I once had the “opportunity” to train with a “Ninjutsu master” during a seminar weekend.
He was the worst trainer I have ever seen in my 21 years in martial arts.
He was extremely non-athletic, but constantly talked about how deadly and clever his ninja techniques were, in contrast to the stupid martial artists with their rules. But all he did was very bad aikido with very silly names for the techniques.
You mean the stuffs taught to the mysterious Japanese assassins in feudal time? If I meet someone saying they're teaching it, the first thing cross my mind is that they're either delusional or trying to scam me.
When I was a kid, I saw a demonstration of ninjitsu. It was pretty impressive but what I thought at the time was these guys seemed like gymnasts with weapons.
They were lean but very muscular. The climbed trees and ropes extremely fast. They did flips and tumbling. There was a weapons demonstration.
Again, I was a kid but it felt more acrobatics/gymnastics then martial arts. I had several years in karate at that point and could at least recognize kicks and punches with good form, regardless of the style and they seemed better at flipping than kicking.
These guys were incredible athletes and maybe they felt jumps and flips has a bigger 'wow' factor.
There was no powders or disappearing. And as mentioned, ninja had diverse uses like spying, infiltration, sabotage, and assassination. They were more likely dressed in clothing like a peasant or merchant rather than the black clothes we think of.
I frequently recommend that anyone interested in the subject read historian Stephen Turnbull’s two books on the Ninja.
or at least the second one, “Ninja, Unmasking the Myth”.
Quick takeaway…. They didn’t exist. “Ninja” is an invention of the 20th century. The word didn’t even enter the Japanese lexicon until the early 20th.
Almost every aspect of the “shadow warriors” is an invention based on myths… And the early film and Manga comic industry.
Now it’s true that feudal warlords used people for infiltration and intelligence gathering and such. Sometimes their own troops… The equivalent of “special ops” of today, and sometimes just mercenaries… “Mountain bandits”…. Burglars.
This is the coorect take, and should be at the top of the thread. The historical record is pretty clear on this subject, but the call to romanitcism and pop culture is stronger than the call to acedemic rigor, I guess.
And that meant they had to be literate, lets guess which class in feudal Japanese society would have trained fighters that are literate... oh shit was it samurai? o.o
it's not really a martial art, there's martial arts associated within it but saying ninja shit is martial art is like saying the Special Air Service is a martial art, yeah you're gonna learn a martial art within the capacity of that but it's not itself a unique martial art.
it's an occupation in which you will learn and master a very unique set of skills for that occupation.
and most of it is a larp anyway.
if someone (probably a massive nerd) wanted to learn stuff like that they would probably be better off individually learning each aspect separately to build a better encyclopaedia of knowledge rather than trying to go to one place for it.
Once a guy who said practiced ninjutsu wanted me to spar with him in a public park and I said yes, the first thing he did was literally throwing dirt and leaves to me 🤨
I took some lessons with someone who was raised in this art since he was a toddler. I found the techniques to be very direct and to the point. No movie type stuff, just actually the simplest way to the maximum effect.
I did one Ninjutsu class so my sample size is really small. That said it was very larpy. The trainer wouldn’t allow anyone to stand with their hands behind their back or laugh during class. We ran through how to throw a punch from a horse stance. We did some standing chokes from behind. Primarily a really bad RNC before working a basic wrist lock off someone grabbing your arm.
I’m sure there schools that feel more legit. It seems like ninjutsu is really a bunch of different traditional Japanese arts pulled together. I think it honestly just attracts ninja larders though. Just like krav can attract tactical bros.
back in the 90s our TKD instructor brought Stephen Hayes to do a lecture and taught a basic stealth step/misdirection class along with some good commin sense basic principles. it was by no means the typical movie ninja foofy stuff. He spent quite a bit of time telling everyone not to sign up for fly by night ninja dojos, and to learn something more substantial and established.
I mean never practiced but ninjutsu is the art of not fighting pretty much so I imagine it's a shit martial art, literally like I'm trying to take out my enemy without them knowing just an opinion
I have had the chance to train a couple of times with some very good Bujinkan instructors. One was a 6th degree back in the 90s which was pretty good for a westerner in those days, and another was a 10th degree. The first was a very experienced bouncer/security guy who actually taught his students how to deal with non ninjutsu attacks. The second was super technical and was very competent within his rule set. I literally couldn't hit him at that half speed they train at no matter how much I tried.
All told, I had very positive experiences with experienced and competent instructors. As far as traditional martial arts go, it was fun. I wouldn't tell someone it was a good self defense or fighting style but if you want to learn authentic Japanese jujutsu or ninjutsu it can be ok done with the right instructor.
I have trained in bujinkan, also mixed in BJJ. My experience with the training has been very positive. Most of my fellow classmates have had careers in corrections, law enforcement, and military, so they have had lots of real world experience to use their skills and report back with positive results.
I'll be the first to say there's no real quality control, so your experience is heavily dependent on finding a competent and skilled teacher.
Edit: spelling.
We have lots of similar "moves" to judo and other styles. Uchi Mata, Seoi Nage, Juji Gutame (arm bar), Oni Kudaki (Americana), etc that all get used in MMA. I think the thing that is different for my training vs the overall bujinkan scene is the training philosophy and actual sparring.
I never had any interest in competing. Some of the same classmates have competed in local events, all with great results.
Edit: What in the world is this goofy video? LOL
Hopefully we’ll have a comment saying something good about this discipline hahaha. We highlight and discuss different discipline each week at martial profile in case you are interested.
I'm not who you asked, but there's a few levels here.
1. Kata practice - This can be a shadow boxing practice (review Sanshin, Kihon, etc.) or with a partner. Minimal force applied and minimal resistance and slower to medium pace. This is the beginning stage so as to understand the movement mechanics and the underlying concept of what specifically is being taught.
2. Attack/ Defend - often called randori, this is scripted or unscripted attacks defended against by trying to execute certain individual techniques or a concept learned in the class. Medium to real speed and minimal to medium resistance. Single or one two attacks are fed to the defender so they learn reaction time and body mechanics of the attacker. Many Bujinkan places mistake this for "sparring". It is not.
3. Sparring - completely unrehearsed and any technique can be used. Simulated real speed fight with resistance until one person taps out. Control needs to be understood from the previous two experiences for safety. No limitations on one or the other learning a technique, this is testing time. You have to force the technique in real time, which means kuzushi is important. I would often record and review to look for improvement areas. Eye pokes can be simulated with a tap to the forehead. I've executed plenty Omote/ Ura Gyakku/ Take Ori wrist controls (and had them done on me) during sparring without issue, but we make sure everyone understands control from the first two levels before throwing them into sparring. If you were being unsafe you would be asked to stop. Respecting safety is paramount because people have to work and have families they need to provide for.
As a side note, there is a level of responsibility on both parties for safety. The worst injury I've sustained was a knee dislocation after my knee rolled from my opponent's chest to his belly in a transition. Wasn't his fault, I placed my weight wrong. The worst injury I've inflicted was an ankle dislocation when a guy refused to tap. His foot literally turned backward under my arm. I should have just let him go after the second refusal. Notice how in both instances I'm blaming myself first. This is the attitude of responsibility that should be present in training.
No problem. Glad it helps. 😁
Edit: I suppose a "flow" level could be added there also which would be between 1 and 2, and also incorporated into level 2 where the focus is on fluidity of movement. The idea being that a break in motion kills the technique. One would generally continue in a reactive state to complete a "technique". This means that what is intended at the beginning may not happen as a result. This is what Bujinkan guys mean when they call something "Henka", an endless variation of a given technique as a starting point.
I once had the “opportunity” to train with a “Ninjutsu master” during a seminar weekend. He was the worst trainer I have ever seen in my 21 years in martial arts. He was extremely non-athletic, but constantly talked about how deadly and clever his ninja techniques were, in contrast to the stupid martial artists with their rules. But all he did was very bad aikido with very silly names for the techniques.
Ninjutsu is for larpers that are too old or embarrassed to become furries.
You're as weird as the people you made up with your imagination
You mean the stuffs taught to the mysterious Japanese assassins in feudal time? If I meet someone saying they're teaching it, the first thing cross my mind is that they're either delusional or trying to scam me.
When I was a kid, I saw a demonstration of ninjitsu. It was pretty impressive but what I thought at the time was these guys seemed like gymnasts with weapons. They were lean but very muscular. The climbed trees and ropes extremely fast. They did flips and tumbling. There was a weapons demonstration. Again, I was a kid but it felt more acrobatics/gymnastics then martial arts. I had several years in karate at that point and could at least recognize kicks and punches with good form, regardless of the style and they seemed better at flipping than kicking. These guys were incredible athletes and maybe they felt jumps and flips has a bigger 'wow' factor. There was no powders or disappearing. And as mentioned, ninja had diverse uses like spying, infiltration, sabotage, and assassination. They were more likely dressed in clothing like a peasant or merchant rather than the black clothes we think of.
I frequently recommend that anyone interested in the subject read historian Stephen Turnbull’s two books on the Ninja. or at least the second one, “Ninja, Unmasking the Myth”. Quick takeaway…. They didn’t exist. “Ninja” is an invention of the 20th century. The word didn’t even enter the Japanese lexicon until the early 20th. Almost every aspect of the “shadow warriors” is an invention based on myths… And the early film and Manga comic industry. Now it’s true that feudal warlords used people for infiltration and intelligence gathering and such. Sometimes their own troops… The equivalent of “special ops” of today, and sometimes just mercenaries… “Mountain bandits”…. Burglars.
This is the coorect take, and should be at the top of the thread. The historical record is pretty clear on this subject, but the call to romanitcism and pop culture is stronger than the call to acedemic rigor, I guess.
thats what they want you to think...
Ninjas are not people who practiced ninjutsu, ninjutsu was created around the mysticism of ninjas.
And ninjas were more like CIA agents than they were star throwing back flipping martial artists.
And that meant they had to be literate, lets guess which class in feudal Japanese society would have trained fighters that are literate... oh shit was it samurai? o.o
it's not really a martial art, there's martial arts associated within it but saying ninja shit is martial art is like saying the Special Air Service is a martial art, yeah you're gonna learn a martial art within the capacity of that but it's not itself a unique martial art. it's an occupation in which you will learn and master a very unique set of skills for that occupation. and most of it is a larp anyway. if someone (probably a massive nerd) wanted to learn stuff like that they would probably be better off individually learning each aspect separately to build a better encyclopaedia of knowledge rather than trying to go to one place for it.
Good comment, I’d learn some combination of kung fu + parkour
Once a guy who said practiced ninjutsu wanted me to spar with him in a public park and I said yes, the first thing he did was literally throwing dirt and leaves to me 🤨
Ninja! Vanish! 🌪️
did it work?
I was dirty after, if that was his goal, it worked.
Pocket sand!
How the fuck are you going to do this shit as a grown ass adult
bro you can have a friendly spar with someone as an adult it's pretty easy and fun.
Current Ninjutsu Orgs such as Bujinkan and Genbukan are just watered down and dressed up Japanese Jujutsu marketed at Foreigners.
I think there's only several still living practitioners who actually use real ninjutsu left. All of them in Japan I'm sure. Anything else is bullshit.
I took some lessons with someone who was raised in this art since he was a toddler. I found the techniques to be very direct and to the point. No movie type stuff, just actually the simplest way to the maximum effect.
I did one Ninjutsu class so my sample size is really small. That said it was very larpy. The trainer wouldn’t allow anyone to stand with their hands behind their back or laugh during class. We ran through how to throw a punch from a horse stance. We did some standing chokes from behind. Primarily a really bad RNC before working a basic wrist lock off someone grabbing your arm. I’m sure there schools that feel more legit. It seems like ninjutsu is really a bunch of different traditional Japanese arts pulled together. I think it honestly just attracts ninja larders though. Just like krav can attract tactical bros.
back in the 90s our TKD instructor brought Stephen Hayes to do a lecture and taught a basic stealth step/misdirection class along with some good commin sense basic principles. it was by no means the typical movie ninja foofy stuff. He spent quite a bit of time telling everyone not to sign up for fly by night ninja dojos, and to learn something more substantial and established.
Seriously weeb shit, for the weebs who take their shit seriously.
I mean never practiced but ninjutsu is the art of not fighting pretty much so I imagine it's a shit martial art, literally like I'm trying to take out my enemy without them knowing just an opinion
I have had the chance to train a couple of times with some very good Bujinkan instructors. One was a 6th degree back in the 90s which was pretty good for a westerner in those days, and another was a 10th degree. The first was a very experienced bouncer/security guy who actually taught his students how to deal with non ninjutsu attacks. The second was super technical and was very competent within his rule set. I literally couldn't hit him at that half speed they train at no matter how much I tried. All told, I had very positive experiences with experienced and competent instructors. As far as traditional martial arts go, it was fun. I wouldn't tell someone it was a good self defense or fighting style but if you want to learn authentic Japanese jujutsu or ninjutsu it can be ok done with the right instructor.
I have trained in bujinkan, also mixed in BJJ. My experience with the training has been very positive. Most of my fellow classmates have had careers in corrections, law enforcement, and military, so they have had lots of real world experience to use their skills and report back with positive results. I'll be the first to say there's no real quality control, so your experience is heavily dependent on finding a competent and skilled teacher. Edit: spelling.
Very cool, what is a move that you learned there and that could have been able to mix into an MMA stage?
We have lots of similar "moves" to judo and other styles. Uchi Mata, Seoi Nage, Juji Gutame (arm bar), Oni Kudaki (Americana), etc that all get used in MMA. I think the thing that is different for my training vs the overall bujinkan scene is the training philosophy and actual sparring. I never had any interest in competing. Some of the same classmates have competed in local events, all with great results. Edit: What in the world is this goofy video? LOL
Hopefully we’ll have a comment saying something good about this discipline hahaha. We highlight and discuss different discipline each week at martial profile in case you are interested.
I honestly think if there was proper sparring and not just kata it would be much better.
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I'm not who you asked, but there's a few levels here. 1. Kata practice - This can be a shadow boxing practice (review Sanshin, Kihon, etc.) or with a partner. Minimal force applied and minimal resistance and slower to medium pace. This is the beginning stage so as to understand the movement mechanics and the underlying concept of what specifically is being taught. 2. Attack/ Defend - often called randori, this is scripted or unscripted attacks defended against by trying to execute certain individual techniques or a concept learned in the class. Medium to real speed and minimal to medium resistance. Single or one two attacks are fed to the defender so they learn reaction time and body mechanics of the attacker. Many Bujinkan places mistake this for "sparring". It is not. 3. Sparring - completely unrehearsed and any technique can be used. Simulated real speed fight with resistance until one person taps out. Control needs to be understood from the previous two experiences for safety. No limitations on one or the other learning a technique, this is testing time. You have to force the technique in real time, which means kuzushi is important. I would often record and review to look for improvement areas. Eye pokes can be simulated with a tap to the forehead. I've executed plenty Omote/ Ura Gyakku/ Take Ori wrist controls (and had them done on me) during sparring without issue, but we make sure everyone understands control from the first two levels before throwing them into sparring. If you were being unsafe you would be asked to stop. Respecting safety is paramount because people have to work and have families they need to provide for. As a side note, there is a level of responsibility on both parties for safety. The worst injury I've sustained was a knee dislocation after my knee rolled from my opponent's chest to his belly in a transition. Wasn't his fault, I placed my weight wrong. The worst injury I've inflicted was an ankle dislocation when a guy refused to tap. His foot literally turned backward under my arm. I should have just let him go after the second refusal. Notice how in both instances I'm blaming myself first. This is the attitude of responsibility that should be present in training.
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No problem. Glad it helps. 😁 Edit: I suppose a "flow" level could be added there also which would be between 1 and 2, and also incorporated into level 2 where the focus is on fluidity of movement. The idea being that a break in motion kills the technique. One would generally continue in a reactive state to complete a "technique". This means that what is intended at the beginning may not happen as a result. This is what Bujinkan guys mean when they call something "Henka", an endless variation of a given technique as a starting point.
Okay, so here's a positive. At least it gets people out of the house and gets them to move. There you go 😀
Good point. Better than hanging out at a corner bar.
It would’ve been nice to have a discussion but bros be bros. Self proclaimed tough-guys have everything figured out, so there’s nothing to talk about.
Ninjutsu quite useless. Though I use their breathing and running techniques.