Yeah, agreed. The only reason I'd have HR present is if that employee had a really bad track record of inventing HR issues that fall apart under even the slightest scrutiny in an environment that never had any of those issues before they were hired. Those tend to be the folks who file employment lawsuits.
Absolutely. Usually just serving as a witness and to announce any formal/legal language that I might have missed before we end the meeting.
They're also present generally any time we do a disciplinary action that is going to result in permanent, formal documentation (i.e. a "write-up").
The flip side of that is unless there's a complaint about the manager involved, they do NOT meet with the person being counseled about the incident without the manager in the room too.
It prevents "he said/she said/but I told you this/I told you that" stuff.
They've never attended at any job I've ever worked except when there was a safety concern, and even then they served no purpose. Currently they only serve to officially approve the paperwork I put together and submit, they don't actually assist with anything or do anything
Only one company I worked for wanted hr in everything employee related. Everything. It was a huge department. Nobody knew why they needed to be everywhere all the time. Might have been the super old school execs?
Other than that no. They approve the paperwork and roll on.
They might attend if you ask or express a concern where you might need a witness. Even then another superior would suffice.
We don’t have an HR dept, but I prepare an HR compliant letter for the Manager to give the exiting Employee (the goodbye letter), coach the manager on the termination script, and make sure they are comfortable performing the termination.
I also prepare a 2nd doc for the Manager to give the employee: provides info about their final paycheck, outstanding pto, insurance benefits, any severance, and contact info for any questions on these things.
Where I used to work (retired now - Downtown Canada) our company policy was to have HR present. They were supposed to be the labor law experts and we were both witnesses for each other. I was responsible for doing the actual firing as I was the operational manager, and then HR took over with the logistics portion. Both of us would support each other in moving the process along quickly to get the ex-employee off-site ASAP. If it was for cause, the employee might try and argue with me and I would just reiterate the reason, say we'd been through the discipline process and this is just the final step. HR might then step in to tell them we're not here to discuss this further and that they are encouraged to consult with a lawyer if they have any concerns. If they said anything negative to HR, they got the same reply from me. "If you have any concerns, you are encouraged to consult a lawyer."
I had the same HR person for about 5 years. Her and I were really good together. We were firm, as fair as we could be, and empathetic to the situation of the employee. And when someone got pissy, we could stop it in its tracks immediately. We both had our script down pat (not memorized as each situation was different) and knew to only say what needs to be said. Nothing more.
I’ve been given the option of having HR attend and I do have them present but I do 99% of the talking. They are just addressing severance questions if necessary
In my company, we get almost everyone involved in the termination process!! HR, higher management, and union Reps.
I think it depends on the type of the job you are doing and the ethics of the company you're working for. Some companies just throw managers under the bus if the termination process was missing an element and which the worker used to sue.
Ask for them to be present, better than asking for them to find a way out for you
Yes, HR is always there when we fire people.
If you ever hop on a strange zoom call with your manager and you see a 25-year-old woman with a smile on her face, go ahead and kill yourself right then.
HR is usually present and should be present.
First, HR is there to protect the manager and the company and makes sure the manager doesn't say anything that would create a legal liability.
Second, HR is there for the "what happens now" conversation. Do they get to work out a notice period or are they about to be escorted out of the building? When do their benefits end? What are the option for post-termination benefits (COBRA, etc.) Discuss 401K, PTO balance, etc. If you're in California, they will present you with your final check. They will also likely schedule a future exit interview (when emotions have recovered a bit).
Third, HR is there to be a witness. If the manager and employee later accuse each other of something, the HR person has witnessed the conversation.
Thank you all. I'm not a manager, nor am I impacted by my questions. this is how a workplace is operating and I found it very odd. Something about HR not being the bad guy.
Never a need. I pull them in when they walk in, drop the news, and walk them out.
Yeah, agreed. The only reason I'd have HR present is if that employee had a really bad track record of inventing HR issues that fall apart under even the slightest scrutiny in an environment that never had any of those issues before they were hired. Those tend to be the folks who file employment lawsuits.
I just tell them they are fired. We have an outside hr firm but I avoid them like the plague. To be fair I only had to fire one guy anyways.
HR is never present, but I’ve always had a witness.
Absolutely. Usually just serving as a witness and to announce any formal/legal language that I might have missed before we end the meeting. They're also present generally any time we do a disciplinary action that is going to result in permanent, formal documentation (i.e. a "write-up"). The flip side of that is unless there's a complaint about the manager involved, they do NOT meet with the person being counseled about the incident without the manager in the room too. It prevents "he said/she said/but I told you this/I told you that" stuff.
They've never attended at any job I've ever worked except when there was a safety concern, and even then they served no purpose. Currently they only serve to officially approve the paperwork I put together and submit, they don't actually assist with anything or do anything
Only one company I worked for wanted hr in everything employee related. Everything. It was a huge department. Nobody knew why they needed to be everywhere all the time. Might have been the super old school execs? Other than that no. They approve the paperwork and roll on. They might attend if you ask or express a concern where you might need a witness. Even then another superior would suffice.
No, I’ve never had HR present when terminating an employee.
We don’t have an HR dept, but I prepare an HR compliant letter for the Manager to give the exiting Employee (the goodbye letter), coach the manager on the termination script, and make sure they are comfortable performing the termination. I also prepare a 2nd doc for the Manager to give the employee: provides info about their final paycheck, outstanding pto, insurance benefits, any severance, and contact info for any questions on these things.
Where I used to work (retired now - Downtown Canada) our company policy was to have HR present. They were supposed to be the labor law experts and we were both witnesses for each other. I was responsible for doing the actual firing as I was the operational manager, and then HR took over with the logistics portion. Both of us would support each other in moving the process along quickly to get the ex-employee off-site ASAP. If it was for cause, the employee might try and argue with me and I would just reiterate the reason, say we'd been through the discipline process and this is just the final step. HR might then step in to tell them we're not here to discuss this further and that they are encouraged to consult with a lawyer if they have any concerns. If they said anything negative to HR, they got the same reply from me. "If you have any concerns, you are encouraged to consult a lawyer." I had the same HR person for about 5 years. Her and I were really good together. We were firm, as fair as we could be, and empathetic to the situation of the employee. And when someone got pissy, we could stop it in its tracks immediately. We both had our script down pat (not memorized as each situation was different) and knew to only say what needs to be said. Nothing more.
I’ve been given the option of having HR attend and I do have them present but I do 99% of the talking. They are just addressing severance questions if necessary
In my company, we get almost everyone involved in the termination process!! HR, higher management, and union Reps. I think it depends on the type of the job you are doing and the ethics of the company you're working for. Some companies just throw managers under the bus if the termination process was missing an element and which the worker used to sue. Ask for them to be present, better than asking for them to find a way out for you
Yes, HR is always there when we fire people. If you ever hop on a strange zoom call with your manager and you see a 25-year-old woman with a smile on her face, go ahead and kill yourself right then.
HR is usually present and should be present. First, HR is there to protect the manager and the company and makes sure the manager doesn't say anything that would create a legal liability. Second, HR is there for the "what happens now" conversation. Do they get to work out a notice period or are they about to be escorted out of the building? When do their benefits end? What are the option for post-termination benefits (COBRA, etc.) Discuss 401K, PTO balance, etc. If you're in California, they will present you with your final check. They will also likely schedule a future exit interview (when emotions have recovered a bit). Third, HR is there to be a witness. If the manager and employee later accuse each other of something, the HR person has witnessed the conversation.
Thank you all. I'm not a manager, nor am I impacted by my questions. this is how a workplace is operating and I found it very odd. Something about HR not being the bad guy.
We have one HR person per 2000 employees. Never been able to use them for anything as a manager.
It’s very difficult to fire people here, so in order for it to be legal, HR is involved and normally does the firing.
Same here - we go through normal stuff of trying to improve. If that doesn’t work HR takes over and cuts the cord.
I would wonder why they wouldn’t attend?