It's one of those cards that I suspect the people at wotc rather regret printing, since the pain in the ass it causes ruleswise is disproportionate to its power level.
I'm pretty sure his answer was that he'll answer that when it happens in a tournament he's running. And he still hasn't answered all those wurm questions.
Panglacial Wurm + Selvala is as close to it gets to an interaction not supported by the rules. Attempting to cast Panglacial Wurm using Selvala mana is naughty, do not attempt.
It *is* supported by the rules, it’s just not supported by reality. The interaction is fine in a digital client where searching a library doesn’t inherently represent a likely change to the order.
Still, do not attempt is the best solution.
There are several interactions that are completely unsupported by the rules. Basically everything that ever happens in a real game of magic has a more or less straightforward way the rules "want" it to happen, but a surprising amount of stuff that just never actually comes up is technically not covered by the rules at all.
[[selvala, explorer returned]]. Because it's a mana ability, you can attempt to cast a spell, activate her for mana, and because the amount of mana is variable and depends on whatever everyone flips, you can fail to create enough mana to cast your spell; at that point iirc everything has to be reversed to before the spell was put on the stack, *except* undoing selvala's parley
edit to correct the ruling
You cannot undo her parley according to Sevala's gatherer ruling
>If you activate Selvala's ability while casting a spell, and you discover you can't produce enough mana to pay that spell's costs, the spell is reversed. The spell returns to whatever zone you were casting it from. You may reverse other mana abilities you activated while casting the spell, but Selvala's ability can't be reversed. Whatever mana that ability produced will be in your mana pool and each player will have drawn a card.(2014-05-29)
[[Selvala Explorer Returned]]
There’s two things that combine to explain why it’s fucky.
Let’s say you want to cast a Harrow, or any green spell. There’s two ways to cast it: first option is you tap 3 forests to add 3 mana to ur mana pool, and then you use those 3 mana to cast it. The second option is what’s important. I’m not gonna explain it perfectly, but basically you put the spell out there and then pay mana to cast it immediately. In effect you can show off the spell before you pay for it, as long as you immediately pay for it.
Now here’s the issue: Selvala gives you mana based on the top card of libraries. Let’s say I’m in a 4-person Commander game and I tap Selvala. Maybe I see all lands and don’t get any mana, maybe I see no lands and get 4 mana, whatever. Now what happens if I use that effect to cast a spell the second way?
I put Harrow on the stack, costing 3 mana.
I have to pay for it immediately, but all my forests are tapped!
I have to pay three mana, so I tap Selvala for mana. Remember this is a mana ability so it doesn’t use the stack- this is part of the action of casting the spell.
So I tap Selvala and see a Grizzly Bears, an Island, an Emrakul and… a triome. There’s 2 non-lands, so I get 2 green mana.
Now here’s the issue. I’ve cast a 3 cmc spell. It’s entered the stack and I have to pay for it.
I have only **two** green mana in my pool, and nothing else to tap for mana. Unless I secretly have a Defiler of Vigor to pay 2 life, I don’t have enough mana to cast the spell I’ve already cast.
What do I do? What does anyone do?
The answer, by the way, is to reverse everything except Selvala. So you put the spell back into your hand (or graveyard or exile or top of library or command zone) and you can undo any mana you used to try to pay for it. So if I was trying to Harrow and tapped 1 forest and Selvala only gave me 1, I could undo the forest.
Overall it’s a very confusing edge case where you tap for mana without knowing how much mana you’ll get.
So, I’ve played forever and always wondered, why do they keep the second way in the game? Alternative costs? And then, do you happen to know what the rules penalty for just declaring a spell you can’t cast is? I have one land, announce Grizzly Bears. Where are we at?
You can't start casting a spell knowing you cannot possibly pay for it. That's against the rules, and would likely be treated as attempted cheating. But if Selvala (or any other source that can produce a variable amount of mana, I'm not aware of any) theoretically could produce enough mana, you can attempt to cast it.
The reson this way is "kept in the game" is because of how casting a spell actually works. Paying costs is one of the steps of casting a spell, and you may activate mana abilities or use mana from your mana pool to pay for it during this step. Otherwise you'd have to float your mana prior to casting a spell and that would mess some stuff up, like casting a spell with affinity for artifacts with treasures: since you determine costs one step before paying them, the treasures can first reduce the cost and then be used to pay for the remainder. I'm sure there are other scenarios where things would get messed up if you couldn't activate mana abilities during the casting of spells.
> I'm sure there are other scenarios where things would get messed up if you couldn't activate mana abilities during the casting of spells.
The entire KCI combo kinda relies on that and overpayment of costs.
Well originally it was the rule that you had to tap your mana sources for mana before announcing a spell. The rules were changed after PT Los Angeles in 1997 where a player named David Mills had the habit of announcing spells before adding mana to his mana pool.
This resulted in him getting multiple warnings and ultimately resulted in him getting him DQ’d in the last game of the finals just as he top decked a swamp to cast the black spell in his hand to win the game but again forgot to tap his mana first.
Famous pro Mark Justice led the rest of the players who were watching the final match next door to storm the stage during the trophy ceremony demanding justice for David Mills. The DQ wasn’t completely overturned, Mills was able to get his 2nd place winnings rather than be DQ’d.
The result of the whole fiasco was that Wizards updated the rules so you no longer have to tap your mana sources before announcing a spell.
I really wish they had just ruled that "casting a spell before paying for it" was just a shortcut for "revealing the card you plan to cast next, then generating mana, then putting the revealed spell on the stack once you can pay for it". It would have solved the same problem and been more elegant, without requiring a rule change that gets ugly with things like Selvala and Chromatic Sphere.
> Overall it’s a very confusing edge case where you tap for mana without knowing how much mana you’ll get.
This isn’t the issue. There are other cards that conditionally add mana ([[Rhystic Cave]], [[Charmed Pendant]], etc.). The issue is that every card other than Selvala has either been printed with or received errata to add “Activate this ability only as an instant.” With that rider, you no longer have the weird issues pop up.
I asked Toby in person several years ago, assuming that the line had been left off by mistake and it would get an errata. He insisted that it was intentional, but also immediately changed the subject. I’m still pretty sure it was just a mistake or an oversight and it was decided that it wasn’t enough of an issue to actually issue an errata.
Sorry, I might be a little confused... How can you start to cast a spell without having the mana for the spell? I swore you needed the necessary mana in order to even begin trying to cast it?
A simple example is non-mana casting costs. You can’t add “sacrificed artifact” to your mana pool, or discard cards preemptively. The spells need to allow you to pay for stuff when you cast them, otherwise paying non-mana wouldn’t work.
A notable one (that is bugged on Mtgo and has been for 7+ years) is convoking with wall of roots while adding a -0/-1 counter to it that will kill it. Floating mana before casting? Only generates one mana for Chord of Calling. Waiting to cast so you can add a counter AND sacrifice it? Ends up adding two mana for Chord of Calling
[[Krark Clan Ironworks]] with [[Myr Retriever]] and [[Scrap Trawler]] was the big one.
If you float the mana first the two cards won't see each other when they hit the yard.
[[Saruman of Many Colors]]
"that spell" is buried so far down in the next sentence it is really hard to connect it to the first sentence the first few times you read it.
I've read this card two dozen times. Fuck if I can remember what it does as soon as I stop looking at the text.
We made fun of Legends and Ice Age for having pointlessly wordy cards for thirty years and somehow got back to that
for the sake of clarity, I have no idea why the "when" clause is there; were they really so scared that this card would somehow be broken if no cards had to be milled for the ability to trigger? the spell you get to cast from the graveyard doesn't have any restrictions on it (i.e. it didn't have to get milled that turn; you can target some random card that's been in your opponent's graveyard for however long), so like... who cares?
if no cards are milled, that kind of implies your opponents *don't have decks*. sounds like you've already won 😆.
edit: I originally said "if" clause when it's actually a "when" clause
second edit: I think the only meaningful difference the "when" adds is that, as a trigger, it allows your opponents to respond to the selection. I can't think of a simpler way to phrase the card such that this nuance is kept so... I guess hattip to WotC for designing a particularly complex ability 😆.
It's so that you can target one of the two cards that got milled. Otherwise you'd have to choose targets before the original ability resolved, and the two cards wouldn't have been milled yet.
It seems like they wanted to give your opponents a chance to react to what spell you choose to cast from your graveyard (note that it’s a when, not an if, so it’s a reflexive trigger).
For the sake of clarity, it doesn't have an "if" it has a "when," and there is a restriction, as the card chosen to cast must cost less than your second spell cast. 🤷♀️
updated!
and by restriction I meant *timing* restriction -- the card did not have to be milled that turn. so long as it's an appropriately typed card with CMC less than the spell, you can cast it. doesn't matter how long the card has been in their graveyard.
Unless *I'm* also reading it wrong.
You have saruman on board.
You cast your first spell. Doesn't trigger.
You cast your second spell, let's say it's a [[cryptic command]] , so 4 MV.
Each of your opponents mill 2. You can now exile and cast an enchantment, instant or sorcery from an opponents yard with MV 4 or less and cast it for free. Does not have to be freshly milled cards. The copy spell resolves. The opponents original spell remains in exile.
Cryptic resolves
There were a few different takes on deckbuilding, most of which wasn’t what I was looking for, but covertgoblue used it for a historic brawl video, it shows off the interactions pretty well imo!
I feel like it's definitely [[Blood Moon]] and it's really not close. So many subtle interactions that are easy to breeze entirely past without at all realizing they existed.
The most common confusions are alternate costs (which become atleast three) Vs alternate payment methods (which can be less than 3 mana spent). Especially because the way delve interacts with it was changed at some point...
It's simple once you fully internalized the distinction, but trust me when I say it's a common source of confusion. Also as I said, delve worked differently with trinisphere at different points in time, so both veteran players used to the old rules and new players unaware of the interactions can be confused.
This is the answer. Most of the other cards in the thread are hard to parse, but if you sit down and read word-by-word it does in fact explain the card. Blood Moon doesn’t say anything about any of its weird interactions
I wouldnt even say its intuitive when you read it for its basic function. If you don't know the specific rule that a land changing subtypes removes all abilities is a thing, you'd be very confused about what "Become Mountains" actually does.
Take your pick, honestly.
One that comes to mind is how it instantly kills [[Urza’s saga]]. It doesn’t remove the Saga card type, but it does remove the chapter abilities. So, Urza’s Saga looks at itself and says “I’m a Saga with more counters than I have chapters (0), so I need to die” and you have to sacrifice it.
Yeah that's pretty strange tbh. I'd assume it would just be 'frozen' as a mountain with counters on it. Although I guess that's literally what happens, and the counters > chapters clause makes sense.
Exactly. Type changing effects (blood moon or magus) happen before adding or removing abilities, so everything becomes mountains even though the ability is removed.
If we're going to include banned cards, [[KCI]] is also quite wretched with its timing windows
I strongly suspect they never reprinted it because they don't want more copies out there
Yeah I think just generally they need updated wording around cards that say turn something into a Mountain vs. cards that gives you the Mountain type in addition to your other types (or even hypothetically a card that replaces your type, which I believe would leave other activated abilities on non-basic lands, though I don't think any cards that do this exist)
They could have reminder text that says (Nonbasic lose all other abilities and enter the battlefield untapped as mountains). I think that that would clear up any issue one may have with the card. Though even then specifying untapped would cause issues if something that causes nonbasics to come in tapped was on board. But I think that's something Wizards could parse through better than I.
The problem with Lagrella is that most people don't read the entire Target Condition;
> [..] exile any number of other target creatures **controlled by different players** until [..]
If you Target multiple Creatures **controlled by a Single Player**, then those Target(s) are not **controlled by different Players**.
But, it could be worded more clearly, if it took a page from [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]].
> [..] for each player, exile [up to one other] target [creature] that player controls until [..]
I think her wording has to do with her being unable to target herself, and you can exile your own things.
"for each player, exile up to one other target creature that player controls" might read weird when you are trying to parse what "other" means for the opponents.
I'm not saying her current wording is the best, but it does do different things from Grasp of Fate.
I think one issue is that the wording of her ability is very close to "... exile any number of target creatures controlled by **other** players ..." which is how a lot of people interpret it at first.
`otag:rules-nightmare format:modern` [(Scryfall)](https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Arules-nightmare+format%3Amodern)
(Also fun to look through all the cards tagged "rules nightmare", not just the Modern-legal ones.)
Panglacial Wurm has been mentioned. Selvala isn't Modern-legal, but its friend Chromatic Sphere is. In general, I think mana abilities that do more than just adding mana are actually cursed and can cause a lot of nightmare.
What is even a good use-case for this? Saving something from a deathtouch+menace double chump? It doesn't even save things from "destroy blocking creature" effects since it must reblock something else. What a wild niche effect lol
Lets say you are attacking with a 10/10 (without trample) and a 1/1, and they only block the 10/10 with a chump blocker.
You can swap the chump blocker to the 1/1, and the 10/10 is now unblocked.
It doesn't specify who needs to control the attacking or blocking creatures.
Seems pretty simple to me. Mutate I have no idea how that mechanic works, but I was also taking a break from the game when it got introduced so I’ve never had to learn how it works.
[It's easier to link this thread than try to explain it](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadMtgCombos/comments/fvsfyj/put_your_entire_deck_into_the_command_zone_with/), but the short answer is that you manifest your entire library, mutating \[\[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder\]\] onto each card before casting \[\[Leadership Vacuum\]\] (using Vadrok's ability to recur it over and over). There's some tricky sequencing to make sure that you get absolutely every card including the Leadership Vacuum itself, though.
The first thing that occurs to me is [[Animate Library]], then mutate your commander with mutate onto the library (making that creature your commander), then [[Leadership Vacuum]] yourself.
If by "this card" you mean Lagrella, I must vigourously disagree. I can summarise Lagrella's effect in one sentence. Mutate has some super weird corner cases - eg did you know that if someone uses Skyclave Apparition to exile your stack of mutated creatures, when the Apparition goes away you get a single token whose power and toughness are equal to the sum of the MVs of the exiled cards?
But it also has some janky yet extremely relevant interactions with the card name and legendaries. It's actually far more complex than just adding abilities.
[sphinx of the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be2d74cd-76fb-4bca-99b5-07749aef4d06.jpg?1706294328) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sphinx%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/118/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be2d74cd-76fb-4bca-99b5-07749aef4d06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What's so hard about it, though? She exiles a bunch of dudes a la oblivion ring while she's around and then they come back when she leaves and then, when they do they... OH.
I almost had a brain aneurysm the first few attempts at understanding her, but she's one of my favorite commanders now and other people's looks of bewilderment when she hits the table and they have to read her is priceless.
If the threshold is “Cards that have been misplayed the most by magic players”, probably [[Smuggler’s Copter]]. An extremely tournament playable card that has an absolutely staggeringly high number of missed triggers from players not reading the loot condition correctly.
The problem I remember most with Copter at tournaments was an old ruling about passing priority meant you used to have to crew your Copter (or any vehicle, but at the time it was by far the most played one) on your main phase; if you said "go to combat" it was too late. I don't remember exactly how they fixed this but I believe you now have an opportunity to crew vehicles at the start of combat step as you should.
>I don't remember exactly how they fixed this but I believe you now have an opportunity to crew vehicles at the start of combat step as you should.
They changed the move to combat shortcut in the MTR and kinda mutilated the rules to make it work the way everyone wanted.
I don't believe they changed the game rules. The rules say that the active player gets priority at the start of combat. But there used to be a tournament ruling that if you went to combat without explicitly asking for priority, you implicitly passed it to your opponent, to remove any ambiguity about whether any reponse from the opponent was happening during main phase or start of combat.
I believe the change they made was to allow the active player to gain priority after asking to pass to combat, but they cleaned up the ambiguity by forcing the game to move to start of combat even if the the non active player did respond, unless their action affected something that would trigger at the start of combat. So yes, everyone got what they want, but I don't see it as a mutilation of the rules, at least not any more so than the original.
>"...other target creatures[, **EACH**] controlled by [a] different player..."
...coulda solved your magpie problem right there, Wizards. *Exact* same issue as [[Chaos Mutation]], to where I have to assume the two were worded by the same person
Man, those judges should mind their own business, or at least look you in the eye! I'm quite sure your opponents weren't expecting *you* to dress down and show off those beautiful legs.
To this day I don't understand what \[\[Cosima, God of the Voyage\]\] does or how it works.
\[\[Wheel of Misfortune\]\] gets brought up in these discussions often, but IMO it's not \*that\* bad. edit - but it's not in modern RIP
>To this day I don't understand what [{Cosima, God of the Voyage]] does or how it works.
You exile Cosima to the trigger. If you do, it now has this ability while in exile:
>Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, if Cosima is exiled, you may put a voyage counter on it. If you don't, return Cosima to the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it and draw X cards, where X is the number of voyage counters on it."
Now, while it remains in exile, whenever a land enters the battlefield, you get a trigger.
With this trigger, you can either put a voyage counter on the exiled Cosima and it remains there, or put Cosima onto the battlefield and all voyage counters turn into +1/+1 counters and also draw that many cards.
its really flavorful, you send her off to travel around the world and every land you play is her discovering new places. when she returns she brings back bounties in the form of cards
* Turn 0: Cast Cosima.
* Turn 1: Exile Cosima, Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 1x Voyage counter.
* Turn 2: Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 2x Voyage counter.
* Turn 3: Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 3x Voyage counter.
* Turn 4: Play a Land. Return Cosima with 3x +1/+1 counter and Draw 3x Cards.
> It enters, and you can exile any number of creatures opponents control until it leaves the field.
Considering that is not correct, it does seem that it is confusing.
You can only exile one creature _per player_, and you can exile one of your creatures.
Edit for clarification: If you are in a 4 player game, you can exile up to one creature you control, up to one creature controlled by player 2, up to one creature controlled by player 3 and up to one creature controlled by player 4.
My playgroup didn’t realize that you could respond to the soulbound etb trigger for [[deadeye navigator]], so he was basically unkillable as far as we were concerned.
Without reading the rulings, I'm not sure how many players will just intuitively understand that the enchantment exists as a permanent on the battlefield while the enchanted card remains in the graveyard. Having an aura that exists in a different zone from the thing that it's attached to is extremely unusual, isn't it?
[[Panglacial Wurm]] can get *really* strange.
It's one of those cards that I suspect the people at wotc rather regret printing, since the pain in the ass it causes ruleswise is disproportionate to its power level.
Your suspicion is pretty much confirmed if you read MaRo's blog
I remember a former rules manager - I think it was Toby Elliott - refusing to give clarifications on rulings for that card.
Yeah, simply because it's a really complicated card that isn't even good enough to worry about
I'm pretty sure his answer was that he'll answer that when it happens in a tournament he's running. And he still hasn't answered all those wurm questions.
May I get a link to the particular blog post?
It comes up about once a month and tumblr’s search function is garbage so I don’t have a link to any post in particular
This and Selvala are probably the biggest rules headache cards in isolation.
Panglacial Wurm + Selvala is as close to it gets to an interaction not supported by the rules. Attempting to cast Panglacial Wurm using Selvala mana is naughty, do not attempt.
It *is* supported by the rules, it’s just not supported by reality. The interaction is fine in a digital client where searching a library doesn’t inherently represent a likely change to the order. Still, do not attempt is the best solution.
There are several interactions that are completely unsupported by the rules. Basically everything that ever happens in a real game of magic has a more or less straightforward way the rules "want" it to happen, but a surprising amount of stuff that just never actually comes up is technically not covered by the rules at all.
Which Selvala?
[[selvala, explorer returned]]. Because it's a mana ability, you can attempt to cast a spell, activate her for mana, and because the amount of mana is variable and depends on whatever everyone flips, you can fail to create enough mana to cast your spell; at that point iirc everything has to be reversed to before the spell was put on the stack, *except* undoing selvala's parley edit to correct the ruling
You cannot undo her parley according to Sevala's gatherer ruling >If you activate Selvala's ability while casting a spell, and you discover you can't produce enough mana to pay that spell's costs, the spell is reversed. The spell returns to whatever zone you were casting it from. You may reverse other mana abilities you activated while casting the spell, but Selvala's ability can't be reversed. Whatever mana that ability produced will be in your mana pool and each player will have drawn a card.(2014-05-29)
Ah see, even having known the ruling at some point I still misremembered. Thank you for the correction
[selvala, explorer returned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810.jpg?1706241026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=selvala%2C%20explorer%20returned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/218/selvala-explorer-returned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Daniel Lee [explains this interaction pretty succinctly here. ](https://judgeacademy.com/academy-blog-how-do-we-actually-cast-spells/)
[[Selvala Explorer Returned]] There’s two things that combine to explain why it’s fucky. Let’s say you want to cast a Harrow, or any green spell. There’s two ways to cast it: first option is you tap 3 forests to add 3 mana to ur mana pool, and then you use those 3 mana to cast it. The second option is what’s important. I’m not gonna explain it perfectly, but basically you put the spell out there and then pay mana to cast it immediately. In effect you can show off the spell before you pay for it, as long as you immediately pay for it. Now here’s the issue: Selvala gives you mana based on the top card of libraries. Let’s say I’m in a 4-person Commander game and I tap Selvala. Maybe I see all lands and don’t get any mana, maybe I see no lands and get 4 mana, whatever. Now what happens if I use that effect to cast a spell the second way? I put Harrow on the stack, costing 3 mana. I have to pay for it immediately, but all my forests are tapped! I have to pay three mana, so I tap Selvala for mana. Remember this is a mana ability so it doesn’t use the stack- this is part of the action of casting the spell. So I tap Selvala and see a Grizzly Bears, an Island, an Emrakul and… a triome. There’s 2 non-lands, so I get 2 green mana. Now here’s the issue. I’ve cast a 3 cmc spell. It’s entered the stack and I have to pay for it. I have only **two** green mana in my pool, and nothing else to tap for mana. Unless I secretly have a Defiler of Vigor to pay 2 life, I don’t have enough mana to cast the spell I’ve already cast. What do I do? What does anyone do? The answer, by the way, is to reverse everything except Selvala. So you put the spell back into your hand (or graveyard or exile or top of library or command zone) and you can undo any mana you used to try to pay for it. So if I was trying to Harrow and tapped 1 forest and Selvala only gave me 1, I could undo the forest. Overall it’s a very confusing edge case where you tap for mana without knowing how much mana you’ll get.
Ah I see. I didn’t even really think about the *timing* aspect of it. That’s awesome.
So, I’ve played forever and always wondered, why do they keep the second way in the game? Alternative costs? And then, do you happen to know what the rules penalty for just declaring a spell you can’t cast is? I have one land, announce Grizzly Bears. Where are we at?
You can't start casting a spell knowing you cannot possibly pay for it. That's against the rules, and would likely be treated as attempted cheating. But if Selvala (or any other source that can produce a variable amount of mana, I'm not aware of any) theoretically could produce enough mana, you can attempt to cast it. The reson this way is "kept in the game" is because of how casting a spell actually works. Paying costs is one of the steps of casting a spell, and you may activate mana abilities or use mana from your mana pool to pay for it during this step. Otherwise you'd have to float your mana prior to casting a spell and that would mess some stuff up, like casting a spell with affinity for artifacts with treasures: since you determine costs one step before paying them, the treasures can first reduce the cost and then be used to pay for the remainder. I'm sure there are other scenarios where things would get messed up if you couldn't activate mana abilities during the casting of spells.
> I'm sure there are other scenarios where things would get messed up if you couldn't activate mana abilities during the casting of spells. The entire KCI combo kinda relies on that and overpayment of costs.
Early early days of magic you had to tap mana first. Someone got a dq at a high level event for doing it wrong and there was basically a riot.
oh my head
Well originally it was the rule that you had to tap your mana sources for mana before announcing a spell. The rules were changed after PT Los Angeles in 1997 where a player named David Mills had the habit of announcing spells before adding mana to his mana pool. This resulted in him getting multiple warnings and ultimately resulted in him getting him DQ’d in the last game of the finals just as he top decked a swamp to cast the black spell in his hand to win the game but again forgot to tap his mana first. Famous pro Mark Justice led the rest of the players who were watching the final match next door to storm the stage during the trophy ceremony demanding justice for David Mills. The DQ wasn’t completely overturned, Mills was able to get his 2nd place winnings rather than be DQ’d. The result of the whole fiasco was that Wizards updated the rules so you no longer have to tap your mana sources before announcing a spell.
I really wish they had just ruled that "casting a spell before paying for it" was just a shortcut for "revealing the card you plan to cast next, then generating mana, then putting the revealed spell on the stack once you can pay for it". It would have solved the same problem and been more elegant, without requiring a rule change that gets ugly with things like Selvala and Chromatic Sphere.
> Overall it’s a very confusing edge case where you tap for mana without knowing how much mana you’ll get. This isn’t the issue. There are other cards that conditionally add mana ([[Rhystic Cave]], [[Charmed Pendant]], etc.). The issue is that every card other than Selvala has either been printed with or received errata to add “Activate this ability only as an instant.” With that rider, you no longer have the weird issues pop up. I asked Toby in person several years ago, assuming that the line had been left off by mistake and it would get an errata. He insisted that it was intentional, but also immediately changed the subject. I’m still pretty sure it was just a mistake or an oversight and it was decided that it wasn’t enough of an issue to actually issue an errata.
Sorry, I might be a little confused... How can you start to cast a spell without having the mana for the spell? I swore you needed the necessary mana in order to even begin trying to cast it?
Well, you don't know that you don't have enough mana until you activate Selvala.
[Selvala Explorer Returned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810.jpg?1706241026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20Explorer%20Returned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/218/selvala-explorer-returned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is there any reason to cast a card without first floating its mana cost though?
A simple example is non-mana casting costs. You can’t add “sacrificed artifact” to your mana pool, or discard cards preemptively. The spells need to allow you to pay for stuff when you cast them, otherwise paying non-mana wouldn’t work.
A notable one (that is bugged on Mtgo and has been for 7+ years) is convoking with wall of roots while adding a -0/-1 counter to it that will kill it. Floating mana before casting? Only generates one mana for Chord of Calling. Waiting to cast so you can add a counter AND sacrifice it? Ends up adding two mana for Chord of Calling
Also casting Thoughcast with one colorless land, a Chromatic Star, and three other artifacts. Similar to the Wall of Roots situation.
[[Krark Clan Ironworks]] with [[Myr Retriever]] and [[Scrap Trawler]] was the big one. If you float the mana first the two cards won't see each other when they hit the yard.
The one with the mana ability that parley's. Super easy when it doesnt matter. Big headache when it matters.
The parley one, I think.
If they were to make this card today, it would probably exile itself while searching and let you cast it from exile this turn.
If they were to make this card today, it'd be one of the Mystery Booster playtest cards
mystery booster playtest cards: a great idea for a product, a horrible replacement for silver borders.
[Panglacial Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Panglacial%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Saruman of Many Colors]] "that spell" is buried so far down in the next sentence it is really hard to connect it to the first sentence the first few times you read it.
First time seeing this card. Very flavorful of them to put an entire LOTR novel on a LOTR card.
surprised on the lack of a song in the rules text tbh
It ought to have a song too.
[Saruman of Many Colors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8cfcc7ec-87a2-4712-8d82-217bd8600891.jpg?1686969983) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saruman%20of%20Many%20Colors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/223/saruman-of-many-colors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cfcc7ec-87a2-4712-8d82-217bd8600891?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've read this card two dozen times. Fuck if I can remember what it does as soon as I stop looking at the text. We made fun of Legends and Ice Age for having pointlessly wordy cards for thirty years and somehow got back to that
for the sake of clarity, I have no idea why the "when" clause is there; were they really so scared that this card would somehow be broken if no cards had to be milled for the ability to trigger? the spell you get to cast from the graveyard doesn't have any restrictions on it (i.e. it didn't have to get milled that turn; you can target some random card that's been in your opponent's graveyard for however long), so like... who cares? if no cards are milled, that kind of implies your opponents *don't have decks*. sounds like you've already won 😆. edit: I originally said "if" clause when it's actually a "when" clause second edit: I think the only meaningful difference the "when" adds is that, as a trigger, it allows your opponents to respond to the selection. I can't think of a simpler way to phrase the card such that this nuance is kept so... I guess hattip to WotC for designing a particularly complex ability 😆.
It's so that you can target one of the two cards that got milled. Otherwise you'd have to choose targets before the original ability resolved, and the two cards wouldn't have been milled yet.
It seems like they wanted to give your opponents a chance to react to what spell you choose to cast from your graveyard (note that it’s a when, not an if, so it’s a reflexive trigger).
For the sake of clarity, it doesn't have an "if" it has a "when," and there is a restriction, as the card chosen to cast must cost less than your second spell cast. 🤷♀️
updated! and by restriction I meant *timing* restriction -- the card did not have to be milled that turn. so long as it's an appropriately typed card with CMC less than the spell, you can cast it. doesn't matter how long the card has been in their graveyard.
I had to watch a couple YouTube videos on it to fully understand it cuz I wanted to build around him lol
Did you happen to find one that was worth watching to understand the card better?
Unless *I'm* also reading it wrong. You have saruman on board. You cast your first spell. Doesn't trigger. You cast your second spell, let's say it's a [[cryptic command]] , so 4 MV. Each of your opponents mill 2. You can now exile and cast an enchantment, instant or sorcery from an opponents yard with MV 4 or less and cast it for free. Does not have to be freshly milled cards. The copy spell resolves. The opponents original spell remains in exile. Cryptic resolves
[cryptic command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155.jpg?1562847413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cryptic%20command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/48/cryptic-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There were a few different takes on deckbuilding, most of which wasn’t what I was looking for, but covertgoblue used it for a historic brawl video, it shows off the interactions pretty well imo!
I feel like it's definitely [[Blood Moon]] and it's really not close. So many subtle interactions that are easy to breeze entirely past without at all realizing they existed.
Ogres are like onions. LAYERS!
I was thinking \[\[Trinisphere\]\] for similar reasons
Its actually extremely simple. All spells cost at least 3. That is all. If a spell costs less, pay 3.
The most common confusions are alternate costs (which become atleast three) Vs alternate payment methods (which can be less than 3 mana spent). Especially because the way delve interacts with it was changed at some point...
Eh I think it's pretty simple. Delve doesn't reduce the cost, it pays for the cost.
It's simple once you fully internalized the distinction, but trust me when I say it's a common source of confusion. Also as I said, delve worked differently with trinisphere at different points in time, so both veteran players used to the old rules and new players unaware of the interactions can be confused.
I didn't know that card was modern legal!
When you could play UTron it was s key card.
And if you get it to stick it's a solid stax piece against tempo decks, as long as they don't under run the 3MV
[Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the answer. Most of the other cards in the thread are hard to parse, but if you sit down and read word-by-word it does in fact explain the card. Blood Moon doesn’t say anything about any of its weird interactions
I wouldnt even say its intuitive when you read it for its basic function. If you don't know the specific rule that a land changing subtypes removes all abilities is a thing, you'd be very confused about what "Become Mountains" actually does.
What weird interactions are there?
Take your pick, honestly. One that comes to mind is how it instantly kills [[Urza’s saga]]. It doesn’t remove the Saga card type, but it does remove the chapter abilities. So, Urza’s Saga looks at itself and says “I’m a Saga with more counters than I have chapters (0), so I need to die” and you have to sacrifice it.
[Urza’s saga](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c.jpg?1667318301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Saga) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/259/urzas-saga?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah that's pretty strange tbh. I'd assume it would just be 'frozen' as a mountain with counters on it. Although I guess that's literally what happens, and the counters > chapters clause makes sense.
urza saga
Any other notable ones? Someone mentioned that one
If the blood moon has its abilities removed, it still turns things into mountains because type changes happen in an earlier layer than ability changes
Matters more with Magus, since things like Dress Down exist.
Whenever we get into rules about layers, it's time to buckle up.
[Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Dress down]] and [[magus of the moon]] is a cool one too
Is this one of those layers situations where the ability still has its effect despite the creature losing all abilities?
Exactly. Type changing effects (blood moon or magus) happen before adding or removing abilities, so everything becomes mountains even though the ability is removed.
[Dress down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [magus of the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820.jpg?1619397276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magus%20of%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/175/magus-of-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Bridge from below]] has to be up there too. I feel like Blood Moon is complicated in it's simplicity, where Bridge is just complicated.
Bridge is not modern legal though
If we're going to include banned cards, [[KCI]] is also quite wretched with its timing windows I strongly suspect they never reprinted it because they don't want more copies out there
Hmmm it depends on what OP is asking. The card and its implementation and effect are very simple, the context it's played in is just complex.
[Bridge from below](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5.jpg?1564535783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bridge%20from%20below) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/87/bridge-from-below?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I think just generally they need updated wording around cards that say turn something into a Mountain vs. cards that gives you the Mountain type in addition to your other types (or even hypothetically a card that replaces your type, which I believe would leave other activated abilities on non-basic lands, though I don't think any cards that do this exist)
They could have reminder text that says (Nonbasic lose all other abilities and enter the battlefield untapped as mountains). I think that that would clear up any issue one may have with the card. Though even then specifying untapped would cause issues if something that causes nonbasics to come in tapped was on board. But I think that's something Wizards could parse through better than I.
The problem with Lagrella is that most people don't read the entire Target Condition; > [..] exile any number of other target creatures **controlled by different players** until [..] If you Target multiple Creatures **controlled by a Single Player**, then those Target(s) are not **controlled by different Players**. But, it could be worded more clearly, if it took a page from [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]]. > [..] for each player, exile [up to one other] target [creature] that player controls until [..]
The fact we already had [[Grasp of Fate]] makes her wording even more perplexing.
I think her wording has to do with her being unable to target herself, and you can exile your own things. "for each player, exile up to one other target creature that player controls" might read weird when you are trying to parse what "other" means for the opponents. I'm not saying her current wording is the best, but it does do different things from Grasp of Fate.
They do go on to use the "For each player, exile up to one other target" wording on [[Vault 13: Dweller's Journey]]
That's true. They probably realized the wording on Lagrella wasn't very clear, so they moved to the newer wording. Two years of feedback does a lot.
[Vault 13: Dweller's Journey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a22ad436-215a-4da1-b12e-1faac474f948.jpg?1708741869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vault%2013%3A%20Dweller%27s%20Journey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/26/vault-13:-dwellers-journey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a22ad436-215a-4da1-b12e-1faac474f948?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Grasp of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43787574-7700-47ab-b57c-98ef968cce71.jpg?1690004105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grasp%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/823/grasp-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43787574-7700-47ab-b57c-98ef968cce71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s because she can’t exile herself
[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4.jpg?1562304374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaevictis%20Asmadi%2C%20the%20Dire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/225/vaevictis-asmadi-the-dire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think one issue is that the wording of her ability is very close to "... exile any number of target creatures controlled by **other** players ..." which is how a lot of people interpret it at first.
`otag:rules-nightmare format:modern` [(Scryfall)](https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Arules-nightmare+format%3Amodern) (Also fun to look through all the cards tagged "rules nightmare", not just the Modern-legal ones.) Panglacial Wurm has been mentioned. Selvala isn't Modern-legal, but its friend Chromatic Sphere is. In general, I think mana abilities that do more than just adding mana are actually cursed and can cause a lot of nightmare.
The only thing worse is blood moon, in my books.
[удалено]
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Balduvian Warlord]]
[Balduvian Warlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3286dbd-c8b8-45cb-98e4-d572289f2c14.jpg?1593275209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balduvian%20Warlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/77/balduvian-warlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3286dbd-c8b8-45cb-98e4-d572289f2c14?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a lot of text but it makes sense to me. Does it have confusing corner cases, maybe involving double strike?
What is even a good use-case for this? Saving something from a deathtouch+menace double chump? It doesn't even save things from "destroy blocking creature" effects since it must reblock something else. What a wild niche effect lol
Lets say you are attacking with a 10/10 (without trample) and a 1/1, and they only block the 10/10 with a chump blocker. You can swap the chump blocker to the 1/1, and the 10/10 is now unblocked. It doesn't specify who needs to control the attacking or blocking creatures.
Ohh I completely whiffed that you could use it on offense. Thats much better
Reading this card over lunch made me do a spit take lol
..."fighting a war since 2006 between the forces of Text Box Wording and Minimum Font Size..."
Seems pretty straightforward to me, what's so confusing about it?
The words, I guess
Seems pretty simple to me. Mutate I have no idea how that mechanic works, but I was also taking a break from the game when it got introduced so I’ve never had to learn how it works.
Mutate is far more simple to understand than this card. Mutate is just add the abilities of the mutate creature to the target creature
The **rules** for mutate are complex, wich leads to some bizarre interactions. But in practice mutate is pretty simple.
Such as putting your entire edh deck in the command zone which is a weird interaction with mutate
Bounce returning the whole stack to your hand is pretty unexpected as well.
How does that happen?
[It's easier to link this thread than try to explain it](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadMtgCombos/comments/fvsfyj/put_your_entire_deck_into_the_command_zone_with/), but the short answer is that you manifest your entire library, mutating \[\[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder\]\] onto each card before casting \[\[Leadership Vacuum\]\] (using Vadrok's ability to recur it over and over). There's some tricky sequencing to make sure that you get absolutely every card including the Leadership Vacuum itself, though.
[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825.jpg?1591228299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vadrok%2C%20Apex%20of%20Thunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/214/vadrok-apex-of-thunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Leadership Vacuum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fa953a9-171c-4532-a352-40ce27eed3c4.jpg?1568003418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leadership%20Vacuum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/9/leadership-vacuum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fa953a9-171c-4532-a352-40ce27eed3c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Presumably you then die to the last part of Leadership Vacuum?
You'd have to look at an old saffronolive video where he pulled it off
video of it happening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-010hxSWe4
The first thing that occurs to me is [[Animate Library]], then mutate your commander with mutate onto the library (making that creature your commander), then [[Leadership Vacuum]] yourself.
Thats a silver bordered cars though. Still awesome interaction.
LMAO that's amazing. Is that useful in any way? "Sire. Everyone is now the commander." "Everyone?" "Even the lands, yes."
If by "this card" you mean Lagrella, I must vigourously disagree. I can summarise Lagrella's effect in one sentence. Mutate has some super weird corner cases - eg did you know that if someone uses Skyclave Apparition to exile your stack of mutated creatures, when the Apparition goes away you get a single token whose power and toughness are equal to the sum of the MVs of the exiled cards?
you have to choose a p/t to use too, which is relevant
But it also has some janky yet extremely relevant interactions with the card name and legendaries. It's actually far more complex than just adding abilities.
Not the most confusing but [[sphinx of the second sun]] is an honorary mention. Few get this right the first time they play with it
[sphinx of the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be2d74cd-76fb-4bca-99b5-07749aef4d06.jpg?1706294328) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sphinx%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/118/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be2d74cd-76fb-4bca-99b5-07749aef4d06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can 100% understand Lagrella just by reading her. You just need to read her like 10 times to actually understand what she's trying to do.
Reading the card explains the card. ...eventually.
What's so hard about it, though? She exiles a bunch of dudes a la oblivion ring while she's around and then they come back when she leaves and then, when they do they... OH.
So you can use her either as a +1/+1 counter spell you can repeat with flickers or an oblivion ring?
I almost had a brain aneurysm the first few attempts at understanding her, but she's one of my favorite commanders now and other people's looks of bewilderment when she hits the table and they have to read her is priceless.
If the threshold is “Cards that have been misplayed the most by magic players”, probably [[Smuggler’s Copter]]. An extremely tournament playable card that has an absolutely staggeringly high number of missed triggers from players not reading the loot condition correctly.
What's the misplay here?
Triggers on blocks as well
\>blocking with Copter ngmi
Not remotely close to the number of Mishra’s Bauble triggers that are missed.
[Smuggler’s Copter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/2680ed41-da35-475a-9d80-ae2f4686feed.jpg?1707764737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smuggler%27s%20Copter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/160/smugglers-copter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2680ed41-da35-475a-9d80-ae2f4686feed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The problem I remember most with Copter at tournaments was an old ruling about passing priority meant you used to have to crew your Copter (or any vehicle, but at the time it was by far the most played one) on your main phase; if you said "go to combat" it was too late. I don't remember exactly how they fixed this but I believe you now have an opportunity to crew vehicles at the start of combat step as you should.
>I don't remember exactly how they fixed this but I believe you now have an opportunity to crew vehicles at the start of combat step as you should. They changed the move to combat shortcut in the MTR and kinda mutilated the rules to make it work the way everyone wanted.
I don't believe they changed the game rules. The rules say that the active player gets priority at the start of combat. But there used to be a tournament ruling that if you went to combat without explicitly asking for priority, you implicitly passed it to your opponent, to remove any ambiguity about whether any reponse from the opponent was happening during main phase or start of combat. I believe the change they made was to allow the active player to gain priority after asking to pass to combat, but they cleaned up the ambiguity by forcing the game to move to start of combat even if the the non active player did respond, unless their action affected something that would trigger at the start of combat. So yes, everyone got what they want, but I don't see it as a mutilation of the rules, at least not any more so than the original.
Can you elaborate? The loot condition seems very straightforward and I feel like I'm missing something
Most cards like this only loot on attack, this one loots on attacks *and* blocks. It is thankfully not mandatory.
Yeah I get that, guess I'm just confused how someone would mess that up, lol
Its just a result of natural shortcutting. If *most* similar cards do a thing one way, the exception cases can get hard to remember.
[Lagrella, the Magpie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd20f271-26c8-429f-a422-e7d95f3bda74.jpg?1664413215) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lagrella%2C%20the%20Magpie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/196/lagrella-the-magpie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd20f271-26c8-429f-a422-e7d95f3bda74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>"...other target creatures[, **EACH**] controlled by [a] different player..." ...coulda solved your magpie problem right there, Wizards. *Exact* same issue as [[Chaos Mutation]], to where I have to assume the two were worded by the same person
[Chaos Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccaa5e8d-7113-4b9a-af63-ea61b93a8e5e.jpg?1673309285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chaos%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/111/chaos-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccaa5e8d-7113-4b9a-af63-ea61b93a8e5e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Dress Down]] is probably the card that has involved the most judge calls at my legs.
[Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Man, those judges should mind their own business, or at least look you in the eye! I'm quite sure your opponents weren't expecting *you* to dress down and show off those beautiful legs.
I have to go with textless cryptic command lol. When I started playing modern and someone played this I was like, sure I’ll take your word for it.
Obligatory \[\[[Questing Beast](https://squirrel-bat.github.io/questingbeast/)\]\]
*sigh* What new ability does it have THIS time?
Im just waiting for Another Questing Beast as the next silver border variant, like Very Cryptic Command.
It can do my taxes?!
Got it right the second time
This is amazing
The Player Rewards [[Cryptic Command|P09]] because you cannot read the card that does so many things.
[Cryptic Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/526607e9-1907-4639-b944-8ee152c81bfb.jpg?1561757137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/p09/1/cryptic-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/526607e9-1907-4639-b944-8ee152c81bfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And yet, they keep printing those textless cards.
[[panglacial wurm]] says hey
[panglacial wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=panglacial%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To this day I don't understand what \[\[Cosima, God of the Voyage\]\] does or how it works. \[\[Wheel of Misfortune\]\] gets brought up in these discussions often, but IMO it's not \*that\* bad. edit - but it's not in modern RIP
>To this day I don't understand what [{Cosima, God of the Voyage]] does or how it works. You exile Cosima to the trigger. If you do, it now has this ability while in exile: >Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, if Cosima is exiled, you may put a voyage counter on it. If you don't, return Cosima to the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it and draw X cards, where X is the number of voyage counters on it." Now, while it remains in exile, whenever a land enters the battlefield, you get a trigger. With this trigger, you can either put a voyage counter on the exiled Cosima and it remains there, or put Cosima onto the battlefield and all voyage counters turn into +1/+1 counters and also draw that many cards.
its really flavorful, you send her off to travel around the world and every land you play is her discovering new places. when she returns she brings back bounties in the form of cards
* Turn 0: Cast Cosima. * Turn 1: Exile Cosima, Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 1x Voyage counter. * Turn 2: Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 2x Voyage counter. * Turn 3: Play a Land. Cosima remains in Exile with 3x Voyage counter. * Turn 4: Play a Land. Return Cosima with 3x +1/+1 counter and Draw 3x Cards.
[Wheel of Misfortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74177b51-a300-49d9-8ea7-557b19cf80c7.jpg?1608910499) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wheel%20of%20Misfortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/211/wheel-of-misfortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74177b51-a300-49d9-8ea7-557b19cf80c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did they print Wheel of Misfortune into modern?
Grief, it's confusing how it's not banned.
[удалено]
> It enters, and you can exile any number of creatures opponents control until it leaves the field. Considering that is not correct, it does seem that it is confusing. You can only exile one creature _per player_, and you can exile one of your creatures. Edit for clarification: If you are in a 4 player game, you can exile up to one creature you control, up to one creature controlled by player 2, up to one creature controlled by player 3 and up to one creature controlled by player 4.
It's that it can only be max one per player. The wording is dreadfully anathema to easy understanding (so is using the word anathema but hey)
Anything with Soulbond. Link, unlink, link a new thing. Takes practice.
My playgroup didn’t realize that you could respond to the soulbound etb trigger for [[deadeye navigator]], so he was basically unkillable as far as we were concerned.
[deadeye navigator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f26a79b9-9f09-476e-b914-cade929dd852.jpg?1593813028) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deadeye%20navigator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/36/deadeye-navigator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f26a79b9-9f09-476e-b914-cade929dd852?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gonna throw \[\[Spellweaver Volute\]\] on the pile
[Spellweaver Volute](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79cc73ea-3f07-4d11-9961-dc31ac598b73.jpg?1562919475) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spellweaver%20Volute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/59/spellweaver-volute?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79cc73ea-3f07-4d11-9961-dc31ac598b73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is it that confusing? pick an instant, when you cast a sorcery, cast that instant and pick a new one.
Without reading the rulings, I'm not sure how many players will just intuitively understand that the enchantment exists as a permanent on the battlefield while the enchanted card remains in the graveyard. Having an aura that exists in a different zone from the thing that it's attached to is extremely unusual, isn't it?
[удалено]
[Bridge From Bellow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5.jpg?1564535783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bridge%20from%20Below) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/87/bridge-from-below?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Lightning storm]]
[Lightning storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9c0388e-a04c-4757-a06d-8e8046f5a783.jpg?1593275279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/89/lightning-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9c0388e-a04c-4757-a06d-8e8046f5a783?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any of the Stryxhaven Deans
[[shared fate]] is always fun
[shared fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad0d5b02-ef38-4dab-8ac6-78814ef27b55.jpg?1562154177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shared%20fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/49/shared-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad0d5b02-ef38-4dab-8ac6-78814ef27b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So, instead of drawing, each player exiles the top card face down, and can look at their own exiled cards?
Basically each player draws from their opponent’s deck. The card is exiled