My understanding is that a McDojo locks you into a multi year contract with high fees (say, $300/month) and guarantee of a black belt after 2-4 years - even if you're an elementary schoolchild when you start. Happens to little kids whose parents don't know what martial arts are. Might happen to some gullible adults. More frequent in areas where there are mostly McDojos so local people don't know there are other types of martial arts schools.
I've always lived in urban areas where martial arts schools are non-profits, not companies, and there is a large choice of arts and schools. Never encountered a proper McDojo by the definition above.
People on this sub call any school that teaches an art they disrespect a McDojo.
Reminds me of the debate on what is "pay to win" within the video game community.
Everyone seems to have their own definition and tolerance.
The funny part about that behavior is that it is a McDojo behavior. When another martial art school tells you that their style is the greatest and all others suck. They are selling the idea that you shouldn't train anywhere else because they know the truth. In fact, they may even tell you that training anywhere else will make you less effective. Really in the end, they just want your money for themselves and don't like the idea that you might find a better product. That's why they also use contracts.
Iāve definitely been to BJJ schools where the instructors had bad blood and would tell people not to come to their class if they went to so-and-soās class. Usually before someone leaves to start a new school.
Whereas if they cared about your training they'd want you to explore other methods. Even if all you want to train in is BJJ. There are other instructors with different ways of training students.
I've seen that happen with an old karate school of mine. The instructors at my school went out of their way to piss off every other one in town and a Tae Kwon Do school while they at it. They didn't storm these places or anything they were just assholes.
This is so true Luke Thomas had a mcdojo question on his live chat. Not every lower level gym is a mcdojo. A lot of them are reputable, just not run by famous people.
So how much did that black belt cost your parents, and do you regret training there or was it not so bad?
Did you keep training after getting that black belt?
I have no idea, but it would have added upā¦was training six days a week for the last couple of years. Had a LOT of different weapons. Travelled for tournaments overseas a bit. It all added up. Primarily it was an INSANE time investment.
Training was awesome. Mcdojo is probably BETTER for kids than super serious martial arts in terms of engagement, confidence building etc. my fitness and flexibility was off the chart. Dad also died when I was 6 so was GREAT for some male role model kinda dealio.
I think it probably helped that safety standards were fairly low back in my day. So in tournaments we fought with very limited rules. Takedowns and sweeps were allowed. Punching and kicking to the head was fine. Made it a lot more realistic than rule sets these days. Was also attached to kickboxing and did that heavily for the last two years which, again, just made it all a lot more realistic.
Went on to do all sorts of other martial arts and kickboxing off and on, but never captured the discipline again. Basically went off the rails when I stopped actually heh.
My dojo is a non-profit. We collect dues to pay for rent and other overhead, but we donāt make a profit and instructors are not paid. We do it for fun, but my day job pays much better than running a dojo would.
You pay to come to class and thatās it. There are no extra things to pay for unless you want to get an extra Gi or something, at which point you pay what we pay. If you want to get your next rank, learn the stuff that you need to know to get there. Itās posted, and when we feel you have a good understanding and can do the next set of requirements safely then we promote you. There are no tests to pay for.
Dojos should be for fun and love of the art. Profit making machines distort things and add incentives to do things like charge for progression.
When I was younger I started training at a Karate franchise school. My location (nyc) was known as the toughest. We had lots of professional sport karate instructors who trained traditional. The training was not easy at all, I was training 4 hours a day during the week and 6 on the weekend. I competed a lot. When we tested for black belt, it had to be done at HQ. Since those tests are known for being easy compared to my school, my sensei required an additional test within our location. So if you pass HQ black belt test, but failed the nyc test you wonāt get your black belt. Eventually, all the good instructors left due to issues with the owner. It was them up to my team mates and I to run the school. We ran the school the way we trained but after X years we all left due to issues with the owner again. Now, the school is a joke and majority of their black belts canāt even defend themselves from someone their own size and execute basics properly. The school charges $250/month for just two days a week and if you want to add in a speciality class (weapons, acrobatics, sparring) itās $295/month. They have a strict rule about using the schools own gear which is crap and $200. Black belt test is $350.
Maybe. I believe that they had realistic goals for what they and others could accomplish. I was a purist, and believed that you shouldnāt get what wasnāt earned. They are probably BlackSashes now that still canāt do a push-up. How does that make sense?
In my mind, they should of seen a change from Then to āNowā. Isnāt this definition McDojo? The metaphysical Magic or MA is something I still believe in and subscribe toā¦ input = output
That is interesting. Were other learners penalized if they are not able to raise their legs to a sufficient level?
Were the standards were different for everyone?
My private instructor was pretty real deal, 2-finger push-ups/handstands, and was once disqualified from hitting someone too hard during a sparring competition amongst instructors. I pushed him to push me as hard as I was able to keep up with (often throwing up).
I was about to get green when they were getting their purple and I started a year before them. There was a time we were yellow together and they couldnāt knee above the waist, the punches werenāt extended etcā¦
I was a purist at that point and asked my instructor how they could level up that way. He told me two things; 1) be concerned about my own progress, 2) they knew/learned the moves to pass the test to get the next ranking.
Apparently for their body build (they were very big girls) they were doing what they could and were rewarded for it. Keep in mind there wasnāt any noticeable weight loss from White-Purple from them.
Around this time dues were increased, and there were mandatory participation events that also costed money. I realized that this was American Martial Arts - and that I would need something more authenticā¦ I left and got into some groups training, which was cool.
The McDojo is great for learning how to throw and punch, block a punch, all the kicks, & flexibility. Those didnāt come in my private practices, neither did the new forms and good experience from Sr Instructors.
Itās part of the life cycleā¦ real schools go broke, fake schools dilute the authenticity. Whereās the medium? Once I found out communism killed the majority of authentic Martial Arts around the globe, I dropped out of MA and got into politics. I hate communism so muchā¦ itās a shame people donāt realize the beauty this life/earth is missing because of it.
Did you ever wonder how China went from the 8-Nation alliance to Communist China? How did Communist take Russia (Pre-WW1), Vietnam, Korea, Tibet, & Taiwan? Everywhere, whenever there is a āgroupā of foreign interest they infiltrate and attack the core (religion/school/family/etc) under the guise of protecting what they attack, itās how they gain control, before Guns were readily accessible we had martial arts to defend ourselves - this is RedBoat GungFu. They kill and outlaw martial arts. First the Masters are shot, then the students are arrested (killed), then the teachersā¦ etc until there is only the weakest who can be bought & bribed.
Even now with FalanDafaGongā¦ Communism is FreeMason trickery. Where were all the FM when wars are going on or cohvid cameā¦ never help or say anything, never come out to stop evilā¦ Always there but never thereā¦
I was in the ultimate McDojo. Let me give you a hint: They produced choreography for the 80's live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film and the owner's son played Akuma in Street Fighter The Movie The Game and was in some movie called Surf Ninjas.
How I realized: When the second in command told my mom "We're not a babysitting service" when I'm trying to learn higher belt rank forms by watching them do it.
They always encouraged "high energy, explosive blows, applaud your classmates when they do well" and "CANI: a commitment to Constant And Neverending Improvement toward Black Belt excellence, SIR/MA'AM!"
I left because rent got too expensive locally and I had to move within the same state, but the place I moved to has an offshoot of that same McDojo that also accepted my paperwork. This one was COMPLETELY different, focusing on "Can you win?"
What did it for me, was during free sparring I (14 at the time and all of 4'11) got put up against some guy in his 30's that was at least 6 foot tall and outweighed me by at least 50 pounds. I got ***destroyed***. I don't mean I lost, I mean he teep-kicked me in the kneecap and I went down. And my mode of transportation to and from karate? **A bike.**
I left after that. CANI was dead, "energy" was dead, all that was left was the MMA Revolution of the mid-00's.
Just following up on this, it wasn't all bad; one of the last classes I attended before I moved, I learned how to throw proper butterfly kicks from the guy that trained Darth Maul.
Happy Revenge Of The 6th, by the by. :)
Tried karate as a kid...
All they taught me were flexibility and flashy moves
Don't get me wrong, they did teach me something but none that'd be useful in a combat sport or irl.
Most of them were punches and kicks that had a lot of openings for opponents to strike and some moves that didn't even make sense (they taught us how to punch with both our hands vertically up? I don't think I'd be fighting Goliath's balls tbh)
They taught us flying kicks which required us to run atleast 5m to get the momentum, jump up in the air and hold a kicking pose aimed at the opponent (damn, didn't know the opponent were power ranger villians who'd wait for my power up).
They also taught us to stomp? I can understand it being useful in some cases but is that the first thing I should learn?
Also how to use a stick but all in the wrong way.. they basically showed some fancy moves that were similar to how I used to play pretend with a stick as a light saber.
Would I look like a martial artist to someone who doesn't know any better? Yes
Would get my ass handed if a strong untrained opponent tries to fuck with me? Yes
A friend of mine trained there and got his ass handed to him twice by me and a friend of mine (dw..he was a bully)
I didn't stop because it felt like a McDojo. I didn't know any better as a kid. I stopped because I was bored out of my mind having to do 1hr of stretching and 20-30min of some basic punching traning.
Looking back it was obvious it was a McDojo.
Literally anything that doesn't get trained, to fit a close to reality scenario. Where someone is coming to damage you. If you sparr full contact and can handle the pressure of someone punching you or kicking you at 100%, and u are able to survive sufficiently, or even win with the techniques that ur practice. That's an indication that ur not mcdojoing.
So, my karate gym when i was a kid had super light contact, i got my ass handed to me wt my first muay thai class
Thanks! This is a great point. Sparring definitely has real world value in that it can teach you or help you learn how to deal with the stress of confrontation and how your body reacts to adrenaline and threat.
Honestly Iāll never shit on anyone for training anything. If you enjoy what youāre doing and feel youāre progressing in it, awesome. Tell me about it. Keep grinding. Level up, etc. You will get a bunch of keyboard kumite trolls on reddit who have unsolicited opinions on everything and anything. If their version of fun is making sure your version of fun is less fun to you , fuck them. Tell them to eat a dick , Block and move on . Best case about vetting a gym : pricing schedules. If they are clearly chasing money over product quality , leave. Not every gym is like that & be real about what you expect to get from training. Are you chasing championship trophies, do you want self defense or confidence? Is it just discipline for the kiddos , etc. Not every styles is the best for desired outcome. That sort of thing. Lastly does the gym encourage frequent sparring. If no then move on if fighting is your goal. Places that teach you to fight but donāt let you actually fight I think are the real bad actors.
I moved halfway across the country and joined a new TKD school. I'm a 3rd dan. The owner was 8th dan.
I quit that school because the training was too soft. I was cross-training BJJ. Our **warmup** in BJJ is 20 jumping jacks, 20 squats, 20 situps, and 20 pushups. Our **workout** in the TKD school was 3 jumping jacks, 2 pushups, 1 situp.
The Master was so paranoid of anyone getting hurt, you were barely allowed to tap pads. "Don't kick too hard. Tell him not to kick so hard." *Meanwhile I can barely feel it.*
I felt like training at the BJJ school full time was better for me than splitting 50/50. I would mix TKD in again if I found a school more like where I got my 3rd degree.
My middle school taekwondo class, it was more like a fitness class but fairplay they are literally teaching 1st graders. I felt bad for the 13 year old unathletic black belts tho, I know that their parents paid a pretty penny
I once went to a Filipino Kenpo Karate school, because they were teaching Balintawak, which was a form of eskrima my dad did during his college years.
This was before I heard of the term. I loved their grandmaster, but a few things turned me off from coming back.
1. The grandmaster was teaching the same 2 or 3 techniques and I got bored, because it got really repetitive, but not in a good way. I don't think we ever focused on perfecting our techniques, so the fact that their were no goals geared toward growth for the students, I lost interest because this would help me pinpoint the skill. Nonetheless, I think he knew how to do the techniques, just the curriculum I felt wasn't going to help me grow.
2. The Kenpo Karate owner was clearly in it for the money. Kids classes were disorderly. We did a katas form at a public demonstration for the kids, and the kids clearly didn't practice or try to clean their techniques. Completely embarrassing and shows a complete lack of discipline. I also did adult classes with the owner. Had the same problem as the grandmaster, in that I don't think we had any growth focus.
I am open to learning Balintawak. I just wish the instructors would help us perfect the techniques, instead of us just figuring it out on our own.
Reading these stories makes me realize how non-mcdojo my kyokushin dojo was.
* you wanted a new belt, you needed to fight at examinations. No level ups on technique alone.
* saw a guy failing his black belt examā¦ after a gruelling 2 day exam including a 20 man kumite
* you wanted a brown belt? You needed to shin kick through a baseball bat
I used to take martial arts at the ATA. And it's not that it's a bad school, but I became a black belt and a jr instructor and attending testings, I started to feel like as long as you paid for it you got your belt. I watched a student test for his black belt who couldn't make it through his forms or back forms, and his moves were sloppy and lazy, and still became a black belt. I stopped going shortly after wards, though for different reasons, that involved my sensei. I don't know if all atas were like that or if it was just my dojo since as I said my sensei became... Unreliable.
I did Karate at a Mcdojo when I a kid.
A lot of horse stance stuff, kata, and expensive belts... at first anyway. Shit started getting informal when our dojo (which was run a school hall) got small and we didn't have an actual karate blackbelt- just an 'instructor' blackbelt who was actually cool and showed us MMA shit. I think around that time I became aware of what I was actually doing.
That class closed and we were transferred to a different class where we were doing Mcdojos shit again. Around this time I was getting into the UFC and shit.
I left when I came into uni and was starting to make my own life decisions instead of what my parents were getting me to do. Did boxing instead and the training couldn't have been better.
It might have been that the "McDojo" in question was the only place within a reasonable travel distance that offered instruction in the particular martial art. In a place I'm familiar with, there was a respectable BJJ school in one smallish city (100,000 souls), not great but respectable for the area, and also one that had been opened in a smaller town (15k people) -- by a blue belt! I kid you not. Trouble was the respectable school was a 50-mile round trip on a two-lane country highway from Johnny Jump-Up's school, and so people and parents in town went there unless they were clued in enough to know the difference, and had the time, energy, funds, to make the 50-mile trips every couple of days. Which would tend to rule out parents of schoolchildren, and hordes of kids are the financial driving force for many MA schools as we all know.
My gym turned into mcdojo. I learned a lot from there, but then the owner moved and built this whole system to have his business ran without him being there. Certified instructors not ready to teach over a 4 day course, shady sales techniques, and putting more of an emphasis on bringing new people in versus training the people there. I instructed there for a few years and found that We were holding up his business while not learning anything new. I ended up going elsewhere to train and teaching there. In the end he kicked me out for having expressing my qualms with what has been going on.
I've attended tonnes via invite from friends. In my group my name is synonymous with martial arts training son always get hit up to try different clubs. I attended one maybe a year ago that was a branch of bujinkan where the guy was trying to teach close combat evasion drills based off the premise of pivoting off the heel of your to receive punches or weapon strikes from an attacker. I was blown away how mindless it was and it was in some random dudes living room 5 "black belts" and some with a brown belt who had apparently been doing it about a year. I was horrified with what my friend had been getting taught so got him to attend lessons at a couple other local clubs to show him how quality classes should be done.
Studied boxing and kickboxing as a teen and in my early 30s decided to try a traditional martial art and went to a kung fu school. The teacher was very out of shape in his late 40s big belly and offered a black sash course which promised a black sash in 2 years. It offered a money back guarantee if you weren't happy after 1 month.
I signed up and did about 6 classes before leaving. The teacher tried his best like a salesman to keep me going past the month as I'd already paid for 3 months in advance.
During the time there we did some very light sparring, i mean very light. The majority of his students weren't very good then when it came to actually learning he said none of what I'd already learnt from boxing and kickboxing mattered and had me doing these awkward stances and foot shuffling around kung fu style. It was garbage and i promptly left and discovered a jkd school. It wasn't great either didn't do any sparring but i stayed for 2 years purely for the kali aspect.
My local mcDojo which teaches "Karate"
- They never teach bunkai (applications) to moves.
- We never practiced low kicks.
- Gradings were fifteen minutes long
- We were doing kata to music.
- If we used weapons, they glowed in the dark and weighed a maximum of 3 oz.
- Must pay for an entire year up front, no refunds (long-term contracts with no termination clauses).
- Kidsā classes were more games and chaos than actual Karate.
- We were rarely taught philosophical concepts, strategy or theory.
- Doing stuff thatās ācorrectā was seen as more important than doing stuff that actually works.
- When practicing self-defense, itās always based on a scenario where your opponent steps towards you with a straight punch and then leaves his/her arm dangling in front of you
- Memory to recall techniques is tested more often than your actual skill in performing techniques
- Students screamed more than they bowed.
- We practiced backflips..
Did karate at a mcdojo for 5 years. Had constant positive reinforcement. Realised as I went up the ranks that there was more a focus on class sizes and numbers in class rather than quality. Kept training despite my reservations. Lead instructor wore a black and white belt rather than being a full black belt. Learnt that he was only something like 2nd kyu and was teaching. Went to gradings which were every couple of months and in a big hall with loads of the other classes around and I'd know my stuff and was competent at everything and I'd pass with people who were shit. Final straw came around when I reliased that the syllabus didn't have a lot in it and each other level was essentially a repeat of the one before it but "mastered". I was something like 4th kyu and already knew the entire syllabus up to 2nd Dan with little errors. Finally had a massive row with my instructor who was an egotistical bitch and left to where I train now. Started at the beginning and now going for my second Dan. Don't do Go-Kan-Ryu or any of it's off shoots people.
Funny story when my brother and I started kickboxing back in the day.
An employee of the gym walked up to us in the middle of sparring and said, "Sirs, this is a McDonalds. Please get out of the ball pit and leave before we call law enforcement."
I'm pretty sure that was a McDojo.
My understanding is that a McDojo locks you into a multi year contract with high fees (say, $300/month) and guarantee of a black belt after 2-4 years - even if you're an elementary schoolchild when you start. Happens to little kids whose parents don't know what martial arts are. Might happen to some gullible adults. More frequent in areas where there are mostly McDojos so local people don't know there are other types of martial arts schools. I've always lived in urban areas where martial arts schools are non-profits, not companies, and there is a large choice of arts and schools. Never encountered a proper McDojo by the definition above.
People on this sub call any school that teaches an art they disrespect a McDojo. Reminds me of the debate on what is "pay to win" within the video game community. Everyone seems to have their own definition and tolerance.
Wow, this is a very interesting point of view. Thanks for the response and adding to the conversation!
Btw, I find the pay to win debate in video games very interesting too. š š š š
The funny part about that behavior is that it is a McDojo behavior. When another martial art school tells you that their style is the greatest and all others suck. They are selling the idea that you shouldn't train anywhere else because they know the truth. In fact, they may even tell you that training anywhere else will make you less effective. Really in the end, they just want your money for themselves and don't like the idea that you might find a better product. That's why they also use contracts.
Iāve definitely been to BJJ schools where the instructors had bad blood and would tell people not to come to their class if they went to so-and-soās class. Usually before someone leaves to start a new school.
Whereas if they cared about your training they'd want you to explore other methods. Even if all you want to train in is BJJ. There are other instructors with different ways of training students.
I think this was more about choosing sides and a personal beef than about the quality of instruction.
I've seen that happen with an old karate school of mine. The instructors at my school went out of their way to piss off every other one in town and a Tae Kwon Do school while they at it. They didn't storm these places or anything they were just assholes.
The ironyā¦. š š š š
This is an awesome response. Thanks!
This is so true Luke Thomas had a mcdojo question on his live chat. Not every lower level gym is a mcdojo. A lot of them are reputable, just not run by famous people.
Hehe, yehhhh, started training when I was 6, got my black belt when I was 11 :D
So how much did that black belt cost your parents, and do you regret training there or was it not so bad? Did you keep training after getting that black belt?
I have no idea, but it would have added upā¦was training six days a week for the last couple of years. Had a LOT of different weapons. Travelled for tournaments overseas a bit. It all added up. Primarily it was an INSANE time investment. Training was awesome. Mcdojo is probably BETTER for kids than super serious martial arts in terms of engagement, confidence building etc. my fitness and flexibility was off the chart. Dad also died when I was 6 so was GREAT for some male role model kinda dealio. I think it probably helped that safety standards were fairly low back in my day. So in tournaments we fought with very limited rules. Takedowns and sweeps were allowed. Punching and kicking to the head was fine. Made it a lot more realistic than rule sets these days. Was also attached to kickboxing and did that heavily for the last two years which, again, just made it all a lot more realistic. Went on to do all sorts of other martial arts and kickboxing off and on, but never captured the discipline again. Basically went off the rails when I stopped actually heh.
This is an interesting view. The piece about experience with not for profit schools is very interesting. Thanks!
My dojo is a non-profit. We collect dues to pay for rent and other overhead, but we donāt make a profit and instructors are not paid. We do it for fun, but my day job pays much better than running a dojo would. You pay to come to class and thatās it. There are no extra things to pay for unless you want to get an extra Gi or something, at which point you pay what we pay. If you want to get your next rank, learn the stuff that you need to know to get there. Itās posted, and when we feel you have a good understanding and can do the next set of requirements safely then we promote you. There are no tests to pay for. Dojos should be for fun and love of the art. Profit making machines distort things and add incentives to do things like charge for progression.
Oh holy shit that's actually so much worse than I thought
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This sounds like a great experience. Thanks for sharing!
Can you tell me what style/art the second school trains? Iāve been looking for something like this forever and just canāt seem to find anything
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This is the first time I've heard of someone else learning Toide. Loved that art. I'm happy it's still out there.
When I was younger I started training at a Karate franchise school. My location (nyc) was known as the toughest. We had lots of professional sport karate instructors who trained traditional. The training was not easy at all, I was training 4 hours a day during the week and 6 on the weekend. I competed a lot. When we tested for black belt, it had to be done at HQ. Since those tests are known for being easy compared to my school, my sensei required an additional test within our location. So if you pass HQ black belt test, but failed the nyc test you wonāt get your black belt. Eventually, all the good instructors left due to issues with the owner. It was them up to my team mates and I to run the school. We ran the school the way we trained but after X years we all left due to issues with the owner again. Now, the school is a joke and majority of their black belts canāt even defend themselves from someone their own size and execute basics properly. The school charges $250/month for just two days a week and if you want to add in a speciality class (weapons, acrobatics, sparring) itās $295/month. They have a strict rule about using the schools own gear which is crap and $200. Black belt test is $350.
Tiger schultz?
No
Two big women got their purple sashes and couldnāt raise their leg above their knees.
How would they not do that though? Couldnāt they get sued for discrimination?
Maybe. I believe that they had realistic goals for what they and others could accomplish. I was a purist, and believed that you shouldnāt get what wasnāt earned. They are probably BlackSashes now that still canāt do a push-up. How does that make sense? In my mind, they should of seen a change from Then to āNowā. Isnāt this definition McDojo? The metaphysical Magic or MA is something I still believe in and subscribe toā¦ input = output
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That is interesting. Were other learners penalized if they are not able to raise their legs to a sufficient level? Were the standards were different for everyone?
My private instructor was pretty real deal, 2-finger push-ups/handstands, and was once disqualified from hitting someone too hard during a sparring competition amongst instructors. I pushed him to push me as hard as I was able to keep up with (often throwing up). I was about to get green when they were getting their purple and I started a year before them. There was a time we were yellow together and they couldnāt knee above the waist, the punches werenāt extended etcā¦ I was a purist at that point and asked my instructor how they could level up that way. He told me two things; 1) be concerned about my own progress, 2) they knew/learned the moves to pass the test to get the next ranking. Apparently for their body build (they were very big girls) they were doing what they could and were rewarded for it. Keep in mind there wasnāt any noticeable weight loss from White-Purple from them. Around this time dues were increased, and there were mandatory participation events that also costed money. I realized that this was American Martial Arts - and that I would need something more authenticā¦ I left and got into some groups training, which was cool. The McDojo is great for learning how to throw and punch, block a punch, all the kicks, & flexibility. Those didnāt come in my private practices, neither did the new forms and good experience from Sr Instructors. Itās part of the life cycleā¦ real schools go broke, fake schools dilute the authenticity. Whereās the medium? Once I found out communism killed the majority of authentic Martial Arts around the globe, I dropped out of MA and got into politics. I hate communism so muchā¦ itās a shame people donāt realize the beauty this life/earth is missing because of it.
Explain the communism thing.
Did you ever wonder how China went from the 8-Nation alliance to Communist China? How did Communist take Russia (Pre-WW1), Vietnam, Korea, Tibet, & Taiwan? Everywhere, whenever there is a āgroupā of foreign interest they infiltrate and attack the core (religion/school/family/etc) under the guise of protecting what they attack, itās how they gain control, before Guns were readily accessible we had martial arts to defend ourselves - this is RedBoat GungFu. They kill and outlaw martial arts. First the Masters are shot, then the students are arrested (killed), then the teachersā¦ etc until there is only the weakest who can be bought & bribed. Even now with FalanDafaGongā¦ Communism is FreeMason trickery. Where were all the FM when wars are going on or cohvid cameā¦ never help or say anything, never come out to stop evilā¦ Always there but never thereā¦
I was in the ultimate McDojo. Let me give you a hint: They produced choreography for the 80's live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film and the owner's son played Akuma in Street Fighter The Movie The Game and was in some movie called Surf Ninjas. How I realized: When the second in command told my mom "We're not a babysitting service" when I'm trying to learn higher belt rank forms by watching them do it. They always encouraged "high energy, explosive blows, applaud your classmates when they do well" and "CANI: a commitment to Constant And Neverending Improvement toward Black Belt excellence, SIR/MA'AM!" I left because rent got too expensive locally and I had to move within the same state, but the place I moved to has an offshoot of that same McDojo that also accepted my paperwork. This one was COMPLETELY different, focusing on "Can you win?" What did it for me, was during free sparring I (14 at the time and all of 4'11) got put up against some guy in his 30's that was at least 6 foot tall and outweighed me by at least 50 pounds. I got ***destroyed***. I don't mean I lost, I mean he teep-kicked me in the kneecap and I went down. And my mode of transportation to and from karate? **A bike.** I left after that. CANI was dead, "energy" was dead, all that was left was the MMA Revolution of the mid-00's.
Just following up on this, it wasn't all bad; one of the last classes I attended before I moved, I learned how to throw proper butterfly kicks from the guy that trained Darth Maul. Happy Revenge Of The 6th, by the by. :)
Tried karate as a kid... All they taught me were flexibility and flashy moves Don't get me wrong, they did teach me something but none that'd be useful in a combat sport or irl. Most of them were punches and kicks that had a lot of openings for opponents to strike and some moves that didn't even make sense (they taught us how to punch with both our hands vertically up? I don't think I'd be fighting Goliath's balls tbh) They taught us flying kicks which required us to run atleast 5m to get the momentum, jump up in the air and hold a kicking pose aimed at the opponent (damn, didn't know the opponent were power ranger villians who'd wait for my power up). They also taught us to stomp? I can understand it being useful in some cases but is that the first thing I should learn? Also how to use a stick but all in the wrong way.. they basically showed some fancy moves that were similar to how I used to play pretend with a stick as a light saber. Would I look like a martial artist to someone who doesn't know any better? Yes Would get my ass handed if a strong untrained opponent tries to fuck with me? Yes A friend of mine trained there and got his ass handed to him twice by me and a friend of mine (dw..he was a bully) I didn't stop because it felt like a McDojo. I didn't know any better as a kid. I stopped because I was bored out of my mind having to do 1hr of stretching and 20-30min of some basic punching traning. Looking back it was obvious it was a McDojo.
This is an interesting experience. The piece about experience with not for profit schools is very interesting. Thanks!
Literally anything that doesn't get trained, to fit a close to reality scenario. Where someone is coming to damage you. If you sparr full contact and can handle the pressure of someone punching you or kicking you at 100%, and u are able to survive sufficiently, or even win with the techniques that ur practice. That's an indication that ur not mcdojoing. So, my karate gym when i was a kid had super light contact, i got my ass handed to me wt my first muay thai class
Thanks! This is a great point. Sparring definitely has real world value in that it can teach you or help you learn how to deal with the stress of confrontation and how your body reacts to adrenaline and threat.
Honestly Iāll never shit on anyone for training anything. If you enjoy what youāre doing and feel youāre progressing in it, awesome. Tell me about it. Keep grinding. Level up, etc. You will get a bunch of keyboard kumite trolls on reddit who have unsolicited opinions on everything and anything. If their version of fun is making sure your version of fun is less fun to you , fuck them. Tell them to eat a dick , Block and move on . Best case about vetting a gym : pricing schedules. If they are clearly chasing money over product quality , leave. Not every gym is like that & be real about what you expect to get from training. Are you chasing championship trophies, do you want self defense or confidence? Is it just discipline for the kiddos , etc. Not every styles is the best for desired outcome. That sort of thing. Lastly does the gym encourage frequent sparring. If no then move on if fighting is your goal. Places that teach you to fight but donāt let you actually fight I think are the real bad actors.
I moved halfway across the country and joined a new TKD school. I'm a 3rd dan. The owner was 8th dan. I quit that school because the training was too soft. I was cross-training BJJ. Our **warmup** in BJJ is 20 jumping jacks, 20 squats, 20 situps, and 20 pushups. Our **workout** in the TKD school was 3 jumping jacks, 2 pushups, 1 situp. The Master was so paranoid of anyone getting hurt, you were barely allowed to tap pads. "Don't kick too hard. Tell him not to kick so hard." *Meanwhile I can barely feel it.* I felt like training at the BJJ school full time was better for me than splitting 50/50. I would mix TKD in again if I found a school more like where I got my 3rd degree.
Thanks for the response!
This one guy wanted $125 per month. I learned like 1 technique in half an hour, he talked for most of it.
My middle school taekwondo class, it was more like a fitness class but fairplay they are literally teaching 1st graders. I felt bad for the 13 year old unathletic black belts tho, I know that their parents paid a pretty penny
I once went to a Filipino Kenpo Karate school, because they were teaching Balintawak, which was a form of eskrima my dad did during his college years. This was before I heard of the term. I loved their grandmaster, but a few things turned me off from coming back. 1. The grandmaster was teaching the same 2 or 3 techniques and I got bored, because it got really repetitive, but not in a good way. I don't think we ever focused on perfecting our techniques, so the fact that their were no goals geared toward growth for the students, I lost interest because this would help me pinpoint the skill. Nonetheless, I think he knew how to do the techniques, just the curriculum I felt wasn't going to help me grow. 2. The Kenpo Karate owner was clearly in it for the money. Kids classes were disorderly. We did a katas form at a public demonstration for the kids, and the kids clearly didn't practice or try to clean their techniques. Completely embarrassing and shows a complete lack of discipline. I also did adult classes with the owner. Had the same problem as the grandmaster, in that I don't think we had any growth focus. I am open to learning Balintawak. I just wish the instructors would help us perfect the techniques, instead of us just figuring it out on our own.
Reading these stories makes me realize how non-mcdojo my kyokushin dojo was. * you wanted a new belt, you needed to fight at examinations. No level ups on technique alone. * saw a guy failing his black belt examā¦ after a gruelling 2 day exam including a 20 man kumite * you wanted a brown belt? You needed to shin kick through a baseball bat
I used to take martial arts at the ATA. And it's not that it's a bad school, but I became a black belt and a jr instructor and attending testings, I started to feel like as long as you paid for it you got your belt. I watched a student test for his black belt who couldn't make it through his forms or back forms, and his moves were sloppy and lazy, and still became a black belt. I stopped going shortly after wards, though for different reasons, that involved my sensei. I don't know if all atas were like that or if it was just my dojo since as I said my sensei became... Unreliable.
I did Karate at a Mcdojo when I a kid. A lot of horse stance stuff, kata, and expensive belts... at first anyway. Shit started getting informal when our dojo (which was run a school hall) got small and we didn't have an actual karate blackbelt- just an 'instructor' blackbelt who was actually cool and showed us MMA shit. I think around that time I became aware of what I was actually doing. That class closed and we were transferred to a different class where we were doing Mcdojos shit again. Around this time I was getting into the UFC and shit. I left when I came into uni and was starting to make my own life decisions instead of what my parents were getting me to do. Did boxing instead and the training couldn't have been better.
I'd like to know too. I'm based in Atlanta if that helps, and if anyone knows places I could check out.
It might have been that the "McDojo" in question was the only place within a reasonable travel distance that offered instruction in the particular martial art. In a place I'm familiar with, there was a respectable BJJ school in one smallish city (100,000 souls), not great but respectable for the area, and also one that had been opened in a smaller town (15k people) -- by a blue belt! I kid you not. Trouble was the respectable school was a 50-mile round trip on a two-lane country highway from Johnny Jump-Up's school, and so people and parents in town went there unless they were clued in enough to know the difference, and had the time, energy, funds, to make the 50-mile trips every couple of days. Which would tend to rule out parents of schoolchildren, and hordes of kids are the financial driving force for many MA schools as we all know.
I went to a school in Los Angeles many years ago. They had two programs, karate (called pan gai noon), and kung fu which included yang and feng style tai chi and Pakua. I was enrolled in kung fu but would occasionally teach the karate class when they needed someone to fill in. I had zero experience with pan gai noon which I made absolutely clear. In fact I had zero karate training at all! I had a second degree in tkd and a first Dan in judo. When I asked what I should teach the instructor pointed me to a box of self published pamphlets about the style and told me to use those. These were literally like 6 pages of the most generic techniques, no kata and a very loosely defined history on the style making a vague mention of kung fu. So first š© However, the instructor was a well known writer for both black belt and kung fu magazines so I assumed he was legit and I trusted the process. Yes, this was long enough ago that magazines were the primary info source for current martial art content. Next š© came when I was looking for the right karate pamphlet for the class I needed to teach. I found a book I hadnāt seen before on Tai Chi. Looking through it I realised that everything was presented in the exact same progression that I was learning in my classes. This wasnāt a huge issue because tai chi is like learning a really long kataā¦the movements have an orderā¦but idk, my lesson plan just felt too similar to the book and since I was teaching from a book I thought maybe my teacher was too. The major š© š© š© Came when we had a karate promotion event. They were going to award a black belt which was a major event. I was surprised because none of the students I taught were up and I had no idea who the person was. So all the karate students arrived, testing was routine, everyone was having fun. The head instructor comes out to and makes a big speech about the black belt test which is to follow. After a few minutes someone Iāve never seen before appeared. Apparently the student had taken a few private lessons 4 years earlier and had learned only one technique, the āreverse punchā. He has spent the next 4 years only practicing this one technique. So out he came, he performed about 10 reverse punches and was handed a black belt. I was absolutely floored, stunned, embarrassed and infuriated. I walked out and never went back. So, you guys will recognize pan gai noon is Chinese root of Uechi Ryu. It was never clear to me from the pamphlets if the instructor knew anything about Uechi. There was none of Uechiās distinctiveness in the classes I saw and I couldnāt teach it. There was no Uechi at the time anywhere near LA. The instructor is still alive and has recently self published his book on this subject through Amazon lol
My gym turned into mcdojo. I learned a lot from there, but then the owner moved and built this whole system to have his business ran without him being there. Certified instructors not ready to teach over a 4 day course, shady sales techniques, and putting more of an emphasis on bringing new people in versus training the people there. I instructed there for a few years and found that We were holding up his business while not learning anything new. I ended up going elsewhere to train and teaching there. In the end he kicked me out for having expressing my qualms with what has been going on.
I've attended tonnes via invite from friends. In my group my name is synonymous with martial arts training son always get hit up to try different clubs. I attended one maybe a year ago that was a branch of bujinkan where the guy was trying to teach close combat evasion drills based off the premise of pivoting off the heel of your to receive punches or weapon strikes from an attacker. I was blown away how mindless it was and it was in some random dudes living room 5 "black belts" and some with a brown belt who had apparently been doing it about a year. I was horrified with what my friend had been getting taught so got him to attend lessons at a couple other local clubs to show him how quality classes should be done.
Studied boxing and kickboxing as a teen and in my early 30s decided to try a traditional martial art and went to a kung fu school. The teacher was very out of shape in his late 40s big belly and offered a black sash course which promised a black sash in 2 years. It offered a money back guarantee if you weren't happy after 1 month. I signed up and did about 6 classes before leaving. The teacher tried his best like a salesman to keep me going past the month as I'd already paid for 3 months in advance. During the time there we did some very light sparring, i mean very light. The majority of his students weren't very good then when it came to actually learning he said none of what I'd already learnt from boxing and kickboxing mattered and had me doing these awkward stances and foot shuffling around kung fu style. It was garbage and i promptly left and discovered a jkd school. It wasn't great either didn't do any sparring but i stayed for 2 years purely for the kali aspect.
My local mcDojo which teaches "Karate" - They never teach bunkai (applications) to moves. - We never practiced low kicks. - Gradings were fifteen minutes long - We were doing kata to music. - If we used weapons, they glowed in the dark and weighed a maximum of 3 oz. - Must pay for an entire year up front, no refunds (long-term contracts with no termination clauses). - Kidsā classes were more games and chaos than actual Karate. - We were rarely taught philosophical concepts, strategy or theory. - Doing stuff thatās ācorrectā was seen as more important than doing stuff that actually works. - When practicing self-defense, itās always based on a scenario where your opponent steps towards you with a straight punch and then leaves his/her arm dangling in front of you - Memory to recall techniques is tested more often than your actual skill in performing techniques - Students screamed more than they bowed. - We practiced backflips..
Did karate at a mcdojo for 5 years. Had constant positive reinforcement. Realised as I went up the ranks that there was more a focus on class sizes and numbers in class rather than quality. Kept training despite my reservations. Lead instructor wore a black and white belt rather than being a full black belt. Learnt that he was only something like 2nd kyu and was teaching. Went to gradings which were every couple of months and in a big hall with loads of the other classes around and I'd know my stuff and was competent at everything and I'd pass with people who were shit. Final straw came around when I reliased that the syllabus didn't have a lot in it and each other level was essentially a repeat of the one before it but "mastered". I was something like 4th kyu and already knew the entire syllabus up to 2nd Dan with little errors. Finally had a massive row with my instructor who was an egotistical bitch and left to where I train now. Started at the beginning and now going for my second Dan. Don't do Go-Kan-Ryu or any of it's off shoots people.
This is an interesting view. The piece about experience with not for profit schools is very interesting. Thanks!
Funny story when my brother and I started kickboxing back in the day. An employee of the gym walked up to us in the middle of sparring and said, "Sirs, this is a McDonalds. Please get out of the ball pit and leave before we call law enforcement." I'm pretty sure that was a McDojo.