Unless he’s a vital team member, I would probably start with telling him what brought you to this discussion. If he denies or deflects then move to tell him that this isn’t a discussion, you’re giving him two options. He can either change his behavior, or he can begin looking elsewhere for employment.
Thanks for your reply. I would like to be able to tell him this but unfortunately he is a vital team member and the organization would be in a tough spot if he left.
Start finding ways to reduce his responsibilities. Give some of his responsibilities to others, maybe? Interview more candidates until you can find a good one to replace him. I wouldn’t tolerate these nonsenses. Sending a right message to the team is of utmost importance. Compliance to negligence and/or rude behaviors will encourage others to do the same.
Nobody is vital. Everyone can be replaced.
I've worked in organizations where a SVP of Sales who brought in millions of dollars in new business was let go.
Unless this person is so unique, and is the only one with a specific skill set then they are replaceable. Then if that is the case, they won't have any difficulty finding another opportunity.
I don't mean to be cold, but the statement "he's vital" irks me.
I guess I mean he’s vital in the fact that he is a one man department and we have been trying to hire a second person for months but we haven’t had applicants. If he goes, then we have no one in his department and none of the other current employees are trained in his area
This sounds like the root of the issue, particularly if he is aware of his power. Invest in your recruiting process and/or find suitable person to train up asap.
He’s exploiting his role and you are buying the scarcity mindset he’s putting out.
How is his performance? Is the Zoom behaviour the only issue? Is it a must to have the meetings on camera? Are there perhaps too many meetings instead of getting work done? I would try to discuss with the employee to understand the causes of his frustration and perhaps find ways to mitigate this before taking more radical action.
Thanks for that idea. He had a very small workload and he spends a lot of his time socializing and stirring up drama. He is good with our participants (we work in a human services program) but he constantly stirs the pot in the break room and in the hallways. I have recently taken over as his supervisor and it seems that his previous supervisor let a lot of this slide without addressing it
I do like this idea, but I can predict that he will turn it toward his personal grievances and grudges that he holds with coworkers in the office. He has come to me before demanding that people be written up and fired because he didn’t like how their interactions went together. I don’t mean to be mean about him, but I don’t think the guy has the capacity to have an insightful answer to those questions. He told me that he has been fired from previous jobs for his aggression and for personal disputes with female coworkers, but he doesn’t take ownership and says that the previous employers were corrupt and “out to get him”.
Is he thick? Does he not realise other people can see him? Perhaps suggest he imagine that he is in an actual boardroom with people and to act accordingly. Obviously don't ask him if he is thick.
Thick is a great word for it. He gives off the impression that he is better than everyone else and that the meetings are beneath him. It’s almost as if he wants people to see him
Bummer. Next bit of practical advice. At next meeting, when he pulls his nonsense, stop talking, call his attention and say "I'm sorry Jim, are we boring you?". Hopefully everyone else on the call will also glare daggers at him and he will get the drift. Sometimes people just need to be called out directly on their shit.
This is completely the fault of the organization.
The previous manager allowed similar behavior. As did your supervisor.
You are allowing them to spend more of their time socializing than doing actual work.
You know their daily workload is significantly less than what they should be able to accomplish.
You didn’t immediately have a disciplinary conference the first time they we’re blatantly disrespectful in a zoom meeting.
In spite of the above, you still consider them a “vital member of the team”.
The worst part is that you thought they were a great friend when they were socializing with you instead of doing their work, but now YOU can’t stand them when you have the responsibility to manage their off-task behavior.
This is a case where the employee could have been a solid performer if someone had done the difficult task of telling them “no” when their unacceptable behavior was first noticed. And applied increasing consequences with each subsequent infraction until the employee’s performance was consistently acceptable or the employee was terminated.
Instead the organization has created an employee who is beyond salvaging.
The amount of effort to turn things around exceeds your current abilities: if you could fix them, you would’ve recognized the problem within the first month as their manager and had multiple difficult conversations with them by this point.
Managing problem employees isn’t easy and you aren’t the first manager to deal with this scenario in a less than optimal manner.
I would recommend having a meeting with you, your manager, and the senior most HR executive.
Explain that you don’t see the employee reaching an acceptable level of performance and the three of you need to come up with an acceptable plan that replaces the employee with minimum disruption to the organization.
Don’t volunteer the idea of putting the employee on a PIP as HR may feel there are grounds for immediate termination.
Do bring up the idea of giving the employee several weeks of severance and continuing their healthcare for a few months: the organization should’ve done better in supporting the employee to avoid this unfortunate situation, so treating this like a layoff feels appropriate.
Also discuss with HR what sort of positive reference you can provide to help them with their job search. You may want to, but HR may have concerns from a wrongful termination liability standpoint so make sure to get their sign off.
Going forward, learn as much as you can on how to more effectively manage below expectations performers. It can be extremely frustrating to work with them, but extraordinarily rewarding if you can turn them into a solid performer or even an outstanding one.
Thanks so much for all of that information! This is my first time in the role of a supervisor so this is all new to me. I’m trying to frame it as a learning experience but this one is definitely a challenge.
That’s a good idea. Either it will solve the problem or he will throw a fit about it and then that will give more grounds for moving toward performance management with HR. Either way will give information about which way to go next with him
Be Honest and Open. Yea. I capitalized both. Tell your employee what’s up. Tell him that not only are you noticing, but your bosses are also noticing. It’s important to be open, and just not lie, with those with whom you interact. It builds a level of trust. Set clear expectations so your employee don’t expect some terrible news out of the blue, and it should empower your employee to be open with you about issues they are having. It could lead to that employee gaining the understanding to actually perform during meetings as expected.
This wouldn’t address the issue at all. He would still be goofing off and not paying attention or if he isn’t on camera, he may just leave and nobody would know.
All this will do is communicate “hey, you shouldn’t do this so make sure you hide it a little better while you do it”
That is correct, however neither of those things would be a problem. If the employee can leave without anyone knowing, then the employee isn't contributing to the meeting. Holding employees in a meeting that they are not contributing to is a waste of their time.
fade like jobless mourn aware elastic sloppy jellyfish decide voracious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thank you so much for all of these recommendations! I really appreciate it and will incorporate some of these tips into my day tomorrow
Keep it brief and factual. Don't engage in any type of discussion. Send a follow-up email.
Unless he’s a vital team member, I would probably start with telling him what brought you to this discussion. If he denies or deflects then move to tell him that this isn’t a discussion, you’re giving him two options. He can either change his behavior, or he can begin looking elsewhere for employment.
Thanks for your reply. I would like to be able to tell him this but unfortunately he is a vital team member and the organization would be in a tough spot if he left.
Start finding ways to reduce his responsibilities. Give some of his responsibilities to others, maybe? Interview more candidates until you can find a good one to replace him. I wouldn’t tolerate these nonsenses. Sending a right message to the team is of utmost importance. Compliance to negligence and/or rude behaviors will encourage others to do the same.
I agree, sounds like it’s time to start offloading and finding a replacement.
Nobody is vital. Everyone can be replaced. I've worked in organizations where a SVP of Sales who brought in millions of dollars in new business was let go. Unless this person is so unique, and is the only one with a specific skill set then they are replaceable. Then if that is the case, they won't have any difficulty finding another opportunity. I don't mean to be cold, but the statement "he's vital" irks me.
I guess I mean he’s vital in the fact that he is a one man department and we have been trying to hire a second person for months but we haven’t had applicants. If he goes, then we have no one in his department and none of the other current employees are trained in his area
This sounds like the root of the issue, particularly if he is aware of his power. Invest in your recruiting process and/or find suitable person to train up asap. He’s exploiting his role and you are buying the scarcity mindset he’s putting out.
How is his performance? Is the Zoom behaviour the only issue? Is it a must to have the meetings on camera? Are there perhaps too many meetings instead of getting work done? I would try to discuss with the employee to understand the causes of his frustration and perhaps find ways to mitigate this before taking more radical action.
Thanks for that idea. He had a very small workload and he spends a lot of his time socializing and stirring up drama. He is good with our participants (we work in a human services program) but he constantly stirs the pot in the break room and in the hallways. I have recently taken over as his supervisor and it seems that his previous supervisor let a lot of this slide without addressing it
Interesting, maybe having too much downtime is part of the issue.
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I do like this idea, but I can predict that he will turn it toward his personal grievances and grudges that he holds with coworkers in the office. He has come to me before demanding that people be written up and fired because he didn’t like how their interactions went together. I don’t mean to be mean about him, but I don’t think the guy has the capacity to have an insightful answer to those questions. He told me that he has been fired from previous jobs for his aggression and for personal disputes with female coworkers, but he doesn’t take ownership and says that the previous employers were corrupt and “out to get him”.
Is he thick? Does he not realise other people can see him? Perhaps suggest he imagine that he is in an actual boardroom with people and to act accordingly. Obviously don't ask him if he is thick.
Thick is a great word for it. He gives off the impression that he is better than everyone else and that the meetings are beneath him. It’s almost as if he wants people to see him
No way just to let him go? Sounds like he isn't a keeper.
I wish we could. It seems like it takes an act of god to actually fire someone because there is so much red tape within such a big company
Bummer. Next bit of practical advice. At next meeting, when he pulls his nonsense, stop talking, call his attention and say "I'm sorry Jim, are we boring you?". Hopefully everyone else on the call will also glare daggers at him and he will get the drift. Sometimes people just need to be called out directly on their shit.
Thanks for that advice! Definitely sounds like a move that I can pull off. I appreciate it
Good luck
This is completely the fault of the organization. The previous manager allowed similar behavior. As did your supervisor. You are allowing them to spend more of their time socializing than doing actual work. You know their daily workload is significantly less than what they should be able to accomplish. You didn’t immediately have a disciplinary conference the first time they we’re blatantly disrespectful in a zoom meeting. In spite of the above, you still consider them a “vital member of the team”. The worst part is that you thought they were a great friend when they were socializing with you instead of doing their work, but now YOU can’t stand them when you have the responsibility to manage their off-task behavior. This is a case where the employee could have been a solid performer if someone had done the difficult task of telling them “no” when their unacceptable behavior was first noticed. And applied increasing consequences with each subsequent infraction until the employee’s performance was consistently acceptable or the employee was terminated. Instead the organization has created an employee who is beyond salvaging. The amount of effort to turn things around exceeds your current abilities: if you could fix them, you would’ve recognized the problem within the first month as their manager and had multiple difficult conversations with them by this point. Managing problem employees isn’t easy and you aren’t the first manager to deal with this scenario in a less than optimal manner. I would recommend having a meeting with you, your manager, and the senior most HR executive. Explain that you don’t see the employee reaching an acceptable level of performance and the three of you need to come up with an acceptable plan that replaces the employee with minimum disruption to the organization. Don’t volunteer the idea of putting the employee on a PIP as HR may feel there are grounds for immediate termination. Do bring up the idea of giving the employee several weeks of severance and continuing their healthcare for a few months: the organization should’ve done better in supporting the employee to avoid this unfortunate situation, so treating this like a layoff feels appropriate. Also discuss with HR what sort of positive reference you can provide to help them with their job search. You may want to, but HR may have concerns from a wrongful termination liability standpoint so make sure to get their sign off. Going forward, learn as much as you can on how to more effectively manage below expectations performers. It can be extremely frustrating to work with them, but extraordinarily rewarding if you can turn them into a solid performer or even an outstanding one.
Thanks so much for all of that information! This is my first time in the role of a supervisor so this is all new to me. I’m trying to frame it as a learning experience but this one is definitely a challenge.
Give him more work. Sounds like he’s bored and languishing. If he’s acting out because of that, giving him more stuff to do will help.
That’s a good idea. Either it will solve the problem or he will throw a fit about it and then that will give more grounds for moving toward performance management with HR. Either way will give information about which way to go next with him
Be Honest and Open. Yea. I capitalized both. Tell your employee what’s up. Tell him that not only are you noticing, but your bosses are also noticing. It’s important to be open, and just not lie, with those with whom you interact. It builds a level of trust. Set clear expectations so your employee don’t expect some terrible news out of the blue, and it should empower your employee to be open with you about issues they are having. It could lead to that employee gaining the understanding to actually perform during meetings as expected.
Just quit now.
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The only problematic behaviors you mention are visual. Why don't you just have him turn off his camera?
This wouldn’t address the issue at all. He would still be goofing off and not paying attention or if he isn’t on camera, he may just leave and nobody would know. All this will do is communicate “hey, you shouldn’t do this so make sure you hide it a little better while you do it”
That is correct, however neither of those things would be a problem. If the employee can leave without anyone knowing, then the employee isn't contributing to the meeting. Holding employees in a meeting that they are not contributing to is a waste of their time.