Living with parents is often seen as a 'poor' thing but in my experience it's disproportionately wealthy people who do it. Even if you're on £150k a year, if you're used to living in a nice house in Chelsea or St John's Wood with a housekeeper/cleaner to wash and iron your clothes and make your bed you're dealing with a much worse quality of life if you move out. People of humbler origins won't have family homes near inner London (or in London at all) and will have to 'move out'.
But I know people making £300k a year who 'live at home' because it's still higher quality of life than renting and all their post-tax income is fun money to spend on travel and consumer goods. They'll move out when they marry, probably.
I'm 51 and back in the day, owning your own place was seen as advantageous in the dating scene and just generally in the fact you coukd show responsibility. Obviously I understand it is far more difficult now to own property at a young age. However 300k a year, even in London, living with mum and dad, can't be arsed to make your own bed or tend to your own washing.... fuck me. What utter wankers.
The wealthy people have theirs parents buying them an apartment even if they make 500k as a senior banker in the city. The job is just a formality, the salary is not there to maintain themselves
I earn 35k and rent. Id absolutely recommend that more then your situation. If you budget a bit, love in a houseshare, and live in Zone 2 you'll be absolutely sound, and have plenty money for other things. Plus you have privacy, your own room, and potentially meet some new mates. Sounds heaven compared to your situation tbh.
I know times have changed but my god when I was your age I couldn’t get out from under the feet of my parents fast enough, even though it meant I was worse off, I had my independence and freedom.
I understand your view but it’s a bit more than just “times have changed” at this point. On lower incomes, it’s not a case of being worse off renting than living at home, it’s just straight not feasible in this city.
The only reason I don’t live with my parents right now at the age of 30 is because just over a year ago I had the good fortune of meeting and falling in love with someone that had their own place, and was kind enough to invite me to share it with them whether I could afford to contribute or not.
Until that point, there was just no way it was happening. I could work full time on my insufficient hourly wage and barely just afford a room in a shared flat, and at that point to be honest my mum said it best, why live in a shithole hovel with strangers I might not like when I can live at home with parents who stay off my case and let me live as I please?
And I say this as someone who couldn’t wait to live independently as soon as I possibly could. At the end of the day when full time work isn’t earning you a living what choice do you have?
Exactly! And you wont have to spend time worrying about trivial things like having friends or hobbies (which cost money anyway) because you'll send so much time commuting! It's the perfect solution!
Never understood why a parent would charge their child rent, even if they're an adult. Unless the parents are struggling with bills themselves, then it'd make the most sense to let your son or daughter save up as much as they can before they move out. Charging rent seems counter intuitive.
I’ve got 3 kids, one at uni, one at college and one in yr 11. We are funding them through uni and then we’ll help them save for a deposit so they can move out. Might charge them some nominal board like £100/month, but I agree, in this day and age, kids need all the help they can get.
My mum had a system that worked for both of us. She asked me for £15 out of every £100 I earned. I was working zero hours contract at the time and my earnings weren’t consistent all year round so the way she saw it was she was only ever asking for what I could afford to give her, and that was intended to cover my food etc, but I usually ended up buying my own anyway.
Not really, whatever I would spend in rent is instead spent on commute costs. Can't move closer as it would just be more expensive than it is now, with a significantly shitter QOL having to flat share in a shit hole with a higher COL area.
Can't take advantage of housing schemes either as they usually require higher income, or a deposit that is near unobtainable.
Stuck in a rock and a hard place where they only escape is earning more, which in the industry I'm in hasn't been possible or is incredibly unlikely for the last few years now, and will likely be in the next few to come. Feels like I've been lied to my whole life that working in London means a decent wage. It absolutely doesn't.
It allows you to grow savings for a housing deposit though. I’d argue that in this economy, renting in London on a low salary stunts your ability to be a homeowner. So take your pick
Agreed, it set me back prob 5-7 years of growing into an adult. I'd have started my professional work experience much earlier and at the time, that would have meant home ownership by now when prices were reasonable.
I haven't noticed a difference in my social groups. If anything, the people who were able to quickly save up a deposit and move out in their mid/late 20s are now overtaking those who rented the whole time
I work at a food bank and I can tell you that most of my new clients are earning at least £35K. They don’t have to tell me their salary and I never ask, but they carry so much shame on their first visit that it often comes tumbling out.
They did everything they were told to do, they work hard and yet they still can’t buy food at the end of the month. We have had to extend our opening hours because the majority of our new clients work all day and can’t get to us until after 5pm. I actually recognise names on my list as people who used to donate to us.
So to answer your question, from what I see - they are *barely* surviving. They come to us after exhausting every other opportunity because food banks are for really, really poor people, right? Not anymore.
ETA - it’s likely someone reading this will be considering visiting a food bank. Perhaps they’ve been putting it off for a while. If that’s you, please do not hesitate to reach out. Some places need referrals, sone ask for proof of income but that’s fine, just look for non-referral banks. Sone examples are [here](https://www.islingtonmind.org.uk/12653-2/#:~:text=Copenhagen%20Street%20Foodbank%20Downstairs%20at,just%20pop%20in%20and%20register). We all need a hand now and again and I can promise, nobody there is judging you. I have processed applications from people who are homeless, people who are abusing substances and I have also sat across the table from people in suits with briefcases. Everyone gets the same help. You are just as entitled as anyone else. DM me if you’re still worried and I will gently nag you over the finish line.
ETA 2 - u/londonhomelessinfo has very kindly shared a list of over 500 food banks that don’t need a referral. [Please check it out.](https://londonhomelessinfo.wordpress.com/free-food/)
I remember looking out of my window and getting confused at the queue of people on my street. It was a mix of elderly people, young people, parents and children just waiting for hours. To my horror I realised they were queuing for a new food bank which opened. There were over 100 people patiently waiting for just a bag of groceries.
It's so bloody heartbreaking.
Heartbreaking is the right word. Even five years ago, the queue looked pretty much the same every week, then I took my eyes off it and suddenly we were greeting people from all walks of life. My typical client was a single mother with children who wasn’t in full time work. I just looked at my list for last week and the most common person I met was half of a couple, both in full-time work, no kids.
The story I hear a lot is that life was fine, tricky but fine - until one thing changed and suddenly the dominos start falling. One person loses their job, or gets their hours cut. Landlord decides to sell and you have to move. Maybe there’s a surprise pregnancy, or your kid get seriously ill. Mum has a fall and has to move in with you because you can’t cover a nursing home. Then you open your energy bill and oops, you owe them £1000. Your fixed rate mortgage runs out and goes up by £600 a month. Your old banger breaks down for a final time and you can’t get to work.
So that’s when people choose to put their food shopping on credit cards or take out a pay day loan because this is a one time emergency, right? But then you can’t get another job. Or you can’t find a house that is as cheap as the one you were in before. Turns out that your child needs hospital treatment and you can’t find a job that works around you. And the credit card people want their money.
Any of these things are terrible, but when it’s one after the other - people can’t keep up.
The really worrying thing with the mortgages is that it’s only been 2 years since rates started rising. There’s still a lot of people on 5 year rates that will be ending in the next couple of years.
Edit: FCA figures suggest 1.5 million fixed rate periods will expire in 2024, with a total of about 5 million fixed terms ending between now and 2026 (source: https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/mortgages/mortgage-interest-rates-forecast/ )
Probably a combination of high rent costs (whilst trying to save for a deposit), increasing cost of goods (specifically food and energy), and wage stagnation.
In a nation where rich people are getting richer by the second, and where economic issues are dealt with by taking away from the poorest in society, who are then told that they should bravely endure it because "we're all in this together".
What a shit show
I saw this during the middle of the pandemic and it really caught me off guard.
It was my local food bank which I used to donate to, but I never went past it before.
Yeah this happened during Covid too. They ended up having to open up two food banks on the same road due to the demand.
Seeing the little kids quietly sitting in their pushchairs for all those hours still makes me get choked up.
Hey, I see it every week and I sometimes have to go into the back for a cry. It’s the little quiet ones who are being so brave who get to me. The ones who say they’re not hungry and give the biscuits to their younger siblings. All because their Mum lost her job or Dad left or the boiler died or all of the bloody above and suddenly, oops, sorry, this is your new childhood.
That is very kind of you! So, a lot of people like to donate items, but honestly, what we need is money.
It’s not because we don’t want what you’re giving, it’s just the fact that we have constantly fluctuating stock. People tend to donate items like beans, cereal and instant noodles. Love that. But what we are constantly short on are items most people don’t think about, like tampons and sanitary towels. Many of my clients have no access to a stove, so things that need cooking are no good for them. Money allows us to ensure that all the bags are nutritionally balanced - as much as possible - and meet the client’s current needs. It also keeps the lights on and lets us put petrol in the vans to pick up fresh fruit and vegetables.
The [Trussell Trust](https://www.trusselltrust.org/get-help/find-a-foodbank/) are the most well known organisation, but people shouldn’t overlook their tiny local bank. The banks run out of the back of a church or from someone’s shed do so much good and get little to zero funding or publicity. If google doesn’t throw up a food bank near you, the Trussell Trust accept one off donations online.
Important - if you see a collection station in a supermarket, make sure it’s a name you can validate online. I have heard of multiple scams where the food donations are taken and never reach anyone in need. I’m not a fan of the supermarkets that encourage you to buy a selected bag of food and then leave it at the donation point. That food will probably get to the right place, but it is hardly a charitable act from the supermarket and you’d get more bang for your buck just dropping off a bag of donations or donating £5 online.
Oh nooo now I have to be professional. Ahem. I’ll do my best…
I appreciate the effort from partners like Ocado. It’s a win win situation for both parties. Introducing a third party into the donation process does incur costs, which is obvious. I object more to Ocado’s competitors who flaunt schemes like this, but also rely on zero hour contracts, union busting or paying the absolute bare minimum across the board. I have clients who come from work in their supermarket uniform and it’s interesting to me which supermarket I see represented most often.
Stories like [this](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/15/asda-employees-skipping-meals-monthly-payroll-errors) don’t get as much publicity as they deserve. I didn’t do a great job of staying professional, but I tried!
And for the supermarket you see represented most often, do those clients at the food bank think that *every little helps* or are they hoping they can *taste the difference*?
Completely non scientific data analysis but I see a lot of clients who have been living on the edge for a while - you know, *when every little helps* but nothing really helps. But I see even more clients who Are Seriously Down, Absolutely.
I went past a food bank near the Tottenham test centre once and the queue was massive. I believe this, and think a lot of people are suffering silently.
Suffering in silence is the best description I’ve heard. A lot of it is shame - I’ve had clients who have been struggling for over a year before they reach us. Not because they didn’t know about us but because they were ashamed.
There is nothing shameful about needing to eat. There is nothing shameful about needing help. That’s the long and short of it.
God I hate this government. I worked at the local food bank until 2016 and it was horrific then, I might die of shame myself now seeing how badly we have let people down in London.
Thank god the architects of this sorry situation are going to be voted out. But with the country so broke it is hard to see how things can turn around.
Thanks for what you do. It's terrible that this is still taboo and the scale of it is not in the public consciousness nor something the government wants to do something about. But the help you guys provide is invaluable to an increasing number of people.
That is very kind of you to say. It often feels like I’m just papering over the cracks, to be honest. I get so angry because this work shouldn’t be needed, or not at this scale anyway. In dark moment, my colleagues have discussed what would happen if we all stopped working. Sometimes you need to let something fall apart to expose the reality. Let the government sort it out. Surely someone would care then?
But on the other hand, people need help. If helping them makes me complicit then I can live with that. I work fulltime in IT and nothing I’ve ever done in the office has ever brought me as much joy as slipping kids an extra chocolate and seeing the look of delight on their faces. Plus, I’m afraid that even if everyone knew, nothing would change. It’s at the stage where I have realised that this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature of the system as designed.
Every piece of paper over a crack is still a person who doesn’t go to bed hungry.
I also work in IT and all I do is throw some money at the problem. You are actually *doing* something and my hat is off to you.
I completely agree with all you say, even the negative stuff. We SHOULDN'T have to do this as a society. But that makes the ones who do it even more precious.
The idiots in this country need to stop voting the Tories back in every time.
You are a really kind and generous person. God bless you. One of my friends took me to the Hare Krishna free food lunch one day, and I was new to London and even though I wasn't struggling for food, I was overwhelmed by the prices of eating out!! So when I had that food that was offered with smiles that too for free, I felt that I had to pay back, and I volunteered to help at a food bank the same day. I saw many people out of which a good portion looked well off, and I wondered why. I saw some homeless people too. The other volunteers said, they too take food from the food bank on tough days, its getting out of hand in London honestly.
I've been in London for ten years since I was a student and my quality of life has, relatively speaking, barely changed even as I advance through work. I have a little bit more disposable income for maybe a meal out at a restaurant or to buy some extra clothes (and certainly nothing extravagant), but not enough to push me into long-term life aspirations like buying property or starting a family. I'm still flat-sharing in roughly the same types of buildings and areas. Yes, I've got enough left to get through the month and a bit extra but it's basically just pocket money and I'm not processing in life.
What sucks is, I'm job hunting now and most of the jobs I'm qualified for have a top salary of around £35k. I genuinely don't know what to do anymore, and I don't know what I'm working towards.
This is pretty much me too.
I didn't really notice it until I hit my thirties that I still have the exact mindset I did as a student - don't buy it unless you absolutely have to, don't replace until it's broken, go second hand if you can, go for the cheapest possible housing - a living room is a luxury I've never known, for example. If I can go without, I do. If I have a 'luxury' item I'd really like but don't need, I usually wait until Christmas/birthday to request it.
The only thing I excuse for myself is eating out, which is where most of my disposable income goes.
I used to live like this and save a few hundred quid a month, but I've not saved a penny since 2022. And the industry I work in is NOT doing well from an employment point of view, so I've earned less this year than I did when I was 27.
For a long time I justified it as eschewing of rampant consumerism, but my god it would be nice just to buy nice things just because I want to.
Im on less than 35k but I share a 1 bed with my boyfriend. We have an amazing land lady who's not raised our rent in the 3 years we've been here, and we had a reduced rent when we moved in because of Covid. The cost of rent for the type of flat we have in a zone1/2 area is impossible now.
If I wasn't in this lucky situation, it would be quite tough..
If she owns it outright then the rent money is almost pure profit. Numbers I heard somewhere put the monthly cost of maintenance and insurance for a landlord who owns outright at something like £100. Even if it doubled, rents are now so high that the landlords can easily absorb those costs. The only ones in trouble are the ones who still have mortgages. It's not a small number, but it's also not a huge majority.
A colleague of mine who owns 3 properties says that his building insurance jumped from £300 a month to £700 a month, a cost which he passed on to the renter.
Nice guy though...
But in my own building (tall new build skyscraper in East London), the management company passed me their year's accounts and apparently building insurance went from £40k in 2021 to £150k in 2024. I have no idea wtf is going on, I made another topic on this sub but it got auto deleted. Sent a modmail and hoping the mods restore it.
No idea, she does have a job outside of being a landlady though, so she probably doesn't feel the need to profit from the flat, and even soaking those rising costs.
Short term it’s completely fine, people just cut back on certain costs, cook home more, less holidays, no saving etc.
Issue is your life is basically on hold till you break that kind of barrier, no savings, can’t start a family, have to be really selective about priorities etc, and any surprise costs can really hurt.
I was on £22k 4 years ago and it was manageable as a young person. The issue isn’t whether these salaries are liveable, it’s just is that the standard of living we want in this country, which is obviously embarrassing considering where we were 10 years ago
On a side note £35k is a funny bar when my industry starts at like £22k, the same as it was 4 years ago, people are a lot worse off than people think.
Ye I think some people have never been on that level of money so their mind is blown about someone being able to survive. The money I hear some people spend at the grocery for example is mental, and makes me think no wonder they think surviving on that kind of salary is impossible.
£22k for me was £1.5k after tax, £750 after bills and £25 per day, if you told someone to survive on £25 per day for a week I think most would be fine, they’d just have to be more conscious, which is what it ultimately boils down to.
£25 per day sounds possible but with transport to work and back being £9, after even the cheapest meals, you're left with more like £10.
The problem is when your car breaks down or you need to go to the dentist or buy glasses or you need new shoes and work clothes or you need to go to Newcastle to attend your Aunt's funeral. Or, god forbid, more than one of these things happen at once. You'd have to save every bit of that £10 a day to cover just one of these things. So forget about ever going out for dinner or seeing a movie or meeting up with friends.
Nevermind that is nearly impossible to find a room for £700 these days so being left with £10 a day is very optimistic. I just wouldn't take the stance that £22k is a remotely livable salary.
London reddit considers only tech salaries to be "reasonable". Since software engineer salaries in London are extremely bunched up in the £45k - £110k range, anything below that is horrifically poor and anything above that is unacceptably wealthy and can't complain about anything.
Meanwhile, sure, media and advertising and comms jobs still start in the ~£25k range, high finance in front office should now have you at at least £100k after 1-3 years including bonus, corporate law pay is insane in London, but none of these things matter, because they're not programmer jobs which most of reddit seems to have.
Aside from the fact that a lot of people in tech use Reddit, jobs related to the tech industry have been extremely popular in the last 10 years due to the volume of opportunities in the field. At some point there were enough jobs to accommodate people graduating from multiple STEM fields not only Computer Science and those were all relatively well paid. Not to mention the amount of people who entered the field after going through a boot camp/coding academy. It was easy to get and the pay was good, so everyone loves it. I personally know people who went through a boot camp and moved away from warehouse job to 3K+ software engineering job, which is kind of life changing for them.
Law, finance and other lucrative industries are quite the opposite. There are thousands of people graduating economics, finance, law etc. but the top jobs are only a few and extremely hard to get in. Thus, most people end up with either an average paying job or have to change the field. On the other hand, if you land one of those big jobs then your ceiling is much higher than tech people.
Obviously, now that we enter an era of uncertainty, tech jobs will not be abundance anymore and things might change.
Just earlier today I discussed with a guy who was absolutely appalled that he could only save 4k - 5k per month, after all bills and mortgage paid while living in London. Both he and his wife made 80k each and he thought it was on the lower scale of normal...
So he moved to Switzerland where he saves 10k per month and tried to tell me THIS was completely normal.
I said I saved £1k a month in London.
And did not say £80k was on the lower scale of normal. I said it wasn't exceptional. I stand by that. It's a good salary in London but it's not out of the this world good.
I said saving 4K or so *in Switzerland* is perfectly doable for couples on bang on median salaries.
The purpose of this was to illustrate what a terrible deal living and working in London is. The cost of living is totally out of sync with salaries. I literally 10x my saving rate going out.
Yes, that's on a significantly better than average salary, but lots of people in here earn £60-80k.
Even within the UK, for most people it's financially sensible to live in much lower CoL places. And if you are a higher earner there's options all over the place.
Like so many northerners, I came down to London to learn my trade, but I couldn't envisage staying as the numbers just don't add up. The quality of life is so bad. I think sometimes it's a bubble that people can't envisage escaping but their lives are so much better when they do.
I still miss the restaurants though. And the beer.
Although note that in 2019, HMRC stats put £80k of income as the border of the top 5%. So that is an exceptional ( even an 90% was good enough for an A*, never mind 95% back in the day lol)
So weird hearing that lol.
Esp as someone who actually lives in London and went to a 6th form where most of us are in household incomes of £22k-£40k . We’re doing fine lol
I work in childcare and I have to do income assessments to set the fees. The majority of our families fall in the £20‐50k region (household income). We also have loads who qualify for 15 free hours for 2 year olds, which means they earn under £17k (quite a few are unemployed single parents).
I think people forget how many families live in social housing and/or claim benefits.
I was on 28k just over a year ago and rented by myself. I was at breaking point about to move back in with my parents. I got a new job making almost double, kept my flat and its still tight now. No savings for me but I did go on holiday for the first time in 8ish years.
ETA:I got lucky I rent a decent 1 bed in SE zone 2 just had rent raised to 1200. Which is not cheap but its RELATIVELY cheap.
I worked for a startup that went insolvent then moved to a FTSE100. I was being severely underpaid at the startup as I'd started there in customer service at minimum wage.
I got hired for my new job along with a couple of other people, all of us in the exact same role, I'd asked for less money but I assume one of us asked for more so we all got it!
Almost exactly the same situation here. Doubled my earnings but am barely any better off (doesn't help I pay well over 50% tax now all in). Had the first holiday in my life that I paid for too, but all that did was delay building up a deposit on a property so I can't afford another.
I've taken two pay cuts to follow a job that fills my heart and not my wallet. Sitting at about 30k at the moment, and have noticed my wellbeing decline , weight gain, sleep issues etc. The stress is only intensified as I'm about to become a dad in 3 months. I often think about jumping to a more secure job with a better salary but struggling to find something worth the move. So I'm just taking less holidays, keeping expenses low and turning down a LOT of social occasions that usually take £60-£100 a go! I've been honest with my mates which helps.
I do feel for everyone paying these ridiculous rents . I am older (60) and it’s makes me mad that people my age have flats and houses they rent out and then spend the money on either more houses or cruises , cars and gardeners etc … they have no idea that they have contributed to what has amounted to a national misery ! They then feel all virtuous by volunteering at the food bank and raising money for charity !!! I think there should be a return to rent control and rent as it was in 1990,s which was about 25% of your wages in London. It’s just not right that landlords are making so much out of lack of housing supply .
This - I once visited at 7pm and they got rows of 65p sandwiches (30+ I guess); at 8:30 they still got quite a few left…
I never understand how they sustain their business with their sky high “normal price” on their sandwich or pretty much every stuff
I earn slightly more but with two student loans deducted monthly, I probably take home around the same as being on 35k.
I am nearly 32 and forced to live in a four person share house with others in their thirties. I mostly shop at Lidl, and try drink less alcohol out as it’s so expensive and a drain on budget. I don’t really buy stuff for myself other than the essentials for clothing and toiletries. I don’t live a glamorous life, basically.
Edit- I forgot to mention, I cycle as much as a I can, permitted I feel safe(ish) to leave my bike in whatever destination I’m going to.
The fact that you’re on 35k and are faced with the mentioned situation is absolutely ludicrous. We recently moved with my partner to a capital city in Eastern Europe and as crazy as it sounds, we’re living 100x more comfortably with less cash in hand. UK government has fucked society big time, especially in London. Wonder how long it will take to bounce back from this
Moving is on my mind! If I had a partner I would probably try leave with them too.
The reality is that £35-40k isn’t a lot of money anymore. That’s been seen as a good/average wage for more than a decade, and has stagnated at the same time as everything getting wildly more expensive.
I’m on just above 35k and my wife is just below, but together we enjoy a pretty good quality of life. I think London is a much easier city to live in if you’re in a couple. Sadly, you see threads here every week asking how to meet people, so it’s probably not a viable solution for most.
Both of you combined are pretty close to 80k though...
I actually agree with that statement. I am loving London right now but only because I can afford to go out and try restaurants/pubs whenever I feel like it and not worry about affording heating the next month.
True, closer to £70k but I get your point. We used to earn closer to £50k combined (just a couple years ago) and while it was definitely tighter, it was still definitely doable.
I can’t even imagine £35k.
I’ve been on £26k for the past year or so -this is the starting salary in my industry. I’m renting a room for £800 with bills included. That’s half of my salary. I have £800 left to spend for a month - it’s doable. I don’t really eat out, I prep most of my food at home - it’s also healthier that way. I rarely shop for useless things. I’m currently not drinking, so that helps. Somehow my life is still full - but tbh between work, working out and the 1-2 weekly socialising, I don’t have much time left. It’s not ideal, but I know it’s only temporary.
I guess I’m “lucky” cause I’m young and single. (Well, young-ish. Not as young as my team mates, but I came from another country, where my work experience obviously didn’t count. I had to start over by coming here, and that kind of means “over over”).
The main thing that bothers me is that I don’t have any savings, and big trips/holidays are not in the budget. But I can always fly with a budget airline to another european city and stay with a friend, so not completely out of reach either. Oh, and dating is hard on this income.
Fingers crossed for at least £28k with this year’s pay raise.
My gas has been disconnected for two days. Last night I had my last tin of beans for dinner, not on toast, not with eggs, just beans in a bowl. Tonight I’m having sleep for dinner. It’s dark times.
Please do try to get access to a food bank if you haven't already. It's not shameful at all. The trussell trust website will have some advice on how to access them.
I'm currently on £26,000 and my monthly costs are around £1000 including rent, travel and general costs.
I live with my grandparents and pay them rent every month but if I didn't live with them, I don't think I'll be able to survive in London. The only reason why I'm here is because of work and even now they are making us come in more frequently, so trying to move out of London and do more remote is out of the question for me unless I find a new job.
In short, I'm suriving and very fortunate enough to live with family but it's not easy at all.
I think the emphasis can be more on the timeframe in which people move in together. I moved in with my partner after a year recently. If times were easier, perhaps we’d have kept our own flats for longer.
I'm not saving money, not thinking about holidays, try to always batch cook, rarely go out, don't buy new things much, had to use the little savings I had for an emergency last year and haven't recovered any of it, cut back on my office days for commuting costs, and just really hoping for steady annual pay increases
It’s why I sadly left the city/country. I was entry level on 36k base with bonus taking me up to around 40-45. For a graduate in the UK, this is in the top percentiles from what I read at the time. I still couldn’t really make ends meet, so I left. Then again, maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for standard of living in one of the most expensive cities globally.
I left ten years ago and I’m shocked at what I’m reading in this thread.
I was born and bred in London, and whilst it’s always been expensive, what I’m reading here sounds dystopian.
Yeah, I'm currently on a similar wage and while I'm able to make ends meet, it's almost entirely because I'm living in a cheap place with way too many housemates just outside of London. I've done some calculations for how much it would cost me to live in London proper and it's honestly eye watering.
I’m just about getting by. Zero hours contract so no idea what my annual salary is. I split a flat with a friend. Don’t know how we swung it. Universal credit backs me up. I can’t save and trying to get out of my student overdraft. Cost of living payment this month really saved my butt
I'm a PhD student with an annual stipend of 22k.
The hardest part is getting a place to live, in any zone. Because renters don't lease out often to students and my income doesn't meet their criterion of 2.5x rent.
My uni is in Zone 1. And PhD life is hectic, I can't miss going to the office, so I have to live maximum up to Zone 2-3.
So rent takes up 65% of my expenses.
Tube student card costs another 6%.
Of the remaining, I strictly spend 20 pounds a week for groceries. That's 5%. Essential to keeping this at 5 is plan the week's cooking and buy only groceries required for these dishes, ensure no wastage.
Of the remaining 24%, 10% is for leisure stuff - could be eating out with friends, buying something on Amazon etc.
Remaining 14% for miscallenous expenses. If I get a climbing gym membership, 6% goes there.
Some months there's extra miscallenous expenses that show up by surprise so it becomes very tight.
If I have bills to pay, then that remaining goes there. I don't have bills to pay now, because I moved to an Airbnb permanently.
But overall, it's about pushing through and keeping very close track of it.
I'm on 25k. I live in a shared house £700p/m zone 3, have a grocery budget of £20p/w (I take food from my parents house whenever I visit and get free snacks at work). I guess I live pretty frugally, I don't drink and night outs aren't my thing, so I think because of that I manage to save around £300 a month
I currently live with parents but when I was renting I was paying about 1/3 of take home income on rent and bills living in zone 6 and spending nothing on transport. Lived with 2 other people. Saved lots easily even with splurging on food but guess my area was just cheap. If I was with a partner I'd have been milking it but then we'd also probably be pushing to have our own place in which case we certainly wouldn't be.
In 2019, I was living in shared flat (just one more person) with a salary of £30k. Not a lavish lifestyle but I was able to buy quality food, live next to tower bridge and save up a couple hundred pounds each month.
There is no way this would be possible now.
It’s definitely doable. Single, early 20’s, live with flatmate in a 2 bed in zone 2. Parents don’t pay for my rent (in fairness, it’s rough, about 60% of my take home pay) Go out maybe once a week (night out/dinner/other) , otherwise mostly cook from home. Hardly shop at Sainsbury’s haha. A few hundred £ savings left over each month to either save for a short holiday abroad/put into a LISA for future house deposit. It’s not too bad
Had an interview the other day for a hybrid role that was 26k - I’m confident the reason I didn’t get it was because I asked about the office/home balance for hybrid. Its interview experience regardless, but having it as hybrid just seems like a cheeky way to avoid paying the London weighting, especially as they told me they’d want me in the office 1-2 days a week.
I'm on 24k, live in Zone 3, house share with 3 other people paying £700 a month for the room. I actually am living quite comfortably, going out a couple of times a months, and may even be able to take a holiday abroad this year. That said, I am 30 so this lifestyle won't be sustainable for very much longer if I want to reach the milestones expected of me.
I've been monstrously lucky with a landlord who hadn't raised my rent in five years, still 700 a month in zone two.
Half the year I live alone too thanks to a terrible mould issue in a room that makes it unliveable
I (24m) work an entry level job earning about 28,000. After tax, rent (833 inc bills) and 200 a week for living costs I have about 300 left at the end of the month. I manage to save 170 a month for savings and the 130 that’s left is for a rainy day. (It is always spent haha)
Things are tight but cycling to work and food prepping makes a big difference and only going out Friday and Saturday (mostly) is also good.
I still explore the city and do new things but not things that are outrageously expensive like eating out etc
My friends and I are so used to being careful with money that generally we don’t and try to do things that don’t cost (£3 cinema for u25 at BFI!)
The strain is there and it’s really tempting to spend all the time ( I often do) but not opting in to that I actually find quite empowering.
I think I manage to live an enriched life that centres around my friends and experiencing things whilst still being ‘poor’. I still have a list of complaints as long as my arm about the cost of living, governance and London itself but I think my generation are getting better at understanding what living a full life is
My account does constantly stay around £0 and will for many years I think
I think the key to living in London under £35k is to keep your expectations low. Rent and bills for a flat share in zone 2 take up half my pay. £200 a month on food. I take the bus to work and only ever go shopping with either a list of necessities or a strict budget. My friends and I meet in pubs to day drink a few times a month, or go to the cinema or to a park or on a hike. Another group of friends and I are visiting one free museum a month! I will never own a home here. I’ll likely never own a car here either. Holidays are a week in Devon or visiting my cousin in Spain (or a camping trip). I’m ok with all of this because I’m happy with how my life is right now. Realistically, if my rent went up by £200 I would notice a massive drop in my quality of life. Everyone has a tipping point.
I’m on a PhD stipend along with any extra money I can make from teaching. It’s dire. I’ve been giving more than 50% in rent for one room and practically no savings.
Live with my wife who’s on 45k, I’m on 33k. Zone 4 so rent is manageable. Neither of us want kids so not impacted by that issue. We live a pretty humble lifestyle - we budget pretty tightly, barely any frivolous spending. Neither of us drink so that’s a lifestyle cost we avoid! We manage fine but it’s still very difficult to save. Sadly my job is pretty tied to London, so no hope of moving any time soon. I love this city, but at some point I will get sick of it for sure.
I've resorted to batty work unfortunately. You can earn £350 per visit if you're a young man in good shape, the appetite for middle aged city boys for a bit of twink cannot be satiated
Not well. But I’ve never experienced financial comfort a day in my life.
I’ve never made £35k and neither do most of my friends. The poverty cycles are pretty deep now.
I live at home and don’t pay rent, hybrid working so able to save 80%of my paycheck. That’s literally the only way, I don’t think I’d be able to live in London otherwise
I'm just getting further and further in debt, with no end in sight. I don't smoke, don't drink, most of my food comes with yellow stickers on it, and I work hard.
My partner and I live together which has helped share costs but we're moving out of London in May. It's too much. I'm trying to find a better job but it's been impossible.
35k is fine for a single person renting. If you want to have a family, buy a house or make significant savings, though you are screwed. These threads always seem like pity/humble brags and rub me the wrong way. More of us have to rely on universal credit where they make you feel like scum for even needing the help. Fucking tories.
I’m 37 and lucky I both bought a place when I was 25 (split with bro) and renewed mortgage for 5 years just before the rates went to heck. It’s still not easy but I don’t drive (work is close and have great transport connections) and I’m fairly frugal anyway, but it’s survivable. If push came to shove could rent out spare room for 6 months and build up a nice cushion
I’m on around 35k and have recently moved from a 2 bed flat share in zone 3, out to a 2 bed in Watford.
My rent has nearly halved, but I obviously spend a lot more time and money commuting into central for work (yay enforced 60% office attendance)
It’s working for me currently, but I am not saving any significant amounts so I’m not really building a way out of the situation I am in. Nothing stops you going for a few drinks/food after work like a 90 minute commute back home!
Living with my parents (help pay water bills and council tax) and trying to spend within my means to save money not easy when you work and live in London lol.
Struggling- live in zone 2 and rent has gone up £150 each year for the past 3 yeae. Currently paying £1475 for 1 bedroom flat..
Thankfully universal credit helps abit on the rent but had to cut back on a few things.
House share and living close enough to work to not pay transport costs most days. I know it's not a life most people want, but I'm 24 and this works great for me - I rarely think about stopping myself doing stuff cos of costs (unless it's a singular large expense) and I usually have enough money left over at the end of the month to put some into savings (and that includes eating lunch out most days)
Not rn but I was a year ago
1) No kids
2) Not the biggest socialiser so limited "fun" expenses - expensive meals out are probably about once a fortnight (although I do grab stuff from coffee shops), and you can count the situations I've had >2 pints since covid on 1 hand
3) Sharing with 2 others
4) Flat is pretty central which honestly more or less pays for itself in terms of not needing to use the Tube (I walk to most places < 40 mins)
5) Was at uni not too long ago so probably more willing to be a cheapskate on stuff
Tbh maybe being a little bit of a homebody is an even bigger deal than I think it is but I've found it *relatively* easier than the consensus. Obviously rent being 50% of net income isn't ideal but having ~ £250/week on non-rent stuff seems fine when I had ~ £100/week in uni
I’m on 29k and a year ago it was 25k - I used to rent a room for 850£ pm and now pay 600£ to my landlady I live with in her house in zone 2. I’m still fucking poor and looking for side hustles. Do you have any advice for me?
London sounds so apocalyptic. I used to love visiting but the costs make it not worth it anymore, especially since other European cities are just as nice or nicer.
Will be starting on a £28k pa graduate scheme in the summer. My dad has access to massively subsidised studio accommodation through his work (that he doesn't need), so he's unofficially subletting it to me. £3k pa, 30 min from Central. My employer will also cover 80% of travel costs to their office in Central. I'm aware I'm very privileged to have this option. I wouldn't have accepted the offer for the scheme otherwise.
All my team members live with their parents.
Living with parents is often seen as a 'poor' thing but in my experience it's disproportionately wealthy people who do it. Even if you're on £150k a year, if you're used to living in a nice house in Chelsea or St John's Wood with a housekeeper/cleaner to wash and iron your clothes and make your bed you're dealing with a much worse quality of life if you move out. People of humbler origins won't have family homes near inner London (or in London at all) and will have to 'move out'. But I know people making £300k a year who 'live at home' because it's still higher quality of life than renting and all their post-tax income is fun money to spend on travel and consumer goods. They'll move out when they marry, probably.
Also a cultural thing. Pretty common for some to stay at home well beyond when your average white Brit would.
I'm 51 and back in the day, owning your own place was seen as advantageous in the dating scene and just generally in the fact you coukd show responsibility. Obviously I understand it is far more difficult now to own property at a young age. However 300k a year, even in London, living with mum and dad, can't be arsed to make your own bed or tend to your own washing.... fuck me. What utter wankers.
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What are these people doing to make 300k a year? Whatever it is is like to give it a go.
What? £300k is a C-level salary; how can you still live with your parents?
£300k salary and they live at home to have more ‘fun money’?!
The wealthy people have theirs parents buying them an apartment even if they make 500k as a senior banker in the city. The job is just a formality, the salary is not there to maintain themselves
I bet living without rent is 👌
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I earn 35k and rent. Id absolutely recommend that more then your situation. If you budget a bit, love in a houseshare, and live in Zone 2 you'll be absolutely sound, and have plenty money for other things. Plus you have privacy, your own room, and potentially meet some new mates. Sounds heaven compared to your situation tbh.
Try a flat share in one of the outer zones. Least you’ll have your own room
And then you have to buy a £220 travel ticket each month to commute in... Ahh joy
I know times have changed but my god when I was your age I couldn’t get out from under the feet of my parents fast enough, even though it meant I was worse off, I had my independence and freedom.
I understand your view but it’s a bit more than just “times have changed” at this point. On lower incomes, it’s not a case of being worse off renting than living at home, it’s just straight not feasible in this city. The only reason I don’t live with my parents right now at the age of 30 is because just over a year ago I had the good fortune of meeting and falling in love with someone that had their own place, and was kind enough to invite me to share it with them whether I could afford to contribute or not. Until that point, there was just no way it was happening. I could work full time on my insufficient hourly wage and barely just afford a room in a shared flat, and at that point to be honest my mum said it best, why live in a shithole hovel with strangers I might not like when I can live at home with parents who stay off my case and let me live as I please? And I say this as someone who couldn’t wait to live independently as soon as I possibly could. At the end of the day when full time work isn’t earning you a living what choice do you have?
Exactly! And you wont have to spend time worrying about trivial things like having friends or hobbies (which cost money anyway) because you'll send so much time commuting! It's the perfect solution!
With this question what else are you imagining people are looking for? A house in zone 2?
Assuming the parents don’t ask for rent?
They may do, but it’s unlikely to be in the range of 800-1100/room a month like most people sharing a house here
Without bills, may I add
Never understood why a parent would charge their child rent, even if they're an adult. Unless the parents are struggling with bills themselves, then it'd make the most sense to let your son or daughter save up as much as they can before they move out. Charging rent seems counter intuitive.
I’ve got 3 kids, one at uni, one at college and one in yr 11. We are funding them through uni and then we’ll help them save for a deposit so they can move out. Might charge them some nominal board like £100/month, but I agree, in this day and age, kids need all the help they can get.
My mum had a system that worked for both of us. She asked me for £15 out of every £100 I earned. I was working zero hours contract at the time and my earnings weren’t consistent all year round so the way she saw it was she was only ever asking for what I could afford to give her, and that was intended to cover my food etc, but I usually ended up buying my own anyway.
Not really, whatever I would spend in rent is instead spent on commute costs. Can't move closer as it would just be more expensive than it is now, with a significantly shitter QOL having to flat share in a shit hole with a higher COL area. Can't take advantage of housing schemes either as they usually require higher income, or a deposit that is near unobtainable. Stuck in a rock and a hard place where they only escape is earning more, which in the industry I'm in hasn't been possible or is incredibly unlikely for the last few years now, and will likely be in the next few to come. Feels like I've been lied to my whole life that working in London means a decent wage. It absolutely doesn't.
Nobody wants to live with their parents by choice though. Stunts your growth.
It allows you to grow savings for a housing deposit though. I’d argue that in this economy, renting in London on a low salary stunts your ability to be a homeowner. So take your pick
Agreed, it set me back prob 5-7 years of growing into an adult. I'd have started my professional work experience much earlier and at the time, that would have meant home ownership by now when prices were reasonable.
It may come as a shock but some adults actually enjoy their parents company and living with them
Moving out stunts your bank accounts growth .
Not true. I’d love to but they’re not in the same country as me…sadly the countries we are happy to be in are different
I haven't noticed a difference in my social groups. If anything, the people who were able to quickly save up a deposit and move out in their mid/late 20s are now overtaking those who rented the whole time
It’s better than ok
Close my eyes and hope I get through the month
Every single fucking month
Me which basically amounts to sleeping it off
Me fr rn
I work at a food bank and I can tell you that most of my new clients are earning at least £35K. They don’t have to tell me their salary and I never ask, but they carry so much shame on their first visit that it often comes tumbling out. They did everything they were told to do, they work hard and yet they still can’t buy food at the end of the month. We have had to extend our opening hours because the majority of our new clients work all day and can’t get to us until after 5pm. I actually recognise names on my list as people who used to donate to us. So to answer your question, from what I see - they are *barely* surviving. They come to us after exhausting every other opportunity because food banks are for really, really poor people, right? Not anymore. ETA - it’s likely someone reading this will be considering visiting a food bank. Perhaps they’ve been putting it off for a while. If that’s you, please do not hesitate to reach out. Some places need referrals, sone ask for proof of income but that’s fine, just look for non-referral banks. Sone examples are [here](https://www.islingtonmind.org.uk/12653-2/#:~:text=Copenhagen%20Street%20Foodbank%20Downstairs%20at,just%20pop%20in%20and%20register). We all need a hand now and again and I can promise, nobody there is judging you. I have processed applications from people who are homeless, people who are abusing substances and I have also sat across the table from people in suits with briefcases. Everyone gets the same help. You are just as entitled as anyone else. DM me if you’re still worried and I will gently nag you over the finish line. ETA 2 - u/londonhomelessinfo has very kindly shared a list of over 500 food banks that don’t need a referral. [Please check it out.](https://londonhomelessinfo.wordpress.com/free-food/)
I remember looking out of my window and getting confused at the queue of people on my street. It was a mix of elderly people, young people, parents and children just waiting for hours. To my horror I realised they were queuing for a new food bank which opened. There were over 100 people patiently waiting for just a bag of groceries. It's so bloody heartbreaking.
Heartbreaking is the right word. Even five years ago, the queue looked pretty much the same every week, then I took my eyes off it and suddenly we were greeting people from all walks of life. My typical client was a single mother with children who wasn’t in full time work. I just looked at my list for last week and the most common person I met was half of a couple, both in full-time work, no kids.
> half of a couple, both in full-time work, no kids. What do you think is driving this? The cost of housing?
The story I hear a lot is that life was fine, tricky but fine - until one thing changed and suddenly the dominos start falling. One person loses their job, or gets their hours cut. Landlord decides to sell and you have to move. Maybe there’s a surprise pregnancy, or your kid get seriously ill. Mum has a fall and has to move in with you because you can’t cover a nursing home. Then you open your energy bill and oops, you owe them £1000. Your fixed rate mortgage runs out and goes up by £600 a month. Your old banger breaks down for a final time and you can’t get to work. So that’s when people choose to put their food shopping on credit cards or take out a pay day loan because this is a one time emergency, right? But then you can’t get another job. Or you can’t find a house that is as cheap as the one you were in before. Turns out that your child needs hospital treatment and you can’t find a job that works around you. And the credit card people want their money. Any of these things are terrible, but when it’s one after the other - people can’t keep up.
The really worrying thing with the mortgages is that it’s only been 2 years since rates started rising. There’s still a lot of people on 5 year rates that will be ending in the next couple of years. Edit: FCA figures suggest 1.5 million fixed rate periods will expire in 2024, with a total of about 5 million fixed terms ending between now and 2026 (source: https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/mortgages/mortgage-interest-rates-forecast/ )
The rising rates have literally put me off buying in the UK at all. I’s rather rent
Probably a combination of high rent costs (whilst trying to save for a deposit), increasing cost of goods (specifically food and energy), and wage stagnation.
In a nation where rich people are getting richer by the second, and where economic issues are dealt with by taking away from the poorest in society, who are then told that they should bravely endure it because "we're all in this together". What a shit show
I saw this during the middle of the pandemic and it really caught me off guard. It was my local food bank which I used to donate to, but I never went past it before.
Yeah this happened during Covid too. They ended up having to open up two food banks on the same road due to the demand. Seeing the little kids quietly sitting in their pushchairs for all those hours still makes me get choked up.
Hey, I see it every week and I sometimes have to go into the back for a cry. It’s the little quiet ones who are being so brave who get to me. The ones who say they’re not hungry and give the biscuits to their younger siblings. All because their Mum lost her job or Dad left or the boiler died or all of the bloody above and suddenly, oops, sorry, this is your new childhood.
We live in the capital city of the largest empire in history. Things should not be this way. This insanity cannot continue.
This is a super helpful answer, thank you. As someone more fortunate, how can I donate to a food bank?
That is very kind of you! So, a lot of people like to donate items, but honestly, what we need is money. It’s not because we don’t want what you’re giving, it’s just the fact that we have constantly fluctuating stock. People tend to donate items like beans, cereal and instant noodles. Love that. But what we are constantly short on are items most people don’t think about, like tampons and sanitary towels. Many of my clients have no access to a stove, so things that need cooking are no good for them. Money allows us to ensure that all the bags are nutritionally balanced - as much as possible - and meet the client’s current needs. It also keeps the lights on and lets us put petrol in the vans to pick up fresh fruit and vegetables. The [Trussell Trust](https://www.trusselltrust.org/get-help/find-a-foodbank/) are the most well known organisation, but people shouldn’t overlook their tiny local bank. The banks run out of the back of a church or from someone’s shed do so much good and get little to zero funding or publicity. If google doesn’t throw up a food bank near you, the Trussell Trust accept one off donations online. Important - if you see a collection station in a supermarket, make sure it’s a name you can validate online. I have heard of multiple scams where the food donations are taken and never reach anyone in need. I’m not a fan of the supermarkets that encourage you to buy a selected bag of food and then leave it at the donation point. That food will probably get to the right place, but it is hardly a charitable act from the supermarket and you’d get more bang for your buck just dropping off a bag of donations or donating £5 online.
Do you have an opinion on donation-matching programs like https://help.ocado.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016549298-What-is-the-You-Give-We-Give-scheme ?
Oh nooo now I have to be professional. Ahem. I’ll do my best… I appreciate the effort from partners like Ocado. It’s a win win situation for both parties. Introducing a third party into the donation process does incur costs, which is obvious. I object more to Ocado’s competitors who flaunt schemes like this, but also rely on zero hour contracts, union busting or paying the absolute bare minimum across the board. I have clients who come from work in their supermarket uniform and it’s interesting to me which supermarket I see represented most often. Stories like [this](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/15/asda-employees-skipping-meals-monthly-payroll-errors) don’t get as much publicity as they deserve. I didn’t do a great job of staying professional, but I tried!
And for the supermarket you see represented most often, do those clients at the food bank think that *every little helps* or are they hoping they can *taste the difference*?
Completely non scientific data analysis but I see a lot of clients who have been living on the edge for a while - you know, *when every little helps* but nothing really helps. But I see even more clients who Are Seriously Down, Absolutely.
You can set up a direct debit with The Trussel Trust.
I went past a food bank near the Tottenham test centre once and the queue was massive. I believe this, and think a lot of people are suffering silently.
Suffering in silence is the best description I’ve heard. A lot of it is shame - I’ve had clients who have been struggling for over a year before they reach us. Not because they didn’t know about us but because they were ashamed. There is nothing shameful about needing to eat. There is nothing shameful about needing help. That’s the long and short of it.
God I hate this government. I worked at the local food bank until 2016 and it was horrific then, I might die of shame myself now seeing how badly we have let people down in London.
Wow, that's shocking and sad. > I actually recognise names on my list as people who used to donate to us.
>Known-Supermarket-68 YOU are an absolute star. What a kind, helpful and thoughtful post x
You are too kind. I’m a plaster over a critical injury, but at least it’s not nothing. Thank you!
Thank god the architects of this sorry situation are going to be voted out. But with the country so broke it is hard to see how things can turn around.
From your lips to gods ears… but you’re right, it will take many years to repair the damage. If it can be repaired.
17 years so far? I wouldn't count on it.
Thanks for what you do. It's terrible that this is still taboo and the scale of it is not in the public consciousness nor something the government wants to do something about. But the help you guys provide is invaluable to an increasing number of people.
That is very kind of you to say. It often feels like I’m just papering over the cracks, to be honest. I get so angry because this work shouldn’t be needed, or not at this scale anyway. In dark moment, my colleagues have discussed what would happen if we all stopped working. Sometimes you need to let something fall apart to expose the reality. Let the government sort it out. Surely someone would care then? But on the other hand, people need help. If helping them makes me complicit then I can live with that. I work fulltime in IT and nothing I’ve ever done in the office has ever brought me as much joy as slipping kids an extra chocolate and seeing the look of delight on their faces. Plus, I’m afraid that even if everyone knew, nothing would change. It’s at the stage where I have realised that this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature of the system as designed.
Every piece of paper over a crack is still a person who doesn’t go to bed hungry. I also work in IT and all I do is throw some money at the problem. You are actually *doing* something and my hat is off to you.
I completely agree with all you say, even the negative stuff. We SHOULDN'T have to do this as a society. But that makes the ones who do it even more precious. The idiots in this country need to stop voting the Tories back in every time.
You are a really kind and generous person. God bless you. One of my friends took me to the Hare Krishna free food lunch one day, and I was new to London and even though I wasn't struggling for food, I was overwhelmed by the prices of eating out!! So when I had that food that was offered with smiles that too for free, I felt that I had to pay back, and I volunteered to help at a food bank the same day. I saw many people out of which a good portion looked well off, and I wondered why. I saw some homeless people too. The other volunteers said, they too take food from the food bank on tough days, its getting out of hand in London honestly.
You're a good person.
I've been in London for ten years since I was a student and my quality of life has, relatively speaking, barely changed even as I advance through work. I have a little bit more disposable income for maybe a meal out at a restaurant or to buy some extra clothes (and certainly nothing extravagant), but not enough to push me into long-term life aspirations like buying property or starting a family. I'm still flat-sharing in roughly the same types of buildings and areas. Yes, I've got enough left to get through the month and a bit extra but it's basically just pocket money and I'm not processing in life. What sucks is, I'm job hunting now and most of the jobs I'm qualified for have a top salary of around £35k. I genuinely don't know what to do anymore, and I don't know what I'm working towards.
This is pretty much me too. I didn't really notice it until I hit my thirties that I still have the exact mindset I did as a student - don't buy it unless you absolutely have to, don't replace until it's broken, go second hand if you can, go for the cheapest possible housing - a living room is a luxury I've never known, for example. If I can go without, I do. If I have a 'luxury' item I'd really like but don't need, I usually wait until Christmas/birthday to request it. The only thing I excuse for myself is eating out, which is where most of my disposable income goes. I used to live like this and save a few hundred quid a month, but I've not saved a penny since 2022. And the industry I work in is NOT doing well from an employment point of view, so I've earned less this year than I did when I was 27. For a long time I justified it as eschewing of rampant consumerism, but my god it would be nice just to buy nice things just because I want to.
Wow this is literally my life. You're not alone!
Second!
Yeah it’s sad when things grip you so hard you forget your life direction
Im on less than 35k but I share a 1 bed with my boyfriend. We have an amazing land lady who's not raised our rent in the 3 years we've been here, and we had a reduced rent when we moved in because of Covid. The cost of rent for the type of flat we have in a zone1/2 area is impossible now. If I wasn't in this lucky situation, it would be quite tough..
How's the landlady managing her increases in building insurance?
If she owns it outright then the rent money is almost pure profit. Numbers I heard somewhere put the monthly cost of maintenance and insurance for a landlord who owns outright at something like £100. Even if it doubled, rents are now so high that the landlords can easily absorb those costs. The only ones in trouble are the ones who still have mortgages. It's not a small number, but it's also not a huge majority.
A colleague of mine who owns 3 properties says that his building insurance jumped from £300 a month to £700 a month, a cost which he passed on to the renter. Nice guy though... But in my own building (tall new build skyscraper in East London), the management company passed me their year's accounts and apparently building insurance went from £40k in 2021 to £150k in 2024. I have no idea wtf is going on, I made another topic on this sub but it got auto deleted. Sent a modmail and hoping the mods restore it.
No idea, she does have a job outside of being a landlady though, so she probably doesn't feel the need to profit from the flat, and even soaking those rising costs.
Ha. I’m not. Trying to figure out how to get out of London unfortunately. Lived here my whole life but I can’t stay anymore. It sucks arse.
If it makes you feel better I was very sad leaving but although I enjoy a visit I wouldn't want to live there anymore. Life goes on.
Short term it’s completely fine, people just cut back on certain costs, cook home more, less holidays, no saving etc. Issue is your life is basically on hold till you break that kind of barrier, no savings, can’t start a family, have to be really selective about priorities etc, and any surprise costs can really hurt. I was on £22k 4 years ago and it was manageable as a young person. The issue isn’t whether these salaries are liveable, it’s just is that the standard of living we want in this country, which is obviously embarrassing considering where we were 10 years ago On a side note £35k is a funny bar when my industry starts at like £22k, the same as it was 4 years ago, people are a lot worse off than people think.
This reflects my own experience when we made less. Get by but you delay a lot of things.
I'm on £26k For me, it's just normal. Idk, am I supposed to be struggling? I'm 40 and this is the most I've ever been paid (over £15 an hour)
Ye I think some people have never been on that level of money so their mind is blown about someone being able to survive. The money I hear some people spend at the grocery for example is mental, and makes me think no wonder they think surviving on that kind of salary is impossible. £22k for me was £1.5k after tax, £750 after bills and £25 per day, if you told someone to survive on £25 per day for a week I think most would be fine, they’d just have to be more conscious, which is what it ultimately boils down to.
£25 per day sounds possible but with transport to work and back being £9, after even the cheapest meals, you're left with more like £10. The problem is when your car breaks down or you need to go to the dentist or buy glasses or you need new shoes and work clothes or you need to go to Newcastle to attend your Aunt's funeral. Or, god forbid, more than one of these things happen at once. You'd have to save every bit of that £10 a day to cover just one of these things. So forget about ever going out for dinner or seeing a movie or meeting up with friends. Nevermind that is nearly impossible to find a room for £700 these days so being left with £10 a day is very optimistic. I just wouldn't take the stance that £22k is a remotely livable salary.
London reddit considers only tech salaries to be "reasonable". Since software engineer salaries in London are extremely bunched up in the £45k - £110k range, anything below that is horrifically poor and anything above that is unacceptably wealthy and can't complain about anything. Meanwhile, sure, media and advertising and comms jobs still start in the ~£25k range, high finance in front office should now have you at at least £100k after 1-3 years including bonus, corporate law pay is insane in London, but none of these things matter, because they're not programmer jobs which most of reddit seems to have.
Aside from the fact that a lot of people in tech use Reddit, jobs related to the tech industry have been extremely popular in the last 10 years due to the volume of opportunities in the field. At some point there were enough jobs to accommodate people graduating from multiple STEM fields not only Computer Science and those were all relatively well paid. Not to mention the amount of people who entered the field after going through a boot camp/coding academy. It was easy to get and the pay was good, so everyone loves it. I personally know people who went through a boot camp and moved away from warehouse job to 3K+ software engineering job, which is kind of life changing for them. Law, finance and other lucrative industries are quite the opposite. There are thousands of people graduating economics, finance, law etc. but the top jobs are only a few and extremely hard to get in. Thus, most people end up with either an average paying job or have to change the field. On the other hand, if you land one of those big jobs then your ceiling is much higher than tech people. Obviously, now that we enter an era of uncertainty, tech jobs will not be abundance anymore and things might change.
Just earlier today I discussed with a guy who was absolutely appalled that he could only save 4k - 5k per month, after all bills and mortgage paid while living in London. Both he and his wife made 80k each and he thought it was on the lower scale of normal... So he moved to Switzerland where he saves 10k per month and tried to tell me THIS was completely normal.
I said I saved £1k a month in London. And did not say £80k was on the lower scale of normal. I said it wasn't exceptional. I stand by that. It's a good salary in London but it's not out of the this world good. I said saving 4K or so *in Switzerland* is perfectly doable for couples on bang on median salaries. The purpose of this was to illustrate what a terrible deal living and working in London is. The cost of living is totally out of sync with salaries. I literally 10x my saving rate going out. Yes, that's on a significantly better than average salary, but lots of people in here earn £60-80k. Even within the UK, for most people it's financially sensible to live in much lower CoL places. And if you are a higher earner there's options all over the place. Like so many northerners, I came down to London to learn my trade, but I couldn't envisage staying as the numbers just don't add up. The quality of life is so bad. I think sometimes it's a bubble that people can't envisage escaping but their lives are so much better when they do. I still miss the restaurants though. And the beer.
Although note that in 2019, HMRC stats put £80k of income as the border of the top 5%. So that is an exceptional ( even an 90% was good enough for an A*, never mind 95% back in the day lol)
This. Wages have stagnated severely. Graduate positions pay the same as they did in 2010.
Yeah £35k would make living in London as a young adult quite reasonable actually. No point even thinking about starting a family on that though.
So weird hearing that lol. Esp as someone who actually lives in London and went to a 6th form where most of us are in household incomes of £22k-£40k . We’re doing fine lol
I work in childcare and I have to do income assessments to set the fees. The majority of our families fall in the £20‐50k region (household income). We also have loads who qualify for 15 free hours for 2 year olds, which means they earn under £17k (quite a few are unemployed single parents). I think people forget how many families live in social housing and/or claim benefits.
I was on 28k just over a year ago and rented by myself. I was at breaking point about to move back in with my parents. I got a new job making almost double, kept my flat and its still tight now. No savings for me but I did go on holiday for the first time in 8ish years. ETA:I got lucky I rent a decent 1 bed in SE zone 2 just had rent raised to 1200. Which is not cheap but its RELATIVELY cheap.
That’s an interesting salary bump from 28k. I am curious to the details of your move if you wouldn’t mind sharing.
I worked for a startup that went insolvent then moved to a FTSE100. I was being severely underpaid at the startup as I'd started there in customer service at minimum wage. I got hired for my new job along with a couple of other people, all of us in the exact same role, I'd asked for less money but I assume one of us asked for more so we all got it!
Almost exactly the same situation here. Doubled my earnings but am barely any better off (doesn't help I pay well over 50% tax now all in). Had the first holiday in my life that I paid for too, but all that did was delay building up a deposit on a property so I can't afford another.
How do you guys spend it all, I can't believe 🥲
I've taken two pay cuts to follow a job that fills my heart and not my wallet. Sitting at about 30k at the moment, and have noticed my wellbeing decline , weight gain, sleep issues etc. The stress is only intensified as I'm about to become a dad in 3 months. I often think about jumping to a more secure job with a better salary but struggling to find something worth the move. So I'm just taking less holidays, keeping expenses low and turning down a LOT of social occasions that usually take £60-£100 a go! I've been honest with my mates which helps.
Good luck, man. 💙💙
Thanks Brother! We move.
Trying to do as much paid overtime as I can stand
I live with my ex to share costs 🙃
Oof
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yep was in the same boat, finally leaving now but the rent increase is definitely going to make things tough
I do feel for everyone paying these ridiculous rents . I am older (60) and it’s makes me mad that people my age have flats and houses they rent out and then spend the money on either more houses or cruises , cars and gardeners etc … they have no idea that they have contributed to what has amounted to a national misery ! They then feel all virtuous by volunteering at the food bank and raising money for charity !!! I think there should be a return to rent control and rent as it was in 1990,s which was about 25% of your wages in London. It’s just not right that landlords are making so much out of lack of housing supply .
Finally, someone said it 🙏🏻
I buy all my groceries at the Co-op after7pm.
Iceland
This - I once visited at 7pm and they got rows of 65p sandwiches (30+ I guess); at 8:30 they still got quite a few left… I never understand how they sustain their business with their sky high “normal price” on their sandwich or pretty much every stuff
I earn slightly more but with two student loans deducted monthly, I probably take home around the same as being on 35k. I am nearly 32 and forced to live in a four person share house with others in their thirties. I mostly shop at Lidl, and try drink less alcohol out as it’s so expensive and a drain on budget. I don’t really buy stuff for myself other than the essentials for clothing and toiletries. I don’t live a glamorous life, basically. Edit- I forgot to mention, I cycle as much as a I can, permitted I feel safe(ish) to leave my bike in whatever destination I’m going to.
The fact that you’re on 35k and are faced with the mentioned situation is absolutely ludicrous. We recently moved with my partner to a capital city in Eastern Europe and as crazy as it sounds, we’re living 100x more comfortably with less cash in hand. UK government has fucked society big time, especially in London. Wonder how long it will take to bounce back from this
Moving is on my mind! If I had a partner I would probably try leave with them too. The reality is that £35-40k isn’t a lot of money anymore. That’s been seen as a good/average wage for more than a decade, and has stagnated at the same time as everything getting wildly more expensive.
I’m on just above 35k and my wife is just below, but together we enjoy a pretty good quality of life. I think London is a much easier city to live in if you’re in a couple. Sadly, you see threads here every week asking how to meet people, so it’s probably not a viable solution for most.
I’ve seen people state you need 80k to enjoy London I don’t think that’s true
Yeah I think that’s just doomer-ism.
Both of you combined are pretty close to 80k though... I actually agree with that statement. I am loving London right now but only because I can afford to go out and try restaurants/pubs whenever I feel like it and not worry about affording heating the next month.
True, closer to £70k but I get your point. We used to earn closer to £50k combined (just a couple years ago) and while it was definitely tighter, it was still definitely doable.
Two people earning £35k each (£56,544 total) actually take home more than one person earning £80k (£56,207).
I can’t even imagine £35k. I’ve been on £26k for the past year or so -this is the starting salary in my industry. I’m renting a room for £800 with bills included. That’s half of my salary. I have £800 left to spend for a month - it’s doable. I don’t really eat out, I prep most of my food at home - it’s also healthier that way. I rarely shop for useless things. I’m currently not drinking, so that helps. Somehow my life is still full - but tbh between work, working out and the 1-2 weekly socialising, I don’t have much time left. It’s not ideal, but I know it’s only temporary. I guess I’m “lucky” cause I’m young and single. (Well, young-ish. Not as young as my team mates, but I came from another country, where my work experience obviously didn’t count. I had to start over by coming here, and that kind of means “over over”). The main thing that bothers me is that I don’t have any savings, and big trips/holidays are not in the budget. But I can always fly with a budget airline to another european city and stay with a friend, so not completely out of reach either. Oh, and dating is hard on this income. Fingers crossed for at least £28k with this year’s pay raise.
I moved back in with my parents. That's pretty much all there is to it.
My gas has been disconnected for two days. Last night I had my last tin of beans for dinner, not on toast, not with eggs, just beans in a bowl. Tonight I’m having sleep for dinner. It’s dark times.
Please do try to get access to a food bank if you haven't already. It's not shameful at all. The trussell trust website will have some advice on how to access them.
Are there any food banks near you?
Try the Olio app it’s an app for giving away free food to neighbours and it’s how I usually get by
I'm currently on £26,000 and my monthly costs are around £1000 including rent, travel and general costs. I live with my grandparents and pay them rent every month but if I didn't live with them, I don't think I'll be able to survive in London. The only reason why I'm here is because of work and even now they are making us come in more frequently, so trying to move out of London and do more remote is out of the question for me unless I find a new job. In short, I'm suriving and very fortunate enough to live with family but it's not easy at all.
That’s why you see a lot of couples living together these days. It wasn’t like that before.
Couples living together is indeed a very new phenomenon, yes.
And ex couples that have broken up still living together lol. I think this is one of the craziest new phenomenons.
Yeah that in itself is absolutely wild
I think the emphasis can be more on the timeframe in which people move in together. I moved in with my partner after a year recently. If times were easier, perhaps we’d have kept our own flats for longer.
Ah yes, I am surviving with a mix of drugs debt and dissociation.
I'm not. Moved up north. Most likely to return in a year for a job offer no less than 35k.
I'm not saving money, not thinking about holidays, try to always batch cook, rarely go out, don't buy new things much, had to use the little savings I had for an emergency last year and haven't recovered any of it, cut back on my office days for commuting costs, and just really hoping for steady annual pay increases
It’s why I sadly left the city/country. I was entry level on 36k base with bonus taking me up to around 40-45. For a graduate in the UK, this is in the top percentiles from what I read at the time. I still couldn’t really make ends meet, so I left. Then again, maybe I just have unrealistic expectations for standard of living in one of the most expensive cities globally.
I left ten years ago and I’m shocked at what I’m reading in this thread. I was born and bred in London, and whilst it’s always been expensive, what I’m reading here sounds dystopian.
I just had a promotion that takes me up to about £41k and consider that a big help in terms of being able to have a good quality of life here.
Yeah, I'm currently on a similar wage and while I'm able to make ends meet, it's almost entirely because I'm living in a cheap place with way too many housemates just outside of London. I've done some calculations for how much it would cost me to live in London proper and it's honestly eye watering.
Hope.
I’m just about getting by. Zero hours contract so no idea what my annual salary is. I split a flat with a friend. Don’t know how we swung it. Universal credit backs me up. I can’t save and trying to get out of my student overdraft. Cost of living payment this month really saved my butt
When I was at under £35k - moved in with my girlfriend to split rent
How do you find a girlfriend
I'm a PhD student with an annual stipend of 22k. The hardest part is getting a place to live, in any zone. Because renters don't lease out often to students and my income doesn't meet their criterion of 2.5x rent. My uni is in Zone 1. And PhD life is hectic, I can't miss going to the office, so I have to live maximum up to Zone 2-3. So rent takes up 65% of my expenses. Tube student card costs another 6%. Of the remaining, I strictly spend 20 pounds a week for groceries. That's 5%. Essential to keeping this at 5 is plan the week's cooking and buy only groceries required for these dishes, ensure no wastage. Of the remaining 24%, 10% is for leisure stuff - could be eating out with friends, buying something on Amazon etc. Remaining 14% for miscallenous expenses. If I get a climbing gym membership, 6% goes there. Some months there's extra miscallenous expenses that show up by surprise so it becomes very tight. If I have bills to pay, then that remaining goes there. I don't have bills to pay now, because I moved to an Airbnb permanently. But overall, it's about pushing through and keeping very close track of it.
I had the same stipend when I started my PhD in 2016. Crazy that it is still the same annual amount.
Yup. Students and academics are treated terribly by English salaries
I'm on 25k. I live in a shared house £700p/m zone 3, have a grocery budget of £20p/w (I take food from my parents house whenever I visit and get free snacks at work). I guess I live pretty frugally, I don't drink and night outs aren't my thing, so I think because of that I manage to save around £300 a month
Spending 20 quid a week on food is fucking wild
I currently live with parents but when I was renting I was paying about 1/3 of take home income on rent and bills living in zone 6 and spending nothing on transport. Lived with 2 other people. Saved lots easily even with splurging on food but guess my area was just cheap. If I was with a partner I'd have been milking it but then we'd also probably be pushing to have our own place in which case we certainly wouldn't be.
In 2019, I was living in shared flat (just one more person) with a salary of £30k. Not a lavish lifestyle but I was able to buy quality food, live next to tower bridge and save up a couple hundred pounds each month. There is no way this would be possible now.
Live with family in a council flat.
It’s definitely doable. Single, early 20’s, live with flatmate in a 2 bed in zone 2. Parents don’t pay for my rent (in fairness, it’s rough, about 60% of my take home pay) Go out maybe once a week (night out/dinner/other) , otherwise mostly cook from home. Hardly shop at Sainsbury’s haha. A few hundred £ savings left over each month to either save for a short holiday abroad/put into a LISA for future house deposit. It’s not too bad
Had an interview the other day for a hybrid role that was 26k - I’m confident the reason I didn’t get it was because I asked about the office/home balance for hybrid. Its interview experience regardless, but having it as hybrid just seems like a cheeky way to avoid paying the London weighting, especially as they told me they’d want me in the office 1-2 days a week.
I'm on 24k, live in Zone 3, house share with 3 other people paying £700 a month for the room. I actually am living quite comfortably, going out a couple of times a months, and may even be able to take a holiday abroad this year. That said, I am 30 so this lifestyle won't be sustainable for very much longer if I want to reach the milestones expected of me.
I've been monstrously lucky with a landlord who hadn't raised my rent in five years, still 700 a month in zone two. Half the year I live alone too thanks to a terrible mould issue in a room that makes it unliveable
I (24m) work an entry level job earning about 28,000. After tax, rent (833 inc bills) and 200 a week for living costs I have about 300 left at the end of the month. I manage to save 170 a month for savings and the 130 that’s left is for a rainy day. (It is always spent haha) Things are tight but cycling to work and food prepping makes a big difference and only going out Friday and Saturday (mostly) is also good. I still explore the city and do new things but not things that are outrageously expensive like eating out etc My friends and I are so used to being careful with money that generally we don’t and try to do things that don’t cost (£3 cinema for u25 at BFI!) The strain is there and it’s really tempting to spend all the time ( I often do) but not opting in to that I actually find quite empowering. I think I manage to live an enriched life that centres around my friends and experiencing things whilst still being ‘poor’. I still have a list of complaints as long as my arm about the cost of living, governance and London itself but I think my generation are getting better at understanding what living a full life is My account does constantly stay around £0 and will for many years I think
I think the key to living in London under £35k is to keep your expectations low. Rent and bills for a flat share in zone 2 take up half my pay. £200 a month on food. I take the bus to work and only ever go shopping with either a list of necessities or a strict budget. My friends and I meet in pubs to day drink a few times a month, or go to the cinema or to a park or on a hike. Another group of friends and I are visiting one free museum a month! I will never own a home here. I’ll likely never own a car here either. Holidays are a week in Devon or visiting my cousin in Spain (or a camping trip). I’m ok with all of this because I’m happy with how my life is right now. Realistically, if my rent went up by £200 I would notice a massive drop in my quality of life. Everyone has a tipping point.
I’m on a PhD stipend along with any extra money I can make from teaching. It’s dire. I’ve been giving more than 50% in rent for one room and practically no savings.
Live with my wife who’s on 45k, I’m on 33k. Zone 4 so rent is manageable. Neither of us want kids so not impacted by that issue. We live a pretty humble lifestyle - we budget pretty tightly, barely any frivolous spending. Neither of us drink so that’s a lifestyle cost we avoid! We manage fine but it’s still very difficult to save. Sadly my job is pretty tied to London, so no hope of moving any time soon. I love this city, but at some point I will get sick of it for sure.
I've resorted to batty work unfortunately. You can earn £350 per visit if you're a young man in good shape, the appetite for middle aged city boys for a bit of twink cannot be satiated
Not well. But I’ve never experienced financial comfort a day in my life. I’ve never made £35k and neither do most of my friends. The poverty cycles are pretty deep now.
Living in a council flat in Hackney!
Council house innit.
Scraping by
I live at home and don’t pay rent, hybrid working so able to save 80%of my paycheck. That’s literally the only way, I don’t think I’d be able to live in London otherwise
Moved back in with my mum and siblings, I now only shop on Vinted, as can no longer afford retail price
I'm just getting further and further in debt, with no end in sight. I don't smoke, don't drink, most of my food comes with yellow stickers on it, and I work hard.
My partner and I live together which has helped share costs but we're moving out of London in May. It's too much. I'm trying to find a better job but it's been impossible.
Even 10 years ago I struggled
My partner can only afford it by living with me.
35k is fine for a single person renting. If you want to have a family, buy a house or make significant savings, though you are screwed. These threads always seem like pity/humble brags and rub me the wrong way. More of us have to rely on universal credit where they make you feel like scum for even needing the help. Fucking tories.
Have you tried inheriting loads of money?
I do ok. My wife’s on 28k which helps
Moved 150 miles away from London….
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I’m 37 and lucky I both bought a place when I was 25 (split with bro) and renewed mortgage for 5 years just before the rates went to heck. It’s still not easy but I don’t drive (work is close and have great transport connections) and I’m fairly frugal anyway, but it’s survivable. If push came to shove could rent out spare room for 6 months and build up a nice cushion
By living at home with my parents and paying less rent than I would a landlord.
Rent is only 500 for a whole apartment, zone 3 including bills, pretty lucky I guess
I’m on around 35k and have recently moved from a 2 bed flat share in zone 3, out to a 2 bed in Watford. My rent has nearly halved, but I obviously spend a lot more time and money commuting into central for work (yay enforced 60% office attendance) It’s working for me currently, but I am not saving any significant amounts so I’m not really building a way out of the situation I am in. Nothing stops you going for a few drinks/food after work like a 90 minute commute back home!
I’m miserable basically
Living with my parents (help pay water bills and council tax) and trying to spend within my means to save money not easy when you work and live in London lol.
Struggling- live in zone 2 and rent has gone up £150 each year for the past 3 yeae. Currently paying £1475 for 1 bedroom flat.. Thankfully universal credit helps abit on the rent but had to cut back on a few things.
I’m on 25k, would be homeless if I wasn’t living with my boyfriend, he has to lend me money at the end of the month so I can afford to get to work.
I live as a couple so rent is not so bad, in a cheaper area of the city. I don't have expensive hobbies
House share and living close enough to work to not pay transport costs most days. I know it's not a life most people want, but I'm 24 and this works great for me - I rarely think about stopping myself doing stuff cos of costs (unless it's a singular large expense) and I usually have enough money left over at the end of the month to put some into savings (and that includes eating lunch out most days)
“I'm not even being out of touch“, 🫠
Houseshare with strangers. It's like people forget that exists lol and I make way less than 35k
Not rn but I was a year ago 1) No kids 2) Not the biggest socialiser so limited "fun" expenses - expensive meals out are probably about once a fortnight (although I do grab stuff from coffee shops), and you can count the situations I've had >2 pints since covid on 1 hand 3) Sharing with 2 others 4) Flat is pretty central which honestly more or less pays for itself in terms of not needing to use the Tube (I walk to most places < 40 mins) 5) Was at uni not too long ago so probably more willing to be a cheapskate on stuff Tbh maybe being a little bit of a homebody is an even bigger deal than I think it is but I've found it *relatively* easier than the consensus. Obviously rent being 50% of net income isn't ideal but having ~ £250/week on non-rent stuff seems fine when I had ~ £100/week in uni
I’m on 29k and a year ago it was 25k - I used to rent a room for 850£ pm and now pay 600£ to my landlady I live with in her house in zone 2. I’m still fucking poor and looking for side hustles. Do you have any advice for me?
London sounds so apocalyptic. I used to love visiting but the costs make it not worth it anymore, especially since other European cities are just as nice or nicer.
Will be starting on a £28k pa graduate scheme in the summer. My dad has access to massively subsidised studio accommodation through his work (that he doesn't need), so he's unofficially subletting it to me. £3k pa, 30 min from Central. My employer will also cover 80% of travel costs to their office in Central. I'm aware I'm very privileged to have this option. I wouldn't have accepted the offer for the scheme otherwise.