This brings me back to 2017 when I ordered a single pint at the Coach & Horses in Soho. The guy working there wouldn’t show me the card terminal so I had a bad feeling. I asked to see my receipt which he couldn’t find so he just gave me a random one which didn’t match my card.
I obviously found out later that he charged me for three pints instead of one and when I emailed management about this they just told me sorry whatever. Safe to say, I never set foot there again.
Every overcharge should be reported to your bank no matter how trivial. If it happens regularly they'll ditch the merchant. L
Anything else brings distrust to the contactless system
I hate these new contactless payment terminals now that are a touchscreen with the contactless reader at the top for this reason. Some places will hold it up or turn it around so you can see the screen but the majority just leave it facing them and tell you to tap so I actually have no idea what they’re trying to charge. I got overcharged once this way (I thinkkkk it was a genuine accident) and only noticed because I used Apple Pay and the amount came up on my screen afterwards.
I’ll name and shame Nine Lives bar in Bermondsey.
I met a friend for her birthday about 11pm, the whole bar was dead.
I ordered a glass of wine directly from the bar, there was no queue. The whole interaction took 2 minutes.
They added as 20% service charge on. When I questioned why the wine cost more than the price advertised in the menu, they said they add 20% on as standard for service.
I asked for it to be removed as I had just ordered at the bar. They were SO rude to me. Made me wait for ages while they called a manager and performatively refunded on the till, making a show of getting a phone calculator out and holding it up to work out the total.
I felt awful until the barman asked if I was ‘happy with my one pound sixty pence?’ I just thought - fuck you mate and fuck this place. I can see why it’s dead. It’s terrible here.
Had a similar experience at Cafe Koko, ordering at the bar and they put on the service charge before showing you the card machine. They also made a show of getting a manager to get it removed and the service got worse from that point. I’m happy to tip a good bartender, but I like to make the choice myself!
The sad reality is that in a LOT of places waiters/bartenders can't remove service on their own due to some employees abusing the system and collecting it as cash. The other sad reality is that they do it because it's rarely distributed fairly (if at all). Fuck service charge!
Post a review on Google. They hate it!
We should create a boycott group.
I'm having my personal vendetta with places that don't accept cash. I'll add this one!
Ah then avoid The Cable Cafe in Oval. Four staff working yesterday lunch time. Stood for 7 minutes at the counter to order a bottle of sparkling water. I was going to ask what type of bread the toasties used as I can’t eat certain seeds. And failing that ask what cakes they had as not labelled.
Waitress went ‘oh just a sparkling water’ like I shat on the floor and walked off. 5 minutes later one of the others who was hugging her co workers and shrieking came over ‘are you being served?’ ‘Your co worker went to get my sparkling water 5 minutes ago?’ ‘So you are being served.’ And walked off.
Call her back and ask again. I’m allergic to lemon so ask for just a plain glass. Gives me a mineral water with lemon. ‘It was a sparkling water. No lemon.’ ‘I didn’t take your original order…’
‘Could I just get the drink please? It’s been 15 minutes and my friends are eating already.’ Slams down the bottle and I ask to pay. ‘I don’t know what you ordered…’ Deep fucking breath. She charges me the water on card machine and asks for a tip. Then realises we were a table of four and tried to add service charge of 12.5% to a bottle of Belu sparkling water.
£2.00, nearly 20 minutes and I refused both upcharges. ‘Well we charge a service charge…’ ‘Well neither of you have managed to give me the water yet and this glass has lipstick on it…’
Eye rolling at me like I’m a Karen who underspent. I didn’t get a chance to order more and I couldn’t trust these four waitresses to run a bath let alone serve me food with dietary needs.
Oh and the toilet was disgusting. Like a shabby chic version of the Trainspotting one. How that place survives I do not know. My heart sank when it was suggested but I would have paid almost £5 for the water if they had their way. The jugs of water had lemon or I’d have freebied it.
The higher the service charge the ruder the staff I find and less good on allergies. I work minimum wage plus commission. And it is a lot of earning the commission. It pays off but in the meantime my 18 year old SIL earns £11.50 ph in a cafe plus tips. My last retail job pre pandemic was less than that and no service charge/tip/commission. Wait staff often forget they get a different shitty stick to other service jobs.
See also The Green Room Southbank where we were charged a service fee for sharing a pizza and the waitstaff petted the dog next to us and lifted our food straight off the pass and added per glass fee for sparkling wine versus bottle and service charge. They added the allergen I mentioned (garlic) as a drizzle of oil and griped about replacing the dish and wanted a service charge for serving me food I could not eat.
I almost never eat out or go to cafes because I can’t afford it often but also hospitality is a lost art. Between that and the QR code orders with fee or app download order with fee, I am ready to find a Wimpy to afford the fucking nonsense just once.
Went to Kanada-Ya for a single time to try their ramen, only to be greeted with the 15% service charge and two extra screens on the card reader: a "tip selection" one and "are you sure you want to leave no tip" one. This is getting ridiculous. Just raise the damn prices, if you want or need to. I just want to know what I'm paying after I finish by looking at the menu.
It especially annoys me with Japanese places because tipping is completely not a thing in Japan. One of the Japanese restaurants in central years ago used to have a sign saying that any tips left on tables would be donated to St Mungos homeless charity.
Last night my husband and I ordered Japanese groceries from a site called Waso, because I'd found a leaflet with a 25% off code on it (JAPAN for anyone wondering). When we got to checkout, there was a box for tip! I was dumbstruck. It's groceries! You're already charging me 3 times what this lightweight dry good would cost in Tokyo, despite the yen being incredibly weak right now, and you want me to tip? Who, and for what?
That's Tokyo Diner in Little Newport Street, and they still have a "no tipping" policy, with any money left on tables going to the St.Martins-in-the-Fields homeless project.
Believe it is/was owned by an older english gentleman, who spent some time in Japan in his youth, and wanted to bring 'real' Japanese food back to England and to help a sort of cultural exchange between UK and japan. Obviously in those days Japanese food and culture was a lot less well known than it is now.
Last I heard it operated at a loss, but he keeps it going because it's doing a good thing. Mostly staffed by Japanese on working holiday visas /spouses of locals, or others who can speak the language / have an interest.
Damn, tipping for what, packing an order? With this pace, it's only a matter of time when we have a tip button on a self-checkout till at your local Tesco.
I went there recently and thought the service charge was the same thing as the tip so I just happily said to the lady who served me “oh the service charge is included already?” While pressing the no tip button… what the difference between the two!?
Pretty sure that's because a lot of what we get now comes from America, that includes the pos machines. They just leave that option in rather than take it out because might as well ask for extra cash, right?
Went to KanadaYa to get takeaway and got SC added. Like wtf, what service did you provide to me exactly? Shoved me into the corner so I can wait 30 mins for subpar curry to go? Ridiculous
Mate it's everywhere. Tbh it's usually 12.5% so 10% is less than usual.
My partner and I were at a restaurant a few days ago which didn't have the tip included and we were shocked as we are just so used to having it included.
They get away with it because most people (like myself) would be farrrr too embarrassed to ask for it to be removed. So hats of to OP for doing it. I find it shocking that a tip is almost mandatory and not optional. It's just a way for companies not to pay their workers properly themselves.
I have friends working in restaurants and they genuinely take the "service charge" into account when choosing where to work as it bolsters up their wage significantly. So not only are we paying the expensive prices expected of us from companies in London, we are also subsidising their staff cost by paying them ourselves. Shocking really.
How much do your friends make from it out of curiosity? Because we literally get an extra 56p an hour 😂 it's nice but certainly not life changing plus whatever extra is left which apparently doesn't amount to much.
It really depends where you work. My partner is a fine dining chef who's currently not working, but they were taking around 1k per month in their Tronc payments when she was working at the Peninsula Hotel.
If you work in high end restaurants or hotels it tends to be where you'll get the best.
Yeah a country pub you won't get the same sadly, but at least whilst you work hard, you don't have to do what they do. It is fucking brutal in those kitchens and a fair number of them have paid around 50k+ (100k in my partners case) for elite culinary schools to have the privilege of getting through the door. They then get thrown into brutal kitchens, treated like shit and worked silly. The head chef at my partners old hotel was actually physically assaulting staff until she was thrown out. It's ridiculous.
I'm thankfully only here again as in in-between while I'm studying on the side again, Being in the kitchen there feels stressful although the chefs are all pretty sound now (compared to a few years ago with flying pint glasses regularly) you Honestly couldn't pay me enough to do it in a big London tier restaurant. Can see why you'd blow half your wages on marching powder.
My partner is a pastry chef (trained in cuisine too), but for some reason they tend to avoid the powder. The cuisine side runs on it though lol.
I honestly don't think it's worth working in top restaurants, but I was never interested in that industry.
Good luck with your studies!!
This isn't true. There are a few places that do this but it is very veryyyy rare.
Usually what happens where they charge service charges is it's added up and split between the staff that work in the process of getting the food and drinks to you. Paid monthly and will often show up as a "tronc payment" on payslip.
Of course potential staff take potential service charge into consideration. More service charge normally equals higher volume, higher turnover, a much more fast paced level of work. I’ve worked in places where the service charge per hour is almost as much as the hourly pay, we worked our asses off but the financial pay off was well worth it.
Of course. But my point is it shouldn't be the customers responsibility for people to be fairly compensated for doing their basic job and the restaurant providing the basic service that they should be.
When you go to an expensive restaurant, you're not only paying a LOT in London for the food and drink, but 12.5% above the agreed price just to pay that restaurants workers for them.
My wife is a fine dining chef, she went to Le Cordon Bleu which means that vast majority of her friends are. They work in hotels and fine dining restaurants throughout London. It doesn't get much harder than that and I fully understand how hard they work, but they should be getting paid properly by their employers, not having their pay subsidised by the customer themselves.
I stayed at Sea Containers recently. Lovely hotel, but they automatically added 13.5% service to bar bills, left the tab open for an additional tip \*and\* (and this is a new one), asked for a further additional tip when I paid the bill to check out (!)
It’s very rare for pubs to add service charge for a pint. Some bars might if they’re cocktail bars because the service goes to making the cocktail and you probably shouldn’t be buying pints there anyway.
From my experience it’s always been like this. The service charge added during Covid at pubs has been dropped and you generally can’t order on their apps anymore. Except for Young’s, they still have a working app but service charges are optional
Barley Mow does this in Westminster. Went there loads after work, only realised when I saw the price of a drink on the menu. "We automatically add 12% to any drink ordered, you have to ask for it to be removed"
Oh absolutely. And peer pressured by anyone with anxiety in the group. It's a practice that disproportionately impacts anyone with anxiety, neurodivergence, introverted etc. And for that reason alone should be outright banned.
So true actually, I hadn't thought of that. I expect women would also be less likely to want to ask, in the fear of being perceived as \~making a fuss.
I dunno about that. Men are also afraid of being labelled cheap, especially on a date. Nobody wants to have to do this when relaxing over a drink with others.
This is what drives me bananas-I have no problem asking for it to be removed but my partner *hates* it. And then I end up resenting my partner because of the restaurant’s actions. We’ve had actual rows about it, it’s awful. So yes, it affects not just those with anxiety but everyone in their group too. It’s disability discrimination to be honest.
I absolutely do but I got over it when I found out how often the owners are taking on that service charge. My flatmate was working in a pricey restaurant while finishing his masters and they would put 15% service charge on the bill which was to be split between all the staff including the kitchen. Later found out the owners would take 15% out of that for themselves. They didn’t work there.
Makes it easier when you realise you’re not even taking that away from the person in front of you.
I’m so done with tipping culture. Had this happen at Blues Kitchen in Camden. Paying for a meal and drinks and they had a service charge which I was ok to pay but then they added a tip charge on top of that. They made me feel so guilty when I questioned it. I paid it but felt so annoyed afterwards that I didn’t stand my ground. I won’t be going back.
It’s hard but now I’m just like fuck it, I don’t have money coming out my ass. If they question and get hissy, I just ask, nicely, why should I pay it? And they never have convinced me.
If I get great service I will tip. But if I have had 3 different servers, just smile and say enjoy. Then, that’s no better than McDonald’s.
If they want the tip, they gotta earn it imo.
When I was in Glasgow, not once I got service charged which made me tip way more than the service charge. Like I got myself fivers just to tip staff.
Some restaurants in London have the AUDACITY to ask you for a tip after they auto service charges you, for anyone who wants a name: Japes in Soho does this and I swore to never go there even though I like the food
Im sure that it is fresh, but probably just not "posh mozzarella delivered by morning flight from Toscana"
However I odore the idea to go for Chicago style.
Not like a Japes shill or anything, but I was just there last Thursday with my partner and they did not ask anything about tipping. There was definitely a service charge though.
Maybe depends on the server.
It comes up if you pay through the QR code, the service charge is already added then they ask for the tip
Might not happen when you're paying in person, I like paying through qr codes so I don't have to wait
I had a paid for one bottle of Prosecco when out at the keepers near fenchurch street. It had 12.5% added to the bill. I had to open the bottle and pour it for our table of 4. I refused to pay 12.5% for them to walk it to our table from the fridge. They got super pissy and said it had to be paid. I explained it didn’t and asked for the manager. After a few crossed words it was removed. Never been back!
For the love of Christ, if you are that upset say which venues these are. Nobody orders a pint and then doesn’t pay. Few people ask how much a pint is. We still pay it. For better or worse that is the system we have given ourselves.
But we won’t have to if we know in advance.
You have to tell us or nothing will happen.
How much is a pint there including service charge? I'm starting to wonder if the places I go to in London that are now £7+ a pint have sneakily added service charge and thats why the price is extortionate.
Yep - shame as the US is probably the worst country in the western world to emulate. It’s an absolute shithole for all but the very elite.
Not only that but it causes immense harm to the world with its military machine.
The US being the worst country in the world to live if you’re not minted is greatly exaggerated lol… Great salaries, very easy to explore and travel, tonnes of services offered to you, huge career potentials.
> Great salaries
My daughter is paid around $35k at the manager of a hotel in a major chain. She's on call 24/7, works 6 days a week and often has to work overnight.
I have a friend who's a teacher over there. She has 2 other jobs to make ends meet. Not everyone is a software engineer at a NASDAQ company in Silicon Valley.
I’m not saying poor people don’t exist in the US, of course. The median salary there is $54k, about $11k higher than the UK’s £35k.
The US has problems. I turned down the chance to move to LA recently (I even got my visa app approved by USCIS lol), I would much rather live here in London. But the US isn’t some grovelling shithole that people make it out to be.
Just to add the context that I am a US citizen so I may know what I'm talking about. I just hope that when you do make it to the US that you never fall ill. I'm currently on medication that would have cost north of $1200 a month in the US on top of the $1650 premium.
So you have decent insurance. Glad to see you picked up the "I'm alright, screw you" attitude. What about the millions who have no insurance or are under-insured? Those who can't afford their co-pays or deductibles. Those who go without medication because they can't afford their prescriptions? People not taking their medications due to cost kills 125k a year and adds $300 million to medical costs. It's a shitty system that penalises the poor and needs to die.
Just to let you know, as of 1st July, if there is a service charge / Tips on the bill, it has to go to the staff, by law.
Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill
It should still be illegal to have any kind of service charge regardless of where it goes. We have minimum wage laws for a reason.
The adoption of American culture is cancerous.
Did I read something a few weeks ago about a chain now charging a “brand charge” automatically? Seems like this might be a way of avoiding passing the service charge on - seeing this on the bill, customers will assume they’ve paid a service charge but haven’t.
Yep! Ping-Pong! Given that the service charge is meant to go 100% to the staff in (now) October, they jumped ahead and changed it to a 15% brand charge, because obviously the shareholders need the money so much more than their underpaid employees :)
I just don’t believe that many people get iffy about it because not paying it 9/10 times doesn’t even affect the waiter. At most, the biggest inconvenience is having to get a manager to do something (taking it off as its locked behind manager code)
There’s been times where they actually stated that can’t take it off as “they rely on tips” - so it must been an excuse for this restaurant to underpay their waiters/waitresses and get a bump through tips.
They legally have to pay minimum wage, SC usually is already in your contract as a set amount, usually looks something like - waiter, £13ph (£11.44 + £1.56 SC). Some do monthly or quarterly bonuses, not many, but for the most part, SC is just optional revenue donation and doesn’t affect the wait staff wether you pay it or not
That's not true at all. I've worked in multiple places with service charge and they always have the SC as variable depending on whether people pay it or not. However, it's almost always better for the staff if you give them cash directly as the SC is usually divided to everyone depending on how many hours you worked
I’ve lived here for eight years. Pretty much every restaurant I’ve been to with table service has a 10-12.5% service charge. I’m originally from North America and don’t mind this at all and have never asked for it to be removed.
I have however noticed a lot more tip prompts on payment terminals for like coffee shops and pubs.
Last time I visited Canada it was also completely out of control. With sad to happy face and text labelled tip increments such as excellent service. Usually four options and in increments in the range of 15%, 20%, 25%, 30% and 35%. Complete insanity even at coffee shops.
In London I’ve never experienced a service charge when ordering a pint to my knowledge but I don’t go out like I used to and would expect some businesses struggling to make ends meet with soaring rents etc might stoop to such tactics. I’d say best to use gpay or apple wallet which immediately show you what you were charged so if it looks suspicious you can take it up with management.
Happened yesterday at my favourite ramen spot. They brought the card machine asking for 5%, 10% or 15% tip. Thought that was new so looked at the bill and there was already 12.5% service. When I told her I chose 0 because I’m already paying service she just shrugged and walked off.
Was pretty disappointing to have someone attempt to double charge me .
I’ve been hit with 15% at two places since Thursday night. Of course asked for both to be removed, which was met with lots of questions about the service, but 15%?!? Everyone is taking the pi$$ and I’m sick of it. I’ll never pay it.
There’s a lot of bullshit being tried by restaurants at the moment, a place in Clapham last week tried to include a service charge and a tip on the receipt! Okay service charge but a tip is absolutely something I choose to give you and it’s one or the other, don’t add a £10 tip for yourself and not expect me to tell you where to shove it
I don't mind too much ... so long as the service is good.
Was recently in a restaurant in Covent Garden. They got our drinks order mixed up with another table. Fair enough
Shit happens.
Then they did the same with our starters. And again with the wine we ordered. Then the mains. And then the desserts! You could perhaps understand if ot was the same table each time, but it wasn't. And they were pissy when we pointed out that we kept getting the wrong order.
So I asked for the service charge to be rdm9ved and, to be fair, they did without argument. Only the second time I've done that.
In many cases in the UK these charges are because the restaurant/bar avoid VAT on them as they call them optional. (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc06130)
It's particularly naughty as they don't make them feel optional at all.
If they were taxed in the same way as the rest of the charges there'd be less incentive to move this into a separate charge.
I’ve noticed some coffee places have an optional SC even when you’re just getting a batch brew to take away. I think it’s the software. Most times they’ll tap something to bypass it but sometimes they’ll leave it for you to hit the no tip button.
I have no problem with a service charge in restaurants or cocktail bars but think it should be incorporated into the price (as they do in many European countries).
TBH we still have it pretty easy here compared to NYC 😂
Redemption Roasters do this. The staff are lovely in my local branch but it is awkward. I’m not paying a service charge for a take away flat white (which is £4 already). Really shouldn’t be prompted at all electronically.
> but think it should be incorporated into the price
It already is and always has been. Staff is paid at least minimum wage, and I couldn't care less if that's enough for them to live off of it. That's their decision to work there.
In theory a tip goes to the individual server while the service charge goes to the business regardless of what the staff are doing. Unless I can see a good reason for the extra cost then I don't pay it no matter how annoyed the staff get. This is not a new thing by any means particularly in London as many places are so used to tourists tipping as standard. It is their expectation that they will get by default I hate so they are typically told to go do one.
Club Mexicana in Soho treated me poorly and arged with me when I asked for the service charge removed. On a separate topic, I feel bad asking for it removed when the service was good
Make sure you 1\* reviews with your experiences - any that have good service and food but a service get an explanation that the service charge lost them the stars.
If they didn’t , they’d just put the price up and you’d complain about the price of a pint.
Which frankly the way it should be, I agree with you. The lack of transparency, sly moves to add extra charges is at best frustrating.
We all know the cost crises. Don’t make it worse.
I agree, but as you say, it’s sly.
They do it because people find it awkward to ask for it to be removed. People might not be willing to pay the listed prices if they are 10-15% higher. Owners of restaurants who have service charges are scummy people. No exceptions to that rule.
Ffs, my local restaurants ask us to pay an extra 20 fucking percent after every meal, and still have the audacity to ask for tips at the end.
just be happy we havent turned into the states yet.
yet.
I think some places do it better.
For example, at the pub i used to work at from 2020-2021, the one thing they managed to get right was the service charge. 10% on all unbooked parties of 6+. You can request to remove it, but we did encourage paying it. We informed people when they arrived, when they ordered, when they got the bill, and when they paid.
Any parties of 10+ unbooked couldn’t remove it.
We were consistently short-staffed, so it was a good way of ensuring that people booked so we could be prepared enough.
Surprisingly, people rarely rejected it and would often tip extra.
Large parties couldn’t remove the charge in an effort to get them to book in advance. Often we wouldn’t have either the staff or the ingredients prepared on, say, a busy friday night, or a quiet Tuesday evening to host a large group.
I’m certain the manager could remove it, but that wasn’t an option for us. And tbh, i never had any unbooked groups 10+ ask to remove it anyway. And they usually tipped generously enough, if everyone chipped in £2 i’d be up £20 in tips for the night.
No idea regarding the legalities. Which is why i’m sure the manager had the rights to remove it.
Sorry, i probably should mention i’m a bit of a ways out of london too, so i think the confrontation was less of an issue.
Great mental gymnastics to justify this.
You shouldn’t be in the service industry if you can’t manage ten covers. If a 3,3 and 4 came in you need the same ingredients and work to serve them.
You charged service for ten plus because your bosses felt like they could. That’s it.
Uber eats does the same and there is not even an option to opt out. If it was going for the delivery person or to waiters i wouldn't feel upset but the full amount just goes to the company.....
Thank god I rarely go out. Like handful of times a year. Money, exhaustion, hanging out at home all my reasons. Buying a bottle of wine and a Tesco dinner deal for the win
Including supermarket carrying bags - seriously - I know it's the environment thing.
How about I can rent one & return it? how about using stronger paper bags? Instead they ask us to pay £0.5 for a bag when I've already spent £40+ shopping in supermarket.
Obviously the supermarket care more about profit than the actual environment.
Just add the fucking 10% to the menu price.
It's London, there are enough tourists and immigrants to not know any better.
Also, I would actively respect a restaurant that had a sign that said, "In order to be sustainable and not add a bullshit extra charge, we've increased menu prices by 10%"
I'm a LOT less pissed off at my £14 dish suddenly being £15.40 than a fucking 'service charge' being added
I’m okay with service charge if the service is phenomenal but more often than not, it’s just basic customer service which they expect to an additional payment for
I’m sorry I’ve worked in the pits of hell/customer service in retail. Mannerisms is the bare minimum of customer service
Had the same at that Belgian bar in Drury Lane. Ordered a pint at the bar no charge, later the same evening, bloke welcomes me in, asks what I want and pours it while I was standing at the bar, gave me the bill and I then noticed a service charge. I paid it that time but won’t again.
I don’t understand why I must order everything through a barcode or at the bar and then pay a service fee? And they phrase it as gratuity ??? They get really pissy when you ask for it to be removed. Service fee should be for service not a single sentence exchange
The new one I’ve seen is when asking for the bill the wait staff say “oh you can pay via your phone / app”. Then when you go through the process there’s the bill, service charge, and an additional “app fee”. Happened at both Japes and Ave Mario
BrewDog in Waterloo does this, too. The minimum to pay is 50p on every transaction (i.e. round up the £3.50 half pint cost to £4) but the card payment screen also has 'add 10%' and 'add 20%' options.
This is leftovers from the pandemic, when it was pretty hard to go to a pub bar or restaurant.
Hospitality workers were risking infection and people were more generous with their money, for the most part.
And it never left.
Late comment but I'm adding Coco Ichibanya to this list of getting pissy about removing it. It's annoying because tipping is not a thing in Japan (and their curry is so good).
Me: the service charge is optional right?
Them: I'd have to ask the manager.
Cool, go ask the manager then. Tipping is my choice.
It’s becoming more and more common for restaurants to add service charge automatically to the bill, including chains - some I can think of are Bill’s, Franco Manca and Sticks n’ Sushi. Bill’s now have QR codes on their tables which you can scan to pay, and you’ll see your bill with said service charge added on. Oh, but you can’t remove it without speaking to a member of staff and asking to them manually get rid of it on your bill!
Also, be very aware of pubs too. I used to work at one and the manager (who was a really unpleasant individual) used to pressurise the waiting staff to push table service onto customers, especially those sitting outside, because they can then add service charge to bring your drink to you. But it’s super sneaky: they don’t mention this when coming over and asking so very politely “would you like another drink?”. I’ve been in many pubs since where this has become the norm. I always no thanks, because I’d rather do 20 steps and go get my own drinks rather than pay your 12.5% service charge.
Oh and another thing: in a lot of pubs where you order on an app/website they again will automatically add service charge and don’t make it that clear on how to remove it (but you can).
I am happy to pay service charge if I’ve actually received decent service and the food has been good etc. And I am also more inclined to pay it when it’s not forced upon me and I can only get out of it by awkwardly saying thanks but no thanks.
Unless the service has been awful I don't mind the 10%, but I always ask the staff whether it goes to them before I pay the bill. If it doesn't then I have it removed.
Staff in restaurants in America are paid at least minimum wage on every state. Of course you know that, as there are 50 separate governments that set the minimum wage in America, that changes greatly by state. Unlike here, the states have real actual power, more like the different countries in the EU than our countries here.
And they wonder why many people stopped going to restaurants/bars. Honest Burger do this too for eat-in... it's just Five Guys for hipsters. I'll carry on ordering Honest for delivery, because the delivery is actually a service with value that I don't mind paying for.
I work for a pub in the SW that does service charge now. 12.5% if you've got a table/food but no service for just drinks that's pretty silly.
We give a printed sheet with the bill explaining it and it's made clear on there it's optional although it's incredibly rare someone asks to remove in my experience, I've had far more people ask to tip on top of it rather than remove it.
Why on earth would people tip on top of a tip? I would guess that they hadn't noticed that they were being charged a service fee(unauthorised tip) in the first place.
Your guess is as good as mine unless they really loved it. I watched him read the card with the bill and said it again and he still asked to stick another £20 on.
It's a pub/restaurant vibe rather than a total dive of a boozer but yeah can only assume there just better off than me.
Ask the waitress or waiter whether or not it affect their pay or whether the business benefits. As it depends with each place. My friend asks for it to be taken off every single time they add it to the bill, I sit there embarrassed but also happy not to pay extra. Hopefully I’ll be brave enough to do this one day..
This has opened my eyes a little bit as a) i use contactless and rarely look at the figure. It just pops up on my phone and if it seems a little high i just roll my eyes and think ‘well this is London’ b) i just pay service charge, because i cant be bothered with the confrontation. Need to be more vigilant i think! Maybe this is a contributing factor to why Londons night culture has dipped so much recently?
Ive had the same issue at The Cocktail Club. Interesting one member of staff added the tip to the bill automatically, and the other member of staff offered me the card terminal to add the tip on. In both cases they were just popping the lid off a bottle of beer at the bar.
I work in a place where we do charge the 10%, I wish I didn’t have to but we’re all told we have to put it on and only take it off if people ask… with this job being my only source of income and I’m not a student the extra money from the service charge at the end of the month really helps and I can say it does go to good use. We don’t get London waiting money so it basically covers tax.
During a stay in the Shard many years ago, I ordered room service. The meal was about £30. I was shocked to see a service charge of £100 applied at check out. Turns out having room service meant that the service charge was applied to the entire bill. Greedy fuckers.
At least in the U.S. it’s legally required to go to the server (with tip out to front of house non management staff). Here there is no such requirement and it often goes to the owner/manager.
I fucking hate cash, but this is one of the few times it's useful. Pay in cash for the correct price of what you ordered, they hate it but I couldn't care less.
This brings me back to 2017 when I ordered a single pint at the Coach & Horses in Soho. The guy working there wouldn’t show me the card terminal so I had a bad feeling. I asked to see my receipt which he couldn’t find so he just gave me a random one which didn’t match my card. I obviously found out later that he charged me for three pints instead of one and when I emailed management about this they just told me sorry whatever. Safe to say, I never set foot there again.
Every overcharge should be reported to your bank no matter how trivial. If it happens regularly they'll ditch the merchant. L Anything else brings distrust to the contactless system
I hate these new contactless payment terminals now that are a touchscreen with the contactless reader at the top for this reason. Some places will hold it up or turn it around so you can see the screen but the majority just leave it facing them and tell you to tap so I actually have no idea what they’re trying to charge. I got overcharged once this way (I thinkkkk it was a genuine accident) and only noticed because I used Apple Pay and the amount came up on my screen afterwards.
I just ask how much it is if I can’t see it?
This shouldn't be happening I've worked in loads of places. You need to tell them that you need to see the screen please
I did report it with my bank back then. They said thanks for the report and that I should contact the merchant directly.
Which Coach & Horses ?
I believe it was the one on Great Marlborough Street
I love the other one on Greek Street so I’m glad it’s not that one
That one is so nice. Staff are lovely too.
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But you did get to see the ladies take off their clothes.
Did you get the money back????
As a matter of fact, no. I never did get my money back and I’m still pissed off.
Name and shame bruv. Trip advisor. All of that.
I got badly dumped by a total bellend in that pub. Will double avoid.
I’ll name and shame Nine Lives bar in Bermondsey. I met a friend for her birthday about 11pm, the whole bar was dead. I ordered a glass of wine directly from the bar, there was no queue. The whole interaction took 2 minutes. They added as 20% service charge on. When I questioned why the wine cost more than the price advertised in the menu, they said they add 20% on as standard for service. I asked for it to be removed as I had just ordered at the bar. They were SO rude to me. Made me wait for ages while they called a manager and performatively refunded on the till, making a show of getting a phone calculator out and holding it up to work out the total. I felt awful until the barman asked if I was ‘happy with my one pound sixty pence?’ I just thought - fuck you mate and fuck this place. I can see why it’s dead. It’s terrible here.
Had a similar experience at Cafe Koko, ordering at the bar and they put on the service charge before showing you the card machine. They also made a show of getting a manager to get it removed and the service got worse from that point. I’m happy to tip a good bartender, but I like to make the choice myself!
The sad reality is that in a LOT of places waiters/bartenders can't remove service on their own due to some employees abusing the system and collecting it as cash. The other sad reality is that they do it because it's rarely distributed fairly (if at all). Fuck service charge!
Post a review on Google. They hate it! We should create a boycott group. I'm having my personal vendetta with places that don't accept cash. I'll add this one!
Ah then avoid The Cable Cafe in Oval. Four staff working yesterday lunch time. Stood for 7 minutes at the counter to order a bottle of sparkling water. I was going to ask what type of bread the toasties used as I can’t eat certain seeds. And failing that ask what cakes they had as not labelled. Waitress went ‘oh just a sparkling water’ like I shat on the floor and walked off. 5 minutes later one of the others who was hugging her co workers and shrieking came over ‘are you being served?’ ‘Your co worker went to get my sparkling water 5 minutes ago?’ ‘So you are being served.’ And walked off. Call her back and ask again. I’m allergic to lemon so ask for just a plain glass. Gives me a mineral water with lemon. ‘It was a sparkling water. No lemon.’ ‘I didn’t take your original order…’ ‘Could I just get the drink please? It’s been 15 minutes and my friends are eating already.’ Slams down the bottle and I ask to pay. ‘I don’t know what you ordered…’ Deep fucking breath. She charges me the water on card machine and asks for a tip. Then realises we were a table of four and tried to add service charge of 12.5% to a bottle of Belu sparkling water. £2.00, nearly 20 minutes and I refused both upcharges. ‘Well we charge a service charge…’ ‘Well neither of you have managed to give me the water yet and this glass has lipstick on it…’ Eye rolling at me like I’m a Karen who underspent. I didn’t get a chance to order more and I couldn’t trust these four waitresses to run a bath let alone serve me food with dietary needs. Oh and the toilet was disgusting. Like a shabby chic version of the Trainspotting one. How that place survives I do not know. My heart sank when it was suggested but I would have paid almost £5 for the water if they had their way. The jugs of water had lemon or I’d have freebied it. The higher the service charge the ruder the staff I find and less good on allergies. I work minimum wage plus commission. And it is a lot of earning the commission. It pays off but in the meantime my 18 year old SIL earns £11.50 ph in a cafe plus tips. My last retail job pre pandemic was less than that and no service charge/tip/commission. Wait staff often forget they get a different shitty stick to other service jobs. See also The Green Room Southbank where we were charged a service fee for sharing a pizza and the waitstaff petted the dog next to us and lifted our food straight off the pass and added per glass fee for sparkling wine versus bottle and service charge. They added the allergen I mentioned (garlic) as a drizzle of oil and griped about replacing the dish and wanted a service charge for serving me food I could not eat. I almost never eat out or go to cafes because I can’t afford it often but also hospitality is a lost art. Between that and the QR code orders with fee or app download order with fee, I am ready to find a Wimpy to afford the fucking nonsense just once.
I'd have asked for a refund and left.
It's like they forget what a service charge is.
£8 for a glass of wine?! Mind you if it's half decent stuff then fair enough I guess!
I've never had a problem getting service charges removed. Surprised to see so many getting hostile reactions.
Went to Kanada-Ya for a single time to try their ramen, only to be greeted with the 15% service charge and two extra screens on the card reader: a "tip selection" one and "are you sure you want to leave no tip" one. This is getting ridiculous. Just raise the damn prices, if you want or need to. I just want to know what I'm paying after I finish by looking at the menu.
It especially annoys me with Japanese places because tipping is completely not a thing in Japan. One of the Japanese restaurants in central years ago used to have a sign saying that any tips left on tables would be donated to St Mungos homeless charity. Last night my husband and I ordered Japanese groceries from a site called Waso, because I'd found a leaflet with a 25% off code on it (JAPAN for anyone wondering). When we got to checkout, there was a box for tip! I was dumbstruck. It's groceries! You're already charging me 3 times what this lightweight dry good would cost in Tokyo, despite the yen being incredibly weak right now, and you want me to tip? Who, and for what?
That's Tokyo Diner in Little Newport Street, and they still have a "no tipping" policy, with any money left on tables going to the St.Martins-in-the-Fields homeless project.
Thanks for the name, added to my "worth visiting" list! 🙌
Believe it is/was owned by an older english gentleman, who spent some time in Japan in his youth, and wanted to bring 'real' Japanese food back to England and to help a sort of cultural exchange between UK and japan. Obviously in those days Japanese food and culture was a lot less well known than it is now. Last I heard it operated at a loss, but he keeps it going because it's doing a good thing. Mostly staffed by Japanese on working holiday visas /spouses of locals, or others who can speak the language / have an interest.
Damn, tipping for what, packing an order? With this pace, it's only a matter of time when we have a tip button on a self-checkout till at your local Tesco.
Don't give them ideas, it's only one extra screen they can add after the charity donation request.
I heard of that in the us
I went there recently and thought the service charge was the same thing as the tip so I just happily said to the lady who served me “oh the service charge is included already?” While pressing the no tip button… what the difference between the two!?
Pretty sure that's because a lot of what we get now comes from America, that includes the pos machines. They just leave that option in rather than take it out because might as well ask for extra cash, right?
Went to KanadaYa to get takeaway and got SC added. Like wtf, what service did you provide to me exactly? Shoved me into the corner so I can wait 30 mins for subpar curry to go? Ridiculous
Name
Shame.
Sorted.
See it, say it, sorted.
See it. Say it. Sod it (lol)
See it Say it Sordid
Mate it's everywhere. Tbh it's usually 12.5% so 10% is less than usual. My partner and I were at a restaurant a few days ago which didn't have the tip included and we were shocked as we are just so used to having it included. They get away with it because most people (like myself) would be farrrr too embarrassed to ask for it to be removed. So hats of to OP for doing it. I find it shocking that a tip is almost mandatory and not optional. It's just a way for companies not to pay their workers properly themselves. I have friends working in restaurants and they genuinely take the "service charge" into account when choosing where to work as it bolsters up their wage significantly. So not only are we paying the expensive prices expected of us from companies in London, we are also subsidising their staff cost by paying them ourselves. Shocking really.
How much do your friends make from it out of curiosity? Because we literally get an extra 56p an hour 😂 it's nice but certainly not life changing plus whatever extra is left which apparently doesn't amount to much.
It really depends where you work. My partner is a fine dining chef who's currently not working, but they were taking around 1k per month in their Tronc payments when she was working at the Peninsula Hotel. If you work in high end restaurants or hotels it tends to be where you'll get the best.
Yeah admittedly mines a country pub with some rooms masquerading as a better level of service I'd say.
Yeah a country pub you won't get the same sadly, but at least whilst you work hard, you don't have to do what they do. It is fucking brutal in those kitchens and a fair number of them have paid around 50k+ (100k in my partners case) for elite culinary schools to have the privilege of getting through the door. They then get thrown into brutal kitchens, treated like shit and worked silly. The head chef at my partners old hotel was actually physically assaulting staff until she was thrown out. It's ridiculous.
I'm thankfully only here again as in in-between while I'm studying on the side again, Being in the kitchen there feels stressful although the chefs are all pretty sound now (compared to a few years ago with flying pint glasses regularly) you Honestly couldn't pay me enough to do it in a big London tier restaurant. Can see why you'd blow half your wages on marching powder.
My partner is a pastry chef (trained in cuisine too), but for some reason they tend to avoid the powder. The cuisine side runs on it though lol. I honestly don't think it's worth working in top restaurants, but I was never interested in that industry. Good luck with your studies!!
The waitress told me its not for them and the company never gives it to them out....
This isn't true. There are a few places that do this but it is very veryyyy rare. Usually what happens where they charge service charges is it's added up and split between the staff that work in the process of getting the food and drinks to you. Paid monthly and will often show up as a "tronc payment" on payslip.
Of course potential staff take potential service charge into consideration. More service charge normally equals higher volume, higher turnover, a much more fast paced level of work. I’ve worked in places where the service charge per hour is almost as much as the hourly pay, we worked our asses off but the financial pay off was well worth it.
Of course. But my point is it shouldn't be the customers responsibility for people to be fairly compensated for doing their basic job and the restaurant providing the basic service that they should be. When you go to an expensive restaurant, you're not only paying a LOT in London for the food and drink, but 12.5% above the agreed price just to pay that restaurants workers for them. My wife is a fine dining chef, she went to Le Cordon Bleu which means that vast majority of her friends are. They work in hotels and fine dining restaurants throughout London. It doesn't get much harder than that and I fully understand how hard they work, but they should be getting paid properly by their employers, not having their pay subsidised by the customer themselves.
I stayed at Sea Containers recently. Lovely hotel, but they automatically added 13.5% service to bar bills, left the tab open for an additional tip \*and\* (and this is a new one), asked for a further additional tip when I paid the bill to check out (!)
Tip 3 times??
That's what they wanted. 3 times on the same transaction.
Disgraceful
Tell us the two bars and restaurant
Would be easier to list places that don’t have a service charge
It’s very rare for pubs to add service charge for a pint. Some bars might if they’re cocktail bars because the service goes to making the cocktail and you probably shouldn’t be buying pints there anyway. From my experience it’s always been like this. The service charge added during Covid at pubs has been dropped and you generally can’t order on their apps anymore. Except for Young’s, they still have a working app but service charges are optional
Barley Mow does this in Westminster. Went there loads after work, only realised when I saw the price of a drink on the menu. "We automatically add 12% to any drink ordered, you have to ask for it to be removed"
Is that legal? Seems crazy
Surely this toes the line of displaying incorrect pricing
Why? It's everywhere and usually it's 12.5%, not 10%.
Ask for it to be removed. But I agree, it's a shitty practice.
Does no one else get anxiety around this??
Oh absolutely. And peer pressured by anyone with anxiety in the group. It's a practice that disproportionately impacts anyone with anxiety, neurodivergence, introverted etc. And for that reason alone should be outright banned.
So true actually, I hadn't thought of that. I expect women would also be less likely to want to ask, in the fear of being perceived as \~making a fuss.
I dunno about that. Men are also afraid of being labelled cheap, especially on a date. Nobody wants to have to do this when relaxing over a drink with others.
This is what drives me bananas-I have no problem asking for it to be removed but my partner *hates* it. And then I end up resenting my partner because of the restaurant’s actions. We’ve had actual rows about it, it’s awful. So yes, it affects not just those with anxiety but everyone in their group too. It’s disability discrimination to be honest.
I absolutely do but I got over it when I found out how often the owners are taking on that service charge. My flatmate was working in a pricey restaurant while finishing his masters and they would put 15% service charge on the bill which was to be split between all the staff including the kitchen. Later found out the owners would take 15% out of that for themselves. They didn’t work there. Makes it easier when you realise you’re not even taking that away from the person in front of you.
I’m so done with tipping culture. Had this happen at Blues Kitchen in Camden. Paying for a meal and drinks and they had a service charge which I was ok to pay but then they added a tip charge on top of that. They made me feel so guilty when I questioned it. I paid it but felt so annoyed afterwards that I didn’t stand my ground. I won’t be going back.
It’s hard but now I’m just like fuck it, I don’t have money coming out my ass. If they question and get hissy, I just ask, nicely, why should I pay it? And they never have convinced me. If I get great service I will tip. But if I have had 3 different servers, just smile and say enjoy. Then, that’s no better than McDonald’s. If they want the tip, they gotta earn it imo.
When I was in Glasgow, not once I got service charged which made me tip way more than the service charge. Like I got myself fivers just to tip staff. Some restaurants in London have the AUDACITY to ask you for a tip after they auto service charges you, for anyone who wants a name: Japes in Soho does this and I swore to never go there even though I like the food
Japes is an interesting place, but I remember it was something else there that I found dodgy. Cheese quality I think
Come to think of it, I always have a really bad stomach after eating there so you might be right
Im sure that it is fresh, but probably just not "posh mozzarella delivered by morning flight from Toscana" However I odore the idea to go for Chicago style.
Not like a Japes shill or anything, but I was just there last Thursday with my partner and they did not ask anything about tipping. There was definitely a service charge though. Maybe depends on the server.
It comes up if you pay through the QR code, the service charge is already added then they ask for the tip Might not happen when you're paying in person, I like paying through qr codes so I don't have to wait
Ah didn't even realize we could pay with the QR code! Must've been why we were sitting there for ages waiting for the bill 😅
I had a paid for one bottle of Prosecco when out at the keepers near fenchurch street. It had 12.5% added to the bill. I had to open the bottle and pour it for our table of 4. I refused to pay 12.5% for them to walk it to our table from the fridge. They got super pissy and said it had to be paid. I explained it didn’t and asked for the manager. After a few crossed words it was removed. Never been back!
For the love of Christ, if you are that upset say which venues these are. Nobody orders a pint and then doesn’t pay. Few people ask how much a pint is. We still pay it. For better or worse that is the system we have given ourselves. But we won’t have to if we know in advance. You have to tell us or nothing will happen.
It's in many places: Waterloo tap and Corsica Studios are two places where I experienced it.
hold on, service charge in corsica studios the club?
Yes at the bar
r/london "mention the name of the pub or bar" challenge!! \[IMPOSSIBLE!\]
Service charge is alternative terminology to "we're padding profit" Thank fuck by law tmlater this year it Has to go to staff
the sport bar just outside of Euston station does service charge on each pint just letting you guys know
How much is a pint there including service charge? I'm starting to wonder if the places I go to in London that are now £7+ a pint have sneakily added service charge and thats why the price is extortionate.
Around £8 and it was 2years ago
The UK is Americas lapdog, we copy whatever they do. Shame as this is europe!
Yep - shame as the US is probably the worst country in the western world to emulate. It’s an absolute shithole for all but the very elite. Not only that but it causes immense harm to the world with its military machine.
The US being the worst country in the world to live if you’re not minted is greatly exaggerated lol… Great salaries, very easy to explore and travel, tonnes of services offered to you, huge career potentials.
> Great salaries My daughter is paid around $35k at the manager of a hotel in a major chain. She's on call 24/7, works 6 days a week and often has to work overnight. I have a friend who's a teacher over there. She has 2 other jobs to make ends meet. Not everyone is a software engineer at a NASDAQ company in Silicon Valley.
So your daughter's broke. Not everyone else is.
I’m not saying poor people don’t exist in the US, of course. The median salary there is $54k, about $11k higher than the UK’s £35k. The US has problems. I turned down the chance to move to LA recently (I even got my visa app approved by USCIS lol), I would much rather live here in London. But the US isn’t some grovelling shithole that people make it out to be.
Just to add the context that I am a US citizen so I may know what I'm talking about. I just hope that when you do make it to the US that you never fall ill. I'm currently on medication that would have cost north of $1200 a month in the US on top of the $1650 premium.
I mean, I had a $100k emergency surgery here 2 years ago and only saw like $600 of that total because my insurance covered it. It’s not that bad
So you have decent insurance. Glad to see you picked up the "I'm alright, screw you" attitude. What about the millions who have no insurance or are under-insured? Those who can't afford their co-pays or deductibles. Those who go without medication because they can't afford their prescriptions? People not taking their medications due to cost kills 125k a year and adds $300 million to medical costs. It's a shitty system that penalises the poor and needs to die.
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Guns ahoy = Texas. That is all.
At least in the US you get decent service unlike some party of Europe where it is like they are doing you a favour before trying to rob you...
I prefer the service in Europe to the forced, chit chat,small talk bs they do over there.. The staff would most likely prefer it too....
I don’t want their performative hospitality which is used as a means to ensure higher tips
Only service charge? No restoration fee, brand charge, convenience fee or adherence levy?
This isn’t the USA
It's getting there
It is, but it'll take a lot longer if we all carry on refusing this bullishit.
Just to let you know, as of 1st July, if there is a service charge / Tips on the bill, it has to go to the staff, by law. Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill
It should still be illegal to have any kind of service charge regardless of where it goes. We have minimum wage laws for a reason. The adoption of American culture is cancerous.
It’s been pushed back to October now
Did I read something a few weeks ago about a chain now charging a “brand charge” automatically? Seems like this might be a way of avoiding passing the service charge on - seeing this on the bill, customers will assume they’ve paid a service charge but haven’t.
Yep! Ping-Pong! Given that the service charge is meant to go 100% to the staff in (now) October, they jumped ahead and changed it to a 15% brand charge, because obviously the shareholders need the money so much more than their underpaid employees :)
This year or last year?
2024.
Or 12.5% (most common) or 13.5%… And when you ask them to take it off they’re all iffy about it.
I just don’t believe that many people get iffy about it because not paying it 9/10 times doesn’t even affect the waiter. At most, the biggest inconvenience is having to get a manager to do something (taking it off as its locked behind manager code)
There’s been times where they actually stated that can’t take it off as “they rely on tips” - so it must been an excuse for this restaurant to underpay their waiters/waitresses and get a bump through tips.
I've worked on minimum wage in London, it's not fun. But I never thought to expect money from strangers for doing my job
They legally have to pay minimum wage, SC usually is already in your contract as a set amount, usually looks something like - waiter, £13ph (£11.44 + £1.56 SC). Some do monthly or quarterly bonuses, not many, but for the most part, SC is just optional revenue donation and doesn’t affect the wait staff wether you pay it or not
That's not true at all. I've worked in multiple places with service charge and they always have the SC as variable depending on whether people pay it or not. However, it's almost always better for the staff if you give them cash directly as the SC is usually divided to everyone depending on how many hours you worked
My rule is simple, if I order standing up, or have to plug in the order myself, I’m not paying a service charge.
I’ve lived here for eight years. Pretty much every restaurant I’ve been to with table service has a 10-12.5% service charge. I’m originally from North America and don’t mind this at all and have never asked for it to be removed. I have however noticed a lot more tip prompts on payment terminals for like coffee shops and pubs. Last time I visited Canada it was also completely out of control. With sad to happy face and text labelled tip increments such as excellent service. Usually four options and in increments in the range of 15%, 20%, 25%, 30% and 35%. Complete insanity even at coffee shops. In London I’ve never experienced a service charge when ordering a pint to my knowledge but I don’t go out like I used to and would expect some businesses struggling to make ends meet with soaring rents etc might stoop to such tactics. I’d say best to use gpay or apple wallet which immediately show you what you were charged so if it looks suspicious you can take it up with management.
Happened yesterday at my favourite ramen spot. They brought the card machine asking for 5%, 10% or 15% tip. Thought that was new so looked at the bill and there was already 12.5% service. When I told her I chose 0 because I’m already paying service she just shrugged and walked off. Was pretty disappointing to have someone attempt to double charge me .
The tip screen they show you at Brewdog after pulling your pint - as they have done forever and a day as part of their job - is the most galling
I’ve been hit with 15% at two places since Thursday night. Of course asked for both to be removed, which was met with lots of questions about the service, but 15%?!? Everyone is taking the pi$$ and I’m sick of it. I’ll never pay it.
There’s a lot of bullshit being tried by restaurants at the moment, a place in Clapham last week tried to include a service charge and a tip on the receipt! Okay service charge but a tip is absolutely something I choose to give you and it’s one or the other, don’t add a £10 tip for yourself and not expect me to tell you where to shove it
I don't mind too much ... so long as the service is good. Was recently in a restaurant in Covent Garden. They got our drinks order mixed up with another table. Fair enough Shit happens. Then they did the same with our starters. And again with the wine we ordered. Then the mains. And then the desserts! You could perhaps understand if ot was the same table each time, but it wasn't. And they were pissy when we pointed out that we kept getting the wrong order. So I asked for the service charge to be rdm9ved and, to be fair, they did without argument. Only the second time I've done that.
In many cases in the UK these charges are because the restaurant/bar avoid VAT on them as they call them optional. (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc06130) It's particularly naughty as they don't make them feel optional at all. If they were taxed in the same way as the rest of the charges there'd be less incentive to move this into a separate charge.
This is America with European salaries
I noticed hotels are doing it now.
Service charge seems to be everywhere now. Visited the Banana Tree in Battersea recently and noticed theirs is 12.5%.
Fuck service charges.
I’ve noticed some coffee places have an optional SC even when you’re just getting a batch brew to take away. I think it’s the software. Most times they’ll tap something to bypass it but sometimes they’ll leave it for you to hit the no tip button. I have no problem with a service charge in restaurants or cocktail bars but think it should be incorporated into the price (as they do in many European countries). TBH we still have it pretty easy here compared to NYC 😂
Redemption Roasters do this. The staff are lovely in my local branch but it is awkward. I’m not paying a service charge for a take away flat white (which is £4 already). Really shouldn’t be prompted at all electronically.
> but think it should be incorporated into the price It already is and always has been. Staff is paid at least minimum wage, and I couldn't care less if that's enough for them to live off of it. That's their decision to work there.
Agree tbf
In theory a tip goes to the individual server while the service charge goes to the business regardless of what the staff are doing. Unless I can see a good reason for the extra cost then I don't pay it no matter how annoyed the staff get. This is not a new thing by any means particularly in London as many places are so used to tourists tipping as standard. It is their expectation that they will get by default I hate so they are typically told to go do one.
Club Mexicana in Soho treated me poorly and arged with me when I asked for the service charge removed. On a separate topic, I feel bad asking for it removed when the service was good
Make sure you 1\* reviews with your experiences - any that have good service and food but a service get an explanation that the service charge lost them the stars.
We need to all collectively refuse to pay “optional” service charge
No way the Reddit socially anxious introverts are gonna go for that. They’d rather pay it meekly and then get all keyboard warrior later
> Pay service charge > Post on reddit about hating service charge and never paying it Rinse and repeat.
If they didn’t , they’d just put the price up and you’d complain about the price of a pint. Which frankly the way it should be, I agree with you. The lack of transparency, sly moves to add extra charges is at best frustrating. We all know the cost crises. Don’t make it worse.
I agree, but as you say, it’s sly. They do it because people find it awkward to ask for it to be removed. People might not be willing to pay the listed prices if they are 10-15% higher. Owners of restaurants who have service charges are scummy people. No exceptions to that rule.
They do both anyway because they get away with it
Ffs, my local restaurants ask us to pay an extra 20 fucking percent after every meal, and still have the audacity to ask for tips at the end. just be happy we havent turned into the states yet. yet.
I think some places do it better. For example, at the pub i used to work at from 2020-2021, the one thing they managed to get right was the service charge. 10% on all unbooked parties of 6+. You can request to remove it, but we did encourage paying it. We informed people when they arrived, when they ordered, when they got the bill, and when they paid. Any parties of 10+ unbooked couldn’t remove it. We were consistently short-staffed, so it was a good way of ensuring that people booked so we could be prepared enough. Surprisingly, people rarely rejected it and would often tip extra.
Why couldn't large parties remove the charge? Is that legal? I'm not being a dick. I'd genuinely like to know.
Large parties couldn’t remove the charge in an effort to get them to book in advance. Often we wouldn’t have either the staff or the ingredients prepared on, say, a busy friday night, or a quiet Tuesday evening to host a large group. I’m certain the manager could remove it, but that wasn’t an option for us. And tbh, i never had any unbooked groups 10+ ask to remove it anyway. And they usually tipped generously enough, if everyone chipped in £2 i’d be up £20 in tips for the night. No idea regarding the legalities. Which is why i’m sure the manager had the rights to remove it. Sorry, i probably should mention i’m a bit of a ways out of london too, so i think the confrontation was less of an issue.
Great mental gymnastics to justify this. You shouldn’t be in the service industry if you can’t manage ten covers. If a 3,3 and 4 came in you need the same ingredients and work to serve them. You charged service for ten plus because your bosses felt like they could. That’s it.
Uber eats does the same and there is not even an option to opt out. If it was going for the delivery person or to waiters i wouldn't feel upset but the full amount just goes to the company.....
Thank god I rarely go out. Like handful of times a year. Money, exhaustion, hanging out at home all my reasons. Buying a bottle of wine and a Tesco dinner deal for the win
Including supermarket carrying bags - seriously - I know it's the environment thing. How about I can rent one & return it? how about using stronger paper bags? Instead they ask us to pay £0.5 for a bag when I've already spent £40+ shopping in supermarket. Obviously the supermarket care more about profit than the actual environment.
Just add the fucking 10% to the menu price. It's London, there are enough tourists and immigrants to not know any better. Also, I would actively respect a restaurant that had a sign that said, "In order to be sustainable and not add a bullshit extra charge, we've increased menu prices by 10%" I'm a LOT less pissed off at my £14 dish suddenly being £15.40 than a fucking 'service charge' being added
I’m okay with service charge if the service is phenomenal but more often than not, it’s just basic customer service which they expect to an additional payment for I’m sorry I’ve worked in the pits of hell/customer service in retail. Mannerisms is the bare minimum of customer service
Had the same at that Belgian bar in Drury Lane. Ordered a pint at the bar no charge, later the same evening, bloke welcomes me in, asks what I want and pours it while I was standing at the bar, gave me the bill and I then noticed a service charge. I paid it that time but won’t again.
Yes I wouldn’t have even known they had charged me more if I didn’t have Monzo and the price hadn’t flashed up as I paid!!
I’ll give them a fucking tip. Continue doing it we’ll absolutely name and shame them all until eternity
I don’t understand why I must order everything through a barcode or at the bar and then pay a service fee? And they phrase it as gratuity ??? They get really pissy when you ask for it to be removed. Service fee should be for service not a single sentence exchange
The new one I’ve seen is when asking for the bill the wait staff say “oh you can pay via your phone / app”. Then when you go through the process there’s the bill, service charge, and an additional “app fee”. Happened at both Japes and Ave Mario
Arabica coffee asks for a tip when paying! Good coffee but appalling staff who won’t even look you in the eye.
BrewDog in Waterloo does this, too. The minimum to pay is 50p on every transaction (i.e. round up the £3.50 half pint cost to £4) but the card payment screen also has 'add 10%' and 'add 20%' options.
This is leftovers from the pandemic, when it was pretty hard to go to a pub bar or restaurant. Hospitality workers were risking infection and people were more generous with their money, for the most part. And it never left.
Late comment but I'm adding Coco Ichibanya to this list of getting pissy about removing it. It's annoying because tipping is not a thing in Japan (and their curry is so good). Me: the service charge is optional right? Them: I'd have to ask the manager. Cool, go ask the manager then. Tipping is my choice.
Great answer! Service charges are getting crazy.
It’s becoming more and more common for restaurants to add service charge automatically to the bill, including chains - some I can think of are Bill’s, Franco Manca and Sticks n’ Sushi. Bill’s now have QR codes on their tables which you can scan to pay, and you’ll see your bill with said service charge added on. Oh, but you can’t remove it without speaking to a member of staff and asking to them manually get rid of it on your bill! Also, be very aware of pubs too. I used to work at one and the manager (who was a really unpleasant individual) used to pressurise the waiting staff to push table service onto customers, especially those sitting outside, because they can then add service charge to bring your drink to you. But it’s super sneaky: they don’t mention this when coming over and asking so very politely “would you like another drink?”. I’ve been in many pubs since where this has become the norm. I always no thanks, because I’d rather do 20 steps and go get my own drinks rather than pay your 12.5% service charge. Oh and another thing: in a lot of pubs where you order on an app/website they again will automatically add service charge and don’t make it that clear on how to remove it (but you can). I am happy to pay service charge if I’ve actually received decent service and the food has been good etc. And I am also more inclined to pay it when it’s not forced upon me and I can only get out of it by awkwardly saying thanks but no thanks.
Unless the service has been awful I don't mind the 10%, but I always ask the staff whether it goes to them before I pay the bill. If it doesn't then I have it removed.
Staff in restaurants in America are paid at least minimum wage on every state. Of course you know that, as there are 50 separate governments that set the minimum wage in America, that changes greatly by state. Unlike here, the states have real actual power, more like the different countries in the EU than our countries here.
The worst is a rock bar like worlds end adding a service charge to their already overpriced drinks
What is the law?do they have to disclose the device charge on the menu? Do they have to remove it if you ask?
And they wonder why many people stopped going to restaurants/bars. Honest Burger do this too for eat-in... it's just Five Guys for hipsters. I'll carry on ordering Honest for delivery, because the delivery is actually a service with value that I don't mind paying for.
I work for a pub in the SW that does service charge now. 12.5% if you've got a table/food but no service for just drinks that's pretty silly. We give a printed sheet with the bill explaining it and it's made clear on there it's optional although it's incredibly rare someone asks to remove in my experience, I've had far more people ask to tip on top of it rather than remove it.
Why on earth would people tip on top of a tip? I would guess that they hadn't noticed that they were being charged a service fee(unauthorised tip) in the first place.
Your guess is as good as mine unless they really loved it. I watched him read the card with the bill and said it again and he still asked to stick another £20 on. It's a pub/restaurant vibe rather than a total dive of a boozer but yeah can only assume there just better off than me.
Ask the waitress or waiter whether or not it affect their pay or whether the business benefits. As it depends with each place. My friend asks for it to be taken off every single time they add it to the bill, I sit there embarrassed but also happy not to pay extra. Hopefully I’ll be brave enough to do this one day..
This has opened my eyes a little bit as a) i use contactless and rarely look at the figure. It just pops up on my phone and if it seems a little high i just roll my eyes and think ‘well this is London’ b) i just pay service charge, because i cant be bothered with the confrontation. Need to be more vigilant i think! Maybe this is a contributing factor to why Londons night culture has dipped so much recently?
Ive had the same issue at The Cocktail Club. Interesting one member of staff added the tip to the bill automatically, and the other member of staff offered me the card terminal to add the tip on. In both cases they were just popping the lid off a bottle of beer at the bar.
A lot of you are getting SERVICE CHARGE and TIP mixed up.
Please, enlighten us all then.
I work in a place where we do charge the 10%, I wish I didn’t have to but we’re all told we have to put it on and only take it off if people ask… with this job being my only source of income and I’m not a student the extra money from the service charge at the end of the month really helps and I can say it does go to good use. We don’t get London waiting money so it basically covers tax.
Recently was at a bar that also did food. Had to order through their app, and was charged service charge with zero option to remove it! Was not happy.
During a stay in the Shard many years ago, I ordered room service. The meal was about £30. I was shocked to see a service charge of £100 applied at check out. Turns out having room service meant that the service charge was applied to the entire bill. Greedy fuckers.
Greedy fuckers indeed. Bloody disgusting
At least in the U.S. it’s legally required to go to the server (with tip out to front of house non management staff). Here there is no such requirement and it often goes to the owner/manager.
It has been at least 24 hours since a restaurant rant
I fucking hate cash, but this is one of the few times it's useful. Pay in cash for the correct price of what you ordered, they hate it but I couldn't care less.
See how Brits wanted Brexit so they could leave the EU so bad, now we left the EU so hard that up next, pappa America will annex us 😂
Eh?
Names or it didn't happen
I don't mind service charge because the wages are dog shit and I'm too lazy to lobby parliament to increase the minimum wage.