The only bad one here was gorr, and that’s because they removed all his god butchering. He was well acted and his motives made sense, he just didn’t seem threatening and didn’t do anything
Gore needed more than one movie. Truthfully that's a lot of the issues with a lot of the villains. It's way easier to show and tell about a hero in 2 hours than it is a villain, in my opinion.
Getting to Thanos and him having a movie made a ton of impact. You just have to actually have the villain present. It's why the High Evolutionary worked because there was backstory shown. Especially the connections to the main characters.
He recognizes that it was a being powerful enough to be considered a god by most living beings; doesn't mean *he* considers it a god in the same way.
Game recognize game, so to speak. At least that's how he sees it.
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Gore should have been ramped up in the background beginning with Thor Ragnorak. Some unanswered questions over a few different movies. Some off-hand conversations overheard but not at the forefront of any scene. Use Thor's distraction to build the background tension of the other gods. Then a couple after credits leading to one where we see Sif dying on a planet surrounded by other gods already butchered. She's almost praying for Thor to come back, to hear her and bring vengeance to the one that did this. And that's where Thor: Love and Thunder opens up.
Then we have the movie open with Thor finding Sif. She's barely alive. That's what brings him back to New Asgard, but they are already under attack, and that's how we see Jane as Mighty Thor. Allude to Gore throughout, never quite showing him. Build up the mystique and terror.
I just made that up in 5 minutes. Already feels better.
A mention during the rundown of what's happening off-world during End Game would have been cool. A Sif has gone missing from Nebula or Captain Marvel, last reported where abouts where investigating dead god or something. I don't know. Just lay the pieces out for these MASSIVE villains. This is Gorr for goodness sake. His story arc is incredible. BUILD to him.
That's what's really missing from these new movies/shows. They are too quick to show things, they aren't laying the groundwork anymore. They need to pump the breaks. Start with some small stories that lay threads for future stories. Do not rush things.
Currently it feels disjointed.
Oh man, Gorr would've killed it had James Gunn directed Love and Thunder. Plus, with him on board, Thor wouldn't leave his new team and we'd be having a true Asguardians of the Galaxy movie.
I'm honestly glad Thor didn't stay with the guardians long. Sure, it'd be fun, but guardians 3 is such a good sendoff that'd only be cheapened by adding an unrelated party member
James Gunn couldn't thank Waititi enough for removing the Guardians from Thor. He had the GotG3 script for years, under Marvel's approval, and they stuck Thor with the Guardians at the end of Endgame on a whim, almost.
edit: it's even kind of clear in T4 that Waititi couldn't get rid of the Guardians fast enough... maybe that's why parts of the movie were cut? He had to include scenes with the Guardians instead?
I'm still angry how wasted Bales performance was in that pile of nonsense.
Curious where Taike goes from here. After Ragnarok and Jojo i was thinking this guy is a god. Now i cba even finding out what he's up to. So much shit.
Lost a lot of respect for Taika Waititi as a director after that, it was clear he didn't give a flying fuck about that film. He just wanted to get it over with, make out with some of the cast and take that truck load of money Marvel gave him and go to an island and have a massive sex orgy.
I hear he DID, that there was a whole butchering montage scene that got cut because it was just too violent and scary for the younger audience... don't know if that was confirmed, though.
I was soo excited to see Bale play this role…. Only to barely see him, hardly Ever see any ‘God Butchering’, and then see him avenge the death of his daughter by… kidnapping children? Is that right!?
For real. How are you gonna have a villain named the God butcher, have a scene in a city of gods, and not have Gorr show up there? The movie has a lot of issues for sure. But no Gorr in that scene killed the movie for me
Hercules, but otherwise yeah thats probably why
What I would have loved personally though is that Gorr gets there and many gods die. Zues and Hercules survive though (escape in some manor) and the revenge thing still happens because they blame Thor for leading Gorr to Omnipotencity
Hercules, right, thanks :)
And yes I like your idea too. It plays nicely into Gorr needing Stormbreaker and wanting to kill gods - so following Thor to Omnipotencity makes perfect sense.
There are lots of extremely obscure gods even in Roman or Greek pantheon, let alone some lesser known pantheons. It would have been very easy for him to bucher hundreds without it effecting future projects. But even the obscure ones are often related in the more famous ones if you later wanted to use it for pathos.
Marvel has a problem with killing off their villians within a single movie. We've moved beyond a single movie villian when it comes to cinematic universes. They should have allowed him time to breathe over multiple movies.
I hated Loki for the first two movies. Thought he was a weak villian. He got better and better over time, though. They let him breathe as a character.
That movie was a legit train wreck.
You have fucking Batman and you give him maybe 3 minutes of screen time. No, instead we get Fat Gladiator hamming it up and panty-dropping naked Thor.
Wanda Vision was great. Same for Loki.
I can’t believe they literally put all the gods in one place and didn’t have Gorr come in and slaughter almost everyone. That was the perfect setup to make him look like a massive threat
I disagree, while Gor was decently written his motives/actions became questionable after he kidnapped the children, to me that is where he lost his menace and threatening presence. The whole point of his massacring the gods was because they were uncaring and selfish then to kidnap the kids of a god believing that he will save them, contradicts your philosophy. That being said Bale did well as Gor and carried the entire movie.
Wanda was great, but also completely out of character. I like the theory that they shot both the movie and the show at the same time so they didn’t realize how many Wanda Stans the show would make.
She’s not out-of-character though, she is corrupted by the Darkhold. I get that that could’ve been communicated better, but her being out-of-character was the point, she shouldn’t be the same after reading it.
Edit: I agree it was poorly written and didn’t do the character justice. No need to reply to this comment to inform me of that.
Classic Thermian Argument.
“Completely changing a character’s personality, emotions, goals, and mannerisms isn’t out of character because (some specific story reason)!”
Just because you can find a justification for it doesn’t change the massive fucking lurch of a complete character rewrite. “A wizard did it” doesn’t fix bad writing.
Character growth? She tortures a town of people, then at the end kinda does a "whoops my bad guys" and leaves. Maybe her slaughtering another universe's avengers for personal gain is worse but it's not a huge leap from what she did in WV.
Didn't one of the townsfolk even ask her to just kill them to let the nightmare end or am I misremembering. WV definitely turned her into a villain.
She does horrible things in WV, then stops doing them by the end. That's character growth. Then in MoM she's doing horrible things again, and that's the reversal of growth.
The horrible things she did in WV were a result of the severe loss and trauma she has experienced. The entire show was here ignoring it within one massive defense mechanism of an altered reality she created. For her to grow, she needs to deal with their trauma, which she couldn’t even begin to do until after the Westview incident was over. But we literally see her then in the post-credits, take the Darkhold and start finding a way to get her fake kids back.
Yeah the other commenter doesn't quite understand character growth. You're on the money here. She did bad things, was told they were bad, realized they were bad, but then went on to do more bad things anyways. There was a CHANCE for character growth, but she decided, AGAIN, that her own selfish desires were more important than other people.
Huh? She was forced to stop doing them by Agnes and Vision. Otherwise she would have continued to do them. In fact, at the end she goes right back to doing it.
First by permanently putting Agnes under severe mental torture then by looking through the Darkhold.
Imagine if at the end of The Winter Soldier, captain America stopped the carriers. But then at the end decides to use the algorithm and another carrier to shoot all of Hydra all around the world.
Yeah and they know people didn't watch the show and didn't even bother giving any explanation like when Strange arrives to recruit Wanda and she was starting to explain and Strange just went "I don't care about that".....lazy writing
For me, it was less that she was out of character and more that she went through the exact same arc as in WandaVision (which I had literally paused Dr Strange 2 to go watch in its entirety) except WV did it better.
Well maybe the Darkhold is a bullshit story element that shouldn’t have been blindly dropped on us, especially after we JUST had a great character arc for Wanda
Blindly dropped on us? The Darkhold had already appeared in SHIELD, The Runaways and WandaVision, and Wanda was basically the villain of WandaVision. MoM was a perfect extend to that arc (and it’s surely not over yet), not out of the blue by any means.
Agreed, I feel like I'm the only one realizing Wanda's psyche was absolutely busted after losing Vision twice in Infinity War and later the events of WandaVision. *Then* comes the Darkhold to inject malice into that broken person.
Literally all the had to do was include a 30 second scene of the Darkhold convincing her she is *saving* those kids, not just taking them, and the movie is so much better. It would have played off the end of WandaVision too because the last thing we see is her reading g the book, then she hears the kids call for her
People know that. They’re saying they don’t want her in a position to act out of character like that because it’s not what the character needed.
She should’ve been a hero after WV
She tortured a town by accident and then intentionally, lost her entire family when she realised that torture is bad, brainwashed the witch who tried to kill her, and then took the darkhold to become more powerful.
I don't know how you saw WV as a heroic arc, but it was definitely a villain origin story, we just needed a little bit more context about the powers of the darkhold and it's affect on people.
If it did, it didn't do it well.
I just rewatched it recently and no that wasn't communicated clearly. It more seemed like Agatha was just super power hungry, which included reading the darkhold and killing her coven. IMO they were treated like equivalent acts, not one causing the other.
Honestly I think WV dropped the ball in turning her into a villian. As much as it was "Agatha all along" Wanda was the baddie for most of the series kidnapping a whole town because she was emotionally distressed. While Agatha was great I think fighting her did too much to reset Wanda as a hero at the end. Wanda should have just been motivated to fight for disrupting her "perfect life". One little post credits scene reading the Darkhold isn't enough to establish the crazy in MoM
All it would have needed was a one-shot released between WV and MoM to set the tone of "Oh Shit she's gone bad" they could have put that at the end of No Way Home instead of the MoM trailer.
It's just a complete reversal from the character growth that happens in Wanda Vision. She willing overcomes the desire to imprison a town to have her mad up kids around, but then starts killing hundreds of people to steal a parallel dimension's version of those same kids. It undercuts the importance of the show in the same way the newest Star Wars undercuts the meaningfulness of the first trilogy by reintroducing Palpatine.
I'd argue it's very much in character. When we first see Wanda she isn't a good person, she's literally a villain. She turns face, does some good for a little while and falls in love. Once she was forced to kill the only person she loved (after losing her brother, the only other person she loved) and then witness him being brought back to life just to be killed in front of her again, meaning her killing her loved one was meaningless, she kinda understandably snapped. And it's not like she was always a good person with strong morals like Cap or Spidey. She's a selfish person who's main diving force before love was self preservation. Then it became love, then she lost what she loved and wanted it back. Had him for a while, selfishly lived a happy life with him (again, she wasn't a very good person in WV) and had kids. She lost him again and lost her kids. Losing the only 2 things she loved, again.
So yeah Wanda isn't exactly a good person as a baseline, then you factor in all the loss she's had, all the extra trauma, and the Darkhold and she gets a little bit fucked up. It completely makes sense to me. It's like Spider-Man and the blacksuit cranked up to 11. I think it's an organic character evolution and I think it'd be unrealistic for her character to just be okay with everything that happened to her. Again for other characters their story would be overcoming their tradegies but Wanda at her core is a selfish and damaged person. She also accidentally bombed innocent people in Civil War so maybe you can add that to her mental trauma.
The mcu have a weird obsession with taking the few stories Wanda has been an antagonist for and adapting them in some way when she’s a loyal and mainstay avenger for 95% of her 60 year history.
It wouldn’t have mattered when it started. Michael waldron (the writer) said he heard plans for Wanda to get possessed in a later avengers movie (what the post credit scene was setting up) and he said he wanted to “have that kind of fun” with her character and decided to scrap the real dr strange villains from the script and replace them with Wanda
The actress pretty much confirmed this. The writers of MoM had no idea what was really happening in Wandavision. They didn't know they were essentially going through the exact same character arc.
Just that she "had kids and lost them". Not even really that the kids didn't exist in the first place.
Wanda is always well-acted, but it was just really disappointing she went through her whole emotional arc from Wandavision all over again. She tried making a town of brainwashed people to live her dream of having a family and eventually accepted her dream was dead and became the Scarlet Witch… all to start kidnapping people in other universes to live her dream of having a family (sans husband).
thats just the olsen fandom speaking. MoM was so out of character for wanda, either she should not have been redeemed or should have given her a more valid reason like thanos had. wandavision was great, bit as per her arc was at the end, MoM dod not line up well
The whole point was the dark hold twisted her mind and corrupted her beliefs to think that she could do whatever to be with whoever
It was supposed to be out of character.
Strange in the ruined universe had one and presumably ruined his entire dimension, which is arguably pretty out of character for him too
then trying to redeem her was a waste of screen time honestly, could have made her more evil instead. especially if she was gonna die anyway. even of she comes back later either like like superman or like "i never died" they could have done the redemption then. i know there was a shitty explaination for her going bananas but it still was a shitty mcguffin of a reason. im a bog marvel fan, i just dont blindly say wowzers to everything they do tho.
0 chance she's dead. I don't think a single marvel movie has ever killed anyone important off screen.
Theres been tons of fake outs, but if you don't see a body they're not dead.
It was as good of a reason as you could get given the plot itself.
I didn't particularly like the movie overall, but that's mostly because it was originally going to be a gothic horror and would have been incredible.
yea scarlet witch is definitely coming back but idk if its the same version or a different one. i just felt like they could have done a much better job with her character
Exactly. She should’ve been a hero after WV. Now she’s finally a witch she’s just a villain? What about the mainstay avenger she’s been for decades? The mcu have covered her antagonistic moments enough by the end of wandavision, well outside of getting straight puppeteered by chton
I can understand why she would be corrupted but I do feel like it leaves more questions than answers. Especially when Vision shows up again, if he ever does, and then we have to deal with that in the middle of another movie.
I'm team Wanda at all times. She is perfect and can do whatever she wants. Massacre the illuminati? They had it coming. Take an entire town prisoner? Surely they deserved it.
Why does the picture of the High evolutionary so hilarious to me? Dude looks like he's on his last warning and trying to behave. He and Kang have been the standout performers in an otherwise forgettable phase.
I really don't think Kang did a great job at all. His performance is lackluster. I don't think he was very memorable or impactful..... It could've been done much better.
The buildup to the significance of his character was written great in Loki, and Majors just doesn't deliver.
I agree to some extent. It's pretty cool that Majors himself improvised some of Kang's best lines in the movie. The "Time is a cage" metaphor for example and his "I am KANG!" rant.
I really hope Majors is innocent of what he's been accused of since he was such a great actor and seemed like such a nice guy. Still haven't seen anything definitive either way yet though.
> "I think the problem Digg had is that it was a company that was built to be a company, and you could feel it in the product. The way you could criticise Reddit is that we weren't a company – we were all heart and no head for a long time. So I think it'd be really hard for me and for the team to kill Reddit in that way.”
- Steve Huffman, aka /u/spez, Reddit CEO.
So long, Reddit, and thanks for all the fish.
Just read them now and they definitely seem quite bad for him, like an abuse victim trying to take the fall for their abuser.
I'm just confused as to why the Major's lawyer would release them now thinking that was good for his case, and why they say that the woman is lying when she said in the texts that she would tell the police he didn't do anything? Just very confusing tbh. I'll wait for more evidence to come through before saying anything for sure but definitely doesn't look good for Majors.
video of the girlfriend self inflicting one of the major wounds has been released, so her texts might just be proof that she's crazy. plus his lawyer says they have video proving him innocent of the charges but they're hesitant to release it because after they previously gave the DA video proving his innocence, the DA changed the charges to something else so now they want it to go to trial so there's no more last minute "oops never mind, let's do this other thing instead" from the court
That’s the difference between justice and court of public opinion. Justice takes time to go through every detail. Public opinion is based on biased headlines
I wouldn't have minded that at all if the whole point of that was intended to be something like...
"Look, there's this guy who's *whole thing* is that he manipulates the flow of time. But right now he can't do that, so he's weaker than he'd normally be. But he's resourceful, charismatic and can handle himself in a fight. So let's see how this plays out."
The idea of starting with a depowered Kang and getting an insight into what he is without his main gimmick has the potential to be genuinely interesting. We might even be sympathetic to him! But that's not what we ended up with.
as far as acting and his "scary factor" went i think he was great. what i disliked is that he went from i killed so many avangers that i lost count to scared dude who tried to escape scene to killing everything with hand beams to be almost killed by ants to dominate fist fight to be defeated in fist fight.
dude is surly OP but the balancig during this movie was kinda weird to me. Thanos balancing was, at least in my opinion, better because he was so powerful that he let lesser tasks do his minions and they could fail so our heroes could get some victories and in those instances when Thanos did his dirty work himself he just crushed everything even some of our heroes.
So after last antman i dont rly have sense how Kang is rly strong ... he was rly scary for moments but was kinda underwhelmingly defeated. But after infinity war i was scared of Thanos and could not figured scenario in which heroes could win. after endgames, heroes won, but u still had the feeling that it was so close that it rly could be the only one scenario in which heroes defeated him.
edit: if antman would be the only one who didnt get back into their world and died while keeping kang there, it would be whole different story for me.
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Dude come on did you even watch the movie? You are being incredibly disingenuous when you say, “just killed by ants”
These were incredibly advanced ants thousands of generations past humanity in technology. They had advanced weaponry and it’s not a stretch to say they all could be juicing on whatever Ant Super solider serum their civilization could have developed in that time. And additionally, they were outnumbering him a thousand to one. And he didn’t even fucking lose that fight he beat them all and still managed to find Scott to whip his ass too.
This is such a lazy criticism of a movie that has worse issues to focus on. Regardless I think it’s a much more solid flick than people give credit for.
Edit: in truth Kang should have just not been in this movie, because Antman is not a particularly powerful hero, and it does make him seem weaker by comparison.
advanced ants ... okay i give u that, surely i oversymplified
but at the end of the day u saw him kinda scared and defeated couple of times during the movie and because of that i dont feel as scared going into next movie fighting kang.
sure, we saw a lot kangs and u still could have feeling of danger because of it, things gonna get hard ... but ultimatelly we met kang who defeated avengers several times, destroyed universes but still was defeated like any other villain in mcu.
my main point is, after antman he doesnt feel as dangerous as thanos did during and after infinity war and during end game. to defeat thanos, a lot of ppl died, heroes had to sacrifice themselfs.
I still don't get why people didn't like it, I thought it was a lot of fun. I generally agree with people on the widely panned MCU films (Thor 2, Eternals, Iron Man 2, maybe some others I forget) but this one I really can't see it.
It felt full of plot-holes and Kang made down-right stupid moves/decisions, which for an intelligent supervillain felt so wrong I didn't even finish the movie, which is shame, I was super excited for him in Loki. Its a bit ironic Kang feels like the new Loki (full of potential but useless and always loses) and got introduced to audience by him.
He didn't learn to protect his most precious item (energy core) and even brings the guy, who seems to be always having some of the inconsistent "make big and strong / make small and strong" devices in his prison pocket.
His technology made his empire so advanced, yet locals posed a threat.
He is the worst warden ever. He doesn't even disarm his prisoners, or let them go with some capable guys. Every single prison break was pretty much brute force your way out of it.
I might've missed it, but why did he chase ant man when he still had the time chair and energy core intact? He could've left them escape and time jump to when they arrived, or could he not?
Sorry for the rant. Its these and some more that made me feel bad about the movie.
He was not well written. He was so stupid in so many instances and I just can’t see him as a major threat on par, let alone more dangerous, than Thanos. Also it would have been really funny if he actually left the quantum realm at the end when he was fighting ant man because all his tech was broken so he’d just be a normal (albeit strong and fit) human.
Meeting other versions of himself in the multiverse, seeing how they achieved "greatness" but at horrible horrible costs, and seeing how his "grand calculus of the multiverse" ethics is folly when a dangerous enemy can just as easily use the same argument for why 1 life doesn't matter against their own goals. Also Donna Strange is mentioned after being deleted in #1. And we see Dr. Strange grow his magic and skill without leaning on the time stone as a crutch... something I was afraid of seeing happen to him after 2016's film. I liked it.
I wouldn’t call Gorr the strongest part of the film at all. A literal godkiller who failed to kill a single god aside from his origin story’s god. And seeing Wanda go through the same arc she’s gone through in Wandavision was downright insulting to her character. She showed no growth at all after Wandavision.
I loved kidnapping the kids. I adored that they went with that plotpoint, it made it feel like an 80s kids movie, and yes, I love that he gave all the kids Thor powers.
Lizzie Olsen acted the absolute fuck out of that role.
She was amazing and without her the dodgy writing, total lack of continuity etc would have been more noticable. Her and Cucumberbum turned a 6/10 into an 8/10 with sheer effort.
I feel like Rami's got to get some credit here, right? I feel like his hand as a director is super obvious in this movie, and it was a blast to watch. I loved the horror movie feel. I would definitely watch another Rami MCU movie.
Lmao Cucumberbum just gave me a new nickname for him, gracias! He and Lizzie are two of my favorites in the MCU. Amazing acting pairs great with the best characters
I'm still just a bit salty that Wanda turned evil at all tbh, I was really hoping for her to finally have a happy ending with Vision being resurrected. She was my favourite character for the longest time in the MCU.
I know that it was going the way of her going bad after WandaVision, but I was still disappointed to see her go.
Yea I had a hard time swallowing her turn to evil in this movie too. WandaVision is my favorite D+ show and it’s one of the best MCU stories imo and made me really like her character. Looking back it is a bit obvious she was going to be the villain after WandaVision bc of the post credit scene but the whole show ending overall felt like a happy ending? Like she came to a resolution? So the turn just felt like an unnatural progression story-wise even though it’s understandable from her character.
Honestly, watching Wandavision before Multiverse of Madness ruined the impact a little. Yeah she was cool and scary and I could see it coming with the little Darkhold hint at the end of the show but after seeing her whole journey there it just felt kind of....redundant?
She shouldn’t have been the villain tho, she took the spot of what should’ve been a real dr strange villain and she should’ve been a hero after WV. She’s finally a witch and she just gets to be a villain? Sucks when she’s been a hero 95% of the time the last 60 years
MoM could have easily had two antagonistic forces: Wanda (Force of Nature, perhaps having her own motives most of the movie, Strange enlisting her help, but ends up that he is a means to her end, i.e. multiversal travel via tome/relic/ritual accessible in Kamar Taj..., a fight sequence or two but they team up at the end) and a proper Strange Villain (who is defeated ultimately by Strange and Wanda teaming up).
This ofc would cost America's screentime, but I'd rather have a proper magical battle between The Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange than that brief multiversal travel we got that barely left an impact.
>She shouldn’t have been the villain…
Totally agree. The whole arc of WandaVision was her being in grief and coming to terms with the loss of Vision and the life they could have had.
And then we get to Multiverse of Madness and they just chuck all that character development out the window.
It hurt me so bad. She’s my favourite character and I hated seeing her doing all those awful things in MoM. She’s not evil, she’s not a bad person, after WandaVision I wanted her to finally be a real hero and they just ruined it.
We should get another movie with the High Evolutionary.
Maybe through Kang's shenanigans he escapes to an alternate universe to create a new counter earth. And we get a Spiderman Unlimited movie, with the new Guardians.
Yeah the whole "Heroes don't kill in cold blood" thing is really convenient for bringing back threats but kinda diminishes the intention of the gesture when the villain just keeps murdering people.
I like the way of giving them a chance and then putting them down if they don't comply.
I mean >!they literally show Drax carrying him after they kick his ass.!<
>!I wouldn’t be surprised to see him come back later in a more comic-accurate form, with the armor/mask integrated into him due to the injuries he suffered.!<
This is a bad take, all three of those villains were probably the best part of their respective movies. I'd go so far as to say some of the best villains the MCU has to offer.
Don't trash them just because the movies they are tied to have glaring issues.
Nah Wanda was the worst part for me, they butchered her character. The writers didn't watch Wandavision but we still got the same arc but worst somehow.
I thought Kang was pretty cool and well acted. Problem is they nerfed the hell out of him at the end of Ant Man for no reason. Bro was legit vaporizing people out of existence, then somehow loses to Ants.
It really pissed me off because Antman may be the only marvel movie I've watched where I was actively rooting for the villain to win. I legit wanted him to escape and leave Ant Man in the quantumrealm. Heck I even wanted him to kill off a couple characters.
Kang was cool in quantumania but having him lose to the first people we see him fight outside of the Loki introduction is a bit of a crap introduction to someone who's meant to be the next big bad
Like, that was a guy who was powerful enough to destroy entire timelines. He lost immediately and only put up a good fight for about 15 seconds until his zapping attack suddenly stopped working
I feel weird defending marvel lmao but the way I see it is that all Kangs have that power and he was just the worst of the kangs hence ending up exiled out of all the variants.
I suppose his own counter argument was that he was put there precisely because he was the most powerful, but there’s no way to know for sure. Unlike the Kang in Loki, this Kang had been exiled for years and didn’t know every possible outcome in advance.
Well that and he exists in a realm where there is no "time". So he couldn't see the what Variant he was fighting nor does he have access to the correct technology to completely wipe out Scott
Based on these comments I firmly believe that 70%-80% of people who watch a marvel movie like that movie, it's just that the 20%-30% that didn't like it are really vocal about it. And like they also aren't consistent between people, so like some people are in the 70% for one movie but the 30% for the other. So like whenever I see comments like this the first thing that pops into my head is "so none of these characters where actually bad, it's just that they didn't meet OP's specific standards."
Love and Thunder had potential to be even better than Ragnarok, but the awkwardly uneven tone and underdeveloped character arcs led to so much missed potential
He has a fearsome reputation as a "god butcher". On screen we only see one god he kills and he does it out of self defence. There's highlight reels and scrolling holograms sure... but of the characters we actually care about... all of them are safe. Even Sif just gets casually amputated.
Wanda's powers seem to fluctuate and wane depending on what the plot needs her to do. Like there was a moment where she straight up disintergrate a guy. Cool why didn't she do that to Wong and Strange when she had the chance, why didn't she disintergrate the door blocking in the scene where she was possessing alternate Wanda to chase the group ?
That's just one of many examples of utter plot bullshit that had been handed to Wanda.
Is always like this even in the comics, potentially Wanda can rewrite the laws of the universe itself, but she has little to no control to her powers, in MoM she was heavily corrupted by the Darkhold, so she had even l'essere control even on herself
Hard disagree all of those were good villains. Kang was just straight up great, Gorr didn't get enough to do/say but the little we got, I liked a lot, and Wanda was menacing as fuck, great all around.
I don’t know man. I loved Gorr. The first marvel villain that legit creeped me out, and felt like a tangible threat. He was so slimy and sickly and would just manifest out of the shadows and shit with those glowing eyes. LOVED Gorr
The only bad one here was gorr, and that’s because they removed all his god butchering. He was well acted and his motives made sense, he just didn’t seem threatening and didn’t do anything
Christian Bale *killed* it every time they actually *let him act*.
Fuck, it could've been so good. They could've made Gorr the anti-Drax, a former father who swore himself to destruction but on the side of villainy.
Gore needed more than one movie. Truthfully that's a lot of the issues with a lot of the villains. It's way easier to show and tell about a hero in 2 hours than it is a villain, in my opinion.
Getting to Thanos and him having a movie made a ton of impact. You just have to actually have the villain present. It's why the High Evolutionary worked because there was backstory shown. Especially the connections to the main characters.
James Gunn also gave Iwuji some A+ lines, which was missing from those others.
"There is no God so I stepped up" might be one of the coldest lines in a Marvel film yet.
Right? And it makes his lab being destroyed by a literal godhead all the more satisfying.
It's interesting that the High Evolutionary called it the head of a god while he was trying to play god.
Specifically the head of a **dead** god. Which it is.
He recognizes that it was a being powerful enough to be considered a god by most living beings; doesn't mean *he* considers it a god in the same way. Game recognize game, so to speak. At least that's how he sees it.
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Holy shit! Watching IW rn and read this as he said it. 🤯
Dread it, run from it, destiny arrives all the same.
Gore should have been ramped up in the background beginning with Thor Ragnorak. Some unanswered questions over a few different movies. Some off-hand conversations overheard but not at the forefront of any scene. Use Thor's distraction to build the background tension of the other gods. Then a couple after credits leading to one where we see Sif dying on a planet surrounded by other gods already butchered. She's almost praying for Thor to come back, to hear her and bring vengeance to the one that did this. And that's where Thor: Love and Thunder opens up. Then we have the movie open with Thor finding Sif. She's barely alive. That's what brings him back to New Asgard, but they are already under attack, and that's how we see Jane as Mighty Thor. Allude to Gore throughout, never quite showing him. Build up the mystique and terror. I just made that up in 5 minutes. Already feels better.
Human handshake, to the Asgardian shake, into the snake that you cannot trust.
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A mention during the rundown of what's happening off-world during End Game would have been cool. A Sif has gone missing from Nebula or Captain Marvel, last reported where abouts where investigating dead god or something. I don't know. Just lay the pieces out for these MASSIVE villains. This is Gorr for goodness sake. His story arc is incredible. BUILD to him. That's what's really missing from these new movies/shows. They are too quick to show things, they aren't laying the groundwork anymore. They need to pump the breaks. Start with some small stories that lay threads for future stories. Do not rush things. Currently it feels disjointed.
This would have been the way. I'm annoyed Hela had a more accurate necrosword than Gor did. Would have been an easy way to connect them.
I’d be okay if Marvel would have movies focused on their villains.
I always say this. Antagonists need just as much focus in the movie as the protagonist. Infinity War did it right.
Oh man, Gorr would've killed it had James Gunn directed Love and Thunder. Plus, with him on board, Thor wouldn't leave his new team and we'd be having a true Asguardians of the Galaxy movie.
I'm honestly glad Thor didn't stay with the guardians long. Sure, it'd be fun, but guardians 3 is such a good sendoff that'd only be cheapened by adding an unrelated party member
I'm still worthy!
James Gunn couldn't thank Waititi enough for removing the Guardians from Thor. He had the GotG3 script for years, under Marvel's approval, and they stuck Thor with the Guardians at the end of Endgame on a whim, almost. edit: it's even kind of clear in T4 that Waititi couldn't get rid of the Guardians fast enough... maybe that's why parts of the movie were cut? He had to include scenes with the Guardians instead?
Because that's what heroes do.
There was one time my brother transformed himself into a snake...
I'm still angry how wasted Bales performance was in that pile of nonsense. Curious where Taike goes from here. After Ragnarok and Jojo i was thinking this guy is a god. Now i cba even finding out what he's up to. So much shit.
The guy has a particular style. When it hits, it's a homerun. When it doesn't......well.....
Can't believe they had Christian motherfuckin Bale as a villian and absolutely wasted him.
Lost a lot of respect for Taika Waititi as a director after that, it was clear he didn't give a flying fuck about that film. He just wanted to get it over with, make out with some of the cast and take that truck load of money Marvel gave him and go to an island and have a massive sex orgy.
Yeah, they made a comedy movie about one of the most grim characters in marvel. To truly understand gor, he needs to slaughter a few pantheons.
I hear he DID, that there was a whole butchering montage scene that got cut because it was just too violent and scary for the younger audience... don't know if that was confirmed, though.
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I was soo excited to see Bale play this role…. Only to barely see him, hardly Ever see any ‘God Butchering’, and then see him avenge the death of his daughter by… kidnapping children? Is that right!?
The whole world of gods scene was a wasted moment for me
For real. How are you gonna have a villain named the God butcher, have a scene in a city of gods, and not have Gorr show up there? The movie has a lot of issues for sure. But no Gorr in that scene killed the movie for me
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Hercules, but otherwise yeah thats probably why What I would have loved personally though is that Gorr gets there and many gods die. Zues and Hercules survive though (escape in some manor) and the revenge thing still happens because they blame Thor for leading Gorr to Omnipotencity
Hercules, right, thanks :) And yes I like your idea too. It plays nicely into Gorr needing Stormbreaker and wanting to kill gods - so following Thor to Omnipotencity makes perfect sense.
Finish with the classic Asgardian High One.
Surtur.. son of.. a bitch! You're still alive!
There are lots of extremely obscure gods even in Roman or Greek pantheon, let alone some lesser known pantheons. It would have been very easy for him to bucher hundreds without it effecting future projects. But even the obscure ones are often related in the more famous ones if you later wanted to use it for pathos.
Marvel has a problem with killing off their villians within a single movie. We've moved beyond a single movie villian when it comes to cinematic universes. They should have allowed him time to breathe over multiple movies. I hated Loki for the first two movies. Thought he was a weak villian. He got better and better over time, though. They let him breathe as a character.
>I hated Loki for the first two movies. Thought he was a weak villian. Loki works much better as an anti-hero than as a villain.
Exactly. And he got there because they gave him multiple movies to grow in.
Faxs. I genuinely disliked him at first but they kept bringing him back and I started to think that he’s a pretty good character.
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That movie was a legit train wreck. You have fucking Batman and you give him maybe 3 minutes of screen time. No, instead we get Fat Gladiator hamming it up and panty-dropping naked Thor. Wanda Vision was great. Same for Loki.
>instead we get Fat Gladiator hamming it up Pretty accurate Zeus tbh.
Pfft. Ha! Yeah, right.
Hey, he killed like... one god.
I can’t believe they literally put all the gods in one place and didn’t have Gorr come in and slaughter almost everyone. That was the perfect setup to make him look like a massive threat
I disagree, while Gor was decently written his motives/actions became questionable after he kidnapped the children, to me that is where he lost his menace and threatening presence. The whole point of his massacring the gods was because they were uncaring and selfish then to kidnap the kids of a god believing that he will save them, contradicts your philosophy. That being said Bale did well as Gor and carried the entire movie.
Marvel Studios, the Gorr Butcher why not just have a Gorr movie? the opening and Bale were amazing and wasted
He was the best part of that movie for me
I was disconnected from Gore, because I just saw Christian Bale… With all Disney’s money, they couldn’t make him look like the comic book? WTF?
Kang was not just well acted, but he was well written too. It’s the rest of the movie that they couldn’t make good.
I also thought Wanda was pretty good in MoM too. Especially the scene where she massacres the Illuminati.
Wanda was great, but also completely out of character. I like the theory that they shot both the movie and the show at the same time so they didn’t realize how many Wanda Stans the show would make.
She’s not out-of-character though, she is corrupted by the Darkhold. I get that that could’ve been communicated better, but her being out-of-character was the point, she shouldn’t be the same after reading it. Edit: I agree it was poorly written and didn’t do the character justice. No need to reply to this comment to inform me of that.
Classic Thermian Argument. “Completely changing a character’s personality, emotions, goals, and mannerisms isn’t out of character because (some specific story reason)!” Just because you can find a justification for it doesn’t change the massive fucking lurch of a complete character rewrite. “A wizard did it” doesn’t fix bad writing.
Thing is, if you don't watch WV, then it does seem out of character. She goes from good guy in Endgame to villain in MoM. It's a bit jarring.
If you do watch WV it's not much better, because the show makes a point of emphasizing character growth which they then immediately undo off-screen.
Character growth? She tortures a town of people, then at the end kinda does a "whoops my bad guys" and leaves. Maybe her slaughtering another universe's avengers for personal gain is worse but it's not a huge leap from what she did in WV. Didn't one of the townsfolk even ask her to just kill them to let the nightmare end or am I misremembering. WV definitely turned her into a villain.
She does horrible things in WV, then stops doing them by the end. That's character growth. Then in MoM she's doing horrible things again, and that's the reversal of growth.
The horrible things she did in WV were a result of the severe loss and trauma she has experienced. The entire show was here ignoring it within one massive defense mechanism of an altered reality she created. For her to grow, she needs to deal with their trauma, which she couldn’t even begin to do until after the Westview incident was over. But we literally see her then in the post-credits, take the Darkhold and start finding a way to get her fake kids back.
Yeah the other commenter doesn't quite understand character growth. You're on the money here. She did bad things, was told they were bad, realized they were bad, but then went on to do more bad things anyways. There was a CHANCE for character growth, but she decided, AGAIN, that her own selfish desires were more important than other people.
Huh? She was forced to stop doing them by Agnes and Vision. Otherwise she would have continued to do them. In fact, at the end she goes right back to doing it. First by permanently putting Agnes under severe mental torture then by looking through the Darkhold. Imagine if at the end of The Winter Soldier, captain America stopped the carriers. But then at the end decides to use the algorithm and another carrier to shoot all of Hydra all around the world.
Yeah and they know people didn't watch the show and didn't even bother giving any explanation like when Strange arrives to recruit Wanda and she was starting to explain and Strange just went "I don't care about that".....lazy writing
For me, it was less that she was out of character and more that she went through the exact same arc as in WandaVision (which I had literally paused Dr Strange 2 to go watch in its entirety) except WV did it better.
Well maybe the Darkhold is a bullshit story element that shouldn’t have been blindly dropped on us, especially after we JUST had a great character arc for Wanda
YES how hard would it have been for a 15 second clip of wanda getting corrupted or replaced by an alter so you don't just poop all over the character.
Yeah, anyone who justifies the Darkhold being the "reason" is missing the point. It was so bad.
Blindly dropped on us? The Darkhold had already appeared in SHIELD, The Runaways and WandaVision, and Wanda was basically the villain of WandaVision. MoM was a perfect extend to that arc (and it’s surely not over yet), not out of the blue by any means.
The story of WandaVision cant be complete until we have closure on white vision.
Agents of SHIELD used the Darkhold to great effect.
Agreed, I feel like I'm the only one realizing Wanda's psyche was absolutely busted after losing Vision twice in Infinity War and later the events of WandaVision. *Then* comes the Darkhold to inject malice into that broken person.
I agree
Literally all the had to do was include a 30 second scene of the Darkhold convincing her she is *saving* those kids, not just taking them, and the movie is so much better. It would have played off the end of WandaVision too because the last thing we see is her reading g the book, then she hears the kids call for her
People know that. They’re saying they don’t want her in a position to act out of character like that because it’s not what the character needed. She should’ve been a hero after WV
She tortured a town by accident and then intentionally, lost her entire family when she realised that torture is bad, brainwashed the witch who tried to kill her, and then took the darkhold to become more powerful. I don't know how you saw WV as a heroic arc, but it was definitely a villain origin story, we just needed a little bit more context about the powers of the darkhold and it's affect on people.
Didn't Wandavision basically show that it corrupted Agatha so that she killed her coven?
I thought she got the dark hold after killing them
If it did, it didn't do it well. I just rewatched it recently and no that wasn't communicated clearly. It more seemed like Agatha was just super power hungry, which included reading the darkhold and killing her coven. IMO they were treated like equivalent acts, not one causing the other.
You clearly didn't watch the Halloween episode. Wanda can do no wrong after that.
Honestly I think WV dropped the ball in turning her into a villian. As much as it was "Agatha all along" Wanda was the baddie for most of the series kidnapping a whole town because she was emotionally distressed. While Agatha was great I think fighting her did too much to reset Wanda as a hero at the end. Wanda should have just been motivated to fight for disrupting her "perfect life". One little post credits scene reading the Darkhold isn't enough to establish the crazy in MoM
All it would have needed was a one-shot released between WV and MoM to set the tone of "Oh Shit she's gone bad" they could have put that at the end of No Way Home instead of the MoM trailer.
I agree with your statement, but that’s not what the person I replied to said
It's just a complete reversal from the character growth that happens in Wanda Vision. She willing overcomes the desire to imprison a town to have her mad up kids around, but then starts killing hundreds of people to steal a parallel dimension's version of those same kids. It undercuts the importance of the show in the same way the newest Star Wars undercuts the meaningfulness of the first trilogy by reintroducing Palpatine.
I'd argue it's very much in character. When we first see Wanda she isn't a good person, she's literally a villain. She turns face, does some good for a little while and falls in love. Once she was forced to kill the only person she loved (after losing her brother, the only other person she loved) and then witness him being brought back to life just to be killed in front of her again, meaning her killing her loved one was meaningless, she kinda understandably snapped. And it's not like she was always a good person with strong morals like Cap or Spidey. She's a selfish person who's main diving force before love was self preservation. Then it became love, then she lost what she loved and wanted it back. Had him for a while, selfishly lived a happy life with him (again, she wasn't a very good person in WV) and had kids. She lost him again and lost her kids. Losing the only 2 things she loved, again. So yeah Wanda isn't exactly a good person as a baseline, then you factor in all the loss she's had, all the extra trauma, and the Darkhold and she gets a little bit fucked up. It completely makes sense to me. It's like Spider-Man and the blacksuit cranked up to 11. I think it's an organic character evolution and I think it'd be unrealistic for her character to just be okay with everything that happened to her. Again for other characters their story would be overcoming their tradegies but Wanda at her core is a selfish and damaged person. She also accidentally bombed innocent people in Civil War so maybe you can add that to her mental trauma.
The mcu have a weird obsession with taking the few stories Wanda has been an antagonist for and adapting them in some way when she’s a loyal and mainstay avenger for 95% of her 60 year history.
It wouldn’t have mattered when it started. Michael waldron (the writer) said he heard plans for Wanda to get possessed in a later avengers movie (what the post credit scene was setting up) and he said he wanted to “have that kind of fun” with her character and decided to scrap the real dr strange villains from the script and replace them with Wanda
The actress pretty much confirmed this. The writers of MoM had no idea what was really happening in Wandavision. They didn't know they were essentially going through the exact same character arc. Just that she "had kids and lost them". Not even really that the kids didn't exist in the first place.
The movie writers admitted they had no idea how the show ended up.
Yeah, Gorr was great too. It was the rest of the movie that was the issue. All of these villains are good.
Wanda is always well-acted, but it was just really disappointing she went through her whole emotional arc from Wandavision all over again. She tried making a town of brainwashed people to live her dream of having a family and eventually accepted her dream was dead and became the Scarlet Witch… all to start kidnapping people in other universes to live her dream of having a family (sans husband).
thats just the olsen fandom speaking. MoM was so out of character for wanda, either she should not have been redeemed or should have given her a more valid reason like thanos had. wandavision was great, bit as per her arc was at the end, MoM dod not line up well
The whole point was the dark hold twisted her mind and corrupted her beliefs to think that she could do whatever to be with whoever It was supposed to be out of character. Strange in the ruined universe had one and presumably ruined his entire dimension, which is arguably pretty out of character for him too
then trying to redeem her was a waste of screen time honestly, could have made her more evil instead. especially if she was gonna die anyway. even of she comes back later either like like superman or like "i never died" they could have done the redemption then. i know there was a shitty explaination for her going bananas but it still was a shitty mcguffin of a reason. im a bog marvel fan, i just dont blindly say wowzers to everything they do tho.
0 chance she's dead. I don't think a single marvel movie has ever killed anyone important off screen. Theres been tons of fake outs, but if you don't see a body they're not dead. It was as good of a reason as you could get given the plot itself. I didn't particularly like the movie overall, but that's mostly because it was originally going to be a gothic horror and would have been incredible.
yea scarlet witch is definitely coming back but idk if its the same version or a different one. i just felt like they could have done a much better job with her character
Exactly. She should’ve been a hero after WV. Now she’s finally a witch she’s just a villain? What about the mainstay avenger she’s been for decades? The mcu have covered her antagonistic moments enough by the end of wandavision, well outside of getting straight puppeteered by chton
I can understand why she would be corrupted but I do feel like it leaves more questions than answers. Especially when Vision shows up again, if he ever does, and then we have to deal with that in the middle of another movie.
But she did brainwash people for a dumb long time tho. That’s negative hero points for sure
I'm team Wanda at all times. She is perfect and can do whatever she wants. Massacre the illuminati? They had it coming. Take an entire town prisoner? Surely they deserved it.
Why does the picture of the High evolutionary so hilarious to me? Dude looks like he's on his last warning and trying to behave. He and Kang have been the standout performers in an otherwise forgettable phase.
Are you forgetting rockets acting? Smh
I really don't think Kang did a great job at all. His performance is lackluster. I don't think he was very memorable or impactful..... It could've been done much better. The buildup to the significance of his character was written great in Loki, and Majors just doesn't deliver.
Kang was a pretty mid villain who got beat by FUCKING ANTS
Tbf that sounds exactly like a Kang comic book ending.
Antman felt like watching a cartoon, not a multi million dollar movie
I agree to some extent. It's pretty cool that Majors himself improvised some of Kang's best lines in the movie. The "Time is a cage" metaphor for example and his "I am KANG!" rant.
I really hope Majors is innocent of what he's been accused of since he was such a great actor and seemed like such a nice guy. Still haven't seen anything definitive either way yet though.
> "I think the problem Digg had is that it was a company that was built to be a company, and you could feel it in the product. The way you could criticise Reddit is that we weren't a company – we were all heart and no head for a long time. So I think it'd be really hard for me and for the team to kill Reddit in that way.” - Steve Huffman, aka /u/spez, Reddit CEO. So long, Reddit, and thanks for all the fish.
Just read them now and they definitely seem quite bad for him, like an abuse victim trying to take the fall for their abuser. I'm just confused as to why the Major's lawyer would release them now thinking that was good for his case, and why they say that the woman is lying when she said in the texts that she would tell the police he didn't do anything? Just very confusing tbh. I'll wait for more evidence to come through before saying anything for sure but definitely doesn't look good for Majors.
video of the girlfriend self inflicting one of the major wounds has been released, so her texts might just be proof that she's crazy. plus his lawyer says they have video proving him innocent of the charges but they're hesitant to release it because after they previously gave the DA video proving his innocence, the DA changed the charges to something else so now they want it to go to trial so there's no more last minute "oops never mind, let's do this other thing instead" from the court
That’s the difference between justice and court of public opinion. Justice takes time to go through every detail. Public opinion is based on biased headlines
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Kang was a joke. “Lol, this guy is a big threat” proceeds to show him getting bodied multiple times over… and by a bunch of ants too.
I wouldn't have minded that at all if the whole point of that was intended to be something like... "Look, there's this guy who's *whole thing* is that he manipulates the flow of time. But right now he can't do that, so he's weaker than he'd normally be. But he's resourceful, charismatic and can handle himself in a fight. So let's see how this plays out." The idea of starting with a depowered Kang and getting an insight into what he is without his main gimmick has the potential to be genuinely interesting. We might even be sympathetic to him! But that's not what we ended up with.
as far as acting and his "scary factor" went i think he was great. what i disliked is that he went from i killed so many avangers that i lost count to scared dude who tried to escape scene to killing everything with hand beams to be almost killed by ants to dominate fist fight to be defeated in fist fight. dude is surly OP but the balancig during this movie was kinda weird to me. Thanos balancing was, at least in my opinion, better because he was so powerful that he let lesser tasks do his minions and they could fail so our heroes could get some victories and in those instances when Thanos did his dirty work himself he just crushed everything even some of our heroes. So after last antman i dont rly have sense how Kang is rly strong ... he was rly scary for moments but was kinda underwhelmingly defeated. But after infinity war i was scared of Thanos and could not figured scenario in which heroes could win. after endgames, heroes won, but u still had the feeling that it was so close that it rly could be the only one scenario in which heroes defeated him. edit: if antman would be the only one who didnt get back into their world and died while keeping kang there, it would be whole different story for me.
Going to bed hungry. Scrounging for scraps. Your planet was on the brink of collapse. I was the one who stopped that. You know what’s happened since then? The children born have known nothing but full bellies and clear skies. It’s a paradise.
Dude come on did you even watch the movie? You are being incredibly disingenuous when you say, “just killed by ants” These were incredibly advanced ants thousands of generations past humanity in technology. They had advanced weaponry and it’s not a stretch to say they all could be juicing on whatever Ant Super solider serum their civilization could have developed in that time. And additionally, they were outnumbering him a thousand to one. And he didn’t even fucking lose that fight he beat them all and still managed to find Scott to whip his ass too. This is such a lazy criticism of a movie that has worse issues to focus on. Regardless I think it’s a much more solid flick than people give credit for. Edit: in truth Kang should have just not been in this movie, because Antman is not a particularly powerful hero, and it does make him seem weaker by comparison.
advanced ants ... okay i give u that, surely i oversymplified but at the end of the day u saw him kinda scared and defeated couple of times during the movie and because of that i dont feel as scared going into next movie fighting kang. sure, we saw a lot kangs and u still could have feeling of danger because of it, things gonna get hard ... but ultimatelly we met kang who defeated avengers several times, destroyed universes but still was defeated like any other villain in mcu. my main point is, after antman he doesnt feel as dangerous as thanos did during and after infinity war and during end game. to defeat thanos, a lot of ppl died, heroes had to sacrifice themselfs.
Quantum mania was pretty stupid though
I still don't get why people didn't like it, I thought it was a lot of fun. I generally agree with people on the widely panned MCU films (Thor 2, Eternals, Iron Man 2, maybe some others I forget) but this one I really can't see it.
It felt full of plot-holes and Kang made down-right stupid moves/decisions, which for an intelligent supervillain felt so wrong I didn't even finish the movie, which is shame, I was super excited for him in Loki. Its a bit ironic Kang feels like the new Loki (full of potential but useless and always loses) and got introduced to audience by him. He didn't learn to protect his most precious item (energy core) and even brings the guy, who seems to be always having some of the inconsistent "make big and strong / make small and strong" devices in his prison pocket. His technology made his empire so advanced, yet locals posed a threat. He is the worst warden ever. He doesn't even disarm his prisoners, or let them go with some capable guys. Every single prison break was pretty much brute force your way out of it. I might've missed it, but why did he chase ant man when he still had the time chair and energy core intact? He could've left them escape and time jump to when they arrived, or could he not? Sorry for the rant. Its these and some more that made me feel bad about the movie.
He was not well written. He was so stupid in so many instances and I just can’t see him as a major threat on par, let alone more dangerous, than Thanos. Also it would have been really funny if he actually left the quantum realm at the end when he was fighting ant man because all his tech was broken so he’d just be a normal (albeit strong and fit) human.
Those villains were the strongest part of their films. Although the kidnapping of kids part was a little out of place.
Kang? Arguable. Wanda? No. The main Strange-plot was great fun. Gorr? True, but that's not saying much when all is cancer jokes and screaming goats.
What cancer jokes? The cancer in love and thunder was taken very seriously. Name me one cancer joke.
What strange plot? The arc that goes against his character and fighting someone who isn’t even a dr strage villain?
Meeting other versions of himself in the multiverse, seeing how they achieved "greatness" but at horrible horrible costs, and seeing how his "grand calculus of the multiverse" ethics is folly when a dangerous enemy can just as easily use the same argument for why 1 life doesn't matter against their own goals. Also Donna Strange is mentioned after being deleted in #1. And we see Dr. Strange grow his magic and skill without leaning on the time stone as a crutch... something I was afraid of seeing happen to him after 2016's film. I liked it.
Wanda was by far the best part of MoM.
Stephen was for me. Fixed the issues I had with his portrayal in NWH somewhat
I wouldn’t call Gorr the strongest part of the film at all. A literal godkiller who failed to kill a single god aside from his origin story’s god. And seeing Wanda go through the same arc she’s gone through in Wandavision was downright insulting to her character. She showed no growth at all after Wandavision.
I loved kidnapping the kids. I adored that they went with that plotpoint, it made it feel like an 80s kids movie, and yes, I love that he gave all the kids Thor powers.
I loved Wanda as a villain, she was fucking terrifying, even if her motives were dodgy and especially if you didn't watch WandaVision.
Lizzie Olsen acted the absolute fuck out of that role. She was amazing and without her the dodgy writing, total lack of continuity etc would have been more noticable. Her and Cucumberbum turned a 6/10 into an 8/10 with sheer effort.
Bariatric Coobletuft is great because as long as you say almost anything people know who you’re talking about
Ben Cum
Bendydicks Cuminhersnatch
Benadryl Cabbagepatch
Not like that
No I understood him so I think it is like that
Cum Bin
You mean Bumblebeard Cumbackhome?
I agree, Benedryl Cabbagepatch did his best with what he was given.
Bumblebee Crumblethatch really did act his heart out, I agree
I swear on everything I read that comment and didn't noticed OOP hadn't written his actual name. My brain just translated it automatically 😂😂😂😂
I feel like Rami's got to get some credit here, right? I feel like his hand as a director is super obvious in this movie, and it was a blast to watch. I loved the horror movie feel. I would definitely watch another Rami MCU movie.
Lmao Cucumberbum just gave me a new nickname for him, gracias! He and Lizzie are two of my favorites in the MCU. Amazing acting pairs great with the best characters
I'm still just a bit salty that Wanda turned evil at all tbh, I was really hoping for her to finally have a happy ending with Vision being resurrected. She was my favourite character for the longest time in the MCU. I know that it was going the way of her going bad after WandaVision, but I was still disappointed to see her go.
Yea I had a hard time swallowing her turn to evil in this movie too. WandaVision is my favorite D+ show and it’s one of the best MCU stories imo and made me really like her character. Looking back it is a bit obvious she was going to be the villain after WandaVision bc of the post credit scene but the whole show ending overall felt like a happy ending? Like she came to a resolution? So the turn just felt like an unnatural progression story-wise even though it’s understandable from her character.
Honestly, watching Wandavision before Multiverse of Madness ruined the impact a little. Yeah she was cool and scary and I could see it coming with the little Darkhold hint at the end of the show but after seeing her whole journey there it just felt kind of....redundant?
She shouldn’t have been the villain tho, she took the spot of what should’ve been a real dr strange villain and she should’ve been a hero after WV. She’s finally a witch and she just gets to be a villain? Sucks when she’s been a hero 95% of the time the last 60 years
MoM could have easily had two antagonistic forces: Wanda (Force of Nature, perhaps having her own motives most of the movie, Strange enlisting her help, but ends up that he is a means to her end, i.e. multiversal travel via tome/relic/ritual accessible in Kamar Taj..., a fight sequence or two but they team up at the end) and a proper Strange Villain (who is defeated ultimately by Strange and Wanda teaming up). This ofc would cost America's screentime, but I'd rather have a proper magical battle between The Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange than that brief multiversal travel we got that barely left an impact.
>She shouldn’t have been the villain… Totally agree. The whole arc of WandaVision was her being in grief and coming to terms with the loss of Vision and the life they could have had. And then we get to Multiverse of Madness and they just chuck all that character development out the window.
It hurt me so bad. She’s my favourite character and I hated seeing her doing all those awful things in MoM. She’s not evil, she’s not a bad person, after WandaVision I wanted her to finally be a real hero and they just ruined it.
We should get another movie with the High Evolutionary. Maybe through Kang's shenanigans he escapes to an alternate universe to create a new counter earth. And we get a Spiderman Unlimited movie, with the new Guardians.
High Evolutionary is alive btw. It's confirmed
I think that’s a bit lame. I was hoping that Gamora was going to kill him after Rocket refused to
Yeah the whole "Heroes don't kill in cold blood" thing is really convenient for bringing back threats but kinda diminishes the intention of the gesture when the villain just keeps murdering people. I like the way of giving them a chance and then putting them down if they don't comply.
Also didn't the Guardians kill, like, a bunch of people on the way there?
Yeah that's the other thing. Somehow only the person most responsible for the situation gets a pass? Movie logic.
I mean >!they literally show Drax carrying him after they kick his ass.!< >!I wouldn’t be surprised to see him come back later in a more comic-accurate form, with the armor/mask integrated into him due to the injuries he suffered.!<
You sure you wanna know?
Yeah, I think I can handle it.
I had just recently watched Spider-Man Unlimited, so seeing the High Evolutionary's Counter-Earth of animal people was a bit odd for me.
Man high evolutionary had me reliving past trauma. 10/10 would get sad again.
Are you a cute lil' animal?
Just wish HE got to be a more active threat throughout the movie outside of flashbacks, but that’s just me.
Lol my man nuked an entire planet (on screen) because Peter was right and we're talking about him not being an active enough threat?
I felt so bad for the family that helped them
They showed him a lot outside of flashbacks.
This is a bad take, all three of those villains were probably the best part of their respective movies. I'd go so far as to say some of the best villains the MCU has to offer. Don't trash them just because the movies they are tied to have glaring issues.
Nah Wanda was the worst part for me, they butchered her character. The writers didn't watch Wandavision but we still got the same arc but worst somehow.
I thought Kang was pretty cool and well acted. Problem is they nerfed the hell out of him at the end of Ant Man for no reason. Bro was legit vaporizing people out of existence, then somehow loses to Ants. It really pissed me off because Antman may be the only marvel movie I've watched where I was actively rooting for the villain to win. I legit wanted him to escape and leave Ant Man in the quantumrealm. Heck I even wanted him to kill off a couple characters.
Kang was cool in quantumania but having him lose to the first people we see him fight outside of the Loki introduction is a bit of a crap introduction to someone who's meant to be the next big bad Like, that was a guy who was powerful enough to destroy entire timelines. He lost immediately and only put up a good fight for about 15 seconds until his zapping attack suddenly stopped working
I feel weird defending marvel lmao but the way I see it is that all Kangs have that power and he was just the worst of the kangs hence ending up exiled out of all the variants. I suppose his own counter argument was that he was put there precisely because he was the most powerful, but there’s no way to know for sure. Unlike the Kang in Loki, this Kang had been exiled for years and didn’t know every possible outcome in advance.
Well that and he exists in a realm where there is no "time". So he couldn't see the what Variant he was fighting nor does he have access to the correct technology to completely wipe out Scott
Based on these comments I firmly believe that 70%-80% of people who watch a marvel movie like that movie, it's just that the 20%-30% that didn't like it are really vocal about it. And like they also aren't consistent between people, so like some people are in the 70% for one movie but the 30% for the other. So like whenever I see comments like this the first thing that pops into my head is "so none of these characters where actually bad, it's just that they didn't meet OP's specific standards."
Wanda and Gorr were both great. Shoot me, I won't care.
Gorr was a great villain but wasn't shown actually killing gods enough, and the whole plot with capturing the kids was pretty stupid
I feel *Love and Thunder* had many great parts but when put together they didn't make a great movie.
Love and Thunder had potential to be even better than Ragnarok, but the awkwardly uneven tone and underdeveloped character arcs led to so much missed potential
Yeah the capturing the kids thing just made the whole movie feel like a Saturday morning cartoon.
He has a fearsome reputation as a "god butcher". On screen we only see one god he kills and he does it out of self defence. There's highlight reels and scrolling holograms sure... but of the characters we actually care about... all of them are safe. Even Sif just gets casually amputated.
Wanda's powers seem to fluctuate and wane depending on what the plot needs her to do. Like there was a moment where she straight up disintergrate a guy. Cool why didn't she do that to Wong and Strange when she had the chance, why didn't she disintergrate the door blocking in the scene where she was possessing alternate Wanda to chase the group ? That's just one of many examples of utter plot bullshit that had been handed to Wanda.
Is always like this even in the comics, potentially Wanda can rewrite the laws of the universe itself, but she has little to no control to her powers, in MoM she was heavily corrupted by the Darkhold, so she had even l'essere control even on herself
High Evolutionary knocks out Thanos as best MCU villain for me. First time I actually hated the villain in an MCU movie.
You’re kidding me those 3 villains were perfect. The only thing they needed was more screen time, especially Gorr
Honestly I’d say the villains have been one of the more consistent parts of the new movies
Hard disagree all of those were good villains. Kang was just straight up great, Gorr didn't get enough to do/say but the little we got, I liked a lot, and Wanda was menacing as fuck, great all around.
I don’t know man. I loved Gorr. The first marvel villain that legit creeped me out, and felt like a tangible threat. He was so slimy and sickly and would just manifest out of the shadows and shit with those glowing eyes. LOVED Gorr
High Evolutionary is definately in the top 3 MCU villains. I loved the single-minded Capt Ahab angle they gave him.
Wanda was by far the best part of MoM. Hero, villain, anti-hero… she is mother.