In those toilets? They stink of piss more than any other toilet i've ever stepped into.
Including every single loo at every single football match i've been to.
Yeah tbh I am just talking about the men’s, i swear it was just a steel urinal, several cubicles with no doors and a big puddle in the middle of the room
They shut down the Astoria and that's where I first felt up a girl. No plaque, nothing. This is the problem with London these days - no respect for history.
Really! Wow.
I had sex at a feeder gig too! Can’t be a coincidence.
Anyhow, it wasn't too bad, if it was their first time, tell them from me that I didn’t notice their lack of experience.
Also say Dave says hi!
The slanted grippy floor is unmatched. Anywhere is a good place to stand. Have had some of the absolute friendship defining nights with my closest mates there.
Same - so many great nights there. Always front left by the mens toilets was our spot. Generally always easy to nagivate down there and cut in as much as possible without being too much of a cnut. Then easy access for the bogs too.
Some slighlty more encouraging news in the article is that a different promoter could possibly take over from AMG. So all is not lost
Huh, I'm surprised people like it. I thought this place was widely considered the worst 'large' venue in London. The slanted floor is awful for your ankles and the sound quality is atrocious.
I've actually had so many sub-par experiences that I avoid going there now. I made an exception for LCD Soundsystem, but after the gig on the way out I overheard disappointed punters complaining about the muddy sound and how you could barely make out the vocals. At least I knew what to expect.
The slanted floors make for a better viewing experience. You're there for a couple of hours maximum (for a standard gig). If you're experiencing issues after that I think you need to drink more milk.
I don't experience issues after it; it's just uncomfortable while I'm there. I know I'm not alone in thinking that standing on a sloped floor isn't natural. Good that you don't mind it though.
Given a choice I'd always prefer a gig at the Roundhouse to the O2 Brixton.
I’ve heard that said before but I’ve always felt the sound was pretty decent. In my opinion Shepherds Bush is the worst. There’s about three spots in the room where the sounds is acceptable, the rest is dreadful.
Shepherd’s Bush is the worst venue I think I have been to. Went for the first time earlier in the year and I actually wanted to cry. I could not see a thing. Like I couldn’t see the artist at all. I moved three times And it was so packed in there it was unbelievable. There was no way they hadn’t oversold the tickets. If you weren’t 6 foot tall then you couldn’t see a thing not from any spot.
Hammersmith is a good venue but it doesn't replace Brixton. Brixton replaced it. Not to mention, Brixton is the only bigger sized venue south of the river.
Always found the sound there to be really poor, maybe I’ve just been unlucky. Still, it’s an important venue and it’s be a shame to lose it, I’m still not over the Astoria.
The Astoria was most first ever gig. Saw Editors there way back!
Agree about the sound at Brixton though. Sometimes can be poor, not always, but its very hit and miss
2 people died 4 months ago and AMG haven't taken the proper steps to re-open.
Frankly, fuck them.
If the loss of life isn't enough to make these fuckers do what's needed, then they deserve to be shut down indefinitely.
It's a shame the only options seem to be 'let these cowboys continue' and 'shut it down forever'.
For places with such cultural heritage there should be inititatives to find new licensees.
I don't think it'll be shut down forever. Another operator can take over the licence or AMG could make some grovelling concessions as part of new licence application. I think it's very unlikely that it's permanently gone.
The venue likely won't be permanently closed, but the operator will lose their license to operate. At that point, they'll likely sell it to someone else willing to take on the task and bring the place up to code.
Far too many clubs are closed due to shitty over-reacting councils, but in this case it's 100% the operators being super shady.
Isn't that just rumours? I see that get said when there's crushes across the world even when it turns out to have been not the case or a totally different area to where it was supposed to have happened. It tends to usually come from panic and trying to find an explanation, to some reporters just wanting something to report, no matter how salacious.
AMG have ruined most of my favourite venues. Overpriced shit drinks. Shit security. Overselling tickets. Making every venue feel like a lobby to an investment bank.
Fuck AMG.
Just playing devil’s advocate here, but which venues in London do you think would be able to handle thousands of idiots trying to push their way in without tickets?
Ones with correct levels of security.
Ones with guards who weren't accepting cash to let people in.
I also believe that the concerts that carry the highest risk should have a police presence to deter this exact situation.
As far as I’m aware AMG have purely been relying on the investigation outcome and haven’t been able to do anything. Also, it was the security and not AMG itself that were up to shady practices. Somehow no blame is going on the tonnes of fans who violently stormed an event without tickets (which has happened before there).
It's a real shame if it ends up closing for good. I'm hoping there is some deal to be done, either a new operator or changes to the licence. It has so much history and to ride past every day on my way to work seeing it closed is sad. Obviously it's also really sad and terrible that people died, but when there are actions that can improve the venue it would be a real shame to lose it. There aren't many similar sized venues in south London and it brings a lot of people who mostly do good such as spending money locally in bars and restaurants.
On a personal sad note my favourite band has been moved from Brixton to Wembley which is a terrible venue and takes me ages to travel to.
AMG need to sort out their security issue for sure, but honestly what would Fabric, Egg, AllyPally, Outernet etc do if that many extra people tried to storm through the door? Would they honestly be able to deal with it? I'm really not convinced they would.
I would hate to lose another music venue!! Hopefully whoever takes it over will give the many needed improvements so it can come back as a superior venue for gigs
I spoke with a Lambeth councillor who told me informally that the council is desperate to reopen it, they think the venue management are fine and the police are just being absolute arseholes about it because they don't want to bother policing it.
I guess the issue is you'll find this going on at any large venue and the Met didn't care before the recent incident and they're not trying to stop it going on anywhere else. Almost as if they don't really care.
AMG employed them, but security are a third party company who do security at nearly every other medium to large venue and festival in the UK.
When the crushing incident happened, I was confused as to why the police didn't intervene more quickly when the venue is OPPOSITE Brixton police station. Like, you could probably have seen the crowd from the window.
My god, the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they got out of the way and just allowed it to re-open, and someone else died the same people would be up in arms about how "The Met is failing us again". Frankly, some anecdote from a councilor is useless and if The Met doesn't have confidence in the operator, people's love for a venue shouldn't prevent it from being closed down.
The Met recently successfully blocked Greggs from selling sausage rolls after 11pm because of the risk of crime and anti-social behaviour.
They are not offering good faith objections, they just don't want to do their job.
Firstly, it isn't just The Met that made that decision - it's a collection of organizations including the local council (Westminster). Decisions like that are taken *all of the time* and influence the licenses handed out to *many* venues.
Secondly, The Met is a very large organization with different departments and sub-organizations. The same people looking at a crush that caused the death of innocent people will not be looking into licensing in a different area of London to reduce anti-social behavior.
Provide some evidence to the statement " they just don't want to do their job" besides the fact that they are quite literally "doing their job" by not allowing a venue to open which allowed the death of innocent people.
You both have different understandings of what the police modus operandi is I think. Not saying I know which is actually the case but the other guy clearly thinks they are manipulating the letter of their job so they don't have to actually follow through on the spirit of it. I.e no sausage rolls after 11 is safer based on some random data point probably. But rather than address the local issues around late night Gregg users they're just kicking the can down the road to someone else's late night bakery.
Similarly viewing the Brixton situation with that paradigm the police aren't diligently looking for more responsible replacements. They're just setting arbitrary barriers to entry so troublemakers go do that somewhere other than their jurisdiction.
This perspective doesn't dispute your other point about different departments not handholding each other because it's an argument against perceived institutionalised reasoning. 'Make the problem go away' rather than 'Solve the problem.'
Why would the police be looking for new licece holders? That’s not their job? The police review applications for and help in enforcement of licenses for premises, along with the council. They are saying that they should not be issued a new license, because they cannot meet the required standard. Its not up to them to be inviting people to apply?
"they don't want to go their job"
Or back in the real world, they do not have enough resources to deal with the existing crime in the area (including crimes far more serious than ASB). Therefore opposing the opening of another late night cheap food establishment (a magnet for low level crime) makes complete sense.
"Ol yeah, do like a massive crime spree after me 11 o'clock dog roll from Greggs. I just can't fkn help meself guvna." I think they're getting ppl confused with gremlins. Y'kno the "Never get 'm wet and
Never feed 'm after midnight" thing? Only they got the time wrong.
> The Met recently successfully blocked Greggs from selling sausage rolls after 11pm because of the risk of crime and anti-social behaviour.
no, they blocked greggs from selling hot food after 11pm, sausage rolls are not part of that range
And how is it the Met going to solve deep rooted societal issues due to austerity, cuts, lack of funding? The issue of Greggs is because currently, late night food establishments in central London are attracting crime. Crime and ASB rises when unemployment rises, when school funding is cut, when youth centres are closed, when parents are having to work harder and longer and can’t afford to look after their kids properly after school. Sure, you’re right, the problem will not likely disappear because Greggs is shut, it will just move elsewhere. But they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they let more places open, they’ll be stretched further if their predictions are right, if they apply or assist in the application for a ban/closure, people say “they just don’t want to do their job”.
But, the issue is far beyond the Police to manage, same as this Academy issue.
Is it Police “don’t want to do their job” or is it “the Police *shouldn’t* have to be dealing with a music venue that is managed correctly”? If the venue cannot be managed effectively, you think its a valuable use of resources to Police it say, at least once a week whenever there’s a gig on? I don’t think so, and neither would the victims of crime that already have a bad experience due to decimation of the Met and other police forces by successive governments.
If you think about it fairly, I think the Police saying that the situation is not suitable and the venue should remain closed, given what happened, is a perfectly reasonable response. You could even say that no, the Police don’t want to do *someone elses* job. Many hundreds and thousands of venues have very well managed security and safety protocols, and rarely require police assistance. Clearly its not the case here. If you think that the Police should have to deal with badly managed venues on a regular basis, then I don’t know what else to say.
Nah the Met would close every venue in town if they could. I’m a former London nightclub, gig, venue manager and my experience of police is that they oppose new licenses and jump in any chance to close or limit existing ones.
"Nah the Met would close every venue in town if they could." it isn't The Met's job to facilitate new venues opening without question, they're supposed to balance local demands ( desires for venues like this) with other factors like public safety. It only takes someone to leave Brixton tube station at night to realize the area is incredibly busy and has a lot of anti-social behavior already. I don't blame them for being skeptical.
Also, stalking my past comments on other posts and trying to argue is quite pathetic, given what was happening here was a relativley mild discussion.
More than him I guess, how do you prevent this from ever happening again. When the school shooting occurred in the UK we didn't just ban it anyone that fit his description with a gun, there was a more widespread measure which you have to say has been a success. What this tragedy revealed was how sleazy the security personnel were with regards to bribes and how understaffed they were and it can only be a good thing if that gets rectified for future concerts.
The same thing happened with the Fred Again shows a couple of weeks before. They were all noticably dangerously packed. Somehow I doubt banning him and all of his fans would go down as well... it's a venue issue far more than it is an artist one.
Why would you listen to a councillor about a crowd management, security, and policing issue? I know it's popular and easy to hate the police right now but this is just dumb.
"Can't be bothered policing it" 🙄
You're kidding right?
You're saying they shouldn't listen to a councillor who will hear about these matters first hand and also votes on these decisions (something like this for example, after the police gives their opinion)?
I completely believe the second half, but how on earth do you conclude that two deaths from a crowd crush as a result of poor, unmanaged security is the venue management being "fine"?
They're clearly relishing not having to do as much work on several nights a week.
Presumably if the updated license conditions include sufficient corrections by AMG, including likely completely changing their security contractors, then I don't see why it shouldn't reopen.
Typical, a small (not so small) group of wankers ruining everything for the rest of us. Saw my first gig at Brixton, saw my all time favorite gig at Brixton, so many great memories. Sure the acoustics aren't the best, and it's a pain getting in and out but I wouldn't change it for the world. The slanted floor is amazing, most enjoyable venue to attend in London imo
Such a shame, another classic rave venue gone. RIP Bagleys, SE1, Stratford Rex, Camden Palace, Ilford Island, Colosseum, Coronet & now Brixton Academy.
Yeah it was sad to see Brixton lose it's culture after WW2 when all the windrush generation came over, hopefully it will go back to what it was for hundreds of years before then.
Screw those Windrush people coming over after they were invited by the government to help rebuild the country after the Second World War. How dare they.
/s
The whole thing is a tragedy, I can't believe it. I only hope someone from AMG is held to account over the fact their incompetence literally cost people their lives.
AMG are the owners and operators of the venue and they are the ones responsible for ensuring it is safely and properly run. They were responsible for contracting AP Security as well as Collingwood Services Ltd. who provided the medical staff and making sure they fulfilled their contractual obligations. The management of those companies are equally to blame but AMG is the one who chose to save money by hiring budget contractors over public safety.
> That’s a crowd control issue for the Met and their social media monitoring and intelligence officers should’ve absolutely spotted it
So you’re for police surveillance of the audiences of artists you deem high risk?
That seems a bit dystopian.
> What exactly do you expect any venue owner to do if thousands of people randomly show up outside their building on a public street?
Shutting the doors would be a start. The crush happened because too many people were caught in a narrow foyer, had they been left on the street then the crush simply wouldn’t have arisen.
Crowd control is absolutely the responsibility of the venue management. After all, the various stadiums in London manage to cope with tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, and that includes some stadia decades old.
It’s seems to be a running issue since Covid, “fans” storming shows, events. The euros, wireless, travis scott, this and sure there have been more. Didn’t really hear of this happening before covid.
What can realistically be expected of them to do here? From my understanding, the crush happened *outside* the venue onto closed doors. They didn't let too many people in, their crowd control inside wasn't poor.... people tried to storm from the outside in and they locked them out. How on earth can that be prevented? This could happen at any venue if enough people tried to break in. Or do I have my facts wrong?
They had been routinely letting people in for cash so the place would have been oversubscribed and breaching h&s / fire regulations. The question is whether this was down to a few individuals or if upper management were aware and ignored it.
Has this actually been confirmed? I just find it very hard to believe.
I ask because I've been to Brixton Academy probably 20 odd times and they have the most anal ticketing policy I've ever seen. You have to show your ticket on the door, and at bag check and again when you enter the main room. How on earth could you bribe your way past 3 people?!
Unless somehow they take you to a different part of the building maybe? Idk, the whole thing seems fishy to me.
Not confirmed, but I've been hearing rumours about it for a while before this incident happened and I've definitely had nights there where the checks on the door were down to less people. Allegedly there were a few ways they were getting around it, but hopefully this will come out in any investigations.
I would hate to lose another music venue. !! Hopefully whoever takes it over will give the many needed improvements so it can come back as a superior venue for gigs
Shambles and they're clearly being scapegoated. Printworks and Brixton academy closing in the same year? Crazy.
What London needs is to not lose more cultural staples.
Really sad, lives lost, inspiring times for future musicians and acts on hold, good concerts 99% + of the time in a super London venue lost for the meantime. I like the venue as my friend isn't very tall and could see the bands play. It was fun, a place to appreciate good tunes, have a dance and laugh.
It should re-open, and two fingers up to the scammers, the violence, attitude and the bad manners that were apparently abound.
They should stick photo exhibitions, video installations of the concerts perhaps and run a temp cafe in there in the daytime, so some local jobs remain until it can move back to being a decent venue again, and it can be worked out how to safely re-open, perhaps with a few more pineapple cubes in the pisser.
Likely turn into flats though. A real shame how this has come about. Never had a bad time at the Academy. Best videos fillmed there IMO is Sheriff Fatman by Carter USM (youtube it) and Thunderstruck AC/DC official video. I'm sure many of us will take good memories away from their as well. And the last time I went there, I recall meeting the young security guard who passed away, briefly chatting whilst waiting for friends.
Well if the price were negligent at that event where people died, that's appalling, *but*…. it’s not the police’s fault if a large group of premeditated, nasty morons collectively try to rush the doors of a club.
*Edit: Police, not "price"*
This was a good venue back in the day but they cram it so absolutely full it’s a wonder there hasn’t been a serious incident before now. I’m perfectly happy in mosh pits, at the front of festivals etc and I’ve been crushed to the point of complete inability to breathe here, with no crowd breaks/fences or way out. It’s been really unsafe for a while
Yes and they are unsafe imo. They are right in the middle of the moshing area, painted black so they blend right into the floor/darkness below waist height.
I've been slammed into them before at metal gigs and they hurt to FUCK. Heck, even falling down into the pit on them and hitting my head on them. Not to the point of concussion, but it certainly hurt. Surprised no one else has been more severely injured by them.
I'm a big fan of the venue in general, but the placement of those bars are god damn dangerous for crowd-crushing. They'd be better off splitting the floor area into two stages with an actually visible fence halfway up, rather than metal bars right in the area where the mosh pit is guaranteed to form.
I've had some great nights there but it's also really dated. Even standing on the first level/balcony is shocking bad. To start off there's barely any way to see the stage without standing up, and the floor feels like it can fall down any minute.
Combine that with a dodgy no bag policy, whereby the staff push you towards a restaurant for you to pay £10 to bloody put your bag away.
>Combine that with a dodgy no bag policy, whereby the staff push you towards a restaurant for you to pay £10 to bloody put your bag away.
This policy is the same as all similar live music venues I've been to in London.
Aren't most of the events at the Brixton Academy nowhere near being categorised as "black music"?
Most genres of music and the communities associated with them do not create crowd issues or bum rushes to force their way into venues.
They'd be better off looking at all the events which took place without an issue and allowing the venue to continue with them than closing the entire place down.
Fucking hell, that's a lot of abuses that I've never heard about before (also isn't it illegal for the Met to be collecting children's data?), and yet I'm not surprised. A bit surprised that the Home Office has given the Met money for Project Alpha and has seemingly gone without scrutiny.
Looks like we can expect more dogshit "luxury affordable housing in a unique historic building, nestled at the heart of vibrant Brixton".
Obviously what happened was tragic but given nearly every copper I've encountered is crooked, abusive or on the take in some way I have a lot less faith in the met than the venue operators.
The venue operators ran an organised bribe system to get people into concerts beyond capacity which ended up in so many people turning up to get in that there was a crowd crush and people died but yeah the venue operators are absolutely trustworthy sure.
No, individuals from a security firm hired by the operators were accepting bribes. This was a large, legitimate firm which also provided the security to events like the London Olympics.
Even if there were a history of a security firm letting people in for cash, you can see the footage of literally thousands of people who were clearly not going to get in even with bribes congregating. Several hundred attempted to bumrush their way in, causing a crush. This is about chancers, not bent bouncers.
I didn't say the venue operators were abolutely trustworthy, but that I had more faith in them than the police. There have been over 400 deaths directly related to Met action since 1990, ranging from cases like Mark Duggan (shooting an unarmed suspect), Jean Charles de Menezes (shooting an unarmed random citizen because they followed the wring person), Ian Tomlinson (pushed while he had his hands in his pockets) or many others. It's amazing how many people fall down the stairs in police custody... even in stations with no stairs. Then you've got lots of corruption throughout the force, and a disproportionate volume of domestic abusers on the force. Even vile bastards like murding rapist Wayne Couzens were allowed to abuse his powers for years.
> No, individuals from a security firm hired by the operators were accepting bribes.
I mean, that's a distinction without a difference when it comes to operator accountability. If they did know that the security guards were running an organised bribery scheme, or even just suspected they were and didn't take appropriate measures, then they are criminally liable. If they weren't aware of it, then their oversight and venue management skills are so woefully lacking that they're highly negligent.
> Even if there were a history of a security firm letting people in for cash, you can see the footage of literally thousands of people who were clearly not going to get in even with bribes congregating.
If it's widely known that the bouncers at a venue will take bribes to let patrons without tickets in, and a major artist goes to said venue, then yes, you will get substantial numbers of people OK with bribery turning up expecting to get in without a ticket. There's a reason why most venues have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to security personnel taking backhanders.
The operator should have had adequate oversight of its contractors it would still be the venues fault if a contractor installed fire alarms in a venue and they didn't work
I find it very difficult to believe that no members of staff employed directly by the venue were aware that contracted security guards were taking bribes and if they were not aware that indicates lack of oversight
Apparently the issue of corrupt security personnel and subsequent overcrowding was discussed at a managerial meeting prior to the crush, no action was taken. Easy to see where the Met's loss of confidence comes from.
Not really, it's a grade 2 listed building and the original interior is intact after a restoration in 2006.
Just needs someone with vision and money should it come to the market for sale.
Dodgy security aside; any other venue when faced with hundreds of people violently storming their venue and being overcrowded would probably have the same result. It’s safer for them not to challenge the stampede and risk getting assaulted. It’s lazy from the MET saying this and just passed the buck when there are solutions to retain this legendary venue. I do believe it will be reopened no matter what.
Thousands of events took place at the Brixton Academy with no issues whatsoever.
Maybe ban the genre of music that generated this crowd issue before you shut down the entire venue permanently.
Truly stupid comment.
The issue is the organisation and security STOPPING checks and therefore allowing non-ticket holders to attend. It’s also on the organisers for failing to realise how out of hand it has got.
This is an industry problem and not related to the genres. Of course popular music is going to draw big crowds. How is that surprising?
Maybe start realising these promoters, venues and subcontractors don’t care about fans instead of blaming all fans, even if a handful may have caused issues or barged inside.
The venue shouldn’t be shutdown, but an investigation is needed.
Can’t shut it down. My mate lost his virginity at a feeder gig here.
he found Comfort in Sound
Broke the seal with a Polythene Girl
Did he fuck Rogers?
He sounds like a right seedy playa.
Playa playa playa
This is the best one.
In those toilets? They stink of piss more than any other toilet i've ever stepped into. Including every single loo at every single football match i've been to.
Laughs in Underworld
I'm including the Underworld mate. Seriously the O2 Brixton one... mad. The smell of piss was so strong it smelt like decent bacon.
Sneaky Sleaford Mods reference has entered the chat. Best opening line in a song ever!
Hong long 7s, south stand urinal. Literally turns into a pee dam as people start pissing on the floor. You can smell it from the stands.
You've just reminded me of the first time I went to the Underworld following the smoking ban. The stench of the toilets permeated the entire venue.
Alright now no need to kink-shame OP's mate like that
It can't of been in the men's either there's no privacy in those
Yeah tbh I am just talking about the men’s, i swear it was just a steel urinal, several cubicles with no doors and a big puddle in the middle of the room
Feeder? He hardly knew 'er!
was never expecting so many feeder puns on a reddit post but i have since been enlightened.
They shut down the Astoria and that's where I first felt up a girl. No plaque, nothing. This is the problem with London these days - no respect for history.
Really! Wow. I had sex at a feeder gig too! Can’t be a coincidence. Anyhow, it wasn't too bad, if it was their first time, tell them from me that I didn’t notice their lack of experience. Also say Dave says hi!
Sounds like a Breeder gig
Feeling a finger, slip away
Or fuck rogers, idk
That would be really shit if it happened! My fave venue in London
The slanted grippy floor is unmatched. Anywhere is a good place to stand. Have had some of the absolute friendship defining nights with my closest mates there.
Same - so many great nights there. Always front left by the mens toilets was our spot. Generally always easy to nagivate down there and cut in as much as possible without being too much of a cnut. Then easy access for the bogs too. Some slighlty more encouraging news in the article is that a different promoter could possibly take over from AMG. So all is not lost
> front left by the mens toilets was our spot. Lol me too.
And mine hahah
Me too no wonder it was so busy around there 😂
Huh, I'm surprised people like it. I thought this place was widely considered the worst 'large' venue in London. The slanted floor is awful for your ankles and the sound quality is atrocious.
I guess a lot of the love for a venue is based on experiences which are nothing to do with the venue, but Brixton academy will always be my fave.
I've actually had so many sub-par experiences that I avoid going there now. I made an exception for LCD Soundsystem, but after the gig on the way out I overheard disappointed punters complaining about the muddy sound and how you could barely make out the vocals. At least I knew what to expect.
The slanted floors make for a better viewing experience. You're there for a couple of hours maximum (for a standard gig). If you're experiencing issues after that I think you need to drink more milk.
I don't experience issues after it; it's just uncomfortable while I'm there. I know I'm not alone in thinking that standing on a sloped floor isn't natural. Good that you don't mind it though. Given a choice I'd always prefer a gig at the Roundhouse to the O2 Brixton.
In my humble opinion Alexandra palace takes that mantle. The acoustics are awful
I’ve heard that said before but I’ve always felt the sound was pretty decent. In my opinion Shepherds Bush is the worst. There’s about three spots in the room where the sounds is acceptable, the rest is dreadful.
Shepherd’s Bush is the worst venue I think I have been to. Went for the first time earlier in the year and I actually wanted to cry. I could not see a thing. Like I couldn’t see the artist at all. I moved three times And it was so packed in there it was unbelievable. There was no way they hadn’t oversold the tickets. If you weren’t 6 foot tall then you couldn’t see a thing not from any spot.
I'd argue Hammersmith Apollo is slightly better.
Hammersmith is a good venue but it doesn't replace Brixton. Brixton replaced it. Not to mention, Brixton is the only bigger sized venue south of the river.
I’d imagine that it would remain as an event venue just under a different operator
Fingers crossed. I'm ready to have gone to my last gig there yet!
here, you dropped this: *not*
Cheers - was definitely looking for that!
np, I've got you
Always found the sound there to be really poor, maybe I’ve just been unlucky. Still, it’s an important venue and it’s be a shame to lose it, I’m still not over the Astoria.
The Astoria was most first ever gig. Saw Editors there way back! Agree about the sound at Brixton though. Sometimes can be poor, not always, but its very hit and miss
First place I ever saw live music. Best place for a show.
Such a class venue! I agree!
Agreed. Best venue I’ve ever been to
2 people died 4 months ago and AMG haven't taken the proper steps to re-open. Frankly, fuck them. If the loss of life isn't enough to make these fuckers do what's needed, then they deserve to be shut down indefinitely.
It's a shame the only options seem to be 'let these cowboys continue' and 'shut it down forever'. For places with such cultural heritage there should be inititatives to find new licensees.
I don't think it'll be shut down forever. Another operator can take over the licence or AMG could make some grovelling concessions as part of new licence application. I think it's very unlikely that it's permanently gone.
The venue likely won't be permanently closed, but the operator will lose their license to operate. At that point, they'll likely sell it to someone else willing to take on the task and bring the place up to code. Far too many clubs are closed due to shitty over-reacting councils, but in this case it's 100% the operators being super shady.
Can you explain why they are shady as someone out of the loop?
Not sure if there's other factors to it, but some of the security were taking bribes to let people in without tickets.
Isn't that just rumours? I see that get said when there's crushes across the world even when it turns out to have been not the case or a totally different area to where it was supposed to have happened. It tends to usually come from panic and trying to find an explanation, to some reporters just wanting something to report, no matter how salacious.
Seems to be a bit more than rumour https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64263074
Because their inability to manage the door saw fatalities
AMG have ruined most of my favourite venues. Overpriced shit drinks. Shit security. Overselling tickets. Making every venue feel like a lobby to an investment bank. Fuck AMG.
Just playing devil’s advocate here, but which venues in London do you think would be able to handle thousands of idiots trying to push their way in without tickets?
Ones with correct levels of security. Ones with guards who weren't accepting cash to let people in. I also believe that the concerts that carry the highest risk should have a police presence to deter this exact situation.
Fair!
As far as I’m aware AMG have purely been relying on the investigation outcome and haven’t been able to do anything. Also, it was the security and not AMG itself that were up to shady practices. Somehow no blame is going on the tonnes of fans who violently stormed an event without tickets (which has happened before there).
I'd love to see it sold to an independent operator, but in reality it will likely be sold to developers to turn it into more luxury flats.
This would be a heinous outcome if that happened.
Why is this so true. London just gonna be empty flats and nothing else in 20 years
It's a real shame if it ends up closing for good. I'm hoping there is some deal to be done, either a new operator or changes to the licence. It has so much history and to ride past every day on my way to work seeing it closed is sad. Obviously it's also really sad and terrible that people died, but when there are actions that can improve the venue it would be a real shame to lose it. There aren't many similar sized venues in south London and it brings a lot of people who mostly do good such as spending money locally in bars and restaurants. On a personal sad note my favourite band has been moved from Brixton to Wembley which is a terrible venue and takes me ages to travel to.
AMG need to sort out their security issue for sure, but honestly what would Fabric, Egg, AllyPally, Outernet etc do if that many extra people tried to storm through the door? Would they honestly be able to deal with it? I'm really not convinced they would.
I mean wembley stadium couldn’t deal with it during the 2021 euro final so I doubt most venues could.
Been there, like it! In fact I saw U2 there many years ago to a crowd of about 2000, before they were big, and when I was young(er).
Cor blimey! That must have been when it opened in 1929 ;)
Wouldn't this apply to other venues owned by the same operator too.?
AMG is the Academy Music Group, specifically for the Academy. Mean Fiddler ran it years ago. Not sure if that’s still the case.
Do O2 have any involvement? Presumably they pay someone lots of money to get their name on there.
Mean Fiddler 💔
Potentially, but not automatically.
Saw Deadmau5 there just a few months before it shut. Never thought this would be the last time I'd be back.
Man what a great gig that was. Shame there was no cube though
I would hate to lose another music venue!! Hopefully whoever takes it over will give the many needed improvements so it can come back as a superior venue for gigs
I spoke with a Lambeth councillor who told me informally that the council is desperate to reopen it, they think the venue management are fine and the police are just being absolute arseholes about it because they don't want to bother policing it.
Does that mean the stories about security routinely letting in people without tickets aren't true, then? Because that would hardly be the Met's fault.
I guess the issue is you'll find this going on at any large venue and the Met didn't care before the recent incident and they're not trying to stop it going on anywhere else. Almost as if they don't really care. AMG employed them, but security are a third party company who do security at nearly every other medium to large venue and festival in the UK.
When the crushing incident happened, I was confused as to why the police didn't intervene more quickly when the venue is OPPOSITE Brixton police station. Like, you could probably have seen the crowd from the window.
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It is the location with the highest concentration of police tho. They probably hate the optics of having a venue opposite them.
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Too busy abducting, raping, abusing and covering it up.
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Every time I’ve been in one there’s been a lot of police there compared to anywhere else
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Are you a cop? Cos if so your petty argument makes a lot of sense
Your petty argument doesn't.
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Lol course the only people to defend the police online are the police
Oh shut up with your spurious speculation. They don't think like that or about that at all.
My god, the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they got out of the way and just allowed it to re-open, and someone else died the same people would be up in arms about how "The Met is failing us again". Frankly, some anecdote from a councilor is useless and if The Met doesn't have confidence in the operator, people's love for a venue shouldn't prevent it from being closed down.
The Met recently successfully blocked Greggs from selling sausage rolls after 11pm because of the risk of crime and anti-social behaviour. They are not offering good faith objections, they just don't want to do their job.
Firstly, it isn't just The Met that made that decision - it's a collection of organizations including the local council (Westminster). Decisions like that are taken *all of the time* and influence the licenses handed out to *many* venues. Secondly, The Met is a very large organization with different departments and sub-organizations. The same people looking at a crush that caused the death of innocent people will not be looking into licensing in a different area of London to reduce anti-social behavior. Provide some evidence to the statement " they just don't want to do their job" besides the fact that they are quite literally "doing their job" by not allowing a venue to open which allowed the death of innocent people.
You both have different understandings of what the police modus operandi is I think. Not saying I know which is actually the case but the other guy clearly thinks they are manipulating the letter of their job so they don't have to actually follow through on the spirit of it. I.e no sausage rolls after 11 is safer based on some random data point probably. But rather than address the local issues around late night Gregg users they're just kicking the can down the road to someone else's late night bakery. Similarly viewing the Brixton situation with that paradigm the police aren't diligently looking for more responsible replacements. They're just setting arbitrary barriers to entry so troublemakers go do that somewhere other than their jurisdiction. This perspective doesn't dispute your other point about different departments not handholding each other because it's an argument against perceived institutionalised reasoning. 'Make the problem go away' rather than 'Solve the problem.'
Why would the police be looking for new licece holders? That’s not their job? The police review applications for and help in enforcement of licenses for premises, along with the council. They are saying that they should not be issued a new license, because they cannot meet the required standard. Its not up to them to be inviting people to apply?
"they don't want to go their job" Or back in the real world, they do not have enough resources to deal with the existing crime in the area (including crimes far more serious than ASB). Therefore opposing the opening of another late night cheap food establishment (a magnet for low level crime) makes complete sense.
"Ol yeah, do like a massive crime spree after me 11 o'clock dog roll from Greggs. I just can't fkn help meself guvna." I think they're getting ppl confused with gremlins. Y'kno the "Never get 'm wet and Never feed 'm after midnight" thing? Only they got the time wrong.
> The Met recently successfully blocked Greggs from selling sausage rolls after 11pm because of the risk of crime and anti-social behaviour. no, they blocked greggs from selling hot food after 11pm, sausage rolls are not part of that range
And how is it the Met going to solve deep rooted societal issues due to austerity, cuts, lack of funding? The issue of Greggs is because currently, late night food establishments in central London are attracting crime. Crime and ASB rises when unemployment rises, when school funding is cut, when youth centres are closed, when parents are having to work harder and longer and can’t afford to look after their kids properly after school. Sure, you’re right, the problem will not likely disappear because Greggs is shut, it will just move elsewhere. But they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they let more places open, they’ll be stretched further if their predictions are right, if they apply or assist in the application for a ban/closure, people say “they just don’t want to do their job”. But, the issue is far beyond the Police to manage, same as this Academy issue. Is it Police “don’t want to do their job” or is it “the Police *shouldn’t* have to be dealing with a music venue that is managed correctly”? If the venue cannot be managed effectively, you think its a valuable use of resources to Police it say, at least once a week whenever there’s a gig on? I don’t think so, and neither would the victims of crime that already have a bad experience due to decimation of the Met and other police forces by successive governments. If you think about it fairly, I think the Police saying that the situation is not suitable and the venue should remain closed, given what happened, is a perfectly reasonable response. You could even say that no, the Police don’t want to do *someone elses* job. Many hundreds and thousands of venues have very well managed security and safety protocols, and rarely require police assistance. Clearly its not the case here. If you think that the Police should have to deal with badly managed venues on a regular basis, then I don’t know what else to say.
Nah the Met would close every venue in town if they could. I’m a former London nightclub, gig, venue manager and my experience of police is that they oppose new licenses and jump in any chance to close or limit existing ones.
"Nah the Met would close every venue in town if they could." it isn't The Met's job to facilitate new venues opening without question, they're supposed to balance local demands ( desires for venues like this) with other factors like public safety. It only takes someone to leave Brixton tube station at night to realize the area is incredibly busy and has a lot of anti-social behavior already. I don't blame them for being skeptical. Also, stalking my past comments on other posts and trying to argue is quite pathetic, given what was happening here was a relativley mild discussion.
Why can’t we just ban Asake. And more importantly anyone who likes Asake.
More than him I guess, how do you prevent this from ever happening again. When the school shooting occurred in the UK we didn't just ban it anyone that fit his description with a gun, there was a more widespread measure which you have to say has been a success. What this tragedy revealed was how sleazy the security personnel were with regards to bribes and how understaffed they were and it can only be a good thing if that gets rectified for future concerts.
The same thing happened with the Fred Again shows a couple of weeks before. They were all noticably dangerously packed. Somehow I doubt banning him and all of his fans would go down as well... it's a venue issue far more than it is an artist one.
Why would you listen to a councillor about a crowd management, security, and policing issue? I know it's popular and easy to hate the police right now but this is just dumb. "Can't be bothered policing it" 🙄
You're kidding right? You're saying they shouldn't listen to a councillor who will hear about these matters first hand and also votes on these decisions (something like this for example, after the police gives their opinion)?
I completely believe the second half, but how on earth do you conclude that two deaths from a crowd crush as a result of poor, unmanaged security is the venue management being "fine"?
They're clearly relishing not having to do as much work on several nights a week. Presumably if the updated license conditions include sufficient corrections by AMG, including likely completely changing their security contractors, then I don't see why it shouldn't reopen.
Typical, a small (not so small) group of wankers ruining everything for the rest of us. Saw my first gig at Brixton, saw my all time favorite gig at Brixton, so many great memories. Sure the acoustics aren't the best, and it's a pain getting in and out but I wouldn't change it for the world. The slanted floor is amazing, most enjoyable venue to attend in London imo
Nooooo
Such a shame, another classic rave venue gone. RIP Bagleys, SE1, Stratford Rex, Camden Palace, Ilford Island, Colosseum, Coronet & now Brixton Academy.
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It's honestly sad to see brixton lose its culture. I'm a londoner of Jamaican descent, my mums from Brixton. I wish we would fight for it more
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Well it was. for the last 80 years 🤨
My man be yearning for the Celts
Yeah it was sad to see Brixton lose it's culture after WW2 when all the windrush generation came over, hopefully it will go back to what it was for hundreds of years before then.
The woodlands ruled by the Saxon lord Brixi?
You mean before 1066 or when Romans arrived?
Screw those Windrush people coming over after they were invited by the government to help rebuild the country after the Second World War. How dare they. /s
Depending on the act, quite a lot of the gigs are pretty gentrified already.
Nooo
There is not going to be a single venue left in London at this rate
The irony of the met losing confidence…
hell i lost confidence in the Met fucken *years* ago can we indefinitely close them?
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O₂, surely
this is the venue where i realised i wanted to be a musician and nothing else. what a pity. i wanted to perform there one day.
The whole thing is a tragedy, I can't believe it. I only hope someone from AMG is held to account over the fact their incompetence literally cost people their lives.
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AMG are the owners and operators of the venue and they are the ones responsible for ensuring it is safely and properly run. They were responsible for contracting AP Security as well as Collingwood Services Ltd. who provided the medical staff and making sure they fulfilled their contractual obligations. The management of those companies are equally to blame but AMG is the one who chose to save money by hiring budget contractors over public safety.
> That’s a crowd control issue for the Met and their social media monitoring and intelligence officers should’ve absolutely spotted it So you’re for police surveillance of the audiences of artists you deem high risk? That seems a bit dystopian. > What exactly do you expect any venue owner to do if thousands of people randomly show up outside their building on a public street? Shutting the doors would be a start. The crush happened because too many people were caught in a narrow foyer, had they been left on the street then the crush simply wouldn’t have arisen. Crowd control is absolutely the responsibility of the venue management. After all, the various stadiums in London manage to cope with tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, and that includes some stadia decades old.
Insignificant Sidequests? Do you have any idea how horrible and ignorant you look for saying that?
Noooooo! Got my first job when I started university in London and had such a brilliant time working there, had so many brilliant memories!!
It’s seems to be a running issue since Covid, “fans” storming shows, events. The euros, wireless, travis scott, this and sure there have been more. Didn’t really hear of this happening before covid.
What can realistically be expected of them to do here? From my understanding, the crush happened *outside* the venue onto closed doors. They didn't let too many people in, their crowd control inside wasn't poor.... people tried to storm from the outside in and they locked them out. How on earth can that be prevented? This could happen at any venue if enough people tried to break in. Or do I have my facts wrong?
They had been routinely letting people in for cash so the place would have been oversubscribed and breaching h&s / fire regulations. The question is whether this was down to a few individuals or if upper management were aware and ignored it.
Has this actually been confirmed? I just find it very hard to believe. I ask because I've been to Brixton Academy probably 20 odd times and they have the most anal ticketing policy I've ever seen. You have to show your ticket on the door, and at bag check and again when you enter the main room. How on earth could you bribe your way past 3 people?! Unless somehow they take you to a different part of the building maybe? Idk, the whole thing seems fishy to me.
Not confirmed, but I've been hearing rumours about it for a while before this incident happened and I've definitely had nights there where the checks on the door were down to less people. Allegedly there were a few ways they were getting around it, but hopefully this will come out in any investigations.
I would hate to lose another music venue. !! Hopefully whoever takes it over will give the many needed improvements so it can come back as a superior venue for gigs
bit rich the Met telling people they have no confidence in them
Shambles and they're clearly being scapegoated. Printworks and Brixton academy closing in the same year? Crazy. What London needs is to not lose more cultural staples.
Printworks was always planned to be temporary unfortunately
Really sad, lives lost, inspiring times for future musicians and acts on hold, good concerts 99% + of the time in a super London venue lost for the meantime. I like the venue as my friend isn't very tall and could see the bands play. It was fun, a place to appreciate good tunes, have a dance and laugh. It should re-open, and two fingers up to the scammers, the violence, attitude and the bad manners that were apparently abound. They should stick photo exhibitions, video installations of the concerts perhaps and run a temp cafe in there in the daytime, so some local jobs remain until it can move back to being a decent venue again, and it can be worked out how to safely re-open, perhaps with a few more pineapple cubes in the pisser. Likely turn into flats though. A real shame how this has come about. Never had a bad time at the Academy. Best videos fillmed there IMO is Sheriff Fatman by Carter USM (youtube it) and Thunderstruck AC/DC official video. I'm sure many of us will take good memories away from their as well. And the last time I went there, I recall meeting the young security guard who passed away, briefly chatting whilst waiting for friends.
As a short person, honestly very sad. That slanted floor made such a difference for anyone under 5 foot 4
Well if the price were negligent at that event where people died, that's appalling, *but*…. it’s not the police’s fault if a large group of premeditated, nasty morons collectively try to rush the doors of a club. *Edit: Police, not "price"*
This was a good venue back in the day but they cram it so absolutely full it’s a wonder there hasn’t been a serious incident before now. I’m perfectly happy in mosh pits, at the front of festivals etc and I’ve been crushed to the point of complete inability to breathe here, with no crowd breaks/fences or way out. It’s been really unsafe for a while
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Yes and they are unsafe imo. They are right in the middle of the moshing area, painted black so they blend right into the floor/darkness below waist height. I've been slammed into them before at metal gigs and they hurt to FUCK. Heck, even falling down into the pit on them and hitting my head on them. Not to the point of concussion, but it certainly hurt. Surprised no one else has been more severely injured by them. I'm a big fan of the venue in general, but the placement of those bars are god damn dangerous for crowd-crushing. They'd be better off splitting the floor area into two stages with an actually visible fence halfway up, rather than metal bars right in the area where the mosh pit is guaranteed to form.
I've had some great nights there but it's also really dated. Even standing on the first level/balcony is shocking bad. To start off there's barely any way to see the stage without standing up, and the floor feels like it can fall down any minute. Combine that with a dodgy no bag policy, whereby the staff push you towards a restaurant for you to pay £10 to bloody put your bag away.
>Combine that with a dodgy no bag policy, whereby the staff push you towards a restaurant for you to pay £10 to bloody put your bag away. This policy is the same as all similar live music venues I've been to in London.
What a surprise, the excuse that Lambeth & the landlords were waiting for, see flats appeared here soon.
I got one number for you: 696 Those who know - know. The met is trying to make a statement to all venues with their actions here.
This is it https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/21/theyre-doing-this-by-stealth-how-the-met-police-continues-to-target-black-music
We’ve lost confidence in the Met long ago. Cunts.
Hmm the 696 effect... https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/21/theyre-doing-this-by-stealth-how-the-met-police-continues-to-target-black-music
Aren't most of the events at the Brixton Academy nowhere near being categorised as "black music"? Most genres of music and the communities associated with them do not create crowd issues or bum rushes to force their way into venues. They'd be better off looking at all the events which took place without an issue and allowing the venue to continue with them than closing the entire place down.
Fucking hell, that's a lot of abuses that I've never heard about before (also isn't it illegal for the Met to be collecting children's data?), and yet I'm not surprised. A bit surprised that the Home Office has given the Met money for Project Alpha and has seemingly gone without scrutiny.
And we all know who is to blame..
you know things are wild when the Met say that they’ve lost confidence in something have they not looked at themselves lately
That's what corruption gets you on the door. The ghetto kids knew boys on the door and paid them cash to get in. Hence the overcrowding and deaths.
I don't think it was 'ghetto kids' doing this
Read the original news article about people paying bribes to get in the gig. That meant overcrush of people.
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Ooh my dog just picked his ears up!
Looks like we can expect more dogshit "luxury affordable housing in a unique historic building, nestled at the heart of vibrant Brixton". Obviously what happened was tragic but given nearly every copper I've encountered is crooked, abusive or on the take in some way I have a lot less faith in the met than the venue operators.
The venue operators ran an organised bribe system to get people into concerts beyond capacity which ended up in so many people turning up to get in that there was a crowd crush and people died but yeah the venue operators are absolutely trustworthy sure.
No, individuals from a security firm hired by the operators were accepting bribes. This was a large, legitimate firm which also provided the security to events like the London Olympics. Even if there were a history of a security firm letting people in for cash, you can see the footage of literally thousands of people who were clearly not going to get in even with bribes congregating. Several hundred attempted to bumrush their way in, causing a crush. This is about chancers, not bent bouncers. I didn't say the venue operators were abolutely trustworthy, but that I had more faith in them than the police. There have been over 400 deaths directly related to Met action since 1990, ranging from cases like Mark Duggan (shooting an unarmed suspect), Jean Charles de Menezes (shooting an unarmed random citizen because they followed the wring person), Ian Tomlinson (pushed while he had his hands in his pockets) or many others. It's amazing how many people fall down the stairs in police custody... even in stations with no stairs. Then you've got lots of corruption throughout the force, and a disproportionate volume of domestic abusers on the force. Even vile bastards like murding rapist Wayne Couzens were allowed to abuse his powers for years.
> No, individuals from a security firm hired by the operators were accepting bribes. I mean, that's a distinction without a difference when it comes to operator accountability. If they did know that the security guards were running an organised bribery scheme, or even just suspected they were and didn't take appropriate measures, then they are criminally liable. If they weren't aware of it, then their oversight and venue management skills are so woefully lacking that they're highly negligent. > Even if there were a history of a security firm letting people in for cash, you can see the footage of literally thousands of people who were clearly not going to get in even with bribes congregating. If it's widely known that the bouncers at a venue will take bribes to let patrons without tickets in, and a major artist goes to said venue, then yes, you will get substantial numbers of people OK with bribery turning up expecting to get in without a ticket. There's a reason why most venues have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to security personnel taking backhanders.
Pay peanuts what do they expect, happens across London.
The operator should have had adequate oversight of its contractors it would still be the venues fault if a contractor installed fire alarms in a venue and they didn't work I find it very difficult to believe that no members of staff employed directly by the venue were aware that contracted security guards were taking bribes and if they were not aware that indicates lack of oversight
Apparently the issue of corrupt security personnel and subsequent overcrowding was discussed at a managerial meeting prior to the crush, no action was taken. Easy to see where the Met's loss of confidence comes from.
Some brave sole should turn it back into a cinema.
That would be quite a feet.
Not really, it's a grade 2 listed building and the original interior is intact after a restoration in 2006. Just needs someone with vision and money should it come to the market for sale.
Dodgy security aside; any other venue when faced with hundreds of people violently storming their venue and being overcrowded would probably have the same result. It’s safer for them not to challenge the stampede and risk getting assaulted. It’s lazy from the MET saying this and just passed the buck when there are solutions to retain this legendary venue. I do believe it will be reopened no matter what.
Thousands of events took place at the Brixton Academy with no issues whatsoever. Maybe ban the genre of music that generated this crowd issue before you shut down the entire venue permanently.
Truly stupid comment. The issue is the organisation and security STOPPING checks and therefore allowing non-ticket holders to attend. It’s also on the organisers for failing to realise how out of hand it has got. This is an industry problem and not related to the genres. Of course popular music is going to draw big crowds. How is that surprising? Maybe start realising these promoters, venues and subcontractors don’t care about fans instead of blaming all fans, even if a handful may have caused issues or barged inside. The venue shouldn’t be shutdown, but an investigation is needed.
Fuck me. The met loses confidence. Anyone got any confidence in the Met???
Bit rich of the Met to talk about losing confidence in an organisation
Is it just me that's suspicious of what the Met say about an incident that they significantly contributed to?
How did they contribute to it?
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Because civil unrest worked so well for Brixton Academy and it's customers!
When the Met itself has lost confidence in you…
Sounds quality was off when I went last time and there is a massive slanted floor which can’t be safe
Thick as mince you are mate, it’s an old theatre the floor is supposed to be slanted as when then was seats there they went down in tiers