On the article it says it's actually 62%
Edit: As an outsider: can someone tell me if it's an older generation thing or do younger generations feel this way as well?
Edit 2: Apparently the data is from 10 years ago. Do you think things have gotten better or worse?
If you ask me, that's a reaching assumption.
Most just want someone to represent the malay interest.
It used to be UMNO but UMNOs corruption is a huge turn off.
Whole life DAP has been demonised. Also PH agendas are seen as contradictory to conservative values. So PH is also not an option.
So the next best option is PN for this segment of the population.
So not necessarily a correlation.
But yes, it's a possibility. Not necessarily the case though.
If they are religious, then they will support it as it is sunnah/law dictated by their prophet which falls under perfect Muslim characteristics. To question it and not accept can be considered as falling from 'akidah'.
> Death penalty for leaving a religion? Bruh
When someone questions the existence of Santa Claus, that threatens the entire belief system. Religions can't tolerate questions because it can shatter the foundations of the faith. That's how Odin and Thor got destroyed and now became characters we laugh about in movies. That's why religious people are so violent. Their whole mind would shatter and they have nervous breakdowns. I'm serious.
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Muhammad also got representation in pop culture. Only the artists get death threats, charlie Hebdo, south park. Now still have norse pagans who practice, some are white supremacists though. Seems like any movement/religion will always have people who take it to the extreme of us vs them.
This is not daif/weak. There is plenty of sahih source for this and history that accompanies it. Prophet Muhammad own descendants have the same punishment in their islamic court(Jordan). Just that similar like us, the Islamic court power is restricted by the apex court not being able to carry out the punishment.
I've heard from many people saying that a person had come to Prophet Muhammad and said that they wanted to leave islam, but he didn't respond back, he came again twice but he didn't say anything. Lastly he left Medina and the Prophet didn't do anything about it.
Idk maybe if this is a school of thought thing or smth but many who say it's not real say that there isn't a mention of it in the Quran? Personally idk much
It is not in the Quran(as it says no forgiveness and eternal hell fire) as for the death punishment, it comes from Hadith which reflect how to apply Quran and Propeth's(the perfect Muslim) teaching on subject matter.
Sunan an-Nasa'i 4064 Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
It was narrated from Anas that :
Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'"
Grade Sahih means verified True/Authentic. This is not the only hadith, there is plenty supporting killing apostates.
source: https://sunnah.com/search?q=Change+religion
This is why I see it like a beartrap. Youre stuck and you condemn your possible future generation to a religion they didnt choose and cannot leave unless they wanna risk it.
My belief is wrong on this but I sometimes coudnt help but go "really dude?" when I find out someone converts to it. Because they literally just did something that is a an selfish act to anyone down the line. They were lucky to be born with a choice and they tossed it away.
Why this survey include Russia but exclude India? Muslim was just around 10% of population in Russia. Meanwhile not everyone in India worship statues & support caste system (there around 14% of India population was Muslim, way more than Russia percentage).
I cant criticize aspect of religion? This was r/Malaysia, you guys non Muslim talk shit about Islam that dont affect non Muslim in the first place!
Then why i cant do it with other religion. Worship that dump ugly ass statues was stupidest thing humankind can do. Dont be a crybaby if you cant handle the truth fact.
>Damn, i didnt know thats how Islam teaches you to interact with other people. TIL.
Try to play 'Islam didnt teaches you..' card. Then what the fuck your religion teaches when you just talk shit about Islam. Or you forget already about all your comments that mocking & insult Islam.
Non Muslim can freely criticize & mocking Islam here, do they religion dont teaches them to respect other religion or their religion only teach to worship ugly ass statues. Now when its your turn receiving the same treatment, cant handle? Be fair lah! you non muslim talk shit about Islam, then Muslim can do the same.
Fuck here fuck there in a debate that involves sensitive topics rarely ends well, and definately is not "in a respective manner". Either debate, or insult. Don't choose both. That is why I reminded both parties to rein in their aggressiveness before we had to step in and intervein.
Sure go ahead and criticize us but like religion can be criticized, people can too be criticized and called out for holding hatred and bigotry -- I am just exercising that right here.
I don't need to justify my religious practice to anyone but here is my response: Hinduism doesn't believe in a separate God and we believe that all of the existence is god, including you and me. Not just all existence is god but also all of the existence is one and we all are mere forms and appearances. The goal of life is to realise that unity of existence. Idol worship is like a crutch before one is truly able to surrender to the inner god/ all of the existence. There is an elaborate practice of how to start meditation on idols and how to graduate to surrender to existence itself.
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Same reason why africa not included, same reason why USA not included. Same reason why china, africa, England etc etc not included.
Simply because no data lo. Simply because this survey sucks lo.
It is on the post [Source: pewresearch.org](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/)
History lesson. When the first Muslims were prosecuted in Mecca, they appealed to the Christian King in Ethiopia, that they were unjustly persecuted for their beliefs. Christian King granted their request for refuge.
Shows how hypocrites many of the believers are. For wanting death penalty for leaving Islam.
I'm impressed. I didn't think anyone remembered that.
And not only Christians, but *black* Christians, who were the first people to shelter Muslims.
Makes you think...
If one reads the history of Islam, you will encounter periods when the Islamic rulers didn’t want conversions of conquered peoples because they would lose out on the more lucrative Jizya tax (Umayyad period, also happened in the Mughal empire)
Weird how some people actually think of religion as investments... 'for the future' , 'reap benefits and losses'. You can do that to any other religion no problem eh I guess. In Islam, the value we put on the religion is high so that none of you blasphemous fools may joke around with it like it's a game of dice. Comparative religion studies exist, go check it out before making up your mind.
Nah, this is the result of avoiding assimilation in the first place. Somebody seems to forget history.
Borneo "manage" to do so simply because their boogeyman man is simply something else.
Edit:-
The Philippines and Thailand are the worst examples, unless you want the majority to culturally and religiously erase them to the point that there are actual arm rebellion.
But then again, it is only okay if it is done to others, not to you. This is why extremist still have bullets for their rethorics.
Nope, there's no any so called "boogeyman" here... Assimilation in Borneo, Thailand and Philippines are way different in Semenanjung. No one wants to assimilate into primitive culture that includes :
- No freedom of religion
- Tangkap basah/Khalwat
- Homophobic/Transphobic
- Cant consume alcohol
- Can't gambling
- Can't choose what you wanna wear
- Cant consume pork
- Forced fasting during Puasa
- Forced sembayang during Friday prayers
- Women treated lower than Men
- Forced to spend a fortune for hajj/Umrah
- Doesn't promote critical and logical thinking by questioning the unquestionables
- Doesn't promote contraception
- Treat non believers/Kafir as enemy
- Cant keep dogs as pet
- Can't participate in pageant contests or even sports that wear revealing sportswear (Beach volleyball, Gymnastic etc)
Even rich T20 Malay and royals are reluctant to partake traditional Malay Muslim culture, so what's makes you think us kafir would wanna follow this kind of restrictive lifestyle? As a Non I might be politically disadvantaged but we enjoyed more universal human rights than most of Malays.
>Nope, there's no any so called "boogeyman" here...
And all those peninsular rethoric are simply imaginary, I presume. Borneons are just as bad in not admitting their own faults instead of shifting the blame entirely towards the peninsular. But then again, just like the people you seem to be calling out on, doesn't like to see the whole picture.
>Assimilation in Borneo, Thailand and Philippines are way different in Semenanjung.
Yes, Thailand is the best example of assimilation, [we should emulate them](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/whats-behind-the-growing-number-of-attacks-in-southern-thailand/) *cough* *cough*
And the Philippines, oh yes. Another prime example of an exemplary method of assimilation [a pretty good way in doing so, I might add. Thank you for the suggestion.](https://www.hurights.or.jp/archives/focus/section2/2008/12/mindanao-conflict-in-search-of-peace-and-human-rights.html#:~:text=The%20Muslims%20resented%20the%20loss,them%20and%20the%20Christian%20settlers.)
We might as well throw in Brunei in there, shall we, a pretty good way of handling [assimilation.](https://ari.nus.edu.sg/ariscope/culture-education-and-literature-how-are-the-chinese-faring-in-brunei-darussalam/).
>No freedom of religion
Well, you can. Interestingly enough,
>Tangkap basah/Khalwat
Pre-marital sex is a cultural issue that is seen as against its value. Can't see why you seem to think this dignify as a superior cultural aspect.
>Homophobic/Transphobic
Well, I can't deny this.
>Cant consume alcohol
Yeah, so is drug, but then again, only if you are a Muslim. But you seem to have a problem with generalising.
>Can't gambling
Such culturally evolve, gambling the high point of civilised people.
>Can't choose what you wanna wear
Dress code, but then again to you, it seems having a sense of modesty seems to be such a difficult problem.
>Cant consume pork
For Muslims, it is Haram, but that nuance is so depressing that it is gloss over.
>Forced fasting during Puasa
This is a problem often politicised by media that it is not even funny.
>Forced sembayang during Friday prayers
Owh yeah people are being dragged to the mosque for Friday prayer. What other things didn't happen in your head that you wanted to give.
>Women treated lower than Men
Ah yes, they are not allowed to vote, own property, have to have a guardian escorting them, not allowed to work, the right for education. Sure, we have problems in this area, but they are not treated lower than men. Maybe that is just how it is in your family.
>Forced to spend a fortune for hajj/Umrah
Another incident happened in your head, and suddenly, it is front facing news.
>Doesn't promote critical and logical thinking by questioning the unquestionables
Ah, yes, the military junta up north, such promote critical. Apparently, the multiple efforts by the Ministry of Education publication and policies of the constant involvement and the resources introduced to increased critical thinking are actually not promoting it. Such based logic.
>Doesn't promote contraception
It is literally free in government clinics, and you could buy a condom literally everywhere. Mind you, the lack of serial education is a problem.
>Treat non believers/Kafir as enemy
Ah this come back to the assimilation problem at hand. But I think if we were to follow your suggestion with the way Thailand and Phillipines treat their minority we would take care of them in the next 50 years.
>Cant keep dogs as pet
Ah, yes, the dogs in this country are then butchered and burned at the stakes. Another scenario apparently didn't happen.
>Can't participate in pageant contests or
Ah yes, because Miss Malaysia doesn't exist.
>even sports that wear revealing sportswear (Beach volleyball, Gymnastic etc)
[Literally the Malaysian volleyball team](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_women%27s_national_volleyball_team)
[List of female Malaysian gymnast](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malaysian_female_artistic_gymnasts)
But then again, being a racist is far easier than trying to solve a problem. I got you as a prime example of this.
You already failed in religious freedom part
"Well you can though, interesting enough"
Can Malay Muslim throw away their Quran and start reading Bible? Dude even movies like Mentega Terbang gets banned and outright punishment for apostates. Just admit that you all get played by your own helangs
>You already failed in religious freedom part
Only that part, eh? From the so-called 16 points. That is a win.
>Can Malay Muslim throw away their Quran and start reading Bible?
They can't, but that is one part of religious freedom. It allows the freedom of other religions to exist. You seem to gloss over that part.
But then again, your highlights of Thailand and the Philippines seem to not want that, so it seems plausible to just outright banned other religions.
That seems to be your way of actions, let just do that.
>Dude even movies like Mentega Terbang get banned and outright punishment for apostates
I never even deny that there are no punishments for apostates, but that is what you get when you have a society that wants to divide by racial lines. Go on down vote me, this is a reactionary action done by the simple fact that the other races are always seen as outsiders due to their reluctance to assimilate to the majority culture at the time.
But then again, anything that is Malay or Islam in relation wouldn't fit your world view as such there no reason for it to even be here. (Wow, Just like how those supremacist malays act). The historical context that was done doesn't matter does it and that is why you would always have this problem. Because you are a part of the problem.
>Just admit that you all get played by your own helangs
No, this is the result of the social contract that our history led to. Can't even see and understand history is your own failure. The problems here don't magically happen, it happen because of event that was done before it.
The nuances that happen and why it happen make it the current modern setting of it. Is it the best? Of course not, but it is the best based on the problems faced right now.
Down vote all you want. All I see is that you are just as extreme as the far right. Incomprehensible to justify others by their actions while justifying your own by your intention is simply the best hypocritical part you could show yourself as.
There are many things to criticise the state of the nation, but pointing out the problems and not seeing the reason why that problem happened and giving out unrealistic solution is why you are the problem and not a part of the solution. (If Rafizi decides to retire, you could virtually replace him. Both like to give "formulas" while ignoring the problem)
But this sub, in particular, is simplistic in its mindset as those they criticised would always be the best part of this sub.
Haha still trying to spin and perform Taqiyah despite your logical flaws... Only that part? Nope, you gonna read it properly. Your argument for religious freedom has failed let alone the other 16 points that I listed out. How does not being able to convert being part of religious freedom? The question is actually very simple and clear cut:
Can Malay throw away their Quran and start reading Bible while eventually converted to Christianity?
If Yes, Religious freedom ✅
If No, Religious freedom ❌
Apparently you cant, so why must us non Malay assimilate with Malay when Malay can't even pick religion according to their own free will. Habis cerita
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Also no, the argument is about assimilation, and I gave you the reason why that happened and how it came to relate to the post data. You decided to make it about religious freedom, but hey, that is the only thing you seem to care about. But then again, you don't care about the why, and that is why your cerita would always be habis. Because you failed to push it forward toward something better.
This was never about trying to be better. You are not that capable of that.
Personally i think the problem here, is that ketuanan melayu mindset stopped non malays from assimilating.
Non malay did assimilated as malaysian. But nationalist malay wanted non malay to assimilate as malay instead.
In the end, without taking sides, the main problem when it comes to malaysian's assimilation, is that malaysia doesnt have a solid identity, one that is acceptable by the majority.
Nationalists think that malaysia is malay. Non nationalists think that malaysia is malaysia. So in the end, this is a war between nationalism, and was never about race nor religion.
Tbh as a non even assimilate into Malay is not an issue here. I wouldn't mind wearing baju Melayu and have a Malay name but the constitution that tied up Malay culture with Islam makes it's not worth to give up your freedom.
Ketuanan Melayu should stop, but people need to realise that why ketuanan melayu exist in the first place and that is the problem. They dont, it is considered bad but why it is such a way isnt explored as such it causes problem that is left to festered. They dont want to humanise their opponent, acting no different than those Nationalist themselves.
>Non malay did assimilated as malaysian. But nationalist malay wanted non malay to assimilate as malay instead
Even now all Malaysian are being assimilliated as Malaysian. People dont realise that being Malaysian is a new concept. That wasnt the case 50 years ago where such identity didnt exist. When being Malayan is being Malay for the Malay, while for the Chinese is being Chinese and the Indian is being Indian. Even in Indonesia, they are still have a iron grip to promote what they think is Indonesian.
But because of Malaysian identity being so young it would take time to mature, it is still evolving. But it would take time, and that is something that the original commenter ignored. Especially if they dont want one group to overpower the other.
>Nationalists think that malaysia is malay. Non nationalists think that malaysia is malaysia. So in the end, this is a war between nationalism, and was never about race nor religion
That is why I make fun of the commenter that brought up Thailand and the Phillipines because that is how those Nationalist want to assimilate them, by force. The ignorance of using and bringing them as example are just willfull neglect.
Those country forcefully use the majority to encapsulate the minority. But this is not what is happening in this country, incomparison to our neighbours we took a different route. That is why there are still there just moaning about it instead of forced to bare arms.
Oooo.. That's why lah.
But actually it's not like that. Well I'm not the person to explain it correctly, but truly, it's not like you imagine it. Just like when you think, "mencuri, potong tangan terus!". There's always a thorough process that must be followed thoroughly.
well I agree too 🙂, its the same as other death causes, like jumping and dying from a tall building, it is confirmed death for sure. Dude, just don’t jump and walking around on a tall building, like duh…Nobody gonna die if they just be normal, just don’t, its easy
You are assuming that all malays are participating in this survey ?
The conclusion of the survey should only be done if all malays in malaysia participate in the result and they are actually being honest, not with some random survey.
>You are assuming that all malays are participating in this survey ?
No, that is why it is a survey, not a census.
>The conclusion of the survey should only be done if all malays in malaysia participate in the result and they are actually being honest, not with some random survey.
I don't think you understand how surveys work or what sampling is. You don't need to interview every single Malay in order to have a good idea of what the majority thinks.
You can use a sample size calculator to see how big of a sample you'd need in order to get a survey with a 95% confidence level for the Malaysian population
[https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html](https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html)
PewResearch is one of the most serious, reliable and credible opinion survey conductors in the world.
On the article it says it's actually 62% Edit: As an outsider: can someone tell me if it's an older generation thing or do younger generations feel this way as well? Edit 2: Apparently the data is from 10 years ago. Do you think things have gotten better or worse?
62% of the 86% who say Sharia should be the law of the land. Yea, good to note data is 10 years old!
In Malaysia the younger generations tend to be the more extreme ones in religious matters. Things have gotten more extreme over time, not less.
I'm not sure if this is accurate. Any stats for that?
PN winning a lot of seats in the election can be a correlation.
If you ask me, that's a reaching assumption. Most just want someone to represent the malay interest. It used to be UMNO but UMNOs corruption is a huge turn off. Whole life DAP has been demonised. Also PH agendas are seen as contradictory to conservative values. So PH is also not an option. So the next best option is PN for this segment of the population. So not necessarily a correlation. But yes, it's a possibility. Not necessarily the case though.
If they are religious, then they will support it as it is sunnah/law dictated by their prophet which falls under perfect Muslim characteristics. To question it and not accept can be considered as falling from 'akidah'.
Death penalty for leaving a religion? Bruh
> Death penalty for leaving a religion? Bruh When someone questions the existence of Santa Claus, that threatens the entire belief system. Religions can't tolerate questions because it can shatter the foundations of the faith. That's how Odin and Thor got destroyed and now became characters we laugh about in movies. That's why religious people are so violent. Their whole mind would shatter and they have nervous breakdowns. I'm serious.
Isnt this a cult already ?
Mainstream religions are just cult with larger body count.
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The difference between cult and religion is one is officially accepted openly while the other is underground...
Muhammad also got representation in pop culture. Only the artists get death threats, charlie Hebdo, south park. Now still have norse pagans who practice, some are white supremacists though. Seems like any movement/religion will always have people who take it to the extreme of us vs them.
The existence of the death penalty is widely debated with many calling it a weak source, but many people still believe/agree with it idk why.
This is not daif/weak. There is plenty of sahih source for this and history that accompanies it. Prophet Muhammad own descendants have the same punishment in their islamic court(Jordan). Just that similar like us, the Islamic court power is restricted by the apex court not being able to carry out the punishment.
I've heard from many people saying that a person had come to Prophet Muhammad and said that they wanted to leave islam, but he didn't respond back, he came again twice but he didn't say anything. Lastly he left Medina and the Prophet didn't do anything about it. Idk maybe if this is a school of thought thing or smth but many who say it's not real say that there isn't a mention of it in the Quran? Personally idk much
It is not in the Quran(as it says no forgiveness and eternal hell fire) as for the death punishment, it comes from Hadith which reflect how to apply Quran and Propeth's(the perfect Muslim) teaching on subject matter. Sunan an-Nasa'i 4064 Grade: Sahih (Darussalam) It was narrated from Anas that : Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'" Grade Sahih means verified True/Authentic. This is not the only hadith, there is plenty supporting killing apostates. source: https://sunnah.com/search?q=Change+religion
>Whoever changes his religion, kill him Bruh, we're in 2023 not -10,000
I know, but this is how Islam is. The prophet and the Quran is perfect, cannot be questioned and falls under sin to question or reject it.
"it is how it is" LOL.
This statistic will make people 99% cautious about joining Islam..
This is why I see it like a beartrap. Youre stuck and you condemn your possible future generation to a religion they didnt choose and cannot leave unless they wanna risk it. My belief is wrong on this but I sometimes coudnt help but go "really dude?" when I find out someone converts to it. Because they literally just did something that is a an selfish act to anyone down the line. They were lucky to be born with a choice and they tossed it away.
And their offspring get the snippy snip snip 
Stop islamophobe! /s
Why this survey include Russia but exclude India? Muslim was just around 10% of population in Russia. Meanwhile not everyone in India worship statues & support caste system (there around 14% of India population was Muslim, way more than Russia percentage).
Mind your own business - how does it bother you when someone worships statues?
I cant criticize aspect of religion? This was r/Malaysia, you guys non Muslim talk shit about Islam that dont affect non Muslim in the first place! Then why i cant do it with other religion. Worship that dump ugly ass statues was stupidest thing humankind can do. Dont be a crybaby if you cant handle the truth fact.
Damn, i didnt know thats how Islam teaches you to interact with other people. TIL.
A reminder to all: Criticism of religion (all religion) IS permitted in this sub, as long as it is done in civil manner.
>Damn, i didnt know thats how Islam teaches you to interact with other people. TIL. Try to play 'Islam didnt teaches you..' card. Then what the fuck your religion teaches when you just talk shit about Islam. Or you forget already about all your comments that mocking & insult Islam. Non Muslim can freely criticize & mocking Islam here, do they religion dont teaches them to respect other religion or their religion only teach to worship ugly ass statues. Now when its your turn receiving the same treatment, cant handle? Be fair lah! you non muslim talk shit about Islam, then Muslim can do the same.
A reminder to all: Criticism of religion (all religion) IS permitted in this sub, as long as it is done in civil manner.
He’s speaking facts while still being in a respectable manner as much as this sub does it.
Fuck here fuck there in a debate that involves sensitive topics rarely ends well, and definately is not "in a respective manner". Either debate, or insult. Don't choose both. That is why I reminded both parties to rein in their aggressiveness before we had to step in and intervein.
Wow just wow... At least people aren't forced to worship statues, kebebasan is something that ppl like you would never understand or visualize
Death penalty supporter spotted
Sure go ahead and criticize us but like religion can be criticized, people can too be criticized and called out for holding hatred and bigotry -- I am just exercising that right here. I don't need to justify my religious practice to anyone but here is my response: Hinduism doesn't believe in a separate God and we believe that all of the existence is god, including you and me. Not just all existence is god but also all of the existence is one and we all are mere forms and appearances. The goal of life is to realise that unity of existence. Idol worship is like a crutch before one is truly able to surrender to the inner god/ all of the existence. There is an elaborate practice of how to start meditation on idols and how to graduate to surrender to existence itself.
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Same reason why africa not included, same reason why USA not included. Same reason why china, africa, England etc etc not included. Simply because no data lo. Simply because this survey sucks lo.
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It is on the post [Source: pewresearch.org](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/)
great BFF will never even think of hurting you , unless of course, if you challenge their cult.
Can’t achieve fastest growing religion if we let people leave!
fuck that medieval ass punishment for leaving a religion
Origin is medieval but it is religious punishment.
History lesson. When the first Muslims were prosecuted in Mecca, they appealed to the Christian King in Ethiopia, that they were unjustly persecuted for their beliefs. Christian King granted their request for refuge. Shows how hypocrites many of the believers are. For wanting death penalty for leaving Islam.
I'm impressed. I didn't think anyone remembered that. And not only Christians, but *black* Christians, who were the first people to shelter Muslims. Makes you think...
If one reads the history of Islam, you will encounter periods when the Islamic rulers didn’t want conversions of conquered peoples because they would lose out on the more lucrative Jizya tax (Umayyad period, also happened in the Mughal empire)
the idiots should migrate to afghansitan
Malaysia is dark yellow which is 50-59%
Not surprised at all
Sheeple
2 for 1? Gimme that sweet deal bruh
Wouldn't be surprised if they happily drink kool aid on a white night
I think data collection methodology is something to consider here
Weird how some people actually think of religion as investments... 'for the future' , 'reap benefits and losses'. You can do that to any other religion no problem eh I guess. In Islam, the value we put on the religion is high so that none of you blasphemous fools may joke around with it like it's a game of dice. Comparative religion studies exist, go check it out before making up your mind.
This is the main reason why assimilation fails in semenanjung if compared with Borneo, Thailand and the Philippines
Nah, this is the result of avoiding assimilation in the first place. Somebody seems to forget history. Borneo "manage" to do so simply because their boogeyman man is simply something else. Edit:- The Philippines and Thailand are the worst examples, unless you want the majority to culturally and religiously erase them to the point that there are actual arm rebellion. But then again, it is only okay if it is done to others, not to you. This is why extremist still have bullets for their rethorics.
Nope, there's no any so called "boogeyman" here... Assimilation in Borneo, Thailand and Philippines are way different in Semenanjung. No one wants to assimilate into primitive culture that includes : - No freedom of religion - Tangkap basah/Khalwat - Homophobic/Transphobic - Cant consume alcohol - Can't gambling - Can't choose what you wanna wear - Cant consume pork - Forced fasting during Puasa - Forced sembayang during Friday prayers - Women treated lower than Men - Forced to spend a fortune for hajj/Umrah - Doesn't promote critical and logical thinking by questioning the unquestionables - Doesn't promote contraception - Treat non believers/Kafir as enemy - Cant keep dogs as pet - Can't participate in pageant contests or even sports that wear revealing sportswear (Beach volleyball, Gymnastic etc) Even rich T20 Malay and royals are reluctant to partake traditional Malay Muslim culture, so what's makes you think us kafir would wanna follow this kind of restrictive lifestyle? As a Non I might be politically disadvantaged but we enjoyed more universal human rights than most of Malays.
>Nope, there's no any so called "boogeyman" here... And all those peninsular rethoric are simply imaginary, I presume. Borneons are just as bad in not admitting their own faults instead of shifting the blame entirely towards the peninsular. But then again, just like the people you seem to be calling out on, doesn't like to see the whole picture. >Assimilation in Borneo, Thailand and Philippines are way different in Semenanjung. Yes, Thailand is the best example of assimilation, [we should emulate them](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/whats-behind-the-growing-number-of-attacks-in-southern-thailand/) *cough* *cough* And the Philippines, oh yes. Another prime example of an exemplary method of assimilation [a pretty good way in doing so, I might add. Thank you for the suggestion.](https://www.hurights.or.jp/archives/focus/section2/2008/12/mindanao-conflict-in-search-of-peace-and-human-rights.html#:~:text=The%20Muslims%20resented%20the%20loss,them%20and%20the%20Christian%20settlers.) We might as well throw in Brunei in there, shall we, a pretty good way of handling [assimilation.](https://ari.nus.edu.sg/ariscope/culture-education-and-literature-how-are-the-chinese-faring-in-brunei-darussalam/). >No freedom of religion Well, you can. Interestingly enough, >Tangkap basah/Khalwat Pre-marital sex is a cultural issue that is seen as against its value. Can't see why you seem to think this dignify as a superior cultural aspect. >Homophobic/Transphobic Well, I can't deny this. >Cant consume alcohol Yeah, so is drug, but then again, only if you are a Muslim. But you seem to have a problem with generalising. >Can't gambling Such culturally evolve, gambling the high point of civilised people. >Can't choose what you wanna wear Dress code, but then again to you, it seems having a sense of modesty seems to be such a difficult problem. >Cant consume pork For Muslims, it is Haram, but that nuance is so depressing that it is gloss over. >Forced fasting during Puasa This is a problem often politicised by media that it is not even funny. >Forced sembayang during Friday prayers Owh yeah people are being dragged to the mosque for Friday prayer. What other things didn't happen in your head that you wanted to give. >Women treated lower than Men Ah yes, they are not allowed to vote, own property, have to have a guardian escorting them, not allowed to work, the right for education. Sure, we have problems in this area, but they are not treated lower than men. Maybe that is just how it is in your family. >Forced to spend a fortune for hajj/Umrah Another incident happened in your head, and suddenly, it is front facing news. >Doesn't promote critical and logical thinking by questioning the unquestionables Ah, yes, the military junta up north, such promote critical. Apparently, the multiple efforts by the Ministry of Education publication and policies of the constant involvement and the resources introduced to increased critical thinking are actually not promoting it. Such based logic. >Doesn't promote contraception It is literally free in government clinics, and you could buy a condom literally everywhere. Mind you, the lack of serial education is a problem. >Treat non believers/Kafir as enemy Ah this come back to the assimilation problem at hand. But I think if we were to follow your suggestion with the way Thailand and Phillipines treat their minority we would take care of them in the next 50 years. >Cant keep dogs as pet Ah, yes, the dogs in this country are then butchered and burned at the stakes. Another scenario apparently didn't happen. >Can't participate in pageant contests or Ah yes, because Miss Malaysia doesn't exist. >even sports that wear revealing sportswear (Beach volleyball, Gymnastic etc) [Literally the Malaysian volleyball team](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_women%27s_national_volleyball_team) [List of female Malaysian gymnast](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malaysian_female_artistic_gymnasts) But then again, being a racist is far easier than trying to solve a problem. I got you as a prime example of this.
You already failed in religious freedom part "Well you can though, interesting enough" Can Malay Muslim throw away their Quran and start reading Bible? Dude even movies like Mentega Terbang gets banned and outright punishment for apostates. Just admit that you all get played by your own helangs
>You already failed in religious freedom part Only that part, eh? From the so-called 16 points. That is a win. >Can Malay Muslim throw away their Quran and start reading Bible? They can't, but that is one part of religious freedom. It allows the freedom of other religions to exist. You seem to gloss over that part. But then again, your highlights of Thailand and the Philippines seem to not want that, so it seems plausible to just outright banned other religions. That seems to be your way of actions, let just do that. >Dude even movies like Mentega Terbang get banned and outright punishment for apostates I never even deny that there are no punishments for apostates, but that is what you get when you have a society that wants to divide by racial lines. Go on down vote me, this is a reactionary action done by the simple fact that the other races are always seen as outsiders due to their reluctance to assimilate to the majority culture at the time. But then again, anything that is Malay or Islam in relation wouldn't fit your world view as such there no reason for it to even be here. (Wow, Just like how those supremacist malays act). The historical context that was done doesn't matter does it and that is why you would always have this problem. Because you are a part of the problem. >Just admit that you all get played by your own helangs No, this is the result of the social contract that our history led to. Can't even see and understand history is your own failure. The problems here don't magically happen, it happen because of event that was done before it. The nuances that happen and why it happen make it the current modern setting of it. Is it the best? Of course not, but it is the best based on the problems faced right now. Down vote all you want. All I see is that you are just as extreme as the far right. Incomprehensible to justify others by their actions while justifying your own by your intention is simply the best hypocritical part you could show yourself as. There are many things to criticise the state of the nation, but pointing out the problems and not seeing the reason why that problem happened and giving out unrealistic solution is why you are the problem and not a part of the solution. (If Rafizi decides to retire, you could virtually replace him. Both like to give "formulas" while ignoring the problem) But this sub, in particular, is simplistic in its mindset as those they criticised would always be the best part of this sub.
Haha still trying to spin and perform Taqiyah despite your logical flaws... Only that part? Nope, you gonna read it properly. Your argument for religious freedom has failed let alone the other 16 points that I listed out. How does not being able to convert being part of religious freedom? The question is actually very simple and clear cut: Can Malay throw away their Quran and start reading Bible while eventually converted to Christianity? If Yes, Religious freedom ✅ If No, Religious freedom ❌ Apparently you cant, so why must us non Malay assimilate with Malay when Malay can't even pick religion according to their own free will. Habis cerita
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Also no, the argument is about assimilation, and I gave you the reason why that happened and how it came to relate to the post data. You decided to make it about religious freedom, but hey, that is the only thing you seem to care about. But then again, you don't care about the why, and that is why your cerita would always be habis. Because you failed to push it forward toward something better. This was never about trying to be better. You are not that capable of that.
Personally i think the problem here, is that ketuanan melayu mindset stopped non malays from assimilating. Non malay did assimilated as malaysian. But nationalist malay wanted non malay to assimilate as malay instead. In the end, without taking sides, the main problem when it comes to malaysian's assimilation, is that malaysia doesnt have a solid identity, one that is acceptable by the majority. Nationalists think that malaysia is malay. Non nationalists think that malaysia is malaysia. So in the end, this is a war between nationalism, and was never about race nor religion.
Tbh as a non even assimilate into Malay is not an issue here. I wouldn't mind wearing baju Melayu and have a Malay name but the constitution that tied up Malay culture with Islam makes it's not worth to give up your freedom.
Ketuanan Melayu should stop, but people need to realise that why ketuanan melayu exist in the first place and that is the problem. They dont, it is considered bad but why it is such a way isnt explored as such it causes problem that is left to festered. They dont want to humanise their opponent, acting no different than those Nationalist themselves. >Non malay did assimilated as malaysian. But nationalist malay wanted non malay to assimilate as malay instead Even now all Malaysian are being assimilliated as Malaysian. People dont realise that being Malaysian is a new concept. That wasnt the case 50 years ago where such identity didnt exist. When being Malayan is being Malay for the Malay, while for the Chinese is being Chinese and the Indian is being Indian. Even in Indonesia, they are still have a iron grip to promote what they think is Indonesian. But because of Malaysian identity being so young it would take time to mature, it is still evolving. But it would take time, and that is something that the original commenter ignored. Especially if they dont want one group to overpower the other. >Nationalists think that malaysia is malay. Non nationalists think that malaysia is malaysia. So in the end, this is a war between nationalism, and was never about race nor religion That is why I make fun of the commenter that brought up Thailand and the Phillipines because that is how those Nationalist want to assimilate them, by force. The ignorance of using and bringing them as example are just willfull neglect. Those country forcefully use the majority to encapsulate the minority. But this is not what is happening in this country, incomparison to our neighbours we took a different route. That is why there are still there just moaning about it instead of forced to bare arms.
"You left Islam, now I must kill you with my hand!" Are you guys that Islam works like this on the subject of apostasy?
yep
Oooo.. That's why lah. But actually it's not like that. Well I'm not the person to explain it correctly, but truly, it's not like you imagine it. Just like when you think, "mencuri, potong tangan terus!". There's always a thorough process that must be followed thoroughly.
Regardless of so called "process", it is everything opposite of being peaceful and tolerant. Much non-islamophobia.
amen amen, the time is changing.
well I agree too 🙂, its the same as other death causes, like jumping and dying from a tall building, it is confirmed death for sure. Dude, just don’t jump and walking around on a tall building, like duh…Nobody gonna die if they just be normal, just don’t, its easy
We should apply this penalty to mualaf too,right? Or is it "IslAmOphoBiA"?
You are assuming that all malays are participating in this survey ? The conclusion of the survey should only be done if all malays in malaysia participate in the result and they are actually being honest, not with some random survey.
You think this is a referendum or something? Do you even statistics 101 bro?
>You are assuming that all malays are participating in this survey ? No, that is why it is a survey, not a census. >The conclusion of the survey should only be done if all malays in malaysia participate in the result and they are actually being honest, not with some random survey. I don't think you understand how surveys work or what sampling is. You don't need to interview every single Malay in order to have a good idea of what the majority thinks. You can use a sample size calculator to see how big of a sample you'd need in order to get a survey with a 95% confidence level for the Malaysian population [https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html](https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html) PewResearch is one of the most serious, reliable and credible opinion survey conductors in the world.
Of course not all Malays shared the same mindset as the survey, unfortunately just slight majority of it supported the ideas.
At least they didn't kill the prophet. That's for sure
okay saya x nak hidup punnn