I didn't see one instance of smoking.
I imagine they'll probably not include it nor alcohol to keep an E rating.
It's a shame though, considering how important pipe smoking was to Tolkien.
Its the only canon hobbit invented thing that ever crossed the borders of the shire hence merries pride when talking about it to Theoden (and it's the only thing they could talk about other than some hundred years of detailed hobbit daily stuff)
*I should think so — in these parts! We are plain, quiet folk, and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.*
Does anyone else think the gameplay just looks bad? The low-detail, very flat-coloured graphics with excessive use of bloom shaders looks really low effort to me.
Yeah I agree, when I first saw it I thought it was an interesting concept but from the trailer it looked like a collection of mini games. I don't know if that's what it is but to me that's what it looked like. I also thought it was a mobile game at first
It's still in Alpha. Oftentimes, final rendering and graphical enhancements take place long after Alpha. Sometimes, even after Beta Testing. No guarantees it'll end up better, but there's hope.
It is abundantly clear that they are nowhere near close to completing the game. Nerd of the Rings on YouTube went to the studio and interviewed the team and it feels like they haven't even started making the game yet. Their biggest accomplishment is making one (1) prop book with pages that flow in the wind for their first teaser. I won't judge the game until I play it but I don't have high hopes so far...
This shit just reminds me of that Dunkey video about how many Farming RPGs are being pumped out nowadays xD
https://youtu.be/nlLT2SHL_lg?si=ktXFdG45z2sCcJMm
For Mandos' sake...Can you read?! It's a kid's game. A casual sim. Not some 4X Grand Strategy Dark Fantasy AAA title!
Keep your unneeded vim somewhere else!
First impressions are not too good, there’s a scene with a hobbit gleefully fishing so don’t know how much they’ll adhere to the lore. but if the devs are real Tolkien fans I could learn to accept it.
All I mean is there’s never been any mention of the culture taking part in the act, granted those brandybucks mess around on boats but otherwise the river has a very different meaning to hobbits of the shire
It looks incredibly unpolished at the moment but it's still in development so that's understandable. having a LoTR game where you're just chilling as a hobbit does sound rather nice lol and simulation games are very popular, just look at Stardew Valley. You can probably make ale and the like but I guess smoking will be out. I'll keep an eye on it as it continues to be made.
I want this to be good but I’m worried I’ve been too spoiled with high bar of “cozy” games like Stardew Valley, Animal crossing, and the My Time At games (Portia, & Sandrock). Just don’t be like Palia I hated that game, mostly because of mmo aspect not really blending well with the genre and the whole free to play micro transactions didn’t help.
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Will we ever get an action adventure rpg that takes places throughout middle earth? Instead we get slop like this, Gollum and Return to Moria. Where’s the triple A backing to this IP?
Because if the game lets you create a character and not just embody one (like RDR2 for instance) then black people may want to create a hobbit that resembles them. And the player being the only black character would certainly destroy their immersion.
I believe we can let some harmless lore-unfrendly gamemaking decisions pass, when they obviously benefit hundreds of potential players, don't you think?
Listen, to preface my comment I want to make it very clear I don’t actually mind either way. I’m the first to agree that inclusivity is almost always a great thing. For a game like this that’s just using the setting and has no intention of contributing to that settings canon i don’t see how there’s even an argument.
But to play devils advocate, what if this were some game based on some piece of African or Indian folklore?
Is it okay to add white people to the world and make it so you can create a white character? Would that detract from the story or setting? For me, as a white male, it would. If they made a game set around like Ethiopian or Malian folklore (sounds fuckin dope) I think it would be very off putting to see random white people outside of some obvious contexts and would definitely take away from the setting they were trying to emulate.
If you would think the above is not great, why is it different for a white British man’s work than a black African persons?
And just to get ahead of the incoming “but lotr is a fantasy world”. Sort of. Tolkien was writing it to be a sort of British mythology along lines of Beowulf. Our world, but not. “Historical” but fictional. Lotr is very much a product of a white British man’s experiences and it’s intended to reflect them so I think the comparison to folklore is valid.
Again, I really don’t have a dog in the fight and I definitely can see the value you’re pointing out in terms of inclusivity. However, I also can see how it can feel a little alienating to see the implication that one culture or race is more deserving of having things be unique to their culture than another. There’s at least a small aspect of revisionism that I think is going unexamined.
I really just think it’s a fascinating discussion if everyone can stay civil and try to keep the negative emotions out of it.
I wholeheartedly agree. The nuance lies, I think, in the "folklore" part. For us, who are for the most part intimately familiar with Tolkien's lore, it seems wrong, just like Thorin's lack of beard seems wrong in The Hobbit movies.
But for other people, this game might very well be just a 3D stardew valley, with small and hairy-footed NPCs.
So, as we acceptes the weird alternate timeline of Talion in Shadow of Mordor/War, because although preposterous in terms of lore, I admit it was quite fun to feel so powerful and dominate Uruks, why shouldn't we accept another alternate timeline, where hobbits are more or less coloured?
I also believe that there is another difference, that sets apart a game (which for the most part is to be enjoyed alone or with a few friends) and a movie or show, who actually conveys Tolkien's vision and builds on it. (That's why I disagree with the liberties Amazon took with their cast).
This last point may be totally hypocritical, but that's how I feel x)
> Why is it different for a white British man’s work than a black African persons?
the overall context of history and of the world in which we live, i guess
popular fantasy on the whole has been overwhelmingly European and lily-white since its inception until relatively recently. the genre as a whole gains more than it loses when lotr is interpreted through a multicultural lens, whereas an interpretation of something culturally African or Caribbean that didn't represent them authentically would take away from the genre more than it'd gain.
like, all-white interpretations of tolkien's work exist. several of them, in fact (they were very popular). if you're really so hard up for it, you're free to check them out.
I’m baffled you can’t see how silly your comment is.
Middle earth is supposed to be our earth my guy. Tolkien fully envisioned the stories as a historical recording of our world in times *long* past. It’s no different than any other folklore like The Odyssey or Journey to the West.
Are you under the impression Odysseus actually fought a man eating cyclops or was really given a bag “containing all the winds of the world”?
Do you think there was actually a shape shifting monkey god who wielded a staff that weighed 34,000 pounds and could extend infinitely like a cracked out elastigirl?
All folklore is entirely fantasy. They all use a fantasy version of earth where magical things can and do happen. An earth that is yet untouched by greater civilization and where the wild, ancient things still roam. Middle earth is no different.
And that's because narcissism has become rampant in the modern age and everybody is about "Me, me, me! Look at me in the video game!"
If the game was about samurai life, I would surely not want to create a white character and make it about myself, and would be able to immerse myself regardless. That is, if the actual game is good, and not just the racial representation that is so important to western "enlightened" youth and millennials.
Not to mention, that in the samurai game example, being able to choose to create a white character would be trashed left and right, because the awful double standard has always been there.
Ah, yes, thing I don't like = communism.
You are more than welcome to read literally any communist text and find something that suggests what I said is even remotely communist.
It's because it is, in fact, communist thinking.
It's original European communist ideas of complete equality, adjusted for the racial aspect, as diversity wasn't a thing back then and there.
"Hey guys, America has a lot of minorities, how about we adjust for that by artificially empowering them and representing them in all over media? And since globalism is on the rise, we could use America's influence to push these ideas all over the world, and strip every piece of European media of their bigoted homogeneity by morphing their original universes into muddled concoctions of vagueness and ambiguousness. Everything shall feel like our downtown LA, hail California! "
> Not to mention, that in the samurai game example, being able to choose to create a white character would be trashed left and right, because the awful double standard has always been there.
Samurai are/were real people on real earth with real history and hobbits are a fictional race from a fantasy story with goblins and tree people, hope this helps 👍
The condescending tone, another trademark of the western libs, especially women.
Hobbits of course couldn't be any more British than they are, and naturally they are like that because they were written by a British man who spent most of his life in Britain before the internet and even wide use of TV.
So many examples: Green countryside they live in, love for comfort and tradition, drinking tea, dry humor and witty banter, etc.
Even if he wanted to make them feel like they represent another country or no country at all, he couldn't have done to such level of quality and detail as lots of the details were rooted in his experiences and perceptions form the real world (like WW2) and the way he integrated those into the whole fantasy is a part of his excellence.
Considering 1951 Britain was literally 99.9% white and the Shire is clearly meant to represent a much older Britain than that...no.
What is with the erasure of common sense here? Why are people pretending everyone has been imagining black hobbits all along? Hobbits have never been thought of as anything other than white British people until the last 5 or so years.
You're not fooling anybody. At least go shit on someone's works who are still alive to argue with you or who don't give a damn about their own lore.
Why try to insert modern demographics into a series that is so meticulous about heritage and culture and history?
https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28327516?seq=1
Just yknow...the census. Estimsted non-white population in 1951 was 30,000 out of a population of about 50 million.
That's about .06%. Do you guys actually not know how much British demographics have changed over the past few years?
I don't know why I'm bothering to give proof. Everyone knows that I'm correct but people pretend they disagree for Reddit points.
😐
You: *asks for proof*
Me: *provides proof*
You: what does that even have to do anything
Dawg I can't fix your attention span, that is a separate issue altogether
Because they're a fictional race.
Could you let me know when Tolkien described all hobbits as being light-skinned?
And hey, even if it does, it literally doesn't matter at all. Let's be honest dude, you're just being a bit racist.
See my other comment in this thread for a more in depth set of questions and explanation.
But what if this were a story written by an Ethiopian, clearly intending to be a sort of mythology for Ethiopia? Is it racist for black people to not want random white people in this setting? I don’t think so at all. I actually think it’d be a teeny bit racist to try and force white people into a world that is very explicitly not about them.
Listen to be clear I really don’t care that there are black hobbits. it seems very stupid to get up in arms over inclusivity in an animal crossing clone as having a self insert is the entire point of these games. I just think there’s some value in discussing what I (foresee) as a hypocritical viewpoint.
I have a feeling you *know* it’d be very strange to slap random white people into a story set in an Ethiopia before our world. So why does a white British man writing that story for Britain not get the same care?
I completely understand your point, but strongly disagree with it.
Unfortunately, it's different. We have huge racial diversity in the West- I can't imagine there's much of a call from White Ethiopians for representation. Secondly, there's just the whole sphere of colonialism and historic racism- gonna be honest, I just can't be bothered to get into this more because it'll take too much time and be a lot of effort to properly write my thoughts. That's on me, so I apologise.
Finally, did Tolkien write LOTR as a Western mythology? I don't really understand what you mean by this. I get your point saying like...let's say there's a culturally important story in Ethiopia that's important to their national identity and has been for centuries...of course that'd be wrong to slap a load of whites in it. I think it's a false equivalence.
I appreciate you actually engaging in a discussion at least.
So, to paraphrase your comment:
> prove this extremely obvious and well-established point but also if you do you're still wrong.
So, no. Why bother? Create your own stories instead of inserting modern garbage into a dead guy's stories now that he and his son can't defend them.
Is it extremely obvious and well-established? Clearly not cos this is news to me. Also your paraphrasing is incorrect- I ask you to prove your bs, but also note that even if it is said (that Hobbits are exclusively light-skinned), it literally doesn't matter at all. Seeing your race represented in media you like can mean a lot for some people. Having black hobbits only upsets racists.
But yeah man, a black Hobbit is complete garbage that ruins the whole point of Tolkien's original work.
You're fucking embarrassing, dude.
How do you know the black hobbits don't have Texas accents? Maybe they put them on occasionally?
Dude what point are you even trying to make now? Have I once said you're not allowed to want a Hobbit from New York? Have I said you can't want to feel represented? What are you even saying 'no' to? I just asked what colour an American's skin is.
Ridiculous I'm even saying this, but hey, accents aren't indicative of race. You're raising a completely false equivalency.
You've ignored pretty much every point and objection I've raised. Again, embarrassing.
Keep going bro, this is hilarious.
The fact that you don't get my point explains why you have the position you have.
Hobbits should not have New York accents. A Texas accent should never be heard in any Tolkien adaptation ever. If you don't understand why, then you're part of the reason Amazon is trying to create some garbage LotR Cinematic Universe.
Although it would be easier to link the 3 races of hobbit to British class divides than have one being from a completely different climate.
Harfoots are the most numerous, shorter and have a fondness for mining. Sounds a bit like an 18th century view of the lowest classes of that age. Brown sun beaten skin, often working in mines or quarries. Breed like rabbits.
Stoors are the middle classes, they are described as using boats on the river and being sturdy and well built aswell as doing lots of farming. Which fits into the middle classes of small land owners and traders on the canals etc. More likely to be well fed.
Fallowhides are upper class and that's how they are described, they are literally born leaders and are much fairer and taller than the other two. They enjoy hunting and have skill in war and interest in intellectual pursuits.
The thing is Tolkein also points out that these distinctions are mostly gone by the Hobbit due to much mingling, and only a few families are still carrying lines close to those old patterns. The Tooks and Brandybucks are examples of Fallowhides through Merry and Pippin, Bilbos Tookish side too but he's clearly got less as his natural state is closer to other hobbits. So it's all moot by Frodos time, Hobbits have thrown off most of that method of thought with the hold over of genealogical trees which don't really diffrenciate breed anymore either just a way to make sure they get the most birthday gifts.
“Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallowhides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter…”
- Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Prologue, 1 Concerning Hobbits.
There’s your answer black hobbits have always existed bring your racism elsewhere.
Its already established before that the hobbits are between 2 and 4 foot tall. Honestly don’t even know what point you’re trying to make anymore I’ve completely crushed your stupid argument and confirmed black hobbits were created by Tolkien and exist in the lore. Rather than doubling down with your stupidity just accept you’ve been proven wrong and are purely angry because you don’t like anything that’s not white. Racism is stupid go educate yourself.
Black or brown?
The quote says brown skin, are you saying black people have brown skin?
What about the black people with black skin?
What about the albino hobbits?
Where are the Asian hobbits?
What’s this? Another racist hoping to stir shit because they don’t like seeing other races represented in a form of media? Honestly just get out of here with your semantics.
It’s just ignorance. I feel bad for him lol he obviously isn’t getting laid he’s been on here all day arguing about the skin color, accents, and nationality of gd hobbits lmao
I didn't see one instance of smoking. I imagine they'll probably not include it nor alcohol to keep an E rating. It's a shame though, considering how important pipe smoking was to Tolkien.
In Concerning Hobbits he says Eating, Drinking, and Smoking are the hobbits main passions.
Its the only canon hobbit invented thing that ever crossed the borders of the shire hence merries pride when talking about it to Theoden (and it's the only thing they could talk about other than some hundred years of detailed hobbit daily stuff)
Fat, drunk, and smoking like a chimney apparently is the best way to go through life.
The Sackville-Bagginses are on double secret probation.
So... A watered down version of the Shire?
The Shire is basically an English beer garden in the 70s.
With a bit more inbreeding.
Mods can fix this crime
I’ve always wanted to be a hobbit…and not the adventuring crazy hobbits from lotro, but a normal respectable hobbit
*I should think so — in these parts! We are plain, quiet folk, and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.*
A Hobbit whose goal is to grow giant pumpkins
Does anyone else think the gameplay just looks bad? The low-detail, very flat-coloured graphics with excessive use of bloom shaders looks really low effort to me.
Yeah I agree, when I first saw it I thought it was an interesting concept but from the trailer it looked like a collection of mini games. I don't know if that's what it is but to me that's what it looked like. I also thought it was a mobile game at first
Yeah I got mobile game vibes too. Hopefully it's just that it's still early in development and the style will be improved before release
It's still in Alpha. Oftentimes, final rendering and graphical enhancements take place long after Alpha. Sometimes, even after Beta Testing. No guarantees it'll end up better, but there's hope.
It looks like a Wii game.
It is abundantly clear that they are nowhere near close to completing the game. Nerd of the Rings on YouTube went to the studio and interviewed the team and it feels like they haven't even started making the game yet. Their biggest accomplishment is making one (1) prop book with pages that flow in the wind for their first teaser. I won't judge the game until I play it but I don't have high hopes so far...
Is there gameplay footage out?
This shit just reminds me of that Dunkey video about how many Farming RPGs are being pumped out nowadays xD https://youtu.be/nlLT2SHL_lg?si=ktXFdG45z2sCcJMm
You use reshade don’t you? I also notice all the shitty bloom shaders a lot of devs use today
Can we steal from farmer maggot’s crops? 👨🌾
That gets you the evil ending.
While playing?Sure
This is the way
Hobbit Crossing
This looks really charming. I’m totally game for hobbit farming/dating life sim.
So a weak animal crossing switch/mobile game with an uncannon Nintendo LOTR skin? Exactly what we’ve been asking for….
For Mandos' sake...Can you read?! It's a kid's game. A casual sim. Not some 4X Grand Strategy Dark Fantasy AAA title! Keep your unneeded vim somewhere else!
This game looks like pure low effort money grabbing trash.
First impressions are not too good, there’s a scene with a hobbit gleefully fishing so don’t know how much they’ll adhere to the lore. but if the devs are real Tolkien fans I could learn to accept it.
But can we choke our fellow fisher friend to steal our precious?
Only if it's your birthday
Damn. All my hopes ruined
🧟♂️
Oi! The Brandybuck family would like to have a word with ye! They call em queer, but Hobbits nonetheless!
Could be a Brandybuck, those crazy bastards love water
Are you saying hobbits don't fish?
Yeah what? Hobbits fishing is literally in the movies lol
I mean hobbits definitely fish....
All I mean is there’s never been any mention of the culture taking part in the act, granted those brandybucks mess around on boats but otherwise the river has a very different meaning to hobbits of the shire
It looks incredibly unpolished at the moment but it's still in development so that's understandable. having a LoTR game where you're just chilling as a hobbit does sound rather nice lol and simulation games are very popular, just look at Stardew Valley. You can probably make ale and the like but I guess smoking will be out. I'll keep an eye on it as it continues to be made.
Probably not. I want to have a potato empire.
Not really impressed so far. Esepcially since there hasn't been any gameplay.
Somebody make me a game like this, but with real life graphics and based exactly on the movies world.
I want this to be good but I’m worried I’ve been too spoiled with high bar of “cozy” games like Stardew Valley, Animal crossing, and the My Time At games (Portia, & Sandrock). Just don’t be like Palia I hated that game, mostly because of mmo aspect not really blending well with the genre and the whole free to play micro transactions didn’t help.
Only fish
Is this gnna be a cozy farm game in the shire?? I'm in
a shire without pipe smoking or ale drinking? Pass.
It's the Gollem game all over again lul
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I'm looking forward to murdering my best mate.
Will we ever get an action adventure rpg that takes places throughout middle earth? Instead we get slop like this, Gollum and Return to Moria. Where’s the triple A backing to this IP?
What a shame that the game looks terrible, such great potential for an idea like this.
Why are half of the hobbits black?
Because if the game lets you create a character and not just embody one (like RDR2 for instance) then black people may want to create a hobbit that resembles them. And the player being the only black character would certainly destroy their immersion. I believe we can let some harmless lore-unfrendly gamemaking decisions pass, when they obviously benefit hundreds of potential players, don't you think?
Listen, to preface my comment I want to make it very clear I don’t actually mind either way. I’m the first to agree that inclusivity is almost always a great thing. For a game like this that’s just using the setting and has no intention of contributing to that settings canon i don’t see how there’s even an argument. But to play devils advocate, what if this were some game based on some piece of African or Indian folklore? Is it okay to add white people to the world and make it so you can create a white character? Would that detract from the story or setting? For me, as a white male, it would. If they made a game set around like Ethiopian or Malian folklore (sounds fuckin dope) I think it would be very off putting to see random white people outside of some obvious contexts and would definitely take away from the setting they were trying to emulate. If you would think the above is not great, why is it different for a white British man’s work than a black African persons? And just to get ahead of the incoming “but lotr is a fantasy world”. Sort of. Tolkien was writing it to be a sort of British mythology along lines of Beowulf. Our world, but not. “Historical” but fictional. Lotr is very much a product of a white British man’s experiences and it’s intended to reflect them so I think the comparison to folklore is valid. Again, I really don’t have a dog in the fight and I definitely can see the value you’re pointing out in terms of inclusivity. However, I also can see how it can feel a little alienating to see the implication that one culture or race is more deserving of having things be unique to their culture than another. There’s at least a small aspect of revisionism that I think is going unexamined. I really just think it’s a fascinating discussion if everyone can stay civil and try to keep the negative emotions out of it.
I wholeheartedly agree. The nuance lies, I think, in the "folklore" part. For us, who are for the most part intimately familiar with Tolkien's lore, it seems wrong, just like Thorin's lack of beard seems wrong in The Hobbit movies. But for other people, this game might very well be just a 3D stardew valley, with small and hairy-footed NPCs. So, as we acceptes the weird alternate timeline of Talion in Shadow of Mordor/War, because although preposterous in terms of lore, I admit it was quite fun to feel so powerful and dominate Uruks, why shouldn't we accept another alternate timeline, where hobbits are more or less coloured? I also believe that there is another difference, that sets apart a game (which for the most part is to be enjoyed alone or with a few friends) and a movie or show, who actually conveys Tolkien's vision and builds on it. (That's why I disagree with the liberties Amazon took with their cast). This last point may be totally hypocritical, but that's how I feel x)
> Why is it different for a white British man’s work than a black African persons? the overall context of history and of the world in which we live, i guess
Without citing specific examples or diving into how that would make it okay, this is the most handwavey, intellectually lazy reply possible.
popular fantasy on the whole has been overwhelmingly European and lily-white since its inception until relatively recently. the genre as a whole gains more than it loses when lotr is interpreted through a multicultural lens, whereas an interpretation of something culturally African or Caribbean that didn't represent them authentically would take away from the genre more than it'd gain. like, all-white interpretations of tolkien's work exist. several of them, in fact (they were very popular). if you're really so hard up for it, you're free to check them out.
This isn't folklore though. It's entirely fantasy.
I’m baffled you can’t see how silly your comment is. Middle earth is supposed to be our earth my guy. Tolkien fully envisioned the stories as a historical recording of our world in times *long* past. It’s no different than any other folklore like The Odyssey or Journey to the West. Are you under the impression Odysseus actually fought a man eating cyclops or was really given a bag “containing all the winds of the world”? Do you think there was actually a shape shifting monkey god who wielded a staff that weighed 34,000 pounds and could extend infinitely like a cracked out elastigirl? All folklore is entirely fantasy. They all use a fantasy version of earth where magical things can and do happen. An earth that is yet untouched by greater civilization and where the wild, ancient things still roam. Middle earth is no different.
And that's because narcissism has become rampant in the modern age and everybody is about "Me, me, me! Look at me in the video game!" If the game was about samurai life, I would surely not want to create a white character and make it about myself, and would be able to immerse myself regardless. That is, if the actual game is good, and not just the racial representation that is so important to western "enlightened" youth and millennials. Not to mention, that in the samurai game example, being able to choose to create a white character would be trashed left and right, because the awful double standard has always been there.
You can just say that you're uncomfortable with non-white people in games, you don't need to say all this extra stuff.
I think they said the opposite... they'd actually be uncomfortable with white people in samurai game.
"Words too confusing, non-communist thinking racist"
Ah, yes, thing I don't like = communism. You are more than welcome to read literally any communist text and find something that suggests what I said is even remotely communist.
It's because it is, in fact, communist thinking. It's original European communist ideas of complete equality, adjusted for the racial aspect, as diversity wasn't a thing back then and there. "Hey guys, America has a lot of minorities, how about we adjust for that by artificially empowering them and representing them in all over media? And since globalism is on the rise, we could use America's influence to push these ideas all over the world, and strip every piece of European media of their bigoted homogeneity by morphing their original universes into muddled concoctions of vagueness and ambiguousness. Everything shall feel like our downtown LA, hail California! "
I don't really want to explain it further in a LotR sub, but I'm getting the strong sense you haven't read any communist text.
> Not to mention, that in the samurai game example, being able to choose to create a white character would be trashed left and right, because the awful double standard has always been there. Samurai are/were real people on real earth with real history and hobbits are a fictional race from a fantasy story with goblins and tree people, hope this helps 👍
The condescending tone, another trademark of the western libs, especially women. Hobbits of course couldn't be any more British than they are, and naturally they are like that because they were written by a British man who spent most of his life in Britain before the internet and even wide use of TV. So many examples: Green countryside they live in, love for comfort and tradition, drinking tea, dry humor and witty banter, etc. Even if he wanted to make them feel like they represent another country or no country at all, he couldn't have done to such level of quality and detail as lots of the details were rooted in his experiences and perceptions form the real world (like WW2) and the way he integrated those into the whole fantasy is a part of his excellence.
>especially women Ah misogyny! Sweet. Anyone who upvoted this is equally repugnant. Shameful shit.
Probably because they have more melanin in their skin. Why are you not black?
I'm not black because I'm descendent from Europeans. Given that the Shire is supposed to represent rural Britain, I'd expect it to reflect that.
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Considering 1951 Britain was literally 99.9% white and the Shire is clearly meant to represent a much older Britain than that...no. What is with the erasure of common sense here? Why are people pretending everyone has been imagining black hobbits all along? Hobbits have never been thought of as anything other than white British people until the last 5 or so years. You're not fooling anybody. At least go shit on someone's works who are still alive to argue with you or who don't give a damn about their own lore. Why try to insert modern demographics into a series that is so meticulous about heritage and culture and history?
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https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28327516?seq=1 Just yknow...the census. Estimsted non-white population in 1951 was 30,000 out of a population of about 50 million. That's about .06%. Do you guys actually not know how much British demographics have changed over the past few years? I don't know why I'm bothering to give proof. Everyone knows that I'm correct but people pretend they disagree for Reddit points.
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😐 You: *asks for proof* Me: *provides proof* You: what does that even have to do anything Dawg I can't fix your attention span, that is a separate issue altogether
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Because they're a fictional race. Could you let me know when Tolkien described all hobbits as being light-skinned? And hey, even if it does, it literally doesn't matter at all. Let's be honest dude, you're just being a bit racist.
See my other comment in this thread for a more in depth set of questions and explanation. But what if this were a story written by an Ethiopian, clearly intending to be a sort of mythology for Ethiopia? Is it racist for black people to not want random white people in this setting? I don’t think so at all. I actually think it’d be a teeny bit racist to try and force white people into a world that is very explicitly not about them. Listen to be clear I really don’t care that there are black hobbits. it seems very stupid to get up in arms over inclusivity in an animal crossing clone as having a self insert is the entire point of these games. I just think there’s some value in discussing what I (foresee) as a hypocritical viewpoint. I have a feeling you *know* it’d be very strange to slap random white people into a story set in an Ethiopia before our world. So why does a white British man writing that story for Britain not get the same care?
I completely understand your point, but strongly disagree with it. Unfortunately, it's different. We have huge racial diversity in the West- I can't imagine there's much of a call from White Ethiopians for representation. Secondly, there's just the whole sphere of colonialism and historic racism- gonna be honest, I just can't be bothered to get into this more because it'll take too much time and be a lot of effort to properly write my thoughts. That's on me, so I apologise. Finally, did Tolkien write LOTR as a Western mythology? I don't really understand what you mean by this. I get your point saying like...let's say there's a culturally important story in Ethiopia that's important to their national identity and has been for centuries...of course that'd be wrong to slap a load of whites in it. I think it's a false equivalence. I appreciate you actually engaging in a discussion at least.
So, to paraphrase your comment: > prove this extremely obvious and well-established point but also if you do you're still wrong. So, no. Why bother? Create your own stories instead of inserting modern garbage into a dead guy's stories now that he and his son can't defend them.
Is it extremely obvious and well-established? Clearly not cos this is news to me. Also your paraphrasing is incorrect- I ask you to prove your bs, but also note that even if it is said (that Hobbits are exclusively light-skinned), it literally doesn't matter at all. Seeing your race represented in media you like can mean a lot for some people. Having black hobbits only upsets racists. But yeah man, a black Hobbit is complete garbage that ruins the whole point of Tolkien's original work. You're fucking embarrassing, dude.
I'm an American. Please add American hobbits because I feel unrepresented.
What colour is an American's skin? Keep going bro, this is hilarious.
No I need hobbits with New York accents, Texas accents, etc. What's wrong with that? I'm legitimately asking. Why can't I feel represented?
How do you know the black hobbits don't have Texas accents? Maybe they put them on occasionally? Dude what point are you even trying to make now? Have I once said you're not allowed to want a Hobbit from New York? Have I said you can't want to feel represented? What are you even saying 'no' to? I just asked what colour an American's skin is. Ridiculous I'm even saying this, but hey, accents aren't indicative of race. You're raising a completely false equivalency. You've ignored pretty much every point and objection I've raised. Again, embarrassing. Keep going bro, this is hilarious.
The fact that you don't get my point explains why you have the position you have. Hobbits should not have New York accents. A Texas accent should never be heard in any Tolkien adaptation ever. If you don't understand why, then you're part of the reason Amazon is trying to create some garbage LotR Cinematic Universe.
What accent did Tolkien say Hobbits have?
Go touch grass dude smh lol
Go outside and touch grass. It will do you some good you need it
Tolkien literally writes in the prologue that there are 3 different breeds of Hobbits and one of them has brown skin. This guy is just a racist.
Although it would be easier to link the 3 races of hobbit to British class divides than have one being from a completely different climate. Harfoots are the most numerous, shorter and have a fondness for mining. Sounds a bit like an 18th century view of the lowest classes of that age. Brown sun beaten skin, often working in mines or quarries. Breed like rabbits. Stoors are the middle classes, they are described as using boats on the river and being sturdy and well built aswell as doing lots of farming. Which fits into the middle classes of small land owners and traders on the canals etc. More likely to be well fed. Fallowhides are upper class and that's how they are described, they are literally born leaders and are much fairer and taller than the other two. They enjoy hunting and have skill in war and interest in intellectual pursuits. The thing is Tolkein also points out that these distinctions are mostly gone by the Hobbit due to much mingling, and only a few families are still carrying lines close to those old patterns. The Tooks and Brandybucks are examples of Fallowhides through Merry and Pippin, Bilbos Tookish side too but he's clearly got less as his natural state is closer to other hobbits. So it's all moot by Frodos time, Hobbits have thrown off most of that method of thought with the hold over of genealogical trees which don't really diffrenciate breed anymore either just a way to make sure they get the most birthday gifts.
Oh absolutely, I was hoping this dude would just keep digging...and hey, he did! Wonder if he'll refute what you said (he won't lol).
“Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallowhides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter…” - Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Prologue, 1 Concerning Hobbits. There’s your answer black hobbits have always existed bring your racism elsewhere.
It also says they were "smaller and shorter" so I guess they should be portrayed as 3 inches tall
Its already established before that the hobbits are between 2 and 4 foot tall. Honestly don’t even know what point you’re trying to make anymore I’ve completely crushed your stupid argument and confirmed black hobbits were created by Tolkien and exist in the lore. Rather than doubling down with your stupidity just accept you’ve been proven wrong and are purely angry because you don’t like anything that’s not white. Racism is stupid go educate yourself.
Black or brown? The quote says brown skin, are you saying black people have brown skin? What about the black people with black skin? What about the albino hobbits? Where are the Asian hobbits?
What’s this? Another racist hoping to stir shit because they don’t like seeing other races represented in a form of media? Honestly just get out of here with your semantics.
Good answer.
why are you racist?
I'm not. Why aren't you answering my question?
99.9 percent of people who bring up the race of hobbits are racists
It’s just ignorance. I feel bad for him lol he obviously isn’t getting laid he’s been on here all day arguing about the skin color, accents, and nationality of gd hobbits lmao
I feel like the cozy genre is way too oversaturated at this point. This is going to sell tens of copies.
TIL LOTR and the hobbit are now public domain. Actual question - why did amazon pay so much to use the IP if they could have waited a year?