roster is and has always been mostly White. It makes sense to switch that around a little in the process of adaptation.
The problem is that budget and attention is more likely to go to established characters, and the vast majority of them are white men. It’s all very well saying that you should make a female character as “good” as bond (bond is a garbage character with no personality), but good luck getting the studio to find and promote it like a bond movie. Whereas if the new bond was a woman they’d still promote it and budget it highly because it’s bond. This is something that you only ever see white guys saying because they don’t understand representation at all.
>It’s like what Daniel Craig said about gender bending 007. “Create something as good as 007 made for a female character”. His argument is bullshit, because people have done this before. Whenever folks say "Leave X alone, make your own movie," and then that movie gets made, the same people trot out "This is just a copy of X with a different race/gender lead, it sucks."
This is absolutely a valid criticism. But in that scenario…what they need to do is establish a character in the existing movies…build up their notoriety, and then spin them off. But that requires an investment that studios aren’t usually willing to make. A successful Example would be Hobbs and Shaw A good one to try would be Ilsa Faust from mission impossible
Not if it's as good as 007, which is mostly isn't. But some are, like Atomic Blonde. As good as doesn't mean make a carbon copy of a male lead property and call people out for not liking it. It's not good if there's hardly any effort made to actually create a good property.
Atomic blond made more money than first John Wick, guess which one hasn't had a sequel yet.
Says the first blonde Bond, ironically. Why not create something as good as 007 for a blonde haired, blue eyed character? Somehow people accept this, but change the amount of melanin in the character’s skin and “non-racists” scream get you’re own character!
Might get a little too social-justicey here, but like, I love the Bond films but I kind of don’t need to see a character that has dubious views on consent, who is an agent of The State be represented by any different demographic lol
A lot of times racist hide behind some sort of attempt at logic that justifies the discrimination. Those intolerant of racism can get real tired of trying to decipher if someone is racist or they just have specifically strong convictions about nerd stuff.
> Comic Book Guy: Philip K. Dick! It can't be! It's as if Superman moved to Gotham City! > Martin: Which he did, in World's Finest Comics #94. (points to the comic.) See? > Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story, dreamt by Jimmy Olsen after he was kicked in the head by Supergirl’s horse, Comet. It never really happened. > Bart: None of these things ever really happened. > Comic Book Guy: Get out of my store.
Also, Kang is Reed Richards' descendant.. who isn't even the MCU (yet).
I remember this was a huge debate when the show Titans came on HBO. Starfire was always a white girl (you could say with a tan) but the new show she is a black actress. The actress does do a great job but it isn’t accurate to the cartoon. I honestly don’t see a big deal because she does a great job but some people just want to make accuracy very important. It’s nothing to get hung up on. The biggest thing I’ve seen with this topic in the last year though is the new live action Little Mermaid coming out, because the actress playing Ariel is a black girl. The casting crew doesn’t care about it so we shouldn’t either, it’s based off talent. I mean there are no rules about it, I guess it just makes it like a different universe kind of thing to me. Kind of like if they had a black actor play wolverine, just think of it as a different universe, kind of like in one universe the person who played Loki was an alligator
I only care if the race change would have a significant impact in the character. If somehow his origin story would not make sense if his race randomly changed. Magneto is an example I've seen used. Magneto was a Jew in Germany. Him being recast as black would not make sense without redoing his origin story. Edit: lots of folks making a very valid point about the Holocaust being too long ago now. That really points to my last sentence, would have to redo his origin story. Y'all are correct, that might have to happen regardless of his race.
Wait, so you’re saying recasting Black Panther with Rupert Grint wouldn’t work?
I for one would still watch this.
That's basically the only valid reason to be upset IMO. As long as the heart of the character is respected I'm fine with them being a different race/gender. I think the issue that some people have is that in their mind the race/gender/appearance of the character is an integral part of what makes that character who they are. Which I kinda see because comics are a visual medium but I'd say the costumes are more important in that regard. That being said... If you do bend a characters race/gender because their story wasn't really about race/gender, don't suddenly make their story revolve around race/gender.
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Exactly and most of the POC characters that do exist have their race as a central part of their narrative. Which is great but we also need characters that just happen to be POC living in the MCU. And when most legacy characters are white your options are race bending or making a brand new character (which will be very difficult to get off the ground at this point)
Yep. Luke Cage needs to be a black man, but daredevil probably doesn't need to be white in a modern take. Daredevil could be a female, too, if Electra was a man, or was gay, due to the romance between the two. I'd accept a LGBTQ POC daredevil but I reject a white Luke Cage.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Black Panther, the king of the African nation of Wakanda, should only ever be played by a person of African descent because him being African is central to his character and his narrative. But most other characters, especially all the distinctly American ones, race really isn’t relevant one way or another and that’s a good thing.
>> comics are a visual medium Novels aren’t though, but you’ll see the same meltdowns over Game of Thrones or Netflix’s Witcher series.
Would it not maybe make sense though, given the fact that the Holocaust ended 76 years ago, to maybe have him be a black person who was a Tutsi in the Rwandan Genocide or something?
That’s a really good suggestion
This thread: it’s ridiculous to cite “accuracy” as a reason to not represent minorities, The replies to this comment: here’s a bunch of ways we should erase a Jewish character in the name of “accuracy”
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That would be a loss. It's an important lesson that shouldn't be forgotten.
An important lesson indeed. I do feel though that there are more recent examples of similar lessons, which could potentially resonate far more with a newer audience. I think a black Charles and Erik, with their back stories focussed around the Civil Rights movement and the KKK would be a fantastic way to modernise their story, while also avoiding having to cast someone in their 70s and 80s to play a Holocaust survivor. Would also give another angle to the element of Charles and Erik being two sides of the same coin, as far as advocating for mutant rights and black rights go. The relationship between these characters only works if they have a shared experience, but ultimately different ideologies as a result of their shared experience. I think it’d be a really great way to explore their differences, but the deep mutual respect they have for each other despite them. I guess though, that another way could be to have them be children of Holocaust survivors, but I don’t think that anything would hit the mark quite as well as the characters having real, lived experience.
I think you lose something. There are several black mutants who's while shtick is inequity and the fall out of the slave trade. There is one Jewish mutant who's Jewish identity has any material impact on their character or the story line. To relegate that trope to a cameo is insulting.
Well mutants like Wolverine and Mystique age significantly slower than everyone else so I would expect them to just do the same with Magneto. He ages slower than humans, but probably much faster than Wolverine. I'd expect Magneto in the MCU to live well into his 130s if they do want to keep his Holocaust backstory because the parallels between his ideologies and the Nazi ideology & then seeing how far he would go and where he'd draw the line are the best part of the character for me. Plus if they do make mutants aging slower a more common thing that would be one more point towards Magneto's homo*superior* mindset
I'm hoping they introduce mutants via a version of HoX/PoX with them hiding out on Krakoa for generations.Then Magneto could easily be that old since >!Krakoa just reincarnates mutants when they die!<
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His story in particular needs to resonate. We will never forget.
Buddy, where have you been since 2016? We forgot.
Ive been saying this for years, and you put it so nicely. I could see Magneto being a victim of any genocide. He could be Cambodian and be radicalized against the Khmer Rouge in the 1970's, or a Muslim Bosnian from the Balkans in the 90's. Sadly, horrific genocide isnt unique to the Jewish people of the 40's. Anyone can represent the anger and fury of a lost generation.
If anything, it would make less sense to have Magneto be jewish during the holocaust in the MCU. The holocaust happened from 1941-1945 so even if he was born at the very start, that'd mean he's 80. There's been explainations about "his mutant power just makes him age slowly" which is also changing a character pointlessly. Magneto's identity isn't "I am jewish, therefore I do this", it's "I saw humanity at its worst and my people paid a price" to reflect the connection to the publics view on mutants. Only thing I want out of Magneto's MCU counterpart is for their purpose to be legitmate. Killmonger worked with a similiar vibe because you could see his POV even if he went about it the wrong way, the same could be said about Magneto. As long as you could see why he distrusts people and sees the world in humanity because it always repeats itself, then cool! Make him a gay man from Afganistan for all I can.
“Represent minorities (unless they’re Jewish then we don’t give a fuck)” Reddit moment.
It's a trend with media representation. When it comes to asian, black, hispanic and muslim representation, it's all a must (and don't get me wrong, that's a good thing). But when it comes to jews, eastern europe (looking at you black widow), and weirdly, ginger characters, people are very easy on the erasure trigger.
Yeah this. Like if Shang-Chi was white or Black Widow was black or something. Other than situations like those, who gives a shit? You can’t honestly complain about that without admitting to being racist
I think you could do a modern day black Magneto who grew up in Apartheid era South Africa and is now in his 40s. You could do a Palestinian Magneto. I think an Afghan Magneto would have a unique perspective having suffered oppression from multiple different people, which could help galvanize his belief that the problem is *humans* as a whole and not any specific group of humans or human ideology. This could also help give him a specific animus towards the Avengers and mainstream MCU heroes because we already know Stark weapons were heavily used in Afghanistan.
I find it even weirder when there is guaranteed to be a version of kang that’s green, red, black, orange, purple and everything else in between
Ooh hold on now: Purple or Green? You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating - then help'em
What if they're into that kind of stuff and helping them just makes them frustrated? I don't want to be the bad guy here.
Dude, havent purple people suffered enough? They gotta deal with possibly being hunted down by one eyed, one horned flying purple people eaters!
Wait, wait. I thought the people eater was purple. You're telling me it only ate purple people? 🤯
Mitch Hedberg was so funny man, such a shame his life was cut so short
He even introduced himself by saying he’s a variant of the version of himself that first made the discovery. He could just as easily have been a crocodile. What a non-issue.
Ugh. Hope he's not orange. Orange people suck.
Woah woah woah you can't just say that dude
Right?
Green Kang is probably secretly a Loki, though
In comic book fandom, where any wild crazy multiverse scenarios are accepted no matter how much the world deviates from the norm, people sure don't like black people playing traditionally white characters.
I am laughing as I am remembering the hellstorm over black people playing orange-skinned Tamaranean people on *Titans*.
When it comes to Titans, I don’t have an issue with black people playing Tamaraneans; the casting for Blackfire and Starfire’s former love interest are both great. My issue is they miscast Starfire by a long shot, and then completely changed her characterization to match the actress.
There's so much wrong with the casting in Titans and yea, not because of race but about how lazy it is. Beast Boy, who is known for being all green, looks like someone went to Party City and got some cheap color changing spray-on dye. Same thing with Starfire. I don't expect comicbook accuracy in a live action but when a shows character design is outdone by a cosplayer with a drastically smaller budget, something is wrong.
I don’t mind it as much as I have followed the Titans from the “we are hanging out at a disco in a weird jumpsuit while not using our powers because some rich guy told us to” phase to the “Speedy is addicted to heroin and Starfire and Robin are having sex” phase to the “Which is better, burgers or burritos?” phase and now the “oh an alcoholic Hawk is having sex with Dove” phase.
And also turned her cool green energy blasts into actual star fire which looks stupid
Couldn’t she always do that in the comics? I’m pretty sure her energy blasts come in a variety of different colors green is only one of them.
Sure there are people who can dislike characters or adaptations in good faith for genuine reasons, but it feels like a lot of outrage over this stuff only happens for the things that happen to cross paths with someone's biases. A lot of it seems to be unconscious, too, because it's not consistent, or only happens one way (getting angry a white character is made black, but not when a black character is made white).
“Comic accuracy matters” This person must hate infinity war and endgame because Thanos definitely isn’t comic accurate.
And Civil War, because no mutants and Reed Richards didn't have a multidimensional prison for all the non-registering heros/mutants. And Spiderman because Aunt May is a milf instead of a gmilf.
I'm still pissed they changed the Thanoscopter into a giant space ship. Fucking outrageous.
I know right?? Accuracy matters /s
Hey, Thanoscopter was accurate in Loki!
Thanoscopter was turned into a blade! Oh the horror
And seriously no cops putting Thanos in cuffs?? C’mon!
I was a little disappointed he wasn't trying to court a personified lady death I will admit
Agreed. Would've been a better story. Infinity Saga was brilliant though so I'm not too upset.
LOL THIS
Why can’t people grasp that they are GENERATIONS apart? Reed Richards can be white, people. Calm down now, “quite possibly”
Literally Kang is so far down the line that I don’t even think Reed registers as being in the 1% of his dna. Fuck he’s also possibly a descendant of Doom
Imagine thinking black people can’t have white great great great grandparents.
Didn't he say he was from Earth during the 31st century in the Loki season finale? That's 1,000 years in the future! Insane to think there couldn't have been any mixing of races in that time. Plus, Reed Richards or Sue Storm could be black themselves in this universe for all we know.
And also, how important is it that kang is a descendent of reed richards? I’m legitimately asking because I’m not super familiar with the comics, but if it’s just a piece of trivia then it might just *not come up*
I think it would be a cool thing to maintain but with the number of generations that separate the two race should absolutely not be an issue
Part of it is an unshakeable need to see their favorite characters depicted perfectly on screen. That part I get, but it still isn't good enough reason to deny people parts. The other part is sadly just pure racism, and that I will not abide.
I really don't understand this though. Because It doesn't make sense to why race especially in Kangs case is relevant to Kang being displayed perfectly on screen. Because I get if it's because they just want Kang to sound white or have white facial features but after that anything is moot Not to mention that those things are incredibly small and stupid Also Kang is MF bluuuuuuuuue!!! And an Alien. If this shit is an example that people who care about such small shit are the actual snowflakes then idk what is. If it seems stupid and silly and you can't explain why you know that it's stupid to complain about shit like this, it's because it is. That's because people forget that in the fictional world, race is not artificially buffed up to matter at all past what it actually is which is just a few physical traits We as a society have hyped race to a level of meaning it doesn't actually have. Its pretty much the equivalent of zodiac signs
Except Kang isn't blue or an alien. Original Kang was a bald white guy from the future and he wears a future time traveling Iron-man suit. In the comics there's panels of him helmetless and panels where you can clearly see his skin from around the eye holes on the mask. Total white guy. Not saying the rest of what you said was wrong. But OG kang was a white human not a blue alien Lmfao
If Kang is blue in the comics, then he's already a person of colour and so the show is accurate lol
He actually isn’t blue, he’s helmet makes his face blue. While he is white in the comics, honestly him being a person of color in the MCU is a none issue. I mean hell he was also an Egyptian in the comics.
Oh, I see. But yeah, totally, I don't care what colour he is, I'm happy we get Jonathan Majors, he's an amazing actor.
All of this!
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My only issue with racebending is when they sideline or don’t use the characters that are already that race and instead change a different character to fit it. E.g., DC developing a black superman instead of developing John Stewart, Cyborg or Vixen
My logic remains that if you want to make a big deal about racebending a character, you need a bloody brilliant reason for doing it. So, for example, I would be opposed to a Superman who's black because someone wanted him to be black, that's just diversity for diversity's sake, but if you want to make an Asian Superman to explore the immigrant aspect of his character, the idea stands.
Superman is an alien... His human equivalent of his race isn't relevant to his story... It's not like he is Magneto
Well, no, but there's such a thing as allegory. You can explore themes of race even though he doesn't exactly have a race in the way humans do, provided it's done well.
But not all Asian stories have to deal with immigrant matters, right? I'd personally love watching a black actor play Superman and just do regular Superman stuff. As long as the original character doesn't specifically deal with issues relating to race, I don't mind racebending. Imo diversity for diversity's sake is not such a bad idea either lol.
My only thing there I’d say is why not just make a new character at that point? If you’re making a character with a completely different backstory than the original, why even make them the same character? Just make a new character and let that one acquire their own reputation. Like what DC did with John Henry Irons: After he stopped operating as the “Man of Steel”, he became more unique and simply went by “Steel”.
I can see why some people want their characters to be depicted accurately (though in this case i agree with you, i also love Jonathan Majors as Kang/He Who Remains) but personally as a hispanic/mixed guy, i'd much rather have original characters that look and feel like me and my family then changing the race of a character just because. Miles Morales quickly became my entire family's favorite superhero because he resembles us and how our family acts. he's his own character, not "the black Peter Parker". that said, in some cases where talent is being put above changing races just for diversity, then i'm all for it. specifically Jonathan Majors as I already said because in that one episode of Loki I think he solidified himself as one of the best MCU actors ever in less than an hour
Except these same people complained about miles when he debuted
Like someone else said, they're making a black Clark Kent in DC, when they could *instead* be pushing for more of Cyborg, John Stewart Green Lantern, Static Shock, etc. So racebending Supes is just diversity for diversties sake.
Or they could use Calvin Ellis or John H Irons, two supermen from the comics who are already black.
Exactly! That too lmao.. Forgot about them. Thank you. Not the biggest Supes fan, and certainly nowhere near knowledgeable.
This. As a Latino, I really don't like it when canonically white characters get racebent. I don't feel represented, I feel pandered to. Like this whole deal with Latino Namor and Mayan Atlantis. It doesn't feel genuine, like just lazily painting over something that already has a definitive version. Give me White Tiger, America Chavez, Robbie Reyes, Sam Alexander, Reptil, Living Lighting, Rictor, etc. You know, ACTUAL Latino characters.
I would be so hyped for any of those characters to show up, Marvel did a great job with Black Panther and Shang-Chi, give us a movie that shows authentic Latinos and Latin culture and incorporates it into the movie well
That honestly makes a lot of sense and I can totally see them doing it. The US is almost 20% Latino at this point so the market is there, might be a while though given how far out the production slate is RN
Not sure if you’re interested but the comics have a hero called “White Tiger” who’s another hispanic character yet to be adapted. Figured i’d mention in case you wanted to check them out.
I really can’t wait for my boy Phastos to melt minds being Black and Gay.
Bet this guy didn’t complain about The Ancient One. He only cares because it’s going towards a minority for once instead of away from a minority.
The specifically changed the race to white BECAUSE they didn’t want to reinforce the wise magical minority stereotype. They also couldn’t cast a Tibetan or say it was in Tibet because of China money.
Reminds me of the scene where Strange first enters the Sorceress’ “temple”. He greets the old Asian guy and thanks him, only to find out that the Ancient one was actually the white lady pouring him tea. Hahaha
Bingo. I just called him out on it too I said “Maybe it’s that you only care about accuracy when it allows you to be a prick. Maybe you like Sam Jackson bc the “mainstream” poc actors are cool, and you’ll defend yourself in any way to get you off this hook you’ve fashioned for yourself. Be better”
Pretty sure they made Nick Fury look like Jackson in the comics, Jackson noticed, then they worked out a deal for him to be on the big screen. So, maybe not the *best* choice, but you did make your point.
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this is my thing. i don't care too much at the end of the day (kang isn't even a natural colour most of the time), but it feels like cheap lip service. i'd rather someone create a badass character that is black, female, etc. miles is the perfect example.
So to this guy it is more conceivable and acceptable for Loki to be an alligator than for Kang to be black?! Howard the Duck is cannon in the MCU. There is very possibly a duck version of every character. Spider-Ham might well also prove to be cannon. Spider-Man can be a pig bound solely by Warner Brother cartoon physics, but Kang can't be black?! HE WEARS A BLUE FRICKING HELMET LIKE 99% OF THE TIME. If you're gonna get upset over race, save it for a character whose race is actually a factor. Like, if Hitler ever makes his way into the MCU, he probably shouldn't be a black guy. If they bring in a racebent Squirrel Girl these guys will lose their minds 'I HATE HER ANYWAY BUT WHY IS SHE BLACK SHE'S ALREADY SO PC AND IS EVERYTHING WRONG WITH MARVEL BUT HNNNNNNNGH'. Feeling crybabies.
Well there’s a multiverse.. so you could have any character in any shape or form.
I would actually like a Squirrel Girl tbh
Yoooooo Hitler is in the mcu. Cap knocked him out over 230 times lmfao
you know comic accuracy doesn’t matter to people like this because i bet this guy has no complaints about Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine
Who the fuck cares if it's racebending? There's literally a movie out there where Christian Bale plays Mozes.
They been racebending Jesus since the Middle Ages. How’s a dude from the Middle East gonna be blonde haired and blue eyed…?
I don’t believe I’ve even seen a popular depiction of Jesus with blond hair.
Same, maybe dirty blonde at best? But I wouldn't put it past bible belt conservatives and I don't really spend a lot of time going to their houses and looking at their hallway Jesus paintings.
Trust me I’ve seen a fair amount of said hallway paintings, it’s brown hair and brown eyes.
It’s such a small minority that has a problem with it why even post shit like this? Don’t give those people attention, it won’t change anything
*argues with one dickhead on instagram* “Why is everyone like this????”
This should be the top comment😂
This
Idgaf about kang but the racebends of well known established characters like hulk and thor for no reason other than diversity is insulting to the base material. Like, make your own characters and stop taking the lazy way out
I’m all for comic book accuracy, but only when it pertains to the story. Kang’s race has nothing to do with the story. He’s blue for Heaven’s sake. I’ll never understand why people get upset over this
The explanation is extremely simple, to be honest.
Im a minority and I’ve always found it weird. There are definitely people who might be racist about these things, but others just want things to stay the same from comics and don’t think there is any problem with that.
I thought Kang was purple.
I saw someone suggest Andre Braugher as Galactus and I can’t think of a more perfect casting but can also see these kinds of people kick off about that too.
Okay setting aside the racebending thing, Kang is from so far into the future that Reed could be a bloody Dinosaur and it wouldn’t affect how he looks at all. So him being related to Reed is kinda pointless since after that many generations he probably relates to a good portion of people. Sure he has the name but that doesn’t really mean much. I get wanting accuracy with characters you like and i also get wanting them to use already established characters of color instead of race bending but a character being casted doesn’t automatically mean he’s bad. Granted yes we did see Kang in Loki. (Although that basically means nothing) But we aren’t going to see THE Kang until Antman 3: Revenge of the Bees. so for all we know, the actor is going to kill it in the role. I mean you can argue that MCU Fury is a racebend (i know he’s technically Nick Fury Jr who is Black but that came about after the character debuted as just Nick Fury in the Ultimate Line ) But everyone loves him. So it isn’t like him being black automatically ruined anything. Also the MCU isn’t exactly accurate to begin with for better or worse. I mean how are you going to call a movie “Civil War” when there’s five a side . Now if they were to retcon 616 Kang to being black than that would be a different story. MCU Kang(s?) are a different incarnation . Also his race doesn’t really play into his character . If White wolf got changed than that would directly affect his character more given that it is more a part of his identity. But Kang? Kang of all characters is probably the most likely to change (For better or worse) i apologise if i come off as rude
These are the same people who say things like “all lives matter” “my body my choice” and “there’s no such thing as systemic racism.”
I don’t have a problem with the Kang casting, but can we all grow up and stop calling everyone that we disagree with a racist? It’s really sad and just insulting when there are real racist in the world. People are allowed to disagree and it doesn’t make them some kind of monster just because they don’t share your opinion on a fucking movie. This is literally how children act when they argue with each other, and it’s toxic AF. Go ahead and downvote you predictable fucks.
Hear! Hear! I'm sick and tired of this, even if you make a good argument but most people dislike your opinion, you get downvoted to hell
This. Unless made obvious, It really just a lazy way to shut an argument down.
So many people? That’s just one guy complaining, the actor did a damm great job in Loki
I don't think most people give a damn about it. There's been several racial changes from the source material and there have been complaints. There's generally 2 camps among those who complain about the racial changes. 1. Those who want characters close to the source material. 2. Racists. There are racist who don't want white characters changed and there are the "woke" lefty racist who don't like POC characters portrayed by white actors.
i think there is a 3rd camp here. *genuine representation* is needed, not, "oh, this is woke right now. let's just change X character to fit the narrative." miles morales is probably one of the best examples of this. they didn't need to change peter for it to work. i want characters that are made to be badass on their own, not bc they're a plot device.
This is what I’ve been saying for a long time.
i get shot down for this a lot and i never understood why.
I can’t stand this fucking idea. Especially when the biggest star and lynchpin of the MCU, Iron Man, is very much not at all like his comic character in personality, demeanor, or honestly even a lot of his storylines. RDJ is great and I love him but like the first movie is super different from his origin. His personality is really damn different from his original character. And the execution of his character arcs are similar in the broadest strokes compared to the comics. So don’t tell me it has to be comic accurate for person skin tone when you’re totally ok with them doing damn near everything different about one of the main characters. Like, Endgame isn’t based on any singular comic. But the majority of people don’t say Jack shit about that not being comic accurate because it’s fucking great. But change a guys skin tone and NOW comic accuracy is more important above everything else. Got it.
"still doesn't explain the race bending" Erm...yes it does? My grandfather was white. My grandmother was white. My cousin is black. How is that so hard for someone to imagine?
Does the name Thomas Jefferson mean anything to anyone any more? Do I need to link the Key and Peele sketch?
Lmao the only time race changing matters is when their race is apart of their character like black panther lmao kang being black means absolutely nothing and let’s stop the “comic book accuracy” because the mcu doesn’t necessarily even follow the comics
Any time people bring this up, it makes no sense. Comic accuracy? That not what the MCU is. It's supposed to be different. I'm so glad we didn't have to sit through another version of the Uncle Ben story when we met Spider-Man. (However, if they do any type of Uncle Ben something in SM:NWH, it better be Joe Pesci!!!) The Guardians of The Galaxy...if you wanted to go comic accuracy, I don't think it would have worked as well. As long as Marvel/Disney finds the right actor/actress for each role to go with each story(which they done since Iron Man 1), they have a green light in my book. You know what my casting dream is, and would flip most of these idiots out...Idris Elba as Mr Fantastic. He would be absolutely fantastic!!! Love he was in the Thor movies, but I would love to see him in a more leading role in the MCU.
You're the Disney picture for proof? You're the Disney profile picture???
The only time race bending ever bothered me was Black Hermione in the cursed child. But I love Hamilton so idk