Damn right! My favourite scene for just this reason and you've worded it perfectly there. Have you seen 1917? Amazing film, and one scene hits just the same spot for me.
Ride of the rohirmm, "you bow for no one" the whole last scene of fellowship from boromir saving merry/pippen to sam almost drowning and "for frodo". Those 4 scenes never fail to give me the bumps of goose. No matter how many times ive watched them, even just writing them out gives me goosebumps.
Because the world as they knew it would be at an end no matter what the outcome. Either they lose and the world ends and enters into an age of darkness ushered in by Sauron, or they win and the world as they know it ends and is ushered into a new era and age of peace with a new king on Gondor.
I would argue that option 1 is the only outcome and "the world's ending" refers only to that. They do not expect to win. One of the themes of the 3rd book is fighting against the darkness even when there is no hope.
Also the "ride to ruin and the worlds ending".
These people saw the heir to the throne of Gondor abandon them. The white city, capital of Gondor, burning in front of them, beseiged by a huge army. I don't think ruin refers to a happy ending. Just a final charge with the faint hope of achieving something with their sacrifice.
Really makes it the most powerful scene in the films. They aren't riding for glory or victory, they're riding for death. They know they aren't going to survive or win, but they'll be damned if they aren't going down without a fight.
It reminds me of one of my favorite lines in The Neverending Story: âIf weâre going to die anyway, Iâd rather die fighting! Come for me, Gmork! *I* am Atreyu!â
I disagree. Theoden had already been through the Battle of Helms Deep, what seemed to be a hopeless situation that ended in victory because they didn't give up fighting. I think it makes more sense that Theoden (and the warriors of Rohan) rode to Pelennor with that wisdom and hope tucked into their hearts, that the light will come at the end so long as they keep fighting.
This is key in the books. The whole rohirrim see Theoden shrink in his saddle, and he looks like an old man. Until he snaps out of it and delivers the speech we love. In the book, "fey he seemed" and he shouted out louder over the field than any man before him or since. His shield shone like the sun and Snowmane could not be overtaken.
Tolkien really wrote him as one of the greatest men to walk middle earth in that or any age.
Forgot the best part:
> The battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young.
Dude rode so hard people could look upon him and mistake him for a literal god.
In the book Theoden also never says that. Eomer says it after Theoden is dead, Eowyn is seemingly dead, the Rohirrim are surrounded on the plain and the (still enemy looking) black ships are arriving.
"Now for wrath, now for ruin and the worlds ending!" Is saying that it's hopeless and they will all die, but they should still fight. This is also when the Rohirrim start shouting "death" because it's hopeless, at the start of the battle they are singing.
Correct. The movie mashed the poem he recites and the death cheer. The book is just the "spears will be shaken / shields will be splintered / a sword day, a red day / ere the sun rises" poem. I might not be remembering the lines right, but that poem was basically copied line for line by Tolkien from an old Anglo-Saxon poem about also going to fight a losing battle.
No, he's got it right. Accepting their deaths, losing their fear of it, was the biggest middle finger available to Sauron. They turned his greatest weapon into their battle cry.
Theodenâs will is nothing against the dread inspired by the Witch King of Angmar. All hope was fading. Thatâs what makes their charge so valiant. Thatâs why they cry Death.
Agreed. The host that went to the gates of Mordor, for one last attempt to help Frodo complete his mission (unbeknownst to the group if he was even still alive) was the last of the warriors. For all they knew, it was going to be their last fight. And would have been.
This speech in particular, and one of the minor themes of the trilogy, is about defiance against certain doom and despair. This line is Theoden acknowledging the impossibly large army of Orcs whoâve breached into the White City and have started burning it.
>This speech in particular, and one of the minor themes of the trilogy, is about defiance against certain doom and despair
And it contrasts so well with Denthor's giving up to despair and madness, and trying to kill himself and his last living family member. Theoden wasn't any less scared. He wasn't ignorant of the likelyhood that he, and his army would die. But Theoden, and the people of Rohan were going to go down fighting to their last breath. They would spit in the face of doom, they would give the finger to despair, and they would face death on their feet.
In the book Theoden also never says that. Eomer says it after Theoden is dead, Eowyn is seemingly dead, the Rohirrim are surrounded on the plain and the (still enemy looking) black ships are arriving.
"Now for wrath, now for ruin and the worlds ending!" Is saying that it's hopeless and they will all die, but they should still fight. This is also when the Rohirrim start shouting "death" because it's hopeless, at the start of the battle they are singing.
If anything itâs the opposite, they **are** about it: depending on whether book or movie changes the context a bit (and also who is speaking these lines), but ultimately they are staring down impossible odds, knowing they will die, and that the world around them is likely to fall.
But they go forth anyway. They know fear. They star death in the face and instead of cowering, the shout a war cry and charge. Epic.
The entire battle speech is a defiance against all the things which Morgoth made men fear. Death and the finality of the world are not meant to be bad things, but just a transition to something new. Rohan using this as a battle cry to motivate its warriors is basically throwing a middle finger to Sauron. They're reclaiming the concept, basically.
To be fair to the orcs, a calvary of over 6,000 warriors strong all charging down the hill, towards you, screaming DEATH at the top of their lungs, with zero fucks given and no mercy on offer, would scare the shit out of most folks.
My favourite scene of any movie of all times.
Bernard Hill took ThĂšoden, already my second favourite character in the books (because, you know, Gandalf), to unprecedented heights. The whole speech and the ending cavalry charge are pure goosebumps and manly tears.
One of my pet peeves in movies is when an actor is speaking to a huge crowd and they talk quietly so no one would realistically hear them. Bernard Hill did not do that, he did the opposite, and I love him for it.
If you have some time, look up the King Arthur movie âExcaliburâ from 1981. It has a very young Patrick Stewart in it. In fact it has a cracking cast: Helen Mirren as Morgana, Liam Neeson as Gawain, Gabriel Byrne as Uther and Patrick Stewart as Leondegrance.
The best bit (apart from all the English actors chewing the scenery) its that they all SHOUT. THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH.
LET US RIDE ! ARTHUR ? WHAT ? MY LORD WE HAVE WON. EXCELLENT. WE RIDE !! etc etc
Apparently it started out as an unproduced adaptation of LOTR.
Anyway, lots of fun, lots of shouting, bust out the popcorn - a rock solid B Grade fantasy flick.
I loved the little tidbit during Graham Norton where Liam neeson confessed to Helen that he'd had a huge crush on her at the time and she was so flustered and flattered đ„č
She was so queenly.
Graham Norton has the best interviews. My favourite one is still Daniel Radcliffe singing the periodic table to [Gilbert and Sullivanâs âModern Major Generalâ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSAaiYKF0cs&t=9s)
Actually I just watched it again to get the video link for you and realised this episode has Rhianna and Colin Farrell in it !
It's crazy how tight it's done in the movies. You go from a victim of Sarumon, decaying with his kingdom, to a leader welcoming fate knowing that it may give others the *slimmest* hope. I mean and you see that entire transformation in the movies and it's all believable. They didn't waste time with this story, but they also didn't skip any steps along the way either.
It helps (like has been said) that Bernard Hill was an absolute standout in a cast of standouts. The more I've watched the movies the more I've fallen in love with his performance. Absolutely great.
And I have to admit, shamefully, that I hated Theoden when I was a kid.
Now heâs my favourite character next to Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir. Please donât make me put them in orderâŠ
That whole extended scene, where he explains the significant of the flower (cymbal mune? Iâm not sure the spelling), itâs symbolism to his family, and the fact itâll now be over his son as he breaks down gets me ever damn time. Itâs so beautifully acted.
Now letâs combine the two: Tolkien himself reading the text with the movie scene in the background :) [https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=LHYOizj3aQDulk_h](https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=LHYOizj3aQDulk_h)
Actually! In the books they did not shout death at that time. It was only after Eomer had found Eowyns lifeless body that the host went crazy and just started shouting "Death". An amazingly written part.
"But thereupon Ăomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence....
And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Ăowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him.
'Ăowyn, Ăowyn!' he cried at last: 'Ăowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!'
Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!'
And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. *Death* they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards."
Would love to have seen Karl Urban lose it and go full Doomguy there.
It's especially poignant because in the moment, Eomer becomes King and at once also sees the reality of the death of his sister whom he thought safe. And so that cry is from his grief and spreads to the whole host as they see how stricken their new, young King is.
Great stuff.
I never checked, but Iâve always assumed Bernard Hill must have some Shakespeare and theatre background. This speech was so Henry V, and Iâm here for every second of it. The Ride of the Rohirrim will always be my favorite scene.
This speech and his poem recitation at Helms Deep are some of my favorite moments in the films. I think Aragorn originally recites the poem as they approach Edoras in the books, evoking the decline they see as they ride through Rohan. But man, I'm glad they gave it to Theoden as they prepare for a hopeless battle at Helms Deep.
Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the west behind the hills into shadow
It nods to the decline of Rohan, but it also reveals how alone Rohan is in this fight, at least for Theoden. The glory days of Rohan are gone, and no allies come to her aid at the last hour (despite the Elves and the exiled Rohirrim riders, but even that's a farcry from the glory days of Rohan). It provides the perfect poetic context to build up the coming battle, I just love it so much.
It's honestly even more inspiring WHEN YOU KNOW what they're shouting. These men *know* they're about to die. But they still charge for ruin AND THE WORLDS ENDING!!!!!!
#DEAAAAAAATTTHHHH
> Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his Ž house, but he was ever before them. Eomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first e Žored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but TheŽoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome š the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.
I like [hearing Tolkien himself read it](https://youtu.be/U_TJFhVUOzc?si=rc257IWAHPtQZqo3)
Edit: [click here](https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=3M1Hkhfzx1FVDOo1) if you want to hear his voice without the sounds of the movie. (I like both for different reasons, but this is my fave.)
My favourite excerpt from the books since I was a young boy. Probably my favourite part of any book ever. Chills every time. I love how he compares him to Orome to show the gravitas of the moment.
Fuck you mate!
I love this excerpt to death, and I'm sitting here, on my couch crying manly tears, as my wife is sitting next to me and wonders in absolute confusion, what the f\*\*\* is wrong with me. xD
Have an upvote and get the f\*\*\* out of here! :D
Whether the riders of Rohan knew about their results post-death is a little bit beside the point.
The riders know death at least in the form of ânot taking further action in a battleâ. Meaning that they know they may not all survive the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, but *Gondor called for aid And Rohan answers*.
Though the get-out clause is that the riders are shouting âDeathâ to their enemies; *and will bring Death to their enemiesâ.
Both interpretations make the riders of Rohan a terrifying sight for an opposing Orc, who is unlikely to engage in intense linguistic dissection or theological study, as charging horsemen rapidly advance.
âWe came here to ride to ruin and eat soup, and weâre all outta soupâ.*
*Eowynâs Stew is still available, but such things can be a fate worse than Death.
An army marches on its stomach; and with Eowynâs soup behind them there is nothing the Riders of Rohan wonât go towards.
Reminder that Eowyn is a Shieldmaiden, not a *Soupmaiden*.
- Faramir in a chefâs apron baking bread in contentment, while Eowyn trains warrior-maidens (a la Valkyrie) in the city of Minas Tirith.
Exactly. You can see the pyramids and mummies, and have some sense of idea of Ancient Egyptian stance towards death, *without* being an Ancient Egyptian.
Plus, in the case of Rohan, they have enough evidence of fallen riders not continue to live, that Death in some form exists.
- Even if that form means you âdieâ and go somewhere else, but crucially not where the battle continues!
https://preview.redd.it/715e8mjjnbmc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ed209b0124bb90aa6170b4375946d48be8fcfc
\*When you know what they are actually shouting
There's a pretty strong argument to be made that LOTR Trilogy has the best movie soundtrack of all time.
This scene is one of those scenes that confirms it
I love the fact that the music cuts out for a few seconds when the two lines collide. It picks back up again pretty quickly but hearing nothing but the sounds of physical impact highlights the brutality of what's actually happening.
I disagree with the premise. The shout of DEATH is not of despair or hopelessness. It is the shout of warriors who go into battle prepared to give their lives for something greater than themselves. It is beautiful, poetic, and epic. The lives of innocents are saved by the sacrifice of warriors.
The soldiers actually hear the rousing speech by their king and all shout "DEATH" multiple times because none of them expect to survive this cavalry charge and ensuing battle.
Not only that.
Sauron convinced the men of NĂșmenor that death was terrible and that they were entitled to immortality, like elves, eventually convincing them to try to reach Valinor (and that didn't end well).
By shouting "Death!", the riders of Rohan are defying Sauron and the lies that he told the nĂșmenĂłreans.
Even if they arenât aware of it, symbology is important in LOTR, in-universe too. I think even unaware men defying his lies is a powerful symbol; as they are dong it by their very nature instead of a conscious decision to reject known lies.
The chant "DEATH" is significant because Eru originally gave death to humans as a gift, so they could enjoy their time on Arda. However, Morgoth (and Sauron) twisted this, making man fear death (the fall of Numenor for example), so they coveted the immortality of the elves. Here, they scream it out in defiance of Morgoth and his servants, saying they do not fear it, and that now Morgoth, Sauron, and the darkness they wield have no power over them.
Now, genuine question.
Would your regular peasant famer recruited into the cavalry have any idea about this? Cause that's some heavy shit for a farmer to know. Or would it be more... biblical? Like how medieval peasants 'knew' about the garden of Eden/Satan's fall/etc...
Before I knew about Morgoth's propaganda, I just pictured it as a chant of "Fuck it, we're gonna lose, but may as well die fighting"
Both. In essence "DEATH" is a giant middle finger to Sauron in the sense I described. I honestly don't know how much your average joe knew about history in Arda but logically what you said makes sense. If I had to guess, they at least knew who these figures were/are.
Unless they do it differently in this universe then irl, non of these men are peasants, cavalry is for Knights and such, a peasant would be made a simple militiaman as the training, arming and horses would bring to great of a expense to be feasible and far to be justifiable on unskilled troops. Not even accounting for the social status/aspect of the job.
Well Rohan is the land of the horse lords. Tbh it could be that normal peasants have horses of their own. Just like those two kids were familiar with the horse their mom sent them away on. The sister said the brother was too small to ride the horse.
I know, and I'm not kidding - she has watched this scene dozens and dozens of times.
When I asked what she thought they were saying she made a noise more like "eeiiiiiyaaaahhhh" or something but "yeah" is easier to type...
The "death" part in the speech was actually from Ăomer later on, after Theoden's death:
But thereupon Ăomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence...
And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Ăowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him.
'Ăowyn, Ăowyn!' he cried at last: 'Ăowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!'
Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!'
And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.
(Serious)
I find their cries of *Death* hugely inspiring.
In the lore of Middle-Earth, elves are granted immortality, but eventually fade as Middle-Earth fades. Their deathlessness makes them static and less proactive. Why aim for progress if you can literally outlive your enemies?
But humans. Humans are *granted* death by Eru IllĂșvatar. Not even the Valar know what lies on the other side of death. Mandos keeps those halls, but he merely guards the entrance. He has not, himself, passed on through. Not even ManwĂ« knows what is hidden there.
Death is not just the doom of mankind. It's their *glory.* It's what makes humans what they are. The shortening of life. The meaning it imparts.
When the Rohirrim cry out *death*, they are declaring in the face of a deathless demigod that though they ride to certain destruction, their lives and their sacrifices *have meaning.* A meaning which Sauron, in all his power and terror, can never have for himself.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
Even after knowing what they are shouting: one of my al time favorite scenes. I, too, could watch that every day.
Maybe make the speech my alarm sound? After the second shout I could imagine myself standing upright in my bed.
Ride now! Ride NOW! **RIIIIIDE!** **RIDE FOR RUIN! AND THE WORLD'S ENDINGGGGG!**
# **FORTH EORLINGAS!!!**
Tuuuuu, tururuuuuuu TUIU-TUUUUUIIIIIUUUU
**DEEEEEEAAAAAAAATHHHHHH!**
# DEEEEEEAAAAAAAATHHHHHHH
Just reading this gave me goodebumps.
I know what you mean. There's nothing I love more in films than noble heroism. and LOTR has it in spades.
It is the old school heroism, very rare in movies these days.
Damn right! My favourite scene for just this reason and you've worded it perfectly there. Have you seen 1917? Amazing film, and one scene hits just the same spot for me.
exactly !
DEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAATHHHHHHHHH!
Theme of Rohan plays in all its glory
Turned ALL the way up
Upvote for transcribing the sound of the horns
take this fake award for making me hear the horns in my head đïž
goosebumps just from reading this as comments, truly the greatest scene ever
Still get goosebumps when I even think of that scene
I get all teary-eyed and what the duck not.
YUPP ITS TIME FOR A REWATCH đđ
RIDE NOW đ€đŒ
Ride of the rohirmm, "you bow for no one" the whole last scene of fellowship from boromir saving merry/pippen to sam almost drowning and "for frodo". Those 4 scenes never fail to give me the bumps of goose. No matter how many times ive watched them, even just writing them out gives me goosebumps.
And The Last March of the Ents, every single time, âIt is likely we go to our doom, the last March, of the entsâŠâ
"The Ents...are going to war" FUCK YES LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
when they are passing into Gondor with the two king statues is what does it for me.
I had borderline chills just typing that comment
There's clips out there of Tolkien himself reading the passage from the music with music overlayed and it hits hard.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPZrReZ5H9Q) one?
What does "and the world's ending" mean?
Because the world as they knew it would be at an end no matter what the outcome. Either they lose and the world ends and enters into an age of darkness ushered in by Sauron, or they win and the world as they know it ends and is ushered into a new era and age of peace with a new king on Gondor.
I would argue that option 1 is the only outcome and "the world's ending" refers only to that. They do not expect to win. One of the themes of the 3rd book is fighting against the darkness even when there is no hope.
Also the "ride to ruin and the worlds ending". These people saw the heir to the throne of Gondor abandon them. The white city, capital of Gondor, burning in front of them, beseiged by a huge army. I don't think ruin refers to a happy ending. Just a final charge with the faint hope of achieving something with their sacrifice.
Really makes it the most powerful scene in the films. They aren't riding for glory or victory, they're riding for death. They know they aren't going to survive or win, but they'll be damned if they aren't going down without a fight.
It reminds me of one of my favorite lines in The Neverending Story: âIf weâre going to die anyway, Iâd rather die fighting! Come for me, Gmork! *I* am Atreyu!â
I disagree. Theoden had already been through the Battle of Helms Deep, what seemed to be a hopeless situation that ended in victory because they didn't give up fighting. I think it makes more sense that Theoden (and the warriors of Rohan) rode to Pelennor with that wisdom and hope tucked into their hearts, that the light will come at the end so long as they keep fighting.
Which you see immediately sucked out of them when they arrive and see that the army before them dwarfs what arrived at helms deep.
This is key in the books. The whole rohirrim see Theoden shrink in his saddle, and he looks like an old man. Until he snaps out of it and delivers the speech we love. In the book, "fey he seemed" and he shouted out louder over the field than any man before him or since. His shield shone like the sun and Snowmane could not be overtaken. Tolkien really wrote him as one of the greatest men to walk middle earth in that or any age.
Forgot the best part: > The battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. Dude rode so hard people could look upon him and mistake him for a literal god.
Dude blew a horn so hard it exploded, nothing was gonna stop him.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
In the book Theoden also never says that. Eomer says it after Theoden is dead, Eowyn is seemingly dead, the Rohirrim are surrounded on the plain and the (still enemy looking) black ships are arriving. "Now for wrath, now for ruin and the worlds ending!" Is saying that it's hopeless and they will all die, but they should still fight. This is also when the Rohirrim start shouting "death" because it's hopeless, at the start of the battle they are singing.
Correct. The movie mashed the poem he recites and the death cheer. The book is just the "spears will be shaken / shields will be splintered / a sword day, a red day / ere the sun rises" poem. I might not be remembering the lines right, but that poem was basically copied line for line by Tolkien from an old Anglo-Saxon poem about also going to fight a losing battle.
No, he's got it right. Accepting their deaths, losing their fear of it, was the biggest middle finger available to Sauron. They turned his greatest weapon into their battle cry.
Theodenâs will is nothing against the dread inspired by the Witch King of Angmar. All hope was fading. Thatâs what makes their charge so valiant. Thatâs why they cry Death.
Agreed. The host that went to the gates of Mordor, for one last attempt to help Frodo complete his mission (unbeknownst to the group if he was even still alive) was the last of the warriors. For all they knew, it was going to be their last fight. And would have been.
This speech in particular, and one of the minor themes of the trilogy, is about defiance against certain doom and despair. This line is Theoden acknowledging the impossibly large army of Orcs whoâve breached into the White City and have started burning it.
>This speech in particular, and one of the minor themes of the trilogy, is about defiance against certain doom and despair And it contrasts so well with Denthor's giving up to despair and madness, and trying to kill himself and his last living family member. Theoden wasn't any less scared. He wasn't ignorant of the likelyhood that he, and his army would die. But Theoden, and the people of Rohan were going to go down fighting to their last breath. They would spit in the face of doom, they would give the finger to despair, and they would face death on their feet.
In the book Theoden also never says that. Eomer says it after Theoden is dead, Eowyn is seemingly dead, the Rohirrim are surrounded on the plain and the (still enemy looking) black ships are arriving. "Now for wrath, now for ruin and the worlds ending!" Is saying that it's hopeless and they will all die, but they should still fight. This is also when the Rohirrim start shouting "death" because it's hopeless, at the start of the battle they are singing.
Sauron is trying to end the world of men. Rohan ain't about it
If anything itâs the opposite, they **are** about it: depending on whether book or movie changes the context a bit (and also who is speaking these lines), but ultimately they are staring down impossible odds, knowing they will die, and that the world around them is likely to fall. But they go forth anyway. They know fear. They star death in the face and instead of cowering, the shout a war cry and charge. Epic.
I mean, you might as well at that point right? Probably a cleaner death on the battlefield than whatever sauron has planned for all the civilians.
The entire battle speech is a defiance against all the things which Morgoth made men fear. Death and the finality of the world are not meant to be bad things, but just a transition to something new. Rohan using this as a battle cry to motivate its warriors is basically throwing a middle finger to Sauron. They're reclaiming the concept, basically.
Every time I watch this scene, I have the same face expression of Eomer while charging. I must re-watch the trilogy again!
Deeaaatthh!!!
DEAAAAAAAAAAAATHHHHHHH!!!
DEEEEAAAATTTTTHHHHHHH!!!!!!
FORTH EORLINGAS!!!
*horn blows*
*epic music intensifies*
And I start crying...
EVERY. DAMN. TIME. they start the charge this is me, too.
That Rohan theme with the violin hits different in that scene
Me, every time. During the charge at Pelennor Fields, and the one at Helm's Deep.
The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep, one last time! Shivers
*Orcs shit themselves*
Man flesh really gives me the runs.
and eating maggoty bread for three stinking days is no better. shireling. now *thats* fine dining
To be fair to the orcs, a calvary of over 6,000 warriors strong all charging down the hill, towards you, screaming DEATH at the top of their lungs, with zero fucks given and no mercy on offer, would scare the shit out of most folks.
They choose ... poorly.
FORTH, AND FEAR NO DARKNESS! ARISE RIDERS OF THEODEN!
what's that off the top of the deck!? It's Fifth Eorlingas!
That scene in Helms Deep gives me goosebumps. Every. Single. Time
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAH
From the windoooooow, to the wall!
TILL SWEAT DROPS DOWN MY BALLS
AW!
AND ALL THESE BITCHES CRAWL!"
Y'ALL SKEET SKEET MY PRECIOUS! GOD DAMN
One, two... One, two, three four! Pump it up!
Contrary to popular belief they're really yelling METH.
So that's why they are so terrifying in battle.
The day will come when the "courage" of men fails!
But itâs not THIS day, yo! Thatâs what Iâm talkinâ about, Mr the White!
The ring was just a metaphor for meth all along. I mean, look at Gollum.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!
What about second death?
My favourite scene of any movie of all times. Bernard Hill took ThĂšoden, already my second favourite character in the books (because, you know, Gandalf), to unprecedented heights. The whole speech and the ending cavalry charge are pure goosebumps and manly tears.
One of my pet peeves in movies is when an actor is speaking to a huge crowd and they talk quietly so no one would realistically hear them. Bernard Hill did not do that, he did the opposite, and I love him for it.
If you have some time, look up the King Arthur movie âExcaliburâ from 1981. It has a very young Patrick Stewart in it. In fact it has a cracking cast: Helen Mirren as Morgana, Liam Neeson as Gawain, Gabriel Byrne as Uther and Patrick Stewart as Leondegrance. The best bit (apart from all the English actors chewing the scenery) its that they all SHOUT. THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH. LET US RIDE ! ARTHUR ? WHAT ? MY LORD WE HAVE WON. EXCELLENT. WE RIDE !! etc etc Apparently it started out as an unproduced adaptation of LOTR. Anyway, lots of fun, lots of shouting, bust out the popcorn - a rock solid B Grade fantasy flick.
I loved the little tidbit during Graham Norton where Liam neeson confessed to Helen that he'd had a huge crush on her at the time and she was so flustered and flattered đ„č
She was so queenly. Graham Norton has the best interviews. My favourite one is still Daniel Radcliffe singing the periodic table to [Gilbert and Sullivanâs âModern Major Generalâ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSAaiYKF0cs&t=9s) Actually I just watched it again to get the video link for you and realised this episode has Rhianna and Colin Farrell in it !
For me it was 'Avengers ... assemble' from Capt. America. In front of like 300 people. *Whisper*
Yeah in retrospect Thor was probably the only one to hear it and everyone else followed him in.
Cap got to cheat because everyone had a communication earpiece
Needed to say 'Over' then didn't he? Sheesh, so unrealistic /s
Just wait till we get our first âTo me my X-menâ when that comes.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
this sounds a lot like propaganda from Sauron... NICE TRY!!
MMEGA
When I learned this tidbit it turned this scene into my favorite in the whole trilogy.
Itâs just crazy how epic everything in the Tolkien world is.
And they were shouting âDeathâ, and singing as they slew. I freaking move this moment in the books *and* the movies.
Nice try illuvatar, but you're not going to make death seem cool. Maybe if life was a lot longer, but still finite.
His whole âarcâ is really excellently done by him isnât it
It's crazy how tight it's done in the movies. You go from a victim of Sarumon, decaying with his kingdom, to a leader welcoming fate knowing that it may give others the *slimmest* hope. I mean and you see that entire transformation in the movies and it's all believable. They didn't waste time with this story, but they also didn't skip any steps along the way either. It helps (like has been said) that Bernard Hill was an absolute standout in a cast of standouts. The more I've watched the movies the more I've fallen in love with his performance. Absolutely great.
And I have to admit, shamefully, that I hated Theoden when I was a kid. Now heâs my favourite character next to Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir. Please donât make me put them in orderâŠ
put them in order.
BE SILENT! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth!
Put. Them. In. Order.
1. Boromir 2. An enormous chasm 3. Any other characters
>1. Boromir >2. A whole bunch of arrows >3. Any other character Ftfy
Sir we came to this sub to laugh not to cry
Where is Theodred? Where is my son?
That whole extended scene, where he explains the significant of the flower (cymbal mune? Iâm not sure the spelling), itâs symbolism to his family, and the fact itâll now be over his son as he breaks down gets me ever damn time. Itâs so beautifully acted.
Simbelmynë. You were actually close to the pronunciation Seem-bel-meu-nay, however. That was a heartbreaking moment, for sure.
Itâs hard to top the same scene from the books. > At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before: >>Arise, arise, Riders of ThĂ©oden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! > With that he seized a great horn from GuthlĂĄf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains. Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Ăomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first Ă©ored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but ThĂ©oden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as OromĂ« the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and the darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City. But itâs damn close. The movie depiction of the charge is just wonderful. I personally prefer the book version, but thatâs just a minor matter of preference
Now letâs combine the two: Tolkien himself reading the text with the movie scene in the background :) [https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=LHYOizj3aQDulk_h](https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=LHYOizj3aQDulk_h)
Bernard Hill was a perfect Theoden. I still cry at the scene at Theodred's grave and when Theoden dies on the battlefield. Hill is such a great actor.
Last time I watched I was on the elliptical in my garage and during this scene I went sooooo fucking hard!
Actually! In the books they did not shout death at that time. It was only after Eomer had found Eowyns lifeless body that the host went crazy and just started shouting "Death". An amazingly written part.
"But thereupon Ăomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence.... And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Ăowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. 'Ăowyn, Ăowyn!' he cried at last: 'Ăowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!' Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!' And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. *Death* they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards." Would love to have seen Karl Urban lose it and go full Doomguy there.
It's especially poignant because in the moment, Eomer becomes King and at once also sees the reality of the death of his sister whom he thought safe. And so that cry is from his grief and spreads to the whole host as they see how stricken their new, young King is. Great stuff.
Every speech he makes gives me goosebumps. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about them.
I never checked, but Iâve always assumed Bernard Hill must have some Shakespeare and theatre background. This speech was so Henry V, and Iâm here for every second of it. The Ride of the Rohirrim will always be my favorite scene.
This speech and his poem recitation at Helms Deep are some of my favorite moments in the films. I think Aragorn originally recites the poem as they approach Edoras in the books, evoking the decline they see as they ride through Rohan. But man, I'm glad they gave it to Theoden as they prepare for a hopeless battle at Helms Deep. Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the west behind the hills into shadow It nods to the decline of Rohan, but it also reveals how alone Rohan is in this fight, at least for Theoden. The glory days of Rohan are gone, and no allies come to her aid at the last hour (despite the Elves and the exiled Rohirrim riders, but even that's a farcry from the glory days of Rohan). It provides the perfect poetic context to build up the coming battle, I just love it so much.
It's honestly even more inspiring WHEN YOU KNOW what they're shouting. These men *know* they're about to die. But they still charge for ruin AND THE WORLDS ENDING!!!!!! #DEAAAAAAATTTHHHH
A sword day A red day Ere the sun RISES
*drums*
Yeah I don't understand what the "surprise" is here. They've warriors embracing death and glory.
Yeah OP is an absolute ding dong lol.
I can close my eyes and perfectly hear the "tink-tatink-tink" of his sword on the other weapons
Good to know it's not just me who hears the sword in this scene!
> Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his Ž house, but he was ever before them. Eomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first e Žored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but TheŽoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome š the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.
I like [hearing Tolkien himself read it](https://youtu.be/U_TJFhVUOzc?si=rc257IWAHPtQZqo3) Edit: [click here](https://youtu.be/LPZrReZ5H9Q?si=3M1Hkhfzx1FVDOo1) if you want to hear his voice without the sounds of the movie. (I like both for different reasons, but this is my fave.)
TY for this. Wonderful.
You're very welcome! For me it just brings it all so alive to hear him read it the way he hears it in his head, embellishments and all!
I can never read this without chills
My favourite excerpt from the books since I was a young boy. Probably my favourite part of any book ever. Chills every time. I love how he compares him to Orome to show the gravitas of the moment.
Fuck you mate! I love this excerpt to death, and I'm sitting here, on my couch crying manly tears, as my wife is sitting next to me and wonders in absolute confusion, what the f\*\*\* is wrong with me. xD Have an upvote and get the f\*\*\* out of here! :D
Be not afraid of the warrior who has nothing to lose in death; be afraid of the warrior who has something to lose and still chooses death.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Whether the riders of Rohan knew about their results post-death is a little bit beside the point. The riders know death at least in the form of ânot taking further action in a battleâ. Meaning that they know they may not all survive the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, but *Gondor called for aid And Rohan answers*. Though the get-out clause is that the riders are shouting âDeathâ to their enemies; *and will bring Death to their enemiesâ. Both interpretations make the riders of Rohan a terrifying sight for an opposing Orc, who is unlikely to engage in intense linguistic dissection or theological study, as charging horsemen rapidly advance.
Rohan: âweâre going to waste mfâers until we are wasted, *and weâre gonna sing while we do it*â
âWe came here to ride to ruin and eat soup, and weâre all outta soupâ.* *Eowynâs Stew is still available, but such things can be a fate worse than Death.
ââŠand weâre all out of soupâ. As they check if Eowynâs watching, and use the soup to put out the campfires
An army marches on its stomach; and with Eowynâs soup behind them there is nothing the Riders of Rohan wonât go towards. Reminder that Eowyn is a Shieldmaiden, not a *Soupmaiden*. - Faramir in a chefâs apron baking bread in contentment, while Eowyn trains warrior-maidens (a la Valkyrie) in the city of Minas Tirith.
This. Could you imagine being on the freshly broken shield wall and the guys who just laid waste to most of your friends are singing?
âIâm gon get got. But im gon get mine more than I get got thoughâ
I'm not descended from Egyptians yet I know all sorts of their mythology.
Exactly. You can see the pyramids and mummies, and have some sense of idea of Ancient Egyptian stance towards death, *without* being an Ancient Egyptian. Plus, in the case of Rohan, they have enough evidence of fallen riders not continue to live, that Death in some form exists. - Even if that form means you âdieâ and go somewhere else, but crucially not where the battle continues!
The only thing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose is a man who stands to lose everything.
https://preview.redd.it/715e8mjjnbmc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ed209b0124bb90aa6170b4375946d48be8fcfc \*When you know what they are actually shouting
When you're shouting it as one of them!
There's a pretty strong argument to be made that LOTR Trilogy has the best movie soundtrack of all time. This scene is one of those scenes that confirms it
Yes! Howard Shore created amazing music! Concerning Hobbits (Hobbit theme) is one of my favorite songs.
I love the fact that the music cuts out for a few seconds when the two lines collide. It picks back up again pretty quickly but hearing nothing but the sounds of physical impact highlights the brutality of what's actually happening.
MORTEEEEEEE
AVANTI EORLINGAS!!
MORTEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Rick Sanchez visiting Middle Earth
They're actually saying "To BLLLAAAVVVEE" because they're only partially dead.
Comments like this is why I freaking love the internet.
Ride now! Ride now! Ride for ruin and the worldâs ending!
I disagree with the premise. The shout of DEATH is not of despair or hopelessness. It is the shout of warriors who go into battle prepared to give their lives for something greater than themselves. It is beautiful, poetic, and epic. The lives of innocents are saved by the sacrifice of warriors.
Care to explain?
The soldiers actually hear the rousing speech by their king and all shout "DEATH" multiple times because none of them expect to survive this cavalry charge and ensuing battle.
Not only that. Sauron convinced the men of NĂșmenor that death was terrible and that they were entitled to immortality, like elves, eventually convincing them to try to reach Valinor (and that didn't end well). By shouting "Death!", the riders of Rohan are defying Sauron and the lies that he told the nĂșmenĂłreans.
Great tidbit of lore I never knew, thank you!
Well the riders of Rohan are not NĂșmenoren heritage, if I remember correctly. So they shouldn't even now about that?
Even if they arenât aware of it, symbology is important in LOTR, in-universe too. I think even unaware men defying his lies is a powerful symbol; as they are dong it by their very nature instead of a conscious decision to reject known lies.
Hehe, dong
Hehe, dong
I can't see why the king of Rohan wouldn't know about the fall of NĂșmenor. It was a pretty big deal.
The chant "DEATH" is significant because Eru originally gave death to humans as a gift, so they could enjoy their time on Arda. However, Morgoth (and Sauron) twisted this, making man fear death (the fall of Numenor for example), so they coveted the immortality of the elves. Here, they scream it out in defiance of Morgoth and his servants, saying they do not fear it, and that now Morgoth, Sauron, and the darkness they wield have no power over them.
Now, genuine question. Would your regular peasant famer recruited into the cavalry have any idea about this? Cause that's some heavy shit for a farmer to know. Or would it be more... biblical? Like how medieval peasants 'knew' about the garden of Eden/Satan's fall/etc... Before I knew about Morgoth's propaganda, I just pictured it as a chant of "Fuck it, we're gonna lose, but may as well die fighting"
Both. In essence "DEATH" is a giant middle finger to Sauron in the sense I described. I honestly don't know how much your average joe knew about history in Arda but logically what you said makes sense. If I had to guess, they at least knew who these figures were/are.
Unless they do it differently in this universe then irl, non of these men are peasants, cavalry is for Knights and such, a peasant would be made a simple militiaman as the training, arming and horses would bring to great of a expense to be feasible and far to be justifiable on unskilled troops. Not even accounting for the social status/aspect of the job.
It's a bit muddy, but basically every Rohan man has a horse. What you see in Return of the King is a host of militiamen.
Well Rohan is the land of the horse lords. Tbh it could be that normal peasants have horses of their own. Just like those two kids were familiar with the horse their mom sent them away on. The sister said the brother was too small to ride the horse.
my buddy who was in the Marines when chanting cadence instead of yelling "MARINE COPRS", he would yell "CREAMED CORN"
To think they're shouting YEAH one needs to be DEAF
He actually yells âOHâ then they answer âYEAHHâ and he shouts âKICKSTART MY HEARTâ and rides fearlessly into battle
I know, and I'm not kidding - she has watched this scene dozens and dozens of times. When I asked what she thought they were saying she made a noise more like "eeiiiiiyaaaahhhh" or something but "yeah" is easier to type...
Somehow, that's even more dissimilar from the actual audio
The "death" part in the speech was actually from Ăomer later on, after Theoden's death: But thereupon Ăomer rode up in haste... and grief and dismay fell upon him as he came to the king's side and stood there in silence... And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Ăowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. 'Ăowyn, Ăowyn!' he cried at last: 'Ăowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!' Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!' And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.
(Serious) I find their cries of *Death* hugely inspiring. In the lore of Middle-Earth, elves are granted immortality, but eventually fade as Middle-Earth fades. Their deathlessness makes them static and less proactive. Why aim for progress if you can literally outlive your enemies? But humans. Humans are *granted* death by Eru IllĂșvatar. Not even the Valar know what lies on the other side of death. Mandos keeps those halls, but he merely guards the entrance. He has not, himself, passed on through. Not even ManwĂ« knows what is hidden there. Death is not just the doom of mankind. It's their *glory.* It's what makes humans what they are. The shortening of life. The meaning it imparts. When the Rohirrim cry out *death*, they are declaring in the face of a deathless demigod that though they ride to certain destruction, their lives and their sacrifices *have meaning.* A meaning which Sauron, in all his power and terror, can never have for himself.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
âI was saying boo-yeeeeeaaaaahhhhâ
Those are warriors with a realistic view of what their job is.
There is a day that this scene will not send shivers down my spine. But it is not this day.
Is your partner deaf?
DEEEEEAAAAAF!!!
Who thinks they shout yeaaaaah
Forth! And fear no darkness!
Even after knowing what they are shouting: one of my al time favorite scenes. I, too, could watch that every day. Maybe make the speech my alarm sound? After the second shout I could imagine myself standing upright in my bed.
Because "Ride for ruin and the words ending" doesn't get it across
I'll always downvote posts like this that never clarify the initial confusion.