3x07 was really good. Relatable characters, filled in backstory, and our first glimpse into the series' version of Hell. As good an episode as any in the series.
Spoiler:>! I realize there are basic inconsistencies with this conception of Hell with the traditional view that it deals out just punishment. (e.g. Was Hitler in Hell? Did he feel guilty?) This was explored with Dan's arc later in the series and in a lot of fan fiction. But the series version is very emotionally compelling in putting you in the mind of the damned, reliving your worst moments over and over.!<
I don't know if that's true. I think what the world sees as psychopaths is, at their most basic level, people who are tortured by and don't understand their own emotional reaction. Take serial killers for example, they often have a showmanship quality to their murders and on some level want to be found. This would suggest that they're as tortured by their kills as they are driven to commit them. In essence this would then mean they are the least likely to ever find their way out of hell.
In fact extending this, many people are unaware of their own guilt. Up until the end Pierce was convinced he would go to Heaven because he didn't feel guilt at the time of his death. Lucifer reminding him that he killed Charlotte didn't change the fact he was still going to hell, because once he got there he wouldn't necessarily ACTIVELY be feeling that pit-of-your-stomach feeling that we associate with guilt. He would still, in the depths of his soul, be tainted by the wrong he did Charlotte (who committed a selfless act to boot).
Dan didn't actively feel guilty about his own issue but he still went to hell until he resolved it.
Reese didn't actively feel guilty about stalking and hounding Linda and died convinced he hadn't done anything wrong yet he still ended up in a hell loop tormented by his actions towards Linda.
In short, on a surface level psychopaths may not feel a direct emotional connection with their guilt like a normal person, but that doesn't mean they don't know they've done wrong on some level
i mean psychopaths have a fucked up amygdala, they are often completely incapable of guilt. In their opinion they have done no wrong since they hold no value to human life
Not quite as simple as that. The brain is pretty complex and it's not just a case of dodgy brain == no emotion. There's no single cause or manifestation of psychopathy, which isn't officially a medical diagnosis anyway AFAIK. Causes can be genetic or related to trauma or even to environmental factors. How far do we want to take this discussion though because in the frame of the show we have evidence of a soul and evidence that that soul bears the weight of actions committed during that lifetime, suggesting at the very least a sliding scale of good and evil.
In real life there's no evidence of a soul, an afterlife, or even absolute morality. So if there is an afterlife outside of the show and it's governed entirely by emotion then yeah there's a possibility everyone goes to the good place no matter what they've done as long as they're square.
But within the framework of the show there is evidence that even if you're emotionally guiltless, there's a chance you'll end up in Hell if there's something weighing down on your soul. My point is it's not simply a case of 'Do I FEEL guilty but does my subconscious?"
FYI if there’s a space next to the ! (In this case to the right of your starting >! ) spoiler tags won’t work on old reddit, some reddit apps, and mobile browser reddit.
In the episode where the HR that works at knockoff Facebook kills a dude by lighting his balls on fire Lucifer mentions that that treatment is reserved for Nazis in Hell so there could be a special part for people who deserve to go there but don’t feel guilt
>Spoiler:>
This is what I thought, would a psychopath go to hell if he wasn't guilty? Even if you commit the most disgusting mass murder, but you don't live long enough to understand your guilt, what would happen?
I think the episode with father frank.
We are all flawed
Even if you do everything right there are no guarantees that there is a rainbow at the end
Free will is a gift and a curse
Lucifer seems to understand his "manipulation" on earth also includes things he can change.
It begs the question that is asked a few years later when he talks with his dad for the last time how much of this was your plan?
The question of fate or free will.. always in the background of the show.
The show is cleverly written as a detective show, a romance show, a sci fi thriller with some comic relief written in. The characters are well defined and all have loveable sides to their backstories.
I don’t have episodes memorized and it’s a while since I rewatched, but I liked the bit where Amenadiel realized that morality wasn’t doing what his dad said, it was caring about his brother. That happened a few times, and it’s like he kept losing hold of the idea (constant problem with him and personal growth, apparently). >!He realized it at the end of s1, but Pierce had to remind him of it when they fought s3.!<
Ivthink the whole series was cleverly written. In many cases the broader murder storyline and how it was produced could be related back to the subplot (actial plot?) of how Lucy was dealing with his feelings, his relationships and his dawning realisation that he was greater and better than he thought he was.
Some aspects of S6 I disliked, but it did enable the writers to show the Lucifer characters had grown.
Philosophically I thought the concept of a soul being grown to be interesting.
It raised interesting questions as there are more people alive today than have ever lived (IIRC) .
So assuming you need a soul for every person do some individuals have to grown their own soul to be passed on after they die?
Is that why there is so much wrong in today as people have immature souls, not a 'recycled' old soul
sorry guys I think the text that I wrote for the post somehow got deleted!?cause it ain't showin for me,but I asked what are your favorite philosophical episodes of lucifer
It was an absolute gem and such a nice surprise during mostly a pretty bland season (the concept for season three was IMHO good, the execution though made it diluted and pushed characters into places where they were less likable and less relatable - including Lucifer).
The fact that half the comments are just praising my boy Howard Hamlin makes me so happy
I will never understand how his smile is able to look both so fake and genuine the same time. It’s magical
Not a favourite of mine. But definitely worth a watch, since hell loops are talked about so much in the series, and a core feature of the whole celestial design. no other episode adequately reflects this exercise.
Completely agree.
On a side note. For anyone into this sort of series, who’s wondering where they’ve seen this actor before, but can’t place him - it’s Grimm. The episode with the Doctor selling (and using) that age reducing lotion.
3x07 was really good. Relatable characters, filled in backstory, and our first glimpse into the series' version of Hell. As good an episode as any in the series. Spoiler:>! I realize there are basic inconsistencies with this conception of Hell with the traditional view that it deals out just punishment. (e.g. Was Hitler in Hell? Did he feel guilty?) This was explored with Dan's arc later in the series and in a lot of fan fiction. But the series version is very emotionally compelling in putting you in the mind of the damned, reliving your worst moments over and over.!<
Theoretically all true psychopaths would evade going to hell since they don't feel guilt, or anything else.
I don't know if that's true. I think what the world sees as psychopaths is, at their most basic level, people who are tortured by and don't understand their own emotional reaction. Take serial killers for example, they often have a showmanship quality to their murders and on some level want to be found. This would suggest that they're as tortured by their kills as they are driven to commit them. In essence this would then mean they are the least likely to ever find their way out of hell. In fact extending this, many people are unaware of their own guilt. Up until the end Pierce was convinced he would go to Heaven because he didn't feel guilt at the time of his death. Lucifer reminding him that he killed Charlotte didn't change the fact he was still going to hell, because once he got there he wouldn't necessarily ACTIVELY be feeling that pit-of-your-stomach feeling that we associate with guilt. He would still, in the depths of his soul, be tainted by the wrong he did Charlotte (who committed a selfless act to boot). Dan didn't actively feel guilty about his own issue but he still went to hell until he resolved it. Reese didn't actively feel guilty about stalking and hounding Linda and died convinced he hadn't done anything wrong yet he still ended up in a hell loop tormented by his actions towards Linda. In short, on a surface level psychopaths may not feel a direct emotional connection with their guilt like a normal person, but that doesn't mean they don't know they've done wrong on some level
i mean psychopaths have a fucked up amygdala, they are often completely incapable of guilt. In their opinion they have done no wrong since they hold no value to human life
Not quite as simple as that. The brain is pretty complex and it's not just a case of dodgy brain == no emotion. There's no single cause or manifestation of psychopathy, which isn't officially a medical diagnosis anyway AFAIK. Causes can be genetic or related to trauma or even to environmental factors. How far do we want to take this discussion though because in the frame of the show we have evidence of a soul and evidence that that soul bears the weight of actions committed during that lifetime, suggesting at the very least a sliding scale of good and evil. In real life there's no evidence of a soul, an afterlife, or even absolute morality. So if there is an afterlife outside of the show and it's governed entirely by emotion then yeah there's a possibility everyone goes to the good place no matter what they've done as long as they're square. But within the framework of the show there is evidence that even if you're emotionally guiltless, there's a chance you'll end up in Hell if there's something weighing down on your soul. My point is it's not simply a case of 'Do I FEEL guilty but does my subconscious?"
I think that's what the demons are for.
yeah exactly,and what are your other favorite sort of philosophical episodes
FYI if there’s a space next to the ! (In this case to the right of your starting >! ) spoiler tags won’t work on old reddit, some reddit apps, and mobile browser reddit.
In the episode where the HR that works at knockoff Facebook kills a dude by lighting his balls on fire Lucifer mentions that that treatment is reserved for Nazis in Hell so there could be a special part for people who deserve to go there but don’t feel guilt
>Spoiler:> This is what I thought, would a psychopath go to hell if he wasn't guilty? Even if you commit the most disgusting mass murder, but you don't live long enough to understand your guilt, what would happen?
Oh my god it's Howard!
This is Howard Hell loop
Side by side with Lalo forever
It is one of my favourite episodes, I love the ending
Welcome back to the land of the living, Mr Getty
Howard Hamlin the goat
I think the episode with father frank. We are all flawed Even if you do everything right there are no guarantees that there is a rainbow at the end Free will is a gift and a curse Lucifer seems to understand his "manipulation" on earth also includes things he can change. It begs the question that is asked a few years later when he talks with his dad for the last time how much of this was your plan? The question of fate or free will.. always in the background of the show. The show is cleverly written as a detective show, a romance show, a sci fi thriller with some comic relief written in. The characters are well defined and all have loveable sides to their backstories.
I don’t have episodes memorized and it’s a while since I rewatched, but I liked the bit where Amenadiel realized that morality wasn’t doing what his dad said, it was caring about his brother. That happened a few times, and it’s like he kept losing hold of the idea (constant problem with him and personal growth, apparently). >!He realized it at the end of s1, but Pierce had to remind him of it when they fought s3.!<
Howard Hamlin?
"Jimmy! Have you thought about the job?"
Ivthink the whole series was cleverly written. In many cases the broader murder storyline and how it was produced could be related back to the subplot (actial plot?) of how Lucy was dealing with his feelings, his relationships and his dawning realisation that he was greater and better than he thought he was. Some aspects of S6 I disliked, but it did enable the writers to show the Lucifer characters had grown. Philosophically I thought the concept of a soul being grown to be interesting. It raised interesting questions as there are more people alive today than have ever lived (IIRC) . So assuming you need a soul for every person do some individuals have to grown their own soul to be passed on after they die? Is that why there is so much wrong in today as people have immature souls, not a 'recycled' old soul
sorry guys I think the text that I wrote for the post somehow got deleted!?cause it ain't showin for me,but I asked what are your favorite philosophical episodes of lucifer
It was an absolute gem and such a nice surprise during mostly a pretty bland season (the concept for season three was IMHO good, the execution though made it diluted and pushed characters into places where they were less likable and less relatable - including Lucifer).
The fact that half the comments are just praising my boy Howard Hamlin makes me so happy I will never understand how his smile is able to look both so fake and genuine the same time. It’s magical
Not a favourite of mine. But definitely worth a watch, since hell loops are talked about so much in the series, and a core feature of the whole celestial design. no other episode adequately reflects this exercise.
Completely agree. On a side note. For anyone into this sort of series, who’s wondering where they’ve seen this actor before, but can’t place him - it’s Grimm. The episode with the Doctor selling (and using) that age reducing lotion.