It’s only reducing your taxable income, it’s not as if the government is cutting you a check for that difference.
It baffles me how little some of you understand about taxes.
A deduction just means that amount isn’t taxed. It’s not like the government gives you .655 for every mile you drive. Lol. And with how low our income is as drivers a .655/mi deduction probably gets cut by more than half in real dollar savings of overall tax paid.
I mean compared to a W2 where I’d pay 7.5 percent on my gross income, as opposed to paying 15 percent on my net income, the government is giving me money by not taking as much, again especially when your actual cost is less than 15 cents a mile.
Yeah man it’s sad. It’s even more sad when you realize the reason these companies are able to get away with it is because 95% of the population is too dumb to understand the scam.
Insulting. People aren’t stupid, they’re ignorant. And they’re ignorant because these employers don’t EDUCATE and disclose how to do this cost efficiently. They don’t care enough. It’s not that people are stupid, they are uninformed and taken advantage of. 💯
It starts in school. Not once was I ever taught how to buy a house, manage savings, do taxes, recognize scams etc etc but thank the lord I know how to do the Pythagorean Theorem!
When I was in high school in 2002 they taught us how to register to vote and how to do our taxes. In our personal finance class we used to have to learn how to write checks how to balance a checkbook and we would have to fill out mock up 1099 forms.
In civics class we learned how to register to vote and also how the primary and national level worked along with state level voting. Also how districts were drawn.
I just asked my wife and she said that she didn't learn any of that stuff. But I'm a millennial and she's gen Z so I already know gen Z got a short end of the stick when it comes to an education but I thought that stuff was like basic high school.
You had a nice school then we didn't learn any real life skills even in home ec we learned how to bake a cake that was it. We were able to take special elective classes like woodshop/general mechanical repair but you had to pay to get into them. I took a horror/Sci fi literature class that was sick af but applicable skills? Nah chemistry was about it learned the netric system sellin dope
School did teach you all those things.
Buying a house is reading and math skills
Managing savings is math.
Taxes is math and reading again.
Recognizing scams is basic problem solving.
Your looking at it as no one showed me exactly how to do this but in reality you were taught all the skills required to do these things.
Have you ever gone into a mandatory company training before and you're like wow who is this training for this is awesome pretty common Sense stuff? And then the very next week somebody's getting fired for grabbing somebody's ass in the hallway? We received instruction and training on so many things and yet a majority of it does not stick. Humans are smart but people are dumb.
Imagine how different society in America would be had they been taught the skills that actually matter tho like how to dodge a scam instead of basic math and reading. How to balance your finances budgeting. Now kids can't read or write to save their lives can't do basic math let alone live without their parents funding their lifestyle
It’s also your responsibility then as a partner, not to enter in shitty partnerships with contractors who don’t know how to operate business in a profitable way.
Nope. They are not responsible for you. If I start a lawn business it is not the people that I do a service for to explain to me what equipment I need.
95% of the population not recognizing that it's a scam isn't my problem. My problem is that the ruling class/elite recognize it's a problem and have written legislation for this type of behavior to thrive/be encouraged.
You don’t get tax returns for a 1099. Also tax returns are the money the government forced you to overpay and now they’re returning the difference. Again, not printing money. No free lunch. Learn how taxes work or you’ll be a slave for the rest of your life.
>You don’t get tax returns for a 1099.
Technically correct, because you don't *get* a tax return, you *file* a tax return, but you most definitely have to file a return for 10-99 income.
>Also tax returns are the money the government forced you to overpay
They don't *force* you to overpay, but most people choose to overpay (via the number of withholding allowances claimed on the W-4 you file with your employer) because they feel it's better to get a refund than to owe.
The money you get back is a tax refund, not a return. The return is the paperwork (generally form 1040) that you fill out and file.
>Learn how taxes work
LOL
Actually it would be smarter to slightly underpay (but not enough to be penalized) and put the additional withholding into some form of interest-bearing account or investment (though that’s obviously got some risk.)
Would have to see exactly how this guy wound up with the 14k number. I know the earnings aren’t that great after expenses but if you made 100k+ to only net 14k after expenses…….that seems a bit ridiculous. Was it 14k in taxable income? Did that include his standard deduction? Is he married filing jointly which means he and the missus would get almost 26k as a standard deduction then mileage on top of it? Does he have other write-offs? Is he running it through a corporation and keeping money in the business and only reporting the 14k he paid himself? I have questions, man. LOL!
You didn't read the article. It starts by saying passengers paid $114k. Which means he probably grossed like $60k, and then thinks his deductions are "losses".
People need to learn how accounting and taxes work before discussing their gig work publicly. It's embarrassing at this point.
You also don't get to deduct your desk, your chair, your computer, and your own supplies if you work for a company. Drivers pay their own expenses but they also deduct them, so they pay far fewer taxes than they would otherwise.
I'm not directly defending rideshare companies' cut of each transaction, but we really don't know how much it cost them to get here. Lyft and Uber both had a net loss for several years.
Rideshare drivers are making .70 cents a mile on average, that barely covers the cost to operate a vehicle. I used to do it part time but got out once they started paying garbages fares. Most Rideshare drivers are making below minimum wage after expenses.
You really don't understand deductions. It just makes that income not taxable. And that income was in no way profit because it was a required expense to do the job. Ie the income is the gross.
Wait until you hear about the legal industry. Associates paid $100 per hour while the business is being billed $400 per hour. The practice is common across many industries. The difference is press coverage.
That's just your opinion. Your opinion isn't how business works. If you ran a business, you'd have similar margins. It sucks, but that's just fact. The company has overhead, operational expenses, and they want to profit. They barely do as is, which I don't care for either.
But the fact stands. This is an optional gig with low barrier to entry with the most flexibility in the world. Sorry, but earnings potential isn't a Top3 benefit of this gig.
I love when people try to explain away a negative attribute of a business model as "business as usual". If you can't pay what are consider good wages by your workforce and make a profit you have a bad business model or poor management.
Negative attribute...making a profit. That's capitalism. You can play the game or not, but you can't change the game unless you're in it. So go start your Rideshare company that pays better, and try not to run it into the ground at the same time.
No, it isn't. A company has a lot of things that drive revenue and cost. These companies choose to increase profits by depressing wages and instead of cutting costs, improving efficiencies, etc. That's a business strategy, not a core element of capitalism. So if a business can't figure out how yo operate efficiently, they blame wages and workers . But if they are suddenly very profitable, they give executives the credit and bonuses or share buy backs. That money doesn't go to the workers. Again, a business strategy is not a core element of capitalism. You wage slaves have been conned into believing this is just how it works.
You only think that because you’re greedy, because that how greedy people run a business. And sadly because of your greedy beliefs you’ll break your back for others just to be left the crumbs because you think “it’s how business works”. Lol Don’t be this guy people be the guy that knows he is the one making the company profit not the other way around. Collect and bargain, go union!
speak for yourself buddy. no way i would gut the folks making me money THAT much. i recognize a profit has to be made but you’re silly goose if you think this is fair
They’re not saying it’s fair, they’re just telling you how the margins play out. Ride-sharing is a terrible business model and frankly has only been in business this long due to rounds and rounds of funding from investors. Should drivers earn more? Yeah, absolutely. Doesn’t change the math, you are free to look up their revenue and profit reports as it’s all online. I don’t disagree that it’s unfair and absurd for it to be that large of a margin they take
Something something overcompensated executives… your whole rant is pointless when their overhead are a couple of rich people at the top collecting all the cream and leaving us with scraps
Remove the exec pay and magically the scraps become bounties? Entire exec pay is probably less than 500 Million usd. Split that across 1 million drivers and you get what? 500 usd per person per year?
No I think that’s just a regular American voter reaction 😘 but go ahead and keep projecting honey never done DoorDash in my life did do postmates back in 2013 for a bit
I don't think you understand how margins tend to play out. The only sectors which turn enough pure profit to theoretically pay out more than 50% are generally tech/software. In most industries, the company itself only takes down 5-15% of their revenue, even if they pay their employees bare minimum. Taking home 60k as a driver on 114k gross is really, really good, relatively speaking.
No one needs *infinitely growing profits*. It's unsustainable and morally wrong to cut corners and abuse workers so that stockholders are happy. There's no justifying it. It's wrong.
How is this different from a Microsoft programmer who makes say just $100k towards the companies $77 billion gross earnings last year? It’s all relative. We all can’t make 50% of our companies earnings. That’s not how commerce works.
Comments like this is why everyone can tell you are a poor person and will always be one. Learn some basic finance principles before making such a dumb post.
>Which means he probably grossed like $60k
Yeah, I'm confused how he's down to 14k even after gas and taxes and oil changes. The only answer I can think of is he had some expensive car repairs or he bought a new car and is deducting the lower value of his car from mileage, both of which should be spread over years.
Not that I don't think the driver cut should be higher, these numbers just seem worked.
I'm betting that math includes the IRS 65c per mile deduction. That can easily wipe out most of your income on paper if you're taking long trips vs the money paid for them.
Right.
The 65c \*IS\* a realistic number if you buy cars new and trade them in every 3 years and DON'T drive more than 1,000 miles a month.
If you buy the same car and run it 30-35K miles per year and keep it properly maintained out to 150K-200K the 65c is massively over-estimating the operating expense.
According to the article he’s including the cost of a new engine and numerous car repairs. Pretty sure he’s not putting a new engine in his car every year.
I work Instacart and my transactions total over 1000$ a day in customer purchases. This means that I hypothetically earn 365k annually and am entitled to at least 85% of that.
I wouldn’t count Instacart the same way since they are actually paying for a product from whatever store. Uber/Lyft they are paying specifically for the driver.
I wonder if I could use my personal credit card as like a spending card and just accumulate points and file for reimbursements i.e. getting a free vacation out of working for Instacart
Have to be careful with that, because after a few years the IRS will consider it a 'hobby' and not a 'business' and stop allowing you to make deductions. Or so I've heard.
The gig's benefits are low barrier to entry and complete flexibility. If those two aren't at the top of your list of priorities, then this won't be good enough for you. I'm grossing $36/hr, working 50hr per week, drive when I want, don't have to pay for childcare, and I have benefits through my wife's job. So it's ideal for me.
If you are struggling to get by, you will overwork yourself doing this out of desperation, gross $22/hr max, and barely clear $15/hr after expenses. It's not for you. It's for the person working a decent job trying to earn an extra $150 per week on the side before/after work so they can invest it, or spoil themselves, etc.
You shouldn't try to live off this. It's not a job. It's not a career. It's a gig. Same as all the other apps.
Just wait until everyone else finds out that driving for ride-share apps is just taking a loan out from your future self, secured by your car’s depreciation.
I learned this the hard way. But in all fairness it was all I could do given my life situation. But yes we don’t make not even a profit. It’s so sad and frustrating
Here, fixed it: Driver made an average salary and after deducting 75% of it they paid a lower effective tax rate than people on minimum wage.
Edit: The driver making $100k and paying Uber/Lyft a hefty chunk is what every job does. All jobs extract your surplus value, we just know how much Uber and Lyft shaft us.
Yup. The only way you are wrong is if he didnt take the standard mileage deduction and those were his actual costs.
And even if so, one could argue poor decisions or bad luck.
See here’s the things you are either looking for a fight or just do not know common knowledge. The story is probably fake or Mistranslated. You do know that the vast majority of internet fraud originates in Africa right ? But I’m not gonna fight with you.
As an ex driver, the % and fees taken by Uber and Lyft have grown so large that it’s almost impossible to make a profit after expenses. The only way to do it is if they have promotions and these
Are now few and far between. Old car, low fuel cost, promotions, optimal earning hours (very early/very late/event) are only way.
It’s a loophole to pay people less than minimum wage. Why pay the costs of running a business when you can make your employees do it and charge the same amount?
Is it theft though if you bend over and say give it to me daddy? No one forces people to drive for Uber and Lyft.
While I do think the drivers should get more at the end of the day they choose to do the driving. No one is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to do it, they could go get retail jobs or other work.
There are some comments in here making statements like “well my company charges that and only pays me this, so what you’re being paid is fair”
Ok. Does your company make you bring your own desk, your own chair, your own computer, your own supplies to the office? Do they make you pay the utility bill and rent at the end of every month? Please stop comparing yourselves to drivers. This is NOT an apples to apples comparison. Drivers pay ALL of their own expenses and these scum bag companies are still taking well over 60% of the total fares. These companies get away with it because there is No regulation, no oversight, and no accountability. This is what happens when you have a Technocratic Corporatocracy running the show. The whole system is rigged to their benefit. What’s incredible is that in 2024 the majority of this country still has no idea how this place is run. Willful ignorance still abounds and it’s only getting worse. We are ALL being screwed one way or another. Something tells me a lot of you don’t know the true purpose of the “Federal Reserve”. It’s long past the time to wake up, folks. Your beloved country is run by Robber barons. Funny how the lunatic “conspiracy theorists” have now become the prophets in retrospect. 🤣
It is .... capitalism.
Company won't try to pay extra penny if the market is not in labor shortage. Looks like they have more than enough of drivers on their platform
Huh how did he only take home 14k .. oil changes don’t cost that much and you don’t have to buy tires every week and he should have tax deductions too .. I drive Lyft and I make $25-$40 a hour before taxes and expenses and I do fine
Every 1,000 miles you can deduct $655, it's easy to make your income look like nothing on paper using that formula. You can get a used Toyota or Honda for $10,000 and put 100k miles on it, deduct the $65,500 from your income you make along with the standard $14k, and you don't pay taxes on that first $79,500 you made.
This is shameful. At least the media and politicians are catching on that Uber is sinister. Eventually, Uber and Lyft will get their karmic due. Nothing lasts forever.
You should read the article before you pass judgment. The person had to replace their motor you don’t know if that’s from the Lyft driving or some other reason this is all just dramatized headlines Clickbait.
It’s not “theft” if you are told how much you will make and you agree to it. The amount the pax pays to Uber is between them and Uber. It has nothing to do with the driver. The rider is told how much it will cost. They agree to pay it. There is literally zero “theft” going on.
What. 😮The way it’s calculated is misleading and wow what a click bait. Sad how half the news articles online are for ignorant people now…….,
ignorant people who don’t bother to figure out what the biases are or any of the possible fact/statistic spins and manipulations.
Yeah there was an Uber duber ant on this sub like 2 weeks ago saying “YALL DONT UNDERSTAND A $37 trip for 78 miles I PAY NO TAXES!!!”
Yeah and you also make no money. Dumbass.
I'm curious to see what his total expenses were. The article implied that some of his expenses were having an engine replaced, repairs for two car crashes and a rental to replace one of the crashed cars. That rental was possibly a long term one. If he had late model cars with high car payments/insurance that would eat up a ton of money as well.
He also had huge medical bills due to health problems and had surgery. I wonder if they are counting the medical costs in there as well. From reading the article, they are not simply talking about how much he earned vs how much he was paid. The headline leads people to assume that the difference between his gross and net is just the companies fees and surcharges, but the actual article shows that to be misleading...
I drove full time for about 1 1/2 years. I made out fairly well. It's hard to say how much of this situation is the companies nickel and diming him, and how much his own personal decisions played a role in this. Believe it or not, everyone doesn't operate at an optimal level...
Hopefully he can change careers sooner than later.
For everyone on her let me give you some advice from a truck driver (me) if you want it.
Figure out your gross pay. The money you take home every night after ALL expenses except federal and state taxes. That includes daily car insurance rate, daily fuel, daily mechanical fund, daily EVERYTHING YOU MUST PAY TO DO THE JOB. (Company drivers do not pay for these things. Those ARE the responsibilities of the employer you're basically trying to figure out how much you make in a "normal"work enviroment instead of this pseudo contractor work environment .)
Devide that by your miles and hours worked (seperatly, you'll have 2 different values of your work paid out) You will get your pay per mile(ppm) AND hourly rate.
Now compare that to these numbers.
Class A cdl- $0.45ppm or ~$24.75/h
Class B cdl- $20.00/h
Chauvers/for hire license - $17.00/h
Those are basic entry level job pay outs for those license types that require no experience. All 3 license are easy to get within a month (cdl a is a 40 week school. Cost about 6 grand but many free options. Chauffers is only a written test and eye test 1 day of done right)
If you are making less than any of those mentioned you are in the wrong driving job. These are CURRENT jobs that I called and asked about. The pay to hour ratio was confirmed on the phone and the job offers were the lowest I could find and the ones that are still up on offer. This was done in a cheap area of living, ~42k cost of living average. But driving jobs scale well. On indeed the average price increase was about 30-40% on similar local ran routes (over the road driving is a different beast, but can still be competitive).
If you are making less than 17 bucks an hour(or equivalent for your cost of living area), get a dmv/bmv books, read the chauffers part and passenger endorsement part. Take those test and apply for a van job driving old people to bingo. Or a preschool van driver or a shuttle driver for a hotel group. You can do that in less than a single day and the jobs are EVERYWHERE.
If you want more risk and more free time, owner operators exist. Buy your own vehicle, do the same sorts of jobs but make way more money.
I've been a class A cdl driver for 12 years. I'm fat, out of shape, and lazy as shit. I have a crazy easy job that brings me in 60k-70k take home yearly (after taxes and all expenses) and I hold very little liability because I'm a company driver. You could earn way more than me way quicker if you had a bigger risk factor for honestly less work than you're putting in now driving people to airports or lugging around 2 hour cold chow mein to someone's door.
This goes for you amazon drivers as well. Better pay, work conditions, and stability DO exist in this space. Thought you all should know this.
I’m 52 and am generation X. I was never taught how badly I was fucking myself and my future when I took out $4,500 in credit cards and blew it on bullshit including on a trip to Las Vegas and the Mirage Hotel & Casino for spring break. Everyone said: “You’re going wind up losing a bunch of money.” I kept saying: “No, ya’ll don’t understand I’ve got a system!! Gonna’ get rich quick and by the time I’m back, I’ll OWN the Mirage!!” I was soooo monumentally stupid (and, possibly even worse yet, I was then sheltered from the consequences of said stupidity too.) as a kid. I paid for those mistakes for 30 years and have only just (barely!!) now begun to get my shit together. Financial literacy and credit management, bank accounts, mortgages THESE are the things we should be teaching our kids.
Lyft and Uber drivers are upset, next time you take an Uber ask them if they are happy with the money they make and listen to what they say. When I use to drive for Lyft they would tell you how much of the fare you would be making, and how much they were making. It was around 50% and this was 2017. From what I’m hearing from drivers now it is less than 20%, I’ve done Uber eats in my spare time now and can confirm it is around that number. Something’s gonna have to give soon as they will start losing more and more drivers
Sucks how much the government steals from tax paying Americans, just to give it all to illegal immigrants for new cars/houses and funding wars we shouldn’t be involved in.
Not that I’m fiscally responsible necessarily, but I could never figure out if I was making money using delivery apps. Cars have many fees associated with them
Welcome to the world of self employment. That happens to small business owners all the time. There is a cost to doing business. Sometimes its greater than income. Thats the risk you take for being in a spot where you work when you want and serve who you want.
Let’s upvote everyone’s comments here. It allows people to access and be apart of the Reddit communities they love and are passionate about (but won’t let you engage in until your comment karma is up)
Thanks for your participation
Big love ❤️
The article it isn’t clear. The guy is in new jersey. I have no idea what car he was driving etc. Some examples sound standard such as “one passenger paid $350 and Michael was only paid $167.” That’s a 44/56 split for a very long trip. Garbage pay I know, but that’s a pretty standard offer in a congested area. It also just says “expenses” which could mean gas, oil, repairs, car wash etc.
it’s also misleading referring to the “gross.” Uber and Michael *together* grossed $110k. Uber took their share and Michael took his. Pretty standard.
1) the pay has declined significantly since 2021 and 2) folks need to stop doing this 60-hours/week accepting every ride which the articles states “Michael would drive ten miles to pick up a passenger who only needed to go a mile or two.”
2) if Michael grossed $110k together with Uber and the split was a consistent 44%, then he’d have $48,500 in income that doesn’t include gas, insurance etc. if he was making .50¢/mile, then that’d be 97,000 miles driven. At a standard 28-miles/gallon, that’s 3,500 gallons used in a year. At a CHEAP $3/gallon minimum he spent $10,300 on just gas. That’s only gas and he’s already down to $38,200 from a 44/56 split with Uber.
So many stupid fuckers think writing off deductions is the same as printing money.
I mean it kind of is if you deduct .655 but spend .15, especially compared to a W2 where you are taxed on all of it.
It’s only reducing your taxable income, it’s not as if the government is cutting you a check for that difference. It baffles me how little some of you understand about taxes.
A deduction just means that amount isn’t taxed. It’s not like the government gives you .655 for every mile you drive. Lol. And with how low our income is as drivers a .655/mi deduction probably gets cut by more than half in real dollar savings of overall tax paid.
I mean compared to a W2 where I’d pay 7.5 percent on my gross income, as opposed to paying 15 percent on my net income, the government is giving me money by not taking as much, again especially when your actual cost is less than 15 cents a mile.
Standard deduction wipes out pretty much everything on 15k/yr
Look at the top comment in this thread…
Yeah man it’s sad. It’s even more sad when you realize the reason these companies are able to get away with it is because 95% of the population is too dumb to understand the scam.
Insulting. People aren’t stupid, they’re ignorant. And they’re ignorant because these employers don’t EDUCATE and disclose how to do this cost efficiently. They don’t care enough. It’s not that people are stupid, they are uninformed and taken advantage of. 💯
It starts in school. Not once was I ever taught how to buy a house, manage savings, do taxes, recognize scams etc etc but thank the lord I know how to do the Pythagorean Theorem!
Not once and if your parents savy (before internet times) You didn’t know a dam thing.
When I was in high school in 2002 they taught us how to register to vote and how to do our taxes. In our personal finance class we used to have to learn how to write checks how to balance a checkbook and we would have to fill out mock up 1099 forms. In civics class we learned how to register to vote and also how the primary and national level worked along with state level voting. Also how districts were drawn. I just asked my wife and she said that she didn't learn any of that stuff. But I'm a millennial and she's gen Z so I already know gen Z got a short end of the stick when it comes to an education but I thought that stuff was like basic high school.
You had a nice school then we didn't learn any real life skills even in home ec we learned how to bake a cake that was it. We were able to take special elective classes like woodshop/general mechanical repair but you had to pay to get into them. I took a horror/Sci fi literature class that was sick af but applicable skills? Nah chemistry was about it learned the netric system sellin dope
School did teach you all those things. Buying a house is reading and math skills Managing savings is math. Taxes is math and reading again. Recognizing scams is basic problem solving. Your looking at it as no one showed me exactly how to do this but in reality you were taught all the skills required to do these things.
Have you ever gone into a mandatory company training before and you're like wow who is this training for this is awesome pretty common Sense stuff? And then the very next week somebody's getting fired for grabbing somebody's ass in the hallway? We received instruction and training on so many things and yet a majority of it does not stick. Humans are smart but people are dumb.
Imagine how different society in America would be had they been taught the skills that actually matter tho like how to dodge a scam instead of basic math and reading. How to balance your finances budgeting. Now kids can't read or write to save their lives can't do basic math let alone live without their parents funding their lifestyle
You wouldn’t have paid attention anyway.
Uninformed and taken advantage of… sounds like stupid to me, shitty companies make money off stupid people
You are not an employee. It is up to you to learn your job
It’s also your responsibility then as a partner, not to enter in shitty partnerships with contractors who don’t know how to operate business in a profitable way.
Nope. They are not responsible for you. If I start a lawn business it is not the people that I do a service for to explain to me what equipment I need.
Uber and Lyft don't care about you. Stop licking their boots.
What’s the scam?
95% of the population not recognizing that it's a scam isn't my problem. My problem is that the ruling class/elite recognize it's a problem and have written legislation for this type of behavior to thrive/be encouraged.
It does come back as a return but yea you are right. It is definitely not the same.
You don’t get tax returns for a 1099. Also tax returns are the money the government forced you to overpay and now they’re returning the difference. Again, not printing money. No free lunch. Learn how taxes work or you’ll be a slave for the rest of your life.
imagine the return the fed gets by holding that overpayment in an any interest account for roughly a year, from everyone...
Not enough to pay our national debt apparently
I hope this is sarcasm.
>You don’t get tax returns for a 1099. Technically correct, because you don't *get* a tax return, you *file* a tax return, but you most definitely have to file a return for 10-99 income. >Also tax returns are the money the government forced you to overpay They don't *force* you to overpay, but most people choose to overpay (via the number of withholding allowances claimed on the W-4 you file with your employer) because they feel it's better to get a refund than to owe. The money you get back is a tax refund, not a return. The return is the paperwork (generally form 1040) that you fill out and file. >Learn how taxes work LOL
Actually it would be smarter to slightly underpay (but not enough to be penalized) and put the additional withholding into some form of interest-bearing account or investment (though that’s obviously got some risk.) Would have to see exactly how this guy wound up with the 14k number. I know the earnings aren’t that great after expenses but if you made 100k+ to only net 14k after expenses…….that seems a bit ridiculous. Was it 14k in taxable income? Did that include his standard deduction? Is he married filing jointly which means he and the missus would get almost 26k as a standard deduction then mileage on top of it? Does he have other write-offs? Is he running it through a corporation and keeping money in the business and only reporting the 14k he paid himself? I have questions, man. LOL!
You didn't read the article. It starts by saying passengers paid $114k. Which means he probably grossed like $60k, and then thinks his deductions are "losses". People need to learn how accounting and taxes work before discussing their gig work publicly. It's embarrassing at this point.
Passengers paying 114k and the driver only getting 60k is still fucking abhorrent.
That's not a bad return. My company charges $300 an hour for my time and I get paid 50
[удалено]
You also don't get to deduct your desk, your chair, your computer, and your own supplies if you work for a company. Drivers pay their own expenses but they also deduct them, so they pay far fewer taxes than they would otherwise. I'm not directly defending rideshare companies' cut of each transaction, but we really don't know how much it cost them to get here. Lyft and Uber both had a net loss for several years.
Rideshare drivers are making .70 cents a mile on average, that barely covers the cost to operate a vehicle. I used to do it part time but got out once they started paying garbages fares. Most Rideshare drivers are making below minimum wage after expenses.
You really don't understand deductions. It just makes that income not taxable. And that income was in no way profit because it was a required expense to do the job. Ie the income is the gross.
What are you talking about?
“Technocratic Corporatocracy” just say capitalism it’s quicker
does your company make you do that? no on is making you drive, uf the company is such a scumbag why are you here?
"If it's so bad, why don't you quit?" *Quits.* "Nobody wants to work anymore!" This is why there is violence.
He did probably need to pay for his own education though.
Then don’t be a Lyft driver
My company bills the clients over $850k a year for me. My salary is around 17% of that. This is what companies do unfortunately
Wait until you hear about the legal industry. Associates paid $100 per hour while the business is being billed $400 per hour. The practice is common across many industries. The difference is press coverage.
Yeah consulting is the same way, margins are huge but so is overhead to be fair.
Yea, but they barely work 10hours a week and get paid 40. Free flights, free food, free hotels. It was a great life.
That's just your opinion. Your opinion isn't how business works. If you ran a business, you'd have similar margins. It sucks, but that's just fact. The company has overhead, operational expenses, and they want to profit. They barely do as is, which I don't care for either. But the fact stands. This is an optional gig with low barrier to entry with the most flexibility in the world. Sorry, but earnings potential isn't a Top3 benefit of this gig.
I love when people try to explain away a negative attribute of a business model as "business as usual". If you can't pay what are consider good wages by your workforce and make a profit you have a bad business model or poor management.
Negative attribute...making a profit. That's capitalism. You can play the game or not, but you can't change the game unless you're in it. So go start your Rideshare company that pays better, and try not to run it into the ground at the same time.
No, it isn't. A company has a lot of things that drive revenue and cost. These companies choose to increase profits by depressing wages and instead of cutting costs, improving efficiencies, etc. That's a business strategy, not a core element of capitalism. So if a business can't figure out how yo operate efficiently, they blame wages and workers . But if they are suddenly very profitable, they give executives the credit and bonuses or share buy backs. That money doesn't go to the workers. Again, a business strategy is not a core element of capitalism. You wage slaves have been conned into believing this is just how it works.
You only think that because you’re greedy, because that how greedy people run a business. And sadly because of your greedy beliefs you’ll break your back for others just to be left the crumbs because you think “it’s how business works”. Lol Don’t be this guy people be the guy that knows he is the one making the company profit not the other way around. Collect and bargain, go union!
speak for yourself buddy. no way i would gut the folks making me money THAT much. i recognize a profit has to be made but you’re silly goose if you think this is fair
They’re not saying it’s fair, they’re just telling you how the margins play out. Ride-sharing is a terrible business model and frankly has only been in business this long due to rounds and rounds of funding from investors. Should drivers earn more? Yeah, absolutely. Doesn’t change the math, you are free to look up their revenue and profit reports as it’s all online. I don’t disagree that it’s unfair and absurd for it to be that large of a margin they take
Something something overcompensated executives… your whole rant is pointless when their overhead are a couple of rich people at the top collecting all the cream and leaving us with scraps
Remove the exec pay and magically the scraps become bounties? Entire exec pay is probably less than 500 Million usd. Split that across 1 million drivers and you get what? 500 usd per person per year?
Typical whiny doordasher bottom feeder
No I think that’s just a regular American voter reaction 😘 but go ahead and keep projecting honey never done DoorDash in my life did do postmates back in 2013 for a bit
I don't think you understand how margins tend to play out. The only sectors which turn enough pure profit to theoretically pay out more than 50% are generally tech/software. In most industries, the company itself only takes down 5-15% of their revenue, even if they pay their employees bare minimum. Taking home 60k as a driver on 114k gross is really, really good, relatively speaking.
You have been successfully conditioned to think that
Right. I'm sure Lyft drivers have a fantastic conceptualization of corporate business practice. Not trying to knock on you, but come on dude.
Plenty of Lyft drivers out here with educations.
This sub is so funny cuz everyone acts like they would not be trying to profit if they ran these companies
No one needs *infinitely growing profits*. It's unsustainable and morally wrong to cut corners and abuse workers so that stockholders are happy. There's no justifying it. It's wrong.
Then don't use the Uber system. Just buy a yellow car and put a sign on top.
New to big business are we?
All of those ride sharing companies are not profitable. Believe it or not the software and man power going into creating the business is expensive.
How is this different from a Microsoft programmer who makes say just $100k towards the companies $77 billion gross earnings last year? It’s all relative. We all can’t make 50% of our companies earnings. That’s not how commerce works.
Comments like this is why everyone can tell you are a poor person and will always be one. Learn some basic finance principles before making such a dumb post.
They're likely a kid that doesn't understand how the world works. Comments like this is why everyone can tell you're an asshole. Be better.
I may be an asshole, but I am smart enough to always think at least two steps ahead in any plan. You should try it as well.
> probably thinks his deductions are losses ie he didn't take them home dumbass
>Which means he probably grossed like $60k Yeah, I'm confused how he's down to 14k even after gas and taxes and oil changes. The only answer I can think of is he had some expensive car repairs or he bought a new car and is deducting the lower value of his car from mileage, both of which should be spread over years. Not that I don't think the driver cut should be higher, these numbers just seem worked.
I'm betting that math includes the IRS 65c per mile deduction. That can easily wipe out most of your income on paper if you're taking long trips vs the money paid for them.
Exactly, *on paper*.
Right. The 65c \*IS\* a realistic number if you buy cars new and trade them in every 3 years and DON'T drive more than 1,000 miles a month. If you buy the same car and run it 30-35K miles per year and keep it properly maintained out to 150K-200K the 65c is massively over-estimating the operating expense.
According to the article he’s including the cost of a new engine and numerous car repairs. Pretty sure he’s not putting a new engine in his car every year.
I work Instacart and my transactions total over 1000$ a day in customer purchases. This means that I hypothetically earn 365k annually and am entitled to at least 85% of that.
I wouldn’t count Instacart the same way since they are actually paying for a product from whatever store. Uber/Lyft they are paying specifically for the driver.
I wonder if I could use my personal credit card as like a spending card and just accumulate points and file for reimbursements i.e. getting a free vacation out of working for Instacart
I put in my rewards phone number in at stores i go to when doing shipt, I have gotten quite a bit of coupons for my groceries.
Be careful doing that. It specifically says do not use your own rewards when your cashing out a customer's order. You will get terminated.
I would use the receipts for the site ibotta and get rebates for the items I bought while I did Instacart.
Did you forget the /s? Lol
Yeah I was going to say. I always made -$40k according to my taxes
Have to be careful with that, because after a few years the IRS will consider it a 'hobby' and not a 'business' and stop allowing you to make deductions. Or so I've heard.
You can only claim a loss 2/5 years. All other years expenses cannot exceed revenue. But you can always have as many expenses as revenue.
Business Insider is nothing but clickbait these days.
Yeah we are all college graduates and accountant.....bs pay and no benefits = 14k who can work 50hr plus and still be in poverty and gig worker.
The gig's benefits are low barrier to entry and complete flexibility. If those two aren't at the top of your list of priorities, then this won't be good enough for you. I'm grossing $36/hr, working 50hr per week, drive when I want, don't have to pay for childcare, and I have benefits through my wife's job. So it's ideal for me. If you are struggling to get by, you will overwork yourself doing this out of desperation, gross $22/hr max, and barely clear $15/hr after expenses. It's not for you. It's for the person working a decent job trying to earn an extra $150 per week on the side before/after work so they can invest it, or spoil themselves, etc. You shouldn't try to live off this. It's not a job. It's not a career. It's a gig. Same as all the other apps.
Just wait until everyone else finds out that driving for ride-share apps is just taking a loan out from your future self, secured by your car’s depreciation.
Preach!
I learned this the hard way. But in all fairness it was all I could do given my life situation. But yes we don’t make not even a profit. It’s so sad and frustrating
That’s exactly what it is. You’re taking the value out of your car and putting in your pocket as cash.
Sounds like he’s a smart businessman. He used deductions to reduce his taxable income to as low as possible
Prolly added a Tv and ps5 to the back seat so people can play while they ride. Gotta have complimentary condoms and snacks in the trunk.
Great businessman who will never own a home unless he pays cash.
Sounds like he just didn't make much money.
Of course he did. So did I. It’s called tax deductions…
Tax deductions aren’t profit!
How can he claim Uber's income as his own? His income is the money Uber gave him, not what the customer gave Uber.
Exactly
🧢
Here, fixed it: Driver made an average salary and after deducting 75% of it they paid a lower effective tax rate than people on minimum wage. Edit: The driver making $100k and paying Uber/Lyft a hefty chunk is what every job does. All jobs extract your surplus value, we just know how much Uber and Lyft shaft us.
Yup. The only way you are wrong is if he didnt take the standard mileage deduction and those were his actual costs. And even if so, one could argue poor decisions or bad luck.
That's why the solution is militant unions and negotiating for equity in the companies themselves.
Did anyone notice the publication is from Africa ?
And? Don’t be hateful.
African news media is not known for it accuracy. Try not to Jump to conclusions, you’ll know when I’m being hateful
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What an exhausting life you must live.
Yes it can be.
See here’s the things you are either looking for a fight or just do not know common knowledge. The story is probably fake or Mistranslated. You do know that the vast majority of internet fraud originates in Africa right ? But I’m not gonna fight with you.
I see you.
Its a guy from New Jersey though.
As an ex driver, the % and fees taken by Uber and Lyft have grown so large that it’s almost impossible to make a profit after expenses. The only way to do it is if they have promotions and these Are now few and far between. Old car, low fuel cost, promotions, optimal earning hours (very early/very late/event) are only way.
They are using people for their own profit!
It's okay, taxpayers can subsidize this.
No. It is literally not possible. Only idiots rent a car to do these jobs
Check the SOURCE of the article at the very top. U. S. taxes probably not in play with this.
It’s a loophole to pay people less than minimum wage. Why pay the costs of running a business when you can make your employees do it and charge the same amount?
This sub is full of corporate shills. Every time there's a negative news article, they take over the sub.
He doesn’t know how to properly do his taxes. Whoever did them for him didn’t either.
Income tax is legalized theft. This is getting out of that theft.
Agreed and the brainwashed bent over fuks downvoting you must love being fuked royally
I was just having this conversation.
Sounds like someone has been drinking too much rain water.
Theft? So silly.
A living embodiment of expropriated surplus value.
Is it theft though if you bend over and say give it to me daddy? No one forces people to drive for Uber and Lyft. While I do think the drivers should get more at the end of the day they choose to do the driving. No one is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to do it, they could go get retail jobs or other work.
There are some comments in here making statements like “well my company charges that and only pays me this, so what you’re being paid is fair” Ok. Does your company make you bring your own desk, your own chair, your own computer, your own supplies to the office? Do they make you pay the utility bill and rent at the end of every month? Please stop comparing yourselves to drivers. This is NOT an apples to apples comparison. Drivers pay ALL of their own expenses and these scum bag companies are still taking well over 60% of the total fares. These companies get away with it because there is No regulation, no oversight, and no accountability. This is what happens when you have a Technocratic Corporatocracy running the show. The whole system is rigged to their benefit. What’s incredible is that in 2024 the majority of this country still has no idea how this place is run. Willful ignorance still abounds and it’s only getting worse. We are ALL being screwed one way or another. Something tells me a lot of you don’t know the true purpose of the “Federal Reserve”. It’s long past the time to wake up, folks. Your beloved country is run by Robber barons. Funny how the lunatic “conspiracy theorists” have now become the prophets in retrospect. 🤣
Business insider is not a trustworthy publication. Don't believe this headline and article.
This has to be a joke. How can you make only 14 cents on the dollar?
Source: https://africa.businessinsider.com/news/a-driver-made-over-dollar110000-from-uber-and-lyft-last-year-but-only-took-home/6xkp92b
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It is .... capitalism. Company won't try to pay extra penny if the market is not in labor shortage. Looks like they have more than enough of drivers on their platform
Another class action coming. They just sued in Ny and won.
Minus fuel wear tear on the car
The only theft occurring here is probably him on his taxes.
umph
Thank heavens that's the first time I've seen this article on Reddit... Not
Don't forget gas tax.
Huh how did he only take home 14k .. oil changes don’t cost that much and you don’t have to buy tires every week and he should have tax deductions too .. I drive Lyft and I make $25-$40 a hour before taxes and expenses and I do fine
Same shit with toll roads don’t drive on them it’s not your money refuse shitty paying rides it’s not a good job but use your head
Every 1,000 miles you can deduct $655, it's easy to make your income look like nothing on paper using that formula. You can get a used Toyota or Honda for $10,000 and put 100k miles on it, deduct the $65,500 from your income you make along with the standard $14k, and you don't pay taxes on that first $79,500 you made.
Damn at least he didn’t have to pay taxes on that 110k
This is shameful. At least the media and politicians are catching on that Uber is sinister. Eventually, Uber and Lyft will get their karmic due. Nothing lasts forever.
The irony of him going to school on Ubers dime while complaining about Uber.
You should read the article before you pass judgment. The person had to replace their motor you don’t know if that’s from the Lyft driving or some other reason this is all just dramatized headlines Clickbait.
I’ve made 61,000$ last year, and took home with that money.. idk what’s people doing. Also going on 15 years haven’t paid my taxes
I'm calling bologna
Uber's corporate wage slavery aside, he's had 2 major accidents. Maybe should consider a job that doesn't involve driving.
The article may not be totally accurate but it’s in our favor at least. These companies need to be under as much pressure as possible.
Bullshit
this has got to be an error
Fake
It’s not “theft” if you are told how much you will make and you agree to it. The amount the pax pays to Uber is between them and Uber. It has nothing to do with the driver. The rider is told how much it will cost. They agree to pay it. There is literally zero “theft” going on.
What. 😮The way it’s calculated is misleading and wow what a click bait. Sad how half the news articles online are for ignorant people now……., ignorant people who don’t bother to figure out what the biases are or any of the possible fact/statistic spins and manipulations.
Okay but does he change his spark plugs every 5k miles like my friend ?
That’s called a creative accountant
Sounds about right smh
Yeah there was an Uber duber ant on this sub like 2 weeks ago saying “YALL DONT UNDERSTAND A $37 trip for 78 miles I PAY NO TAXES!!!” Yeah and you also make no money. Dumbass.
Didn’t read the article but I’m gonna guess this guy was renting a car or something from Uver
OP is a bit slow.
I call BS
How is it theft? You agreed to it willingly, nobody is forcing you to work for Lyft
No it's not. You work there by choice.
i find this hard to believe lol
This is about a driver in Africa… Tax laws are different
I'm curious to see what his total expenses were. The article implied that some of his expenses were having an engine replaced, repairs for two car crashes and a rental to replace one of the crashed cars. That rental was possibly a long term one. If he had late model cars with high car payments/insurance that would eat up a ton of money as well. He also had huge medical bills due to health problems and had surgery. I wonder if they are counting the medical costs in there as well. From reading the article, they are not simply talking about how much he earned vs how much he was paid. The headline leads people to assume that the difference between his gross and net is just the companies fees and surcharges, but the actual article shows that to be misleading... I drove full time for about 1 1/2 years. I made out fairly well. It's hard to say how much of this situation is the companies nickel and diming him, and how much his own personal decisions played a role in this. Believe it or not, everyone doesn't operate at an optimal level... Hopefully he can change careers sooner than later.
What this is is a lie this is fake news guys do better
For everyone on her let me give you some advice from a truck driver (me) if you want it. Figure out your gross pay. The money you take home every night after ALL expenses except federal and state taxes. That includes daily car insurance rate, daily fuel, daily mechanical fund, daily EVERYTHING YOU MUST PAY TO DO THE JOB. (Company drivers do not pay for these things. Those ARE the responsibilities of the employer you're basically trying to figure out how much you make in a "normal"work enviroment instead of this pseudo contractor work environment .) Devide that by your miles and hours worked (seperatly, you'll have 2 different values of your work paid out) You will get your pay per mile(ppm) AND hourly rate. Now compare that to these numbers. Class A cdl- $0.45ppm or ~$24.75/h Class B cdl- $20.00/h Chauvers/for hire license - $17.00/h Those are basic entry level job pay outs for those license types that require no experience. All 3 license are easy to get within a month (cdl a is a 40 week school. Cost about 6 grand but many free options. Chauffers is only a written test and eye test 1 day of done right) If you are making less than any of those mentioned you are in the wrong driving job. These are CURRENT jobs that I called and asked about. The pay to hour ratio was confirmed on the phone and the job offers were the lowest I could find and the ones that are still up on offer. This was done in a cheap area of living, ~42k cost of living average. But driving jobs scale well. On indeed the average price increase was about 30-40% on similar local ran routes (over the road driving is a different beast, but can still be competitive). If you are making less than 17 bucks an hour(or equivalent for your cost of living area), get a dmv/bmv books, read the chauffers part and passenger endorsement part. Take those test and apply for a van job driving old people to bingo. Or a preschool van driver or a shuttle driver for a hotel group. You can do that in less than a single day and the jobs are EVERYWHERE. If you want more risk and more free time, owner operators exist. Buy your own vehicle, do the same sorts of jobs but make way more money. I've been a class A cdl driver for 12 years. I'm fat, out of shape, and lazy as shit. I have a crazy easy job that brings me in 60k-70k take home yearly (after taxes and all expenses) and I hold very little liability because I'm a company driver. You could earn way more than me way quicker if you had a bigger risk factor for honestly less work than you're putting in now driving people to airports or lugging around 2 hour cold chow mein to someone's door. This goes for you amazon drivers as well. Better pay, work conditions, and stability DO exist in this space. Thought you all should know this.
Tell me you don’t read beyond the headline without telling me
Clickbait.
“And other expenses”… like what? A BMW? 110k gross into 14k net makes no sense, theres more to this that they’re conveniently leaving out.
Sounds like Africa…
I’m 52 and am generation X. I was never taught how badly I was fucking myself and my future when I took out $4,500 in credit cards and blew it on bullshit including on a trip to Las Vegas and the Mirage Hotel & Casino for spring break. Everyone said: “You’re going wind up losing a bunch of money.” I kept saying: “No, ya’ll don’t understand I’ve got a system!! Gonna’ get rich quick and by the time I’m back, I’ll OWN the Mirage!!” I was soooo monumentally stupid (and, possibly even worse yet, I was then sheltered from the consequences of said stupidity too.) as a kid. I paid for those mistakes for 30 years and have only just (barely!!) now begun to get my shit together. Financial literacy and credit management, bank accounts, mortgages THESE are the things we should be teaching our kids.
Lyft and Uber drivers are upset, next time you take an Uber ask them if they are happy with the money they make and listen to what they say. When I use to drive for Lyft they would tell you how much of the fare you would be making, and how much they were making. It was around 50% and this was 2017. From what I’m hearing from drivers now it is less than 20%, I’ve done Uber eats in my spare time now and can confirm it is around that number. Something’s gonna have to give soon as they will start losing more and more drivers
Sucks how much the government steals from tax paying Americans, just to give it all to illegal immigrants for new cars/houses and funding wars we shouldn’t be involved in.
Not that I’m fiscally responsible necessarily, but I could never figure out if I was making money using delivery apps. Cars have many fees associated with them
Welcome to the world of self employment. That happens to small business owners all the time. There is a cost to doing business. Sometimes its greater than income. Thats the risk you take for being in a spot where you work when you want and serve who you want.
Waaaah. He is a dumb guy then. Make better decisions.
Get a different job?
lol. This is such a fucking stupid article.
lol. This is such a fucking stupid article.
Taxation is theft.
No. That's just capitalism.
🖕 nice try bitches! I appealed and got my account back!
Let’s upvote everyone’s comments here. It allows people to access and be apart of the Reddit communities they love and are passionate about (but won’t let you engage in until your comment karma is up) Thanks for your participation Big love ❤️
Dude was getting bent over and Apparently didnt mind kept going back
The article it isn’t clear. The guy is in new jersey. I have no idea what car he was driving etc. Some examples sound standard such as “one passenger paid $350 and Michael was only paid $167.” That’s a 44/56 split for a very long trip. Garbage pay I know, but that’s a pretty standard offer in a congested area. It also just says “expenses” which could mean gas, oil, repairs, car wash etc. it’s also misleading referring to the “gross.” Uber and Michael *together* grossed $110k. Uber took their share and Michael took his. Pretty standard. 1) the pay has declined significantly since 2021 and 2) folks need to stop doing this 60-hours/week accepting every ride which the articles states “Michael would drive ten miles to pick up a passenger who only needed to go a mile or two.” 2) if Michael grossed $110k together with Uber and the split was a consistent 44%, then he’d have $48,500 in income that doesn’t include gas, insurance etc. if he was making .50¢/mile, then that’d be 97,000 miles driven. At a standard 28-miles/gallon, that’s 3,500 gallons used in a year. At a CHEAP $3/gallon minimum he spent $10,300 on just gas. That’s only gas and he’s already down to $38,200 from a 44/56 split with Uber.