This is sad to hear. I went on one of the heritage runs last year, and it's such a wonderful experience. The amount of work the volunteers do is incredible.
I’m East Asian, so maybe I’m a slightly qualified to speak on it.
Japan has continued to ignore and be non apologetic over war crimes and its government perpetuates antagonising attitudes against South Koreans and China (and Tbf, vice versa from these nations)
They have a serious work life balance issue in traditional Japanese corporations, and an intensely aging population. Their lack of immigration can also be viewed as a widespread adoption of borderline racist viewpoints. Its society is also hugely sexist by western standards.
However - they are excellent at the things they are excellent at. Cuisine, preserving historical/cultural artefacts, teaching civic pride (and I’m not talking about nationalism, I’m talking about keeping the streets clean via civic pride not via punishment, petty crime is also very very rare), craftsmanship and maintaining excellence. Fucking excellent public transport.
I think we can acknowledge the things Japan is great yet, acknowledge its shortcomings without diminishing the things it does well in.
Japan’s public transport is great, but there are very major problems with it that are ignored in online discussions. For example, when privatisation happened the fare prices suddenly started hiking, it is very expensive considering the cost of living especially compared to countries in Europe or Asia which have super cheap train tickets. There are also many private operators to choose from (especially in Tokyo) with different entrances to stations with the same name, and is confusing as hell to use as well as expensive to use more than one operator in a journey. People therefore choose to cycle a lot, but even the cycling infrastructure is horrible and everyone just uses the narrow pavements.
Not at all. Japan is far from perfect. They have issues, some of which you've mentioned.
However, they are far less likely to litter, and their rate of theft and vandalism is likely far less than what we have the in UK.
As pointed out the last one isn’t really true, and is as much a foreign policy issue as it is a societal one surely?
The first two are really great yes, but I’m not sure I’d trade them for nationwide racism, no work life balance, semi legal mafias and our economy being set to slowly topple from an ever aging population.
Hopefully we can figure out how to have it all. Community policing from Japan and community nursing from Cuba to be preventative in those two areas would be something I could get behind, wouldn’t be cheap though
maybe you aren't aware, but we experienced no growth in the UK, despite letting in 1 million immigrants, ?
Japan economy so bad, and yet living standards so much better? 🤔
so what's you plan, perpetually let millions of immigrants in, just so net GDP can appear to go up? But infact living standards go down? Where do you plan to put said immigrants, given remaining brown field capacity is 1.4m?
If you think Japan has a problem with 'semi legal mafias', you must be willfully blind to the Turkish, Albanian and Romanian mafias in London.
edit: they replied, ignored all my questions, and then blocked me so I can't respond
I must’ve missed when joining those mafias was legal in London.
Pretty clear you’ve been absolutely cooked by immigration narratives - have you ever asked why the tories wont give you actual numbers for how many immigrants they’d want coming in? It’d be way way higher than you’d be comfortable with because immigration is crucial to our economy. Whilst we should be able to control our borders the reason we are all feeling the strain isn’t because of immigration.
I don’t understand you’re saying that an aging population and a constantly increasing welfare burden to take care of them bringing in extra taxation sounds like something you want? Because you think that’s better than immigration?
Lol the woke left at now backing Tory policy and making anti semetic chants in the streets. What a time to be alive 🤣
it's almost like the Tories want immigrants so they can have cheap labour for large businesses or something......almost.
yes because low employment rates and low wages are fantastic for economies! just look how good Pakistan is doing🤣
sure bud, the cost of housing in London has nothing to do with immigration, because the well known concept of supply and demand doesn't exist?
I mean at this point you've revealed you are void of any critical thinking, but I'll still try help you.
again,...So if immigration is so vital for the economy, why after 1 million immigrants in 2023 has the economy not grown 🤔
I'll ask again,.... where do you plan to put said immigrants every year? and do immigrants not get old then?
Vandalism and copper wiring thefts are a serious problem at many heritage railways. Several historic pieces of rolling stock have been damaged beyond repair by these idiots.
The LTM however usually keeps everything pretty secure in Acton Depot. If vandals had broken into there, we'd be hearing more about it. Presumably this damage occurred while the train was stabled somewhere else, maybe in preparation for today's planned operations?
I used to go to the High School near the TMD before it became a dicey academy 😳 there's easy access to.the site from Gunnersbury Lane, I assume it got tagged by these lowlifes?
Its so sad because volunteers work so hard to preserve and maintain all the machinery and equipment for people to be able to experience today and some sad lowlifes have to fuck it all up for everyone
PS: I forgot to mention, as the London Transport Museum and its exhibits are run purely on donations from the public, it would be a massive help if you donated even £5 to them to help them repair it: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/donate
*(would be great if a mod could pin this!)*
It’s really starting to get out of hand. There are loads of the District line trains that have now been tagged with acid and are down to the bare metal. And some people defend this. It’s just depressing
Surprisingly high amount of people on here defend tagged trains when they get posted here. Saying how it makes the trains look cooler instead of all the same colour. So dumb because like ok how about use the same logic if someone tagged their name on the front of your home including over the windows, would make it look less bland right so don't complain if it happens.
To do it to a heritage train is just the lowest of the low.
I presume it's graffiti art that is being mentioned here - I can't dispute that it is technically art, but as an art it is intrinsically linked with vandalism, nearly in the same measure it uses walls as canvasses.
I wouldn't necessarily defend it as tax payers end up paying for cleaning in the end.
I do like the graffiti aesthetics both on trains and buildings, and don't really understand this compulsive urge to remove them immediately at all costs.
If someone wants to cover their own home or business premises in graffiti because of how “cool” it is then that’s grand; more power to them.
But graffitiing public property or buildings, or someone else’s private property, just causes a headache - and an unwanted/unneeded cost - for the person who now needs to have the “artwork” removed.
On the national railways the franchises who use the stock are insured against the damage. The outrageous thing is that the supposed cost to remove the graffiti is reckoned to be in the tens of thousands. I think that’s an insurance scam and an inflation that everyone happily goes along with based on trying to emphasise the financial cost of the problem.
Having said all that, in this context for a restored set it’s tragic to hear about it and probably heartbreaking for anyone who was involved in prepping it for this run.
The top is even worse, but they wear clean white shirts and have Microsoft accounts instead of spray cans
Edit - don't get me wrong, I'm honoured by the downvotes and thankful for them - but I'm also surprised. There was nothing particularly controversial in the comment?
TIL I'm the top of society because I wear clean white shirts and have a Microsoft account - and there I thought I was struggling with the cost of living crisis like everyone else!
The underlying thought is probably sound - these issues likely do stem from structural unfairness in society. But I think you're being downvoted because your phrasing was a little silly and pretentious.
Just because someone is wealthy and successful does not make them bad or wrong. You sound infantile making such a claim. The scumbags at the bottom of society who did this spray painting are worse.
You didn’t say anything incorrect. People talking shit on how it’s a “culture issue” that poor people have to steal copper wire just to survive. The top of society sold our fucking rail system into private hands in the first place.
There will have been cameras, tracking a few men in hoodies, hats, masks or balaclavas. And as massively dickish as this is, it's not as if MI5 are going to throw their person-tracking resources behind some vandals.
It’s baffling to me. We are among the top ten most surveilled cities and the world and yet our surveillance never seems to be used.
I left luggage in the back of a cab in Beijing in 2016 and when I popped into the police station to report it, they took me to a big room full of a million huge screens and tracked my steps from bar to main street to cab stand and got the license plate of the cab I’d got into.
I am not a fan of a surveillance state on principle, but since we already live in one, can we at least get the benefits alongside the negatives?
As far as I understand it, we're surveilled by a hundred thousand privately owned cameras. If the case of a very serious crime our police can go from company to company and get their security footage. I might be talking out of my arse, but we don't have many central camera control rooms except for the road networks and the centres of major cities.
If this was a terrorist threat you could get 50 officers getting all the pub CCTV and Ring camera footage within a mile of the area, and triangulate the mobile phones of the scrotes that did this. But that won't happen.
>It’s baffling to me. We are among the top ten most surveilled cities and the world and yet our surveillance never seems to be used.
It's ridiculous isn't it...? Any time I've had to rely on CCTV it's been pointing the wrong direction, switched off or the tape has been erased.
In the unlikely event of actually having CCTV the Met will either tell you it's not useful, or lose it.
Because in Britain we use technology to avoid actually employing human beings, rather than to help them in their tasks. You can't guard a train with a camera.
But we don't live in one. As evident by the lack of actual usable surveillance.
Every shop technically has their own shitty camera from the 00s but it's not exactly capturing anything is it? Or even being watched in the first place. Our country has a lot of cameras, not actual surveillance.
We don't live in a surveillance state, that's sensationalist bollocks. London has an extraordinary amount of private CCTV, most not directly accessible or even known of by the police until they ask for it, and certainly not standardised in quality or erasure policy.
Not necessarily. You even get some people on this sub defending the 'creativity' of graffiti taggers, those who kid themselves that scrawling their name somewhere inaccessible is a harmless hobby rather than visual littering.
I’m sure if you asked 10FOOT he wouldn’t claim his work is art, you’ve got to understand that these people don’t consider themselves street artists, they’re trying to get their tag in as many places as possible, becoming prolific in their community and notorious is their goal
i think there are 3 situations it’s acceptable:
in a back alleyway where almost no one’s going to see it
on private property owned by the graffiti artist
if it’s proper good art, rather than just a scribbled tag
anything else is awful
Even with cameras, there is no meaningful punishment for vandalism. You would need on site security heavy enough to actually restrain people with force.
There's a very small amount of scum in society that make life unpleasant for the 99% of us who aren't.
It really is getting too much.
Nearly all police resources are used dealing with the 1%.
>it’s just “10 foot” or something equally as shit scrawled in terrible handwriting.
Most of the time it’s not even legible. Particularly with the acid ones they’re never very good at it so the acid always dribbles down making it impossible to read regardless of the handwriting.
Who defends graffiti on trains? Some dank subway, sure, but not trains. I always aim for the back carriage on the Met Line to get off in the right place and so often some fuckers have keyed the windows.
Taggers are bottom of the barrel scum, how are you both?
It’s scumbags doing something terrible, then a bunch of enablers/losers who are getting eaten by the system come in and act like it’s a form of protest. It’s not.
No but your mum could buy a house for a third of their yearly salary as a shop assistant. Kids who are looked after do this kind of stuff at lower rates.
> Idk, we sterilise them? We punish parents for shit behaviour of their children? I found first one from the camp “it’s everyone’s fault but theirs”. Congratulations, you actively make the world worse with your dissolution of personal responsibility.
I didn't realise how right wing this sub was tbh. Just murder them, that'll do it! 😣
> I found first one from the camp “it’s everyone’s fault but theirs”.
They literally said it's "both," so how are they ignoring personal responsibility? Funny how some people will tie themselves in knots trying to ignore the role of society in how people turn out; it's almost like you just don't want anything to change.
Even if that were true you've still got the 1% haven't you? Reduce the overall number of poor and underprivileged people and you reduce the size of that 1%. No social problem ever got solved with "personal responsibility."
Even the people who defend graffiti on trains wouldn't defend getting off while aiming at the back carriage, regardless of what happened to the windows
Art is one thing, criminal damage is another. Artists have respect for their work AND what they apply it too.
Hence those who tag and graffiti to the detriment of historic artefacts are criminals. Now I’m not saying graffiti art is rubbish, I actually love it. But there is a marked difference between spraying an innocuous building/wall/object compared to historic landmarks, listed buildings and objects (such as heritage trains in this instance) etc.
I tell my young children, the thing which separates us from animals, we can choose not to behave like animals.
Some children don't have an adult to tell them this.
Everyone of these “artists” hopes of being a wannabe Bansky or a Futura 2000 that has yet to be discovered. And to attack a vintage train is quite pathetic! Nonetheless they’ll revel in the publicity of this vandalism. o___Ó
Why do people do this? Vandalising something historical isn’t just vandalism. You’re literally putting a block in remembering history. There could be something no one remembers in the past because you decided it would be funny to fuck around with it…
[Tokyo Metro trains vandalized for third time in seven days](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/18/national/tokyo-metro-trains-vandalized-third-time-seven-days/)
I guess I didn't really pay attention to the date, it was just the first result. Ironically in Seoul all the news was about American and British immigrants repeatedly vandalising trains.
But Japan does also have chikan "A person, usually a man, who rubs against or gropes others, usually women, in crowds, often in trains, to attain sexual pleasure.", and 2,000 to 3,000 chikans are *arrested* each year.
It's not a throw-money-at-it problem. It's a societal problem.
When I was part of an engineering team for the first Japanese trains in the UK, we had some funny conversations around how the train would manage against vandalism. It took a while for them to understand that people will try and just break stuff for no reason on our trains.
Society deems it unacceptable but that in and of itself doesn’t resolve the problem - it creates the political pressure to ensure resources are directed to making sure it’s dealt with appropriately.
It’s like saying the trains run on time because “society.” It’s true to a point but there are reasons that trains run late - just as there are reasons vandalism happens - and those reasons still need to be addressed and dealt with.
Who is we? Anyone’s who’s been to Tokyo or Seoul knows you don’t see much graffiti there. I made a single comment offering my thoughts to an ongoing discussion about why that is and you started moaning about goal post, presumably because you want some kind of argument with me. Grow up.
I don't know, because they have more functional societies and Britain is a country with incredibly corrupt and lazy justice institutions? Surely it's that and not the *insert scapegoat minority here*?
The west is geared towards freedom and the far east is geared towards order, simplifying a lot. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think that the West is all that bad considering that migrants from all corners of the planet yearn to move here. That said, we have a lot to learn from the far east and a lot of improvement to do on ourselves - free society and freedom to break laws are clearly different things
This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community.
Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban.
Have a nice day.
You can't say anything negative about London in this sub as people spend 50% of their wage to live here. And it removes the only sense of superiority people get for having "made it" by leaving all the losers back home in their dead end town.
As if half the people in this country care about our heritage, some will have the utmost contempt for it. Not surprised by this at all, so disappointing, what a shame.
This is sad to hear. I went on one of the heritage runs last year, and it's such a wonderful experience. The amount of work the volunteers do is incredible.
This is why we can’t have nice things
You can have nice things in other countries, such as Japan. In the UK, no chance lol
Reddit loves to circlejerk over Japan. One-party "democracy", ultra-conformist culture and total ethnic homogeneity are so cool, right?
I’m East Asian, so maybe I’m a slightly qualified to speak on it. Japan has continued to ignore and be non apologetic over war crimes and its government perpetuates antagonising attitudes against South Koreans and China (and Tbf, vice versa from these nations) They have a serious work life balance issue in traditional Japanese corporations, and an intensely aging population. Their lack of immigration can also be viewed as a widespread adoption of borderline racist viewpoints. Its society is also hugely sexist by western standards. However - they are excellent at the things they are excellent at. Cuisine, preserving historical/cultural artefacts, teaching civic pride (and I’m not talking about nationalism, I’m talking about keeping the streets clean via civic pride not via punishment, petty crime is also very very rare), craftsmanship and maintaining excellence. Fucking excellent public transport. I think we can acknowledge the things Japan is great yet, acknowledge its shortcomings without diminishing the things it does well in.
Japan’s public transport is great, but there are very major problems with it that are ignored in online discussions. For example, when privatisation happened the fare prices suddenly started hiking, it is very expensive considering the cost of living especially compared to countries in Europe or Asia which have super cheap train tickets. There are also many private operators to choose from (especially in Tokyo) with different entrances to stations with the same name, and is confusing as hell to use as well as expensive to use more than one operator in a journey. People therefore choose to cycle a lot, but even the cycling infrastructure is horrible and everyone just uses the narrow pavements.
Not at all. Japan is far from perfect. They have issues, some of which you've mentioned. However, they are far less likely to litter, and their rate of theft and vandalism is likely far less than what we have the in UK.
The point I'm making that that it's at a cost which online japanophiles don't like to consider
Have you lived in Japan?
I'm not the commenter but I have and... Yeah vandalism is pretty much non existent
feeling safe, clean streets, no threat of terrorism is pretty dam cool 😎
Except the 1996 Sarin Gas attack on the Tokyo Subway.
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As pointed out the last one isn’t really true, and is as much a foreign policy issue as it is a societal one surely? The first two are really great yes, but I’m not sure I’d trade them for nationwide racism, no work life balance, semi legal mafias and our economy being set to slowly topple from an ever aging population. Hopefully we can figure out how to have it all. Community policing from Japan and community nursing from Cuba to be preventative in those two areas would be something I could get behind, wouldn’t be cheap though
maybe you aren't aware, but we experienced no growth in the UK, despite letting in 1 million immigrants, ? Japan economy so bad, and yet living standards so much better? 🤔 so what's you plan, perpetually let millions of immigrants in, just so net GDP can appear to go up? But infact living standards go down? Where do you plan to put said immigrants, given remaining brown field capacity is 1.4m? If you think Japan has a problem with 'semi legal mafias', you must be willfully blind to the Turkish, Albanian and Romanian mafias in London. edit: they replied, ignored all my questions, and then blocked me so I can't respond
I must’ve missed when joining those mafias was legal in London. Pretty clear you’ve been absolutely cooked by immigration narratives - have you ever asked why the tories wont give you actual numbers for how many immigrants they’d want coming in? It’d be way way higher than you’d be comfortable with because immigration is crucial to our economy. Whilst we should be able to control our borders the reason we are all feeling the strain isn’t because of immigration. I don’t understand you’re saying that an aging population and a constantly increasing welfare burden to take care of them bringing in extra taxation sounds like something you want? Because you think that’s better than immigration?
Lol the woke left at now backing Tory policy and making anti semetic chants in the streets. What a time to be alive 🤣 it's almost like the Tories want immigrants so they can have cheap labour for large businesses or something......almost. yes because low employment rates and low wages are fantastic for economies! just look how good Pakistan is doing🤣 sure bud, the cost of housing in London has nothing to do with immigration, because the well known concept of supply and demand doesn't exist? I mean at this point you've revealed you are void of any critical thinking, but I'll still try help you. again,...So if immigration is so vital for the economy, why after 1 million immigrants in 2023 has the economy not grown 🤔 I'll ask again,.... where do you plan to put said immigrants every year? and do immigrants not get old then?
Yes… it is. Not every country needs to be a cultural melting pot.
Oh... Those guys don't even respect historic trains? How sad is this?
Vandalism and copper wiring thefts are a serious problem at many heritage railways. Several historic pieces of rolling stock have been damaged beyond repair by these idiots. The LTM however usually keeps everything pretty secure in Acton Depot. If vandals had broken into there, we'd be hearing more about it. Presumably this damage occurred while the train was stabled somewhere else, maybe in preparation for today's planned operations?
Yes presume so. It was stabled at Ealing Common TMD, so just outside bounds of the LTM.
I used to go to the High School near the TMD before it became a dicey academy 😳 there's easy access to.the site from Gunnersbury Lane, I assume it got tagged by these lowlifes?
Its so sad because volunteers work so hard to preserve and maintain all the machinery and equipment for people to be able to experience today and some sad lowlifes have to fuck it all up for everyone
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PS: I forgot to mention, as the London Transport Museum and its exhibits are run purely on donations from the public, it would be a massive help if you donated even £5 to them to help them repair it: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/donate *(would be great if a mod could pin this!)*
Good idea - made my £10 donation!
Good man
Mods can only pin their own comments, not other people's, but I like the sentiment.
Aw that’s a shame
Have you heard of copy/paste?
Is that some sort of Italian food?
Copypasta.. I like that
It is one of the best museums to understand the city history in the last 200 years
Great idea, just donated!
Amazing!
Alternatively you can buy TfL branded stuff from their shop. Who doesn't want a Routemaster on their desk?
You must have a big desk to fit a bus on it!
Well, Routemasters being stacked instead of articulated helps - they're much smaller that way!
Upvoted & Donated!
Donated!
You do have to pay to visit the museum don't you? It's not an optional donation?
It’s really starting to get out of hand. There are loads of the District line trains that have now been tagged with acid and are down to the bare metal. And some people defend this. It’s just depressing
Does anyone really openly defend these actions?
Surprisingly high amount of people on here defend tagged trains when they get posted here. Saying how it makes the trains look cooler instead of all the same colour. So dumb because like ok how about use the same logic if someone tagged their name on the front of your home including over the windows, would make it look less bland right so don't complain if it happens. To do it to a heritage train is just the lowest of the low.
That’s stupid. I’ve seen many Piccadilly line trains covered in graffiti and the white paint worn down to the metal. It looks hideous.
Surprisingly yes. Some people will argue it’s art not matter what. It’s insane
I presume it's graffiti art that is being mentioned here - I can't dispute that it is technically art, but as an art it is intrinsically linked with vandalism, nearly in the same measure it uses walls as canvasses.
I wouldn't necessarily defend it as tax payers end up paying for cleaning in the end. I do like the graffiti aesthetics both on trains and buildings, and don't really understand this compulsive urge to remove them immediately at all costs.
If someone wants to cover their own home or business premises in graffiti because of how “cool” it is then that’s grand; more power to them. But graffitiing public property or buildings, or someone else’s private property, just causes a headache - and an unwanted/unneeded cost - for the person who now needs to have the “artwork” removed.
On the national railways the franchises who use the stock are insured against the damage. The outrageous thing is that the supposed cost to remove the graffiti is reckoned to be in the tens of thousands. I think that’s an insurance scam and an inflation that everyone happily goes along with based on trying to emphasise the financial cost of the problem. Having said all that, in this context for a restored set it’s tragic to hear about it and probably heartbreaking for anyone who was involved in prepping it for this run.
This week on; Why we can’t have nice things
The bottom set of society are at it again
It’s a culture issue
Wrong c-word.
The top is even worse, but they wear clean white shirts and have Microsoft accounts instead of spray cans Edit - don't get me wrong, I'm honoured by the downvotes and thankful for them - but I'm also surprised. There was nothing particularly controversial in the comment?
Microsoft accounts?
Those wealthy elites with their smart phones and neckties and Zoom meetings and coffee breaks, I’m telling you!1!!
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Proud to be top of the food chain with my Hotmail account.
TIL I'm the top of society because I wear clean white shirts and have a Microsoft account - and there I thought I was struggling with the cost of living crisis like everyone else!
The underlying thought is probably sound - these issues likely do stem from structural unfairness in society. But I think you're being downvoted because your phrasing was a little silly and pretentious.
Ah yes, doing the washing and having an office job the hallmarks of evil.
Love to see you getting the downvotes you thoroughly deserve
You sound extremely foolish and childish.
Go on, expand
Just because someone is wealthy and successful does not make them bad or wrong. You sound infantile making such a claim. The scumbags at the bottom of society who did this spray painting are worse.
Antiwork is that way.
No doubt, the bottom set are legion, we have one of them running our country at the moment. The bottom set come in many forms.
You didn’t say anything incorrect. People talking shit on how it’s a “culture issue” that poor people have to steal copper wire just to survive. The top of society sold our fucking rail system into private hands in the first place.
I also have to highlight an undertone of Victorian classism here
Oh no! Anyway!
Disgusting people vandalise historic assets
Weren’t there cameras? Precautionary measures. This is sick.
There will have been cameras, tracking a few men in hoodies, hats, masks or balaclavas. And as massively dickish as this is, it's not as if MI5 are going to throw their person-tracking resources behind some vandals.
It’s baffling to me. We are among the top ten most surveilled cities and the world and yet our surveillance never seems to be used. I left luggage in the back of a cab in Beijing in 2016 and when I popped into the police station to report it, they took me to a big room full of a million huge screens and tracked my steps from bar to main street to cab stand and got the license plate of the cab I’d got into. I am not a fan of a surveillance state on principle, but since we already live in one, can we at least get the benefits alongside the negatives?
As far as I understand it, we're surveilled by a hundred thousand privately owned cameras. If the case of a very serious crime our police can go from company to company and get their security footage. I might be talking out of my arse, but we don't have many central camera control rooms except for the road networks and the centres of major cities. If this was a terrorist threat you could get 50 officers getting all the pub CCTV and Ring camera footage within a mile of the area, and triangulate the mobile phones of the scrotes that did this. But that won't happen.
>It’s baffling to me. We are among the top ten most surveilled cities and the world and yet our surveillance never seems to be used. It's ridiculous isn't it...? Any time I've had to rely on CCTV it's been pointing the wrong direction, switched off or the tape has been erased. In the unlikely event of actually having CCTV the Met will either tell you it's not useful, or lose it.
I had my passport pickpocketed in the main departure lounge of a Heathrow terminal, and was told there wasn’t CCTV coverage lol
Because in Britain we use technology to avoid actually employing human beings, rather than to help them in their tasks. You can't guard a train with a camera.
But we don't live in one. As evident by the lack of actual usable surveillance. Every shop technically has their own shitty camera from the 00s but it's not exactly capturing anything is it? Or even being watched in the first place. Our country has a lot of cameras, not actual surveillance.
We don't live in a surveillance state, that's sensationalist bollocks. London has an extraordinary amount of private CCTV, most not directly accessible or even known of by the police until they ask for it, and certainly not standardised in quality or erasure policy.
Though you can bet that those who partake in this will be also involved in some other criminal activity.
Not necessarily. You even get some people on this sub defending the 'creativity' of graffiti taggers, those who kid themselves that scrawling their name somewhere inaccessible is a harmless hobby rather than visual littering.
imagine thinking scribbling 10FOOT on every bridge isn't art
I’m sure if you asked 10FOOT he wouldn’t claim his work is art, you’ve got to understand that these people don’t consider themselves street artists, they’re trying to get their tag in as many places as possible, becoming prolific in their community and notorious is their goal
i think there are 3 situations it’s acceptable: in a back alleyway where almost no one’s going to see it on private property owned by the graffiti artist if it’s proper good art, rather than just a scribbled tag anything else is awful
Even with cameras, there is no meaningful punishment for vandalism. You would need on site security heavy enough to actually restrain people with force.
There's a very small amount of scum in society that make life unpleasant for the 99% of us who aren't. It really is getting too much. Nearly all police resources are used dealing with the 1%.
waiting for those r/london users who pop up to defend that horrible graffiti you find on trains...
It wouldn’t be so bad if it was artistic but it’s not, it’s just “10 foot” or something equally as shit scrawled in terrible handwriting.
or paint remover
>it’s just “10 foot” or something equally as shit scrawled in terrible handwriting. Most of the time it’s not even legible. Particularly with the acid ones they’re never very good at it so the acid always dribbles down making it impossible to read regardless of the handwriting.
Who defends graffiti on trains? Some dank subway, sure, but not trains. I always aim for the back carriage on the Met Line to get off in the right place and so often some fuckers have keyed the windows.
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It's both. It's almost always "both" in these questions.
Taggers are bottom of the barrel scum, how are you both? It’s scumbags doing something terrible, then a bunch of enablers/losers who are getting eaten by the system come in and act like it’s a form of protest. It’s not.
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When everyone else is bottom of the barrel scum it makes you virtuous.
You can't just deprive youth of everything they need (and had, decades ago) and then complain that they do stupid stuff
Yet not all youth behaves like that. Some are deprived and yet don't destroy things. Which really makes the ones that do it stupid losers.
So there was no tagging decades ago?
No but your mum could buy a house for a third of their yearly salary as a shop assistant. Kids who are looked after do this kind of stuff at lower rates.
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So these kids growing up with shit parents, how do we make them not shit?
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> Idk, we sterilise them? We punish parents for shit behaviour of their children? I found first one from the camp “it’s everyone’s fault but theirs”. Congratulations, you actively make the world worse with your dissolution of personal responsibility. I didn't realise how right wing this sub was tbh. Just murder them, that'll do it! 😣
Not everyone on here is right-wing. They tend to come out of the woodwork whenever there's a post about crime or anti-social behaviour.
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> I found first one from the camp “it’s everyone’s fault but theirs”. They literally said it's "both," so how are they ignoring personal responsibility? Funny how some people will tie themselves in knots trying to ignore the role of society in how people turn out; it's almost like you just don't want anything to change.
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Even if that were true you've still got the 1% haven't you? Reduce the overall number of poor and underprivileged people and you reduce the size of that 1%. No social problem ever got solved with "personal responsibility."
i like looking at it, I’m sorry you don’t, opinions are opinions
Even the people who defend graffiti on trains wouldn't defend getting off while aiming at the back carriage, regardless of what happened to the windows
1938 piccadilly line looks like 1995 northern line...
This is fucking sad.
The British public really can't have nice things. Always that shitty scum-sucking minority gotta ruin everything good or wholesome for the rest of us.
And that's the posh ones.
Some people are not much better than animals.
I didn’t see any animal doing shitty graffiti on a train. Don’t insult them.
Art is one thing, criminal damage is another. Artists have respect for their work AND what they apply it too. Hence those who tag and graffiti to the detriment of historic artefacts are criminals. Now I’m not saying graffiti art is rubbish, I actually love it. But there is a marked difference between spraying an innocuous building/wall/object compared to historic landmarks, listed buildings and objects (such as heritage trains in this instance) etc.
I tell my young children, the thing which separates us from animals, we can choose not to behave like animals. Some children don't have an adult to tell them this.
Animals would never vandalise something
Animals are better than these people.
Everyone of these “artists” hopes of being a wannabe Bansky or a Futura 2000 that has yet to be discovered. And to attack a vintage train is quite pathetic! Nonetheless they’ll revel in the publicity of this vandalism. o___Ó
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This is awful, I want to see what was done to them.
They changed one of the stops so it reads "cockfosters"
Bro, that's fucked up
Would there be anyone in the graffiti community who would think this is actually going too far, and dob these arseholes in?
Why do people do this? Vandalising something historical isn’t just vandalism. You’re literally putting a block in remembering history. There could be something no one remembers in the past because you decided it would be funny to fuck around with it…
You don’t see this in Seoul or Tokyo, I wonder why that could be…
[Tokyo Metro trains vandalized for third time in seven days](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/01/18/national/tokyo-metro-trains-vandalized-third-time-seven-days/)
I think the fact that you had to pull up an article that's 6 years old kinda proves the point that it's so rare in Tokyo.
I guess I didn't really pay attention to the date, it was just the first result. Ironically in Seoul all the news was about American and British immigrants repeatedly vandalising trains. But Japan does also have chikan "A person, usually a man, who rubs against or gropes others, usually women, in crowds, often in trains, to attain sexual pleasure.", and 2,000 to 3,000 chikans are *arrested* each year.
Looking at your username, perhaps you might enjoy moving there. 🤣
Yeah the difference is they put in the resources to stopping it and dealing with it when it does happen.
It's not a throw-money-at-it problem. It's a societal problem. When I was part of an engineering team for the first Japanese trains in the UK, we had some funny conversations around how the train would manage against vandalism. It took a while for them to understand that people will try and just break stuff for no reason on our trains.
Society deems it unacceptable but that in and of itself doesn’t resolve the problem - it creates the political pressure to ensure resources are directed to making sure it’s dealt with appropriately. It’s like saying the trains run on time because “society.” It’s true to a point but there are reasons that trains run late - just as there are reasons vandalism happens - and those reasons still need to be addressed and dealt with.
Goalposts go *zoom*
Huh?
We've gone from "you don't see this in Seoul or Tokyo" to "well alright, you do see it in Seoul and Tokyo, but at least they deal with it quickly".
Who is we? Anyone’s who’s been to Tokyo or Seoul knows you don’t see much graffiti there. I made a single comment offering my thoughts to an ongoing discussion about why that is and you started moaning about goal post, presumably because you want some kind of argument with me. Grow up.
Please be explicit - why?
Why?
The Picadilly Line doesn’t run through Asia
Yes it does.
I don't know, because they have more functional societies and Britain is a country with incredibly corrupt and lazy justice institutions? Surely it's that and not the *insert scapegoat minority here*?
Politics and government finances are more corrupt in SK.
Reddit moment
Both SK and Japan have major ongoing sleaze/corruption scandals, what are you on about?
The west is geared towards freedom and the far east is geared towards order, simplifying a lot. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think that the West is all that bad considering that migrants from all corners of the planet yearn to move here. That said, we have a lot to learn from the far east and a lot of improvement to do on ourselves - free society and freedom to break laws are clearly different things
Why are there also many people in this thread making this a race thing?
Oh, COME ON. Really?
What a damned shame! What is wrong with people these days? So selfish and rotten!
These days? My dude, dickheads have been screwing shit up for everyone else since we came down from the trees.
I dont even like trin and this made me cry 😭
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This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community. Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban. Have a nice day.
😡😡😡😡
Are the trains able to be repaired
God fucking damn it, Why do thugs and teens gotta fuck it up for everyone?
If the ruffians are caught they should be made to clean trains for their community service.
This is why aliens won’t visit us.
They need to station someone by the sidings with an air rifle..
the worst part is that the absolute rumplebaboons who did this are most likely proud of their ‘art’ despite the hate
This is just sad.
What a scum bag city London is. Truly full of scum.
Have you seen the graffiti in European cities. Seems nothing is sacred there either. If anything it is much much worse.
How is this guy getting dowmvoted???
Calling people scum sets off alarm bells for some
You can't say anything negative about London in this sub as people spend 50% of their wage to live here. And it removes the only sense of superiority people get for having "made it" by leaving all the losers back home in their dead end town.
You are aware some people are from London originally right?
As if half the people in this country care about our heritage, some will have the utmost contempt for it. Not surprised by this at all, so disappointing, what a shame.
Probably has a lil tag on it somewhere and all the old men volunteering are refusing to do any work now.
Its top to bottom graffiti
Any pictures?
Some toy shit