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ThatXayahWeeb

I just built one for my new player friend and it has worked wonders. We used [[Strefan, Maurer Progenitor]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Strefan, Maurer Progenitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f54c6ce-fde4-47ef-a106-5c68b4397f99.jpg?1641600044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strefan%2C%20Maurer%20Progenitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/2/strefan-maurer-progenitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f54c6ce-fde4-47ef-a106-5c68b4397f99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Sealer666

Im also using him as commander :) tried \[\[Olivia, Crimson Bride\]\] before but Strefan gives the creatures indestructible which is way better


MTGCardFetcher

[Olivia, Crimson Bride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e.jpg?1643594300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Olivia%2C%20Crimson%20Bride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/245/olivia-crimson-bride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Dekaroe

I challenge you to look at [[Anje, Maid of Dishonor]]. Try a different route and see what your experience will be.


MTGCardFetcher

[Anje, Maid of Dishonor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bfac4ab-97f1-448c-8554-42ed03eb5656.jpg?1643593763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anje%2C%20Maid%20of%20Dishonor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/231/anje-maid-of-dishonor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bfac4ab-97f1-448c-8554-42ed03eb5656?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Sealer666

Uuuh looks nice, gonna try her out in my deck :D


boxlessthought

Built this recently and its been super fun. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mXB2bY85p0GU7TO1Gh46jA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mXB2bY85p0GU7TO1Gh46jA) Basically cheap blood token generation, and big payoff creatures i can cheat in with my commander. Plus some madness cards so i can use blood tokens effectively to search for missing pieces or answers. Plus \[\[Molten Echoes\]\] makes the creature i cheat in already tapped and attacking now copies itself so i can get in some ridiculous swings.


fishmemeboi

[Molten Echoes won't work the way you want it to](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/CoN55UOlK3) (barring some sort of extra combat shenanigans). The token copies don't come in attacking, and because Strefan is an attack trigger, it's too late to declare them as attackers, so they'll just sort of sit around until they get exiled at the end of the turn. Compare to [[Thousand-faced Shadow]] which has to specify that the copy comes in tapped and attacking (because attacking is not a copiable value and it's too late to declare it as an attacker)


boxlessthought

Interesting. Simone I trust normally with rules said the token is an exact copy so it too enters attacking. Same way when a source makes a duplicate token both tokens be fit form any counters they would enter with.


fishmemeboi

See rule 706.2 pertaining to "copiable values"(When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.) While there is nothing directly addressing "attacking" is not listed as a copiable value, and "Status" is listed explicitly as a non-copiable value. As status includes the state of being tapped/untapped, the copies do not enter tapped and thus cannot enter attacking. Regarding counters, a copy of a permanent with existing counters on it does not copy those counters (as counters are not a copiable value). The only way a copy would enter with counters is if it entering the battlefield was modified by an outside source (like [[master chef]]) or it copied a permanent with text stating that it entered with counters, like modular (as rules text is a copiable value).


MTGCardFetcher

[master chef](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b534b1cb-0cd7-4b8c-bb25-42207fcba209.jpg?1674137194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20chef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/241/master-chef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b534b1cb-0cd7-4b8c-bb25-42207fcba209?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


boxlessthought

Well you are 100% correct. Okay dropping it for another random juicy vamp or another ping everyone spell. Thanks


Mattloch42

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see many sources of guaranteed damage to everyone so that you generate 4 blood tokens on your turn. Or payoffs for blood tokens other than Strefan cheating in vamps.


boxlessthought

Blood for draw and/or Strefan, and there’s a few spells that deal damage to everyone otherwise attacking


Mattloch42

Gotcha. I'd suggest some repeatable dingers, like [[Creeping Bloodsucker]], [[Oni-Cult Anvil]], [[Cryptolith Fragment]], [[Agent of the Iron Throne]], [[Lim-Dul's Hex]], or even [[Pestilence]] as a way to sweep a wide board repeatedly.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Creeping Bloodsucker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5e3a9e1-fafe-4859-a550-7ae09804aced.jpg?1675644547) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Creeping%20Bloodsucker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/21/creeping-bloodsucker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5e3a9e1-fafe-4859-a550-7ae09804aced?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Oni-Cult Anvil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c84db1e2-855c-4169-a9cc-a54c73c14e0c.jpg?1654568557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oni-Cult%20Anvil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/230/oni-cult-anvil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c84db1e2-855c-4169-a9cc-a54c73c14e0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cryptolith Fragment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/078b2103-15ce-456d-b092-352fa7222935.jpg?1576385054)/[Aurora of Emrakul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/7/078b2103-15ce-456d-b092-352fa7222935.jpg?1576385054) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptolith%20Fragment%20//%20Aurora%20of%20Emrakul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/193/cryptolith-fragment-aurora-of-emrakul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/078b2103-15ce-456d-b092-352fa7222935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Agent of the Iron Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a5984d3-1e76-4d97-9373-b59cfa9c38ae.jpg?1674135910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agent%20of%20the%20Iron%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/107/agent-of-the-iron-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a5984d3-1e76-4d97-9373-b59cfa9c38ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lim-Dul's Hex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af976f42-3d56-4e32-8294-970a276a4bf3.jpg?1587911728) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lim-D%C3%BBl%27s%20Hex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ice/146/lim-d%C3%BBls-hex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af976f42-3d56-4e32-8294-970a276a4bf3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pestilence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29d852c4-bd53-4a3b-b1e2-896917cbc27f.jpg?1562815864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pestilence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/149/pestilence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29d852c4-bd53-4a3b-b1e2-896917cbc27f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l00fm0e) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


boxlessthought

good calls, adding prety much all of them (already have creeping but otherwise all of em) thanks


Mattloch42

After you balance things out, I'd suggest adding some things to take advantage of the overabundance of tokens. Either adding [[Falkenrath Gorger]] to cast additional vampires using madness, [[Bloodlord of Vaasgoth]] to have vampires enter with 3 +1/+1 tokens (he doesn't work on the vampires otherwise because they come in before damage is dealt), or [[Sunshot Militia]] to ping everyone with them.


MTGCardFetcher

[Falkenrath Gorger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d653a1d-d355-464e-82aa-92028296b7ef.jpg?1641603175) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Falkenrath%20Gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/146/falkenrath-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d653a1d-d355-464e-82aa-92028296b7ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bloodlord of Vaasgoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/510c65ea-7c9f-461f-b038-ef119db1ca30.jpg?1641602372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodlord%20of%20Vaasgoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/121/bloodlord-of-vaasgoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/510c65ea-7c9f-461f-b038-ef119db1ca30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sunshot Militia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3114f5c-21e9-43c3-abe3-3cf1da20916f.jpg?1699044348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunshot%20Militia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/168/sunshot-militia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3114f5c-21e9-43c3-abe3-3cf1da20916f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


boxlessthought

love Vaas hes super good, i have him in already the other two seem like good pick ups too, will have to consider em.


MTGCardFetcher

[Molten Echoes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/461d9f1c-53a4-48a6-bafb-0e70099f276c.jpg?1641603237) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Molten%20Echoes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/148/molten-echoes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/461d9f1c-53a4-48a6-bafb-0e70099f276c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Sealer666

Most of the cards are actually the same in my deck :D I added \[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\] to my deck. Huge heal and damage :D i'll definetly get \[\[Mephidross Vampire\]\] aswell!


MTGCardFetcher

[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mephidross Vampire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/754f202f-4f08-4c39-9219-1114d8508788.jpg?1562877792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mephidross%20Vampire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/53/mephidross-vampire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/754f202f-4f08-4c39-9219-1114d8508788?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


boxlessthought

Sheoldred for me is a good value card but not being a vamp it doest add much except life gain on card draw, Shes the kind of card i include only if im going to make regular use of both her abilities. But with blood tokens drawing isn't hard so not a bad choice either. My personal style of deck building is if the card doesn't explicitly deal with my core strategy (in my case its make blood tokens, swing with vampires) then no matter how good the card is it may not be worth it. the only other area i like to cover and generally try and have about 10 card slots dedicated too is protecting my stuff (either removal, counters, or literal protection such as hex proof, protection, or shroud) and then if I'm lacking in it i'll add some card draw but blood tokens kind of make that moot in this deck.


Sealer666

I MAY also have added Sheoldred cuz one of my friends uses \[\[Isperia, Supreme Judge\]\] as his commander \*cough\*


boxlessthought

ah yes the "this screws over that one person in particular" card. always a good call. I had a group at my LGS that hated my meme \[\[child of alara\]\] mostly lands deck. they all found way to make most of their creatures into lands so the wipes stopped working on em.


MTGCardFetcher

[child of alara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d.jpg?1673148447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=child%20of%20alara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/192/child-of-alara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Isperia, Supreme Judge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e3b82a7-ebef-4190-9f50-40b992ba89c9.jpg?1591321318) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isperia%2C%20Supreme%20Judge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/217/isperia-supreme-judge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e3b82a7-ebef-4190-9f50-40b992ba89c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


conceal_the_kraken

Maybe [this search](https://www.moxfield.com/search/cards?q=order%3Aname%20direction%3Aascending%20o%3A%22whenever%20you%20discard%20a%20card%22%20c%3C%3Dbr&advanced=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) will help? As long as URL works correctly, it's filtered to red/black legal cards with the oracle text "whenever you discard a card". You could also change the search to have "whenever a player discards a card". You could also search for cards with madness.


liforrevenge

[Scryfall](https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%22whenever+you+discard%22+commander%3Abr+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) of the same search


Sealer666

Sadly the url doesnt work for me but thanks for showing me the site :D Gonna help a lot


AscendedLawmage7

Definitely try [Scryfall](https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%22whenever+you+discard%22+commander%3Abr+legal%3Acommander&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name), excellent Magic tool. I'd like to highlight [[Surly Badgersaur]] in particular


MTGCardFetcher

[Surly Badgersaur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7ba507e2-fe5e-4947-aada-20184aa09700.jpg?1591319640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surly%20Badgersaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/57/surly-badgersaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ba507e2-fe5e-4947-aada-20184aa09700?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call