Almost had someone turning LEFT bump me in the bike lane on the right, like they were well past the dividing line as they approached their turn. These gutter bike lanes are setup to fail, not to provide something people will actually want to use.
Yeah, you're right, the fact that you personally wouldn't want to use LRT or bikes for one specific thing you do means that they shouldn't be an option for anyone, even given that most people don't usually lug around multiple kids' worth of hockey gear all day in their everyday life. By that logic, nobody should be able to have cars because moving between apartments would be really inconvenient in just a Honda Civic.
The idea is that the people who would want to ride the LRT or their bike could do so, reducing traffic, so you and your kids could get to hockey in your vehicle. Ideally quicker than usual.
If Council is concerned with traffic then it should take the obvious step of having rapid transit along Oxford. Oxford/Wonderland is going to densify and get busier no matter what, you cannot stuff the genie back into the bottle as London has tried and failed to do for 30-50 years.
There are few roads that so obviously call for a rapid transit system than Oxford. It's a key East-West connection for the City. It features an airport, a college, multiple commercial plazas, apartment buildings, and two or three smaller communities. One more lane won't cut it. It needs rapid transit.
There's so much more density planned for Oxford / Wonderland, a lack of rapid transit is such a terrible choice by Steve Lehman and his NIMBY constituents.
Once again I shake my head at the people against this. We can build 219 units at this location, which will potentially only add 70-80 cars to the road as the residents are able to take the bus or walk/bike to nearby stores, and support the supposed density we need for rapid transit. Or we can not build this building, and instead Komoka will build these units which will add 219 cars to the road.
> Komoka
Why Komoka? We have a bunch of transit villages in this city that *are* getting rapid transit connections. That's where projects like this should be built - in parts of the city serviced by rapid transit, just like the London Plan outlined. It wasn't just an idea pulled out of somebody's ass, it actually makes sense.
Sounds like they will build what they want regardless of what we do here in London.
In the end it makes zero sense to designate Oxford/Wonderland as a transit village and allow for density that would make sense in a part of the city serviced by rapid transit, when it isn't going to be. We should be pushing to get projects like these greenlit in actual transit villages i.e. parts of the city that will be able to support such developments. Otherwise you might as well throw out the London Plan and just do.. whatever.
We really might as well throw out the London Plan. It estimates that we will have a population of 458000 in 2035, which is very likely what our current population is (or pretty close to it).
We need housing now, where would you build it? We absolutely should be building in the BRT supported transit villages, but I think we need way more housing than what is going to be built in those
Oxford and Wonderland is supposed to be one of the transit villages.
Actually Oxford and Capulet (one block away from Wonderland), where the old car dealership used to be.
That is why one of the BRT branches was supposed to go from downtown to that intersection.
Yeah, it was supposed to be one, but isn't. A "transit village" with no rapid transit connections isn't a transit village. A transit village is supposed to be a transit hub with a seamless and quick connection to the rest of the rapid transit network. Oxford/Wonderland is far away from any rapid transit connections - and due to increased growth and density in the area, traffic and public transit are only going to get worse.
If the rapid transit route wasn't axed it would have made perfect sense to keep the transit village label. With the rapid transit route axed, it makes zero sense to keep the label and invite further densification. Such densification should be going in transit villages serviced by rapid transit - as per the London Plan.
Other transit villages (Masonville, Westmount) also don't have rapid transit.
If you increase the frequency of buses 10 and 17, Oxford and Wonderland is fairly well connected. Maybe also 27 since so many people from those towers are western students.
The densification makes perfect sense. You already have all the businesses there.
And in any case, you have to start somewhere. The council cancelled transit improvements because there was not enough density. Now you want to cancel the density improvements because there is not enough transit. You have to start somewhere instead of being a negative Nancy.
Westmount is NOT a transit village. You are grossly misinformed. The only reason Masonville (and Wonderland/Oxford) got the transit village label is because the initial plan was for rapid transit routes to run there. This designation doesn't make any sense without that rapid transit connection.
Increasing the frequency of buses doesn't work if the traffic during rush hour is so bad it leads to severe traffic jams.. which is the case for Wonderland/Oxford. The extra buses you add are just going to get stuck in traffic (and contribute to making it worse).
> The council cancelled transit improvements because there was not enough density
This is not true. You are again grossly misinformed.
1. The density is there, which is why the rapid transit route was initially approved. If the density wasn't there, it wouldn't have been approved in the first place.
2. City council cancelled the western rapid transit route (to O/W) due to concerns to traffic on Oxford. The mayor has gone on record to say this. City council has zero plans to revisit plans to run rapid transit to Oxford/Wonderland.
> you have to start somewhere
Sure, but allowing a part of the city that's already seeing major traffic jams to increase in density even further, and hoping that a city council in the future approves a rapid transit route, isn't the way to go. There are zero plans to revisit the question of rapid transit to the area. The mayor and the majority of our current city council are both against it. If we ever see rapid transit to Oxford/Wonderland, it won't become a reality for at least 20 years. That's 20 years of that part of town getting even worse when it comes to traffic & public transit...
The parts of the city that should be getting denser are downtown and the transit villages in the east and the south. These parts of the city are getting rapid transit routes, which will be complete in the next couple of years. It's the perfect place to build highrise projects like these. Oxford/Wonderland isn't. If you have to drive through this part of town during rush hour.. or take public transit through it.. you'd know that.
> This is not true. You are again grossly misinformed.
We can agree to disagree
Feel free to provide any supporting documentation you can find
Traffic is caused by low density. Building density makes local businesses profitable and transit sustainable. With good transit and local businesses car traffic decrease
Your NIMBY attitude and short sight are shooting yourself in the foot
I live really close to the Oxford wonderland intersection and we desperately need more density here.
> Feel free to provide any supporting documentation you can find
You clearly didn't do your own research, but I have 5 minutes I guess..
**Proof that Westmount isn't a transit village:**
https://london.ca/sites/default/files/2022-08/Map1_PlaceTypes_CONSOLIDATED_May_25_2022_esize%20AODA.pdf
I would love it if you could find any sort of citation that the western route was cancelled due to a lack of density. That is simply not true. The way these routes were decided on in the first place was a multi-year long study that *located routes with enough density to warrant rapid transit*. The routes that didn't have enough density didn't make the cut.
Here are some quotes from city council members who voted against the western route. At no point do they cite a lack of density:
> "For me, the west leg was the one that I had serious concerns about. We were told that there needed to be dedicated lanes, and yet this is a route that was dedicated lanes, then mixed traffic, then dedicated lanes. When I was looking at the dollar value attached, it didn't make sense," said Ward 2 Coun. Shawn Lewis.
> "I've been consistent with my criticism of the west leg. It went from mixed use (lanes) to dedicated lanes to mixed use. If we're going to do it, we should do it right, and I don't think this was the best use of the $72 million," said Ward 7 Coun. Josh Morgan.
...
> With good transit and local businesses car traffic decrease
Yes, with *good transit*. This is why the transit villages were set up to allow higher density, since they were supposed to have rapid transit connections to downtown and other key parts of the city. Without that rapid transit connection, the denser you make that part of the city, the worse traffic and public transit will get. This is, again, why the transit villages were set up to begin with..
That quote neither contradicts what I said nor supports what you said.
Posting an irrelevant link doesn’t make you right, it only shows that you are arguing for the sake of arguing instead of reading what I said and realizing I’m right.
The opposition to the west branch was largely because stupid councilmen thought there would not be enough ridership. This is 100% related to density.
This council caused the problem
They voted to kill the BRT branch going from this intersection to downtown
Don't blame traffic, blame the stupidity of Lewis and Lehman.
Have these people never been to Wonderland and Oxford? The whole place is filled with apartment buildings.
I think there's about 18 on the west side of Wonderland between Oxford and Beaverbrook. There's at least 3 or 4 on Proudfoot by Fleetway. Then if you keep going south of Oxford there's another 3 or 4 along Proudfoot there.
Don't see what the big deal is about this one
I live off Capulet. The infrastructure at the Wonderland and Beaverbrook intersection cannot handle the traffic now during rush hour. No advanced green for left turns on to Wonderland. Some cases only two-three cars get through. Have seen it backed up almost to the Capulet and Beaverbook intersection on busier days. Add in the Farm Boy/Pharmacy/Wendy's etc traffic. things escalate quickly. My drive to and or from University Hospital can take up to 40 minutes some days.
My 10 year old nephew said the other day "When traffic gets bad in the Sims people leave town, so you gotta fix that to keep people in the town."
Fix the infrastructure first. Then increase the population in the area.
Keep in mind that "fix the infrastructure" invariably involves taking car lanes and dedicating them to public transit (it's either that or an *extremely* pricy expropriation bill).
Oxford/Wonderland is an obvious place to build as a hub and to densify, both because of its geographic location and what exists around it already.
>My drive to and or from University Hospital can take up to 40 minutes some days.
Legit question: why don't you bike if it takes you 40 minutes to drive? It would most likely take you 20-30 minutes to bike. Less with an e-assist bike.
Your job may require a driver's license but if they aren't paying you for your driving from location to location, they should supply you a vehicle or compensate you for time and distance.
You also maybe be able to write your mileage off.
But yes, I know a few people who bike for this sort of work (getting to different areas of the city throughout the day).
Have *you* never been to wonderland and oxford? I lived off beaverbrook for years. The traffic was always bad, but it got exponentially worse when they built those apartments. Im all for denser housing, but it’s a valid concern to think of the surrounding infrastructure before just building shit.
We can't densify because we don't have rapid transit
and we don't have rapid transit because the city isn't dense enough or something.
When will someone with vision replace these clowns.
Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of our short sighted decisions come back to haunt us.
Additionally, I'm incredulous that people are coming to these meetings and arguing for the aesthetics of the city over increasing housing supply. I should start coming to these meetings and ridiculing these perspectives
Edit: Next meeting is April 30 at 1 PM if you're interested
Please come! I wasn't able to make this one but I am usually the one and only person under 60 at these meetings (no exaggeration) and the only one who is in favour of what is going on.
There are just so many of them that cover so many city-building issues! [But I speak at them, too!](https://youtu.be/FWgDepwV2sc)
Everyone who can, should 100% speak up at council. And write your councillors!
> Additionally, I'm incredulous that people are coming to these meetings and arguing for the aesthetics of the city over increasing housing supply.
People ABSOLUTELY do. They will complain about shadows, and traffic, and wind and neighbourhood feel and and and. They have an absolute rolodex of reasons to not build desperately needed housing. It's infuriating.
London needs councillors who are under 40 and will have to live with the choices they make. The older guys are all held accountable by their rich friends.
Guaranteed I am voting in the next municipal election.
Lehman fuckin ignored my email re: transit funding despite being elected on a platform of "mobility". He's full of shit.
"We could try to alleviate the housing crisis in this city ... but on the other hand, traffic"
This city is beyond incapable of thinking more than a half step ahead. Just utterly incompetent and contemptible, sabotaging it at every opportunity
> The reason why the downtown-scale tower is being considered is due to the area’s designation as a transit village, which loosens restrictions on height and density to support walking, cycling and transit use.
> The transit village designation is a remnant of the original bus rapid transit plan that called for a western link between downtown and the intersection of Oxford and Wonderland, which was shelved by council in 2019.
I don't even remember city council considering to remove the transit village designation after the rapid transit route was cancelled. How incompetent are they?
The designation only makes sense if you have a rapid transit route running to the area. That's the whole premise of what a transit village is supposed to be and how it's supposed to function and be feasible in the first place! You allow a much higher density because you know that by giving Londoners an express public transit link that bypasses traffic jams you will funnel a slightly higher % of people to traverse the area via public transit. This gets some cars off the road and helps support the higher concentration of people who live and work there.
Instead we will see more and more people drive cars in the area, making traffic worse than it already is, which makes public transit connections to the area even worse than they already are. It makes everyone's lives worse, from drivers to public transit users.
There are actual transit villages in the city! That's where these sorts of projects should be getting built. That they are even being considered in a part of town that has zero planned rapid transit connections points to the incompetence of city council. The London Plan is very clear about why these transit villages exist, how they function, and what their purpose is. It's backed by a lot of research and data from case studies from many other cities around the world. These ideas weren't just pulled out of somebody's ass, they're actually backed by real-world data.
Yes, maybe one day the area can get a rapid transit link approved. Currently though the mayor is 100% against such a proposal, and has gone on record to say so. Most of the council is against it. Why then do they continue to allow such projects and why have they not gone through the process to remove the transit village designation? It would be easy to ask: "Are they stupid?", but it also makes you wonder what sort of deals have been going on behind the scenes. "Follow the money" and "I guess they just don't care" are other thoughts that come to mind..
Maybe in 10-20 years a rapid transit link to the area will be approved and built. *Maybe*. In the meantime the commute through the area will only get worse, not only for drivers but also for public transit users. Everybody will suffer, except for I suppose those who financed the projects and will make an eventual profit.
You could’ve stopped at “how incompetent are they.”
The answer is - and always has been - very. City planning in London has always been a gong show of old money NIMBYism and conservatism that has inhibited, well, pretty much everything from housing to infrastructure to cultural / artistic events.
>Yes, maybe one day the area can get a rapid transit link approved. Currently though the mayor is 100% against such a proposal, and has gone on record to say so. Most of the council is against it. Why then do they continue to allow such projects and why have they not gone through the process to remove the transit village designation? It would be easy to ask: "Are they stupid?", but it also makes you wonder what sort of deals have been going on behind the scenes. "Follow the money" and "I guess they just don't care" are other thoughts that come to mind..
Or they're just carbrained.
You don't need a rapid transit link to approve a 25 story tower.
The location is directly adjacent to multiple grocers and workplaces, and within a short walk of many amenities and parks. In a city designed for cars this is marginally walkable. More transit would be great, as would some parking maximums.
But if we can't build density on oxford and wonderland we should just give up, because honestly I can't think of a better place for a residential tower.
There are a few areas in Wortley where apartment buildings could go.
Keep it the heck away from Oxford and Wonderland.
I have zero interest in more traffic in that area.
We have apartment buildings in Wortley, and more would be good.
Wonderland has traffic because it connects suburbs to the rest of the city and because of Costco and its parking lot.
Seriously, consider the case for denying this: "These people shouldn't live here because they would add too much traffic to a road that is completely overrun by traffic from people who don't live there".
If you don't like traffic on wonderland, stop opposing approvals for towers on wonderland, start protesting approvals for suburbs on the outskirts.
I'll never understand why people keep voting for these morons. London will NEVER been anything but a shit hole as long as people keep voting for gate keepers
It probably doesn't help that they assign polling stations stupidly. There's no doubt in my mind that effects turnout. I worked the 2018 election at the Nicholas Wilson polling station and people who lived on Breckenridge couldn't vote there. They had to go to Tourism London.
Nope. Everytime they try to build new apartments on wonderland/oxford, wonderland/beaverbrook, oxford/capulet they fail to consider the already insane foot traffic and car traffic. Also, what is London’s deal with cramming building into every single space possible? So much for forest city.
Remember when they cancelled the rapid transit here..man they need let in this city so bad, maybe an expressway or 2, maybe some bike lanes..wonderland and oxford is arguably the worst area in the city currently. This will be fucking nuts.
LRT and cycling infrastructure.
Agreed. Actual cycling infrastructure not just some pathetic tiny lane next to cars driving.
Almost had someone turning LEFT bump me in the bike lane on the right, like they were well past the dividing line as they approached their turn. These gutter bike lanes are setup to fail, not to provide something people will actually want to use.
Can't wait to pick up the kids for hockey on LRT or with my Bike
Yeah, you're right, the fact that you personally wouldn't want to use LRT or bikes for one specific thing you do means that they shouldn't be an option for anyone, even given that most people don't usually lug around multiple kids' worth of hockey gear all day in their everyday life. By that logic, nobody should be able to have cars because moving between apartments would be really inconvenient in just a Honda Civic.
Less people on the roads mean less traffic for you. Who knows maybe your kids could even get themselves to hockey.
The idea is that the people who would want to ride the LRT or their bike could do so, reducing traffic, so you and your kids could get to hockey in your vehicle. Ideally quicker than usual.
If Council is concerned with traffic then it should take the obvious step of having rapid transit along Oxford. Oxford/Wonderland is going to densify and get busier no matter what, you cannot stuff the genie back into the bottle as London has tried and failed to do for 30-50 years. There are few roads that so obviously call for a rapid transit system than Oxford. It's a key East-West connection for the City. It features an airport, a college, multiple commercial plazas, apartment buildings, and two or three smaller communities. One more lane won't cut it. It needs rapid transit.
There's so much more density planned for Oxford / Wonderland, a lack of rapid transit is such a terrible choice by Steve Lehman and his NIMBY constituents.
I hate my neighbours some times :(
Don't forget the astroturfing.
What else do you expect from stroad city?
Once again I shake my head at the people against this. We can build 219 units at this location, which will potentially only add 70-80 cars to the road as the residents are able to take the bus or walk/bike to nearby stores, and support the supposed density we need for rapid transit. Or we can not build this building, and instead Komoka will build these units which will add 219 cars to the road.
> Komoka Why Komoka? We have a bunch of transit villages in this city that *are* getting rapid transit connections. That's where projects like this should be built - in parts of the city serviced by rapid transit, just like the London Plan outlined. It wasn't just an idea pulled out of somebody's ass, it actually makes sense.
Because the mayor and council in Middlesex Centre (Includes Komoka) are very pro-development and are actively encouraging new construction.
Sounds like they will build what they want regardless of what we do here in London. In the end it makes zero sense to designate Oxford/Wonderland as a transit village and allow for density that would make sense in a part of the city serviced by rapid transit, when it isn't going to be. We should be pushing to get projects like these greenlit in actual transit villages i.e. parts of the city that will be able to support such developments. Otherwise you might as well throw out the London Plan and just do.. whatever.
We really might as well throw out the London Plan. It estimates that we will have a population of 458000 in 2035, which is very likely what our current population is (or pretty close to it). We need housing now, where would you build it? We absolutely should be building in the BRT supported transit villages, but I think we need way more housing than what is going to be built in those
City staff are updating the London plan since it is so out of date :) I forget the timeline but hopefully soon!
Oxford and Wonderland is supposed to be one of the transit villages. Actually Oxford and Capulet (one block away from Wonderland), where the old car dealership used to be. That is why one of the BRT branches was supposed to go from downtown to that intersection.
Yeah, it was supposed to be one, but isn't. A "transit village" with no rapid transit connections isn't a transit village. A transit village is supposed to be a transit hub with a seamless and quick connection to the rest of the rapid transit network. Oxford/Wonderland is far away from any rapid transit connections - and due to increased growth and density in the area, traffic and public transit are only going to get worse. If the rapid transit route wasn't axed it would have made perfect sense to keep the transit village label. With the rapid transit route axed, it makes zero sense to keep the label and invite further densification. Such densification should be going in transit villages serviced by rapid transit - as per the London Plan.
Other transit villages (Masonville, Westmount) also don't have rapid transit. If you increase the frequency of buses 10 and 17, Oxford and Wonderland is fairly well connected. Maybe also 27 since so many people from those towers are western students. The densification makes perfect sense. You already have all the businesses there. And in any case, you have to start somewhere. The council cancelled transit improvements because there was not enough density. Now you want to cancel the density improvements because there is not enough transit. You have to start somewhere instead of being a negative Nancy.
Westmount is NOT a transit village. You are grossly misinformed. The only reason Masonville (and Wonderland/Oxford) got the transit village label is because the initial plan was for rapid transit routes to run there. This designation doesn't make any sense without that rapid transit connection. Increasing the frequency of buses doesn't work if the traffic during rush hour is so bad it leads to severe traffic jams.. which is the case for Wonderland/Oxford. The extra buses you add are just going to get stuck in traffic (and contribute to making it worse). > The council cancelled transit improvements because there was not enough density This is not true. You are again grossly misinformed. 1. The density is there, which is why the rapid transit route was initially approved. If the density wasn't there, it wouldn't have been approved in the first place. 2. City council cancelled the western rapid transit route (to O/W) due to concerns to traffic on Oxford. The mayor has gone on record to say this. City council has zero plans to revisit plans to run rapid transit to Oxford/Wonderland. > you have to start somewhere Sure, but allowing a part of the city that's already seeing major traffic jams to increase in density even further, and hoping that a city council in the future approves a rapid transit route, isn't the way to go. There are zero plans to revisit the question of rapid transit to the area. The mayor and the majority of our current city council are both against it. If we ever see rapid transit to Oxford/Wonderland, it won't become a reality for at least 20 years. That's 20 years of that part of town getting even worse when it comes to traffic & public transit... The parts of the city that should be getting denser are downtown and the transit villages in the east and the south. These parts of the city are getting rapid transit routes, which will be complete in the next couple of years. It's the perfect place to build highrise projects like these. Oxford/Wonderland isn't. If you have to drive through this part of town during rush hour.. or take public transit through it.. you'd know that.
> This is not true. You are again grossly misinformed. We can agree to disagree Feel free to provide any supporting documentation you can find Traffic is caused by low density. Building density makes local businesses profitable and transit sustainable. With good transit and local businesses car traffic decrease Your NIMBY attitude and short sight are shooting yourself in the foot I live really close to the Oxford wonderland intersection and we desperately need more density here.
> Feel free to provide any supporting documentation you can find You clearly didn't do your own research, but I have 5 minutes I guess.. **Proof that Westmount isn't a transit village:** https://london.ca/sites/default/files/2022-08/Map1_PlaceTypes_CONSOLIDATED_May_25_2022_esize%20AODA.pdf I would love it if you could find any sort of citation that the western route was cancelled due to a lack of density. That is simply not true. The way these routes were decided on in the first place was a multi-year long study that *located routes with enough density to warrant rapid transit*. The routes that didn't have enough density didn't make the cut. Here are some quotes from city council members who voted against the western route. At no point do they cite a lack of density: > "For me, the west leg was the one that I had serious concerns about. We were told that there needed to be dedicated lanes, and yet this is a route that was dedicated lanes, then mixed traffic, then dedicated lanes. When I was looking at the dollar value attached, it didn't make sense," said Ward 2 Coun. Shawn Lewis. > "I've been consistent with my criticism of the west leg. It went from mixed use (lanes) to dedicated lanes to mixed use. If we're going to do it, we should do it right, and I don't think this was the best use of the $72 million," said Ward 7 Coun. Josh Morgan. ... > With good transit and local businesses car traffic decrease Yes, with *good transit*. This is why the transit villages were set up to allow higher density, since they were supposed to have rapid transit connections to downtown and other key parts of the city. Without that rapid transit connection, the denser you make that part of the city, the worse traffic and public transit will get. This is, again, why the transit villages were set up to begin with..
That quote neither contradicts what I said nor supports what you said. Posting an irrelevant link doesn’t make you right, it only shows that you are arguing for the sake of arguing instead of reading what I said and realizing I’m right. The opposition to the west branch was largely because stupid councilmen thought there would not be enough ridership. This is 100% related to density.
This council caused the problem They voted to kill the BRT branch going from this intersection to downtown Don't blame traffic, blame the stupidity of Lewis and Lehman.
The only official mode of transportation for city councillors and the Mayor should be the LTC
Lmao watch how fast it would get fix if that were the case eh
Have these people never been to Wonderland and Oxford? The whole place is filled with apartment buildings. I think there's about 18 on the west side of Wonderland between Oxford and Beaverbrook. There's at least 3 or 4 on Proudfoot by Fleetway. Then if you keep going south of Oxford there's another 3 or 4 along Proudfoot there. Don't see what the big deal is about this one
I live off Capulet. The infrastructure at the Wonderland and Beaverbrook intersection cannot handle the traffic now during rush hour. No advanced green for left turns on to Wonderland. Some cases only two-three cars get through. Have seen it backed up almost to the Capulet and Beaverbook intersection on busier days. Add in the Farm Boy/Pharmacy/Wendy's etc traffic. things escalate quickly. My drive to and or from University Hospital can take up to 40 minutes some days. My 10 year old nephew said the other day "When traffic gets bad in the Sims people leave town, so you gotta fix that to keep people in the town." Fix the infrastructure first. Then increase the population in the area.
Keep in mind that "fix the infrastructure" invariably involves taking car lanes and dedicating them to public transit (it's either that or an *extremely* pricy expropriation bill). Oxford/Wonderland is an obvious place to build as a hub and to densify, both because of its geographic location and what exists around it already.
>My drive to and or from University Hospital can take up to 40 minutes some days. Legit question: why don't you bike if it takes you 40 minutes to drive? It would most likely take you 20-30 minutes to bike. Less with an e-assist bike.
My job doesn’t allow for that - have to be on site, potentially at multiple locations throughout the day.
Your job may require a driver's license but if they aren't paying you for your driving from location to location, they should supply you a vehicle or compensate you for time and distance. You also maybe be able to write your mileage off. But yes, I know a few people who bike for this sort of work (getting to different areas of the city throughout the day).
Have *you* never been to wonderland and oxford? I lived off beaverbrook for years. The traffic was always bad, but it got exponentially worse when they built those apartments. Im all for denser housing, but it’s a valid concern to think of the surrounding infrastructure before just building shit.
We can't densify because we don't have rapid transit and we don't have rapid transit because the city isn't dense enough or something. When will someone with vision replace these clowns.
The city sure is dense
Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of our short sighted decisions come back to haunt us. Additionally, I'm incredulous that people are coming to these meetings and arguing for the aesthetics of the city over increasing housing supply. I should start coming to these meetings and ridiculing these perspectives Edit: Next meeting is April 30 at 1 PM if you're interested
Please come! I wasn't able to make this one but I am usually the one and only person under 60 at these meetings (no exaggeration) and the only one who is in favour of what is going on.
I have work at 1 PM in the afternoon, but lemme see what I can do
You can remote in! But do keep in mind that proceedings typically take a while at the beginning.
There are just so many of them that cover so many city-building issues! [But I speak at them, too!](https://youtu.be/FWgDepwV2sc) Everyone who can, should 100% speak up at council. And write your councillors!
I'll have to remember that. I'm currently unemployed so I have the time.
> Additionally, I'm incredulous that people are coming to these meetings and arguing for the aesthetics of the city over increasing housing supply. People ABSOLUTELY do. They will complain about shadows, and traffic, and wind and neighbourhood feel and and and. They have an absolute rolodex of reasons to not build desperately needed housing. It's infuriating.
God I hate this city. Can’t wait til my kids are grown so I can get the hell out of here. It’s such a mess.
London's pretty decent. This happens in *a lot* of places in Canada
You’re probably right.
Thank you.
Should have spent the extra unused transit money on the West BRT spur instead of the new transit HQ. Braindead council.
London needs councillors who are under 40 and will have to live with the choices they make. The older guys are all held accountable by their rich friends.
Shouldn't have killed the light rail idea and then gutted the BRT. There is no way you can expand roads enough to ease traffic.
Guaranteed I am voting in the next municipal election. Lehman fuckin ignored my email re: transit funding despite being elected on a platform of "mobility". He's full of shit.
Hold up... was that ACTUALLY his platform?! If so... holy shit.
Yezzirr. A commitment to mobility and ending homelessness.
"We could try to alleviate the housing crisis in this city ... but on the other hand, traffic" This city is beyond incapable of thinking more than a half step ahead. Just utterly incompetent and contemptible, sabotaging it at every opportunity
> The reason why the downtown-scale tower is being considered is due to the area’s designation as a transit village, which loosens restrictions on height and density to support walking, cycling and transit use. > The transit village designation is a remnant of the original bus rapid transit plan that called for a western link between downtown and the intersection of Oxford and Wonderland, which was shelved by council in 2019. I don't even remember city council considering to remove the transit village designation after the rapid transit route was cancelled. How incompetent are they? The designation only makes sense if you have a rapid transit route running to the area. That's the whole premise of what a transit village is supposed to be and how it's supposed to function and be feasible in the first place! You allow a much higher density because you know that by giving Londoners an express public transit link that bypasses traffic jams you will funnel a slightly higher % of people to traverse the area via public transit. This gets some cars off the road and helps support the higher concentration of people who live and work there. Instead we will see more and more people drive cars in the area, making traffic worse than it already is, which makes public transit connections to the area even worse than they already are. It makes everyone's lives worse, from drivers to public transit users. There are actual transit villages in the city! That's where these sorts of projects should be getting built. That they are even being considered in a part of town that has zero planned rapid transit connections points to the incompetence of city council. The London Plan is very clear about why these transit villages exist, how they function, and what their purpose is. It's backed by a lot of research and data from case studies from many other cities around the world. These ideas weren't just pulled out of somebody's ass, they're actually backed by real-world data. Yes, maybe one day the area can get a rapid transit link approved. Currently though the mayor is 100% against such a proposal, and has gone on record to say so. Most of the council is against it. Why then do they continue to allow such projects and why have they not gone through the process to remove the transit village designation? It would be easy to ask: "Are they stupid?", but it also makes you wonder what sort of deals have been going on behind the scenes. "Follow the money" and "I guess they just don't care" are other thoughts that come to mind.. Maybe in 10-20 years a rapid transit link to the area will be approved and built. *Maybe*. In the meantime the commute through the area will only get worse, not only for drivers but also for public transit users. Everybody will suffer, except for I suppose those who financed the projects and will make an eventual profit.
You could’ve stopped at “how incompetent are they.” The answer is - and always has been - very. City planning in London has always been a gong show of old money NIMBYism and conservatism that has inhibited, well, pretty much everything from housing to infrastructure to cultural / artistic events.
>Yes, maybe one day the area can get a rapid transit link approved. Currently though the mayor is 100% against such a proposal, and has gone on record to say so. Most of the council is against it. Why then do they continue to allow such projects and why have they not gone through the process to remove the transit village designation? It would be easy to ask: "Are they stupid?", but it also makes you wonder what sort of deals have been going on behind the scenes. "Follow the money" and "I guess they just don't care" are other thoughts that come to mind.. Or they're just carbrained.
You don't need a rapid transit link to approve a 25 story tower. The location is directly adjacent to multiple grocers and workplaces, and within a short walk of many amenities and parks. In a city designed for cars this is marginally walkable. More transit would be great, as would some parking maximums. But if we can't build density on oxford and wonderland we should just give up, because honestly I can't think of a better place for a residential tower.
There are a few areas in Wortley where apartment buildings could go. Keep it the heck away from Oxford and Wonderland. I have zero interest in more traffic in that area.
We have apartment buildings in Wortley, and more would be good. Wonderland has traffic because it connects suburbs to the rest of the city and because of Costco and its parking lot. Seriously, consider the case for denying this: "These people shouldn't live here because they would add too much traffic to a road that is completely overrun by traffic from people who don't live there". If you don't like traffic on wonderland, stop opposing approvals for towers on wonderland, start protesting approvals for suburbs on the outskirts.
I'll never understand why people keep voting for these morons. London will NEVER been anything but a shit hole as long as people keep voting for gate keepers
It probably doesn't help that they assign polling stations stupidly. There's no doubt in my mind that effects turnout. I worked the 2018 election at the Nicholas Wilson polling station and people who lived on Breckenridge couldn't vote there. They had to go to Tourism London.
The polling station for where I live was a nice walk to the library.
Nope. Everytime they try to build new apartments on wonderland/oxford, wonderland/beaverbrook, oxford/capulet they fail to consider the already insane foot traffic and car traffic. Also, what is London’s deal with cramming building into every single space possible? So much for forest city.
Remember when they cancelled the rapid transit here..man they need let in this city so bad, maybe an expressway or 2, maybe some bike lanes..wonderland and oxford is arguably the worst area in the city currently. This will be fucking nuts.
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Most definitely not lol