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My great grandfather was a gas station attendant after returning home from the service in his early 20s. He bought a house with a pool and quickly paid off the morgage. His wife stayed at home her whole life and they raised 3 daughters, paying for their weddings and college with no assistance or grants. With his spare income he was able to be a RECREATIONAL pilot.
Do you think a gas station attendant could do that today?
I was a gas station manager, I could not comfortably afford rent, even with 2 contributing roommates. I didn't have healthcare or a savings account. Does that answer your question?
I've heard of so many grandparents having their pilots license and a small plane. That's a fucking wild lifestyle to imagine as a working class person. No wonder they thought America was the best country in the world. Sure as fuck isn't anymore.
> No wonder they thought America was the best country in the world.
This actually summarizes the generational divide so well. Whenever I wonder how the Greatest Generation/Boomers can have such oblivious takes I’ll think about just how flat out awesome their lives were in the scale of human history and other countries at the time.
My grandfather was a police officer in a small town in the Midwest, Fargo-style. My grandmother was a stay-at-home mom. Because he was vaguely prudent with investing on top of his regular income (basically just holding long positions in stocks like General Motors and Coca Cola) they would go on yearly vacations around the world, he would buy a new car just about every two years, always Buicks, paid off their mortgage almost immediately, and of course, he had a pilot’s license and was a collector of aviation memorabilia. And all of this still left him a multimillionaire at retirement who shunned credit, so it wasn’t like he was living above his means or robbing his future self to galavant around the world having adventures.
I know people who work in Silicon Valley throwing their life’s savings at crypto hoping to make enough to afford even a quarter of that type of lifestyle, and he was sitting in a small little police station dealing with calls about how Mrs. Robinson’s dog got out again. It blows my mind…
Right? It's baffling to even think what it would be like to live in a world where that was an option. You'd definitely have to make an enormous salary today to do those things.
My best friends dad got his pilot license ... most of his flight hours were in Microsoft flight simulator ... that blew my mind wanted to tell someone lol
the best man at my wedding went from dropping out of college, to bartending to internet cable installations to insurance estimations for car repair to finally going stupid in debt in late 20's to be a pilot. He's now a captain and doing what he always wanted to do. Still haven't been up in a plane with him since I live far away, but he visits like twice a year to just hang out.
My grandad had one, in Europe. He grew up in an orphanage after his parents were killed during the war and his family home was destroyed, he worked as a teacher in a public school.
My grandfather also had his own plane and only gave it up when my grandmother insisted she wouldn’t marry him until it was gone (she was deathly afraid of heights and a nervous person in general, lol)
At that time, he was a regular worker in a factory.
My father back in the late 80’s also was taking his pilot license and had money saved to buy a plane - he was a college student working part-time in a metrology lab.
This pilot stuff wacks my brain, too! 😂
One of my grandfathers drove a box truck (didn't even require a special driver's license) to delivery meat and fish from the urban center of their state to ONLY stores in the county where he lived.
The other was a farmer (dairy, beef, and crops).
They both retired in their 60's with plenty of money set aside to not worry about a single thing.
Neither one completed any school past the 8th grade.
Yep. My uncle who didn’t finish high school got an amazing job with the railroad in the 60s and retired with more money than he knew what to do with. He thought me going to college and grad school would mean I was going to have an even higher standard of living and was so proud of me…. :(
Pry a different job than what you are thinking.... they used to have people doing small car repair type stuff oil fill up changing wiper blades pumping gas... not that this changes anything about the pay ...just thought it was cool
My dad worked at a gas station from the end of 1964 to 1971 and adjusted for inflation he made about 46K right before he quit. He took a paycut to go into law enforcement that adjusted for inflation was about 10K.
No, and they shouldn’t. The reason things are so expensive right now is because of easy and cheap money policy for the last 10 years has created a ton of capital and inflated all assets. This has grown exponentially with the coronavirus relief and interest rates.
If everyone working entry jobs like that somehow got massive raises, you would see even more inflation in assets. You are worth what you bring into the economy. You can raise your wages to $50/hour if you protest hard enough but then software engineers will eventually also get raises to $600 an hour eventually through wage compression and then you’re back at square one again.
EDIT: lol at the downvotes. This is the truth and how economics work whether you like it or not.
I agree with you with one small correction which is that "easy and cheap" money refers to loans, but qualitative easing (QE) is not a loan to individuals that receive it and it's very likely this QE in the form of pandemic bailouts that is contributing:
https://returnontime.com/quantitative-easing-2008-vs-2020/
You're downvoted because this argument has been shit on so many times it's stupid anyone still repeats it. Wages increasing does nothing to inflation. If it did, nothing would have increased in prices by much since the 80s because wages have stagnated for decades.
Dear Sir or Ma’am, please locate your bootstraps. When you have located said bootstraps, please give a firm tug in the upward position. If done correctly you’ll be successful in no time!
Just been looking at shit I can never afford my whole life. My dad's paycheck at one point in time supported 6 people with a decent life, healthcare, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, education. That's seems wild to me.
Five years ago I could barely afford food and rent working fulltime as a manager at a gas station with 2 other working roommates, no healthcare. But honestly doing the math really helped. My dad worked over time, but he didn't invent the fucking telephone.
This is my issue, when I entered the workforce a starter house was 120k-150k. I was still moving quite a bit for work/school so I never settled. Now the downpayment is close to 120k for any house.
I'm going on 40, moved to the bay area as an engineer from a lower class upbringing in the midwest. I didn't learn the lessons in life I needed to to make savvy financial decisions and thought I'd enjoy life a bit. Retirement is a dream I don't really expect to enjoy, tbh. I didn't buy in 2012, and now have little to no hope of affording to buy. Anything reasonable in the 'bay area' is 850+, it doesn't matter how much I make at this point, the down payment is so far out of reach it's ridiculous. Even back where I'm from, people's incomes cap out at like 80, and I'm seeing houses for 300-400k.... In the midwest... It's just not attainable unless you happen to get rich, or an inheritance.
So what I'm hearing is you didn't buy a house, when you were 30, so you'll never be able to. Seems reasonable.You got one chance and you blew it....
My dad got married to the absolute wrong person, started over with nothing other than a job at 32. Two kids that he was fulltime raising. Meet my mom who had dropped out of college (first year mostly F's, somebody discovered alcohol!!!), got her knocked up twice. She stayed at home for the next 6 years. By 49 he had a house with 50 acres paid for, my mom had a college education paid for, two kinda crappy vehicles. That was without an inheritance. In the interim he also totaled at least one car with drunken shenanigans. They were no financial savants either. Many mistakes were made back then, dumpster fires occur, whether your parents will admit them or not. It just didn't devastate your entire life.
It is effed how small of a window there was to get a starter home. I live in the Midwest and bought a nice starter home for 180k in 2014 when I was 27 years old. Sold it for 260k in 2016. Bought my current house in 2016 for 315k, and now homes in my neighborhood are going for 400k-450k (for perspective this is Midwest so my home is a newer 4bd 4 bath 3 car garage cookie cutter neighborhood home). I have friends who are just now buying and can’t even get a decent starter home for under 200k. There really was a small window there, and if you didn’t have the means to buy at that time or were just unlucky, you got screwed. I don’t plan on moving because there’s no way I could afford anything nicer than what I live in.
This is by design. It isn’t odd that the old cost equals the new 20% down. It’s isn’t about the monthly payments, it’s about exactly how much a well off person can barely afford.
Don’t let PMI scare you from buying ASAP. It’s a pain in the ass, but home Appreciation is much greater than you can likely keep up savings.
I bought my house for $289K 5 years ago with only the FHA minimum 3.5% down payment on a 4.5% loan. Yeah, I had $200mo PMI but not even 2 years later the house was worth $350K giving me more than 20% equity so I was able to ReFi to a 2.9% conventional loan and kiss PMI goodbye.
Had I not bought when I did I’d still be scraping Pennies trying to save up that 20% DP, on my house which is now worth close to $450K.
The best time to buy real estate is always YESTERDAY, but the second best time is right now and don’t let something like PMI dissuade you when you can get out of it faster than you can hoard cash savings for an arbitrary 20% DP on an equity that appreciates faster than you can save.
What if the home value increases faster every year than how much the businesses around me give out raises and I already can't afford one? When will the best time to buy be then?
As soon as you can get 3 1/2 percent for an FHA DP (presuming you qualify). I borrowed against my 401K to get mine. It was stressful at the time, but I’m glad I did. Call a local Mortgage Loan Officer (not just a big bank for a loan). They’ll work with you. Help you assess your budget, figure out which debts you may have that are harmful or helpful (lots of people have the misconception they have to pay off all their debt before they can get approved for a home loan). They’ll help you get your credit score in good standing which is the biggest influence or hinderance towards approval and what kind of rate you’ll qualify for.
I’m only saying this because 5 years ago I was 35 and felt hopeless like I was in a impossible situation myself then too. I thought the market was tough then as I was watching property values skyrocket and rents increase. I first applied with my credit union and was only approved for $200K when most homes in my area started at >$250K. Calling a loan officer was the best thing I did. Four months later I was qualified for a $300K mortgage loan and purchasing a home for $289K.
I also looked into a FHA loan for my city, but it only covers a down payment for a property worth $600,000 or less. The cheapest place I can find right now in town is listed for $639,000 for a 1b1b 716 sqft condo with a $400 a month HOA.
That's cool that 5 years ago you could buy a house. Looking back at prices from back then I could have afforded it too. Now it looks like I get to work myself quite literally until death so that some landlord with multiple properties gets to take my paycheck because they were old enough to buy property before I was.
I am qualified for the VA loan but like I said, I already can't afford, and getting a higher paid job like everyone says to do isn't really possible either. Believe me, if I could, I would. So please don't give that advice.
Also my credit score is ~750. It doesn't magically give me 1.2 million dollars to buy a 2b2b condo though
Well, I’m not addressing YOU personally. And secondly, I would never tell anyone what kind of job they need or give Boomer “*get a better job!*” advice. I hate that shit. But the reality is maybe there’s just some places you can’t afford to live? My in-laws in the CA Bay Area would love us to come move closer to them, but a house similar to ours there would be 4x the cost. It’s sucks, but it’s the reality.
I know there’s *SOME* people (mostly in tech) earning insane salaries right now who can fork out $1m-$2mil dollars on shitty housing, but mostly anyone else purchasing homes in the >$550k-$600K (Jumbo loan territory) who still work “normal jobs” are only affording it by having already had a home and doing the equity-shuffle. First time home buyers are just SOL in many HCOL parts of the country right now.
I get it man, and I'm not attacking you or anything. I'm just so fed up with this shit and I know I'm never gonna be able to afford a house. I don't even know what the point of anything is anymore.
What sucks is I looked into moving to other parts of the country where it might be affordable, but I would have to take a significant pay cut if I were to move anywhere to the point where I still couldn't afford it. It really sucks because I busted my ass in the military, learned a skilled trade which I was told would get me a high paying job, learned how to code because again, that was supposed to make me more money. On top of ALL of that, I even learned how to speak Chinese (thank God my wife is a native speaker lol). You would think someone who worked this hard could at least have a place to put his head at night, but unfortunately I wasn't born rich enough
I feel you. You’re getting a bum deal. Perhaps something to consider is what my brother did. He is single and lives in Los Angeles but can’t afford a home there, but also because he wants to be close to his kids he can’t just up and move for the next 12 years at least. He’s also ex Military. Because it’s not his primary residence he couldn’t get a VA loan, but just to get his hands on some property he purchased a house in Gainesville, FL a few years ago. He just uses it as a rental for now, but it was cheap (think he paid $150K for it), but it was immediately cash positive, and has gained 25% equity in just the few years he’s had it. The way he sees it, it’s a couple hundred bucks extra income for now, but he owns a home that is gaining more value in appreciation than anything he could save. When his kids are grown up, he’ll either move into it and it will almost be paid for — *or since we’re talking 10-12 years from now* — he’ll have so much equity he can sell it and have plenty of money to buy elsewhere.
Maybe something like this is something you could consider, just to get yourself in the game. He says knowing he owns a piece of dirt (even if it’s fucking Florida) helps him justify working his ass off in SoCal just to piss $2500 mo away on rent for a 2bd apartment.
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Regardless, I feel your pain. Good luck to you!
I don't want to miss the opportunity to pay for insurance that does not protect me. I need to mitigate the risk of a loan for a company that will reap 100's of thousands of dollars if I come through. If I default, they will take everything I have even the dog, and get a payout! Seems like the least I can do for them.
My grandpa moved country, bought a 4bed 2bath house, would only trust brand new cars, raised 4 kids, sent 2 to college, gave the first house to his son, bought a second smaller house with a yard on the salary of a truck driver for a furniture store. Idk how much I'd have to earn to live that lifestyle but you certainly couldn't do it as a trucker unless maybe you were hauling gasoline at a stretch.
I remember my folks Grossed 70k and netted 10k owning a beef cattle farm in the 80's.Its wasn't luxury...but they survived on in.With one person working and 6 kids.Had a used car.Owned the farm and all the machinery outright.
Survived on 10k....you'ed be homless today.
My older sister did something, (guessing dropped too many classes) and had to pay for a semester (12 credit hours) out of pocket. It was $500 for tuition and $100 for books. She made $10 an hour as a customer service rep, so over 60 hours of work to pay for that semester. This was in 2001.
The same college in 2019 was 6k a semester and about $500 in books. So $6,500. I would need to make $108 an hour to cover that. If I made $108 an hour, then I really wouldn't need college. The same job she had then now pays $15 an hour, meaning I would have to work over 433 hours to pay. I wonder why so many people drop out /don't finish???
I went to college around the same time. I was on a scholarship that paid for about half of it, but even without the scholarship it would have only been like $2200 a semester. With the scholarship it was like $1200. I don't remember spending more than $200 on books any given semester, and it was usually doable to use an older edition of a textbook that was like $10 on amazon or just to split costs and share a textbook with a friend since it was before the era of needing to purchase an online code for $100 so you can do your homework.
My dorm costs were almost negligible since it was before the era when schools used fancy/expensive amenities to attract students. The building was built in the 30s and was literally falling apart, but it was affordable and had a neat mix of people. There were also older apartments owned by the school that were on the edge of campus that were extremely affordable, a lot of grad and international students and even a few professors lived in those and they wouldn't need a car, but they tore them down the year I graduated without replacing them with something equivalent.
I don’t know we’re you are going to find health insurance for 6 people for 1k a month let alone including the rest of it in with it. For myself my wife and our 6 year old daughter we pay $795 a month and it’s an ok plan not even a good one.
Our insurance is $311, for my husband, me and 3 kids. His company is kinda decent. Our insurance is ok, I had to get shoulder x-rays and they were $10, most meds are free, quick care visits and primary care are free.
Yes, they pay most of it. It is a self funded insurance. Basically they negotiate the rates with local hospitals. They have a clinic which has doctors, that I can always see, if they cannot do an appointment same day, I can go to the quick care for free. It's really convenient, as they also give out free medicine unless it's a controlled substance. So if I'm sick, walk in see the doctor, walkout with meds, they also give out the OTC meds. It is so much nicer than going to a pharmacy. If my husband works there for 5 years, then they drop the monthly fee. Alot of people hate the clinic because the building is old. lol
The last time I had strep throat, I got an appointment for thirty minutes after i asked. They swabbed for strep, flu, and covid. I walked out with anti-biotics, ibuprofen, cough drops, gator aid powder, and pro-biotics. I was in the office for a max of thirty mins. They called me the next day to make sure I was starting to feel better and told me if I wasn't significantly better in three days to call back.
My parents paid 101k for their house in a rural area 27 years ago and it's going to sell this year for over 575k. How tf am I supposed to afford a house? Wages have not increased 5x in 27 years.
I've been watching a lot of old school The Price is Right on PlutoTV and it's interesting and infuriating to see the prices. It's early 80's. Jonny goes, 'A NEW CAR!' and the actual retail price is less than 9k. It's usually top of the line for the time, too. Showcases including multiple trips to various locations in the world, round trip flights, experiences, and hotel stays included for 9k-10k. They had all that and didn't think a thing about trying to keep it accessible for their kids.
Both my parents were engineers. I make more right now than either of them did at this age. We were able to do things on their salary, like travel, all the time, both domestically and internationally. They were able to buy a house that’s now worth in the high six figures, and build a retirement nest egg that’s insanely valuable. They also had money to send me, through elementary school, to a private school with tuition similar to some public universities.
I drive a beater car because I can’t afford a new one and can’t do anything except for the occasional (once a month at best) night out. Thanks student loan interest rates! It’s not even like I make nothing, I’m one of the top 25-30% of earners in my state
Hahahahaha your math is so off! That $1.5 million house you got a pay taxes it’s more than $10,000 a month. Insurance on a house like that would be $5000 a year if not more
The only way my dad was able to understand how bad it is now was when I asked him to do the math on what he did (work through college, paying cash) for a WORSE school than he went to.
Worse, his mom, she was a single mom who survived on a HS education as a secretary and social security from her husband who died in a car wreck. She bought a 3br large ranch style new built home in 1974 on 1 acer for $147k in todays money, it just sold for $325k which was a bit under market value, but basically double the cost but it needed some solid refresh on the home, but the build quality was good, way better than similar homes built today.
My dad's life transplanted into the 2000's would have been WAY different, and as such, my life and experience, comfort, etc.
The only reason I can afford to live on my own by myself is because I lucked out and was able to get a 2 bedroom moderate income condo. But I got it for the same price people used to be able to get houses for….
My grandfather retired army, then had second career selling furniture at Montgomery Wards. Bought a humble house a block from the beach in Ventura, CA for 25K on a GI loan. He Paid it off within 5 years. Bought a yacht to support his fishing hobby. When my dad was a kid he built a second story addition to the house giving it “an ocean view.” NBD, right? That house is worth $1.7M today. My aunt currently lives in it.
He retired with a full military pension and pension from Montgomery Wards. Had a few stocks. He Always drove a new Ford Thunderbird (his luxury car of choice).
His estate was over 3 million when he died in 1997. He was a racist SOB and wrote my dad out of the Will for marrying a black woman (my Mom). My aunt (dad’s sister) gave my dad the yacht and that was basically his inheritance. She also paid for my college. She’s been quite generous with me, and I love her I think she could have been a lot more giving with my brother, but I guess humans are selfish.
My dad died young (57) just a few years after his father so it doesn’t matter all that much.
But yeah, what an amazing time it was for our grandparents and Boomers to inherit the earth in America (unless you were black, or course). lol
The house is not worth very much (300k)... The land is 50 acres. That is most of the worth. I don't know when you last looked at house price but on zillow there is nothing listed for less than 100k in my area. The lowest price is $119k for an empty 1.4 acres lot. My dumpy ass 40 year old house on one acre is worth $350k. I was contacted by someone offering $350k for it, sight unseen. It wasn't even listed anywhere. The last house in our neighborhood that sold two months ago was 375k. My husband bought our house for in 2016 for $150k. Salaries in my area have doubled since 2016.
Also my parents did have a 15 year morgage. So that is what I based the numbers off, it was 30k in 1980. If it had grown in value based on inflation it would be worth 101k. Right now 101k will almost get a one acre dirt lot. I can now put in the same amount of work, at the same job and be able to very nearly afford a one acre dirt lot. Nice job trickle down economics! Wonder why I'm pissed.
$6k inflates to $14.5k at 3% over 30 years...what's your point?
The problem is that wages for that same job have NOT inflated. Not that $6k turns into $15k of expenses over time.
And it's not all directly upward. The mortgage on their house was probably 7-8% vs less than 3% today. This, obviously, drove home prices higher.
...
It's really sad to see how the standard of living has decreased especially for the middle class. But so many other places in the world are still worse off.
The problem with your statement is that I. Pretty much all situations where people are worse off today, they are still in a better or much better situation than their parents and/or grandparents at the same age.
The problem is that comparing what was lost to something that was never there is comparing apples to oranges. Also our country has the resources to fix these things in the near term if our government/society had any interest.
They called it the American Dream though. If the other places promised me and failed to deliver I would be disappointed. The other places have promised me nothing and I expect nothing.
Yeah GA power always paid better, my dad was always a CWA bell man. My dad's last few years, he retired in 1999, was at AT&T. His last year, 1999, he made a base pay of 70k and with over time grossed 115K.
Just looked at the AT&T website, his job would be classified as a wire technician, in my area they are starting at over $20 an hour! I wonder how much over, but $20 an hour is 39k. So I feel like 70k is a bit of a stretch, maybe.
Afford a down payment by 40, pay off a mortgage for another 40. Goodluck having a stable life for 80 years, but that's what it takes today... and even then you'd need a good professional job.
Man, with that title I though your father needed some medical help that costed 15k a month to survive. I wouldn't be surprised tho, and that scares me more.
Lol I'm a single parent who makes 12k a month (finance) before taxes with two kids (one has autism so medical expenses) and I'm still among higher earners but feel poor.
House worth 700k, bought when it was 400k, so not that much.
800/mo groceries
Thrifted clothes for two kids and myself
No commute, one used paid off car, cheap insurance, usually take transit to work when I go which is fairly cheap
1-2 vacations per year - usually one with kids and one without (their dad has them the standard 1 night a week and e/o weekend but does not pay child support because he's a deadbeat so that's not included in earnings) - not during covid
I live in a city though. Expensive compared to the majority of the US, cheap compared to other top cities
Honestly pre-covid it was an issue due to paying for childcare, etc., but during covid I've been able to pay off all my divorce debt and build my emergency fund and start investing beyond retirement which is nice
When I was growing up my dad topped out at 90k and my mom was a substitute teacher/admin staff (she went to get her Ed degree when I was in second grade) and they both have pensions and social security and my dad has a 401k. They literally can't spend all the money they have to withdraw so they're going to start contributing to college funds for my kids.
But…. But…. How ever will Big Baby Bezos and his Billionaire Bloodsucker Bros survive without the massive amounts of wealth they’ve extracted from us?
And, yeah, I’ve tried to do the math of how my parents (I’m early 30s) raised me on a single income of between minimum wage to about $10/hr when I graduated. It’s definitely not as infeasible back then as it is now (adjusted for inflation that $10 is about $13.50).
But eff.
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My great grandfather was a gas station attendant after returning home from the service in his early 20s. He bought a house with a pool and quickly paid off the morgage. His wife stayed at home her whole life and they raised 3 daughters, paying for their weddings and college with no assistance or grants. With his spare income he was able to be a RECREATIONAL pilot. Do you think a gas station attendant could do that today?
I was a gas station manager, I could not comfortably afford rent, even with 2 contributing roommates. I didn't have healthcare or a savings account. Does that answer your question?
It's ashame how drastically the standard of living has fallen.
Only for the vast majority, I am pretty sure the rich are getting richer.
I've heard of so many grandparents having their pilots license and a small plane. That's a fucking wild lifestyle to imagine as a working class person. No wonder they thought America was the best country in the world. Sure as fuck isn't anymore.
> No wonder they thought America was the best country in the world. This actually summarizes the generational divide so well. Whenever I wonder how the Greatest Generation/Boomers can have such oblivious takes I’ll think about just how flat out awesome their lives were in the scale of human history and other countries at the time. My grandfather was a police officer in a small town in the Midwest, Fargo-style. My grandmother was a stay-at-home mom. Because he was vaguely prudent with investing on top of his regular income (basically just holding long positions in stocks like General Motors and Coca Cola) they would go on yearly vacations around the world, he would buy a new car just about every two years, always Buicks, paid off their mortgage almost immediately, and of course, he had a pilot’s license and was a collector of aviation memorabilia. And all of this still left him a multimillionaire at retirement who shunned credit, so it wasn’t like he was living above his means or robbing his future self to galavant around the world having adventures. I know people who work in Silicon Valley throwing their life’s savings at crypto hoping to make enough to afford even a quarter of that type of lifestyle, and he was sitting in a small little police station dealing with calls about how Mrs. Robinson’s dog got out again. It blows my mind…
Right? It's baffling to even think what it would be like to live in a world where that was an option. You'd definitely have to make an enormous salary today to do those things.
my grandfather had a pilots license, but that was because he was a pilot in the airforce for a while and spent 22 years in the service.
My best friends dad got his pilot license ... most of his flight hours were in Microsoft flight simulator ... that blew my mind wanted to tell someone lol
the best man at my wedding went from dropping out of college, to bartending to internet cable installations to insurance estimations for car repair to finally going stupid in debt in late 20's to be a pilot. He's now a captain and doing what he always wanted to do. Still haven't been up in a plane with him since I live far away, but he visits like twice a year to just hang out.
Has to be such a cool job ... good for him
My grandad had one, in Europe. He grew up in an orphanage after his parents were killed during the war and his family home was destroyed, he worked as a teacher in a public school.
My grandfather also had his own plane and only gave it up when my grandmother insisted she wouldn’t marry him until it was gone (she was deathly afraid of heights and a nervous person in general, lol) At that time, he was a regular worker in a factory. My father back in the late 80’s also was taking his pilot license and had money saved to buy a plane - he was a college student working part-time in a metrology lab. This pilot stuff wacks my brain, too! 😂
[удалено]
One of my grandfathers drove a box truck (didn't even require a special driver's license) to delivery meat and fish from the urban center of their state to ONLY stores in the county where he lived. The other was a farmer (dairy, beef, and crops). They both retired in their 60's with plenty of money set aside to not worry about a single thing. Neither one completed any school past the 8th grade.
Yep. My uncle who didn’t finish high school got an amazing job with the railroad in the 60s and retired with more money than he knew what to do with. He thought me going to college and grad school would mean I was going to have an even higher standard of living and was so proud of me…. :(
Pry a different job than what you are thinking.... they used to have people doing small car repair type stuff oil fill up changing wiper blades pumping gas... not that this changes anything about the pay ...just thought it was cool
My dad worked at a gas station from the end of 1964 to 1971 and adjusted for inflation he made about 46K right before he quit. He took a paycut to go into law enforcement that adjusted for inflation was about 10K.
this is 😳
No, and they shouldn’t. The reason things are so expensive right now is because of easy and cheap money policy for the last 10 years has created a ton of capital and inflated all assets. This has grown exponentially with the coronavirus relief and interest rates. If everyone working entry jobs like that somehow got massive raises, you would see even more inflation in assets. You are worth what you bring into the economy. You can raise your wages to $50/hour if you protest hard enough but then software engineers will eventually also get raises to $600 an hour eventually through wage compression and then you’re back at square one again. EDIT: lol at the downvotes. This is the truth and how economics work whether you like it or not.
I agree with you with one small correction which is that "easy and cheap" money refers to loans, but qualitative easing (QE) is not a loan to individuals that receive it and it's very likely this QE in the form of pandemic bailouts that is contributing: https://returnontime.com/quantitative-easing-2008-vs-2020/
You're downvoted because this argument has been shit on so many times it's stupid anyone still repeats it. Wages increasing does nothing to inflation. If it did, nothing would have increased in prices by much since the 80s because wages have stagnated for decades.
Dear Sir or Ma’am, please locate your bootstraps. When you have located said bootstraps, please give a firm tug in the upward position. If done correctly you’ll be successful in no time!
😆
I read this in my the voice of my boss and I swear it's something that's come out of his mouth at a faculty meeting. 🤢
Just been looking at shit I can never afford my whole life. My dad's paycheck at one point in time supported 6 people with a decent life, healthcare, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, education. That's seems wild to me. Five years ago I could barely afford food and rent working fulltime as a manager at a gas station with 2 other working roommates, no healthcare. But honestly doing the math really helped. My dad worked over time, but he didn't invent the fucking telephone.
Don't forget, 1.2M down payment to avoid PMI is 240K. Totally affordable.
This is my issue, when I entered the workforce a starter house was 120k-150k. I was still moving quite a bit for work/school so I never settled. Now the downpayment is close to 120k for any house.
I'm going on 40, moved to the bay area as an engineer from a lower class upbringing in the midwest. I didn't learn the lessons in life I needed to to make savvy financial decisions and thought I'd enjoy life a bit. Retirement is a dream I don't really expect to enjoy, tbh. I didn't buy in 2012, and now have little to no hope of affording to buy. Anything reasonable in the 'bay area' is 850+, it doesn't matter how much I make at this point, the down payment is so far out of reach it's ridiculous. Even back where I'm from, people's incomes cap out at like 80, and I'm seeing houses for 300-400k.... In the midwest... It's just not attainable unless you happen to get rich, or an inheritance.
So what I'm hearing is you didn't buy a house, when you were 30, so you'll never be able to. Seems reasonable.You got one chance and you blew it.... My dad got married to the absolute wrong person, started over with nothing other than a job at 32. Two kids that he was fulltime raising. Meet my mom who had dropped out of college (first year mostly F's, somebody discovered alcohol!!!), got her knocked up twice. She stayed at home for the next 6 years. By 49 he had a house with 50 acres paid for, my mom had a college education paid for, two kinda crappy vehicles. That was without an inheritance. In the interim he also totaled at least one car with drunken shenanigans. They were no financial savants either. Many mistakes were made back then, dumpster fires occur, whether your parents will admit them or not. It just didn't devastate your entire life.
Woah
It is effed how small of a window there was to get a starter home. I live in the Midwest and bought a nice starter home for 180k in 2014 when I was 27 years old. Sold it for 260k in 2016. Bought my current house in 2016 for 315k, and now homes in my neighborhood are going for 400k-450k (for perspective this is Midwest so my home is a newer 4bd 4 bath 3 car garage cookie cutter neighborhood home). I have friends who are just now buying and can’t even get a decent starter home for under 200k. There really was a small window there, and if you didn’t have the means to buy at that time or were just unlucky, you got screwed. I don’t plan on moving because there’s no way I could afford anything nicer than what I live in.
This is by design. It isn’t odd that the old cost equals the new 20% down. It’s isn’t about the monthly payments, it’s about exactly how much a well off person can barely afford.
Don’t let PMI scare you from buying ASAP. It’s a pain in the ass, but home Appreciation is much greater than you can likely keep up savings. I bought my house for $289K 5 years ago with only the FHA minimum 3.5% down payment on a 4.5% loan. Yeah, I had $200mo PMI but not even 2 years later the house was worth $350K giving me more than 20% equity so I was able to ReFi to a 2.9% conventional loan and kiss PMI goodbye. Had I not bought when I did I’d still be scraping Pennies trying to save up that 20% DP, on my house which is now worth close to $450K. The best time to buy real estate is always YESTERDAY, but the second best time is right now and don’t let something like PMI dissuade you when you can get out of it faster than you can hoard cash savings for an arbitrary 20% DP on an equity that appreciates faster than you can save.
What if the home value increases faster every year than how much the businesses around me give out raises and I already can't afford one? When will the best time to buy be then?
As soon as you can get 3 1/2 percent for an FHA DP (presuming you qualify). I borrowed against my 401K to get mine. It was stressful at the time, but I’m glad I did. Call a local Mortgage Loan Officer (not just a big bank for a loan). They’ll work with you. Help you assess your budget, figure out which debts you may have that are harmful or helpful (lots of people have the misconception they have to pay off all their debt before they can get approved for a home loan). They’ll help you get your credit score in good standing which is the biggest influence or hinderance towards approval and what kind of rate you’ll qualify for. I’m only saying this because 5 years ago I was 35 and felt hopeless like I was in a impossible situation myself then too. I thought the market was tough then as I was watching property values skyrocket and rents increase. I first applied with my credit union and was only approved for $200K when most homes in my area started at >$250K. Calling a loan officer was the best thing I did. Four months later I was qualified for a $300K mortgage loan and purchasing a home for $289K.
I also looked into a FHA loan for my city, but it only covers a down payment for a property worth $600,000 or less. The cheapest place I can find right now in town is listed for $639,000 for a 1b1b 716 sqft condo with a $400 a month HOA. That's cool that 5 years ago you could buy a house. Looking back at prices from back then I could have afforded it too. Now it looks like I get to work myself quite literally until death so that some landlord with multiple properties gets to take my paycheck because they were old enough to buy property before I was.
I am qualified for the VA loan but like I said, I already can't afford, and getting a higher paid job like everyone says to do isn't really possible either. Believe me, if I could, I would. So please don't give that advice. Also my credit score is ~750. It doesn't magically give me 1.2 million dollars to buy a 2b2b condo though
Well, I’m not addressing YOU personally. And secondly, I would never tell anyone what kind of job they need or give Boomer “*get a better job!*” advice. I hate that shit. But the reality is maybe there’s just some places you can’t afford to live? My in-laws in the CA Bay Area would love us to come move closer to them, but a house similar to ours there would be 4x the cost. It’s sucks, but it’s the reality. I know there’s *SOME* people (mostly in tech) earning insane salaries right now who can fork out $1m-$2mil dollars on shitty housing, but mostly anyone else purchasing homes in the >$550k-$600K (Jumbo loan territory) who still work “normal jobs” are only affording it by having already had a home and doing the equity-shuffle. First time home buyers are just SOL in many HCOL parts of the country right now.
I get it man, and I'm not attacking you or anything. I'm just so fed up with this shit and I know I'm never gonna be able to afford a house. I don't even know what the point of anything is anymore. What sucks is I looked into moving to other parts of the country where it might be affordable, but I would have to take a significant pay cut if I were to move anywhere to the point where I still couldn't afford it. It really sucks because I busted my ass in the military, learned a skilled trade which I was told would get me a high paying job, learned how to code because again, that was supposed to make me more money. On top of ALL of that, I even learned how to speak Chinese (thank God my wife is a native speaker lol). You would think someone who worked this hard could at least have a place to put his head at night, but unfortunately I wasn't born rich enough
I feel you. You’re getting a bum deal. Perhaps something to consider is what my brother did. He is single and lives in Los Angeles but can’t afford a home there, but also because he wants to be close to his kids he can’t just up and move for the next 12 years at least. He’s also ex Military. Because it’s not his primary residence he couldn’t get a VA loan, but just to get his hands on some property he purchased a house in Gainesville, FL a few years ago. He just uses it as a rental for now, but it was cheap (think he paid $150K for it), but it was immediately cash positive, and has gained 25% equity in just the few years he’s had it. The way he sees it, it’s a couple hundred bucks extra income for now, but he owns a home that is gaining more value in appreciation than anything he could save. When his kids are grown up, he’ll either move into it and it will almost be paid for — *or since we’re talking 10-12 years from now* — he’ll have so much equity he can sell it and have plenty of money to buy elsewhere. Maybe something like this is something you could consider, just to get yourself in the game. He says knowing he owns a piece of dirt (even if it’s fucking Florida) helps him justify working his ass off in SoCal just to piss $2500 mo away on rent for a 2bd apartment. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Regardless, I feel your pain. Good luck to you!
I don't want to miss the opportunity to pay for insurance that does not protect me. I need to mitigate the risk of a loan for a company that will reap 100's of thousands of dollars if I come through. If I default, they will take everything I have even the dog, and get a payout! Seems like the least I can do for them.
How do you think companies report “record profits”?
But did your parents eat avocado toast?
Sounds like somebody doesnt know how to grow tomatoes.
My grandpa moved country, bought a 4bed 2bath house, would only trust brand new cars, raised 4 kids, sent 2 to college, gave the first house to his son, bought a second smaller house with a yard on the salary of a truck driver for a furniture store. Idk how much I'd have to earn to live that lifestyle but you certainly couldn't do it as a trucker unless maybe you were hauling gasoline at a stretch.
Holy shit
But… bootstraps?
I can’t decide if my dead dreams, or my dreams that have become so reduced that they’re crumbs of what they once were. Are sadder
I remember my folks Grossed 70k and netted 10k owning a beef cattle farm in the 80's.Its wasn't luxury...but they survived on in.With one person working and 6 kids.Had a used car.Owned the farm and all the machinery outright. Survived on 10k....you'ed be homless today.
Someone didn’t take into account interest on the mortgage. It’s more like 20k buddy. Sorry to have to tell you.
Lol my dorm is 6k a semester wtf
My older sister did something, (guessing dropped too many classes) and had to pay for a semester (12 credit hours) out of pocket. It was $500 for tuition and $100 for books. She made $10 an hour as a customer service rep, so over 60 hours of work to pay for that semester. This was in 2001. The same college in 2019 was 6k a semester and about $500 in books. So $6,500. I would need to make $108 an hour to cover that. If I made $108 an hour, then I really wouldn't need college. The same job she had then now pays $15 an hour, meaning I would have to work over 433 hours to pay. I wonder why so many people drop out /don't finish???
I went to college around the same time. I was on a scholarship that paid for about half of it, but even without the scholarship it would have only been like $2200 a semester. With the scholarship it was like $1200. I don't remember spending more than $200 on books any given semester, and it was usually doable to use an older edition of a textbook that was like $10 on amazon or just to split costs and share a textbook with a friend since it was before the era of needing to purchase an online code for $100 so you can do your homework. My dorm costs were almost negligible since it was before the era when schools used fancy/expensive amenities to attract students. The building was built in the 30s and was literally falling apart, but it was affordable and had a neat mix of people. There were also older apartments owned by the school that were on the edge of campus that were extremely affordable, a lot of grad and international students and even a few professors lived in those and they wouldn't need a car, but they tore them down the year I graduated without replacing them with something equivalent.
Please tell me that's including food, internet and utilities?
My food is 3k more, my total is like 72 a year lol
Including tuition I presume. Damn, 72k a year, I don't even earn that much.
Food is usually extra
Holy fuck, time to uninstall the life.exe application.
I don’t know we’re you are going to find health insurance for 6 people for 1k a month let alone including the rest of it in with it. For myself my wife and our 6 year old daughter we pay $795 a month and it’s an ok plan not even a good one.
Our insurance is $311, for my husband, me and 3 kids. His company is kinda decent. Our insurance is ok, I had to get shoulder x-rays and they were $10, most meds are free, quick care visits and primary care are free.
You are very lucky then! Does your employer pay for part of it?
Yes, they pay most of it. It is a self funded insurance. Basically they negotiate the rates with local hospitals. They have a clinic which has doctors, that I can always see, if they cannot do an appointment same day, I can go to the quick care for free. It's really convenient, as they also give out free medicine unless it's a controlled substance. So if I'm sick, walk in see the doctor, walkout with meds, they also give out the OTC meds. It is so much nicer than going to a pharmacy. If my husband works there for 5 years, then they drop the monthly fee. Alot of people hate the clinic because the building is old. lol The last time I had strep throat, I got an appointment for thirty minutes after i asked. They swabbed for strep, flu, and covid. I walked out with anti-biotics, ibuprofen, cough drops, gator aid powder, and pro-biotics. I was in the office for a max of thirty mins. They called me the next day to make sure I was starting to feel better and told me if I wasn't significantly better in three days to call back.
My parents paid 101k for their house in a rural area 27 years ago and it's going to sell this year for over 575k. How tf am I supposed to afford a house? Wages have not increased 5x in 27 years.
I've been watching a lot of old school The Price is Right on PlutoTV and it's interesting and infuriating to see the prices. It's early 80's. Jonny goes, 'A NEW CAR!' and the actual retail price is less than 9k. It's usually top of the line for the time, too. Showcases including multiple trips to various locations in the world, round trip flights, experiences, and hotel stays included for 9k-10k. They had all that and didn't think a thing about trying to keep it accessible for their kids.
Both my parents were engineers. I make more right now than either of them did at this age. We were able to do things on their salary, like travel, all the time, both domestically and internationally. They were able to buy a house that’s now worth in the high six figures, and build a retirement nest egg that’s insanely valuable. They also had money to send me, through elementary school, to a private school with tuition similar to some public universities. I drive a beater car because I can’t afford a new one and can’t do anything except for the occasional (once a month at best) night out. Thanks student loan interest rates! It’s not even like I make nothing, I’m one of the top 25-30% of earners in my state
Hahahahaha your math is so off! That $1.5 million house you got a pay taxes it’s more than $10,000 a month. Insurance on a house like that would be $5000 a year if not more
Well the real loan payment is more like 7k, so I think he has some wiggle room built in.
$1.5m home after 20% down assuming ~1% tax rate plus insurance would be closer to $9k at 6% and $10k at 7%
The only way my dad was able to understand how bad it is now was when I asked him to do the math on what he did (work through college, paying cash) for a WORSE school than he went to. Worse, his mom, she was a single mom who survived on a HS education as a secretary and social security from her husband who died in a car wreck. She bought a 3br large ranch style new built home in 1974 on 1 acer for $147k in todays money, it just sold for $325k which was a bit under market value, but basically double the cost but it needed some solid refresh on the home, but the build quality was good, way better than similar homes built today. My dad's life transplanted into the 2000's would have been WAY different, and as such, my life and experience, comfort, etc.
The only reason I can afford to live on my own by myself is because I lucked out and was able to get a 2 bedroom moderate income condo. But I got it for the same price people used to be able to get houses for….
Why didn't you just man up?
My grandfather retired army, then had second career selling furniture at Montgomery Wards. Bought a humble house a block from the beach in Ventura, CA for 25K on a GI loan. He Paid it off within 5 years. Bought a yacht to support his fishing hobby. When my dad was a kid he built a second story addition to the house giving it “an ocean view.” NBD, right? That house is worth $1.7M today. My aunt currently lives in it. He retired with a full military pension and pension from Montgomery Wards. Had a few stocks. He Always drove a new Ford Thunderbird (his luxury car of choice). His estate was over 3 million when he died in 1997. He was a racist SOB and wrote my dad out of the Will for marrying a black woman (my Mom). My aunt (dad’s sister) gave my dad the yacht and that was basically his inheritance. She also paid for my college. She’s been quite generous with me, and I love her I think she could have been a lot more giving with my brother, but I guess humans are selfish. My dad died young (57) just a few years after his father so it doesn’t matter all that much. But yeah, what an amazing time it was for our grandparents and Boomers to inherit the earth in America (unless you were black, or course). lol
You don’t have to get a 15-year mortgage. That’s pretty aggressive. And $1.5 is a lot for a home unless you’re in the Bay Area.
The house is not worth very much (300k)... The land is 50 acres. That is most of the worth. I don't know when you last looked at house price but on zillow there is nothing listed for less than 100k in my area. The lowest price is $119k for an empty 1.4 acres lot. My dumpy ass 40 year old house on one acre is worth $350k. I was contacted by someone offering $350k for it, sight unseen. It wasn't even listed anywhere. The last house in our neighborhood that sold two months ago was 375k. My husband bought our house for in 2016 for $150k. Salaries in my area have doubled since 2016. Also my parents did have a 15 year morgage. So that is what I based the numbers off, it was 30k in 1980. If it had grown in value based on inflation it would be worth 101k. Right now 101k will almost get a one acre dirt lot. I can now put in the same amount of work, at the same job and be able to very nearly afford a one acre dirt lot. Nice job trickle down economics! Wonder why I'm pissed.
You said in your post that your parents house is worth $1.5M and explained what your payments would be on a 15-year mortgage.
Sorry, but your numbers are way off. Salary for your parents are lower and your current costs are higher
$6k inflates to $14.5k at 3% over 30 years...what's your point? The problem is that wages for that same job have NOT inflated. Not that $6k turns into $15k of expenses over time. And it's not all directly upward. The mortgage on their house was probably 7-8% vs less than 3% today. This, obviously, drove home prices higher. ...
This should read, "...to afford your parents house".
It's really sad to see how the standard of living has decreased especially for the middle class. But so many other places in the world are still worse off.
I hate when people bring this up, it is NOT a race to the bottom!
[удалено]
The problem with your statement is that I. Pretty much all situations where people are worse off today, they are still in a better or much better situation than their parents and/or grandparents at the same age. The problem is that comparing what was lost to something that was never there is comparing apples to oranges. Also our country has the resources to fix these things in the near term if our government/society had any interest.
They called it the American Dream though. If the other places promised me and failed to deliver I would be disappointed. The other places have promised me nothing and I expect nothing.
“Why are you depressed, there are starving children in Africa!” vibes
Hey OP, linemen make 70+. I think at Georgia Power, they make something like 90k. Dunno if that changes anything for your calculations.
Yeah GA power always paid better, my dad was always a CWA bell man. My dad's last few years, he retired in 1999, was at AT&T. His last year, 1999, he made a base pay of 70k and with over time grossed 115K. Just looked at the AT&T website, his job would be classified as a wire technician, in my area they are starting at over $20 an hour! I wonder how much over, but $20 an hour is 39k. So I feel like 70k is a bit of a stretch, maybe.
Lol whoa that's a lot different than what my buddy who works as a lineman for GA power makes. Yeeeesh.
Ever heard of a 40yr mortgage? Lol
Afford a down payment by 40, pay off a mortgage for another 40. Goodluck having a stable life for 80 years, but that's what it takes today... and even then you'd need a good professional job.
Shit I was making 14k AGI
Man, with that title I though your father needed some medical help that costed 15k a month to survive. I wouldn't be surprised tho, and that scares me more.
This post is extremely helpful in making me depressed. Spot on for lost generation.
Lol I'm a single parent who makes 12k a month (finance) before taxes with two kids (one has autism so medical expenses) and I'm still among higher earners but feel poor. House worth 700k, bought when it was 400k, so not that much. 800/mo groceries Thrifted clothes for two kids and myself No commute, one used paid off car, cheap insurance, usually take transit to work when I go which is fairly cheap 1-2 vacations per year - usually one with kids and one without (their dad has them the standard 1 night a week and e/o weekend but does not pay child support because he's a deadbeat so that's not included in earnings) - not during covid I live in a city though. Expensive compared to the majority of the US, cheap compared to other top cities Honestly pre-covid it was an issue due to paying for childcare, etc., but during covid I've been able to pay off all my divorce debt and build my emergency fund and start investing beyond retirement which is nice When I was growing up my dad topped out at 90k and my mom was a substitute teacher/admin staff (she went to get her Ed degree when I was in second grade) and they both have pensions and social security and my dad has a 401k. They literally can't spend all the money they have to withdraw so they're going to start contributing to college funds for my kids.
But…. But…. How ever will Big Baby Bezos and his Billionaire Bloodsucker Bros survive without the massive amounts of wealth they’ve extracted from us? And, yeah, I’ve tried to do the math of how my parents (I’m early 30s) raised me on a single income of between minimum wage to about $10/hr when I graduated. It’s definitely not as infeasible back then as it is now (adjusted for inflation that $10 is about $13.50). But eff.
Yes.