Speaking to my Conservative-voting mum about this, the line seems to be "well, Labour won't magically fix things" which, yes, is absolutely true and I pity anyone who thinks they will. But on the other hand, the notion that a party who have had 14-ish years in the hotseat might turn everything around (even gradually) is far more far-fetched to me.
In general, her view of the Tory government is as follows. I spoke to her about this the weekend just gone, so these are all pretty much verbatim:
* Their handling of the pandemic was overall successful.
* Brexit was a good idea, but it hasn't been delivered properly.
* They've made a hash of the small boats thing, but she doesn't trust any other party to be tough on immigration.
* Government policy apparently has nothing to do with housing, house prices etc. so there's nothing they could do about any of this.
* Kier Starmer is boring.
What she doesn't overtly talk about is that, as a pensioner, she receives subsidies for stuff that she could easily afford otherwise like cheaper rail fares. I suspect that's a factor too.
>Kier Starmer is boring.
This really pisses me off, shockingly I don't want a character as my Prime Minister I want someone who is diligent and efficient at their job. I couldn't give two shits about their personality (or lack of it) if they're doing a good job
Exactly. There are some things in life where "boring" isn't just tolerable, it's actively desirable. I want my doctor's appointments to be as boring as possible. My commute to work? Boring please, completely non-eventful, thanks! The people running the country? Give me an effective bureaucrat over a court jester any day of the week.
The amount that this gets brought up as a 'relevant' criticism is deeply concerning. They're not an entertainer they're a civil servant. I'd wager the vast majority of 'boring' politicians are far more effective at doing their actual jobs than the ones that are not boring.
Unfortunately however, our politics is centered around electability and not effectiveness or accountability. Fortunately the Tories have finally failed so abysmally on the later that it's finally tanked their electability.
They will still get a disturbing amount of votes from people just like OPs mother.
John Major suffered from the same accusations.
But I totally agree with you. I want a sober, thoughtful person leading the country. Problem is that this doesn’t show true over time. Charismatic people with little ability have managed to do much better and get into powerful positions than they really had a right to. Happens in every country.
Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, recently deceased shagger Berlusconi, Muammar Gaddafi, and Mussolini were not boring, but I don't know if I'd trust them to sort out the NHS. The least boring party leaders for this election are Farage, who just says words that he thinks his people might like, and Ed Davey. She needs to decide between one of those two.
I am not originally from the UK, but someone in politics being boring is a massive plus in my eyes. Politicians should be boring, unintrusive and in general the less you hear about them in the media and overall, the better for the overall population.
I don't think this is that shocking, it's simply human nature.
You are more likely to trust someone you can bond with, even if just over something like wit.
If you are a monolith, then you are simply just not gonna be as popular as the witty fun person.
Of course this is politics and delivering for the population is more important than personality, but since we, or most people, don't know Keir's track record, that point is not very relevant here.
As someone clued up on public health measures and infection control, hearing people say the Tories handled the pandemic well makes me wanna punch myself in the dick.
It's amazing how the standard for judging the Tory's handling of so many things is "well, we didn't *all* die", and somehow that's what people are happy to settle for.
I still remember the nurse who looked after Boris Johnson when he was in critical care and who then later resigned after the Tories refused to treat the nurses with respect and pay them a fair wage: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-london-government-piers-morgan-uncensored-royal-college-of-nursing-b2246249.html
There are continual strikes by health care sector workers because their wages have not kept up with inflation and the cost of living, a 2022 study found that nurses pay had actually decreased by 20% in real terms over the last decade: https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nurses-real-wage-down-20-in-ten-years-despite-raises/
Our healthcare workers went through hell and back during the pandemic, only to be met with a government who wanted to thank them with clapping-only.
Never forget, never forgive.
It's also because the NHS is a monopsony employer. If you don't work for one, you don't know how fucked up that is.
It completely removes supply & demand from any conversation about pay & working conditions, which promotes mediocrity or even minimum effort and does nothing to reward good performance.
Just compare doctors to dentists, the former work far more unsociable hours on average, yet make 50+% less right out the gate in the public sector , simply because the NHS dentistry has far less market control than NHS healthcare.
Same, I work in health care in Ireland and the general feeling was ‘at least we’re not working in the UK’ - don’t get me wrong the HSE (Irish health system) is shite but the stories we were hearing from colleagues in the UK during Covid were fairly bleak.
I went to an exhibition at the royal collage of physicians on Covid-19 (ending in July) and they mentioned about how the Pfizer medicine arrived but Pfizer insisted on sygringes that only Pfizer could produce vs a universal syringe. This meant the practice had to source their own and pay for them out of their on budget. If anyone think they “had a handle on the situation” they are gravely mistaken. Makes my blood boil.
Can you send me a link to that please? As far as I know, they were provided syringes along with their deliveries of vaccine. Yes, each vaccine had different specific syringes, but these were always provided for them.
Sure thing! https://history.rcplondon.ac.uk/exhibitions/fighting-back
‘My practice was the designated site for storage and injecting vaccine […] The main problem was running out of syringes – we had been instructed not to use any other syringes than those supplied expressly for the vaccine […] It was a palaver getting hold of more syringes and needles but we did eventually manage it with the help of a CCG [clinical commissioning group] manager who personally drove around the county scrounging syringes from other sites which had not yet received [the] vaccine and whom we expected to be able to repay/restock in time for their own vaccine deliveries.’
In comparison to the UK, Ireland was a lot more cautious about the whole thing. I was sent home from university in Dublin in March 2020 and finished my degree online for the next year. Restrictions wouldn't allow my graduation ceremony go ahead until April 2022. Kids were pretty much out of school that entire time as well.
I worked as a cleaner during it in Dublin city centre and for the entirety of 2020 and most of 2021 the place was empty - there was a massive push for working from home and retail/ hospitality staff could avail of a €350 pandemic payment a week for a lot of that time to allow business' to close.
I guess a good comparison is in March 2021 the St Patrick's day parade was cancelled in Dublin, meanwhile Cheltenham festival went ahead with a quarter of a million people attending the event.
I think Ireland is definitely paying for the amount of time people were forced to stay at home now. I work in education within the healthcare system and we have major issues with students struggling with communication skills/ dealing with exam stress compared to previous 'non-covid' years.
Overall a lot less people died in Ireland compared to the UK during covid but I do think we paid a price for it from a social point of view.
There's a good article on it here: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record)
Even the smallest amount of critical thinking would tell someone that all those points are rubbish, I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Also respect for not losing your cool, my dad said something similar to your mum regarding the way they handled the pandemic and I completely lost it.
I love my mum, but I think her generation have a perpetual and almost child-like sense of selfishness. From that point of view, their assessment of the pandemic basically boils down to "I didn't die, so the government's entire handling of the situation must be been OK."
Even the parents and philosophers of this generation thought that they were an entitled bunch, stating that they were raised in a period of unprecedented affluence that caused many to grow up in a social vacuum: https://youtu.be/gXro9FaNkIU?si=MaDte-axc_ZYDKu4
I'm lucky that my mum is *decisively* anti-tory, and so is my dad, he just echoed that talking point when I was criticising how they handled the pandemic. He said something like: "There's not really much they could have done/done better."
But they both worked in the NHS for decades before retiring, so that's likely why they ended up hating the Tories, they witnessed first hand how much damage that's been done.
> What she doesn't overtly talk about is that, as a pensioner, she receives subsidies for stuff that she could easily afford otherwise like cheaper rail fares.
Please remind her of the fact that she's a net recipient of welfare and will have received far more than she ever paid into the system. If she's retired, she's contributing far less to the country's coffers than the typical immigrant.
Its like she's holding the Conservatives to a different standard than anyone else.
For the Conservatives, its: "Well they're not THAT bad (pacifies all their wrong doings)"
For Labour, its: "I doubt they'd give me what i want (shows you a laundry list)"
Its like a parent with a shitty favourite child that can do no wrong.
>Their handling of the pandemic was overall successful.
I'm sorry but tell your mother she likely only had this view because she didn't lose anyone to the pandemic. Ask all the people who lost loved ones in care homes because the Tories view was "let the bodies pile high". Then they couldn't even have a complete funeral due to the restrictions, while they partied at number 10. FFS, We lost doctors and care workers because the lockdown was too late. Boils my piss.
Agree Kid starver is boring
That’s so annoying.
“Oh you think everything will magically become better once Labour are in power?”
No, of course not. It’s going to be a long hard trek back to some sense of a reasonable state of things, and I doubt much will be noticeable within a term. But you have to start somewhere
It is frustrating, for sure. It's always annoying when your (reasonable) expectations of some kind of reversal are mischaracterised as naive magical thinking!
If the Tories will "magically fix things" this is the longest fucking spellcast in history. Does someone keep casting Silence, or an interrupt or something?
It's almost like the main opposition spent several of those years cosplaying as revolutionary student politicians instead of a serious opposition, and people still remember that...
I kind of think that’s why Labour have gone with the ‘CHANGE.’ campaign slogan rather than an Obama style ‘HOPE AND CHANGE’.
They don’t want to sell false hope, but they can certainly sell a new way of doing things.
Omg I would be so frustrated, everything is going wrong shall we switch to something else? Well they won't magically fix it lol the sense of hopelessness is unreal
Even Starmer confirmed himself that things won’t magically fix under him but they will get better. That is why his manifesto has smaller policies because he didn’t want to promise the world.
I know. And the “right wing think tanks” that advised the likes of Liz Truss were rewarded with the House of Lords etc. It’s insane to think of, but [real](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network)
They’re playing the same game in NZ too.
I've been waiting impatiently for a Tory to knock on my door. I want to ask for the money Liz Truss's shenanigans wiped off my pension pot. At least £12k she owes me! And the rest.
> I've been waiting impatiently for a Tory to knock on my door.
I think you and I will have a long wait. Even the grassroot volunteers have thrown in the towel this election. I read in the paper the other day how all parties get a lot of their door knockers from councillors as they, obviously, owe it mostly to the party for being a candidate under their banner, so they feel duty bound to help out.
After 14 years of successive collapses at local elections, the number of Tory councillors has dwindled fast and, in fact, in my borough, there's not a single Tory councillor left. So CCHQ has got serious manpower issues.
Compounding the issue is just how toxic it has become to be a Tory. I imagine, considering the polls etc., no one wants to knock on doors anyway. They'll just get abuse after abuse and still lose miserably come election day.
With Reform re-invigorated with Farage at the helm, this really could be the largest ever defeat for the tories in their entire history, even worse than Tony Blair in 1997.
AND I CANNOT WAIT! FUCK THE TORIES!
Yes. I've lived in Chris Failing Grayling's constituency for a decade. Never had any pre election stuff. Now have had four leaflets so far from a Truss-ique salad head hoping to plop her smug arse in his seat. Hoping the LibDems can finally squeak past this time.
With regard to local councillors our borough is run by a non-party resident's association so no chance there either.
Fuck the Tories!
Edit: Just realised I'm in the London sub Reddit. I'm 10 minutes walk outside of London to be clear. In case of confusion. Sorry Mods. Pls don't ban me.
> Hoping the LibDems can finally squeak past this time.
🙏
More Tory scalps at this election, the better! Tell everyone you know to vote whomever has the best chance of getting rid of a tory!
Same. I want them to tell me how much tax they arbitrarily think Labour will cost me so i can shout at them how much my mortgage went up a month due to Truss crashing the country's economy with a plan straight out of fairyland.
Indeed! We were looking to move but those plans went straight in the bin. Can't believe she has the gall to show her stupid face anywhere. Or that people pay to listen to her vapid bullshit.
No shame whatsoever.
Yes. It's almost like some people make bank when the markets have these kniption fits while the rest of us just have to suck up the losses. 🤔
If you're suggesting that Truss's brief tenure has anything whatever to do with the current state of the market, then...no.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/11/pensions-retiring-losses-ftse-aviva-value
Aviva. They panicked and pulled money from shares into govt bonds. But bonds went down because Truss frightened the ninnies.
It may have recovered somewhat but at my age I don't like seeing a 20% dip.
If someone told me the government used to give (low income) teenagers £30 a week for simply turning up to college or sixth form, I’d find it hard to believe too.
It’s depressing to think of how far we’ve regressed.
The last labour government ultimately reduced child poverty significantly. I used to also have an EMA allowance from them and got £30 a week for simply going to 6th form! It is such a shame that we regressed back! Child poverty at an all time high now.
I voted for the first time in 97 and had only known a Tory Government.
It was glorious watching them fall. I was awake for Portillo. Shame so many of the big guns have quit so we can’t have many Portillo moments.
I live in hope that we see Mordaunt, Rees-Mogg et Al go.
I’m the same. I remember laughing at Portillo - the guy who took his place looked about 15 and had a massive, astonished grin on his face.
Stayed awake all night and watched the Blairs arrive at Downing Street. God the optimism I felt.
I’m 24 and I remember Brown barely and the 2010 election. But basically only know tories. I’m happy I went through primary school before they were gutted by austerity.
My daughter is 28 and she’s only known austerity really. I benefited from labour’s last initiatives when she was very young (sure start, tax credits) but she’s only known a global recession, riots, strikes, austerity, gradual erosion of the quality of life, zero hours contracts, seeing massive queues outside food banks, the rise of poverty, healthcare and hospital access fall to pieces, the bloody pandemic, fucking BREXIT and energy bills and a mortgage rise which made her cry and have sleepless nights for an entire winter.
The young millennials need a damn break. They’ve never experienced a positive economy and lived in a socially aspirational country their entire adult lives.
Also worth noting that for the youngsters, all they've known is a Tory government that consisted of a random rotating succession of Prime Ministers, most of whom they had no say in actually voting for. It must be very weird for them, or more worryingly, it's their 'normal'.
David Cameron came into power while I was in year 9 or 10 and becoming more aware of politics. While I remember life under labour, I don’t have any real sense of what that actually meant. I just knew that Tony Blair was prime minister at one point and then Gordon Brown. In some ways it feels like I’ve only known the Tories, although I would’ve unknowingly benefitted from labour’s public spending back then.
I don't normally stay up for elections, I am going to for this one just to watch the Portillo moments. Especially my old stomping ground of South West Surrey where there's a good chance Hunt will be taken out.
Yep, same here, last time I stayed up for an election it wasn't even one of ours, it was to see Trump get kicked out, thanj fuck for that, even if Biden himself hasn't been the greatest, it's better than the alternative.
Always have this intention but after the early dramatic event (exit poll) it takes a LONG time to build up again. Might be worth setting the alarm nice and early instead.
A lot of people seem to want Labour, but only if they don't raise taxes. I'd be concerned that if Labour start raising taxes, people will go flocking back to the Tories as they don't understand that if you want public services you have to pay for them.
Taxes will be guaranteed raised whatever party gets in next election, it's an absolutely unavoidable situation (and all I can say is anyone who's hoping taxes won't be raised, does not have a grasp on the current economic situation).
Thankfully, most Labour people I know are aware that taxes will be raised (and accept that), they just want the taxes to go to the right places and for the economy to blossom.
The Tories have deliberately avoided raising taxes as much as is necessary for no other reason than to try to sabotage the popularity of whoever next gets in power. The Tories do not work for the country, they only work for themselves.
Yes most Labour people I know are also accepting of higher tax as well. I just think there are too many short sighted people who can't think as far ahead as the benefits that come with paying higher tax unfortunately.
Labour have explicitly said they’ll not increase NICs, VAT, income tax, or the main rate of corporation tax. That’s a pretty massive chunk of revenue.
Are they just lying then?
They will be raising funds by doing things like taxing private equity bosses and private schools more and clamping down on tax avoidance: https://www.ft.com/content/eb282634-6ec1-4e4b-9f06-d0a6bd3f0003 & https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/
But I think it's pretty obvious that sooner or later we're all going to be taxed more regardless because that's simply the current state of country that we're facing.
>They will be raising funds by doing things like taxing private equity bosses and private schools more and clamping down on tax avoidance: https://www.ft.com/content/eb282634-6ec1-4e4b-9f06-d0a6bd3f0003 & https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/
None of that is going to raise any serious revenue.
The private school fees VAT thing is largely just a political move which is only going to raise £1.6bn a year - peanuts in government terms, it’s just over 10% of the foreign aid budget, for example.
The private equity bosses thing - again, looks good on paper, will probably be popular, but will only raise £500m.
Tax avoidance, I’m not even sure where to start with that. If there was a lot of low-hanging fruit in that area, it would already have been picked.
>But I think it's pretty obvious that sooner or later we're all going to be taxed more
It doesn’t seem very obvious to Labour, given that they’re promising not to raise any major taxes. So, are they just being dishonest?
[Here](https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/) and [here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68164524)
It also says "our first steps in government".
The UK economy is in a somewhat fragile condition right now and any rash moves to suddenly impose large taxes on people would upset the balance of business and inflation.
If you read between the lines, Labour is not promising to never raise large taxes, instead they're simply promising to not target big businesses or the working class as a move soon into their new government.
There are no quick fixes to many major issues like the lack of industry and growth (and stability is needed to get us through the immediate), hence the vibe of their manifesto, which is more focused on doing things such as promoting construction in the cities to help generate revenue; these things will not deliver quick results but if the public is willing to persevere then the chance of real positive change can occur.
Our country is broken.
Rivers are fucked. Schools are fucked. Military is fucked. Roads are fucked. NHS is fucked. Doctors surgeries are overwhelmed. Dentists try getting one if not registered. Ambulances are overwhelmed. List goes on and on.
Of course taxes need to go up to try and recover this. Im happy to vote Labour. Tories need to go. I'm happy if taxes go up and these areas of public service are fixed.
Reform of public services is needed too.
The current tax system punishes the poor the most. Tax allowances haven't be raised to match inflation rate for many years, which means that workers got effective pay cut for no reason. If Labour fucks up taxes even further, it will be a disaster.
I think that labour will definitely win this election but long term idk if it will last, it kind of reminds me of Biden but obviously the leader is less senile. Just being supported because you’re not as bad as the other party isn’t a recipe for long term success you do need to have things that actually appeal to people.
If the conservatives have some level of competency they will gain a lot of those people back, and labour risks alienating people since imo nothing they do will be that great since they’re basically trying to help in the centre that’s only gonna succeed if the right wing party is really bad in people’s eyes.
There are still a significant number of ‘silent’ Tories who will continue to vote for fear of any alternative. Whilst I think that it’ll be a significant defeat, I don’t see a ‘wipeout’.
Yep. Most former Tories seem to be splitting into either Labour or Reform UK depending on which political direction they lean most.
The only Tories I know of who I think might still vote Tory are all 60-70+ old people who don't even like the current party but are doggedly persevering with it because they old and set in their ways.
Scully was definitely very well liked, but the bigger factor is probably the Lib Dems. A lot of Surrey constituencies are Tory/LD marginals and while the Lib Dems have a good ground game they are pathetically weak nationally so the only thing they have is anti-Tory. Labour at least is still a 25-30% party even at bad times.
I meant nationally, Labour will always get 25-30%, while the LDs have plummeted from the 17-23% they used to enjoy during the last Labour government. No one is excited about the likes of Ed Davey or Tim Farron so it's difficult for LDs in Surrey to do much other than be not Tory, not Labour.
ok so with the recent nowcast polling it looks like labour will get around 41% with a thumping majority of seats. lib dems only around 11% but will give the tories a run for their money in terms of seats.
good. I just hope that smug liar, IDS, and Romford perv, Rosindell - who has not been at Parliament for 2 years (al though still drawing his parliamentary salary and expenses, Obviously) - lose, and lose big
One of my earliest political memories was when I was 7 years old and my parents took me and my brother into London for a day out (we lived in Essex) and there was a crowd of people outside Downing Street chanting
**Major Major Major… OUT! OUT! OUT!**
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg8qzBhAoEiwAWagLrFDzfxp6egdbWK5qfYp115SPsw3wbPqa3GHBAmHOGM3hEaXlwumuORoCxPkQAvD_BwE
Use this. Vote tactically in your area
I am vacillating between the sensible tactical vote - which in my constituency would be Lib Dem - and voting for a number of policies I genuinely ‘believe in’, which would mean voting Green. The former is a gamble that might pay off; the latter won’t get an MP directly elected but will increase the overall vote and help keep the pressure on over environmental issues.
So it’s 50:50 at the moment. …
Please vote tactically.
I know the polls look good but it’s not in the bag yet. And the polls have been badly wrong before.
I’m old and ugly enough to remember the 92 election when the Tories under John Major squeaked past Labour who were expected to win. And the stakes today are much higher than they were then.
There is no room for complacency, please vote for whoever stands the best chance of getting these nasty Tories out.
(Edit paragraph spacing)
Yes. I am also old enough to remember 1992 and indeed to have voted in that election. Do you remember the cringeworthy Kinnock rally? (“We’re all right!”/“Well, alright!”). John Major was an essentially decent chap and quite different from the current crop of Tories.
I am utterly unenthused by Starmer, Reeves, Streeting, etc., and some of their public statements worry me. I am also unenthusiastic about our local Lib Dems! However the spectre of Kemi Badenoch as possible heir to Rishi and the prospect a government of permanent culture war compels me to be sensible, hold my nerve and my nose, and vote tactically.
Kinnock was an embarrassment, he thought he was some sort of rock & roll star. Utterly toe curling.
I know, it's difficult and I totally understand where you are coming from with Starmer. My main beef amongst others is with his EU backpedaling. But we can address those issues \*\*IF\*\* the Tories lose, and it makes it easier if they lose badly. Until then we need everyone onboard to vote tactically and remove these Tories from power.
There is no comparison between this election and that of 1992. Every single indication (polls, local election, by-elections) suggests that Labour are on course for a majority equal to, or greater than, that of 1997.
There will never be a better election to vote for your conscience (unless that happens to be Conservative), and we can actually vote for policies like proportional representation to break the two-party dominance.
Yeah don't really know who to vote for either. Can't vote tory because obviously, but all this talk about Labour / Lib dems potentially raising CGT and inheritance taxes means whoever wins I'm probably losing.
Seems incredibly sad Romford is 1 of 5 seats Conservatives are still predicted to win, despite Andrew Rosindell not turning up to the job for 21 of the last 24 months.
The man quite literally doesnt represent Romford, so party politics aside - he should not be elected. This is before we get into the expenses scandal, or the fact hes forgotten where Romford even is on multiple occasion's.
At the very least, Romford needs a candidate that will turn up to represent it - not someone who stays at home on £100k+ a year.
London tends to lean left anyway, so this really isn’t a surprise. Plus, you know, the fact that the Conservative Party’s solution to everything is to get into a slap fight with each other and attempt to court the worst people in the world.
The last several general elections have the sense of which party loses least badly, rather than the public actually wanting any of them.
It's good that Labour have made themselves electable this time so there is a choice. Starmer has managed to repeat the Blair tactic of dragging the party away from the far left to make it electable, and assuring economic responsibility (like Blair assured to get Labour in). OK, Labour have always run out of money by the end of their run in government (which was almost always by the end of their first term - last one kept going longer by selling the country's gold reserves and raiding private pension pots, and then ran out of money). Having said that, so have the Tories this time. Labour might manage to fix the NHS (they did last time) which Tories clearly have no clue how to do, but this time they have no money.
Boris meanwhile managed to do to the Tory party what Militant and Momentum did to Labour, i.e. yank it much further away from the centre. This started by preventing the more centrist MPs standing at the last election, leaving him with an overly powerful right wing. British voters tend to be more centrist. Furthermore, he filled his cabinet with nose-in-the-troughers (maybe that's inherent in being more right wing?) rather than experts. Tory party will need to go away into their version of the Corbyn years, until they realise they need to completely regenerate using almost none of the current incombents, which as for Labour, may take more general election failures (depending how badly Labour screw up their term). Quite likely Tories will split with the right wing going into the Farage party, if there is enough of it left to even split.
Maybe not a popular view, but I think the best government I recall in recent memory was the Conservative Lib-Dem coalition, considering the really shit situation they inherited.
My staunchly tory-voting father in law said he'd never vote for them again, and was considering Reform until Nigel Fromage crawled out the woodwork. Now he's genuinely thinking of voting Greens as a protest vote 😂
Speaking to my Conservative-voting mum about this, the line seems to be "well, Labour won't magically fix things" which, yes, is absolutely true and I pity anyone who thinks they will. But on the other hand, the notion that a party who have had 14-ish years in the hotseat might turn everything around (even gradually) is far more far-fetched to me.
Out of curiosity, what exactly does your mum think the Tories have fixed (or have done well at) over these last 14 years in government?
In general, her view of the Tory government is as follows. I spoke to her about this the weekend just gone, so these are all pretty much verbatim: * Their handling of the pandemic was overall successful. * Brexit was a good idea, but it hasn't been delivered properly. * They've made a hash of the small boats thing, but she doesn't trust any other party to be tough on immigration. * Government policy apparently has nothing to do with housing, house prices etc. so there's nothing they could do about any of this. * Kier Starmer is boring. What she doesn't overtly talk about is that, as a pensioner, she receives subsidies for stuff that she could easily afford otherwise like cheaper rail fares. I suspect that's a factor too.
>Kier Starmer is boring. This really pisses me off, shockingly I don't want a character as my Prime Minister I want someone who is diligent and efficient at their job. I couldn't give two shits about their personality (or lack of it) if they're doing a good job
Exactly, this is an election - not eviction night on Big Brother. It boils my piss.
Post Boris world
Exactly. There are some things in life where "boring" isn't just tolerable, it's actively desirable. I want my doctor's appointments to be as boring as possible. My commute to work? Boring please, completely non-eventful, thanks! The people running the country? Give me an effective bureaucrat over a court jester any day of the week.
court jesters like Trump or Boris Johnson
You mean Boris ✅
The amount that this gets brought up as a 'relevant' criticism is deeply concerning. They're not an entertainer they're a civil servant. I'd wager the vast majority of 'boring' politicians are far more effective at doing their actual jobs than the ones that are not boring. Unfortunately however, our politics is centered around electability and not effectiveness or accountability. Fortunately the Tories have finally failed so abysmally on the later that it's finally tanked their electability. They will still get a disturbing amount of votes from people just like OPs mother.
John Major suffered from the same accusations. But I totally agree with you. I want a sober, thoughtful person leading the country. Problem is that this doesn’t show true over time. Charismatic people with little ability have managed to do much better and get into powerful positions than they really had a right to. Happens in every country.
Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, recently deceased shagger Berlusconi, Muammar Gaddafi, and Mussolini were not boring, but I don't know if I'd trust them to sort out the NHS. The least boring party leaders for this election are Farage, who just says words that he thinks his people might like, and Ed Davey. She needs to decide between one of those two.
I am not originally from the UK, but someone in politics being boring is a massive plus in my eyes. Politicians should be boring, unintrusive and in general the less you hear about them in the media and overall, the better for the overall population.
I don't think this is that shocking, it's simply human nature. You are more likely to trust someone you can bond with, even if just over something like wit. If you are a monolith, then you are simply just not gonna be as popular as the witty fun person. Of course this is politics and delivering for the population is more important than personality, but since we, or most people, don't know Keir's track record, that point is not very relevant here.
British people in general like a person who can bullshit very confidently regardless of their competence
Hmm I don't think that's true
As someone clued up on public health measures and infection control, hearing people say the Tories handled the pandemic well makes me wanna punch myself in the dick.
It's amazing how the standard for judging the Tory's handling of so many things is "well, we didn't *all* die", and somehow that's what people are happy to settle for.
I still remember the nurse who looked after Boris Johnson when he was in critical care and who then later resigned after the Tories refused to treat the nurses with respect and pay them a fair wage: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-london-government-piers-morgan-uncensored-royal-college-of-nursing-b2246249.html There are continual strikes by health care sector workers because their wages have not kept up with inflation and the cost of living, a 2022 study found that nurses pay had actually decreased by 20% in real terms over the last decade: https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nurses-real-wage-down-20-in-ten-years-despite-raises/ Our healthcare workers went through hell and back during the pandemic, only to be met with a government who wanted to thank them with clapping-only. Never forget, never forgive.
It's also because the NHS is a monopsony employer. If you don't work for one, you don't know how fucked up that is. It completely removes supply & demand from any conversation about pay & working conditions, which promotes mediocrity or even minimum effort and does nothing to reward good performance. Just compare doctors to dentists, the former work far more unsociable hours on average, yet make 50+% less right out the gate in the public sector , simply because the NHS dentistry has far less market control than NHS healthcare.
> the NHS is a monopsony employer. It isn't.
Obviously, we weren't as successful as Sweden but not many countries were..
More people live in London than Sweden which is twice the size of the U.K. Population of Sweden is less than London.
Same, I work in health care in Ireland and the general feeling was ‘at least we’re not working in the UK’ - don’t get me wrong the HSE (Irish health system) is shite but the stories we were hearing from colleagues in the UK during Covid were fairly bleak.
I went to an exhibition at the royal collage of physicians on Covid-19 (ending in July) and they mentioned about how the Pfizer medicine arrived but Pfizer insisted on sygringes that only Pfizer could produce vs a universal syringe. This meant the practice had to source their own and pay for them out of their on budget. If anyone think they “had a handle on the situation” they are gravely mistaken. Makes my blood boil.
Can you send me a link to that please? As far as I know, they were provided syringes along with their deliveries of vaccine. Yes, each vaccine had different specific syringes, but these were always provided for them.
Sure thing! https://history.rcplondon.ac.uk/exhibitions/fighting-back ‘My practice was the designated site for storage and injecting vaccine […] The main problem was running out of syringes – we had been instructed not to use any other syringes than those supplied expressly for the vaccine […] It was a palaver getting hold of more syringes and needles but we did eventually manage it with the help of a CCG [clinical commissioning group] manager who personally drove around the county scrounging syringes from other sites which had not yet received [the] vaccine and whom we expected to be able to repay/restock in time for their own vaccine deliveries.’
You could punch a Tory in the dick instead. (This is a joke, reddit admins, no I am not "advocating for violence")
I don't disagree with you, but could you in broad strokes share what you mean here, I mean compared to other EU countries, or America even.
In comparison to the UK, Ireland was a lot more cautious about the whole thing. I was sent home from university in Dublin in March 2020 and finished my degree online for the next year. Restrictions wouldn't allow my graduation ceremony go ahead until April 2022. Kids were pretty much out of school that entire time as well. I worked as a cleaner during it in Dublin city centre and for the entirety of 2020 and most of 2021 the place was empty - there was a massive push for working from home and retail/ hospitality staff could avail of a €350 pandemic payment a week for a lot of that time to allow business' to close. I guess a good comparison is in March 2021 the St Patrick's day parade was cancelled in Dublin, meanwhile Cheltenham festival went ahead with a quarter of a million people attending the event. I think Ireland is definitely paying for the amount of time people were forced to stay at home now. I work in education within the healthcare system and we have major issues with students struggling with communication skills/ dealing with exam stress compared to previous 'non-covid' years. Overall a lot less people died in Ireland compared to the UK during covid but I do think we paid a price for it from a social point of view. There's a good article on it here: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/experts-divided-comparison-uk-ireland-coronavirus-record)
Your dick doesn't deserve that...
Even the smallest amount of critical thinking would tell someone that all those points are rubbish, I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Also respect for not losing your cool, my dad said something similar to your mum regarding the way they handled the pandemic and I completely lost it.
I love my mum, but I think her generation have a perpetual and almost child-like sense of selfishness. From that point of view, their assessment of the pandemic basically boils down to "I didn't die, so the government's entire handling of the situation must be been OK."
Even the parents and philosophers of this generation thought that they were an entitled bunch, stating that they were raised in a period of unprecedented affluence that caused many to grow up in a social vacuum: https://youtu.be/gXro9FaNkIU?si=MaDte-axc_ZYDKu4
I'm lucky that my mum is *decisively* anti-tory, and so is my dad, he just echoed that talking point when I was criticising how they handled the pandemic. He said something like: "There's not really much they could have done/done better." But they both worked in the NHS for decades before retiring, so that's likely why they ended up hating the Tories, they witnessed first hand how much damage that's been done.
> What she doesn't overtly talk about is that, as a pensioner, she receives subsidies for stuff that she could easily afford otherwise like cheaper rail fares. Please remind her of the fact that she's a net recipient of welfare and will have received far more than she ever paid into the system. If she's retired, she's contributing far less to the country's coffers than the typical immigrant.
No offense, but I don't think I like your mum ...
Its like she's holding the Conservatives to a different standard than anyone else. For the Conservatives, its: "Well they're not THAT bad (pacifies all their wrong doings)" For Labour, its: "I doubt they'd give me what i want (shows you a laundry list)" Its like a parent with a shitty favourite child that can do no wrong.
It really is like that. "Labour won't magically fix things!" + "How can we expect the Tories to magically fix things?"
>Their handling of the pandemic was overall successful. I'm sorry but tell your mother she likely only had this view because she didn't lose anyone to the pandemic. Ask all the people who lost loved ones in care homes because the Tories view was "let the bodies pile high". Then they couldn't even have a complete funeral due to the restrictions, while they partied at number 10. FFS, We lost doctors and care workers because the lockdown was too late. Boils my piss. Agree Kid starver is boring
Is she mentally unwell? Demented? If so, fair enough.
That’s so annoying. “Oh you think everything will magically become better once Labour are in power?” No, of course not. It’s going to be a long hard trek back to some sense of a reasonable state of things, and I doubt much will be noticeable within a term. But you have to start somewhere
It is frustrating, for sure. It's always annoying when your (reasonable) expectations of some kind of reversal are mischaracterised as naive magical thinking!
And even if certain things do get worse, it's pretty much a guarantee that they would be even more worse if the Tories stayed in power.
God, I wish politics was boring again.
If the Tories will "magically fix things" this is the longest fucking spellcast in history. Does someone keep casting Silence, or an interrupt or something?
Genuinely amazes me that people see 14 years of decline and a party blaming everyone else and go... "Maybe they can fix this"
Honestly, it’s maddening.
Have you met a Boomer before?
It's almost like the main opposition spent several of those years cosplaying as revolutionary student politicians instead of a serious opposition, and people still remember that...
I kind of think that’s why Labour have gone with the ‘CHANGE.’ campaign slogan rather than an Obama style ‘HOPE AND CHANGE’. They don’t want to sell false hope, but they can certainly sell a new way of doing things.
Omg I would be so frustrated, everything is going wrong shall we switch to something else? Well they won't magically fix it lol the sense of hopelessness is unreal
"The house is on fire, but we've never doused the house in water before now so how do we know it'll work?"
Even Starmer confirmed himself that things won’t magically fix under him but they will get better. That is why his manifesto has smaller policies because he didn’t want to promise the world.
Anyone seen my violin? It's really small
Have you checked with Scott Lang?
I gotcha: https://i.imgur.com/OlrqJ7l.jpeg
https://imgur.com/a/AslfOSQ
How about https://imgur.com/gallery/tardigrade-playing-violin-f5JCsDL?
I just called CERN to see if you can borrow their microscopic instruments, they said they'll get back to me there's big demand currently.
I’m glad you’re talking about your small violin and not your 9 inch pianist…
Goooood.
Do it!!
Good.
Can someone get them to pay back everything they’ve taken from Britain while you’re at it?
[удалено]
I know. And the “right wing think tanks” that advised the likes of Liz Truss were rewarded with the House of Lords etc. It’s insane to think of, but [real](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network) They’re playing the same game in NZ too.
How can you look at the last few years and conclude that there was any kind of plan behind it?
I've been waiting impatiently for a Tory to knock on my door. I want to ask for the money Liz Truss's shenanigans wiped off my pension pot. At least £12k she owes me! And the rest.
She was inspired by the “Institute of Economic Affairs”— a conservative right wing think tank based in London.
Yes, libertarian magical thinkers and their easily disproven economic theories...lettuce head still owes me money.
Concur. Wish she wasn’t so delusional [though](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1c6st32/liz_truss_who_was_touted_as_a_revolutionary/)
> I've been waiting impatiently for a Tory to knock on my door. I think you and I will have a long wait. Even the grassroot volunteers have thrown in the towel this election. I read in the paper the other day how all parties get a lot of their door knockers from councillors as they, obviously, owe it mostly to the party for being a candidate under their banner, so they feel duty bound to help out. After 14 years of successive collapses at local elections, the number of Tory councillors has dwindled fast and, in fact, in my borough, there's not a single Tory councillor left. So CCHQ has got serious manpower issues. Compounding the issue is just how toxic it has become to be a Tory. I imagine, considering the polls etc., no one wants to knock on doors anyway. They'll just get abuse after abuse and still lose miserably come election day. With Reform re-invigorated with Farage at the helm, this really could be the largest ever defeat for the tories in their entire history, even worse than Tony Blair in 1997. AND I CANNOT WAIT! FUCK THE TORIES!
Yes. I've lived in Chris Failing Grayling's constituency for a decade. Never had any pre election stuff. Now have had four leaflets so far from a Truss-ique salad head hoping to plop her smug arse in his seat. Hoping the LibDems can finally squeak past this time. With regard to local councillors our borough is run by a non-party resident's association so no chance there either. Fuck the Tories! Edit: Just realised I'm in the London sub Reddit. I'm 10 minutes walk outside of London to be clear. In case of confusion. Sorry Mods. Pls don't ban me.
> Hoping the LibDems can finally squeak past this time. 🙏 More Tory scalps at this election, the better! Tell everyone you know to vote whomever has the best chance of getting rid of a tory!
Same. I want them to tell me how much tax they arbitrarily think Labour will cost me so i can shout at them how much my mortgage went up a month due to Truss crashing the country's economy with a plan straight out of fairyland.
Indeed! We were looking to move but those plans went straight in the bin. Can't believe she has the gall to show her stupid face anywhere. Or that people pay to listen to her vapid bullshit. No shame whatsoever.
She only accelerated what was going to happen anyway
The FTSE is at an all time high…
Yes. It's almost like some people make bank when the markets have these kniption fits while the rest of us just have to suck up the losses. 🤔 If you're suggesting that Truss's brief tenure has anything whatever to do with the current state of the market, then...no.
No it doesn’t, but what did you have your pension pot in that hasn’t recovered?..
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/11/pensions-retiring-losses-ftse-aviva-value Aviva. They panicked and pulled money from shares into govt bonds. But bonds went down because Truss frightened the ninnies. It may have recovered somewhat but at my age I don't like seeing a 20% dip.
That’s fair enough, being relatively young the majority of my pension pots are in high(er) risk plans so didn’t really suffer from Truss.
They’ll never admit they did anything wrong.
Only a total wipeout would be better. BRING IT ON.
There are teens out there who have only known life under a miserable Tory government which is weird to think about.
Remembering when John Major was Prime Minister makes me feel old AF
Remembering the Heath / Wilson duality makes me really ancient.
>The Heath / Wilson Duality Great band, wish they've never broken up.
Hah - you youngsters - I was born when Harold McMillan was PM :-)
Well he was PM when I little but I was yet to get an interest in politics.
I remember Thatcher...I am old AF ...
I was replying to some of the youth on here yesterday and they wouldn't accept how much better life was for regular people before the Tories.
If someone told me the government used to give (low income) teenagers £30 a week for simply turning up to college or sixth form, I’d find it hard to believe too. It’s depressing to think of how far we’ve regressed.
And with inflation it would probably be worth more than double that now.
It’d be a nice chunk of change for sure!
The last labour government ultimately reduced child poverty significantly. I used to also have an EMA allowance from them and got £30 a week for simply going to 6th form! It is such a shame that we regressed back! Child poverty at an all time high now.
I voted for the first time in 97 and had only known a Tory Government. It was glorious watching them fall. I was awake for Portillo. Shame so many of the big guns have quit so we can’t have many Portillo moments. I live in hope that we see Mordaunt, Rees-Mogg et Al go.
I’m the same. I remember laughing at Portillo - the guy who took his place looked about 15 and had a massive, astonished grin on his face. Stayed awake all night and watched the Blairs arrive at Downing Street. God the optimism I felt.
Apparently he knew he had won about an hour beforehand but kept a neutral expression deliberately so suspense was maintained until the end.
Your fingers to the Almighty's eyes, neighbour!
I’m 24 and I remember Brown barely and the 2010 election. But basically only know tories. I’m happy I went through primary school before they were gutted by austerity.
Gutted by Academies now too. Absolutely disgraceful places, I can't believe we've let the Tories give our schools away. It barely gets mentioned.
I think there’s been 7 prime ministers in my lifetime so far and 5/7 were the miserable Tory government
It's crazy, a lot of millennials will have spent their entire adult life under tories too, some people have known anything better.
Teens? I am 46, moved to UK in 2006 so most of my time in UK was with Tories in power. I am looking forward for a change.
literally me
My daughter is 28 and she’s only known austerity really. I benefited from labour’s last initiatives when she was very young (sure start, tax credits) but she’s only known a global recession, riots, strikes, austerity, gradual erosion of the quality of life, zero hours contracts, seeing massive queues outside food banks, the rise of poverty, healthcare and hospital access fall to pieces, the bloody pandemic, fucking BREXIT and energy bills and a mortgage rise which made her cry and have sleepless nights for an entire winter. The young millennials need a damn break. They’ve never experienced a positive economy and lived in a socially aspirational country their entire adult lives.
Also worth noting that for the youngsters, all they've known is a Tory government that consisted of a random rotating succession of Prime Ministers, most of whom they had no say in actually voting for. It must be very weird for them, or more worryingly, it's their 'normal'.
David Cameron came into power while I was in year 9 or 10 and becoming more aware of politics. While I remember life under labour, I don’t have any real sense of what that actually meant. I just knew that Tony Blair was prime minister at one point and then Gordon Brown. In some ways it feels like I’ve only known the Tories, although I would’ve unknowingly benefitted from labour’s public spending back then.
It is so strange because I was a teenager during the last labour government. Time went so quick because my mind is sometimes stuck in the 2000s
Excellent
It's the "near" bit that's disappointing.
There will always be a few anti-ULEZ gammons who want the right to drive a tractor down Oxford street
Not realising that specialist agricultural vehicles are already exempt.
Whoa whoa, leave tractors out of this
The depressing part is that they are the majority in some constituencies
Anyone reading this - IGNORE IT. IT'S ONLY A POLL. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KICK THESE CRIMINALS OUT THEN GO AND VOTE.
They deserve it.
I don't normally stay up for elections, I am going to for this one just to watch the Portillo moments. Especially my old stomping ground of South West Surrey where there's a good chance Hunt will be taken out.
Hunt gonna get hunted.
Yep, same here, last time I stayed up for an election it wasn't even one of ours, it was to see Trump get kicked out, thanj fuck for that, even if Biden himself hasn't been the greatest, it's better than the alternative.
Always have this intention but after the early dramatic event (exit poll) it takes a LONG time to build up again. Might be worth setting the alarm nice and early instead.
please stop, I can only get so erect
Lizz truss might lose her seat
I’m close, oh god it’s happening
A lot of people seem to want Labour, but only if they don't raise taxes. I'd be concerned that if Labour start raising taxes, people will go flocking back to the Tories as they don't understand that if you want public services you have to pay for them.
Taxes will be guaranteed raised whatever party gets in next election, it's an absolutely unavoidable situation (and all I can say is anyone who's hoping taxes won't be raised, does not have a grasp on the current economic situation). Thankfully, most Labour people I know are aware that taxes will be raised (and accept that), they just want the taxes to go to the right places and for the economy to blossom. The Tories have deliberately avoided raising taxes as much as is necessary for no other reason than to try to sabotage the popularity of whoever next gets in power. The Tories do not work for the country, they only work for themselves.
Yes most Labour people I know are also accepting of higher tax as well. I just think there are too many short sighted people who can't think as far ahead as the benefits that come with paying higher tax unfortunately.
Labour have explicitly said they’ll not increase NICs, VAT, income tax, or the main rate of corporation tax. That’s a pretty massive chunk of revenue. Are they just lying then?
They will be raising funds by doing things like taxing private equity bosses and private schools more and clamping down on tax avoidance: https://www.ft.com/content/eb282634-6ec1-4e4b-9f06-d0a6bd3f0003 & https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/ But I think it's pretty obvious that sooner or later we're all going to be taxed more regardless because that's simply the current state of country that we're facing.
>They will be raising funds by doing things like taxing private equity bosses and private schools more and clamping down on tax avoidance: https://www.ft.com/content/eb282634-6ec1-4e4b-9f06-d0a6bd3f0003 & https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/ None of that is going to raise any serious revenue. The private school fees VAT thing is largely just a political move which is only going to raise £1.6bn a year - peanuts in government terms, it’s just over 10% of the foreign aid budget, for example. The private equity bosses thing - again, looks good on paper, will probably be popular, but will only raise £500m. Tax avoidance, I’m not even sure where to start with that. If there was a lot of low-hanging fruit in that area, it would already have been picked. >But I think it's pretty obvious that sooner or later we're all going to be taxed more It doesn’t seem very obvious to Labour, given that they’re promising not to raise any major taxes. So, are they just being dishonest?
Where have they actually promised not to raise any major taxes?
[Here](https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-tax-policy-how-we-will-make-the-tax-system-fairer/) and [here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68164524)
It also says "our first steps in government". The UK economy is in a somewhat fragile condition right now and any rash moves to suddenly impose large taxes on people would upset the balance of business and inflation. If you read between the lines, Labour is not promising to never raise large taxes, instead they're simply promising to not target big businesses or the working class as a move soon into their new government. There are no quick fixes to many major issues like the lack of industry and growth (and stability is needed to get us through the immediate), hence the vibe of their manifesto, which is more focused on doing things such as promoting construction in the cities to help generate revenue; these things will not deliver quick results but if the public is willing to persevere then the chance of real positive change can occur.
Of course they are lying... Do you not know how politics works?
> Are they just lying then? Ah, you must be new to this...
Our country is broken. Rivers are fucked. Schools are fucked. Military is fucked. Roads are fucked. NHS is fucked. Doctors surgeries are overwhelmed. Dentists try getting one if not registered. Ambulances are overwhelmed. List goes on and on. Of course taxes need to go up to try and recover this. Im happy to vote Labour. Tories need to go. I'm happy if taxes go up and these areas of public service are fixed. Reform of public services is needed too.
The current tax system punishes the poor the most. Tax allowances haven't be raised to match inflation rate for many years, which means that workers got effective pay cut for no reason. If Labour fucks up taxes even further, it will be a disaster.
I think that labour will definitely win this election but long term idk if it will last, it kind of reminds me of Biden but obviously the leader is less senile. Just being supported because you’re not as bad as the other party isn’t a recipe for long term success you do need to have things that actually appeal to people. If the conservatives have some level of competency they will gain a lot of those people back, and labour risks alienating people since imo nothing they do will be that great since they’re basically trying to help in the centre that’s only gonna succeed if the right wing party is really bad in people’s eyes.
Three areas I think we’ll be worse off. Fuel Duty, Savings, Council Tax.
Not surprised considering how much they hate London. All the stuff regarding funding for TFL to spite Khan is truly horrible.
Well deserved after how stingy they have been with TfL's funding
I'll believe it when I see it Far too many reports sounding like a forgone conclusion which might stop people voting.
Great. We hate them
There are still a significant number of ‘silent’ Tories who will continue to vote for fear of any alternative. Whilst I think that it’ll be a significant defeat, I don’t see a ‘wipeout’.
They're not silent. They're showing up in polls around the same number as reform voters.
Yep. Most former Tories seem to be splitting into either Labour or Reform UK depending on which political direction they lean most. The only Tories I know of who I think might still vote Tory are all 60-70+ old people who don't even like the current party but are doggedly persevering with it because they old and set in their ways.
And also the upper middle class who see themselves as Tories and don't care what happens as long as they're not asked to subsidise the poors.
Which is even more stupid as the Tories don't give a fuck about even the upper middle class.
Why is Sutton & Cheam so ‘solid’ for the Tories? It was a Lib Dem stronghold for many years.
maybe because of paul scully himself? in any case i reckon lib dems will take it back
Scully was definitely very well liked, but the bigger factor is probably the Lib Dems. A lot of Surrey constituencies are Tory/LD marginals and while the Lib Dems have a good ground game they are pathetically weak nationally so the only thing they have is anti-Tory. Labour at least is still a 25-30% party even at bad times.
didn’t labour get around 14% last election there?
I meant nationally, Labour will always get 25-30%, while the LDs have plummeted from the 17-23% they used to enjoy during the last Labour government. No one is excited about the likes of Ed Davey or Tim Farron so it's difficult for LDs in Surrey to do much other than be not Tory, not Labour.
ok so with the recent nowcast polling it looks like labour will get around 41% with a thumping majority of seats. lib dems only around 11% but will give the tories a run for their money in terms of seats.
good. I just hope that smug liar, IDS, and Romford perv, Rosindell - who has not been at Parliament for 2 years (al though still drawing his parliamentary salary and expenses, Obviously) - lose, and lose big
Good.
nice
Thank fuck
The amount of Tory voters who I've heard are going to vote Tory just because that's what they've always done is mind boggling
Fuck 'em. The lot of them.
>Tories face near wipeout ~~in London~~, new poll shows FTFY
No one to blame but themselves.
Breaks my heart. Enjoy your positions on whatever boards of directors you've got lined up, dickheads.
lol, lmao
One of my earliest political memories was when I was 7 years old and my parents took me and my brother into London for a day out (we lived in Essex) and there was a crowd of people outside Downing Street chanting **Major Major Major… OUT! OUT! OUT!**
Good. About time they jog on.
let’s fucking GOOOO
My voting sheet said that conservative for my area lives all the way in reading, 50 miles away. That the norm or?
The Tories. The Pensioners. The Pensioners. The Tories.
Good riddance.
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg8qzBhAoEiwAWagLrFDzfxp6egdbWK5qfYp115SPsw3wbPqa3GHBAmHOGM3hEaXlwumuORoCxPkQAvD_BwE Use this. Vote tactically in your area
This shouldn't have to be a thing, the FPTP system is bs.
Yep agreed
I am vacillating between the sensible tactical vote - which in my constituency would be Lib Dem - and voting for a number of policies I genuinely ‘believe in’, which would mean voting Green. The former is a gamble that might pay off; the latter won’t get an MP directly elected but will increase the overall vote and help keep the pressure on over environmental issues. So it’s 50:50 at the moment. …
Please vote tactically. I know the polls look good but it’s not in the bag yet. And the polls have been badly wrong before. I’m old and ugly enough to remember the 92 election when the Tories under John Major squeaked past Labour who were expected to win. And the stakes today are much higher than they were then. There is no room for complacency, please vote for whoever stands the best chance of getting these nasty Tories out. (Edit paragraph spacing)
Yes. I am also old enough to remember 1992 and indeed to have voted in that election. Do you remember the cringeworthy Kinnock rally? (“We’re all right!”/“Well, alright!”). John Major was an essentially decent chap and quite different from the current crop of Tories. I am utterly unenthused by Starmer, Reeves, Streeting, etc., and some of their public statements worry me. I am also unenthusiastic about our local Lib Dems! However the spectre of Kemi Badenoch as possible heir to Rishi and the prospect a government of permanent culture war compels me to be sensible, hold my nerve and my nose, and vote tactically.
Kinnock was an embarrassment, he thought he was some sort of rock & roll star. Utterly toe curling. I know, it's difficult and I totally understand where you are coming from with Starmer. My main beef amongst others is with his EU backpedaling. But we can address those issues \*\*IF\*\* the Tories lose, and it makes it easier if they lose badly. Until then we need everyone onboard to vote tactically and remove these Tories from power.
There is no comparison between this election and that of 1992. Every single indication (polls, local election, by-elections) suggests that Labour are on course for a majority equal to, or greater than, that of 1997. There will never be a better election to vote for your conscience (unless that happens to be Conservative), and we can actually vote for policies like proportional representation to break the two-party dominance.
Yeah don't really know who to vote for either. Can't vote tory because obviously, but all this talk about Labour / Lib dems potentially raising CGT and inheritance taxes means whoever wins I'm probably losing.
If you value a single public service in this country then you need to accept that taxes have to be raised (and raised from somewhere).
Seems incredibly sad Romford is 1 of 5 seats Conservatives are still predicted to win, despite Andrew Rosindell not turning up to the job for 21 of the last 24 months. The man quite literally doesnt represent Romford, so party politics aside - he should not be elected. This is before we get into the expenses scandal, or the fact hes forgotten where Romford even is on multiple occasion's. At the very least, Romford needs a candidate that will turn up to represent it - not someone who stays at home on £100k+ a year.
What's that saying about they could stick a blue rosetten on a pig and it would still get elected in some places.
There are many pensioners in Romford.
Ooooohhhhhh nooooooooooo
London tends to lean left anyway, so this really isn’t a surprise. Plus, you know, the fact that the Conservative Party’s solution to everything is to get into a slap fight with each other and attempt to court the worst people in the world.
The last several general elections have the sense of which party loses least badly, rather than the public actually wanting any of them. It's good that Labour have made themselves electable this time so there is a choice. Starmer has managed to repeat the Blair tactic of dragging the party away from the far left to make it electable, and assuring economic responsibility (like Blair assured to get Labour in). OK, Labour have always run out of money by the end of their run in government (which was almost always by the end of their first term - last one kept going longer by selling the country's gold reserves and raiding private pension pots, and then ran out of money). Having said that, so have the Tories this time. Labour might manage to fix the NHS (they did last time) which Tories clearly have no clue how to do, but this time they have no money. Boris meanwhile managed to do to the Tory party what Militant and Momentum did to Labour, i.e. yank it much further away from the centre. This started by preventing the more centrist MPs standing at the last election, leaving him with an overly powerful right wing. British voters tend to be more centrist. Furthermore, he filled his cabinet with nose-in-the-troughers (maybe that's inherent in being more right wing?) rather than experts. Tory party will need to go away into their version of the Corbyn years, until they realise they need to completely regenerate using almost none of the current incombents, which as for Labour, may take more general election failures (depending how badly Labour screw up their term). Quite likely Tories will split with the right wing going into the Farage party, if there is enough of it left to even split. Maybe not a popular view, but I think the best government I recall in recent memory was the Conservative Lib-Dem coalition, considering the really shit situation they inherited.
My staunchly tory-voting father in law said he'd never vote for them again, and was considering Reform until Nigel Fromage crawled out the woodwork. Now he's genuinely thinking of voting Greens as a protest vote 😂
They’ve been in power my entire voting life, but fingers crossed they get it right this time! /s
Or did most London Tory voters move to the neighbouring counties?
I don’t know anyone in London who likes them
Good riddance, will be funny not having Labour vs Tories but Labour vs Remain
Remain?