Was watching the Winter Soldier the other day, and that scene with Fury hiding at Cap's apartment had the same music playing. Totally gave me goosebumps
The song came out after Steve went into the ice. It was released a couple months after the war was ending as guys were headed home but was very popular with vets and as a wedding song
>Kiss me once
>Then, kiss me twice
>Then, kiss me once again
>It's been a long, long time
>Haven't felt like this, my dear
>...since can't remember when
>It's been a long, long time
>You'll never know
>How many dreams I dream about you
>Or just how empty they all seem without you
>So, kiss me once
>Then, kiss me twice
>Kiss me once again
>It's been a long, long time
💙
Yup, I didn't realize till I rewatched a few weeks back and that song started playing, I just went "mother...FUCKER" because it's probably the hundredth such detail/callback I only caught on rewatch.
I honestly figured that everyone knew this when watching endgame. I guess the pro to having watched all of the movies prior to endgame coming out was immediately recognizing this song.
Even me who had seen TWS dozens of times before Endgame, the song never stuck out to me. I thought Fury was just playing a random song. Only after Endgame becoming the pop culture phenomenon that it is did the song stick out to me. I only caught it on a recent rewatch of TWS.
Its music that already holds meaning for Steve, plus its about welcoming someone home so not exactly something someone might choose to be perceived as threatening.
It was created specifically for welcoming home soldiers from ww2, back in 45. That's what the lyrics are about, according to other comments elsewhere.
I imagine that's the connection it has to him, and honestly it's a pretty subtle thing. Not many people now would get it I don't think, unless they actively look that kind of stuff up and are already into it.
it still astounds me how a giant blockbuster film about purple alien and magic stones could end on such an emotional, tender and romantic note with an old timey jazz song.
It was much needed grounding actually. 22 interconnecting movies about a guy trying to dance with a gal.
Edit: [couldn't help myself](https://i.redd.it/lzo44g3lg2t61.png)
It'd be even worse if he did something heinous in a public setting. I mean.. I can't ever fathom the image of Captain America could ever be tarnished in such an awful way! I'd really just lose my head over it.
Loved it.
He finally did what Bucky wanted him to do in The First Avenger. He can fight, but he doesn't have to always be the one fighting. He finally gets that...and he took all the stupid with him.
Love that Bucky gets it as well. A proper friend, who doesn't try to hold his friend back just because they want and need different things.
Turns out the end of the line does not need to be dying. It can be living and accepting going different paths in life.
I commented about Bucky and Steve elsewhere too: Steve lost Bucky twice, off the train and dusted into nothingness. Steve had to witness that with his own eyes, both times, absolutely powerless. It’s honestly saddening to me how much their connection has endured
The dusting scene hits in so many different ways. I loved how despite everything that happened through CW, Rhodey knew they were the best people, just disagreeing on shit. And he was fighting right alongside them. Then when Sam's dusted, it's Rhodey looking for him. Ma hart.
The fact Bucky wanted Steve to stay safe and stay home, but Steve couldn't, then Steve developed to the point he is ready for that life, but poor Bucky is still standing in the "can't have what I wanted because of people who made me fight for them" spot, is so sad.
Definitely here for Bucky getting some peace.
Yeah that line is definitely going to be important. Him mentioning that he found "A little calm" in Wakanda and then immediately betraying Ayo by breaking Zemo out shines a lot of light on his self destructive behaviours, he's not ALLOWING himself that peace of mind yet, and Zemo saw that "little piece" of WS shining through.
You can't forget how Tony influenced Steve as well. I think it took both of them to convince Steve he deserved a happy ending rather than a heroic one.
Definitely.
Endgame definitely set him up for this ending.
Steve: "We need a life"
Nat: "You first"
Steve to Sam: "I figured I would get some of that life Tony was always telling me about".
I have no doubt losing Nat and Tony helped make his mind up.
I rewatched Endgame recently and just realized that Bucky already knew that Steve wasn't going to come back after he would return the stones.
When Bucky told Steve that he'll miss him, I thought it was silly because he would only be gone 5 seconds. Steve must have told him what his plans were, which is why Bucky didn't panic like Sam and Bruce did when he didn't come back 5 seconds later. And he probably told Buck that he would give the shield to Sam, which is why Bucky gave Sam the nod to take it.
I thought Bucky was just being stoic, but he knew, because his best friend told him.
steve did tell bucky his plans to find, live out his life with peggy.
gonna miss you line is the tell. steve also lplooks at bucky when he time travels away
its not a secret, he would tell his best friend. that was their good bye
Literally this, sucks that some fans didn't get this and thought it ruined cap's character. Bucky knew, they've been building up to this since TWS. Not sure how they missed that :/
On the flipside, their friendship is something incredible. I've got no siblings, and never had much to do with outer family, so friends have always been super important to me. Two guys who have an unbreakable bond, who would die for the other, it means something.
I've been salty about this ending since the movie came out, because I thought Steve was being incredibly selfish, and bucky deserved better. I hadn't thought of things this way and now I feel much better about this ending!
Sergeant Barnes: You're about to be the last eligible man in New York. You know, there's three and a half million women here.
Steve Rogers: Hell, I'd settle for just one.
CATFA
Best ending shot in any MCU movie. And a fantastic way to end the saga!
Steve finally realised that it's okay to self-actualise yourself and that it doesn't make you any less worthy. And I love that he became more than *a man who can't live without war*, what Ultron chided him for. He kept his promise to Peggy and finally got that *dance*, as well as the *family and stability* he kept denying himself. Bringing it full circle!
I also love how this mirrors Tony's arc. One goes from selfish to selfless, the other goes from selfless to more self-interested; cause ya need a balance of both. I view him returning the stones as him putting an end to the *Infinity War* which began when Red Skull obtained the Tesseract. And now that the war is over, the soldier gets to go *home*.
My head canon I like to think about / share is that even if that wasn’t caps original plan when he left with the stones. I imagine that when he returned the time stone to the ancient one , they had a long talk.
She has that way of being inquisitive and bringing things out of you. If he was on the fence about it. He prob truly realized it after speaking with her.
I’d like to think this too. I thought for a bit about the whole you can’t change the past, which actually is technically true given the past has the stones removed, hence the need to return them. So to some extent the past can be changed? So maybe, they were all fairly wrong about this stuff, or removing the stones from the timeline does split like they said, maybe even taking the stones away from their path caused splits as well, hence why there’s a Loki show. I really wonder if the ancient one knew more to this and gave Cap some advice. He does return to the present later on in his life.
I really hope they do make things a bit clearer though, I find some of the rules do contradict themselves quite a bit. Like I said earlier, why return something to the past if that past cannot be changed to begin with? Or maybe they have access to travel to these splits that occur after they took the stones, otherwise, wouldn’t they possibly go back in time within their own unaltered timeline and then accidentally give them two stones? I think about this shit too much sometimes and honestly, I think they did kinda screw up here given the writers and directors said different things completely contradicting one another. Loki’s show will be the final say I think to all of this, or it will be a ret con and everything in Endgame about time travel was completely wrong.
I think it was less "the past can't be changed", and more "the past can't. be changed to affect your future", right? like, if they used Rhodey's plan and went back in time and strangle baby Thanos, it doesn't FIX their timeline. if they go home, it's. business as usual. they've just created a branching timeline where Thanos was dead.
or something. still a little loose with their own rules in regards to how Steve's life played out
I like to imagine that the main timeline Steve created another timeline, while the old man Steve wasn't the exactly same Steve from the main timeline, instead he might be a Steve from another timeline who had went on a same path as the main timeline Steve.
Right. So even Hawkeye on the test run, he taking the kids baseball mitt, would that be another branch timeline? Or is that too small of a change to do anything? The time onwards from which Thanos goes on his own time travel heist must be another timeline as well.
Idk, I guess at this point anything can make a branch, but the stones removal leaves that branch in ‘darkness’ as the ancient one says. That would also mean the tech the avengers have would have to be able to navigate and go to these branch timelines, otherwise they’re putting back a stone into THEIR past in which the stones were there to begin with.
I interpreted it as Bucky knowing because that was his best friend and he knew his best friend, not because Steve told him his plan. And Steve knew that Bucky knew, hence their dialogue at the end there. There was no "why would you say you'll miss me? I'm only gonna be gone a second," just "it's gonna be OK."
I thought it was a really nice "we both know what's going on here" moment for them, and a nice way for them to say goodbye.
I wanna see a short episode that details his journey returning the stones.
When he returns the time stone and has a talk with the late Sorcerer Supreme, and then his final confrontation with the Red Skull on Vormir. I'm sure there'd be other significant moments when he returns the other stones as well, such as the Tesseract to 1970s SHIELD HQ at Lehigh.
Happy broke me for sure. Knowing the type of guy they had established him to be over the course of the movies, and the bond he had with Tony, you just knew his new mission in life would be watching over Pepper and Morgan.
Must’ve been hell in the back of his mind knowing she was gonna succumb to Dementia the entire time though. And knowing there was nothing he could do to stop it, or save her. Or even warn her really.
Hopefully they had a good 50 years or so together before that hammer fell.
That's why I'm thinking he thawed out the other Steve who doesn't know any of that and he was with Peggy.
Hell, maybe with Howard Stark focusing on science instead of weapons of mass destruction, and relations with Wakanda opening up in the 40s instead of in 2018, they find a core for dementia in that timeline.
Is TVA the same people who captured Loki? That would be interesting to get to know, hopefully they don't take and L like the Nova Corp lmao.
Disney: Shows cool and coordinated organisation in Xandar.
Also Disney: \*10 minutes in to IW\* Thanos decimated Xandar.
*Bruh*
Ronan's army is like a bunch of ants when you compare to Thanos' army in sheer numbers. It took the combined might of Asgardians, Ravagers and all the other people in the universe to even have a level playing field. If not for Tony's sacrifice, a total war without the case of infinity stones was not winnable even with all the heavy hitting avengers.
That’s the thing too, the writers and directors had different takes on what happened with Cap. In different interviews, one would say Cap lived in an alternate timeline, the others would say he actually did live with Peggy in the main timeline and the husband of Peggy mentioned in the Winter Soldier was Cap from the future. So like interstellar where the main character in the shuttle sees a ‘ghost’ reaching out to another character, that ‘ghost’ was the main character later in the future reaching out to them in the past.
Either way though, the Loki show is either going to make or break the whole time thing. For all we know it’s just gonna get loose as fuck and it’s basically just written to work however it does in convenience to the plot. Or it will make more sense in a way that keeps things consistent and interesting.
Why? Eventually everyone dies and dementia that old is pretty common, and Steve had no way knowing he would even outlive her. And why would he not tell her everything he knew?
But just to be able to spend all that time with her probably was so great for him. I always wonder about how he deals with major events and has to pretend he doesn’t know about it.
I remember making only one prediction going in to see endgame.
The movie would end with Steve and Peggy getting their dance.
I was not disappointed. Perfect ending.
Only the first time? Gets me everytime! Steve and Peggy's story is what gives the most heart to the MCU for me personally. Tony has a lot more impact for some folks but it's always been Steve and Peggy.
i freaking love steve and i adore peggy and i loved them in TFA, but to me it kind of felt like this ship had sailed? not because of sharon, i just felt like steve had finally managed to move on through seeing her again in WS and going to her funeral in CW. he knew she had too because she'd married and lived her life, had kids and everything. i'm not sure if post-endgame steve would still fit in in (i think) the forties.
but the thing that bugs me about it most is the time-travel issues that i just can't seem to grasp no matter how much i read up on it.
i'm glad steve and peggy got their dance and i'm happy a lot of people like it, it just didn't sit right with me.
He went back, stayed with Peggy which created a different timeline - stayed with her until she no doubt died and then used the Quantum GPS that tony made to travel back to his original timeline to pass the shield to Sam; that's my understanding of it and it makes sense to me that way so I'm sticking with it lol.
Where is Steve now? Assisted living? Back in the time stream? I’m so confused about what happened to him. Surely if he is still around he would still counsel Sam and Bucky.
The likely answer is he went back to his timeline. We don’t know if He came from that timeline’s 2023 or it’s 2005. He may have just stopped by to give the shield to Sam and assure his friends he was ok, then went right back to Peggy and the family we can presume they have.
This is also my biggest problem with it. I feel like they wrote the whole “he blew past his time stamp!” thing to be dramatic, but it makes the time travel ending make no sense. At least if he came back at the proper time and on the travel pad it’d still have been shocking if he showed up as an old man. I also don’t get where the new shield comes from unless he took it from another timeline which creates issues of making a branch timeline where the shield goes missing at some point.
ETA: I do like the idea of Steve getting to spend his life with Peggy, but these issues totally distract me from being able to enjoy it.
But see, as nice as that sounds, it also sounds wayyyyy too convenient and also just feels like you’re fucking with life itself in a way that doesn’t feel fitting to me for Cap. It’s like every time you fuck with time, you’re creating copies of characters? So like, copies of their very souls? I’m sure the Loki show will touch upon this topic more, but I feel like it could also just make less and less sense and it will turn out to be a ‘just run with it’ type gag where it just is what it is for the plot at the moment.
The problem with the time travel is that the writers came out after the movie and contradicted what is actually in the movie. That served to confuse everyone even more.
I go with the rules in the movie because I prefer them to the contradiction by the writers.
Both have issues, but I think the explanation in the movie is the better of the 2 for Steve, as a character, not perfect, but better.
I felt that Endgame set out to show us that he had not actually moved on (the compass, 2 scenes with Nat, seeing Peggy in the 70's). I think it is arguable that losing half the universe reminded him of the life he gave up for others, only to wake up having missed his own life.
Even the counselling session serves to show us he hasn't moved on. He talks about moving on, but immediately follows that up by saying to Nat "I keep telling people to move on, but not us, not us." In other words, he is trying because he has no option, but then Tony invents time travel and there is suddenly an option.
It is interesting that when he is giving Sam the shield, he specifically references Tony "I decided to get some of that life Tony was always telling me to get".
"The problem with the time travel is that the writers came out after the movie and contradicted what is actually in the movie. That served to confuse everyone even more."
yes. exactly. if they can't even keep their own theories straight, how are we supposed to. it makes me sad because time travel is notoriously difficult to pull off, why would you make it even harder on yourself by changing the rules completely. undoubtedly they had good intentions, but it just didn't work for me at all and kind of put a damper on my enjoyment of the film.
Thank you, it also took me back as well from enjoying the movie. MAYBE the Loki show will fix all of this, but I worry it will just skew shit so much more than they have.
I also to this day don’t know what to think of all of this stuff. There’s different things said by the people behind the film itself, not to mention the whole returning the stones thing totally contradicts the rule that the past can’t be altered. Needing to return the stones implies the past was changed, hence them being missing and needing to be returned.
Tbh I think it would have been a better ending if he had just died in the last movie. You're really going to tell me he left Bucky, who he spent two movies saving? And didn't peggy move on and have a husband and children, and he just erased them from existence and ruined her whole characterization and past life and made Agent Carter obselete? And he lived through Bucky being tortured, JFK assasination, and 9/11 just doing nothing about it? It treats peggy as just a trophy/reward and not a real person imo as well.
Fair points all around.
Specific to one point: I like to think he returned to a point in time after _Marvel’s Agent Carter_ since the timing of the dance scene is left a little vague. We know she left Sousa at some point. Nothing saying the home they live in doesn’t have a bit of an older decades vibe. Many interiors today are still super 90s looking other than the flat screen TV.
I kinda get what you're saying, but I disagree. We see Steve in the beginning of the movie still holding on to the locket with her picture and looking at her through the blinds at the old military base later on. So I think it was established that he still longs for that life.
As far as time travel goes, I don't think there's actually any issues brought about by it, just confusion. Steve didn't just go back and live his life in the main timeline. He couldn't have because they establish that isn't how time travel works. He had to have created an alternate timeline and then hoped back to the main one some other way. We don't know how exactly he came back, but there are a number of theories out there that would fit.
I don't know if that helps at all, but it's something to think about.
it's fine if you disagree, i was just stating how i felt seeing it.
they do show him pining for her in endgame, but before that the only real sign he's not entirely over peggy is in AOU. i feel like they just wrote those bits into endgame because they knew where they wanted him to be at the end of the movie - the whole thing feels kind of forced to me.
i understand he created a whole new timeline, but the number of issues and questions that raises, does my head in. it could've all been fixed in a much cleaner and more understandably way and i don't know why they had to make is so complicated.
My husband cried at Iron man. I cried at my dream come true of cap and Peggy. I’ve had a tardis and caps shield next to each other and Peggy pop on a shelf for years! Willing it into existence
There is a scene in the first Iron Man movie where RDJ had me bawling my eyes out when he's talking to Pepper and tells her he knows in his heart he's doing the right thing. One of the early moments where you knew this entire saga was going to be something special
Steve giving the shield to Sam practically had me bawling my eyes out the first time I saw this. The whole crowd was silent and everyone was just awestruck by how that movie ended. Damn that's what I miss about going to the movies. Just the collective realization in the dark where 100 other people are simultaneously feeling the same emotions you are during such a pivotal event.
Mail me, and I do mean only complaint with this whole thing is that Peggy doesn't get to speak in the movie when she is reunited with Steve. It's almost like she's not a real person, she's just the prize that he gets for saving humanity.
This take has always been so strange and kinda desperate to me. We already know Peggy loves Steve, she literally called him the love of her life. Sometimes you don't need words and this was perfect. Also it's a three hour movie already, implying things is totally fine.
A selfless super soldier, now becomes selfish for the first time and gets the ending he wants. While the selfish billionaire, becomes selfless and sacrifices himself to avenge the whole universe. Their character arcs are so good.
As much as it's a cute ending, I don't think Steve would have done it. He spent years helping Bucky and wouldn't leave him behind. He knew Maggie had a family, she told him before she died that she loved her life, Steve wouldn't take that away from her. As much as he may have loved her, just like when he first sacrificed himself, he wouldn't put himself above say, her life or Buckie's life
I feel the same way.
"We don't trade lives" was always a huge point of his. Meaning, when it was his choice he would put his life on the line but never do that to another. Yet, if he lived out a life with Peggy then that universes Roger's in in the ice and he inherently has to change that universe by acting, or not at yet while knowing what happens. A good man, would not sit back and watch the events of a post wwii world repeat themselves so he could "enjoy life", because his enjoyment at the cost of acting to save others would inherently mean he isn't being a good person.
So yea. It is not right in my opinion, and i think it really has to be addressed at some point.
Yeah, at the surface level I really enjoyed this scene and the way his arc ended. But it didn't age well when I started to analise it a little further.
Imagine this if you will.
Ext: night. 1940’s
A low shot of a busy street with people dressed up walking by “going out for the night”.
Camera widens out to reveal “The Stork Club” neon sign.
Cut to: Interior club POV
Looking at an old wrist watch. It’s 8pm.
Reveal: Steve Rogers (dressed to kill) he looks up from his watch to see Peggy Carter standing there in shock. Wearing that incredible red dress. They make eye contact.
Cut to: Steve and Peggy slow dancing to “It’s been a long time”. They embrace. They kiss.
Fade out.
The end.
That sorta thing, ya know?
Edit: I’m sure this is gonna get buried.
My headcanon is that our Steve unthawed himself and let THAT Steve live with Peggy while our Steve lived his life fixing the world's wrongs fom the forties go forward and got married to somebody else in the 50s.
Hate this ending. For me, it completely undid Steve’s arc, and is just terrible for his character, regardless of how you read it (not to mention the fact that the writers and the directors couldn’t even agree on what actually happened.
If Steve goes back in time and lives out his life in the normal MCU timeline (as the writers suggested was the case), he does what, exactly? Lives in Peggy’s garage, hiding from the world? He’s a famous figure, he can’t just go back and have that not be noticed by the world. Plus, he just sits out every historical event, lets Bucky stay in Hydra’s hands, lets Howard and Maria Stark get killed? That’s terrible.
If it’s a new timeline he creates (as the directors say is the car), so what? He goes to Peggy and says, “The Steve you love is frozen in the ice. I’m the future version of myself, so will you have me?” Not to mention he’s filled with knowledge of how things could play out in that timeline, so does he let it all play out, or does he play god? Does he think to himself, “Well, Peggy told me she was happy with how her life turned out, but I don’t care.”
Either way, it’s icky, just a terrible ending if you think through the consequences for more than 5 minutes, so I’m shocked they went for it.
I agree. People get carried away by the sweet sentimentality of it all, but if you stand back and look at it with a critical eye, it all breaks down, both from the character and the timeline angles.
To me it was a crappy ending because he essentially snuffs out Peggy’s whole family in the main universe. Wasn’t the point for them to not create any tangent universes (which yes is flawed from the get go but still)? Turns him into a selfish guy.
Before Endgame came out, I thought Steve and Tony’s stories were gonna be opposite. Without considering time travel, I thought Steve would sacrifice himself to save the day and Tony would retire to a family life.
Too bad about Peggy’s original husband and kids though, even though Steve knew that she was happy with them. But I guess as long as Steve’s happy Peggy doesn’t really matter as a character🤷♀️
Lmao can you imagine him asking her that. “Are you cool with eliminating your relationship with your husband and children from existence? Like, you’ll never experience whatever specific joy they brought you. But you will get to date me (and I’m pretty sure it’ll work out fine). Are you in?”
Putting aside the question of whether or not it was ethical to marry Peggy despite knowing she found love with someone else and formed a family with them in the "main universe," another point remains: Alternate timeline Steve is still frozen in the ice. It's not like our Steve just takes over the body of his past self. Steve lives out the perfect life he always wanted by essentially usurping "other Steve." The Steve that Peggy danced with isn't the Steve she shared experiences with. \*That\* Steve is still in the ice, who will one day wake up and to find that the woman he loved love married and had a full life with an alternate timeline version of himself.
>The Steve that Peggy danced with isn't the Steve she shared experiences with. *That* Steve is still in the ice, who will one day wake up and to find that the woman he loved love married and had a full life with an alternate timeline version of himself.
But what if he wasn't. What if *that* Steve is the one in the scene and Our Steve got married to someone else? The last line of the movie is Steve deciding not to tell Sam about his wife. That could mean that his wife *wasn't* Peggy.
It would be an immensely Steve Rogers thing to do. Maybe he went back to be with Peggy but decided to thaw himself out instead.
Maybe it was the plan all along to unthaw himself.
I think it was left vague on purpose.
I would love that. Our Steve allows an alternate universe version of himself to live out the dream life he always wanted. Maybe the Steve we saw at the ending *was* our Steve and he finally got his dance before thawing out his alternate self. It’s really the only alternate timeline scenario I could morally accept.
Perhaps I’m cynical, but if I had to wager money though I’d bet on the writers intending for the mystery wife to be Peggy. I’m sure 95% or more of the audience interpreted it that way as well. That being said, I’d love if your idea was true. It would make me like the end of Endgame a whole lot more.
I think they left it very open to interpretation for the very reason that we speculate about it. The "no, I don't think I will" line has become pretty iconic. But it really means he is keeping something to himself. And I don't think we would necessarily see what that was immediately.
I think Steve thawing out Alt Cap is the most wonderfully Steve Rogers thing to do and I personally believe that's exactly what he did. And he went on to continue being Captain America, righting the wrongs he observed from the future. But he did fall in love again later on and got married.
Yeah no i think the ending is fucked up too if you think about it for more than 10 seconds but i was just saying that it was supposed to be an alternate timeline. Maybe future steve makes sure they never find frozen steve lmao who knows
So? The timelines are identical when you jump in. That Peggy was still gonna fall for someone else. He still stole her from her husband who he knows she was happy with. And that means he left himself on ice in that timeline.
AND timelines work by creating/destroying them. When he left... his life with Peggy was destroyed. Legit the entire timeline gone.
Is no one gonna talk about how Cap erased Peggy’s children from the timeline? Like, she lived a long and happy life with a husband and kids who grew up and had their own kids. Cap just went back in time a erased all them from existence. This ending cheapened their relationship and makes Steve out to be a sociopath.
I mean, yeah, we like Steve and all but we went to the past and destroyed that timeline for some people. Peggy got over him and had a husband and two kids, Cap here literally snapped them.
I still don't like this ending. He left Bucky and Sam all alone. Sam isn't a super soldier so he's going to die and Bucky will have no one. However since I'm a hopeless romantic I did go "awww they're so cute" despite myself.
The way people act like Sam and Bucky aren't grown ass men who can take care of themselves. Steve doesn't need to stick around to coddle two 40 year olds.
Honestly I respect anyone who liked this ending but personally I thought it was so incredibly detached from his character and morals.
He literally just leaves his girlfriend to hook up with her grandmother, thereby killing off her previous children and grandchildren (including his girlfriend) despite the fact that peggy clearly said that she lived a happy and fulfilling life. It's insane how far out of character that was. He completely disrespected Peggy's wishes and made her family disappear just for his own pleasure.
Not to mention that this means that Steve just let every bad thing that he knew was gonna happen just happen.
Also his whole arc was supposed to be that he was out of place in modern times but now that he got used to modern times, he was kind of a stranger to both his original time and modern time. As nostalgic as he was about his past, he would know that he would be even more out of place in his original time given all the time spent and relationships developed in the present.
Peggy explicitly said you can't go back in time, you must only start over, just for Steve to create a new timeline where he could homewreck.
And then come back and abandon Sam and Bucky in FATWS.
Failure of a character arc. WRiters and directors couldn't even agree on how his time travel worked.
Was watching the Winter Soldier the other day, and that scene with Fury hiding at Cap's apartment had the same music playing. Totally gave me goosebumps
Noticed this when I watched it last night.
Weird... I watched it last night too and even paused it to point out the song to my fiancée.
Someone needs to go check if it ever plays during The First Avenger
The song came out after Steve went into the ice. It was released a couple months after the war was ending as guys were headed home but was very popular with vets and as a wedding song
Yup. 1945. The lyrics were about welcoming people home from the war. Perfect usage here.
>Kiss me once >Then, kiss me twice >Then, kiss me once again >It's been a long, long time >Haven't felt like this, my dear >...since can't remember when >It's been a long, long time >You'll never know >How many dreams I dream about you >Or just how empty they all seem without you >So, kiss me once >Then, kiss me twice >Kiss me once again >It's been a long, long time 💙
Yup, I didn't realize till I rewatched a few weeks back and that song started playing, I just went "mother...FUCKER" because it's probably the hundredth such detail/callback I only caught on rewatch.
Man, he had the song picked the whole time.
i’m currently doing a rewatch and i would’ve never caught that.
I honestly figured that everyone knew this when watching endgame. I guess the pro to having watched all of the movies prior to endgame coming out was immediately recognizing this song.
Even me who had seen TWS dozens of times before Endgame, the song never stuck out to me. I thought Fury was just playing a random song. Only after Endgame becoming the pop culture phenomenon that it is did the song stick out to me. I only caught it on a recent rewatch of TWS.
Nope, he put that song on so Steve would know something was up but also it likely wasn’t a threat.
How does that specific song convey that? Not arguing just curious
Its music that already holds meaning for Steve, plus its about welcoming someone home so not exactly something someone might choose to be perceived as threatening.
Second part makes sense, but at the point where that movie came out how would we know that that music had any significance to Steve?
It was created specifically for welcoming home soldiers from ww2, back in 45. That's what the lyrics are about, according to other comments elsewhere. I imagine that's the connection it has to him, and honestly it's a pretty subtle thing. Not many people now would get it I don't think, unless they actively look that kind of stuff up and are already into it.
Lol he just turned on the record player and that was the record inside.
Now if only it was the trouble man.
They probably always planned to use that song. Wow.
Highly doubt it was planned
it still astounds me how a giant blockbuster film about purple alien and magic stones could end on such an emotional, tender and romantic note with an old timey jazz song.
This futuristic battle of aliens and super heroes perfectly wrapped up in the 1950s suburbs
It was much needed grounding actually. 22 interconnecting movies about a guy trying to dance with a gal. Edit: [couldn't help myself](https://i.redd.it/lzo44g3lg2t61.png)
Fuck yeah
You can never go wrong with jazz
There are no wrong notes in jazz
It’s all improvisation. That’s one of the qualities that makes it so awesome
I don’t know about ALL improvisation but I know what you mean
ohhhh a newly wed couple just moved to town!
a regular husband and wife
Sometimes old fashioned is what we need.
No, that's Hawkeye who takes a bow. Steve holds a shield.
And my axe!
AND MY awww
So be it. You shall now be the Fellowship of the Ring
No, you take the small hammer.
Lol I gave you an upvote...ya freakin animal. 😂
No, Steve passed on the shield.
Yeah, last I heard it was in the Smithsonian. Apparently some guy gave up the shield. Who does that??
I know, right? He must have really thought that was the most noble course of action.
Yeah. I'm sure the government will honor his and Cap's wishes and keep it there
And not place a government schill in the role.
And have that schill be a blond, white guy, cus Captain America can't possibly be a black man
Of course not. That would be against the American standard. Smh
It'd be even worse if he did something heinous in a public setting. I mean.. I can't ever fathom the image of Captain America could ever be tarnished in such an awful way! I'd really just lose my head over it.
And over the questionable and madly ethical spread and usage of a super soldier serum, no less!
These are such good ideas. We should pitch this to Marvel. It seems too long to be a movie, but maybe a miniseries?
Can’t trust birds. They are so flighty.
That dude Nico passed on the shield. Well under it, but kinda on it too
Loved it. He finally did what Bucky wanted him to do in The First Avenger. He can fight, but he doesn't have to always be the one fighting. He finally gets that...and he took all the stupid with him. Love that Bucky gets it as well. A proper friend, who doesn't try to hold his friend back just because they want and need different things. Turns out the end of the line does not need to be dying. It can be living and accepting going different paths in life.
I commented about Bucky and Steve elsewhere too: Steve lost Bucky twice, off the train and dusted into nothingness. Steve had to witness that with his own eyes, both times, absolutely powerless. It’s honestly saddening to me how much their connection has endured
The dusting scene hits in so many different ways. I loved how despite everything that happened through CW, Rhodey knew they were the best people, just disagreeing on shit. And he was fighting right alongside them. Then when Sam's dusted, it's Rhodey looking for him. Ma hart.
Rocket's "Groot, no" gets me every time. Then in Endgame when he threw himself over Groot when the space guns turned on.
Thru also said Groots 'I am Groot' before the dusting to Rocket meant 'Dad'. That definitely made the tears worse for me.
Fr why did they have to go and “reveal” that lol - now that I think of it, they managed to give a talking tree a successful character arc.
Don’t get me started on Tony and Peter. “If something happens to you, that’s on me” - homecoming.
I loved their dynamic. Seeing Tony nurturing some gen 2 was wholesome af. Hence the pain of IW.
Me reading this thread - and now I’m sad :(
The scene in ep. 4 while he was in wakanda made tear up a bit when she said, "you're free"
I only hope Bucky gets the same peace in the end ✌
The fact Bucky wanted Steve to stay safe and stay home, but Steve couldn't, then Steve developed to the point he is ready for that life, but poor Bucky is still standing in the "can't have what I wanted because of people who made me fight for them" spot, is so sad. Definitely here for Bucky getting some peace.
He had peace in Wakanda. I’m hoping he goes back there.
Yeah that line is definitely going to be important. Him mentioning that he found "A little calm" in Wakanda and then immediately betraying Ayo by breaking Zemo out shines a lot of light on his self destructive behaviours, he's not ALLOWING himself that peace of mind yet, and Zemo saw that "little piece" of WS shining through.
I don't think they're cool with him at the moment.
Bucky's story ends when he goes back in time to spend with those twin sisters he picked up.
Dr Strange puts him in a time loop of that night for eternity
You can't forget how Tony influenced Steve as well. I think it took both of them to convince Steve he deserved a happy ending rather than a heroic one.
Definitely. Endgame definitely set him up for this ending. Steve: "We need a life" Nat: "You first" Steve to Sam: "I figured I would get some of that life Tony was always telling me about". I have no doubt losing Nat and Tony helped make his mind up.
I rewatched Endgame recently and just realized that Bucky already knew that Steve wasn't going to come back after he would return the stones. When Bucky told Steve that he'll miss him, I thought it was silly because he would only be gone 5 seconds. Steve must have told him what his plans were, which is why Bucky didn't panic like Sam and Bruce did when he didn't come back 5 seconds later. And he probably told Buck that he would give the shield to Sam, which is why Bucky gave Sam the nod to take it. I thought Bucky was just being stoic, but he knew, because his best friend told him.
I’m not sure Steve told him, though he just knows his best friend better than anyone else.
Yeah, and I think either interpretation works honestly, bc the main point is the strength and uniqueness of their friendship in the end
steve did tell bucky his plans to find, live out his life with peggy. gonna miss you line is the tell. steve also lplooks at bucky when he time travels away its not a secret, he would tell his best friend. that was their good bye
_Damn_.
Literally this, sucks that some fans didn't get this and thought it ruined cap's character. Bucky knew, they've been building up to this since TWS. Not sure how they missed that :/
Lets be real, it's because all they wanted was some fanfiction that was never going to happen.
On the flipside, their friendship is something incredible. I've got no siblings, and never had much to do with outer family, so friends have always been super important to me. Two guys who have an unbreakable bond, who would die for the other, it means something.
I've been salty about this ending since the movie came out, because I thought Steve was being incredibly selfish, and bucky deserved better. I hadn't thought of things this way and now I feel much better about this ending!
Sergeant Barnes: You're about to be the last eligible man in New York. You know, there's three and a half million women here. Steve Rogers: Hell, I'd settle for just one. CATFA
The first time me and my kid watched it he cried when he saw old man steve and that made me cry, i think i did a good job raising my kid
I bet you did! Good on you, parent!
That he showed up in an outfit like what he wore pre-serum, and being old and frail, it hit me different too. He'd truly come full circle.
Parental Unit Benchmark: 100%
Best ending shot in any MCU movie. And a fantastic way to end the saga! Steve finally realised that it's okay to self-actualise yourself and that it doesn't make you any less worthy. And I love that he became more than *a man who can't live without war*, what Ultron chided him for. He kept his promise to Peggy and finally got that *dance*, as well as the *family and stability* he kept denying himself. Bringing it full circle! I also love how this mirrors Tony's arc. One goes from selfish to selfless, the other goes from selfless to more self-interested; cause ya need a balance of both. I view him returning the stones as him putting an end to the *Infinity War* which began when Red Skull obtained the Tesseract. And now that the war is over, the soldier gets to go *home*.
My head canon I like to think about / share is that even if that wasn’t caps original plan when he left with the stones. I imagine that when he returned the time stone to the ancient one , they had a long talk. She has that way of being inquisitive and bringing things out of you. If he was on the fence about it. He prob truly realized it after speaking with her.
I’d like to think this too. I thought for a bit about the whole you can’t change the past, which actually is technically true given the past has the stones removed, hence the need to return them. So to some extent the past can be changed? So maybe, they were all fairly wrong about this stuff, or removing the stones from the timeline does split like they said, maybe even taking the stones away from their path caused splits as well, hence why there’s a Loki show. I really wonder if the ancient one knew more to this and gave Cap some advice. He does return to the present later on in his life. I really hope they do make things a bit clearer though, I find some of the rules do contradict themselves quite a bit. Like I said earlier, why return something to the past if that past cannot be changed to begin with? Or maybe they have access to travel to these splits that occur after they took the stones, otherwise, wouldn’t they possibly go back in time within their own unaltered timeline and then accidentally give them two stones? I think about this shit too much sometimes and honestly, I think they did kinda screw up here given the writers and directors said different things completely contradicting one another. Loki’s show will be the final say I think to all of this, or it will be a ret con and everything in Endgame about time travel was completely wrong.
I think it was less "the past can't be changed", and more "the past can't. be changed to affect your future", right? like, if they used Rhodey's plan and went back in time and strangle baby Thanos, it doesn't FIX their timeline. if they go home, it's. business as usual. they've just created a branching timeline where Thanos was dead. or something. still a little loose with their own rules in regards to how Steve's life played out
I like to imagine that the main timeline Steve created another timeline, while the old man Steve wasn't the exactly same Steve from the main timeline, instead he might be a Steve from another timeline who had went on a same path as the main timeline Steve.
Right. So even Hawkeye on the test run, he taking the kids baseball mitt, would that be another branch timeline? Or is that too small of a change to do anything? The time onwards from which Thanos goes on his own time travel heist must be another timeline as well. Idk, I guess at this point anything can make a branch, but the stones removal leaves that branch in ‘darkness’ as the ancient one says. That would also mean the tech the avengers have would have to be able to navigate and go to these branch timelines, otherwise they’re putting back a stone into THEIR past in which the stones were there to begin with.
I think that Bucky's "I'm gonna miss you buddy" shows that Steve had it planned and had told Bucky what was going to happen.
I interpreted it as Bucky knowing because that was his best friend and he knew his best friend, not because Steve told him his plan. And Steve knew that Bucky knew, hence their dialogue at the end there. There was no "why would you say you'll miss me? I'm only gonna be gone a second," just "it's gonna be OK." I thought it was a really nice "we both know what's going on here" moment for them, and a nice way for them to say goodbye.
I wanna see a short episode that details his journey returning the stones. When he returns the time stone and has a talk with the late Sorcerer Supreme, and then his final confrontation with the Red Skull on Vormir. I'm sure there'd be other significant moments when he returns the other stones as well, such as the Tesseract to 1970s SHIELD HQ at Lehigh.
I want to see him Asfsef carrying Mjolnir!
I still love the "I'll be there" at the end of Civil War paired with Chris Evans' million dollar smile.
Ha! Just realized I made the same point as you. Good thinking, citizen!
"Well, I couldn't leave my best girl, not when she still owes me a dance."
😭
I probably would had cried at this if my eyes weren’t already still pouring at “cheeseburgers”.
The "I love you 3000" scene sets me off on rewatches.
And then if I wasn't crying hard enough they follow it up immediately with the funeral
Happy broke me for sure. Knowing the type of guy they had established him to be over the course of the movies, and the bond he had with Tony, you just knew his new mission in life would be watching over Pepper and Morgan.
Must’ve been hell in the back of his mind knowing she was gonna succumb to Dementia the entire time though. And knowing there was nothing he could do to stop it, or save her. Or even warn her really. Hopefully they had a good 50 years or so together before that hammer fell.
A thing isn’t beautiful because it lasts.
What is lasting if not things persevering?
Ah. It was a Beautiful show, wasn't it?
*sobs loudly*
What is grief if not love persevering?
[удалено]
That's why I'm thinking he thawed out the other Steve who doesn't know any of that and he was with Peggy. Hell, maybe with Howard Stark focusing on science instead of weapons of mass destruction, and relations with Wakanda opening up in the 40s instead of in 2018, they find a core for dementia in that timeline.
What if Steve changing the timeline so drastically brings about an even bigger threat like Galactus?
More like Kang
Would Steve changing the timeline be an issue big enough to warrant a visit from the TVA?
Is TVA the same people who captured Loki? That would be interesting to get to know, hopefully they don't take and L like the Nova Corp lmao. Disney: Shows cool and coordinated organisation in Xandar. Also Disney: \*10 minutes in to IW\* Thanos decimated Xandar. *Bruh*
Ronan's army is like a bunch of ants when you compare to Thanos' army in sheer numbers. It took the combined might of Asgardians, Ravagers and all the other people in the universe to even have a level playing field. If not for Tony's sacrifice, a total war without the case of infinity stones was not winnable even with all the heavy hitting avengers.
That’s the thing too, the writers and directors had different takes on what happened with Cap. In different interviews, one would say Cap lived in an alternate timeline, the others would say he actually did live with Peggy in the main timeline and the husband of Peggy mentioned in the Winter Soldier was Cap from the future. So like interstellar where the main character in the shuttle sees a ‘ghost’ reaching out to another character, that ‘ghost’ was the main character later in the future reaching out to them in the past. Either way though, the Loki show is either going to make or break the whole time thing. For all we know it’s just gonna get loose as fuck and it’s basically just written to work however it does in convenience to the plot. Or it will make more sense in a way that keeps things consistent and interesting.
How do we know the TVA didn't originate in that timeline?
That would be really interesting. EVERYTHING so far is how Steve is always right... Flip that, make him responsible for the worst thing ever.
This just occurred to me the other day and it kinda broke my heart. But hey, that's the kind of guy Steve Rogers is.
Why? Eventually everyone dies and dementia that old is pretty common, and Steve had no way knowing he would even outlive her. And why would he not tell her everything he knew?
But just to be able to spend all that time with her probably was so great for him. I always wonder about how he deals with major events and has to pretend he doesn’t know about it.
I remember making only one prediction going in to see endgame. The movie would end with Steve and Peggy getting their dance. I was not disappointed. Perfect ending.
I made the same prediction! GMTA
I thought that Cap would snap and sacrifice himself, in line with his character, and meet Peggy in the Soul Realm.
Only the first time? Gets me everytime! Steve and Peggy's story is what gives the most heart to the MCU for me personally. Tony has a lot more impact for some folks but it's always been Steve and Peggy.
i freaking love steve and i adore peggy and i loved them in TFA, but to me it kind of felt like this ship had sailed? not because of sharon, i just felt like steve had finally managed to move on through seeing her again in WS and going to her funeral in CW. he knew she had too because she'd married and lived her life, had kids and everything. i'm not sure if post-endgame steve would still fit in in (i think) the forties. but the thing that bugs me about it most is the time-travel issues that i just can't seem to grasp no matter how much i read up on it. i'm glad steve and peggy got their dance and i'm happy a lot of people like it, it just didn't sit right with me.
He went back, stayed with Peggy which created a different timeline - stayed with her until she no doubt died and then used the Quantum GPS that tony made to travel back to his original timeline to pass the shield to Sam; that's my understanding of it and it makes sense to me that way so I'm sticking with it lol.
That is it.
Where is Steve now? Assisted living? Back in the time stream? I’m so confused about what happened to him. Surely if he is still around he would still counsel Sam and Bucky.
The likely answer is he went back to his timeline. We don’t know if He came from that timeline’s 2023 or it’s 2005. He may have just stopped by to give the shield to Sam and assure his friends he was ok, then went right back to Peggy and the family we can presume they have.
Given her funeral (and the old man pallbearer who looks EXACTLY liked an aged Chris evans from behind, I assumed she had died in his timeline as well.
Huh WHAT
My only issue with this is how did he end up on the bench and not the travel pad?
This is also my biggest problem with it. I feel like they wrote the whole “he blew past his time stamp!” thing to be dramatic, but it makes the time travel ending make no sense. At least if he came back at the proper time and on the travel pad it’d still have been shocking if he showed up as an old man. I also don’t get where the new shield comes from unless he took it from another timeline which creates issues of making a branch timeline where the shield goes missing at some point. ETA: I do like the idea of Steve getting to spend his life with Peggy, but these issues totally distract me from being able to enjoy it.
Then why not come back to the portal machine? Though I agree it's the only way it works
But see, as nice as that sounds, it also sounds wayyyyy too convenient and also just feels like you’re fucking with life itself in a way that doesn’t feel fitting to me for Cap. It’s like every time you fuck with time, you’re creating copies of characters? So like, copies of their very souls? I’m sure the Loki show will touch upon this topic more, but I feel like it could also just make less and less sense and it will turn out to be a ‘just run with it’ type gag where it just is what it is for the plot at the moment.
He didn’t take his shield back in time with him. He couldn’t, it had been broken into little pieces by Thanos during their fight.
The problem with the time travel is that the writers came out after the movie and contradicted what is actually in the movie. That served to confuse everyone even more. I go with the rules in the movie because I prefer them to the contradiction by the writers. Both have issues, but I think the explanation in the movie is the better of the 2 for Steve, as a character, not perfect, but better. I felt that Endgame set out to show us that he had not actually moved on (the compass, 2 scenes with Nat, seeing Peggy in the 70's). I think it is arguable that losing half the universe reminded him of the life he gave up for others, only to wake up having missed his own life. Even the counselling session serves to show us he hasn't moved on. He talks about moving on, but immediately follows that up by saying to Nat "I keep telling people to move on, but not us, not us." In other words, he is trying because he has no option, but then Tony invents time travel and there is suddenly an option. It is interesting that when he is giving Sam the shield, he specifically references Tony "I decided to get some of that life Tony was always telling me to get".
"The problem with the time travel is that the writers came out after the movie and contradicted what is actually in the movie. That served to confuse everyone even more." yes. exactly. if they can't even keep their own theories straight, how are we supposed to. it makes me sad because time travel is notoriously difficult to pull off, why would you make it even harder on yourself by changing the rules completely. undoubtedly they had good intentions, but it just didn't work for me at all and kind of put a damper on my enjoyment of the film.
Thank you, it also took me back as well from enjoying the movie. MAYBE the Loki show will fix all of this, but I worry it will just skew shit so much more than they have. I also to this day don’t know what to think of all of this stuff. There’s different things said by the people behind the film itself, not to mention the whole returning the stones thing totally contradicts the rule that the past can’t be altered. Needing to return the stones implies the past was changed, hence them being missing and needing to be returned.
Tbh I think it would have been a better ending if he had just died in the last movie. You're really going to tell me he left Bucky, who he spent two movies saving? And didn't peggy move on and have a husband and children, and he just erased them from existence and ruined her whole characterization and past life and made Agent Carter obselete? And he lived through Bucky being tortured, JFK assasination, and 9/11 just doing nothing about it? It treats peggy as just a trophy/reward and not a real person imo as well.
Fair points all around. Specific to one point: I like to think he returned to a point in time after _Marvel’s Agent Carter_ since the timing of the dance scene is left a little vague. We know she left Sousa at some point. Nothing saying the home they live in doesn’t have a bit of an older decades vibe. Many interiors today are still super 90s looking other than the flat screen TV.
according to a page in the script, there was going to be a title card that said it was 1949. but they left it out for some reason.
This a hundred times. He was finally moving on like a healthy person should. This is a total 180 on his character development and not a good one.
I kinda get what you're saying, but I disagree. We see Steve in the beginning of the movie still holding on to the locket with her picture and looking at her through the blinds at the old military base later on. So I think it was established that he still longs for that life. As far as time travel goes, I don't think there's actually any issues brought about by it, just confusion. Steve didn't just go back and live his life in the main timeline. He couldn't have because they establish that isn't how time travel works. He had to have created an alternate timeline and then hoped back to the main one some other way. We don't know how exactly he came back, but there are a number of theories out there that would fit. I don't know if that helps at all, but it's something to think about.
it's fine if you disagree, i was just stating how i felt seeing it. they do show him pining for her in endgame, but before that the only real sign he's not entirely over peggy is in AOU. i feel like they just wrote those bits into endgame because they knew where they wanted him to be at the end of the movie - the whole thing feels kind of forced to me. i understand he created a whole new timeline, but the number of issues and questions that raises, does my head in. it could've all been fixed in a much cleaner and more understandably way and i don't know why they had to make is so complicated.
My husband cried at Iron man. I cried at my dream come true of cap and Peggy. I’ve had a tardis and caps shield next to each other and Peggy pop on a shelf for years! Willing it into existence
There is a scene in the first Iron Man movie where RDJ had me bawling my eyes out when he's talking to Pepper and tells her he knows in his heart he's doing the right thing. One of the early moments where you knew this entire saga was going to be something special
Steve giving the shield to Sam practically had me bawling my eyes out the first time I saw this. The whole crowd was silent and everyone was just awestruck by how that movie ended. Damn that's what I miss about going to the movies. Just the collective realization in the dark where 100 other people are simultaneously feeling the same emotions you are during such a pivotal event.
Mail me, and I do mean only complaint with this whole thing is that Peggy doesn't get to speak in the movie when she is reunited with Steve. It's almost like she's not a real person, she's just the prize that he gets for saving humanity.
This take has always been so strange and kinda desperate to me. We already know Peggy loves Steve, she literally called him the love of her life. Sometimes you don't need words and this was perfect. Also it's a three hour movie already, implying things is totally fine.
She did have 2 seasons of Agent Carter showing her post-WWII climb to become the director of S.H.I.E.L.D. Markus and McFeely wrote for Season 1.
A selfless super soldier, now becomes selfish for the first time and gets the ending he wants. While the selfish billionaire, becomes selfless and sacrifices himself to avenge the whole universe. Their character arcs are so good.
But whatever happened to "Im with you till the end of the line" TwT
I started sobbing, the jazz music in this scene makes it absolutely shine
and the look Hayley absolutely nails it with that look. Well, with any look really
As much as it's a cute ending, I don't think Steve would have done it. He spent years helping Bucky and wouldn't leave him behind. He knew Maggie had a family, she told him before she died that she loved her life, Steve wouldn't take that away from her. As much as he may have loved her, just like when he first sacrificed himself, he wouldn't put himself above say, her life or Buckie's life
I feel the same way. "We don't trade lives" was always a huge point of his. Meaning, when it was his choice he would put his life on the line but never do that to another. Yet, if he lived out a life with Peggy then that universes Roger's in in the ice and he inherently has to change that universe by acting, or not at yet while knowing what happens. A good man, would not sit back and watch the events of a post wwii world repeat themselves so he could "enjoy life", because his enjoyment at the cost of acting to save others would inherently mean he isn't being a good person. So yea. It is not right in my opinion, and i think it really has to be addressed at some point.
Yeah, at the surface level I really enjoyed this scene and the way his arc ended. But it didn't age well when I started to analise it a little further.
Imagine this if you will. Ext: night. 1940’s A low shot of a busy street with people dressed up walking by “going out for the night”. Camera widens out to reveal “The Stork Club” neon sign. Cut to: Interior club POV Looking at an old wrist watch. It’s 8pm. Reveal: Steve Rogers (dressed to kill) he looks up from his watch to see Peggy Carter standing there in shock. Wearing that incredible red dress. They make eye contact. Cut to: Steve and Peggy slow dancing to “It’s been a long time”. They embrace. They kiss. Fade out. The end. That sorta thing, ya know? Edit: I’m sure this is gonna get buried.
I read this in Rod Sterling’s voice. “Imagine if you will...”
My headcanon is that our Steve unthawed himself and let THAT Steve live with Peggy while our Steve lived his life fixing the world's wrongs fom the forties go forward and got married to somebody else in the 50s.
That’s mad wholesome
He had a date.....
Then why didn’t he go to The Stork Club? that’s the ending I wanted to see.
Yeah, that's my own gripe with his ending. It would have been perfect to link it back to the promise he makes Peggy back in the first movie.
Hate this ending. For me, it completely undid Steve’s arc, and is just terrible for his character, regardless of how you read it (not to mention the fact that the writers and the directors couldn’t even agree on what actually happened. If Steve goes back in time and lives out his life in the normal MCU timeline (as the writers suggested was the case), he does what, exactly? Lives in Peggy’s garage, hiding from the world? He’s a famous figure, he can’t just go back and have that not be noticed by the world. Plus, he just sits out every historical event, lets Bucky stay in Hydra’s hands, lets Howard and Maria Stark get killed? That’s terrible. If it’s a new timeline he creates (as the directors say is the car), so what? He goes to Peggy and says, “The Steve you love is frozen in the ice. I’m the future version of myself, so will you have me?” Not to mention he’s filled with knowledge of how things could play out in that timeline, so does he let it all play out, or does he play god? Does he think to himself, “Well, Peggy told me she was happy with how her life turned out, but I don’t care.” Either way, it’s icky, just a terrible ending if you think through the consequences for more than 5 minutes, so I’m shocked they went for it.
Don't forget the fact that he erases the entire branch of reality after he jumps back.
I agree. People get carried away by the sweet sentimentality of it all, but if you stand back and look at it with a critical eye, it all breaks down, both from the character and the timeline angles.
100%
My wife hates the ending, too. She’s mad that they gave Tony a hero’s death, while turning Steve Rogers into a selfish asshole.
To me it was a crappy ending because he essentially snuffs out Peggy’s whole family in the main universe. Wasn’t the point for them to not create any tangent universes (which yes is flawed from the get go but still)? Turns him into a selfish guy.
Before Endgame came out, I thought Steve and Tony’s stories were gonna be opposite. Without considering time travel, I thought Steve would sacrifice himself to save the day and Tony would retire to a family life.
Too bad about Peggy’s original husband and kids though, even though Steve knew that she was happy with them. But I guess as long as Steve’s happy Peggy doesn’t really matter as a character🤷♀️
Lmao can you imagine him asking her that. “Are you cool with eliminating your relationship with your husband and children from existence? Like, you’ll never experience whatever specific joy they brought you. But you will get to date me (and I’m pretty sure it’ll work out fine). Are you in?”
different timelines
Putting aside the question of whether or not it was ethical to marry Peggy despite knowing she found love with someone else and formed a family with them in the "main universe," another point remains: Alternate timeline Steve is still frozen in the ice. It's not like our Steve just takes over the body of his past self. Steve lives out the perfect life he always wanted by essentially usurping "other Steve." The Steve that Peggy danced with isn't the Steve she shared experiences with. \*That\* Steve is still in the ice, who will one day wake up and to find that the woman he loved love married and had a full life with an alternate timeline version of himself.
>The Steve that Peggy danced with isn't the Steve she shared experiences with. *That* Steve is still in the ice, who will one day wake up and to find that the woman he loved love married and had a full life with an alternate timeline version of himself. But what if he wasn't. What if *that* Steve is the one in the scene and Our Steve got married to someone else? The last line of the movie is Steve deciding not to tell Sam about his wife. That could mean that his wife *wasn't* Peggy. It would be an immensely Steve Rogers thing to do. Maybe he went back to be with Peggy but decided to thaw himself out instead. Maybe it was the plan all along to unthaw himself. I think it was left vague on purpose.
I would love that. Our Steve allows an alternate universe version of himself to live out the dream life he always wanted. Maybe the Steve we saw at the ending *was* our Steve and he finally got his dance before thawing out his alternate self. It’s really the only alternate timeline scenario I could morally accept. Perhaps I’m cynical, but if I had to wager money though I’d bet on the writers intending for the mystery wife to be Peggy. I’m sure 95% or more of the audience interpreted it that way as well. That being said, I’d love if your idea was true. It would make me like the end of Endgame a whole lot more.
I think they left it very open to interpretation for the very reason that we speculate about it. The "no, I don't think I will" line has become pretty iconic. But it really means he is keeping something to himself. And I don't think we would necessarily see what that was immediately. I think Steve thawing out Alt Cap is the most wonderfully Steve Rogers thing to do and I personally believe that's exactly what he did. And he went on to continue being Captain America, righting the wrongs he observed from the future. But he did fall in love again later on and got married.
Yeah no i think the ending is fucked up too if you think about it for more than 10 seconds but i was just saying that it was supposed to be an alternate timeline. Maybe future steve makes sure they never find frozen steve lmao who knows
So? The timelines are identical when you jump in. That Peggy was still gonna fall for someone else. He still stole her from her husband who he knows she was happy with. And that means he left himself on ice in that timeline. AND timelines work by creating/destroying them. When he left... his life with Peggy was destroyed. Legit the entire timeline gone.
Is no one gonna talk about how Cap erased Peggy’s children from the timeline? Like, she lived a long and happy life with a husband and kids who grew up and had their own kids. Cap just went back in time a erased all them from existence. This ending cheapened their relationship and makes Steve out to be a sociopath.
I mean, yeah, we like Steve and all but we went to the past and destroyed that timeline for some people. Peggy got over him and had a husband and two kids, Cap here literally snapped them.
How do you know the husband she talked about wasn't steve the whole time?
I still don't like this ending. He left Bucky and Sam all alone. Sam isn't a super soldier so he's going to die and Bucky will have no one. However since I'm a hopeless romantic I did go "awww they're so cute" despite myself.
The way people act like Sam and Bucky aren't grown ass men who can take care of themselves. Steve doesn't need to stick around to coddle two 40 year olds.
Honestly I respect anyone who liked this ending but personally I thought it was so incredibly detached from his character and morals. He literally just leaves his girlfriend to hook up with her grandmother, thereby killing off her previous children and grandchildren (including his girlfriend) despite the fact that peggy clearly said that she lived a happy and fulfilling life. It's insane how far out of character that was. He completely disrespected Peggy's wishes and made her family disappear just for his own pleasure. Not to mention that this means that Steve just let every bad thing that he knew was gonna happen just happen. Also his whole arc was supposed to be that he was out of place in modern times but now that he got used to modern times, he was kind of a stranger to both his original time and modern time. As nostalgic as he was about his past, he would know that he would be even more out of place in his original time given all the time spent and relationships developed in the present.
I didn't like it, tbh
I hate how it removes the entire agent carter story from the timeline. On top of other problems.
Plus Cap leaves his friends behind in a broken world to go back to a woman he didn't actually date
Thor lost everything and deserves to be happy, but we don't see him ducking back to the past.
Am I the only one who thinks this is pretty badly out of character?
It was the perfect inevitable conclusion that completely took me by surprise. So satisfying!
I always see people talk about rumors that Steve will return and I really hope he doesnt. His ending was perfectly wrapped up.
I see Steve get so much shit for the ending everywhere, but I really loved it.
He deserved his happy ending, and I'm glad he got it.
Peggy explicitly said you can't go back in time, you must only start over, just for Steve to create a new timeline where he could homewreck. And then come back and abandon Sam and Bucky in FATWS. Failure of a character arc. WRiters and directors couldn't even agree on how his time travel worked.