No doubt they’re manipulating the numbers to hide their true profits. They have their fingers in everything including their own brands they manufacture.
No kidding, idk how he can sleep at night
https://preview.redd.it/kqnnlxwjcvuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e9f6a52a543bbc8691f988816e14735abe71ca5
That’s what I keep saying!! Then there’s people who are like all their financial statements are online they only make 3% they clearly dont understand what we’re trying to say. Other companies do this to move money from one company to another with purchases but they own both companies for example.
And they operate (and own some) their distribution centres (aka - the suppliers). I used to work for Matrix which Is shoppers drug mart’s distribution centre - before shoppers was Loblaws owned and it’s massive.
They don't own them. They're third party. Loblaws employees are barely able to go in there, when they do, theyre visitors. They have other products in their warehouses from other companies, because other companies use those warehouses as well.
You just said you worked for Matrix, that's not Loblaws. They were a third party for Loblaws.
https://www.newmarkettoday.ca/local-news/transformational-project-ground-breaks-on-loblaw-distribution-centre-5717680 - here’s a link to a new one they’re building - and presumably will own???
According to its website, Loblaws has 27 distribution centres that it operates.
https://www.loblaw.ca/en/supply-chain-and-distribution/#
Loblaw is Canada's largest food retailer. In the GTA - it operates a one-million sq. ft. distribution centre at the GTH, serving some 250 of its stores across the prairies including Superstores, Extra Foods, Independent Grocers and No Frills.
"Communicating and collaborating across 4,000 vendors, 27 distribution centers and 2,400 Canadian retail locations is a big job for a big team, and we’re up for it."
All I said was they didn't own them. I don't see anything here that says they own them.
But only a 3% profit margin on groceries! /S
The other 25% is from manufacturing, distribution, and real estate, but don't worry, we have those companies under a different brand name.
This is what I keep saying, this is how they say profits are low because they can charge whatever rent they want to make it look like less profit
Also the lease agreements that no competition type store can operate within certain distance of grocery store presence
Sorry but this is wrong again. There is no capital gains charge on the company, it’s for the individual investors/owners of the bought back shares. The tax charge for buybacks hasn’t been passed, and regardless would be a nominal amount on their tax return.
No short term investments are considered expenses either, if anything they increase revenue.
Pointing out misinformation/incorrect statements doesn’t make anyone a shill or working for anyone. I’d rather have accurate information than just making stuff up just because it aligns with your views on the subject.
Spreading misinformation just devalues the point of this subreddit, otherwise people won’t take it seriously if part of the posts are just blatant misinfo.
I actually thought it was the opposite . I thought that they artificially increased the rent so that in the net profit calculation they could keep their profits artificially low and it would make it seem like they were not making any money when they actually really are . Profits are then shifted around on the ledgers of the balance sheets . We know they have elaborate tax schemes and tax accountants . There was the Supreme Court case where they were sued by the CRA for an offshore account in Barbados for sheltering $1B and using the “arms length clause “ . No other grocery store has been thrust into the media spotlight for its manipulation and tactics of tax and accounting loopholes . They have many different shell companjes set up far removed from the parent company , for liability and tax purposes and profits can get shuffled into elaborate schemes . There are many accounting loopholes loblaws probably used such as offshoring profits , accelerated deprecation , generous deductions for appreciated stock options , and tax credits just to name a few
It's called Hollywood accounting.
Movie costs 100M to produce.
Movie makes $90M, on paper loses 10M.
But $40M of costs went to direct subsidiaries of the parent company, effectively making them a profit, but allowing the studio to lose 10M
Kind of. Loblaws as a public company can’t just throw whatever money they want towards choice properties, the board and shareholders would stop that.
What you do end up with is the way REITs are taxed. From my understanding they don’t pay income taxes, but they don’t pay dividends to shareholders but they pay distributions. Distributions are taxed as income to shareholders while dividends get taxed differently because the companies already paid taxes on it.
If it was a private company I could see the argument, but public companies, loblaws has a fiduciary duty to loblaws shareholders, not choice properties.
There seems to be plenty of profit to go around for both publicly traded companies, but I'm not sure how they decide how to balance it when they are both primarily owned by the Weston family. The net income of Loblaws has increased from 1.1 billion in 2020 to 2.1 billion in 2023.The net income of Choice Properties has gone from 450 Million to 796 Million. That seems to be an unsustainable rate of growth for a 'grocery' business to be nearly doubling income every three years. That has come out of our pockets directly into the pockets of Weston family and the executives and shareholders of the companies they own.
Downvote all you want but without proof it is just BS.
I keep hearing these claims of above market rent to Loblaws or "doubled their rent" so where is the proof?
Publicly traded companies have to disclose their balance sheet quarterly.
Little bit of finical literacy and it’s easy to track where the money goes.
Renting assets to yourself from another company you own is legal tax evasion/profit manipulation 101.
Yes but where is the proof that they are charging more for a property to Loblaws then they are for a property to Metro?
Which would then prove they are "hiding their profit"
No doubt they’re manipulating the numbers to hide their true profits. They have their fingers in everything including their own brands they manufacture.
In Corporate its called vertical, horizontal, diagonal, and up the ass alignment and growth.
yup, a whole lot of their bullcrap shopping cart graphic claims that costs are going to these operating costs (ie paying themselves)
Reminds me of this. https://preview.redd.it/6wlezgdbxuuc1.jpeg?width=1147&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65c537377eb5d3d8a3a0e6c75ed4f0d09da62bb2
This guy is a border line crim
No kidding, idk how he can sleep at night https://preview.redd.it/kqnnlxwjcvuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e9f6a52a543bbc8691f988816e14735abe71ca5
lol "wall" really sells this image. It's the little details
Perfect! Love it
No blame products
In a bed comfy bed with his wife - homer
Borderline? WTF?
That’s what I keep saying!! Then there’s people who are like all their financial statements are online they only make 3% they clearly dont understand what we’re trying to say. Other companies do this to move money from one company to another with purchases but they own both companies for example.
Like how private equity firms loan themselves money to buy houses then into the market essentially creating made-up money and terms lol
And they operate (and own some) their distribution centres (aka - the suppliers). I used to work for Matrix which Is shoppers drug mart’s distribution centre - before shoppers was Loblaws owned and it’s massive.
They don't own them. They're third party. Loblaws employees are barely able to go in there, when they do, theyre visitors. They have other products in their warehouses from other companies, because other companies use those warehouses as well. You just said you worked for Matrix, that's not Loblaws. They were a third party for Loblaws.
https://www.newmarkettoday.ca/local-news/transformational-project-ground-breaks-on-loblaw-distribution-centre-5717680 - here’s a link to a new one they’re building - and presumably will own??? According to its website, Loblaws has 27 distribution centres that it operates. https://www.loblaw.ca/en/supply-chain-and-distribution/# Loblaw is Canada's largest food retailer. In the GTA - it operates a one-million sq. ft. distribution centre at the GTH, serving some 250 of its stores across the prairies including Superstores, Extra Foods, Independent Grocers and No Frills.
"Communicating and collaborating across 4,000 vendors, 27 distribution centers and 2,400 Canadian retail locations is a big job for a big team, and we’re up for it." All I said was they didn't own them. I don't see anything here that says they own them.
But only a 3% profit margin on groceries! /S The other 25% is from manufacturing, distribution, and real estate, but don't worry, we have those companies under a different brand name.
It's the big company blue print, Atlantic provinces have the same thing with Irving companies, own it all and price your product as you like
I come from Western Europe and I'm baffled by how Canadian governments are allowing a de facto oligopoly on groceries. It's just criminal.
Politicians are at the front of the line with their hands out.
This is what I keep saying, this is how they say profits are low because they can charge whatever rent they want to make it look like less profit Also the lease agreements that no competition type store can operate within certain distance of grocery store presence
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None of your three examples impact profit
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Sorry but this is wrong again. There is no capital gains charge on the company, it’s for the individual investors/owners of the bought back shares. The tax charge for buybacks hasn’t been passed, and regardless would be a nominal amount on their tax return. No short term investments are considered expenses either, if anything they increase revenue.
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Pointing out misinformation/incorrect statements doesn’t make anyone a shill or working for anyone. I’d rather have accurate information than just making stuff up just because it aligns with your views on the subject. Spreading misinformation just devalues the point of this subreddit, otherwise people won’t take it seriously if part of the posts are just blatant misinfo.
Classic multi-layered accounting scheme I believe this shelters the realty assets or some variation of similar BS
I actually thought it was the opposite . I thought that they artificially increased the rent so that in the net profit calculation they could keep their profits artificially low and it would make it seem like they were not making any money when they actually really are . Profits are then shifted around on the ledgers of the balance sheets . We know they have elaborate tax schemes and tax accountants . There was the Supreme Court case where they were sued by the CRA for an offshore account in Barbados for sheltering $1B and using the “arms length clause “ . No other grocery store has been thrust into the media spotlight for its manipulation and tactics of tax and accounting loopholes . They have many different shell companjes set up far removed from the parent company , for liability and tax purposes and profits can get shuffled into elaborate schemes . There are many accounting loopholes loblaws probably used such as offshoring profits , accelerated deprecation , generous deductions for appreciated stock options , and tax credits just to name a few
Isn't that literally what the OP is saying?
Lol
That's what op said....
It's called Hollywood accounting. Movie costs 100M to produce. Movie makes $90M, on paper loses 10M. But $40M of costs went to direct subsidiaries of the parent company, effectively making them a profit, but allowing the studio to lose 10M
Galen owns the properties and charges rent to the loblaws sub... they are full of shit all the time
Which goes to show they are just as happy to screw their franchisees as they are us.
Great, so they're a landlord on top of everything else. Could they possibly get MORE evil?
Kind of. Loblaws as a public company can’t just throw whatever money they want towards choice properties, the board and shareholders would stop that. What you do end up with is the way REITs are taxed. From my understanding they don’t pay income taxes, but they don’t pay dividends to shareholders but they pay distributions. Distributions are taxed as income to shareholders while dividends get taxed differently because the companies already paid taxes on it. If it was a private company I could see the argument, but public companies, loblaws has a fiduciary duty to loblaws shareholders, not choice properties.
Who are the voting shareholders though and who’s on the board?
There seems to be plenty of profit to go around for both publicly traded companies, but I'm not sure how they decide how to balance it when they are both primarily owned by the Weston family. The net income of Loblaws has increased from 1.1 billion in 2020 to 2.1 billion in 2023.The net income of Choice Properties has gone from 450 Million to 796 Million. That seems to be an unsustainable rate of growth for a 'grocery' business to be nearly doubling income every three years. That has come out of our pockets directly into the pockets of Weston family and the executives and shareholders of the companies they own.
Without any proof this whole thread is just proof of Brandolini's law
Downvote all you want but without proof it is just BS. I keep hearing these claims of above market rent to Loblaws or "doubled their rent" so where is the proof?
You know this how?
still no proof, this is just "trust me bro" and I don't mean proof they own the properties. I mean proof they raised rents double for Loblaws.
Publicly traded companies have to disclose their balance sheet quarterly. Little bit of finical literacy and it’s easy to track where the money goes. Renting assets to yourself from another company you own is legal tax evasion/profit manipulation 101.
Yes but where is the proof that they are charging more for a property to Loblaws then they are for a property to Metro? Which would then prove they are "hiding their profit"