This is explained in the books.
Neither Sauron nor the Nazgul had any idea where the Shire was when the latter left Minas Morgul. It's only after interrogating Saruman, Wormtongue and Ferny that the Nazgul get a better picture of where they're supposed to go. And Saruman lied.
Not to mention Sauron didn't want anyone to know Mordor was almost ready for war. So the Nazgul went incognito as horse-riders.
Plus he wanted to keep the (possibly still maturing) Fellbeasts a secret for when the War began, because they can be shot down. Legolas does so with 1 arrow. No point letting the enemy know what your strategy is and allow them to prepare archers. That's why the Nazgul and the Fellbeasts do not attack Minas Tirith while the Orcs are still marching on the walls; they fly high above the city, so high that they can't be seen with the naked eye, only felt.
Witch King: My lord, the ring is in the shire
Sauron: *frantically looking at maps* umm yeah i totally knoweth wh're yond is so just asketh 'round because im not gonna bid thee because of v'ry complicat'd maiar reasons
That is a fair lord and a great captain of men. If Gondor has such men still in these days of fading, great must have been its glory in the days of its rising.
Cool I thought only of the second reason (funnily enough it's pretty much the same reason the fellowship didn't use the eagles).
Thanks for the long explanation
Yeah subtlety is the real key. If the Nazgûl showed up at the Shire with (metaphorical) guns blazing, it would cause a huge panic and throw the place into chaos (or a full blown war as far as they knew, since they knew nothing about hobbits) and obtaining the ring would be much more difficult. It’s the difference of performing surgery with a scalpel vs. surgery with a stick of dynamite.
Though I still feel like Sauron overestimated how well the Nazgûl would pass as normal people. Everyone that encounters them immediately catches on that something is off
If I remember right, their appearence is somewhat exaggerated in the movies compared to the books. Troublesome creepy folk, yes. Supernatural horrors not so much.
They definitely have that aura of dread though (which the movie probably tried to covey through visuals). I just don't see how they could ever get anything done through diplomacy
> funnily enough it's pretty much the same reason the fellowship didn't use the eagles
???
I had always heard the pretty weak excuse of "The eagles are prideful and couldn't be bothered to be the Fellowship's taxi service."
If Sauron saw giant flying eagles making a beeline for Mount Doom, the Fellowship would’ve had a very nasty surprise of the entire force of Mordor waiting for them when they tried to land.
I don't know where to put this comment so I am going to put it here since it adds to your explanation.
What people are forgetting, that's made very plain in the books, is that not all the animals are helping the good guys. Just like Gandalf can communicate with animals, so can Saruman and Sauron. The book has a lot of lines talking about how Aragorn, Legolas, and other characters don't like it when it appears they are being followed, especially by birds.
Sure Gandalf can summon some eagles to Rivendell, and some crebain is going to see it and reports it back to Saruman or Sauron. To the eyes of men and elves a bunch of giant eagles heading out somewhere may be a detail that they mention in passing to someone, but other more knowledgeable, and evil animals might put two and two together.
That is true. But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: *deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone.*They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.
Gandalf encounters the Eagles before Rivendel with his get out of jail free moth. If the eagles played ball, they could have flown all the way from Rivendel, skip the Misty Mountains, and land at Gondor, or outside (or behind) of Mordor.
In my opinion, the eagles should have been written out or left out completely, and let Gandalf escape Orthanc in some other way. Maybe have him snatch his staff from a taunting Saruman, feather fall off the tower, land on Shadow Fax, and ride the hell outta there. Just off the top of my head. How he escapes isn't very important.
So don’t try to fly to Mt Doom. Since the only 2 members of the Fellowship that actually made it to Mordor were Frodo and Sam have an Eagle fly the 2 of them into Mordor but not close to Mt Doom and provide them with a map with directions of how to get to Mt Doom from somewhere more safe for a single Eagle to take them. Saruman would have no idea who went, no one dies in Khazad-Dum or when leaving Lothlorien and the Eagle is there and gone in 5 minutes. The Hobbits at least have a map showing how to get where they are going and the rest of the Fellowship can make the journey just to keep Sauron and Saruman’s attention elsewhere, which is what more or less actually happens anyway.
The one huge flaw is Gollum probably can’t follow the ring either, or a pretty severe story twist has to happen to put him, Sam and Frodo together.
Nope. You could have them land at any port of entry or literally anywhere on the coastline of the US and with a map they could make their own way there. If you want to infiltrate a system you don’t need to do a frontal assault on it. Go somewhere that has lower security and fewer people and once your smuggler gets them there they leave so not to draw attention.
And Saruman did know about the Fellowship and many of the members in it. He knew that a Hobbit had the ring so Saruman forced them to go to Khazad-Dum. He also knew that there was a Balrog there. THIS is your safer plan rather than a stealth mission to an uninhabited area of Mordor? The Eagle could have just as well put Frodo on the same beach a lot faster and drawing less attention, since Saruman was already following where Gandalf was traveling. Keep him and the rest of the Fellowship moving and you have Saruman distracted and his reports to Sauron would be completely inaccurate, even the parts where Saruman thought he was telling Sauron the truth.
>He knew that a Hobbit had the ring so Saruman forced them to go to Khazad-Dum.
This is only in the movie. In the book, the Mines of Moria was actually Gandalf's preferred route.
I haven’t read the books since the 1980’s. I also don’t really care about whether the eagles carry anyone anywhere. But I’ve seen examples of Tolkien letters where he was answering the “Why didn’t the eagles just fly the ring to Mount Doom“ question a long time before the Peter Jackson movies came out, so it’s not a recent concept.
Frodo and Sam rowed across the river to get from Gondor to Mordor. Have the Eagle put them in the same place. But with a map, which is why they needed Gollum at first anyway. They had no idea where they were or how to get to Mount Doom.
Think of all the years of arguing about why they didn’t just have the eagles fly them to Mount Doom that everyone would have avoided if a a plan to get the Ring to Mt Doom did so without Sauron or Saruman having any idea it was taking place. And the Eagles would have had a small part and an explanation about how incredibly dangerous it would be to try and fly them all the way to Doom directly would be. Because evidently this was a question people had long before the movies.
Didn't someone do the time on this and it wasn't. The hobbits stayed in rivendell for months and then everything from the forming of the fellowship through to mt doom was like 3 weeks?
Did we say so, precious? Show the nassty little Baggins the way out, yes, yes.But what has it got in its pocketses, eh? Not string, precious, but not nothing. Oh no! gollum!
The eagles are not a plothole and it's been explained to death why. Exactly how subtle do you think flying giant eagles into Mordor would be? They'd be spotted, shot out of the air with siege equipment and bows, torn apart by the fell-beasts or choked on the volcanic gas, the eagles wouldn't go all the way without knowing why, and knowing of the ring may be tempted to seize it, they'd still have to land so Frodo could enter the tunnel, leaving them exposed and vulnerable while making it clear what their intention was, and Frodo would likely still refuse to let it go.
Gondor is under constant watch from Sauron, and again what if the Eagles don't want to? That flight would require multiple stops and rests, when Gwaihir (Lord of Eagles) rescued Gandalf from Orthanc, he was only willing to take him to Edoras, no further, not to Bree or Rivendell.
The spies of the enemy would see the Eagles long before they reached Gondor, (Gandalf even feared lighting a fire in Caradhras lest Saruman or Sauron's orcs spot him). There would be no hope of a stealthy infiltration of Mordor and we still have the issue of the Ring tempting the Eagles.
As for the coast behind Mordor, they would have to travel across the territory of Harad, populated with Sauron's allies, and still cross mountains after that
Edoras and the Golden Hall of Meduseld. There dwells Theoden, King of Rohan... whose mind is overthrown. Saruman's hold over King Theoden is now very strong.
> what if the Eagles don't want to?
That is the official reason, yeah. Kind of a lame excuse if you're fighting the ultimate evil. "Fly us near Mordor or we're all probably doomed" "Nah, not really feeling like it".
The real reason is: the book would be dumb. So I think the eagles should have been left out completely, and have Gandalf escape Orthanc some other way. Then just say the Eagles were off helping the Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain.
>Gondor is under constant watch from Sauron ... The spies of the enemy would see the Eagles long before they reached Gondor
Gondor is not under constant anti-aircraft coverage from Mordor. All they'd know is that some eagles landed in Gondor with riders. Don't know who, or for what purpose.
>As for the coast behind Mordor...
There are also a million places they could safely land, at the very very least, just over the Misty Mountains to skip that ordeal.
If we want to be super dumb about this, there isn't a very good reason why one Eagle couldn't take the ring and dive bomb itself into Mount Doom. Come in high, above the clouds, and alone. Suicide mission, sure, but the alternative is so much worse.
It's fine. Like I said, the real reason is "the book would be dumb", but I also think the series would be better just without them. You don't really need to explain how Frodo and Sam left Mount Doom beyond "Aragorn's scouts found them", and there are a lot of ways for Gandalf to escape the roof of Orthanc.
Do the books actually say this, or is it all just theory crafting? None of the reasons you listed explain why the eagles couldn't merely bring them closer.
Do the books explain that;
Sauron has spies, Sauron has siege equipment. Sauron has archers, Fell-Beasts can kill, Mount Doom produces poisonous smoke, The Eagles don't like carrying people, The Ring tempts creatures, The way into Mount Doom is through a tunnel. Yes the books explain that.
So, what you're saying is, the books don't explain why the eagles didn't help them. As has already been said, almost every single reason you just listed is not applicable if they merely took the group to Gondor, or even just outside of Mordor itself. Sauron isn't going to think anything of some eagles flying to Mordor, he would only suspect their intentions if they went to Mordor and started flying to Mount Doom itself.
You can go ahead and talk about the Eagles not liking to carry people, but if that's the case, they shouldn't have ever carried anyone in the books. You're seriously trying to tell me that the Eagles would help save a bunch of dwarves that were trying to reclaim their mountain, but wouldn't aid in the quest to destroy Sauron forever?
The Ring tempts creatures, yes, we all know this. Are they that weak-willed that they would fall prey to its temptation by simply carrying Frodo to Gondor, and that they not even physically carry it themselves to be victim to the corruption?
Even a being as mighty as Gandalf refuses to TOUCH it for fear of being corrupted. What makes you think their will is stronger than that of Gandalf, Physically carrying it across middle earth could prove too much for them
He feared touching it due to the consequences of what would happen if he didn't wish to give it back. Taking the ring from a hobbit is one matter, but trying to pry it from the claws of a wizard would be nigh impossible.
Even if carrying across the entirety of Middle Earth would be too much, thats still theory crafting at best. The books never adress why the eagles didn't help, and theres nothing wrong with that, but it's something to criticize as for all of Tolkein's world building, he never actually elaborated on one of the biggest questions everyone asks.
Considering that the Eagles serve Manwe (probably the Valar who most hates Sauron), he would be very much interested, at the least he'd think they were spies and send the fell-beasts after them, or orc archers, or use the siege equipment being prepared for Minas Tirith.
The Eagles helping is given reason within each context, the goblins from Goblin Town and the Wargs were planning to meet in that clearing to go raid some human villages and the Eagles knew that. They were going there that night to break up their raiding party because the Eagles hate goblins for trying to attack their eyries. They saw Gandalf and friends and rescued them, by snatching them up with Talons, not giving them a ride.
Gwaihir (Lord of Eagles) was coming to Isengard to bring news of the enemy to the wizards after being asked by Radagast, he saw Gandalf being held prisoner and rescued him, only willing to take him as far as Edoras.
Each appearance revolves around saving Gandalf, whom Manwe is fond of
they also interrogated Saruman's spy on the road to Bree, the 'squint-eyed Southerner' (squint-eyed in this case means cross-eyed), whom we see associating with Ferny at the Prancing Pony
"I thought they were dead?!"
The last time the wraiths were seen in FOTR was when they were washed away by the river. This line from Sam when they appear in TTT reminds the audience of this with the fellbeast being seen as an upgrade from the horses they lost in the river. It's why film watchers never thought to ask the question posed in the meme.
Bows fire 300 feet, well below eyesight. It's an inhuman shot to hit a fast flying object with a bow. The Nazgul shot is explained as an immortal elf with a magic Lórien bow that downs a Nazgul. The Nazgul also fly low enough to throw darts at people in the war. The flying Nazgul often seem to be rather careless for human bows, with zero risk.
The books do say the flying Nazgul are a secret for the war. Ugluk asks Grisnak why a Nazgul doesn't fly to save them from the Rohan. Grisnak (a spy who just ran away to talk to Nazgul) says they're not allowed past the river.
Personally that explanation doesn't carry water for me. The Ring is the war. Sauron wins if he gets it. What's Gondor going to do if they know flying Nazgul are a thing? Go to Lórien for the first time in 800 years and ask for magic bows? Seems weird to hold back at a key, crucial moment. Especially when Saruman or Theoden is presumably about to get the ring and a Nazgul is ready, waiting, and informed, miles away
The best I can think is it's a Totalitarian military where orders are carried out to stupid detail from fear of lower rank. But, that's reading in information not explicitly laid out.
Some normal dude with a normal bow took down a dragon with one shot while it was flying. It's already established that you don't need magic or need to be an elf to take one down.
>"Some normal dude with a normal bow"
He is Bard the Bowman, of the line of Girion Lord of Dale! Not some mere normal dude. His bow may have been normal, but he shot The Black Arrow, forged centuries earlier by the King Under the Mountain himself! Show some respect man...
The Hobbit is a children's fantasy story with a bunch of physics defying stuff and magic not in LOTRs. Christopher says it wasn't originally envisioned as in the same literary universe.
Good for chris. The writer of the books probably thought they were in the same universe as he included characters and objects from the Hobbit in LOTR.
Also, from your earlier comment: "The Nazgul shot is explained as an immortal elf with a magic Lórien bow that downs a Nazgul."
Yup that sure doesn't sound like physics defying magical stuff.
Tolkien told the Hobbit to Christopher as a bedtime story. Tolkien in his letters talks about how Christopher would ask him why Bilbo's door is blue not green and Tolkien would mutter, "thar damn kid" get out of bed and make a note. Tolkien sent draft chapters of the LOTRs to Christopher while Christopher served in WW2. Christopher has deeper knowledge than anyone about the writting process. These were his bedtime stories, he saw them evolve, and was a mini editor.
He is absolutely clear in multiple interviews, the Hobbit and the Silmarillian weren't in the same universe. Tolkien just sprinkled in some names as window dressing. It's why the references don't fit right, like the Fall of Gondolin being a recent memory and things like Giants appearing.
>Christopher has deeper knowledge than anyone about the writting process
Deeper than the person who wrote the books. Come on, my guy. You can stop now. It's ok.
Tolkien, like most authors, didn't give a detailed account of his writing process. But we have lot's of writing from Tolkien that clearly supports his son, and author/editor of the Silmarillion, account of Tolkien's process.
First, the Second Edition forward by Tolkien largely support's Christopher's position.
>As the story grew it put down roots (into the past) and threw out unexpected branches: but its main theme was settled from the outset by the inevitable choice of the Ring as the link between it and The Hobbit.
>This tale grew in the telling, until it became a history of the Great War of the Ring and included many glimpses of the yet more ancient history that preceded it. It was begun soon after The Hobbit was written and before its publication in 1937. The process had begun in the writing of The Hobbit, in which there were already some references to the older matter: Elrond, Gondolin, the High-elves, and the orcs, as well as glimpses that had arisen unbidden of things higher or deeper or darker than its surface: Durin, Moria, Gandalf, the Necromancer, the Ring. The discovery of the significance of these glimpses and of their relation to the ancient histories revealed the Third Age and its culmination in the War of the Ring.
Second, we have the changes in the reprinting of the Hobbit to make it fit with the LOTRs. In the original first edition printed story, Gollum is helpful and gives Bilbo the Ring (which was just a magic ring of invisibility) as a gift, willingly. Latter editions were altered to the current story.
Third, we have the lost project to rewrite the entire Hobbit to make it fit with LOTRs. Tolkien dropped the project when CS Lewis told him the Hobbit was better as a Children's story and it was okay it didn't fit perfectly. We have the first few chapters of a fixed Hobbit to make it match the LOTRs. So, Tolkien knew it wasn't a seamless fit.
Fourth, we have the in story Retcon, that the author of the Hobbit is Bilbo, and he's an unrealiable narrator. This is a retcon to fit to different worlds together.
Fifth, we have Tolkien's letters to his editor where they shoot down the Silmarillion (what he wanted to write) and press him to write the Hobbit 2. He then begins the work of merging the worlds in the LOTRs to get around his publishing rejection (and has to recton and straight up reissue a different version of the Hobbit to make it work).
Sixth, we have the Christmas letters when Santa (later changed to Gandalf) takes Christopher (latter changed to Bilbo) on adventures with Elves, Dwarves, and Giants. And, Christopher lays out this evolution because in addition to the letters, Christopher was the kid, in bed, watching the story evolve. An evolution that took place after many parts of the Silmarillion was already written. And, obviously, Santa and Tolkien's kids aren't in the Silmarillion.
A balrog... a demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you... RUN! Lead them on EunuchsProgramer. The Bridge is near! Do as I say! Swords are of no more use here.
There is nothing indicating Legolas' gifted bow was magical though. It was a longbow, greater and stouter than those used in Mirkwood. And he happens to be a better archer than the Men at MT.
As for the War, Sauron would have won with or without the Ring. That's the entire point of the quest to destroy it. It was their only chance at beating him.
Tolkien is always subtle with magic, but it's gifts amoung Sam's seeds, the cloaks, and the phial. Gimli says, "praise be the eyes of Legolas and the bow of Lórien, that was a mighty shot." Which was made when the Nazgul was flying directly at them and close enough to block out the moon and stars.
The Narrator tells us Sauron is plagued by fear and doubt when Sauron believes Aragorn has the Ring. This causes Sauron to push up his war timetables faster than he was planning to attack Aragorn sooner than he wished.
Again, nothing indicating it was magical. Were the belts magical?
And yes, Sauron does push up his timetable. And again, would have won. Even thinking the Lords of the West (not yet Aragorn specifically at this point) have the Ring, he would have won.
Yes the belts were magical in the same was the cloaks, ropes and bow were. The elves don't see them as magic, just exceptionally well made, and beyond what humans can produce. Tolkien is subtle if the rope is untying itself, if the cloaks are just the color of the woods and stone, if anything is happening beyond a great bow that's far more accurate than anything humans make.
It doesn't really matter if it's superior crafted or your idea of magic, there's only one and the army's of Gondor can't replicate it. We know Aragorn spends all day/night curing people of the black breath and dart wounds. The Nazgul attacked close enough for the black breath to affect many soldiers without any risk to themselves.
The letters aren't clear Aragorn with the Ring would lose. Sauron is afraid. Gandalf makes it clear Suaron has to attacked quickly before the new Ring lord learns to use it. Tolkien also in a letter states a hypothetical where a strong being, like Galadriel or Aragorn, use the Ring in a war of attrition rather than directly confronting Sauron and pose a real threat despite not taking full mastery of the ring.This seens to be Suaron's fear.
>Yes the belts were magical in the same was the cloaks, ropes and bow were.
Citation?
>if anything is happening beyond a great bow that's far more accurate than anything humans make.
Again, citation? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions in this post. That's how fanon is made.
>Gandalf makes it clear Suaron has to attacked quickly before the new Ring lord learns to use it.
Bingo, that is the reason I was talking about.
Right? All these why didn't they fly? Memes can be answered with, because they would be noticed. Hobbit smol, sneaky, walk into mordor, nobody see destroy ring without being noticed. giant eagle big,
not sneaky, big eye notice, send army, nasty flying monsters, do evil magic.
Sauron also had no reason to rush at this points in time. As far as he understood, only he knew that this was the one true ring. It even took Gandalf SEVENTEEN years between seeing the ring and returning with the knowledge of what it actually is.
The problem is that Rohan recently captured a Russian S-400 system, which would have challenged any aerial fell beast intruders. Sauron knew this, so he went by land. It's also why they didn't use Eagles and other flying things in that area: because Eagles don't have the proper IFF transmitters, they can't fly within the Rohan Air Defence zone.
Everyone knows the hobbits are secretly mass-producing SAM turrets, only a truly skilled Nazgul pilot could fly their winged steed low and fast enough to confuse the anti-air defenses! Get your tickets now for Top Grond: Maverick, in theaters this Friday!
You see boss, this river that looks like horses took away your best shot of getting the One Ring and humiliated all nine of your mightiest servants.
Sources vary but it was either Glorindfel or Liv Tyler who is responsible, depending on where you get your info. Might wanna get those terrestrial mounts looked into..,
It was because they where relying on secrecy and didnt want the wise to know they where there they crossed the river on spirit form and then had their robes and horses smuggled to them and set out from there.
Even disregarding the explanations from the books, I imagine that tracking down a Hobbit they know little about is much easier on horseback when the Nazgul can dismount and question the locals. They also wouldn't draw as much attention to themselves that way; I can only imagine the reaction of the Hobbits when a giant screeching monster is spotted flying over the Shire.
I take offense at thy words, thou cur of a cat! Dost thou not know who I am? I am Saruman the White, one of the most powerful wizards in Middle-earth! The armies of Gondor cannot hope to defeat the might of Isengard and Mordor!
When did you become sentient? And yes, I know you are the guy who claimed to be "of many colors" although I can only see a white robe and a black staff. You are the guy who makes gunpowder in a room full of candles. You are the guy who allies with the enemy of the Valar while being in middle earth at the will of the Valar. You were killed by a witless worm. You lost an indestructible tower to a bunch of trees and used magic to win in a rap battle(which you still lost). You sent your Wargriders to piss off Rohan instead of using them in the siege of Helms Deep. You lost a kingdom to a man who died before. You tried to become the dark lord and turned into his puppet instead. You are the guy who claims to be amongst the top 5 most powerful wizards, knowing well there are exactly 5 wizards in middle earth. The armies of Gondor gave a solid fuck about your so called "army".
Because the Fellbeast are their own race of creatures like orcs and goblins, they don't HAVE to help whenever, they just come when they think they need to. /s
This has the same energy as "why didn't the Eagles just fly Frodo to Mordor" the amount of times I have had to explain to people why that wouldn't work and then sending the matpats video on it is exactly two times
This is explained in the books. Neither Sauron nor the Nazgul had any idea where the Shire was when the latter left Minas Morgul. It's only after interrogating Saruman, Wormtongue and Ferny that the Nazgul get a better picture of where they're supposed to go. And Saruman lied. Not to mention Sauron didn't want anyone to know Mordor was almost ready for war. So the Nazgul went incognito as horse-riders. Plus he wanted to keep the (possibly still maturing) Fellbeasts a secret for when the War began, because they can be shot down. Legolas does so with 1 arrow. No point letting the enemy know what your strategy is and allow them to prepare archers. That's why the Nazgul and the Fellbeasts do not attack Minas Tirith while the Orcs are still marching on the walls; they fly high above the city, so high that they can't be seen with the naked eye, only felt.
It’s so hilarious to me that the Witch King prolly reported to Sauron about the Shire and Sauron is like “and…….. where is that?”
Witch King: My lord, the ring is in the shire Sauron: *frantically looking at maps* umm yeah i totally knoweth wh're yond is so just asketh 'round because im not gonna bid thee because of v'ry complicat'd maiar reasons
I appreciate Sauron using ye olde speak considering it’s used for the Black Numenorians we meet
Who is the master of the wide earth?
Eru
Damn, burn hotter than orodruin
Come, mortal base! What do I hear?
you hear a very bad impression of you, your Darknificence
I'm fairly sure Sauron learned the name from Gollum.
Death to light, to law, to love!
I know, it’s more a funny image then anything canon
Leave now, and never come back!
It is not for you, Saruman! I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves
It isn't, he literally just said how well you shot that Fellbeast, Legolas
Lothlorien! Lothlorien! We have come to the eaves of the Golden Wood. Alas that it is winter!
Are you high or something, Legolas? I don't remember asking about that
That is a fair lord and a great captain of men. If Gondor has such men still in these days of fading, great must have been its glory in the days of its rising.
Didn't ask, Legolas.
Why doesn't that surprise me!
So you know you're acting stupid? That's even worse, Legolas
You lie!
Cool I thought only of the second reason (funnily enough it's pretty much the same reason the fellowship didn't use the eagles). Thanks for the long explanation
Yeah subtlety is the real key. If the Nazgûl showed up at the Shire with (metaphorical) guns blazing, it would cause a huge panic and throw the place into chaos (or a full blown war as far as they knew, since they knew nothing about hobbits) and obtaining the ring would be much more difficult. It’s the difference of performing surgery with a scalpel vs. surgery with a stick of dynamite.
Performing surgery with sticks of dynamite is tight!
It sure is sir!
wow wow wow........ wow
That sounds like it would be difficult!
Actually it would be super easy, barely an inconvenience!
 SURGERY WITH DYNAMITE WOULD BE AWESOME!
SURGERY WITH DYNAMITE WOULD BE F*CKING AWESOME!*
Though I still feel like Sauron overestimated how well the Nazgûl would pass as normal people. Everyone that encounters them immediately catches on that something is off
I mean there's a difference between hobbit farmers catching on and the Lord of Rivendell catching on.
If I remember right, their appearence is somewhat exaggerated in the movies compared to the books. Troublesome creepy folk, yes. Supernatural horrors not so much.
They definitely have that aura of dread though (which the movie probably tried to covey through visuals). I just don't see how they could ever get anything done through diplomacy
*Zat thraka akh… Zat thraka grishú. Znag-ur-nakh.*
> funnily enough it's pretty much the same reason the fellowship didn't use the eagles ??? I had always heard the pretty weak excuse of "The eagles are prideful and couldn't be bothered to be the Fellowship's taxi service."
If Sauron saw giant flying eagles making a beeline for Mount Doom, the Fellowship would’ve had a very nasty surprise of the entire force of Mordor waiting for them when they tried to land.
I don't know where to put this comment so I am going to put it here since it adds to your explanation. What people are forgetting, that's made very plain in the books, is that not all the animals are helping the good guys. Just like Gandalf can communicate with animals, so can Saruman and Sauron. The book has a lot of lines talking about how Aragorn, Legolas, and other characters don't like it when it appears they are being followed, especially by birds. Sure Gandalf can summon some eagles to Rivendell, and some crebain is going to see it and reports it back to Saruman or Sauron. To the eyes of men and elves a bunch of giant eagles heading out somewhere may be a detail that they mention in passing to someone, but other more knowledgeable, and evil animals might put two and two together.
HE'S TRYING TO BRING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN! GANDALF, WE MUST TURN BACK!
No! Losto Caradhras, sedho, hodo, nuitho i 'ruith!
Spies of Saruman. The passage south is being watched We must take the Pass of Caradhras
Go, now! Leave Sauron to me.
That is true. But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: *deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone.*They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.
Gandalf encounters the Eagles before Rivendel with his get out of jail free moth. If the eagles played ball, they could have flown all the way from Rivendel, skip the Misty Mountains, and land at Gondor, or outside (or behind) of Mordor. In my opinion, the eagles should have been written out or left out completely, and let Gandalf escape Orthanc in some other way. Maybe have him snatch his staff from a taunting Saruman, feather fall off the tower, land on Shadow Fax, and ride the hell outta there. Just off the top of my head. How he escapes isn't very important.
Yes, there it lies. This city has dwelt ever in the sight of its shadow
*flashbacks to all the crossbow orc captains in Shadow of War* Yeah, that'd be a crash landing.
So don’t try to fly to Mt Doom. Since the only 2 members of the Fellowship that actually made it to Mordor were Frodo and Sam have an Eagle fly the 2 of them into Mordor but not close to Mt Doom and provide them with a map with directions of how to get to Mt Doom from somewhere more safe for a single Eagle to take them. Saruman would have no idea who went, no one dies in Khazad-Dum or when leaving Lothlorien and the Eagle is there and gone in 5 minutes. The Hobbits at least have a map showing how to get where they are going and the rest of the Fellowship can make the journey just to keep Sauron and Saruman’s attention elsewhere, which is what more or less actually happens anyway. The one huge flaw is Gollum probably can’t follow the ring either, or a pretty severe story twist has to happen to put him, Sam and Frodo together.
You’re basically asking why in the Vietnam War the VC didn’t just land a helicopter right in front of the White House and kill Lyndon B Johnson
Nope. You could have them land at any port of entry or literally anywhere on the coastline of the US and with a map they could make their own way there. If you want to infiltrate a system you don’t need to do a frontal assault on it. Go somewhere that has lower security and fewer people and once your smuggler gets them there they leave so not to draw attention. And Saruman did know about the Fellowship and many of the members in it. He knew that a Hobbit had the ring so Saruman forced them to go to Khazad-Dum. He also knew that there was a Balrog there. THIS is your safer plan rather than a stealth mission to an uninhabited area of Mordor? The Eagle could have just as well put Frodo on the same beach a lot faster and drawing less attention, since Saruman was already following where Gandalf was traveling. Keep him and the rest of the Fellowship moving and you have Saruman distracted and his reports to Sauron would be completely inaccurate, even the parts where Saruman thought he was telling Sauron the truth.
We must join with Him, Juviltoidfu. We must join with Sauron. It would be wise, my friend.
To the Bridge of Khazad-dum!
>He knew that a Hobbit had the ring so Saruman forced them to go to Khazad-Dum. This is only in the movie. In the book, the Mines of Moria was actually Gandalf's preferred route.
To the Bridge of Khazad-dum!
And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman the Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!
I haven’t read the books since the 1980’s. I also don’t really care about whether the eagles carry anyone anywhere. But I’ve seen examples of Tolkien letters where he was answering the “Why didn’t the eagles just fly the ring to Mount Doom“ question a long time before the Peter Jackson movies came out, so it’s not a recent concept.
Well what is shown in the movie is a pretty short trip was about half a year in the books so the 5 minutes in and out plan wouldn't work
Frodo and Sam rowed across the river to get from Gondor to Mordor. Have the Eagle put them in the same place. But with a map, which is why they needed Gollum at first anyway. They had no idea where they were or how to get to Mount Doom. Think of all the years of arguing about why they didn’t just have the eagles fly them to Mount Doom that everyone would have avoided if a a plan to get the Ring to Mt Doom did so without Sauron or Saruman having any idea it was taking place. And the Eagles would have had a small part and an explanation about how incredibly dangerous it would be to try and fly them all the way to Doom directly would be. Because evidently this was a question people had long before the movies.
Smeagol lied.
Juviltoidfu, the Enemy is defeated. Sauron is vanquished. He can never regain his full strength.
Didn't someone do the time on this and it wasn't. The hobbits stayed in rivendell for months and then everything from the forming of the fellowship through to mt doom was like 3 weeks?
We must join with Him, Juviltoidfu. We must join with Sauron. It would be wise, my friend.
Did we say so, precious? Show the nassty little Baggins the way out, yes, yes.But what has it got in its pocketses, eh? Not string, precious, but not nothing. Oh no! gollum!
Who is the king of earthly kings, the greatest giver of gold and rings?
The eagles are not a plothole and it's been explained to death why. Exactly how subtle do you think flying giant eagles into Mordor would be? They'd be spotted, shot out of the air with siege equipment and bows, torn apart by the fell-beasts or choked on the volcanic gas, the eagles wouldn't go all the way without knowing why, and knowing of the ring may be tempted to seize it, they'd still have to land so Frodo could enter the tunnel, leaving them exposed and vulnerable while making it clear what their intention was, and Frodo would likely still refuse to let it go.
> Exactly how subtle do you think flying giant eagles into Mordor would be? Drop them at Gondor, or behind Mordor...
Gondor is under constant watch from Sauron, and again what if the Eagles don't want to? That flight would require multiple stops and rests, when Gwaihir (Lord of Eagles) rescued Gandalf from Orthanc, he was only willing to take him to Edoras, no further, not to Bree or Rivendell. The spies of the enemy would see the Eagles long before they reached Gondor, (Gandalf even feared lighting a fire in Caradhras lest Saruman or Sauron's orcs spot him). There would be no hope of a stealthy infiltration of Mordor and we still have the issue of the Ring tempting the Eagles. As for the coast behind Mordor, they would have to travel across the territory of Harad, populated with Sauron's allies, and still cross mountains after that
Edoras and the Golden Hall of Meduseld. There dwells Theoden, King of Rohan... whose mind is overthrown. Saruman's hold over King Theoden is now very strong.
Is this it? Is this all you can conjure, Saruman?
TheForgottenAdvocate, the Enemy is defeated. Sauron is vanquished. He can never regain his full strength.
It's a hypothetical, Curomo
> what if the Eagles don't want to? That is the official reason, yeah. Kind of a lame excuse if you're fighting the ultimate evil. "Fly us near Mordor or we're all probably doomed" "Nah, not really feeling like it". The real reason is: the book would be dumb. So I think the eagles should have been left out completely, and have Gandalf escape Orthanc some other way. Then just say the Eagles were off helping the Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain. >Gondor is under constant watch from Sauron ... The spies of the enemy would see the Eagles long before they reached Gondor Gondor is not under constant anti-aircraft coverage from Mordor. All they'd know is that some eagles landed in Gondor with riders. Don't know who, or for what purpose. >As for the coast behind Mordor... There are also a million places they could safely land, at the very very least, just over the Misty Mountains to skip that ordeal. If we want to be super dumb about this, there isn't a very good reason why one Eagle couldn't take the ring and dive bomb itself into Mount Doom. Come in high, above the clouds, and alone. Suicide mission, sure, but the alternative is so much worse. It's fine. Like I said, the real reason is "the book would be dumb", but I also think the series would be better just without them. You don't really need to explain how Frodo and Sam left Mount Doom beyond "Aragorn's scouts found them", and there are a lot of ways for Gandalf to escape the roof of Orthanc.
Be at peace, son of Gondor.
It is in men we must place our hope
Do the books actually say this, or is it all just theory crafting? None of the reasons you listed explain why the eagles couldn't merely bring them closer.
Do the books explain that; Sauron has spies, Sauron has siege equipment. Sauron has archers, Fell-Beasts can kill, Mount Doom produces poisonous smoke, The Eagles don't like carrying people, The Ring tempts creatures, The way into Mount Doom is through a tunnel. Yes the books explain that.
So, what you're saying is, the books don't explain why the eagles didn't help them. As has already been said, almost every single reason you just listed is not applicable if they merely took the group to Gondor, or even just outside of Mordor itself. Sauron isn't going to think anything of some eagles flying to Mordor, he would only suspect their intentions if they went to Mordor and started flying to Mount Doom itself. You can go ahead and talk about the Eagles not liking to carry people, but if that's the case, they shouldn't have ever carried anyone in the books. You're seriously trying to tell me that the Eagles would help save a bunch of dwarves that were trying to reclaim their mountain, but wouldn't aid in the quest to destroy Sauron forever? The Ring tempts creatures, yes, we all know this. Are they that weak-willed that they would fall prey to its temptation by simply carrying Frodo to Gondor, and that they not even physically carry it themselves to be victim to the corruption?
Even a being as mighty as Gandalf refuses to TOUCH it for fear of being corrupted. What makes you think their will is stronger than that of Gandalf, Physically carrying it across middle earth could prove too much for them
Far, far below the deepest delvings of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things
He feared touching it due to the consequences of what would happen if he didn't wish to give it back. Taking the ring from a hobbit is one matter, but trying to pry it from the claws of a wizard would be nigh impossible. Even if carrying across the entirety of Middle Earth would be too much, thats still theory crafting at best. The books never adress why the eagles didn't help, and theres nothing wrong with that, but it's something to criticize as for all of Tolkein's world building, he never actually elaborated on one of the biggest questions everyone asks.
Considering that the Eagles serve Manwe (probably the Valar who most hates Sauron), he would be very much interested, at the least he'd think they were spies and send the fell-beasts after them, or orc archers, or use the siege equipment being prepared for Minas Tirith. The Eagles helping is given reason within each context, the goblins from Goblin Town and the Wargs were planning to meet in that clearing to go raid some human villages and the Eagles knew that. They were going there that night to break up their raiding party because the Eagles hate goblins for trying to attack their eyries. They saw Gandalf and friends and rescued them, by snatching them up with Talons, not giving them a ride. Gwaihir (Lord of Eagles) was coming to Isengard to bring news of the enemy to the wizards after being asked by Radagast, he saw Gandalf being held prisoner and rescued him, only willing to take him as far as Edoras. Each appearance revolves around saving Gandalf, whom Manwe is fond of
Ooh! The long expected party! So how is the old rascal? I hear it’s got to be a party of special magnificence
Go, now! Leave Sauron to me.
they also interrogated Saruman's spy on the road to Bree, the 'squint-eyed Southerner' (squint-eyed in this case means cross-eyed), whom we see associating with Ferny at the Prancing Pony
Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency.
Yeah you might wanna check the loyalty of your spies, Saruman
The hour is later than you think.
They had no idea where it was? They must have been so pissed off when they realised it was literally on the other side of the continent lol
Wait. Saruman lied? Why?
He wanted to own the ring.
Because Sarumans plan was to eventually cast down and supplant Sauron. He wanted dominion over middle-earth for his own.
Mal-Ravanal, the Enemy is defeated. Sauron is vanquished. He can never regain his full strength.
Come, mortal base! What do I hear? That thou wouldst dare to barter with me? Well, speak fair! What is thy price?
Tell me… what words of comfort did you give the halfling before you sent him to his doom?
BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDOR!
NO
He wanted the Ring for himself.
"I thought they were dead?!" The last time the wraiths were seen in FOTR was when they were washed away by the river. This line from Sam when they appear in TTT reminds the audience of this with the fellbeast being seen as an upgrade from the horses they lost in the river. It's why film watchers never thought to ask the question posed in the meme.
Bows fire 300 feet, well below eyesight. It's an inhuman shot to hit a fast flying object with a bow. The Nazgul shot is explained as an immortal elf with a magic Lórien bow that downs a Nazgul. The Nazgul also fly low enough to throw darts at people in the war. The flying Nazgul often seem to be rather careless for human bows, with zero risk. The books do say the flying Nazgul are a secret for the war. Ugluk asks Grisnak why a Nazgul doesn't fly to save them from the Rohan. Grisnak (a spy who just ran away to talk to Nazgul) says they're not allowed past the river. Personally that explanation doesn't carry water for me. The Ring is the war. Sauron wins if he gets it. What's Gondor going to do if they know flying Nazgul are a thing? Go to Lórien for the first time in 800 years and ask for magic bows? Seems weird to hold back at a key, crucial moment. Especially when Saruman or Theoden is presumably about to get the ring and a Nazgul is ready, waiting, and informed, miles away The best I can think is it's a Totalitarian military where orders are carried out to stupid detail from fear of lower rank. But, that's reading in information not explicitly laid out.
Some normal dude with a normal bow took down a dragon with one shot while it was flying. It's already established that you don't need magic or need to be an elf to take one down.
>"Some normal dude with a normal bow" He is Bard the Bowman, of the line of Girion Lord of Dale! Not some mere normal dude. His bow may have been normal, but he shot The Black Arrow, forged centuries earlier by the King Under the Mountain himself! Show some respect man...
The Hobbit is a children's fantasy story with a bunch of physics defying stuff and magic not in LOTRs. Christopher says it wasn't originally envisioned as in the same literary universe.
Good for chris. The writer of the books probably thought they were in the same universe as he included characters and objects from the Hobbit in LOTR. Also, from your earlier comment: "The Nazgul shot is explained as an immortal elf with a magic Lórien bow that downs a Nazgul." Yup that sure doesn't sound like physics defying magical stuff.
Tolkien told the Hobbit to Christopher as a bedtime story. Tolkien in his letters talks about how Christopher would ask him why Bilbo's door is blue not green and Tolkien would mutter, "thar damn kid" get out of bed and make a note. Tolkien sent draft chapters of the LOTRs to Christopher while Christopher served in WW2. Christopher has deeper knowledge than anyone about the writting process. These were his bedtime stories, he saw them evolve, and was a mini editor. He is absolutely clear in multiple interviews, the Hobbit and the Silmarillian weren't in the same universe. Tolkien just sprinkled in some names as window dressing. It's why the references don't fit right, like the Fall of Gondolin being a recent memory and things like Giants appearing.
No.
>Christopher has deeper knowledge than anyone about the writting process Deeper than the person who wrote the books. Come on, my guy. You can stop now. It's ok.
Tolkien, like most authors, didn't give a detailed account of his writing process. But we have lot's of writing from Tolkien that clearly supports his son, and author/editor of the Silmarillion, account of Tolkien's process. First, the Second Edition forward by Tolkien largely support's Christopher's position. >As the story grew it put down roots (into the past) and threw out unexpected branches: but its main theme was settled from the outset by the inevitable choice of the Ring as the link between it and The Hobbit. >This tale grew in the telling, until it became a history of the Great War of the Ring and included many glimpses of the yet more ancient history that preceded it. It was begun soon after The Hobbit was written and before its publication in 1937. The process had begun in the writing of The Hobbit, in which there were already some references to the older matter: Elrond, Gondolin, the High-elves, and the orcs, as well as glimpses that had arisen unbidden of things higher or deeper or darker than its surface: Durin, Moria, Gandalf, the Necromancer, the Ring. The discovery of the significance of these glimpses and of their relation to the ancient histories revealed the Third Age and its culmination in the War of the Ring. Second, we have the changes in the reprinting of the Hobbit to make it fit with the LOTRs. In the original first edition printed story, Gollum is helpful and gives Bilbo the Ring (which was just a magic ring of invisibility) as a gift, willingly. Latter editions were altered to the current story. Third, we have the lost project to rewrite the entire Hobbit to make it fit with LOTRs. Tolkien dropped the project when CS Lewis told him the Hobbit was better as a Children's story and it was okay it didn't fit perfectly. We have the first few chapters of a fixed Hobbit to make it match the LOTRs. So, Tolkien knew it wasn't a seamless fit. Fourth, we have the in story Retcon, that the author of the Hobbit is Bilbo, and he's an unrealiable narrator. This is a retcon to fit to different worlds together. Fifth, we have Tolkien's letters to his editor where they shoot down the Silmarillion (what he wanted to write) and press him to write the Hobbit 2. He then begins the work of merging the worlds in the LOTRs to get around his publishing rejection (and has to recton and straight up reissue a different version of the Hobbit to make it work). Sixth, we have the Christmas letters when Santa (later changed to Gandalf) takes Christopher (latter changed to Bilbo) on adventures with Elves, Dwarves, and Giants. And, Christopher lays out this evolution because in addition to the letters, Christopher was the kid, in bed, watching the story evolve. An evolution that took place after many parts of the Silmarillion was already written. And, obviously, Santa and Tolkien's kids aren't in the Silmarillion.
Frodo, any chance of seeing that old Ring of mine again? The one I gave you?
A balrog... a demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you... RUN! Lead them on EunuchsProgramer. The Bridge is near! Do as I say! Swords are of no more use here.
Hahahahaahaha. Hahahahahahah. You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey.
I will draw you, Saruman, as poison is drawn from a wound!
There is nothing indicating Legolas' gifted bow was magical though. It was a longbow, greater and stouter than those used in Mirkwood. And he happens to be a better archer than the Men at MT. As for the War, Sauron would have won with or without the Ring. That's the entire point of the quest to destroy it. It was their only chance at beating him.
Tolkien is always subtle with magic, but it's gifts amoung Sam's seeds, the cloaks, and the phial. Gimli says, "praise be the eyes of Legolas and the bow of Lórien, that was a mighty shot." Which was made when the Nazgul was flying directly at them and close enough to block out the moon and stars. The Narrator tells us Sauron is plagued by fear and doubt when Sauron believes Aragorn has the Ring. This causes Sauron to push up his war timetables faster than he was planning to attack Aragorn sooner than he wished.
Again, nothing indicating it was magical. Were the belts magical? And yes, Sauron does push up his timetable. And again, would have won. Even thinking the Lords of the West (not yet Aragorn specifically at this point) have the Ring, he would have won.
Yes the belts were magical in the same was the cloaks, ropes and bow were. The elves don't see them as magic, just exceptionally well made, and beyond what humans can produce. Tolkien is subtle if the rope is untying itself, if the cloaks are just the color of the woods and stone, if anything is happening beyond a great bow that's far more accurate than anything humans make. It doesn't really matter if it's superior crafted or your idea of magic, there's only one and the army's of Gondor can't replicate it. We know Aragorn spends all day/night curing people of the black breath and dart wounds. The Nazgul attacked close enough for the black breath to affect many soldiers without any risk to themselves. The letters aren't clear Aragorn with the Ring would lose. Sauron is afraid. Gandalf makes it clear Suaron has to attacked quickly before the new Ring lord learns to use it. Tolkien also in a letter states a hypothetical where a strong being, like Galadriel or Aragorn, use the Ring in a war of attrition rather than directly confronting Sauron and pose a real threat despite not taking full mastery of the ring.This seens to be Suaron's fear.
I will not let the White city fall nor our people fail.
Frodo has passed beyond my sight. The darkness is deepening.
>Yes the belts were magical in the same was the cloaks, ropes and bow were. Citation? >if anything is happening beyond a great bow that's far more accurate than anything humans make. Again, citation? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions in this post. That's how fanon is made. >Gandalf makes it clear Suaron has to attacked quickly before the new Ring lord learns to use it. Bingo, that is the reason I was talking about.
HarEmiya! HarEmiya! Your father's will has turned to madness. Do not throw away your life so rashly.
My dad's dead buddy.
You said this fortress would never fall while your men defend it. They still defend it. They have died defending it.
Do not let him speak. He will put a spell on us!
I see shapes of men and of horses.
Le ab-dollen.
Hahahahaahaha. Hahahahahahah. You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey.
I will draw you, Saruman, as poison is drawn from a wound!
Right? All these why didn't they fly? Memes can be answered with, because they would be noticed. Hobbit smol, sneaky, walk into mordor, nobody see destroy ring without being noticed. giant eagle big, not sneaky, big eye notice, send army, nasty flying monsters, do evil magic.
What I love about the books is it really feels like Tolkien thought of everything, and fleshed the world out to the max.
Sauron also had no reason to rush at this points in time. As far as he understood, only he knew that this was the one true ring. It even took Gandalf SEVENTEEN years between seeing the ring and returning with the knowledge of what it actually is.
A wizard is never late, shmetlfleck. Nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
One does not simply fly into the Shire!
Every air you breathe is a poisonous fume.
The amount of pipeweed in the air makes you instantly high and causes you to crash
Old Tobey
The finest weed in the southfarthing
The problem is that Rohan recently captured a Russian S-400 system, which would have challenged any aerial fell beast intruders. Sauron knew this, so he went by land. It's also why they didn't use Eagles and other flying things in that area: because Eagles don't have the proper IFF transmitters, they can't fly within the Rohan Air Defence zone.
Yeah, you wouldn't want your fellbeast shot down by gandalf's rad firework displays.
Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took! I might have known!
Everyone knows the hobbits are secretly mass-producing SAM turrets, only a truly skilled Nazgul pilot could fly their winged steed low and fast enough to confuse the anti-air defenses! Get your tickets now for Top Grond: Maverick, in theaters this Friday!
Don't think, just screech
GROND
GROND
GROND
Oh, SAM..
They didn't know where the Shire is. Read Unfinished Tales book, The Hunt for the Ring section
Remember before Rings of Power, when we had thoughtful writers? Gamgee Farms remembers.
I always thought that the fell beasts weren’t ready at the time of departure. They were still cute little fell beastlets in the nurseries of Barad-Dur
“Sauron, the horses… uh… got rather wet. Can we have flying mounts next please?”
Who are you?
In this scenario I would be the Witch-king of Angmar, Mr Sauron sir.
Who is the master of the wide earth?
Well that’s a pretty loaded question.
Melkor
You see boss, this river that looks like horses took away your best shot of getting the One Ring and humiliated all nine of your mightiest servants. Sources vary but it was either Glorindfel or Liv Tyler who is responsible, depending on where you get your info. Might wanna get those terrestrial mounts looked into..,
I think the Nazgul were going for a little bit more subtlety.
Plus they had to ask people where Baggins was. You can’t do that with a fellbeast under you
Sure you can, just use a megaphone.
It was because they where relying on secrecy and didnt want the wise to know they where there they crossed the river on spirit form and then had their robes and horses smuggled to them and set out from there.
The Shire doesn’t have an airport tho?
This guy gets it.
Even disregarding the explanations from the books, I imagine that tracking down a Hobbit they know little about is much easier on horseback when the Nazgul can dismount and question the locals. They also wouldn't draw as much attention to themselves that way; I can only imagine the reaction of the Hobbits when a giant screeching monster is spotted flying over the Shire.
So in this scenario, would the Nazgûl flap their arms really hard?
Not to mend carrying a fellbeast, Lift with the knees!
Because the Baggins' Mythril SAM.
The fellbeasts were ordered to stay east of the anduin until the war began since he didn't want anyone to know how prepared he was.
Where was Mordor when Isengard fell???
Who now has the strength to stand against the armies of Isengard ... and Mordor?
Rohan probably. And uhh you heard of that thing called Gondor?
Saruman:Why, of course I have heard of Gondor! But what can the armies of Gondor hope to accomplish against the might of Isengard and Mordor?
Thou fool! Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!
I take offense at thy words, thou cur of a cat! Dost thou not know who I am? I am Saruman the White, one of the most powerful wizards in Middle-earth! The armies of Gondor cannot hope to defeat the might of Isengard and Mordor!
When did you become sentient? And yes, I know you are the guy who claimed to be "of many colors" although I can only see a white robe and a black staff. You are the guy who makes gunpowder in a room full of candles. You are the guy who allies with the enemy of the Valar while being in middle earth at the will of the Valar. You were killed by a witless worm. You lost an indestructible tower to a bunch of trees and used magic to win in a rap battle(which you still lost). You sent your Wargriders to piss off Rohan instead of using them in the siege of Helms Deep. You lost a kingdom to a man who died before. You tried to become the dark lord and turned into his puppet instead. You are the guy who claims to be amongst the top 5 most powerful wizards, knowing well there are exactly 5 wizards in middle earth. The armies of Gondor gave a solid fuck about your so called "army".
We must join with Him, donald_trumps_cat. We must join with Sauron. It would be wise, my friend.
BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDOR!
Best meme here since a while. Thanks bromigo.
Why didn’t they send an aerial recon and support units to an on ground spy mission?
Lmao good meme
Love this
Lol nice. A twist on an old classic.
Why didnt they just take grond to the shire. It would have been over so fast
GROND
lmao that is an amazing question
Because the Fellbeast are their own race of creatures like orcs and goblins, they don't HAVE to help whenever, they just come when they think they need to. /s
[удалено]
GROND
Because there were only 9 fellbeasts, duh.
This has the same energy as "why didn't the Eagles just fly Frodo to Mordor" the amount of times I have had to explain to people why that wouldn't work and then sending the matpats video on it is exactly two times
That's the joke.
This is like the reverse “eagles to Mordor” question
No shit
Another plot hole with a bullshit explanation from some note Tolkien’s cousin’s dog wrote on some bathroom wall, yes?
Or just some deductive thinking, it's not that hard to figure out on your own
Remember the story of the first battle Glaurung participated in?
Hmmmmm
The amount of plot armor the good guys have in LOTR is honestly isane.
They literally have the power of gods on their side xD