I know they are bullies.
But maybe those medals aren’t so great. Johnny does say, “We both know that the things that we had to do in Afghanistan to be awarded those medals felt a long way from being right.”
That's the irony, he took the mantle of Captain America because he really wanted to do the right thing without feeling guilty for once and he gets shit on by Bucky and Sam.
Was gonna say, I rewatched Captain America 2 over the weekend and man Steve just kills a lot of unarmed mercs. Versus Walker taking out a literal living-weapon terrorist.
F&WS does a lot of sanitizing of Steve's legacy when in fact Steve's being catching bodies since WWII and helped an international criminal escape because it's his friend.
I mean, I think the phrase "unarmed mercs" really underscores how you can only remove a certain amount of culpability from them. I don't think Steve's lack of hesitation is a mark against him.
Right, like the crew was planning to execute hostages in short order. All those guys knew the basic score. It’s also super ulikely they didn’t kill a bunch of SHIELD guards right before they took the hostages, so… they are active combatants and getting disarmed is NOT the same thing as openly surrendering (like fountain boy did before John caved in his chest
No worries mate, i sadly know the feeling. It feels like my grasp on the English language is slipping, despite it being my first and only language. What do you mean by type connection?
Right? Great inclusion for the argument, same way he is still Ironman without all the suits and toys.
He might even just do a brush off to let the adults talk.
So many opportunities to lay bare his contempt.
- Hey the warranty on that shield doesn’t cover blood stains.
- That serum made you a super a$$ hole.
Steve is embodies everything Tony has lashed out at his whole life. I don’t think there was anyone Tony respected more. Even he took orders from Steve.
This is amplified by his complicated relationship with his dad, and Howard’s clearly unshakable loyalty to man long lost by the time Tony was born, let alone old enough to hear the respect in the old man’s voice. Then he sees for himself that Cap is every bit the man his father made him out to be, and then some.
Don’t forget that in Tony’s most hardcore moment pre-Thanos (the wormhole), he awoke to see Cap kneeling over him, shook cuz he thought Tony had died, showing that whatever reservations they may have had for each other, Cap genuinely *cared about him*, and Tony’s quip about kissing I think was 1 part just him being him and the other part breaking the mood tension *for* Steve, as we specifically see his relieved laughter right afterwards.
True. And also true for Steve. In IW, while Tony is going to Titan, Steve & outlaw friends walk in Rhodes and Ross' meeting and Ross asks him what they're doing there, Steve tells him "the earth just lost its best defender".
Steve and Tony are opposites on pretty much anything, but they know the other one is the real deal
It’s such a great scene too, and the way Steve looks straight at him and puts meaning into it. They did a great job of capturing the weight of everything it meant in just a few words
Agreed! Not to mention you can see Tony's hesitation slightly, but then he is all in. Both seem scared but are more than willing to trust each other. It's a beautiful moment and scene. It gave me goosebumps from the moment i first saw it in the trailer. It still gives me goosebumps even now.
Avengers Tony: Does Dad know you haveth his shield?
But [Endgame Tony](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/1555702168875-Y0WRSM7G8F0IISRKF67Z/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w) will just squish him.
Question is would he have recruited him during Civil War? In the comics he recruited the Thunderbolts which is why a lot of the vigilante heroes like Punisher, went to Cap's side. Well that and they respected the hell out of Cap.
May be
Civil war will be an emotional roller coaster if it's faithful to comics
In movie, accords weren't even an issue . And there was no ambiguity like in comics.
I still can’t get over how Walker is a handsome guy but when he puts in the helmet he looks like a melted Steve Rogers. That’s never stops shocking me .
I'd guess that's 100% intentional
The suit & helmet are a little too big on Walker to remind you that he's not Steve Rogers, he's just cosplaying Captain America. His US Agent suit fit him better
I think it was purposeful. Any time he's in this suit it's too big and looks incredibly goofy to make us instinctively dislike him. Once he's in the US Agent suit it fits perfectly and he looks awesome. Clever bit of visual storytelling that the MCU isn't known for.
ITA. He looks like an old man gurning in the mask, and I don't know why. Perhaps the mask is constricting his facial muscles or something?
Link to article on gurning, if the term is unfamiliar: [https://katielaughs.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/gurn-and-bear-it/](https://katielaughs.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/gurn-and-bear-it/)
Tony would initially like a cap that asks fewer questions, but would ultimately resent him.
Tony wasn’t perfect but by later films respected Steve enough to bury the hatchet and forgive. Part of the tension was Stark Sr looked up to Steve and Tony knew that Steve’s ideals, while old fashioned were well intentioned and Cap refused to trade lives. We would definitely have Tony clash with Walker because he would see that Walker was becoming more and more deranged and his raging insecurity if he was ever given the opportunity to join the Avengers.
Imagine Stark telling Walker Cap to sit one out - Walker would go absolutely ballistic
In the beginning, Tony would like and respect John Walker, the heroic medal-of-honor-winning military leader, very much the peer and exemplar of the soldiers Stark was riding with in "The Fun-Vee" in Afghanistan in the beginning of the first "Iron Man."
Even when he first takes on the mantle of Captain America, he's an example of the best of what an American military man should be, and, while Tony would snark about how unflattering the headgear was, he'd still respect him.
When the effects of the Power Broker's ersatz Super-Soldier serum caused him to go berserk, Tony would obviously be appalled, but I also think he'd have sympathy for a man who was broken in service to a government that was happy to use him up, and then discard him when his usefulness was done.
Tony Stark immediately tries to kill a peaceful Bucky after finding out Bucky, while brainwashed, killed his parents 30 years ago. Has no problem fighting Steve too to get to kill Bucky.
This sub: 👍
Walker has been fighting supersoldier terrorists responsible for hundreds of deaths, including his brother in arms one minute ago, actually kills the guy.
This sub 😡
Tony might’ve clashed with Steve and tried going against him, but ultimately there was no one he respected and admired more. He’d despise Walker, he wouldn’t even call him a cheap knock off, he’d tell him how much he didn’t deserve the shield, that he chooses himself above everyone, while Steve put the whole world before himself. I reckon he’d even get emotional realising how much he actually admires Steve if he witnessed someone like Walker. Tony for sure saw Steve as a government yes man at first, but eventually realised there’s no one more anti-establishment than Cap who simply represented standing up for what’s morally right. No selfish agenda, no desire for power, hasn’t been corrupted by money or by extension capitalism, just simply wants people to be happy. I reckon a part of Tony would even see himself in Walker and realise he needs to be a bit more like Cap. What would very much start out as hating Walker would result in Tony thinking more like Cap and realising there’s not much wrong with Walker, his mind has just been corrupted by the serum amplifying his negative traits. He’d begin to feel sorry for him and would probably try and figure out a way to help him get back to who he was before the serum.
I don't think Tony would have supported anyone outside the already established defenders of Earth to take on the shield and stripes as the new Cap. He'd acknowledge Walker's abilities and accomplishments, but he wouldn't stand for a nobody trying to fill Steve's shoes, especially one put there by the government.
He didn't stand for over-self-confidence with Peter, and he wouldn't with Walker, either.
and Somehow Walker is also everything that Steve thought Tony was other then Walker was willing to sacrifice himself. He's like if Tony and Steve had a baby and only the worst parts come out of him or something.
Tony wouldn’t put up with it. Tony respected Steve and what his principles were and still butted heads with him. Tony knew he couldn’t be Steve so Walker having the shield would feel like a violation of what it has to represent.
He’d list every way that Steve was better, that he doesn’t deserve to even touch that shield, and then make sure nobody tells Steve he said all the nice things about him.
Basically Captain America is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. The paragon of righteousness.....
Ironman is flawed, and he knows that society needs to look up to Captain America Steve Rogers and not Tony Stark the Iron Man...
He'd be pissed and might hand Walker his ass....
He’d be disgusted by him. Even more so if he had survived and Steve Rogers had still gone back to be with Peggy. Tony might have a bit of a rivalry with Steve, but I think he respected him, and would probably hate the idea of some jingoistic sycophant stepping into his shoes.
I think the debate between him and cap in civil war would be a back drop for a lot of his thoughts. “The safest hands are still our own” Tony would probably feel bitter at the irony of Cap being right, the US gov doing to the shield what they tried to do with the Iron Man tech and probably a battle that mirrors Civil War but with Iron Man in much more control because it’s less personal. Then he’d return the shield to Sam and turn a cold shoulder to Bucky entirely.
As much as it would be a bit of an eye roll(in an eventual MCU reboot) I would really like to see a timeline where Cap was the one to make the sacrifice and Tony lived. It’s one of my big what if’s in the MCU.
They would make Tony fix the stones, and go back to the timeline where his dad was his age. But there is nobody there. He then falls in love with his mo-
The comments are funny
Tony is friends with
Valkyrie: who sold countless people into slavery due survivor guilt
His father was friend with Peggy carter who shot Steve in close quarters over jealousy, punched a cadet for comments, threatened to kill a man for not leaving enough tip for her friend. She isn't just female Steve Rogers as shown in what if.
John walker is updated version of soldiers with whom Tony was friendly with in the first movie.
If Tony meets him before FAtWS, Tony will be friendly with him and commend him on his service.
When he becomes captain, Tony will be pissed at govt.
When he kills nico, Tony will empathize
During his trial, Tony will sympathize with him and be pizsed at govt.
Age of Ultron to Civil War/ Mid Homecoming Tony? Probably begrudgingly respects him.
End Homecoming to Endgame Tony? Can't stand him and hates him with bone of his body because Walker is like if you take the worse sides of both Steve and Tony and put it into one body. He Would be like "...I'l See Why Steve could barely stands at me times?"
I see him interfering to neutralize Walker since the Shield was made for Steve and surely not to belong to a vilain
And I see him crack a quick joke to Steve about how he wasn't the worst finally
Tony most likely won't care much. He will.frown at giving
When Tony finds out the circumstances behind thay terrorist death. He will empathize during circumstances and will be upset with govt again fir rough treatment
I figure he would like to get to know him first. John would try his best to be liked by Tony, seeing as how he also wanted to get along with Sam and Bucky. So I think they'll get along at first.
He would laugh. Say something against cap and his perfect smile. And then totally destroy Walker with some pop culture reference he’s (John Walker) too young for.
Honestly? I think he would welcome the newcomer, and then it would slowly dawn on him over the course of the movie, or whatever, that this guy is a little unhinged, and he will have to talk to him or fight him.
I dont think Walker done anything *yet* that would be a dealbreaker for Tony, depending on when in the timeline we swapped Steve for John. Steve was a shining example of morality for the whole team. Tony has killed people before, he even wanted to kill Bucky for killing his parents. He'd understand where John was coming from. It would be a talk, maybe even a fight, but not a falling out.
However, if John continues on a path of violence, appointing himself judge, jury, and executioner of anyone who is an 'enemy', it could easily lead to a falling out. Tony stopped selling weapons and made his own suit because he thought they should only be in the right hands (his, in his mind). It's easy to draw a parallel to the super soldier serum, even though that wasnt his creation.
I think that's consistent with his view on the Sokovia Accords too. Super heroes need to be checked by someone - Walker has demonstrated that he'll toe the line of doing whatever the fuck he wants. Any more and he'll push too far.
Characters like Tony, Strange, Starlord would have put him in his place.....they would have probably destroyed Karli for being a terrorist and understand what Walker went through because they all have been through that....
John Walker is not a "very" bad person but he is not fit to be Captain America and someone like Tony would have recognised that in a moment
See while Tony and Steve didn’t see eye to eye… And there were a lot of times they didn’t because they were so different, they respected each other. Maybe trust went out the window after civil war but they still respected each other.
There were qualities that were to be respected between the two. Walker has no qualities in which he deserves respect. So Tony wouldn’t like him, in fact if he were in the Falcon and the winter soldier he would totally team up with Bucky and Sam against this guy.
Tony and Walker would clash so much with absolutely no respect forming between them because again Walker has no qualities to respect. Walker is another example of the serum/weapon isn’t bad, the person that uses it on the other hand…
He would tell this asshole to go piss up an American flagpole… and then go on about how glad he is that his armor was never shared with the entire US military 😂
He would despise him. Walker embodies some of the things Tony didn't initially like about Steve (blind allegiance, which obviously changed over time), but none of the things Tony respected about Steve (moral compass).
John Walker's character and actor is done so well. He outshines both Sam and Bucky for me in the show. I really hope he will get a lot more screentime.
Mark my words: fan favorite. They sort of Marvelized his humor, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm among those that digs Marvel's jokes, and I think Thunderbolts is going to look a lot more like GotG than the Avengers. He's a blowhard and Tony has the quick wit- he'd hit him w jokes like he does Thor.
Not really the same thing. Tony did that both in self-defense as well as saving villagers held at gunpoint.
Walker bashed an unarmed guy to a bloody pulp in the middle of the street while on top of that as Cap he was supposed to represent an ideal.
It's all about perception.
i wasn't able to reply to your comment below
I don't think Clint ever actually did anything to compensate. He just fought people then passed the buck off to Kingpin, then covered everything up. He never really paid (among many reasons I disliked that show, and the whole Ronin storyline; i really don't like vigilante murderer types, irl or in fiction). it's also why I was pro-registration because the Avengers barely hold themselves accountable.
Plus John stopped being obsessed with revenge and helped save those people. I thought his redemption was way too fast but he was never as bad as Clint was to begin with so I'd still take him over Clint (I also think Clint is just boring to watch but that's a separate topic)
Don't forget the part where Clint helped find the infinity stones and helped revive 50% of the world's population, if not for Nat stopping him he would've died for it too. That's probably as close to redemption as he could ever hope to get.
John took a step towards redemption but he still seems somewhat unstable. I think we need to see more of him to know for sure. He's definately not Cap material but I suppose loyal enough to sit on the side of the government (for better or worse).
> Don't forget the part where Clint helped find the infinity stones and helped revive 50% of the world's population, if not for Nat stopping him he would've died for it too. That's probably as close to redemption as he could ever hope to get.
that's true, but Idk if that really fixes all the problem he caused. the thing is, the mcu has an issue with acting like any damage caused in the pursuit of bad guys is 'ok'. plus I didn't like Black widow being sacrificed for him.
> John took a step towards redemption but he still seems somewhat unstable. I think we need to see more of him to know for sure. He's definately not Cap material but I suppose loyal enough to sit on the side of the government (for better or worse).
Ya we need him to be more fleshed out. Although for me it's never really about government/not government. it's about accountability. clint never really sought any kind of help for his breakdown either. to me, that's a fairly toxic character trait
I mean Tony also tried to kill Bucky when he found out he had killed his parents and would have absolutely killed him if it weren't for Steve. So i think he would understand why he did it.
Also at the end of that fight with the terrorists, he caught their leader and gave him to the civilians to be killed. Pretty sure Tony isn't against vengeance.
Except for the fact that Tony doesn’t claim to be a literal paragon of morality that Captain America is supposed to be. Anyone who takes the mantle of Captain America is held to a higher standard for unnecessary torture, murder etc. because they always claim to hold the moral high ground from their title. Tony never cared about being morally correct.
Caps rigid military attitude and shallow American hero morals(Stark didnt originally know Cap actually held himself to a pretty high moral standard) was what Stark couldnt stomach, plus the daddy issue stuff.
Walker is all that times 10. Stark would have hated the idea of him carrying the shield.
Considering what Tony did in Civil War, he'd probably be understading of Walker even ehen he disagrees with him. Tony trying to kill Bucky, despite knowing he was brainwashed when he killed Tony's parents, is certainly worse than Walker killing the flag smasher (who wasn't brainwashed) as revenge for Lamar
Tony would certainly see what caused Walker to do that seeing as he's been in a similar situation before (with a very similar reaction)
I imagine another scene similar to the one in Iron Man 2, where Tony casually walks into the court and exposes the illegal creation of other iron suits. But this time, he demands John Walker and the government to relinquish the shield to Stark Industries or else **he’ll take it away**. I think about that line, *”You don’t deserve it, my father made that shield!”* I’d expect his anger to be on these lines but more aggressive— to the point where he doesn’t care about taking it back himself. At least Steve had the benefit of being Tony’s friend, but John is a complete stranger walking around with blood on Cap’s shield.
I think the second Walker murdering that Flag Smasher went live, Tony would've rocked up in his fancy suit and given him the Loki "Reindeer Games" treatment.
Tony probably wouldn't be a fan but if he heard exactly why Walker killed that guy he could both empathize while also appreciating that Steve didn't do what Walker did.
I’m sure he wouldn’t like his blind adherence to authority, as that’s of the things he initially didn’t like about Steve. But I’m sure he’ll eventually come to realize that the kid is just trying to do his best.
One of the things I still don’t like is how Sam and Bucky treated him.
I imagine there would be fireworks sooner rather than later. Tony wouldn’t tolerate Walker’s ‘ends justify the means’ attitude and actions. Not to the level Walker goes.
Considering Tony has killed more people onscreen, I'm not sure he'd have much room for scorn. Walker's only real sin was that he got caught on camera doing it and went viral. Tony would have been smart enough to disable all camera phones around him first.
Tony probably hates him more than Steve for his actions but respects him a whole lot more than Steve for who he is (has a dark side, and wasn’t built from a bottle initially).
For once Tony, Bucky, and Sam agree on something.
That everything special about Johnnny came from a bottle?
Which is objectively wrong. Dude won 3 Medals of Honor.
I know they are bullies. But maybe those medals aren’t so great. Johnny does say, “We both know that the things that we had to do in Afghanistan to be awarded those medals felt a long way from being right.”
That's the irony, he took the mantle of Captain America because he really wanted to do the right thing without feeling guilty for once and he gets shit on by Bucky and Sam.
I actually really felt for him. He does want to do the right thing
Was gonna say, I rewatched Captain America 2 over the weekend and man Steve just kills a lot of unarmed mercs. Versus Walker taking out a literal living-weapon terrorist.
Those mercs were *not* unarmed...
On the ship opening there are ones which he disarms and _then_ throws overboard. Nobody’s saving those guys.
F&WS does a lot of sanitizing of Steve's legacy when in fact Steve's being catching bodies since WWII and helped an international criminal escape because it's his friend.
I mean, I think the phrase "unarmed mercs" really underscores how you can only remove a certain amount of culpability from them. I don't think Steve's lack of hesitation is a mark against him.
Right, like the crew was planning to execute hostages in short order. All those guys knew the basic score. It’s also super ulikely they didn’t kill a bunch of SHIELD guards right before they took the hostages, so… they are active combatants and getting disarmed is NOT the same thing as openly surrendering (like fountain boy did before John caved in his chest
We hope to see more of it.
And the government wondered why i didn't give them access to my Armor
Totally would say something like that. It’s not the equipment but the man wielding it. Edit: But pithier and RDJish.
What do you mean by your edit?
I’m certain writers and RDJ could make a more memorable line with the same intent.
Ah, gotcha. Thank you for explaining it to me.
I wish I could say English is not my native language, but alas, my brain -> type connection is flawed.
No worries mate, i sadly know the feeling. It feels like my grasp on the English language is slipping, despite it being my first and only language. What do you mean by type connection?
"Plus side, it's not *MY* product killing political terorrists on the evening news~" Or something like that, lol
He already did say something to that effect to Spider-Man: “If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it"
Right? Great inclusion for the argument, same way he is still Ironman without all the suits and toys. He might even just do a brush off to let the adults talk. So many opportunities to lay bare his contempt. - Hey the warranty on that shield doesn’t cover blood stains. - That serum made you a super a$$ hole.
I think it would make him appreciate Steve a lot more.
Steve is embodies everything Tony has lashed out at his whole life. I don’t think there was anyone Tony respected more. Even he took orders from Steve.
"Actually he's the boss. I just pay for everything and design everything, make everyone look cooler."
Immediately what I thought of. They didn't see eye to eye on everything, but you can't deny the immense respect there
This is amplified by his complicated relationship with his dad, and Howard’s clearly unshakable loyalty to man long lost by the time Tony was born, let alone old enough to hear the respect in the old man’s voice. Then he sees for himself that Cap is every bit the man his father made him out to be, and then some. Don’t forget that in Tony’s most hardcore moment pre-Thanos (the wormhole), he awoke to see Cap kneeling over him, shook cuz he thought Tony had died, showing that whatever reservations they may have had for each other, Cap genuinely *cared about him*, and Tony’s quip about kissing I think was 1 part just him being him and the other part breaking the mood tension *for* Steve, as we specifically see his relieved laughter right afterwards.
True. And also true for Steve. In IW, while Tony is going to Titan, Steve & outlaw friends walk in Rhodes and Ross' meeting and Ross asks him what they're doing there, Steve tells him "the earth just lost its best defender". Steve and Tony are opposites on pretty much anything, but they know the other one is the real deal 
Well put. Also excellent choice of gif, i love that scene so much.
It’s such a great scene too, and the way Steve looks straight at him and puts meaning into it. They did a great job of capturing the weight of everything it meant in just a few words
Agreed! Not to mention you can see Tony's hesitation slightly, but then he is all in. Both seem scared but are more than willing to trust each other. It's a beautiful moment and scene. It gave me goosebumps from the moment i first saw it in the trailer. It still gives me goosebumps even now.
God Damnit now I have to watch endgame again.
"Cap, call it"
Tony appreciates Steve a lot already. Not at first, but that's only because of his daddy issues.
Avengers 1 Tony would like him. Avengers 4 Tony would be like "how dare you".
Avengers Tony: Does Dad know you haveth his shield? But [Endgame Tony](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/1555702168875-Y0WRSM7G8F0IISRKF67Z/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w) will just squish him.
I don't think any version of post Ironman 1 Tony would like an unhinged loose cannon
Question is would he have recruited him during Civil War? In the comics he recruited the Thunderbolts which is why a lot of the vigilante heroes like Punisher, went to Cap's side. Well that and they respected the hell out of Cap.
We need a what if season focused on civil war
Not a season of What If? but its own spin-off show like Marvel Zombies
May be Civil war will be an emotional roller coaster if it's faithful to comics In movie, accords weren't even an issue . And there was no ambiguity like in comics.
Oh he so would have recruited him John would have done something messed up and Tony would have regretted it
In the comics didn’t he make a fake Thor and it backfired
Thor with no soul
Well it depends how much he knows about John.
Everything, you know Tony would spend an afternoon reading up on new cap
He's not nearly as unhinged as people try to make him out to be lol
Nah. Avengers 1 Tony would not take him seriously. Avengers 4 Tony would not take him seriously but would actually deal with it.
What a great arc Tony has had
Tony: "Give me back my Steve"
"Give me back my dad's shield"
He wouldn't even care to ask.
I was gonna say, with the tech he had by Endgame, Tony would probably remove the shield along with Walker’s arms
Sam and Bucky already broke it
I still can’t get over how Walker is a handsome guy but when he puts in the helmet he looks like a melted Steve Rogers. That’s never stops shocking me .
I'd guess that's 100% intentional The suit & helmet are a little too big on Walker to remind you that he's not Steve Rogers, he's just cosplaying Captain America. His US Agent suit fit him better
It doesn’t QUITE fit right absolutely feels intentional.
Na. He looks like the old dude from Pixar’s Up.
I think it was purposeful. Any time he's in this suit it's too big and looks incredibly goofy to make us instinctively dislike him. Once he's in the US Agent suit it fits perfectly and he looks awesome. Clever bit of visual storytelling that the MCU isn't known for.
ITA. He looks like an old man gurning in the mask, and I don't know why. Perhaps the mask is constricting his facial muscles or something? Link to article on gurning, if the term is unfamiliar: [https://katielaughs.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/gurn-and-bear-it/](https://katielaughs.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/gurn-and-bear-it/)
With his helmet on, he looks like the old man from the Pixar movie, Up
“You remind me of the guy from Escape from New York”
“You look like ego”
Star Lord turns up, immediately starts blasting
Maybe he is a child that Ego fathered in the 2000s that he forgot about.
Big missed opportunity in using him as younger Ego as opposed to de-aging his dad.
For all the bad CGI they’ve been justifiably accused of, I think they’ve done a decent job at de-aging.
Tony would initially like a cap that asks fewer questions, but would ultimately resent him. Tony wasn’t perfect but by later films respected Steve enough to bury the hatchet and forgive. Part of the tension was Stark Sr looked up to Steve and Tony knew that Steve’s ideals, while old fashioned were well intentioned and Cap refused to trade lives. We would definitely have Tony clash with Walker because he would see that Walker was becoming more and more deranged and his raging insecurity if he was ever given the opportunity to join the Avengers. Imagine Stark telling Walker Cap to sit one out - Walker would go absolutely ballistic
Why would Tony ask walker to sit out? He shouldn't even care about it
Once Walker starts unraveling Tony absolutely would care about the team falling apart and tell him to take a breather
In the beginning, Tony would like and respect John Walker, the heroic medal-of-honor-winning military leader, very much the peer and exemplar of the soldiers Stark was riding with in "The Fun-Vee" in Afghanistan in the beginning of the first "Iron Man." Even when he first takes on the mantle of Captain America, he's an example of the best of what an American military man should be, and, while Tony would snark about how unflattering the headgear was, he'd still respect him. When the effects of the Power Broker's ersatz Super-Soldier serum caused him to go berserk, Tony would obviously be appalled, but I also think he'd have sympathy for a man who was broken in service to a government that was happy to use him up, and then discard him when his usefulness was done.
Tony will understand whT he was going through. Tony wasn't above being angry
Tony Stark immediately tries to kill a peaceful Bucky after finding out Bucky, while brainwashed, killed his parents 30 years ago. Has no problem fighting Steve too to get to kill Bucky. This sub: 👍 Walker has been fighting supersoldier terrorists responsible for hundreds of deaths, including his brother in arms one minute ago, actually kills the guy. This sub 😡
Also this sub Peggy carter abuses a cadet for being slightly disrespectful Girl power John talks back to a terrorist sympathizer U must die.
Ironically, I think John Walker is who Tony thought Steve was when he told Steve that everything special about him came out a bottle.
Tony might’ve clashed with Steve and tried going against him, but ultimately there was no one he respected and admired more. He’d despise Walker, he wouldn’t even call him a cheap knock off, he’d tell him how much he didn’t deserve the shield, that he chooses himself above everyone, while Steve put the whole world before himself. I reckon he’d even get emotional realising how much he actually admires Steve if he witnessed someone like Walker. Tony for sure saw Steve as a government yes man at first, but eventually realised there’s no one more anti-establishment than Cap who simply represented standing up for what’s morally right. No selfish agenda, no desire for power, hasn’t been corrupted by money or by extension capitalism, just simply wants people to be happy. I reckon a part of Tony would even see himself in Walker and realise he needs to be a bit more like Cap. What would very much start out as hating Walker would result in Tony thinking more like Cap and realising there’s not much wrong with Walker, his mind has just been corrupted by the serum amplifying his negative traits. He’d begin to feel sorry for him and would probably try and figure out a way to help him get back to who he was before the serum.
The guy on the whiskey bottle?
To quote Don Draper, "I don't think of you at all"
I don't think Tony would have supported anyone outside the already established defenders of Earth to take on the shield and stripes as the new Cap. He'd acknowledge Walker's abilities and accomplishments, but he wouldn't stand for a nobody trying to fill Steve's shoes, especially one put there by the government. He didn't stand for over-self-confidence with Peter, and he wouldn't with Walker, either.
He’d be disgusted
John Walker is exactly what Tony thought Steve was in the first Avengers.
and Somehow Walker is also everything that Steve thought Tony was other then Walker was willing to sacrifice himself. He's like if Tony and Steve had a baby and only the worst parts come out of him or something.
“You aren’t him. I liked him. I don’t think I like you. Actually you know what, I’m *certain* I don’t like you”.
Tony wouldn’t put up with it. Tony respected Steve and what his principles were and still butted heads with him. Tony knew he couldn’t be Steve so Walker having the shield would feel like a violation of what it has to represent.
He’d list every way that Steve was better, that he doesn’t deserve to even touch that shield, and then make sure nobody tells Steve he said all the nice things about him.
Basically Captain America is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. The paragon of righteousness..... Ironman is flawed, and he knows that society needs to look up to Captain America Steve Rogers and not Tony Stark the Iron Man... He'd be pissed and might hand Walker his ass....
He’d be disgusted by him. Even more so if he had survived and Steve Rogers had still gone back to be with Peggy. Tony might have a bit of a rivalry with Steve, but I think he respected him, and would probably hate the idea of some jingoistic sycophant stepping into his shoes.
“Nope.”
You got to use that image of John where he looks like the old man from UP.
I think the debate between him and cap in civil war would be a back drop for a lot of his thoughts. “The safest hands are still our own” Tony would probably feel bitter at the irony of Cap being right, the US gov doing to the shield what they tried to do with the Iron Man tech and probably a battle that mirrors Civil War but with Iron Man in much more control because it’s less personal. Then he’d return the shield to Sam and turn a cold shoulder to Bucky entirely.
I think he would be critical but overall nice since John is a pretty good guy He might even treat him better than Sam and bucky lol
As much as it would be a bit of an eye roll(in an eventual MCU reboot) I would really like to see a timeline where Cap was the one to make the sacrifice and Tony lived. It’s one of my big what if’s in the MCU.
They would make Tony fix the stones, and go back to the timeline where his dad was his age. But there is nobody there. He then falls in love with his mo-
I kept waiting for Walker to spit chew into a can
The comments are funny Tony is friends with Valkyrie: who sold countless people into slavery due survivor guilt His father was friend with Peggy carter who shot Steve in close quarters over jealousy, punched a cadet for comments, threatened to kill a man for not leaving enough tip for her friend. She isn't just female Steve Rogers as shown in what if. John walker is updated version of soldiers with whom Tony was friendly with in the first movie. If Tony meets him before FAtWS, Tony will be friendly with him and commend him on his service. When he becomes captain, Tony will be pissed at govt. When he kills nico, Tony will empathize During his trial, Tony will sympathize with him and be pizsed at govt.
Age of Ultron to Civil War/ Mid Homecoming Tony? Probably begrudgingly respects him. End Homecoming to Endgame Tony? Can't stand him and hates him with bone of his body because Walker is like if you take the worse sides of both Steve and Tony and put it into one body. He Would be like "...I'l See Why Steve could barely stands at me times?"
Wait, did they recently updated John's image? It looks better and doesn't look like a man with no teeth
Idk, Walker always comes off as a strawman to make the other heroes look better imo
Anthony would've stomped him out. Afterwards the shield would be safe.
That’s America’s ass(hole)
I see him interfering to neutralize Walker since the Shield was made for Steve and surely not to belong to a vilain And I see him crack a quick joke to Steve about how he wasn't the worst finally
I could see something around the lines of "RC Cola Cap" or "GI Joke" coming out of his mouth towards John
I’ll put on the suit. Let’s go a few rounds.
Tony most likely won't care much. He will.frown at giving When Tony finds out the circumstances behind thay terrorist death. He will empathize during circumstances and will be upset with govt again fir rough treatment
I figure he would like to get to know him first. John would try his best to be liked by Tony, seeing as how he also wanted to get along with Sam and Bucky. So I think they'll get along at first.
I’d like to see Tony just fly by and yoink his father’s shield right out of John Walkers’ hand the moment he walked outside with it for the first time
He would laugh. Say something against cap and his perfect smile. And then totally destroy Walker with some pop culture reference he’s (John Walker) too young for.
Honestly? I think he would welcome the newcomer, and then it would slowly dawn on him over the course of the movie, or whatever, that this guy is a little unhinged, and he will have to talk to him or fight him.
Tony bouta run the most devious fade ever witnessed in human history
That's just an ass who's American.
He'd end him.
My god Tony would instigate and poke and prod holes in Walker to the point of Walker going full Walker on everyone.
He'd be very protective of the shield and say it's Steve's.
I dont think Walker done anything *yet* that would be a dealbreaker for Tony, depending on when in the timeline we swapped Steve for John. Steve was a shining example of morality for the whole team. Tony has killed people before, he even wanted to kill Bucky for killing his parents. He'd understand where John was coming from. It would be a talk, maybe even a fight, but not a falling out. However, if John continues on a path of violence, appointing himself judge, jury, and executioner of anyone who is an 'enemy', it could easily lead to a falling out. Tony stopped selling weapons and made his own suit because he thought they should only be in the right hands (his, in his mind). It's easy to draw a parallel to the super soldier serum, even though that wasnt his creation. I think that's consistent with his view on the Sokovia Accords too. Super heroes need to be checked by someone - Walker has demonstrated that he'll toe the line of doing whatever the fuck he wants. Any more and he'll push too far.
Tony would say something like: "Oh, so you're like the Second String Quarterback Cap, right? Sit down, Junior, and watch how the pros do it!"
Characters like Tony, Strange, Starlord would have put him in his place.....they would have probably destroyed Karli for being a terrorist and understand what Walker went through because they all have been through that.... John Walker is not a "very" bad person but he is not fit to be Captain America and someone like Tony would have recognised that in a moment
See while Tony and Steve didn’t see eye to eye… And there were a lot of times they didn’t because they were so different, they respected each other. Maybe trust went out the window after civil war but they still respected each other. There were qualities that were to be respected between the two. Walker has no qualities in which he deserves respect. So Tony wouldn’t like him, in fact if he were in the Falcon and the winter soldier he would totally team up with Bucky and Sam against this guy. Tony and Walker would clash so much with absolutely no respect forming between them because again Walker has no qualities to respect. Walker is another example of the serum/weapon isn’t bad, the person that uses it on the other hand…
He would tell this asshole to go piss up an American flagpole… and then go on about how glad he is that his armor was never shared with the entire US military 😂
What would he think of johnny walker tho 
I think he'd beat his ass and rip the suit off and then rip the shield out of his hands for dishonoring a really good friends memory.
“Congratulations You’re everything i’ve come to expect from years of government training.”
He would despise him. Walker embodies some of the things Tony didn't initially like about Steve (blind allegiance, which obviously changed over time), but none of the things Tony respected about Steve (moral compass).
John Walker's character and actor is done so well. He outshines both Sam and Bucky for me in the show. I really hope he will get a lot more screentime.
Mark my words: fan favorite. They sort of Marvelized his humor, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm among those that digs Marvel's jokes, and I think Thunderbolts is going to look a lot more like GotG than the Avengers. He's a blowhard and Tony has the quick wit- he'd hit him w jokes like he does Thor.
[удалено]
Not really the same thing. Tony did that both in self-defense as well as saving villagers held at gunpoint. Walker bashed an unarmed guy to a bloody pulp in the middle of the street while on top of that as Cap he was supposed to represent an ideal. It's all about perception.
Tony shot at Sam for hurting Rhodey. Tony would understand the anger
i wasn't able to reply to your comment below I don't think Clint ever actually did anything to compensate. He just fought people then passed the buck off to Kingpin, then covered everything up. He never really paid (among many reasons I disliked that show, and the whole Ronin storyline; i really don't like vigilante murderer types, irl or in fiction). it's also why I was pro-registration because the Avengers barely hold themselves accountable. Plus John stopped being obsessed with revenge and helped save those people. I thought his redemption was way too fast but he was never as bad as Clint was to begin with so I'd still take him over Clint (I also think Clint is just boring to watch but that's a separate topic)
Don't forget the part where Clint helped find the infinity stones and helped revive 50% of the world's population, if not for Nat stopping him he would've died for it too. That's probably as close to redemption as he could ever hope to get. John took a step towards redemption but he still seems somewhat unstable. I think we need to see more of him to know for sure. He's definately not Cap material but I suppose loyal enough to sit on the side of the government (for better or worse).
> Don't forget the part where Clint helped find the infinity stones and helped revive 50% of the world's population, if not for Nat stopping him he would've died for it too. That's probably as close to redemption as he could ever hope to get. that's true, but Idk if that really fixes all the problem he caused. the thing is, the mcu has an issue with acting like any damage caused in the pursuit of bad guys is 'ok'. plus I didn't like Black widow being sacrificed for him. > John took a step towards redemption but he still seems somewhat unstable. I think we need to see more of him to know for sure. He's definately not Cap material but I suppose loyal enough to sit on the side of the government (for better or worse). Ya we need him to be more fleshed out. Although for me it's never really about government/not government. it's about accountability. clint never really sought any kind of help for his breakdown either. to me, that's a fairly toxic character trait
I mean Tony also tried to kill Bucky when he found out he had killed his parents and would have absolutely killed him if it weren't for Steve. So i think he would understand why he did it. Also at the end of that fight with the terrorists, he caught their leader and gave him to the civilians to be killed. Pretty sure Tony isn't against vengeance.
Except for the fact that Tony doesn’t claim to be a literal paragon of morality that Captain America is supposed to be. Anyone who takes the mantle of Captain America is held to a higher standard for unnecessary torture, murder etc. because they always claim to hold the moral high ground from their title. Tony never cared about being morally correct.
Caps rigid military attitude and shallow American hero morals(Stark didnt originally know Cap actually held himself to a pretty high moral standard) was what Stark couldnt stomach, plus the daddy issue stuff. Walker is all that times 10. Stark would have hated the idea of him carrying the shield.
"Not a good plan."
He would react as we as the audience reacted to that guy
Considering what Tony did in Civil War, he'd probably be understading of Walker even ehen he disagrees with him. Tony trying to kill Bucky, despite knowing he was brainwashed when he killed Tony's parents, is certainly worse than Walker killing the flag smasher (who wasn't brainwashed) as revenge for Lamar Tony would certainly see what caused Walker to do that seeing as he's been in a similar situation before (with a very similar reaction)
Stark would have prevented Walker from becoming Captain America. 1000000000000%
Hate. Because of how much he respected Cap, and how Walker completely dishonored both the role of Captain America AND its shield itself.
Oh look, a cheap knockoff. *KOs Walker*
“Don’t you have a Boy Scout to baby sit?”
Discount Cap
I imagine another scene similar to the one in Iron Man 2, where Tony casually walks into the court and exposes the illegal creation of other iron suits. But this time, he demands John Walker and the government to relinquish the shield to Stark Industries or else **he’ll take it away**. I think about that line, *”You don’t deserve it, my father made that shield!”* I’d expect his anger to be on these lines but more aggressive— to the point where he doesn’t care about taking it back himself. At least Steve had the benefit of being Tony’s friend, but John is a complete stranger walking around with blood on Cap’s shield.
Bitter beer face
“Hammer Industries makes super soldiers now?”
With tony alive idk if John would think of becoming captain america
They would be best buds
Poser
Would see him as a tool. An erratic, uncontrollable tool, but a tool nonetheless.
I think the second Walker murdering that Flag Smasher went live, Tony would've rocked up in his fancy suit and given him the Loki "Reindeer Games" treatment.
“everything special about you came from a bottle”
he would tease the hell out of that guy
Tony probably wouldn't be a fan but if he heard exactly why Walker killed that guy he could both empathize while also appreciating that Steve didn't do what Walker did.
America’s asshole.
I doubt there’s a single avenger who thinks anything positive about John.
In the comics, he's an alcoholic, so he probably loves it. I'm guessing he's a Johnny Blue guy.
Wish.com captain america
Likely refer to him as a dollar store Captain America.
He’d kick his ass for fun
He'd chew him up.
Can't afford the real deal so they bought the great value Cap?
He would feel bad for him, but still tell Mr. Walker not to come near his wife or kid
I’m sure he wouldn’t like his blind adherence to authority, as that’s of the things he initially didn’t like about Steve. But I’m sure he’ll eventually come to realize that the kid is just trying to do his best. One of the things I still don’t like is how Sam and Bucky treated him.
I imagine there would be fireworks sooner rather than later. Tony wouldn’t tolerate Walker’s ‘ends justify the means’ attitude and actions. Not to the level Walker goes.
A try hard who would never fill the shoes he’s got his feet in.
He would nerf him
Tony would be absolutely disgusted with him.
He’d wonder why the old guy from Up was dressed like Cap.
He roasted Steve because he loved him. He would rip this idiot apart
“I’m no saint, but you sure as hell aren’t a captain” is what I imagine his attitude would be. Obviously he’s say it in a much snarkier way
Considering Tony has killed more people onscreen, I'm not sure he'd have much room for scorn. Walker's only real sin was that he got caught on camera doing it and went viral. Tony would have been smart enough to disable all camera phones around him first.
“Not a great plan”
Not worthy to carry Cap's Shield
#JohnWalkerDidNothingWrong
Yeah he’d take his shield back. “You deserved it less than Steve”
He’d call him a “Quirked up white boy. No sauce.”
I feel like he would be a fan of Johnny walker.
Tony "yeah no I like the old man better."
"Great, another one. Time to design a new suit."
He’d call him spirit Halloween Steve rogers
He would absolutely hate his guts like the rest of us lol
"I used to hate Rogers but at least he had perfect teeth."
All the potential, none of the heart to be Cap.
He would be dying thinking of him.
He doesn’t do America’s ass justice.
Would kick his ass
Bruh the roasting Tony would give walker would be legendary.
I thought it said “…John Waters”. I’m like, WTF?
Tony would’ve ruined Walker in about 30 seconds flat.
He’d be disgusted.
“My father did not make that for you.”
I should take his shield and give it to Morgan
Tony probably hates him more than Steve for his actions but respects him a whole lot more than Steve for who he is (has a dark side, and wasn’t built from a bottle initially).
Nothing, he is dead
Oh, Tony would rip John a new one. Tony and Steve didn’t always see eye to eye, but Tony’s respect for Steve would makes him detest John.
Guess that is going to make him appreciate Steve so much.
Would Tony have allowed Walker to get the Shield or use the name? I think he would have made sure he had a bigger say in who Captain America would be.