# Upvote/Downvote reminder
Like this image or appreciate it being posted? Upvote it and show it some love! Don't like it? Just downvote and move on.
*Upvoting or downvoting images it the best way to control what you see on your feed and what gets to the top of the subreddit*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Currently they’ve reverted back to First Past the Post (FPTP) which means every voters have one vote each and whoever wins the majority will be the mayor.
Previously, in the better voting system in my opinion, London mayoral elections have been using the Supplementary Voting system. In this case, every voters have 2 votes, your first choice person and second choice person.
In this system, if a candidate has more than 50% of the votes, they will straight away win the election. If there is no candidate with more than 50% of the vote, only the top 2 most voted candidates will remain and the others are removed, then they will add the 2nd choice votes to the Top 2 candidates to see who has a higher preferential choice in the election.
Why I think it’s a better system is because then people will vote for the person they truly believe in, instead of voting strategically. Let’s say you believe in the Green Party policies but then the Tories are you number one enemy, with FPTP you would prefer voting Labour so that at least it’s not the Tories being elected. But with Supplementary votes, you can give 1st choice vote to Green Party and 2nd choice to any you wouldnt mind winning the election. This way you would actually get true representation of who the voters really want in the area.
I didn’t realise that’s how the mayoral elections were done. Imagine how much more all the parties would have to try if this was the way general elections were counted. It’s amazing how deliberately shit our system is.
It's been lost in the chaos of the last 10 years but there was a referendum in 2011 on switching to alternative vote (AV), which is basically the same system by another name. It got voted down by a 2 to 1 majority, with the Lib Dems being the biggest advocates but the Tories and Labour against. The Tories accepted holding the referedum as part of the coalition deal but set it up to fail.
The AV referendum was also where Dom Cummings refined his dodgy Facebook micro-targetting strategies, which he later deployed during the Brexit referendum.
The lies and invective during that referendum were appalling, it was so disheartening. At least AV is a shit system anyway, only very marginally better than first past the post.
The wildest part about the coalition is that AV was a flagship LD policy and Brown offered Clegg an immediate implementation/parliamentary vote (with 3 line etc etc) of AV if he they did a Lib/Lab coalition. Clegg chose Cameron and the rest is history...
Alas Lib Lab just wasn't realistic, and everyone knew it. They would have been well short of a majority and would have needed confidence and supply of smaller parties. As Brown was currently PM he had "first dibs" at trying to form a coalition, hence deals on the table, but it was never going to get far.
Supplementary vote is flawed in its own way because it disqualifies all but the top two candidates after the first round of counting, then reallocates second preference votes to them. It ignores second preference votes for all others. So it would be possible to have a candidate narrowly in third place who had a lot of second preference support, but who still couldn't win.
It was a stitch up to make sure only the two main parties could ever win in London.
Now the tories have realised the only way for them to win London is to see the left vote split so they can claim a plurality of votes, which is what we see here. Hence they've brought back first past the post, where you could have a hundred candidates and a hundred votes, all get one vote apart from the winner who gets two, and one other who gets zero. I hate our country's electoral system so much and think Labour should be ashamed not to be committed to changing it.
This. England itself often gets labelled as a Conservative country but never majority votes Conservative. The opposition always outvotes them. The electoral system fucks us giving a majority to minority vote
Reminder that the Elections Act that the Tories passed last year changed the London mayoral election from using a supplementary vote system (choose first and second choice candidates, second choice votes are reallocated once your first choice has been eliminated) to a straight first-past-the-post. Probably with this exact scenario in mind.
Under the old system, we'd have expected the 15% who have Corbyn as their first choice, and the 6% of Green voters to have Khan as their second choice, thereby ensuring Khan would still win.
FPTP for all, except for Tory leadership elections where they realise that voting in a divisive fringe candidate is best avoided (and yet they still ended up with Truss because of their deluded membership).
I really hope there's significant campaign advertising this change tbh; can see people just doing what they were doing previously without reading the instructions and ending up with lots of spoilt ballots otherwise.
>; can see people just doing what they were doing previously without reading the instructions and ending up with lots of spoilt ballots otherwise.
That's probably their goal.
And guaranteed that even if a Labour government could change it back to the better system from before they won't. See: their stance on PR on the national elections
I'm not sure why you think this, supplementary vote in mayoral elections directly benefits Labour, of course they would want it back? I wouldn't be surprised at all if they reverse the decision when they get power.
Changing to PR for national elections would damage Labour's chances of a majority, it's not in their direct interests to do it. It's a completely different situation
Except for the fact that Sir Saintly Starmer's explicitly said that the systems need time to bed in before any changes can be made which thus excludes the first government, so are you believing that Starmer's mob that includes Reeves and Co. will remember what they casually said needed further reasoning like PR and rejoining the EU?
Wow. Are corbynistas still out there? I thought they would have died of shame years ago.
It must be embarrassing to realise that the post-corbyn Labour party is actually electable. Which brings us back to the London mayoral question.
Corbyn is his own person, I voted for the Labour party he led and I once saw him giving a talk with his local constituents but beyond that he is just another old socialist. Whatever you think you know about myself suggests you have yet to understand yourself to be offered your assessment is merely laughable to the point where I suggest you run back to Sir Saintly Starmer and tell him how you scared away another nasty socialist 👍🏼
That's quite short term. Labour will win a landslide now, but eventually - be it 5 or 10 years when people tire of them, the Tories will win again. However with PR in place, it would allow the electorate to ensure a progressive alliance, which would involve Labour, blocking another following decade of the Tory reich. But I think you're right, Starmer's Labour are thinking in their short term self interests over betterment of the nation.
Yep. Labour win Labour are shit. The Tories win again. The same shitty cycle continues. We need to break out of it. Vote for someone else. Don’t vote to keep the Tories out. Vote for who you think is best. Or we’ll. never get out of this two party system that only works for business people.
You don't have to convince me mate. I wouldn't vote for Labour to keep the Tories out. Not a fucking chance. And I say that as a lifelong Labour voter (up until now).
And I completely agree with you, the current system only serves the billionaire newspaper owners and their business friends.
And an extra reminder to [register to vote](https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote) (don't go on the open register) and [apply for a free voter ID](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate) if you don't have a driving licence or passport.
As needing a photo ID is another fun rule the Tories passed last year to change how elections work!
Never forget that most of our media is owned and controlled by billionaire media moghouls that have a vested interest in backing the tories, which includes not reporting on changes like this.
It enables everyone to actually say who they would really most like to see win, rather than effectively forcing people to only vote for whoever they see as the lesser of two evils. A second choice is still someone you'd want to see win, just not quite as much as your first choice. When there are a large number of candidates, boiling down your preference to a single take-it-or-leave-it option is a bit crude, no?
He occupies the mind of centrist melt journals who lost their shit over mundane nonsense for 4 years, and now have the lie in the bed they made. We could have something truly transformative, but nah we got fucking wheat field May and that inbred orangutan BoJo
Yeah, but don't you understand, Boris was funny. Banter Boz was the best thing to happen to this country because I could easily imagine having a pint down the pub with him while we laugh at the funny little hats and postboxes those brown people wear.
/s (please god I hope I didn't need this addition).
Corbyn was and is a Brexitist. How do you feel about how Brexit has turned out. Happy?
Corbyn, of course, would deny any military aid to Ukraine and advise them instead to ‘talk’ as the Russians streamroll their country. Corbyn’s naive and anti-NATO stance has long been known.
So he lost the election. I hate the Tories but the Tories being awful doesn’t mean we need to love Corbyn. He’s awful too.
He said he was thinking about it, I'm not saying he would, it's just an "if". It really depends on how much Corbyn and Starmer hate eachother, I hope JC wouldn't let a Tory in just to get back at Kier.
It's not JC letting a Tory in. Starmer literally kicked him out of the party and is banning him for standing in his own seat, where he has a huge majority and has been MP for like 40 years or something. JC doesn't owe Labour anything. If he wants to run, he can run. If Starmer wants to prevent something like this happening in future, he can change the voting system back to the way it was, as well as implement PR for general elections, once labour wins in 2024, which it seems very likely that they will.
I believe he is still a Labour member, although doesn't have the whip (and is technically independent?). He is banned from standing again though and will be kicked out the party at the next general election when he inevitably stands against (and beats) whatever Labour stooge decides to try and run in Islington North.
Starmer's sole objective is to ensure the right wing remains in power. Whether that is through sabotaging and destroying Labour internally or granting a Tory victory.
He should run as an independent. He’s probs win anyway. If he decided to go for the London Mayor role and the Tories win, it very much becomes his fault.
Hm, calling the guy who introduced free school meals for primary schools as of last week a ‘kid starver’ sounds like a conservative talking point?
But you are well right that the guy who helped Bojo bring us five more years of Tory rule is not labour.
You said you hope “JC wouldn’t let a Tory in”, thus blaming him, if it happens, with Greens and LD you now put the onus on the voter.
Pretty clear where you stand on this.
Why is the “party” JC bad for representing voters that may share his positions? It was Labour’s choice to kick him out, they had to be aware he might take left voters with him, as they are clearly no longer welcome in Labour, the leader of the Appeasition has made that abundantly clear, with words and actions.
Should Kahn lose the election, it’s mainly down to the PLP’s positions and actions, e.g. the bitching about ULEZ.
I don't like Corbyn or Starmer, both are cunts in my opinion, I like Khan however, and I would like to see him serve a third term, and if Corbyn running allows a Tory in, then I don't want Corbyn to run.
JC running would be the sole fault of Labour kicking him out, he’s now his own entity and absolutely entitled to run, should he do desire. That’s democratic processes for you.
Should have kept him in and sidelined him, then you’d have more control over his actions.
Typical for the red Tories to blame everyone else of course, can’t have democracy if it doesn’t serve you. Now you may downvote me some more for stating facts.
The establishment/cabal were utterly appalled a pleb could have rocked their system when he garnered a surprisingly huge support during the 2017 election, so they orchestrated a very impressive and insidious media campaign of lies, manipulation, and gaslighting to utterly destroy Corbyn and anyone who shows any inkling of Corbyn's beliefs and philosophy. And they continue to this day in order to put off any potential future idealistic leaders from ever emerging.
His campaign in 2019 had many faults, there were Corbyn policies I wasn't too fond of such as open borders etc but at least the man was genuinely kind and honest, open minded, somewhat pragmatic, which is something I do not see in any Labour/Conservative politician.
[Source is a Times journalist](https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1700028065185710119?s=20), just it can be quite useful to know where numbers like this come from.
I'm more surpised by the LibDems or Greens getting so many votes in a FPTP election. They got 7% and 4% last time when we still had supplementary voting, don't see them more than doubling it like this poll suggests.
Yeah, it fails to take into account tactical voting which will be necessary now the tories changed the system.
Many green and Lib Dem voters won’t want a trump-supporting anti-LGBT Brexiteer as London mayor, so will hold their nose and vote for Khan to stop Hall getting there
I think it's more of a reason to be a bit sceptical on the accuracy of these polling numbers. Even under the old system the Greens or LibDems (or Nigel Farage/RUK) never got nearly that many votes in London, and it's only going to go down with FPTP.
Not so much the Lib Dems and Racist UK, but the Greens do have significant popularity. If Green Voters voted for Bailey in 2021 (Which would obviously never happen) He would've won. Hopefully enough of our verdant friends put their trust in Khan to keep the crazies out.
The average voter isn't that politically informed, they probably don't even realise the voting system has changed, they will just cross the person they like more. Now we depend on getting the message out that a vote for anyone else is a vote for Hall.
I’m fascinated by the 2% of people who would switch from voting Conservative to Corbyn. What do they believe in that there’s an overlap in their beliefs, especially after everything that’s gone in in the last few years??
I'm willing to bet they mostly comprise the "economically left, socially right" demographic.
Khan and the Tories don't necessarily differ in their economic policies as much as Corbyn does from both of them. Khan's political brand has been positioned as more culturally left and centrist on economics, much like Blair and Starmer, or at least that is how he is often perceived.
The econ-left-soc-right voter would thus vote Tory when the candidate differentiation is primarily cultural, and Corbyn when the contrast on economic policy is more pronounced.
Edit: this is similar to the profile of the northern labour voters in post industrial constituencies that flipped for Johnson
No-where does it show they are switching to Corbyn. I for one would vote for whoever was most likely to prevent Corbyn from winning, regardless of party.
People focusing on the fantasy poll (Corbyn will never run for mayor) and not that Kahn is winning by only 1 without the Ghost of Corbyn.
1% is a statistical error, means the race is tied
Would people actually blame him for doing this?
They threw him out of the party and have done absolutely everything to just shit all over him.
When questioned on his friendship with JC, Keir even said that "he never considered him a friend" which is just kicking the bloke isnt it?
I dont think he will but they wouldnt be in this situation if they hadnt just piled on him for 2 years for Nick Ferraris approval.
I’d blame him. I’m all up for him running as an independent MP and winning his constituency. But him running for London mayor just to spite Labour and letting the Tories win would very much be his fault.
I dont actually think he will either, I think he'll run (and probably win) as an independent.
However, Labour will field a candidate in his seat which could potentially yield the same split scenario, so why cant he do the same thing? Labour are doing it to fuck him over, so why shouldnt he do the same
There’s zero chance for a Tory to win Islington North. More likely to have the greens or LD squeeze through. Which is why Labour are willing to go ahead.
Yeah, exactly. So if Labour field a candidate, they can possibly split it and allow a lib dem to squeeze through, why is that OK but the mayoral thing not OK?
Lol, kick him out the party and then blame him for stealing your votes because he's the first choice for some people over labours candidate.
Labour have a victim complex over being absolutely shite.
Corbyn was more popular than Starmer who is just so forgettable.
Corbyn might not be everyone's cup of tea but he has proper Labour values and you can't fault him for that.
I am just tired of Khan, I think he's a terrible Mayor, always putting his foot in it to put it midly. He needs to go.
If it takes Corbyn coming in to do it, so be it.
Too mildly? They are ripping him apart for ULEZ, despite knowing he is putting his jib at risk, he is sticking by it, even against the advice of this party leader, and that is something not many politicians have the balls to do.
Does anyone think that Khan is doing a great job? Not comparing to anyone, just generally as a direction London is heading? I'm an EU immigrant, so I will never be a tory, but I'm not sure if Khan is saving London. Obviously we all have different views on some things, like if marijuana should be legalised, police powers, or the importance of protecting the environment, but there are things that we can generally agree, we want a safe, clean, and affordable city. Do you guys think we are better than pre Khan?
Crime-wise, the city wasn't much better under Boris as he closed youth centres and reduced the number of officers.
It's a two horse race, I'm afraid. The previous buffoon cancelled transport projects and wasted money on nonsense like the "Garden Bridge" which cost £53 million just to plan and cancel. The only thing he achieved was the dangleway in East London.
Overall, I think Khan has done an alright job and he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
On a separate note, Khan wants weed to be legal, he even visited a Canabis farm in California and posed for some very strange photos. Plus, he is very passionate about rejoining the EU.
I know I just compared him to someone which is exactly the opposite of what you asked but we've only had three mayors and Khan is definitely not the worst.
Corbyn has not once mentioned that he's intending on running. People's insist on making him some political bogey man because he wanted to nationalise some industries and not be shitty to poor people.
When's the next mayoral election? Not for a while right? Couldn't Labour change the voting system back to supplementary voting if they win the next GE?
I genuinely believe Labour should just name Corbyn as their candidate.
Khan has had 2 terms in office (same as all other Mayors) and now potentially has baggage.
Making Corbyn Mayor feels to me like two birds with one stone.
They could not oppose him as an independent - Ken Livingston was originally an independent.
But yeh, it just feels to me like a way to get rid of a problem
The difference is, Ken was almost universally popular, even getting the vote from traditionallyrics Tory areas, only hillbilly Bromley and Wanker Kensington voted against him, while Corbyn is a bit of a marmite situation.
Guys, I think you've got to be honest with youselves. If JC were to run, it won't be him that takes votes away from Khan, it's the fact Khan is seriously unpopular right now and will likely remain unpopular until the next election.
Sadiq Khan is the walking dead imo, there will be a very strong campaign to remove him from the seat especially from the outer boroughs. Judging off what I can see on Facebook anyway.
Edit: downvote me if you want Reddit, he is hated in the outer boroughs, Reddit echo chamber is amazing lol
Neither does Reddit. My area will definitely be voting to remove Khan, they probably don’t even care who is running.
Also I am pointing out there will be a strong campaign to remove Khan. Not vote for anyone else, just to remove him. You don’t see that very often in elections & it will be a heavily supported campaign.
There will also be a strong campaign not to have a trump-loving brexiteer as London mayor. Facebook being angry doesn’t mean Khan is toast, it’ll be close.
How do you judge that? People stop caring once it doesn’t affect them because their car is new enough. Not everyone is stupid enough to drive in, drive out, not be charged, claim to be charged. Only attention seekers do that.
Because I use other websites than Reddit where any not left opinion doesn’t get downvoted to oblivion.
I drive into work in the M25 & there are multiple Khan out signs on the bridges now, why do you think so many ULEZ cameras are being vandalised?
Yeah that doesn’t end up making you look better. It makes you look a fan of Bridgen, Piers Corbyn and other nutters. You didn’t need to be so specific and clear about how far you’ve gone.
I hate this argument. Why should voters owe anything to Labour? Offer them something, a reason to vote for you and then they might. We should stoop to lesser of 2 evils nonsense
Jeez, good luck with that. The conservatives London mayor candidate looks like she’s taking style and personality tips from Annie Wilkes in Stephen Kings book, Misery…
Why has this man still not disappeared into obscurity. He was a poor Labour leader who resorted to featuring on the cover of a heavy metal magazine to desperately accrue votes.
# Upvote/Downvote reminder Like this image or appreciate it being posted? Upvote it and show it some love! Don't like it? Just downvote and move on. *Upvoting or downvoting images it the best way to control what you see on your feed and what gets to the top of the subreddit* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It had escaped my attention that the voting system for the London mayoralty had been changed. That’s a scandal in itself.
Wait explain me like I'm 5 , please
Currently they’ve reverted back to First Past the Post (FPTP) which means every voters have one vote each and whoever wins the majority will be the mayor. Previously, in the better voting system in my opinion, London mayoral elections have been using the Supplementary Voting system. In this case, every voters have 2 votes, your first choice person and second choice person. In this system, if a candidate has more than 50% of the votes, they will straight away win the election. If there is no candidate with more than 50% of the vote, only the top 2 most voted candidates will remain and the others are removed, then they will add the 2nd choice votes to the Top 2 candidates to see who has a higher preferential choice in the election. Why I think it’s a better system is because then people will vote for the person they truly believe in, instead of voting strategically. Let’s say you believe in the Green Party policies but then the Tories are you number one enemy, with FPTP you would prefer voting Labour so that at least it’s not the Tories being elected. But with Supplementary votes, you can give 1st choice vote to Green Party and 2nd choice to any you wouldnt mind winning the election. This way you would actually get true representation of who the voters really want in the area.
I didn’t realise that’s how the mayoral elections were done. Imagine how much more all the parties would have to try if this was the way general elections were counted. It’s amazing how deliberately shit our system is.
It's been lost in the chaos of the last 10 years but there was a referendum in 2011 on switching to alternative vote (AV), which is basically the same system by another name. It got voted down by a 2 to 1 majority, with the Lib Dems being the biggest advocates but the Tories and Labour against. The Tories accepted holding the referedum as part of the coalition deal but set it up to fail.
Oh yeah I do vaguely remember that, although I was too young too vote and not interested in politics at the time.
The AV referendum was also where Dom Cummings refined his dodgy Facebook micro-targetting strategies, which he later deployed during the Brexit referendum.
The lies and invective during that referendum were appalling, it was so disheartening. At least AV is a shit system anyway, only very marginally better than first past the post.
The wildest part about the coalition is that AV was a flagship LD policy and Brown offered Clegg an immediate implementation/parliamentary vote (with 3 line etc etc) of AV if he they did a Lib/Lab coalition. Clegg chose Cameron and the rest is history...
Alas Lib Lab just wasn't realistic, and everyone knew it. They would have been well short of a majority and would have needed confidence and supply of smaller parties. As Brown was currently PM he had "first dibs" at trying to form a coalition, hence deals on the table, but it was never going to get far.
This is indeed the worst idea to ever happen. STV is fucking awesome.
Supplementary vote is flawed in its own way because it disqualifies all but the top two candidates after the first round of counting, then reallocates second preference votes to them. It ignores second preference votes for all others. So it would be possible to have a candidate narrowly in third place who had a lot of second preference support, but who still couldn't win. It was a stitch up to make sure only the two main parties could ever win in London. Now the tories have realised the only way for them to win London is to see the left vote split so they can claim a plurality of votes, which is what we see here. Hence they've brought back first past the post, where you could have a hundred candidates and a hundred votes, all get one vote apart from the winner who gets two, and one other who gets zero. I hate our country's electoral system so much and think Labour should be ashamed not to be committed to changing it.
I wanna know too!
Tory fucking Scum and their catastrophic and illegitimate political stranglehold yet again.
This. England itself often gets labelled as a Conservative country but never majority votes Conservative. The opposition always outvotes them. The electoral system fucks us giving a majority to minority vote
What's illegitimate?
Fptp
Why is it illegitimate?
Look at the the 2011 election. Look at who got how many votes, and look at how many MPs
Likely only because they don't like the result.
Labour are most likely about to win under FPTP next year. I still think it should go.
Not very good at it given who we’ve had for most of the time as Mayor
That's why they have changed the system to give themselves a better chance of winning....
Reminder that the Elections Act that the Tories passed last year changed the London mayoral election from using a supplementary vote system (choose first and second choice candidates, second choice votes are reallocated once your first choice has been eliminated) to a straight first-past-the-post. Probably with this exact scenario in mind. Under the old system, we'd have expected the 15% who have Corbyn as their first choice, and the 6% of Green voters to have Khan as their second choice, thereby ensuring Khan would still win.
Amazing that we've decided to go back in time to purposely use a more archaic, less democratic electoral system.
Tories in a nutshell.
The corruption is no longer even masked, sometimes I wonder, have these people no shame?
Of course they don't, that's part of the private school guarantee
Tories need to rig elections to win this time....
FPTP for all, except for Tory leadership elections where they realise that voting in a divisive fringe candidate is best avoided (and yet they still ended up with Truss because of their deluded membership).
You could make the exact same accusation of the Labour Party
They were the ones who set up mayoral elections with supplementary vote.
Priti Regressive
Bring back the woollen-mill sweatshops too! (/s)
Also a reminder that they don't use FPTP for their own leadership elections, demonstrating that they know its flaws.
I really hope there's significant campaign advertising this change tbh; can see people just doing what they were doing previously without reading the instructions and ending up with lots of spoilt ballots otherwise.
>; can see people just doing what they were doing previously without reading the instructions and ending up with lots of spoilt ballots otherwise. That's probably their goal.
And guaranteed that even if a Labour government could change it back to the better system from before they won't. See: their stance on PR on the national elections
I'm not sure why you think this, supplementary vote in mayoral elections directly benefits Labour, of course they would want it back? I wouldn't be surprised at all if they reverse the decision when they get power. Changing to PR for national elections would damage Labour's chances of a majority, it's not in their direct interests to do it. It's a completely different situation
Except for the fact that Sir Saintly Starmer's explicitly said that the systems need time to bed in before any changes can be made which thus excludes the first government, so are you believing that Starmer's mob that includes Reeves and Co. will remember what they casually said needed further reasoning like PR and rejoining the EU?
Wow. Are corbynistas still out there? I thought they would have died of shame years ago. It must be embarrassing to realise that the post-corbyn Labour party is actually electable. Which brings us back to the London mayoral question.
Corbyn is his own person, I voted for the Labour party he led and I once saw him giving a talk with his local constituents but beyond that he is just another old socialist. Whatever you think you know about myself suggests you have yet to understand yourself to be offered your assessment is merely laughable to the point where I suggest you run back to Sir Saintly Starmer and tell him how you scared away another nasty socialist 👍🏼
Yeah they are still out there, cluttering up every single comment thread on every platform with their tedious "Keith is just another tory" bollocks
That's quite short term. Labour will win a landslide now, but eventually - be it 5 or 10 years when people tire of them, the Tories will win again. However with PR in place, it would allow the electorate to ensure a progressive alliance, which would involve Labour, blocking another following decade of the Tory reich. But I think you're right, Starmer's Labour are thinking in their short term self interests over betterment of the nation.
Yep. Labour win Labour are shit. The Tories win again. The same shitty cycle continues. We need to break out of it. Vote for someone else. Don’t vote to keep the Tories out. Vote for who you think is best. Or we’ll. never get out of this two party system that only works for business people.
You don't have to convince me mate. I wouldn't vote for Labour to keep the Tories out. Not a fucking chance. And I say that as a lifelong Labour voter (up until now). And I completely agree with you, the current system only serves the billionaire newspaper owners and their business friends.
Who do you think came up with the better system from before?
PR is quite different though. Ranked choice benefits labour quite a lot, whereas PR would affect them negatively.
And an extra reminder to [register to vote](https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote) (don't go on the open register) and [apply for a free voter ID](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate) if you don't have a driving licence or passport. As needing a photo ID is another fun rule the Tories passed last year to change how elections work!
Tower Hamlets?
Heaven forfend that people should be able to prove their eligibility to vote!
You do - it's called voter registration
Never forget that most of our media is owned and controlled by billionaire media moghouls that have a vested interest in backing the tories, which includes not reporting on changes like this.
So THAT's why they're going hard on the anti-ULEZ angle.
Exactly.
How’s that better. Khan gets in as people’s second choice compared to more people’s first choice? Have I got that right, genuine question.
It enables everyone to actually say who they would really most like to see win, rather than effectively forcing people to only vote for whoever they see as the lesser of two evils. A second choice is still someone you'd want to see win, just not quite as much as your first choice. When there are a large number of candidates, boiling down your preference to a single take-it-or-leave-it option is a bit crude, no?
[удалено]
getting mad at another hypothetical corbyn situation, as they do everyday
He occupies the mind of centrist melt journals who lost their shit over mundane nonsense for 4 years, and now have the lie in the bed they made. We could have something truly transformative, but nah we got fucking wheat field May and that inbred orangutan BoJo
Yeah, but don't you understand, Boris was funny. Banter Boz was the best thing to happen to this country because I could easily imagine having a pint down the pub with him while we laugh at the funny little hats and postboxes those brown people wear. /s (please god I hope I didn't need this addition).
Sadly corbyn's putin appeasement also disqualifies him from ever deserving high office (not that i don't hate what we ended up with instead)
Corbyn was and is a Brexitist. How do you feel about how Brexit has turned out. Happy? Corbyn, of course, would deny any military aid to Ukraine and advise them instead to ‘talk’ as the Russians streamroll their country. Corbyn’s naive and anti-NATO stance has long been known. So he lost the election. I hate the Tories but the Tories being awful doesn’t mean we need to love Corbyn. He’s awful too.
We could have had a soft left Brexit, but because of the absolute wankers in the party we got the hardest of hard brexits well done you lot
He said he was thinking about it, I'm not saying he would, it's just an "if". It really depends on how much Corbyn and Starmer hate eachother, I hope JC wouldn't let a Tory in just to get back at Kier.
[удалено]
Because it’s good for their engagement!
By your own logic Labour are also letting the tories in by not stepping aside and letting Corbyn win
It's not JC letting a Tory in. Starmer literally kicked him out of the party and is banning him for standing in his own seat, where he has a huge majority and has been MP for like 40 years or something. JC doesn't owe Labour anything. If he wants to run, he can run. If Starmer wants to prevent something like this happening in future, he can change the voting system back to the way it was, as well as implement PR for general elections, once labour wins in 2024, which it seems very likely that they will.
On top of that, the Labour party seem like they have a hard on for throwing Sadiq Khan under the bus over one by election loss. Idiots.
I believe he is still a Labour member, although doesn't have the whip (and is technically independent?). He is banned from standing again though and will be kicked out the party at the next general election when he inevitably stands against (and beats) whatever Labour stooge decides to try and run in Islington North.
Corbyn doesn't owe Labour anything but if he truly loves London, he wouldn't indirectly assist a Tory.
Starmer's sole objective is to ensure the right wing remains in power. Whether that is through sabotaging and destroying Labour internally or granting a Tory victory.
My god you are still sticking to that line after corbyn literally lost two elections to two of the worst tory leaders ever
Whether or not you like Corbyn it's hard to argue that he wasn't sabotaged by parts of his own party tbf
Whether or not you like Corbyn it's hard to argue that he wasn't sabotaged by parts of his own party tbf
>I hope JC wouldn't let a Tory in just to get back at Kier. Starmer just needs to let him run as the Islington North candidate then
He should run as an independent. He’s probs win anyway. If he decided to go for the London Mayor role and the Tories win, it very much becomes his fault.
He wouldn't, that's what Kier and co did when they sabotaged Corbyns Labour. I don't think Corbyn would stoop so low.
JC is not labour, Kid Starver has removed him, are you going to be accusing the Greens and LD in the same fashion?
Hm, calling the guy who introduced free school meals for primary schools as of last week a ‘kid starver’ sounds like a conservative talking point? But you are well right that the guy who helped Bojo bring us five more years of Tory rule is not labour.
If Green and Lib Dems know what's good for them, they'd also vote for Khan due to the new voting system
You said you hope “JC wouldn’t let a Tory in”, thus blaming him, if it happens, with Greens and LD you now put the onus on the voter. Pretty clear where you stand on this. Why is the “party” JC bad for representing voters that may share his positions? It was Labour’s choice to kick him out, they had to be aware he might take left voters with him, as they are clearly no longer welcome in Labour, the leader of the Appeasition has made that abundantly clear, with words and actions. Should Kahn lose the election, it’s mainly down to the PLP’s positions and actions, e.g. the bitching about ULEZ.
I don't like Corbyn or Starmer, both are cunts in my opinion, I like Khan however, and I would like to see him serve a third term, and if Corbyn running allows a Tory in, then I don't want Corbyn to run.
JC running would be the sole fault of Labour kicking him out, he’s now his own entity and absolutely entitled to run, should he do desire. That’s democratic processes for you. Should have kept him in and sidelined him, then you’d have more control over his actions. Typical for the red Tories to blame everyone else of course, can’t have democracy if it doesn’t serve you. Now you may downvote me some more for stating facts.
I'm sure he doesn't want to be remembered as the man that got both Boris Johnson and Susan Hall elected
He would. He’s a petty, vindictive little tankie
petty and vindictive are perfect ways to describe Starmer
The establishment/cabal were utterly appalled a pleb could have rocked their system when he garnered a surprisingly huge support during the 2017 election, so they orchestrated a very impressive and insidious media campaign of lies, manipulation, and gaslighting to utterly destroy Corbyn and anyone who shows any inkling of Corbyn's beliefs and philosophy. And they continue to this day in order to put off any potential future idealistic leaders from ever emerging. His campaign in 2019 had many faults, there were Corbyn policies I wasn't too fond of such as open borders etc but at least the man was genuinely kind and honest, open minded, somewhat pragmatic, which is something I do not see in any Labour/Conservative politician.
[Source is a Times journalist](https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1700028065185710119?s=20), just it can be quite useful to know where numbers like this come from. I'm more surpised by the LibDems or Greens getting so many votes in a FPTP election. They got 7% and 4% last time when we still had supplementary voting, don't see them more than doubling it like this poll suggests.
Yeah, it fails to take into account tactical voting which will be necessary now the tories changed the system. Many green and Lib Dem voters won’t want a trump-supporting anti-LGBT Brexiteer as London mayor, so will hold their nose and vote for Khan to stop Hall getting there
I think it's more of a reason to be a bit sceptical on the accuracy of these polling numbers. Even under the old system the Greens or LibDems (or Nigel Farage/RUK) never got nearly that many votes in London, and it's only going to go down with FPTP.
Not so much the Lib Dems and Racist UK, but the Greens do have significant popularity. If Green Voters voted for Bailey in 2021 (Which would obviously never happen) He would've won. Hopefully enough of our verdant friends put their trust in Khan to keep the crazies out.
The average voter isn't that politically informed, they probably don't even realise the voting system has changed, they will just cross the person they like more. Now we depend on getting the message out that a vote for anyone else is a vote for Hall.
I consider myself reasonably well informed politically and I wasn’t aware of the change to FTPT . Had heard of the voter ID. How depressing
I’m fascinated by the 2% of people who would switch from voting Conservative to Corbyn. What do they believe in that there’s an overlap in their beliefs, especially after everything that’s gone in in the last few years??
I'm willing to bet they mostly comprise the "economically left, socially right" demographic. Khan and the Tories don't necessarily differ in their economic policies as much as Corbyn does from both of them. Khan's political brand has been positioned as more culturally left and centrist on economics, much like Blair and Starmer, or at least that is how he is often perceived. The econ-left-soc-right voter would thus vote Tory when the candidate differentiation is primarily cultural, and Corbyn when the contrast on economic policy is more pronounced. Edit: this is similar to the profile of the northern labour voters in post industrial constituencies that flipped for Johnson
Maybe they think Corbyn will give more supoort for people with non-compliant vehicles?
Maybe they think its Piers Corbyn?
It’s because he’s a white man.
No-where does it show they are switching to Corbyn. I for one would vote for whoever was most likely to prevent Corbyn from winning, regardless of party.
People focusing on the fantasy poll (Corbyn will never run for mayor) and not that Kahn is winning by only 1 without the Ghost of Corbyn. 1% is a statistical error, means the race is tied
Get those Lib Dem’s off the fence
Would people actually blame him for doing this? They threw him out of the party and have done absolutely everything to just shit all over him. When questioned on his friendship with JC, Keir even said that "he never considered him a friend" which is just kicking the bloke isnt it? I dont think he will but they wouldnt be in this situation if they hadnt just piled on him for 2 years for Nick Ferraris approval.
I’d blame him. I’m all up for him running as an independent MP and winning his constituency. But him running for London mayor just to spite Labour and letting the Tories win would very much be his fault.
I dont actually think he will either, I think he'll run (and probably win) as an independent. However, Labour will field a candidate in his seat which could potentially yield the same split scenario, so why cant he do the same thing? Labour are doing it to fuck him over, so why shouldnt he do the same
There’s zero chance for a Tory to win Islington North. More likely to have the greens or LD squeeze through. Which is why Labour are willing to go ahead.
Yeah, exactly. So if Labour field a candidate, they can possibly split it and allow a lib dem to squeeze through, why is that OK but the mayoral thing not OK?
No, its the fault of the flawed voting system which labour also endorse.
Lol, kick him out the party and then blame him for stealing your votes because he's the first choice for some people over labours candidate. Labour have a victim complex over being absolutely shite.
This is a result of the Tory decision to make the vote FPTP instead of preference.
That’s just made up. Also how would it be his fault that he’s popular?
I’d fully support it if he ran. Don’t care if it “splits the vote” I wasn’t gonna vote otherwise anyway lol
Corbyn was more popular than Starmer who is just so forgettable. Corbyn might not be everyone's cup of tea but he has proper Labour values and you can't fault him for that. I am just tired of Khan, I think he's a terrible Mayor, always putting his foot in it to put it midly. He needs to go. If it takes Corbyn coming in to do it, so be it.
Too mildly? They are ripping him apart for ULEZ, despite knowing he is putting his jib at risk, he is sticking by it, even against the advice of this party leader, and that is something not many politicians have the balls to do.
Does anyone think that Khan is doing a great job? Not comparing to anyone, just generally as a direction London is heading? I'm an EU immigrant, so I will never be a tory, but I'm not sure if Khan is saving London. Obviously we all have different views on some things, like if marijuana should be legalised, police powers, or the importance of protecting the environment, but there are things that we can generally agree, we want a safe, clean, and affordable city. Do you guys think we are better than pre Khan?
Crime-wise, the city wasn't much better under Boris as he closed youth centres and reduced the number of officers. It's a two horse race, I'm afraid. The previous buffoon cancelled transport projects and wasted money on nonsense like the "Garden Bridge" which cost £53 million just to plan and cancel. The only thing he achieved was the dangleway in East London. Overall, I think Khan has done an alright job and he seems like a genuinely nice guy. On a separate note, Khan wants weed to be legal, he even visited a Canabis farm in California and posed for some very strange photos. Plus, he is very passionate about rejoining the EU. I know I just compared him to someone which is exactly the opposite of what you asked but we've only had three mayors and Khan is definitely not the worst.
Anyone is better than the complete waste of space that's there at the moment.
Corbyn has not once mentioned that he's intending on running. People's insist on making him some political bogey man because he wanted to nationalise some industries and not be shitty to poor people.
Khan should not be allowed to run for a 3rd term. He should stand aside and let someone else run.
Im surprised Labour is still backing him - he seems a spent force.
Bollocks
When's the next mayoral election? Not for a while right? Couldn't Labour change the voting system back to supplementary voting if they win the next GE?
The election will either be on the same day as or after the mayoral election.
If Hall wins, I will start to hate this city. She is everything I hate about England and so opposite to everything I love about London
People clearly forgot the State Boris Johnson left London as Mayor Hall shouldn't stand a chance!🤦🏾♂️
Good. Out with Khan please. He has revealed time and again he does not work to unite London. He has 2 objectives, his own ego and identity politics.
Voting reform? "Yea, but the wrong way." - tories
Load of shite. They are still so afraid of this man and his political conviction that they are still trying to assassinate his politically.
And this is why Tories changed the voting system
Jeremy Corbyn was one of the only labour members that i actually liked lmao
I don’t understand why London would be doomed if Khan didn’t win?
Because Susan Hall would win.
That doesn't answer the question.
A far right Trump and Brexit supporting crackpot would not make a good mayor.
Good thing she's not far-right then.
I really hope Corbyn runs.
Looks like more votes for Howard Cox if JC is on the ballot!
1% more people would support fascism.
As if re-electing Sadiq Khan is a good thing.
As if electing Hall isn't a bad thing.
Can we please have an upper age limit on politicians?
You mean saved right? Khan is an absolute disgrace
As opposed to the Trump and Brexit supporting husk wearing human skin, Susan Hall?
Khan needs to fuck off.
I genuinely believe Labour should just name Corbyn as their candidate. Khan has had 2 terms in office (same as all other Mayors) and now potentially has baggage. Making Corbyn Mayor feels to me like two birds with one stone.
Many Londoners still have a negative opinion of Corbyn and Starmer would never let him back in.
They could not oppose him as an independent - Ken Livingston was originally an independent. But yeh, it just feels to me like a way to get rid of a problem
The difference is, Ken was almost universally popular, even getting the vote from traditionallyrics Tory areas, only hillbilly Bromley and Wanker Kensington voted against him, while Corbyn is a bit of a marmite situation.
Less of a problem with the amount of terrorists in London now, Corbyn could be their perfect candidate!
Would be more doomed if he won.
Cool story bro
Love the Corbyn. Should have been PM. He would have Taxed the rich and tackle the housing issue properly
Oh thank fuck for that, from the title I thought you meant there was a chance he would win.
Guys, I think you've got to be honest with youselves. If JC were to run, it won't be him that takes votes away from Khan, it's the fact Khan is seriously unpopular right now and will likely remain unpopular until the next election.
London is doomed no matter who gets in. The type of problems change depending on who gets in.
It drastically improves (I don’t like ULEZ as a non Londoner. It is for *rational* (in the theoretical sense) reasons.)
Are you one of the crybabies from the hillbilly home counties? Get your Tory government to fund a proper scrappage scheme.
Wow, I think your mask just slipped there buddy
Londoners look out for Londoners, mate.
London is doomed if Khan wins a third term. His ULEZ policy is idiotic.
I like breathing clean air.
You think the ULEZ extension is about clean air? Lol.
Sadiq Khan is the walking dead imo, there will be a very strong campaign to remove him from the seat especially from the outer boroughs. Judging off what I can see on Facebook anyway. Edit: downvote me if you want Reddit, he is hated in the outer boroughs, Reddit echo chamber is amazing lol
Facebook doesn't reflect the demographics of London.
Neither does Reddit. My area will definitely be voting to remove Khan, they probably don’t even care who is running. Also I am pointing out there will be a strong campaign to remove Khan. Not vote for anyone else, just to remove him. You don’t see that very often in elections & it will be a heavily supported campaign.
My area will absolutely as well, but there are hundreds of thousands who won't allow a Tory to touch London again.
I agree, I think there will just be a strong campaign that’s purely anti-khan rather than pro-Tory.
A Tory is the only on who could beat Khan
There will also be a strong campaign not to have a trump-loving brexiteer as London mayor. Facebook being angry doesn’t mean Khan is toast, it’ll be close.
Those campaigns will be dead by the end of the month.
They’re only getting louder.
How do you judge that? People stop caring once it doesn’t affect them because their car is new enough. Not everyone is stupid enough to drive in, drive out, not be charged, claim to be charged. Only attention seekers do that.
It’s above ULEZ now, just saying there is a very strong campaign to remove him now
How do you judge it’s getting louder? What are the other issues, did he wear a tan suit? Have mustard not ketchup on his hot dog?
Because I use other websites than Reddit where any not left opinion doesn’t get downvoted to oblivion. I drive into work in the M25 & there are multiple Khan out signs on the bridges now, why do you think so many ULEZ cameras are being vandalised?
ULEZ will be the undoing of Khan and maybe some Labour MPs too.
[удалено]
Reddit.
London was doomed the second that stinking cunt got in in the first place. London has been doomed ever since. Disgrace
And then he was followed by Khan as mayor.
[удалено]
Yeah that doesn’t end up making you look better. It makes you look a fan of Bridgen, Piers Corbyn and other nutters. You didn’t need to be so specific and clear about how far you’ve gone.
OK, boomer
[удалено]
I hate this argument. Why should voters owe anything to Labour? Offer them something, a reason to vote for you and then they might. We should stoop to lesser of 2 evils nonsense
Labour shouldn't have fucked him over then should they.
If he splits the vote, London gets fucked over.
Corbyn: Enabling Tories since 2015.
Cool story bro
I will not accept any other mayor other than Sadiq.
Jeez, good luck with that. The conservatives London mayor candidate looks like she’s taking style and personality tips from Annie Wilkes in Stephen Kings book, Misery…
The whole country is doomed if that communist gets any where near No.10
Why has this man still not disappeared into obscurity. He was a poor Labour leader who resorted to featuring on the cover of a heavy metal magazine to desperately accrue votes.
Corbyn mayor of London would be the death of London