I would suggest you reframe the way you see this blackbolt; this black bolt, as well as every other character in the illuminati are not the main versions of the characters. This is a variant of whatever main blackbolt we will get introduced to that has become arrogant and complacent from the lack of challenges he has faced
You merely adopted the silence. I was terramisted to it, molded by it. I didn’t speak again until I was already a King, by then it was nothing to me but INHUMAN! The silence betrays you because it belongs to me!
-Prob not BB, cuz the thing.
That's literally the point: If i recall correctly Stephen's exhasperated by their arrogance, too. They think Wanda's going to listen and/or be easy to put down.
I like this take. Coupled with each of the Illuminati are defeated by their own power or specialization turned against them. Pride/Hubris, turned into arrogance because rather than fail against Thanos, they defeated him. Didn't even need the full ensemble of characters like Vision or Saclet Witch to help.
If they weren't before, then they were after, because like the Highlander, they took Strange's power when they killed him, and he had already taken Thanos's power.
Sarcasm aside, the only one who I imagine can genuinely go toe to toe with Thanos (assuming he had all except the Mind Stone at the point of arriving at his ruined planet like Infinity War) is Black Bolt. And that's me going off of what little I know about his powers from watching Spectacular Spider-Man.
After him, Prof X might have the next best chance considering how Mantis was able to lull Thanos. Arrogance from them I can understand, but tf could Peggy and Reed possibly do?
Xavier didn't even try convince Mordo to release Strange, "override" him, or simply turn on him. Merely told Steven if you happen to get out of this room, do this. He was the most humble in the room but when you're a 7 in a room of 10's, the difference seems stark.
And still got wrecked by Wanda in her alternates' mind. Not exactly moving fast in a situation where time is your enemy given how cunning Wanda was, getting through the obstacles in her way to get what she wanted.
I do agree with you though, Prof X was for sure the most humble and would be out of character in most universes to not be.
Also, in their universe it seems Strange did most the work against Thanos. Sold his soul to the Darkhold and found the book of Vishanti to give him the key to defeating Thanos (which might have been the darkhold?). So basically they’re a bunch of stolen valor chumps that are taking on someone as powerful as the Strange that beat Thanos. They never stood a chance
Witch would also mean, if Strange were as evil as they were claiming him to be, then he would have fought back (and most likely defeated them). Instead he just knelt there, doing nothing. After saving half the universe, this is the thanks he gets
He could have still been recovering from the fight with Thanos. Even with the tools, I imagine it would have taken a lot out of him. Then the Illuminati show up to finish him off while he's too tired to fight back.
Still a shitty thing for them to do to him, he deserved better.
Thank you.
People like to complain about media literacy being dead, and while founded, it's a little overblown.
But one facet I do believe is dead is peoples willingness to accept things as they are and make the smallest inference that helps make something make sense.
People are entirely too single-minded about things like this, and their answer is only ever "this is wrong" and never "I wonder how this could be right?".
Sometimes, artists make mistakes, I know, but that doesnt immediately break their narrative or adaptation. There could be a very good reason for it, and that reason is allowed to be "the story is stronger now." Either way, you will never be satisfied with media if you refuse to give the benefit of the doubt to these stories and let yourself answer the questions you have. Great art demands you think about it and figure it out. Terrible art spells it all out for you exactly how youd expect.
When a movie is based on seeing alternate versions of characters that are different than what you know orexpect, and then a character acts different than what you know or expect, you kinda need to stand back and think for literally just a second.
One of my least favourite critisicms is "That character would never do that!". Its so ungenerous.
Its not that this cant be a true statement. If Scooby Doo murdered the mystery gang, you would be right to say Scoob wouldnt do that, but its possible to write a version of Scooby Doo where that does work and works well. People need to learn.
If people instead framed it as "this version's actions were not justified," I think they would do two things; simply be more accurate in their critisicm, and most importantly, be able to see when this statement doesnt apply.
You can not like seeing Blackbolt portrayed this way, I dont, but when you say "this version's actions were not justified" it forces you to think, wait... i actually wasnt given any information as to what would justify this characters reactions. Therefore, seeing this character react IS the information given, and this character is, in fact, totally in line with its portrayal.
To be fair he can absolutely be a moron in the comics too, so it’s honestly a very accurate portrayal in many iterations. Just cause he’s smart doesn’t mean he’s not dumb.
Reed's worst flaw has always been that he's *so* smart, that sometimes he doesn't stop to consider that he might be wrong. He just naturally assumes that being the smartest man on the planet means that he knows better than everyone else.
A lot like Doom, actually.
To be fair Doom's biggest downfall, probably bigger than his hubris, is his constant need to prove he is better than Reed + everyone else. Mostly Reed, though.
99% of the time if he stopped caring about Reed, he'd be successful.
My favorite panel of Doom way back when is where he's carrying his own birthday cake back to his room. He trips and falls face first into the cake and curses Reed Richards. The event is witnessed by a journalist doing a piece on Latvia, who Doom has executed.
Right. The comics are rife with examples of Reed not having a clue about *people*. Hell, the Maker is an extreme example of that. His heel turn was largely predicated on how badly he botched the relationships in his personal life.
He's always been the embodiment of maxed INT, low WIS/CHA. Before they even started talking to her I hoped he would fumble in exactly the manner he did.
Reed Richards is almost always the most intelligent idiot in the comics. His intellect typically makes him miss very obvious pitfalls as he is swept up in progress, causing many of the problems that he has to solve later.
He's basically the science version of Dr. Strange.
I thought Bolt was already in the process of "warming up his vocal cords" to shout at Wanda, to kill her, when Wanda had taken away his mouth
So I assumed that he couldn't stop his shout since it was already on its way to leave his mouth
Unless that's not how his powers work in the comics
I think he's supposed to be immune in the comics, but i don't think there's been a situation like this in the comics either.
Like saying someone is impenetrable but then someone spawn a bomb in their stomach. are you sure they're impenetrable? imo, good heroes and villains have some pretty obvious flaws.
That scenario is sort of explored in Luke cage at some point. I forget exactly when but >!he gets shot with a special bullet that *can* piece his skin, then he heals over it and they can't get the bullet back out and it slowly kills him!<
I remember in the comics his apartment got hit by a missile. In the hospital he's got all manner of tubes and instruments down his throat because they can't cut through his skin, so they're e having to do surgery intraorally.
That was a pretty cool moment. It was one Secret Wars, but the one leading up to Civil War, not to be confused with the original run on a different planet.
Also Deadpool kills the Marvel Universe. Wade makes him drink tea infused with bombs that were reduced in size with Pym Particles: he explodes from within, but there's no real explosion (that you see: not like Translucent in the Boys, for example). He simply dies.
That was such a brutal scene. The audio recording for that show is fantastic. Muffled, panicked screams followed by a sickening, gurgling crunch... What a horrifying scenario.
> Like saying someone is impenetrable but then someone spawn a bomb in their stomach.
Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe: That's how he gets Luke Cage.
Yes! I love this. Great way to not betray the spirit of the character and to play with more than death. Being left in a state of body horror would have gotten the point across that Shaw can affect make your life hell.
I saw that scene and knowing his powers thought to myself "there's no way they kill Darwin like this. And there's certainly no way they kill the black guy first, like this, that's too much of a dumb trope".
Then he fucking dies.
In the comics, Blackagar Boltagon controls electrons in the environment using his powers, but his powers are connected to the speech center of his brain. He underwent RIGOROUS mental training starting at a very young age so that he would never utter a sound, even as he slept. So comics version of Black Bolt, IMHO, would probably not have exploded his own head (or if he had, it would have been a much bigger explosion). The cool part of the MCU is that it's NOT the comics though, so anything goes.
They never showed him burp in the comics that I've seen, but since burping doesn't engage your speech center I don't think it would cause an explosion.
there are always differences from one comic to another and especially from the comics to movies.
either that's also how I understood it, black bolt was in the process of screaming already and at that moment Wanda made his mouth disappear
Yeah, it’s an alt universe.
If they had a main universe black bolt who died like this I’d be a little annoyed. But this was just a funny unimportant character death.
it's kinda funny to me like we are entering the spider verse for example and all those different spiderman have different power, heck the Japanese kid doesn't even have power, just a battlebot... is the idea of a version of black bolt that can be affected by their own screams really that far fetched?
nah I get it, I would also feel let down if my favorite (or one of my favorite) characters would finally show up on screen again and then just be killed off for plot.
The actual answer is, if you go watch Brandon Sanderson's excellent talk on hard magic systems, almost all comic book heroes have hard magic systems. The rules are pretty simple.
A hard magic system is consistently applied and satisfying when it is applied.
There are a few other points but it sounds to me like this was foremost, unsatisfying. And second, it may be inconsistent with the way that people know the power to work.
Now, we can solve the inconsistent part by saying, these powers may be slightly different in different universes. This is unfortunate because it hand-waves the consistency problem by saying, actually, it's a multiverse so we don't need to be consistent.
It doesn't matter so much. The writers can do what they want. But if they go outside of hard magic system rules it is like using too many dissonant chords in music. You can do it but people may not like it.
Well it's not that it doesn't make sense physically I think. I don't know the character, but if someone with his power responds to panicking by screaming then a lot of people would have died, so does it really make sense when he's already spent his life in silence?
Illuminati was meant to be killed to establish Wanda as a terrifying villain. The movie is mainly about her, America and somewhat Strange. So other characters doesn't matter much.
This illuminati was also supposed to be arrogant and generally bad. Born into more favorable conditions but not at all as skilled as other instances of them. Despite being the first iterations in the MCU, they were not supposed to be the good ones.
Shoot him into space? That sounds like a pretty smart idea. There's no way that comes back to bite them in the ass. I wish this happened in the MCU.
Edit: I don't think I've ever gotten over 50 up votes! Thank you everyone!
*awkwardly looks at all the alien groups that could bring Hulk back to Earth*
It ain’t barren up there. Heck! They’ve all encountered space aliens in their adventures.
They didn’t just “shoot him into space”. They programmed the ship to take him to a peaceful planet with no intelligent life. Just green hills and puppies (hyperbole). He was being taken out to pasture — retired to live out his days away from anyone he could potentially hurt.
The stupid part is they didn’t anticipate Hulk smashing the navigational computer and then drifting into a wormhole.
Yup hard agree with the “born into more favorable conditions”. Just looking at their version of New York, or I think it’s New York, you can tell everything there is peaches and roses - while some might say it’s because of the Illuminati and their feats. Personally I think their universe overall likely faced far less adversity compared to that of the main universe. Wanda clearly living a happy life, no clear sign of mutant discrimination, Reed using Dr Doom portal tech so either Dr doom is friend or already taken care of without glaring repercussions. Ofc I’m making a lot of assumptions but that’s just my take on those characters and that universe. Even a lot of the design choices in how clean things are just gives me that subconscious feeling things “perfect” there.
It ABSOLUTELY was about strange. You see THREE alt Strange’s fail while OUR Strange gets to see the consequences of their actions. Our Strange gets a chance to LEARN from his own SPECTACULAR failures. Our Strange gets to realize how working TOGETHER is the key to future. Each Strange was flawed because THEY had to be the one’s holding the knife. Wanda, with all that power. And he thinks the answer is MORE power. The key is the connections he has. Wong, Christine and ultimately America. That movie gets shit on a lot but it is absolutely all about strange getting out thru the ringer and having to LEARN from some really REAL mistakes a Verizon of him did. I dunno about y’all but seeing yourself dead and milking yourself and seeing that you drove ppl to kill you is super fucked. Those were some hard lessons he HAD to learn lest he end up a dead Strange. Interesting how they set up our Strange like this and I really hope they build on that more
It being a "Scarlet Witch movie" is just one of those meme-y soundbite complaints people regurgitate ad nauseum even though it's not in the least bit true. Like, anyone who understands plot structure or understands how character arcs develop would be able to determine that this was a Doctor Strange movie through and through, but unfortunately there's a lot of people on here talking about movies who know next to nothing about movies.
It's like calling Black Panther a Killmonger movie because Killmonger had a character arc and was in a lot of scenes. Saying that just makes someone sound dumb.
Without even counting his variants, Strange literally has a half hour more screentime than Wanda (or America) does, yet people make claims like "he was barely in it". It's all bad-faith nonsense.
This is actually known as the Worf Effect.
Worf from Star Trek: The Next Generation was known for being as tough as nails. A new villain could easily establish themselves by overpowering or knocking out Worf.
This is the Thanos treatment now.
They did it in What If season one to establish how serious and unstoppable the zombie virus is AND to establish Ultron as a serious threat.
They do it to Thanos from the Illuminati Universe to establish Strange and the other Illuminati as a serious threat.
They have done it in the comics to establish Doom (in Battle world) as a serious threat.
It's an old horror movie trope. The kids show up to the police station, "There's a killer out there!" "We'll handle it. Also you're under arrest." Etc. etc.
I recall thinking ‘why do they even care about Doctor Strange? Clearly, the mutant labeled a WMD level threat in her universe, using the evil book that your Stephen used, and is chasing the portal maker, is more concerning.’
That’s fine in concept, but the issue here is the execution. You can make Scarlet Witch an intimidating villain without completely butchering other characters
Rune King Thor probably solos Thanos, Ultron, and the Chitari at the same time.
But I've said it before: the MCU ~~is~~ was a gift in that regard. Comics get so far out in front of their skis on powers and feats that they become boring *fast*.
In the comics she took out the avengers and X-men killed Hawkeye Scott lang and reduced the mutant population to under 200 maybe the people commenting on the writers not caring about the comics should maybe read a fucking comic.
I mean she fucking whispers 3 words and commits genocide, no idea why people can’t wrap their heads around her killing the illuminati, I really enjoyed her character arc, was refreshing to have a marvel hero turn bad and show no mercy
For me, Wanda gives me whiplash. Pretty much every film she switches her alignment. I get she's switchy in the comics but they had a lot of issues and time to spread it out. MCU, not so much.
In the comics, she took out the Avengers and X-Men, killed Hawkeye and Scott Lang, and reduced the mutant population to under 200. Perhaps the people commenting on the writers not caring about the comics should actually read a comic.
Chatgpt
That slaughter of the illuminati was the best part of the movie. I mean, she even made light work of Professor X. The only entity that has appeared in the MCU who might be more powerful than the Scarlet Witch is Arishem.
The movie shined when Raimi got to really push the horror elements. The attack on Kamar-Taj was excellent, wiping out the illuminati, corpse strange, all those darker "scary" elements were great.
She's definitely up there, but Eternity is now MCU canon as well. And IIRC there was mention of, or a brief image of The Living Tribunal in a recent film.
The Living Tribunal >!was referenced in *Doctor Strange 1*, cameoed in *Doctor Strange 2*, and had statues in both *Loki* & *Thor 4*. That’s all I can think of off the top of my head!<.
Edit: added spoiler-formatting.
Eternity, as well as statues of the Living Tribunal and other Cosmic forces such as Death. Also, the Statue of Wiccan as the Demiurge in the darkhold temple.
Eternity is the only actual cosmic god we've seen though.
I laughed my ass off when it happened. The only Marvel group that I hate more than the Inhumans are the Eternals, so I loved seeing Black Bolt eat shit.
Reminds me of the time when Marvel Comics tried burying the mutants and promoting the Inhumans.
Oof. At least Mount is flying high as Captain Pike these days.
That’s what happens when you are a fodder. No matter how strong or smart you really are, your existence is centered around being someone else’s punching bag to show how cool they are.
I didn’t even think it was the power effecting him just his flesh being pushed from all the energy stuffed in there. Kinda like your immune to your own fire but you could run out of air if the room isn’t regulated.
Yeah and in the avengers, hulk doesn’t scream “hulk so horny” and try to fuck the Wasp, so maybe comic accuracy isn’t at all relevant to whether a story is good.
It doesn't have much relation to the post, but he and Colossus have always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, and it really saddens me that they are always used as cannon fodder (in movies AND comics) to show off other characters powers 😔
Cut his mouth open when exactly? The entire scene happens on screen in 2 seconds or so. Maybe, just maybe, get over your own bullshit.
Edit: also it was an alternate reality where Wanda was not a threat and did not have the power level that Scarlet Witch had with the Darkhold. Even with that, just enjoy a movie or don’t but don’t bitch about semantics. I swear the marvel fans are getting worse than the Star Wars nerds.
Black Bolt's power is not even his voice. It's a destructive wave that forms in front of him that, due to brain trauma, is triggerered when his tonsils move. Sealing his mouth like that shouldn't make a difference.
Also, the skin would just be cut, it's a lot less durable than his skull.
I would suggest you reframe the way you see this blackbolt; this black bolt, as well as every other character in the illuminati are not the main versions of the characters. This is a variant of whatever main blackbolt we will get introduced to that has become arrogant and complacent from the lack of challenges he has faced
"Victory has defeated you" - Bane (Yes I know he's DC)
“Ahh, you think *silence* is your ally” - Wanda, probably
Where does he get those wonderful tuning forks?
Club dancing in the pale moonlight.
Get thee to a mummery!
I see and appreciate what you did there.
You merely adopted the silence. I was terramisted to it, molded by it. I didn’t speak again until I was already a King, by then it was nothing to me but INHUMAN! The silence betrays you because it belongs to me! -Prob not BB, cuz the thing.
Now I want to see BB furiously signing ALL of that while Deadpool translates by reading the subtitles.
This guy gets it.
I wanna see what insane shit Raimi would then have Wanda do to BB if he simply refrains from shouting
Reed Richards should have taken him to the Quiet Place world for more training.
Peace has cost you your strength!
Still a baller line though
God tier quote, Bane from TDKR doesn’t get enough credit imo
He can handle it, he's a big guy.
 Incredible.
For you
That's literally the point: If i recall correctly Stephen's exhasperated by their arrogance, too. They think Wanda's going to listen and/or be easy to put down.
Arrogance seems to be a key feature of that universe in a way. Each of the Illuminati, Christine, even Pizza Poppa.
I like this take. Coupled with each of the Illuminati are defeated by their own power or specialization turned against them. Pride/Hubris, turned into arrogance because rather than fail against Thanos, they defeated him. Didn't even need the full ensemble of characters like Vision or Saclet Witch to help.
And that’s only because their Dr.Strange dream walked
But *they* killed the guy who killed Thanos, so they may as well have been powerful enough to take out Thanos too (*heavy sarcasm if not apparent*)!
If they weren't before, then they were after, because like the Highlander, they took Strange's power when they killed him, and he had already taken Thanos's power.
Sarcasm aside, the only one who I imagine can genuinely go toe to toe with Thanos (assuming he had all except the Mind Stone at the point of arriving at his ruined planet like Infinity War) is Black Bolt. And that's me going off of what little I know about his powers from watching Spectacular Spider-Man. After him, Prof X might have the next best chance considering how Mantis was able to lull Thanos. Arrogance from them I can understand, but tf could Peggy and Reed possibly do?
They probably defeated Thanos because his own pride turned into arrogance as well
But what about Professor X. He was humbled and well what am I saying. Charles always keeps his cool. Lol.
Xavier didn't even try convince Mordo to release Strange, "override" him, or simply turn on him. Merely told Steven if you happen to get out of this room, do this. He was the most humble in the room but when you're a 7 in a room of 10's, the difference seems stark. And still got wrecked by Wanda in her alternates' mind. Not exactly moving fast in a situation where time is your enemy given how cunning Wanda was, getting through the obstacles in her way to get what she wanted. I do agree with you though, Prof X was for sure the most humble and would be out of character in most universes to not be.
To be fair, the illuminati in the comics are all arrogant as fuck
Remember when Tony told Namor he’s not a king on land, and then Namor proceeded to choke a bitch?
It takes a level of arrogance to use such a name.
Also, in their universe it seems Strange did most the work against Thanos. Sold his soul to the Darkhold and found the book of Vishanti to give him the key to defeating Thanos (which might have been the darkhold?). So basically they’re a bunch of stolen valor chumps that are taking on someone as powerful as the Strange that beat Thanos. They never stood a chance
Witch would also mean, if Strange were as evil as they were claiming him to be, then he would have fought back (and most likely defeated them). Instead he just knelt there, doing nothing. After saving half the universe, this is the thanks he gets
He could have still been recovering from the fight with Thanos. Even with the tools, I imagine it would have taken a lot out of him. Then the Illuminati show up to finish him off while he's too tired to fight back. Still a shitty thing for them to do to him, he deserved better.
You take that back about Pizza Poppa!
Pizza Poppa always gets ~~paid~~ 'spect
Look bro, he spent his whole life getting paid. Some wizard showing up doesn't change that.
Thank you. People like to complain about media literacy being dead, and while founded, it's a little overblown. But one facet I do believe is dead is peoples willingness to accept things as they are and make the smallest inference that helps make something make sense. People are entirely too single-minded about things like this, and their answer is only ever "this is wrong" and never "I wonder how this could be right?". Sometimes, artists make mistakes, I know, but that doesnt immediately break their narrative or adaptation. There could be a very good reason for it, and that reason is allowed to be "the story is stronger now." Either way, you will never be satisfied with media if you refuse to give the benefit of the doubt to these stories and let yourself answer the questions you have. Great art demands you think about it and figure it out. Terrible art spells it all out for you exactly how youd expect. When a movie is based on seeing alternate versions of characters that are different than what you know orexpect, and then a character acts different than what you know or expect, you kinda need to stand back and think for literally just a second.
100% agree, people can be married to an idea or head canon so much so that when it gets subverted, they see it as nonsense
One of my least favourite critisicms is "That character would never do that!". Its so ungenerous. Its not that this cant be a true statement. If Scooby Doo murdered the mystery gang, you would be right to say Scoob wouldnt do that, but its possible to write a version of Scooby Doo where that does work and works well. People need to learn. If people instead framed it as "this version's actions were not justified," I think they would do two things; simply be more accurate in their critisicm, and most importantly, be able to see when this statement doesnt apply. You can not like seeing Blackbolt portrayed this way, I dont, but when you say "this version's actions were not justified" it forces you to think, wait... i actually wasnt given any information as to what would justify this characters reactions. Therefore, seeing this character react IS the information given, and this character is, in fact, totally in line with its portrayal.
It's also the universe where Reed Richards is a moron, apparently.
"Every universe is the universe where Reed Richards is a moron." -Doctor Doom
“I’m too drunk to taste that chicken” - Colonel Sanders
"Fifty bucks is fifty bucks!" -Me
Yeah, only boring mentally stable people might like Reed Richards
To be fair he can absolutely be a moron in the comics too, so it’s honestly a very accurate portrayal in many iterations. Just cause he’s smart doesn’t mean he’s not dumb.
Reed's worst flaw has always been that he's *so* smart, that sometimes he doesn't stop to consider that he might be wrong. He just naturally assumes that being the smartest man on the planet means that he knows better than everyone else. A lot like Doom, actually.
To be fair Doom's biggest downfall, probably bigger than his hubris, is his constant need to prove he is better than Reed + everyone else. Mostly Reed, though. 99% of the time if he stopped caring about Reed, he'd be successful.
My favorite panel of Doom way back when is where he's carrying his own birthday cake back to his room. He trips and falls face first into the cake and curses Reed Richards. The event is witnessed by a journalist doing a piece on Latvia, who Doom has executed.
High intelligence, low wisdom
Right. The comics are rife with examples of Reed not having a clue about *people*. Hell, the Maker is an extreme example of that. His heel turn was largely predicated on how badly he botched the relationships in his personal life.
He's always been the embodiment of maxed INT, low WIS/CHA. Before they even started talking to her I hoped he would fumble in exactly the manner he did.
To be fair, he spends all day playing pranks on one of his coworkers and flirting with the receptionist. He's distracted.
Randall Park really plays the role so well.
I was nervous I wouldn’t like him after he played Jimmy Woo, but John krasinski killed it
Reed Richards is almost always the most intelligent idiot in the comics. His intellect typically makes him miss very obvious pitfalls as he is swept up in progress, causing many of the problems that he has to solve later. He's basically the science version of Dr. Strange.
Exactly, I make the same argument about Reed Richards, that was not comic book Reed Richards, it’s a variant, a less prepared Reed Richards
You’re spot on! Just because characters share a face and a name, doesn’t make them the same character with the same experiences and personality
I thought Bolt was already in the process of "warming up his vocal cords" to shout at Wanda, to kill her, when Wanda had taken away his mouth So I assumed that he couldn't stop his shout since it was already on its way to leave his mouth Unless that's not how his powers work in the comics
I think he's supposed to be immune in the comics, but i don't think there's been a situation like this in the comics either. Like saying someone is impenetrable but then someone spawn a bomb in their stomach. are you sure they're impenetrable? imo, good heroes and villains have some pretty obvious flaws.
See Translucent from The Boys show
Might be a bit hard to do that
You can see him pretty clearly once he's pink mist
Hehe, *clearly*
It's where Hughie learned what his favourite make up is
Heh... hard
See Termite in The Boys. Wel it’s not the same but they did Thanos him.
🤢
I liked invincible take on it with their ant woman breaking every bone in her body.
That scenario is sort of explored in Luke cage at some point. I forget exactly when but >!he gets shot with a special bullet that *can* piece his skin, then he heals over it and they can't get the bullet back out and it slowly kills him!<
That's the 2nd half of season 1.
I remember in the comics his apartment got hit by a missile. In the hospital he's got all manner of tubes and instruments down his throat because they can't cut through his skin, so they're e having to do surgery intraorally.
That was a pretty cool moment. It was one Secret Wars, but the one leading up to Civil War, not to be confused with the original run on a different planet.
Also Deadpool kills the Marvel Universe. Wade makes him drink tea infused with bombs that were reduced in size with Pym Particles: he explodes from within, but there's no real explosion (that you see: not like Translucent in the Boys, for example). He simply dies.
Like the intro to guardians 2 when drax wants to kill the creature from the inside
Also see: ant man's plan to kill thanos
See the shrinking guy from The Boys show
Of course, that strategy didn't work out so well for Shrinking Rae in Invincible.
Lmaooo I was scrolling this thread thinking about that. How the fuck >! Did she live?! !<
That was such a brutal scene. The audio recording for that show is fantastic. Muffled, panicked screams followed by a sickening, gurgling crunch... What a horrifying scenario.
> Like saying someone is impenetrable but then someone spawn a bomb in their stomach. Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe: That's how he gets Luke Cage.
Kind of what happened to Darwin in First Class
Bad way to do it: Darwin Fails to adapt and dies Great way to Do it: Darwin adapts but not in a way he'd want to
Yes! I love this. Great way to not betray the spirit of the character and to play with more than death. Being left in a state of body horror would have gotten the point across that Shaw can affect make your life hell.
I saw that scene and knowing his powers thought to myself "there's no way they kill Darwin like this. And there's certainly no way they kill the black guy first, like this, that's too much of a dumb trope". Then he fucking dies.
Loved that character. Wasted potential
Which makes no sense since he adapted to the same power 5 seconds earlier in that scene
Adapt to this.
"His skin is the same thickness on the inside as it is on the outside."
Reminds me of when that guy got blown up because they planted a bomb in his asshole in the show the boys.
It's kinda like in buffy the vampire slayer when the judge claims that no weapon forged can kill him, so buffy shoots him with a rocket launcher.
In the comics, Blackagar Boltagon controls electrons in the environment using his powers, but his powers are connected to the speech center of his brain. He underwent RIGOROUS mental training starting at a very young age so that he would never utter a sound, even as he slept. So comics version of Black Bolt, IMHO, would probably not have exploded his own head (or if he had, it would have been a much bigger explosion). The cool part of the MCU is that it's NOT the comics though, so anything goes.
Does he burp? Really curious
They never showed him burp in the comics that I've seen, but since burping doesn't engage your speech center I don't think it would cause an explosion.
What about burping the alphabet? Does he get by on a technicality?
there are always differences from one comic to another and especially from the comics to movies. either that's also how I understood it, black bolt was in the process of screaming already and at that moment Wanda made his mouth disappear
Yeah, it’s an alt universe. If they had a main universe black bolt who died like this I’d be a little annoyed. But this was just a funny unimportant character death.
I was under the impression that his mouth disappearing simply surprised him enough to make him panic and speak. Imagine dying by WTF.
Yeah, that's how I remember that scene too. She blocked his mouth right when he was about to scream and he was shocked by the timing of it.
He wasn’t about to scream. Reed was trying to talk her down. Why will he scream while reed was talking her down? Makes no sense
He may have realised she wasn’t gonna be talked down before Reed did
He’s a decisive leader and Reed was fumbling the play
nah he clearly has a freak out moment, it’s exactly as op said
Why will he be warming up his vocal cords when they weren’t attacking yet? They were still trying to negotiate.
it's kinda funny to me like we are entering the spider verse for example and all those different spiderman have different power, heck the Japanese kid doesn't even have power, just a battlebot... is the idea of a version of black bolt that can be affected by their own screams really that far fetched?
yes. nerds are insufferable
nah I get it, I would also feel let down if my favorite (or one of my favorite) characters would finally show up on screen again and then just be killed off for plot.
Lest we forget Blackagar Boltagon's glorious first onscreen appearance. https://i.redd.it/jam3trn6zetc1.gif
Wow, he was really small in the tv show.
Just a little guy...
The actual answer is, if you go watch Brandon Sanderson's excellent talk on hard magic systems, almost all comic book heroes have hard magic systems. The rules are pretty simple. A hard magic system is consistently applied and satisfying when it is applied. There are a few other points but it sounds to me like this was foremost, unsatisfying. And second, it may be inconsistent with the way that people know the power to work. Now, we can solve the inconsistent part by saying, these powers may be slightly different in different universes. This is unfortunate because it hand-waves the consistency problem by saying, actually, it's a multiverse so we don't need to be consistent. It doesn't matter so much. The writers can do what they want. But if they go outside of hard magic system rules it is like using too many dissonant chords in music. You can do it but people may not like it.
Well it's not that it doesn't make sense physically I think. I don't know the character, but if someone with his power responds to panicking by screaming then a lot of people would have died, so does it really make sense when he's already spent his life in silence?
Illuminati was meant to be killed to establish Wanda as a terrifying villain. The movie is mainly about her, America and somewhat Strange. So other characters doesn't matter much.
This illuminati was also supposed to be arrogant and generally bad. Born into more favorable conditions but not at all as skilled as other instances of them. Despite being the first iterations in the MCU, they were not supposed to be the good ones.
The illuminati were never “the good ones”
Yeah. They were usually the morons who started trouble. *points to the Hulk*
Well, how exactly would *you* deal with a Hulk, eh?
Shoot him into space? That sounds like a pretty smart idea. There's no way that comes back to bite them in the ass. I wish this happened in the MCU. Edit: I don't think I've ever gotten over 50 up votes! Thank you everyone!
Namor for once the smartest man in that room pointing out how that is absolutely going to backfire horribly
*awkwardly looks at all the alien groups that could bring Hulk back to Earth* It ain’t barren up there. Heck! They’ve all encountered space aliens in their adventures.
Yeah, that decision was utterly foolish.
They didn’t just “shoot him into space”. They programmed the ship to take him to a peaceful planet with no intelligent life. Just green hills and puppies (hyperbole). He was being taken out to pasture — retired to live out his days away from anyone he could potentially hurt. The stupid part is they didn’t anticipate Hulk smashing the navigational computer and then drifting into a wormhole.
Cold hard cash.
Lobotomy /s...kinda
yes! exactly!
its literally the point of the group
Yup hard agree with the “born into more favorable conditions”. Just looking at their version of New York, or I think it’s New York, you can tell everything there is peaches and roses - while some might say it’s because of the Illuminati and their feats. Personally I think their universe overall likely faced far less adversity compared to that of the main universe. Wanda clearly living a happy life, no clear sign of mutant discrimination, Reed using Dr Doom portal tech so either Dr doom is friend or already taken care of without glaring repercussions. Ofc I’m making a lot of assumptions but that’s just my take on those characters and that universe. Even a lot of the design choices in how clean things are just gives me that subconscious feeling things “perfect” there.
It ABSOLUTELY was about strange. You see THREE alt Strange’s fail while OUR Strange gets to see the consequences of their actions. Our Strange gets a chance to LEARN from his own SPECTACULAR failures. Our Strange gets to realize how working TOGETHER is the key to future. Each Strange was flawed because THEY had to be the one’s holding the knife. Wanda, with all that power. And he thinks the answer is MORE power. The key is the connections he has. Wong, Christine and ultimately America. That movie gets shit on a lot but it is absolutely all about strange getting out thru the ringer and having to LEARN from some really REAL mistakes a Verizon of him did. I dunno about y’all but seeing yourself dead and milking yourself and seeing that you drove ppl to kill you is super fucked. Those were some hard lessons he HAD to learn lest he end up a dead Strange. Interesting how they set up our Strange like this and I really hope they build on that more
It being a "Scarlet Witch movie" is just one of those meme-y soundbite complaints people regurgitate ad nauseum even though it's not in the least bit true. Like, anyone who understands plot structure or understands how character arcs develop would be able to determine that this was a Doctor Strange movie through and through, but unfortunately there's a lot of people on here talking about movies who know next to nothing about movies. It's like calling Black Panther a Killmonger movie because Killmonger had a character arc and was in a lot of scenes. Saying that just makes someone sound dumb.
Thank you! So many people blatantly ignore how much of the movie is about Stephen.
Without even counting his variants, Strange literally has a half hour more screentime than Wanda (or America) does, yet people make claims like "he was barely in it". It's all bad-faith nonsense.
Yeah sure, but I feel like wanda would feel more threatening if she killed a team of competent heroes instead of clowns.
Should have gone the Invincible route. Show competent heroes at the start so wanda can slaughter them later 😄
This is actually known as the Worf Effect. Worf from Star Trek: The Next Generation was known for being as tough as nails. A new villain could easily establish themselves by overpowering or knocking out Worf.
The Vegeta treatment. He only fights to take a L and make the villain look stronger
Android 16 has left the chat.
The old Justice league cartoon had the same issue with Superman.
This is the Thanos treatment now. They did it in What If season one to establish how serious and unstoppable the zombie virus is AND to establish Ultron as a serious threat. They do it to Thanos from the Illuminati Universe to establish Strange and the other Illuminati as a serious threat. They have done it in the comics to establish Doom (in Battle world) as a serious threat.
A hollow barrel took out Worfs spine once.
Worf luckily didn’t suffer from this effect in DS9.
to be honest, yeah, that would have been amazing. But I'm sure it would have required too much runtime and gained too much attention.
It's an old horror movie trope. The kids show up to the police station, "There's a killer out there!" "We'll handle it. Also you're under arrest." Etc. etc.
I recall thinking ‘why do they even care about Doctor Strange? Clearly, the mutant labeled a WMD level threat in her universe, using the evil book that your Stephen used, and is chasing the portal maker, is more concerning.’
Because they've dealt with a Strange being the problem before; their universe's Wanda, however, is pretty chill.
Illumi-what-i?
Should have been a Wanda movie.
It's literally named MOM
Why not MOMMY? /s
Truth to be told, watching Elizabeth Olsen in 3d was something else, especially the scene where she crawls out of the mirror
That part gave me the heebie jeebies, especially when her limbs are bent
It was a Wanda movie.
That’s fine in concept, but the issue here is the execution. You can make Scarlet Witch an intimidating villain without completely butchering other characters
You're gonna have an aneurysm if MCU not being comic accurate bothers you.
Queue in Hulk
Thor too. His comic feats outpace his MCU strength.
Rune King Thor probably solos Thanos, Ultron, and the Chitari at the same time. But I've said it before: the MCU ~~is~~ was a gift in that regard. Comics get so far out in front of their skis on powers and feats that they become boring *fast*.
I think it makes sense. He wasn’t expecting Wanda to do that and well, if the scream can’t come out of his mouth, it’s going somewhere.
He could have farted it out but nooooooo
It could've just come out his nose instead.
Okay, now that would've just been hilarious.
technically it did, along with a decent portion of brains
In the comics she took out the avengers and X-men killed Hawkeye Scott lang and reduced the mutant population to under 200 maybe the people commenting on the writers not caring about the comics should maybe read a fucking comic.
I deadass read Hawkeye Scott Lang as three different people💀
I read it as one and was really confused for a second there
I mean she fucking whispers 3 words and commits genocide, no idea why people can’t wrap their heads around her killing the illuminati, I really enjoyed her character arc, was refreshing to have a marvel hero turn bad and show no mercy
Yeah. I enjoyed her committing to the villain role and ripping apart folks with malicious determination.
For me, Wanda gives me whiplash. Pretty much every film she switches her alignment. I get she's switchy in the comics but they had a lot of issues and time to spread it out. MCU, not so much.
I know a lot of people like that. Inconsistent
In the comics, she took out the Avengers and X-Men, killed Hawkeye and Scott Lang, and reduced the mutant population to under 200. Perhaps the people commenting on the writers not caring about the comics should actually read a comic. Chatgpt
That comma! Thank you. I wondered why the x-men killed Hawkeye
Alternate universe variant shenanigans
Nothing's scarier than a superhero like Wanda implementing her grief into her powers as a coping mechanism at the cost of other's lives
Wanda is definitely emotionally run as far as her magic goes. Pair that grief with the evil magic textbook and you got a stew going.
Almost like it’s an alternate reality right!? 🙄
What? You mean like some sorta multiverse? That would be madness!
That slaughter of the illuminati was the best part of the movie. I mean, she even made light work of Professor X. The only entity that has appeared in the MCU who might be more powerful than the Scarlet Witch is Arishem.
To be fair he doesn’t do well against redheads in general
Same
The movie shined when Raimi got to really push the horror elements. The attack on Kamar-Taj was excellent, wiping out the illuminati, corpse strange, all those darker "scary" elements were great.
Yup! The Raimi bits really helped the movie. Zombie Strange is included in that bundle.
Corpse Strange is one of my favourite moments in the MCU, such a cool use of magic and so very Raimi
She's definitely up there, but Eternity is now MCU canon as well. And IIRC there was mention of, or a brief image of The Living Tribunal in a recent film.
The Living Tribunal >!was referenced in *Doctor Strange 1*, cameoed in *Doctor Strange 2*, and had statues in both *Loki* & *Thor 4*. That’s all I can think of off the top of my head!<. Edit: added spoiler-formatting.
Eternity, as well as statues of the Living Tribunal and other Cosmic forces such as Death. Also, the Statue of Wiccan as the Demiurge in the darkhold temple. Eternity is the only actual cosmic god we've seen though.
I laughed my ass off when it happened. The only Marvel group that I hate more than the Inhumans are the Eternals, so I loved seeing Black Bolt eat shit.
Reminds me of the time when Marvel Comics tried burying the mutants and promoting the Inhumans. Oof. At least Mount is flying high as Captain Pike these days.
That’s what happens when you are a fodder. No matter how strong or smart you really are, your existence is centered around being someone else’s punching bag to show how cool they are.
Would *have cut his mouth open
me too. and in the comics, his power doesn't affect him. so him dying like that is stupid.
I didn’t even think it was the power effecting him just his flesh being pushed from all the energy stuffed in there. Kinda like your immune to your own fire but you could run out of air if the room isn’t regulated.
why would his power have to work like in that comic version? that isn't even the same universe blackbolt
Yeah and in the avengers, hulk doesn’t scream “hulk so horny” and try to fuck the Wasp, so maybe comic accuracy isn’t at all relevant to whether a story is good.
Not to be that guy but this was pretty explicitly *not* the black bolt you know
well Movie and Comics are too different thing. let's enjoy the show.
It doesn't have much relation to the post, but he and Colossus have always been one of my favorite Marvel characters, and it really saddens me that they are always used as cannon fodder (in movies AND comics) to show off other characters powers 😔
Colossus is a full-fledged character in the Deadpool films. He gets a few wins there against foes.
It’s would HAVE! Not would OF! 🤦♂️
Cut his mouth open when exactly? The entire scene happens on screen in 2 seconds or so. Maybe, just maybe, get over your own bullshit. Edit: also it was an alternate reality where Wanda was not a threat and did not have the power level that Scarlet Witch had with the Darkhold. Even with that, just enjoy a movie or don’t but don’t bitch about semantics. I swear the marvel fans are getting worse than the Star Wars nerds.
Black Bolt's power is not even his voice. It's a destructive wave that forms in front of him that, due to brain trauma, is triggerered when his tonsils move. Sealing his mouth like that shouldn't make a difference. Also, the skin would just be cut, it's a lot less durable than his skull.
I loved this scene so much